 The Executive Director of the U.S. Access Board and welcome to today's interactive program in honor of National Disability Employment Awareness Month. This designation for the month of October serves to recognize the creativity, innovation and skill that people with disabilities bring to our workforce. The objective of the National Disability Employment Awareness Month is to promote awareness of the needs of workers with disabilities and to emphasize the importance of creating economic opportunity for all. We'll be discussing how businesses benefit from the expertise and skills that people with disabilities offer and how a lack of accessibility excludes them from the workforce and hinders economic growth. We'll illustrate examples and discuss best practices related to accessibility standards in transportation, buildings and information and communication technology as well as diverse hiring practices. This will all be within the European context of disability employment and accessibility topics. One way to address these issues is to enable dialogue such as this and to encourage discussion about these topics. Joining me today to share his perspective and answer your questions is Paul Schrader who's the Vice President of Public Policy and Strategic Initiatives at IRA. We're also joined by viewing groups around the world including participants in Romania at the U.S. Embassy in Bucharest. We will introduce their audience in a moment. Before we get started I just want to mention that if you have questions for Paul or myself please ask them in the comments section next to the video player or on Twitter using the hashtag without limits. We'll try to answer as many of your questions as possible and we'll also provide links to resources. So Paul thanks for joining us. Can you tell the viewing audience a little bit about IRA, what it is, how it works and how it's being used in the workplace? Thanks David, happy to do that and very pleased to be part of this program thanks to the State Department for the invitation. So IRA and I hope we get to explore this a little bit more in depth this hour but IRA is a good example of the way technology has changed opportunities for people with disabilities and really fundamentally shifted how we can access information. So the whole point of IRA is to take advantage of mobile technology, cell phone and cell based technology. So we're all carrying these smart phones around with us, most of us anyway. They have cameras in them and the concept of IRA is to use that camera in your cell phone to stream video, to connect via video back to a sighted person. So for someone like me who's blind I've got my phone with me or I might use these glasses that IRA has actually designed, these very stylish sort of sunglasses, with a camera that's right above the nose piece, right in the middle. Concept of that is whether it's the phone or the glass, from that camera video connects back through the cell network to a sighted person who IRA has trained to be an agent and what that agent does is provide any information via the video, whatever they can see they provide that information to somebody who's blind and it might be as simple as what's around us in the environment if we're out in the street, what kind of buildings, what kind of shops, where the office is that we might be going to. When we get into our workplace that IRA agent using again streaming from the video camera in my hand or on my glasses can tell me, can read things, can read signs, can help me find an office that I'm looking for, maybe operate a piece of office equipment that isn't accessible, a copier or a printer that somebody who's blind normally would have to find sighted assistants to help with. Now with the push of a button an IRA agent using that video camera connection can tell us where to touch on the screen to make that office equipment work. And then finally of course helping an individual to get around and even in a meeting where somebody might be using a flip chart or a PowerPoint and not necessarily for a blind person often that means the information is not available. So even in a work setting like that you can have your IRA agent again via the video camera in your glasses or phone tell you what's going on on that PowerPoint or that flip chart and the blind person now has equal access to the information right along with their sighted peers. Thanks for that Paul. I'd like to briefly describe my work and the role of the U.S. Access Board. So the Access Board is the only federal agency whose primary mission is accessibility for people with disabilities. We develop guidelines and standards under a number of laws including the Americans with Disabilities Act so that buildings and facilities, transportation vehicles, information and communication technology, medical diagnostic equipment and telecommunications equipment covered by these laws are accessible to people with disabilities. We also assist the Election Assistance Commission in developing voluntary accessibility guidelines for voting systems and we developed best practices on access to information on prescription drug container labels for individuals who are blind or visually impaired. We provide technical assistance by responding to inquiries through telephone and email and producing manuals and other publications including a series of online guides to the ADA and Architectural Barriers Act accessibility standards. We conduct in-person training sessions and offer 18 webinars a year and we maintain a small research program that develops technical assistance materials and provides information needed for rulemaking. And finally we enforce the Architectural Barriers Act which requires that most buildings designed, constructed, altered or leased by the federal government be accessible to people with disabilities. When we have jurisdiction and find that the applicable accessibility standards were not followed we request a corrective action plan and monitor the case until the barrier is removed. Okay, so now let's let me set the stage for this discussion. From the early initiatives here in the U.S. such as the oldest law, the Architectural Barriers Act in 1968, through the Rehabilitation Act, through the adoption of the Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990 and ongoing legal campaigns across the country, coalitions have come together to press for defending rights and expanding opportunities for people with disabilities. The result has been a visible transformation of public spaces and accommodations and workplaces. Over time, social attitudes have also changed recognizing the ability of persons with disabilities to determine the course of their own lives. So now let's go to our online viewing group at the U.S. Embassy in Bucharest, Romania where Public Affairs Officer, Cultural Affairs Officer Scott Reis will introduce the group and then we'll take a couple of questions from the audience. Hi Scott. How are you doing today? Can you hear me? Hello. Gotcha. Great. So thank you very much. First of all, we're very proud and honored to be selected as an anchor site or European anchor site for this important discussion rather than introduce everyone of the 30-plus people we have here. I just want to say that we were able to get participation from a good cross-section of Romanian society. We have representatives of the government and parliament. We have representatives of NGOs. We have some Fulbright folks here. We also have advocacy group people and probably most importantly some representatives from private industry who are interested in learning more and trying to provide opportunities for those that might not get opportunities elsewhere. So again, thank you very much. Thank you. So we were having some technical difficulties before but I'd now like to welcome another panelist, Charlotte McClain Nalapo, who's the Global Disability Advisor at the World Bank Group, joining us from Rome. So thank you Charlotte for joining us. Thank you David and sorry for the complications. Can you hear me properly? Absolutely. Thank you. Great. And it's wonderful to see such a big crowd. So in terms of my work at the World Bank, as pointed out by David, I am the Global Disability Advisor and my role is to ensure that disability is included as a thematic area into World Bank projects. This also requires us building capacity of bank staff to ensure that bank staff understand what disability inclusion means. A large part of my work is being a connector, connecting persons with disabilities, organizations of persons with disabilities, two bank staff to make sure that the lived experience of persons with disabilities is front and center in any of the work that we do. A very large part of my work is managing trust funds. So managing some of the resources that we have to support disability inclusion in the bank. And then another very big chunk of my work is to continue to develop the economic and the evidence base around disability inclusion. So really trying to have robust analytics around what disability inclusion means in the context of development, what disability means in the context of many of the very complex projects in which we work. So providing technical assistance internally to bank staff, helping bank staff figure out what an accessible project might look like, but also supporting the development of policies around to ensure that those policies are also taking into account persons with disabilities. And then finally, my last role at the bank is to work outside with our different clients and help build partnerships so that we can have a greater group of people to draw on because quite honestly, there's no way that we as an institution can do it on our own. So how do we work with disabled people's organizations? How do we sensitize governments around the importance of disability inclusion is a very important part of my work within the larger context of the World Bank development work. And I think I'll end there, David. Thank you, Charlotte. Scott, does your audience have a question for us? Who has a question? Please. Yes. Please identify yourself. Hello, I'm Gabi Komonescu from the Motivation Foundation of Romania. I'd like to ask the American experts what the main policies are that stimulate employment of persons with disabilities in the U.S., thank you. Did you get the interpretation of that in Washington? Yes. Yes. Thank you. Great. So Paul, do you want to start? Yeah, I'd be happy to kick that off. So we have for certainly even prior to the Americans with Disabilities Act had an emphasis on employment and had begun to build in this concept of reasonable accommodation how to ensure that an individual with disability can participate in the employment setting and of course that was further amplified by the Americans with Disabilities Act and a focus on employment when that passed in 1990. The key, that reasonable accommodation is really one of the key measures that makes employment possible and the concept there is to ensure that somebody with a disability has the tools they need or the adaptations to the workplace that they need. Even those accommodations are not very expensive, often they don't cost anything because in many ways it often is just a change in the way work is done or a change, a modest change in the workplace. For some of us with disabilities, the accommodations may be a little more involved but fortunately as I think we'll explore during this hour, technology has changed a lot of our workplaces and much of what used to be very difficult to accommodate now is actually pretty straightforward in terms of ensuring that somebody can use a computer or a mobile device right alongside their peer without a disability and for example for someone like me who is blind there are a number of accessibility solutions that the major technology companies that provide the operating systems have actually built right into the phones and computers so that I can use the same exact phone or computer that somebody who is sighted as using only I use it with speech output or I might use it with enlarged characters if I have some usable vision. Charlotte? Yeah, so I mean I think much of what I would have said has been said and I think that you know policies that stimulate implementation are absolutely essential but I also think that there are other factors in the United States that have really pushed you know more persons with disabilities into employment and that is that you know perceptions towards persons with disabilities have changed dramatically in the last 25 years. We've also seen a huge a large number of persons with disabilities you know going through university obtaining degrees being able to compete competitively in the labor market and that's all of the function of changing attitudes and I think that that's an important piece. Policies absolutely have a place and more importantly they have a place and then they need to be supported by mechanisms. Laws are really important but laws will not be helpful if they're not enforceable so if there's any thought around developing any kind of legislative framework it has to be something that's enforceable but then it also has to be something that people with disabilities are aware of and so I think one of the triggers around the policies in the United States is was that persons with disabilities themselves got to know about they know what their rights are. We know what is in the law in relation to disability and so that becomes a very important piece in terms of being able to insist that your rights are represented. So I think it's a bit of a two-way piece. You need to make sure that whatever is out there is implementable and that people have knowledge of that law and what it means for them as persons. Excellent points. Let me just add just a little bit to what both Paul and Charlotte said. So our experience in the U.S. goes back at least 45 years to 1973 when Congress passed a law called the Rehabilitation Act and that there was a provision called Section 504 that said that when an entity receives federal funds they can't discriminate against people with disabilities and part of that required reasonable accommodation as Paul talked about. It wasn't until 1990, so many years after the Rehabilitation Act, that Congress expanded those rights beyond the federal government and those that received federal funds to the private sector that have no receipt of federal funds and that was in 1990 with the Americans with Disabilities Act. So our experience in terms of legislation goes back 45 years to the Rehabilitation Act, takes us to 1990 and then the implementation thereafter. So I completely agree with what Charlotte said that laws are important but it's also important to understand what your rights are and obligations and so that's a really important part as well. So Bucharest, do you have another question? Yes, we do. Hello, my name is Chirasella Nicoletta-Predescu. My question is, what are the concrete steps whereby employers are stimulated to hire persons with disabilities? Thank you. Okay, so the question is more about like incentives I think, so Paul? So I think the, I mean there's obviously different ways of doing this, quotas in some instances have been tried and used and goals which is sort of more the approach that I think we take in the United States certainly for some sectors. But I would say the first most important or probably the most important piece is to ensure that people with disabilities have the skills that are necessary to be in the labor force. And honestly I think we're still struggling or making sure in the U.S. and elsewhere that we're doing that. So providing good rehabilitation training and education for individuals with disabilities is key so that they, so that we I should say have the skills to be able to be marketable, to be able to function in the workforce. And then I think making sure that those accommodations, those technologies are in place, some of you may see in my lab I'm holding this Braille device that I use for notes. It's essentially a little computer for notes and files. And so I mean those kinds of devices are critical for people with varying disabilities to be able to participate fully in the labor force. The other thing that I'd like to add is that there are some tax incentives, a tax deduction and a tax credit that businesses can take to make their businesses more accessible. That would also include things like reasonable accommodation. So that's another way to incentivize employment of people with disabilities. Charlotte? Yeah. I mean I think you both raised very important ways to incentivize, you know, business. But I think ultimately I think it's, you know, businesses want to do what's good for business. And I think when we're able to show that hiring people with disabilities, retaining persons with disabilities in your employee is not an onerous task. That if any, that in fact what it does is it enhances, enhances your staff, enhances your product, then I think businesses want to listen. So I think we need to really start thinking about, you know, beyond just the incentives around the financial incentive, you know, really how do we make, how do we push that piece that persons with disabilities are as innovative as other people? There's hard working as many others. And make the business case for why it makes sense to hire persons with disabilities. Thank you. So now let's take some questions from the chat space or those following along on Twitter using the hashtag without limits. Here's one question. How can we change attitudes that prevent persons with disabilities from entering the workforce? What are the best incentives to promote capital investment and accessibility? I think we may have touched on this, but Paul, do you want to add? You touched on using tax incentives and maybe some other means of encouraging fostering development. I would say two things that can help. I mean, attitudes are tough to change. There's no question about it. And I think having strong disability organizations with leaders with disabilities, I mean, you've got three of us here on the panel who have all, in various ways, been part of the organized disability community. I think that's a key element. And then secondly, I think having the investment in physical and technology accessibility so that it's clear that people with disabilities are welcome, able to get to a workplace and then able to use the technology that's there. And there's a lot of steps that can be taken in resources that are available to help you with that. Charlotte? So I think some low-hanging fruit in this regard is to identify some of the businesses that are really doing a good job of it, of hiring persons with disabilities, making them champions, sharing their expertise, having business talk to business. There's nothing better than peer-to-peer conversation. And I think that that's a very useful way of getting people to get past some of the stigma, to get past some of the fear, some of the concerns around cost. So that I've seen to be very useful where we're able to get partnerships or, you know, collaboration amongst businesses and businesses sharing their experiences has proven to be very, very useful. I mean, one of the other ways is to, you know, use government to incentivize capital investment and accessibility. In many countries, and I think in Europe, if you use European funds to promote accessibility, you can, you know, hold government responsible for making sure that buildings and facilities are built accessible if it's done with European funds. So here's another question. I think this one is directed to you, Charlotte. How does the World Bank ensure that aid and support to governments are inclusive to people with disabilities? So that's a great question. And one of the things that the bank has to ensure that our projects are inclusive is called the Environmental Social Framework. And the framework was just released on the 1st of October. There was a very consultative process around developing the framework and part in many of those consultations, disabled people's organizations were well represented and made very strong proposals for what they thought should be in the ESF. So we now have a set of 10 standards that guide World Bank operations. And within those 10 standards, three of them make explicit reference to disability inclusive development. The first one is the standard number one, which is the standard on non-discrimination that looks at risk assessments and analyses. And there is a requirement for people who are doing a risk assessment for a project to think through what non-discrimination would look like for persons with disabilities. So very strong piece in terms of the non-discrimination piece, which is new for the bank and a very important way for us to proceed. The second place where disability is covered is in ESF 4. And that's the ESF that speaks to community safety. And within that standard, the reference to disability is in relation to universal access. And again, this is quite an advancement for the institution. It now will require for any World Bank projects to think about universal access, to think about how to design for persons with disabilities in regular urban setting programs, but also very importantly in post-disaster settings, which is a space in which we work extensively. And then the last place in the framework where there is explicit reference to disability is in ESS 10. Sorry. And ESS 10 is the standard that looks at stakeholder engagement. And in this regard, in relation to stakeholder engagement, the requirement going forward will be that any bank project, any bank operation where there's any form of lending will be required to have a stakeholder engagement. And that stakeholder engagement now will be required to, A, ensure that persons with disabilities are present, and so DPOs will be invited to the stakeholder engagement, but B, that they will also provide accessibility-formatted materials. And this is important. So it's not about just bringing persons with disabilities to the town hall. It's about ensuring that ahead of the event, people know what they're coming for, that materials have been sent. If braille is required, then braille will be available. If sign language interpreters are needed, they will be present. It's about sending the documentation in a way that's accessible to all persons with disabilities. So it's early days for us. As I said, this framework just went live on the 1st of October. But I just recently, I was in Nigeria last week. And while in Nigeria, we had a stakeholder engagement where we did, in fact, bring people with multiple types of disabilities, and we were able to provide all the necessary accessible formats so that they could understand what we were talking about. So I think there are a couple of things that the bank has put in place in terms of a framework to make sure that we address aspects related to disability inclusion. Now, there'll be instances where we have a project and where disability hasn't been included. I mean, this will happen, and that I know for sure. And what we've done to mitigate those type of situations is that we have a redress mechanism. And this is a mechanism in which people with disabilities, organizations or persons with disabilities can file a complaint and say, look, we went to this project and this project is not including persons with disabilities. You know, we'd like to know why, what can be done. And so in many ways, we have to think about this as a two-way street. The bank provides the resources and the technical assistance to your governments. Your governments then will implement the projects either internally or through a project management unit. It's then incumbent on disabled people's organizations to be aware of what these projects are, to see to what extent people with disabilities are being included, and then to hold us accountable. And so this is also a request to you to hold us accountable for what we say we're going to do. That was really interesting to hear about the framework. And I think regardless of whether the World Bank is involved, I think that same principle is really important for any organization. So thank you for sharing that. And I'm going to ask Paul and Charlotte and myself to try to be brief on our responses because I know that there's a lot of questions that we have in queue. So Peter asks, what can be done in countries when people with disabilities are not granted a right to work or do business? And I will just bring up one example years ago and continuing to this day, disability advocacy organizations will ask elected officials and people running for office what their ideas are for including people with disabilities or for promoting the rights of people with disabilities. And then when they get elected, to hold them to their answers that they've given. So that's one way is to work with your elected officials and those running for office to put them on the spot and then hold them to their answers. Paul or Charlotte? I would just add that culturally we're still fighting this fight, right? Where sometimes the automatic response to somebody with a disability is to protect and shelter and not to have out in the world. I mean, what Peter brings up an explicit situation where there's actual preventing. But I think culturally there is still that sense. And I think that makes it harder, but also more critical for those of us with disabilities to organize and to send forth a message that we are leaders, we are people who want to be engaged at every level and not just at leadership, but really at all levels of work and society. Charlotte? Yeah, no, I mean, I think where there's prevention then I would say, you know, I would really revert to the convention on the rights of persons with disabilities. I would look at domestic legislation to see, you know, where there's been an infringement because I think that that would to me suggest a clear case of non-discrimination. So I think I would advise looking at the legal route. Okay. Here's another online question. How can people promote accessibility and inclusion for persons with disabilities in their everyday lives? It's kind of a general question. Paul, do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think, well, I certainly think for those of us with disabilities, it's important to use and make use of the technologies and accessibility efforts that have been made. So where physical spaces have been made accessible, I think it's incumbent and important for those of us with disabilities to get out and use those spaces. And the same is true for technology. Charlotte talked earlier about accessible formats and information. And sometimes I say to my blind friends and colleagues, you should always ask, even if you don't necessarily need to have the information in Braille or in a technology form that you can use with speech or character, large character, I think it's just important to ask and to make clear that there's an expectation that information be made accessible or that a space be made physically accessible for those of us with disabilities. And then when that happens, to both salute that it happens, but also to take advantage of it. I mean, we have a policy at our agency that all of our meetings be held in accessible locations and all of our meetings be conducted in an accessible fashion in terms of real-time cart, computer-assisted real-time transcription, sign language interpreters and materials being in accessible formats. Charlotte? So I think you both raised really important points. I would only add that I think that I use a wheelchair and very often people don't know what accommodations are required. They think maybe a ramp, but they don't really know what else. And so I like to be able to be in a position to give people information. I think very often people don't know what kind of accommodations are required for persons with disabilities. And so again, I think we have a responsibility not to just say, oh, you haven't made it accessible, but to help people think through what accessibility can look like. So being part of the solution, I think is a really important part of moving this agenda forward. Okay, so thanks for sending in these great questions. Before we go back to our group in Romania, I wanted to ask Charlotte and Paul if they could briefly provide some examples of accessibility features and standards and transportation buildings or information and communication technology that they think has helped reduce barriers to employment here in the US and could be adopted more widely in Europe. Paul, any examples that you would like to cite? Yeah, one that I like starting with is because it says a really great story on a lot of levels and that's the work of the Worldwide Web Consortium and the Web Accessibility Initiative. That group, and it's a voluntary effort between government and industry and disability organizations, that group has created the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines. Those guidelines, not only do they set forth how to make a web page and a website accessible, but they really also fundamentally show how to use technology in an innovative way to access web and related material. And so whether it's employment, education, or living independently and getting the information you need for your daily life, the web of course is critical, but also all of the things that the web has made possible, all of the social network capabilities that the web has made possible, all of those are touched by these guidelines and informed by these guidelines. So for those who are watching and listening to us, if you've never taken a look at or if you've wondered about web accessibility and sort of that broader topic, that's a great place to start the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines available from the Web Accessibility Initiative. Charlotte? So I don't know, you probably can't see because you're just seeing my head, but I actually use a wheelchair and so for me, the accessibility features that I look to and look for are related to accessibility in the built environment. And so I think in terms of big pushes, I think the work that David in the US Access Board do has been absolutely instructive and they set the standards as David set out in the beginning, but you can go to the Access Board and ask for information about what standards, what access should look like in the context of any kind of built environment. And that's been immensely useful from a personal point of view, but also in terms of the work that I do. So I think for me, it's about the built environment. But I think it's also about ensuring that when you think about accessibility, you think about seamless pathways because it's one thing to have a ramp into my building where I work, so I work at the World Bank and it's pretty accessible to get in and out of the building, but it's another thing to be able to get to work. And so having an accessible transportation system, I can leave my apartment, I can roll down the street, I can get on a bus, if I don't wanna get on a bus, I can take the metro. So there are options for me to take and it makes me part of that community of workers. I travel with people to work. I feel as if I'm part of a larger workforce. And so I think when we think about accessibility and inclusion, we shouldn't think about just one particular point in time, but how this works seamlessly so that we are in fact out and in the community. Great points from both of you. I just wanted to give one example of I think a success in the United States. And that goes back to having a law in place and clear standards and just think of this one example. So before the Americans with Disabilities Act, about 60%, 60% of buses in America were accessible to people with disabilities. They either had a lift or a ramp. After the ADA today, 100% of buses in America are accessible. And that's because we said when you buy a new vehicle, it has to be accessible. And the ADA was passed in 1990 and buses last about 12 to 14 years. And so we've had a cycle of at least two turnovers of buses and now 100% of our vehicles in America are accessible. And I point back to the law that requires that. So you have a clear law and clear standards and enforcement of that. I think those are really important. And that's I think a great example of how a law and regulations can make a difference. So now let's go back to our viewing group in Romania. Bucharest, do you have maybe two more questions for the panel? Over here on this side. Okay. Good afternoon, I'm Dagela Hout. I'm president of the National Council of Disabilities and Disabled People in Romania. We have talked a lot here about technology, about medical devices and instruments. I would like to know the following. How can these technology and these devices be purchased? What is the support granted by the government devices and technologies? Okay. Paul, do you wanna? So in the US, I think we alluded to this earlier, there is a provision that government purchase of technology drive accessibility. So this doesn't directly answer your question, but I wanted to mention it. So there is a law that requires when our government makes a purchase of technology for use in the government space, that they make an effort to ensure that that's accessible technology. There are some programs that do provide technology for individuals with disabilities, but I will say honestly, I think that's one of our weaknesses, and I think it's actually a place where many of the European governments may in fact be ahead of us in ensuring that technology gets into the hands of individuals with disabilities. I showed earlier this device with the Braille display and it's a very important device in my life. It's also a fairly expensive device, and so these devices can cost into the thousands of dollars in US dollars. And so having programs to make, to put technology in individuals' hands are so important because otherwise these transformative technologies may not be available to an individual. Now that said, I would come back to applauding many of our commercial technology developers who have built in and designed in accessibility. So the Windows operating system has accessibility built in for people with not only blindness and vision loss, but people with physical disabilities as well in terms of help with the keyboard usage. And the same is true for Android and the iOS system used by Apple. There are accessibility components built in. So that has helped to certainly broaden the availability of accessible technology for individuals with disabilities. I'll just add a brief example of a way that the federal government helps employees who are federal employees with disabilities to do their job. There's a central place within the federal government that will provide reasonable accommodations, mostly involving technology to federal employees with disabilities to do their job so that the cost is borne by the central group and not by the hiring official or the agency that's hiring the person. It's easily done at the federal level. It's much harder done at private level in state and local governments. But that's a model that could be considered at least to help people that are working in the federal sphere. Charlotte, did you have anything to add to that? Just a quick example of what the World Bank does. So the World Bank has what's called the Disability Accommodation Fund. And quite like David mentioned, what it does is it supports staff, backstaff with disabilities so that their reasonable accommodations are taken care of in terms of the cost. So for instance, I have a desk that's a bit higher so that I can roll under my desk without it pressing against my legs. And that was, you know, the cost of my desk was borne by the Central Disability Accommodations Fund. That fund would also cover a personal assistant if I needed a personal assistant to travel with. And so, yes, there is an institution, within, sorry, within the institution, there is support to ensure that persons with disabilities can work to their fullest potential. We cover, you know, sign language interpreters. A whole host of different accommodations would be covered by the Accommodations Fund. Great. Bucharest, do you have another question? Thank you very much. My name is Georgiana Pasco. I work with the Legal Resources Center. I have returned from the United States three months ago, so I was able to learn what accessibility means in the United States and the access to work for disabled people. I must admit, and be honest, that it's very difficult for me to readjust to the Romanian system. I'm listening carefully to you there in Washington. And my question, I don't know how to ask this, to ask that question, I don't know how to put it. What would you do if you come to Bucharest tomorrow? We have 35,000 disabled people in our institutions. You know, people who come to certain positions when they are in those positions, they disregard the disabled people. So I have studied the American model, the World Bank model. It would be fantastic if the World Bank office in Romania was able to disseminate that model. What would you tell us, at least those present in this room? What would you tell us? Thank you. I have seen the situation in the United States. I've seen disabled people put themselves in chains 30 years ago in order to have access to public transportation, for instance. Excellent. Charlotte, do you wanna start? Well, so I mean, I think we, the bank doesn't tell governments what to do. The bank works with governments, we provide technical assistance to governments. I mean, I think what we would tell government, if we were working on a project in Romania would be, how do we include persons with disabilities in a meaningful way? And I think that that's an important piece to emphasize. It's not just about including people with disabilities, but it's doing so in a way that's very meaningful. I think we would also mention that there is the convention on the rights of persons with disabilities and it puts in place a legal framework to which Romania is part of. And so there's a responsibility on the government to think about how to implement that. I'll just add that advocacy takes time. We just last month celebrated the 50th anniversary of the oldest law called the Architectural Barriers Act that applies to federal buildings. And so we have at least a 50 year experience of trying to promote the rights of people with disabilities. And it's a long haul, it takes time, and advocacy is a constant effort. Paul, do you wanna add anything? I just would add that most of, if not all of the advances that have been made around accessibility in the US were led by or substantially pushed by organizations representing the interests of and run by people with disabilities. It's a really critical piece of the puzzle and I can't speak to what the situation is in Romania, but I can certainly say that organizing and getting people with disabilities to organize is so critical and it takes time. It is, you know, that is a hard bit to do, but that also is the best way to disseminate education and to help individuals learn how to take leadership and assume responsibility for actions and learn about the kinds of changes that will be most meaningful in the lives of those of us with disabilities. Thank you Bucharest for those great questions. And we have some more good questions from our online viewers. So Rotaro at the American Corner in Romania asks, the Minister of Finances in Romania has said that the workforce deficit in Romania is estimated at one million people and 300,000 work eligible people with disabilities are able to fill this void. How can programs help local legislation, infrastructure and companies support this idea? Charlotte, do you have any thoughts on that? I'm not sure that I get the question. Could you repeat that please? So there's a deficit of a million people in the workforce in Romania and there's 300,000 work eligible people with disabilities who could help fill that million person void and how can programs be established to help people with disabilities become employed to help meet this unmet need of employment in Romania. Great, okay. So I mean, I think one of the things to do is to make sure that any kind of training that happens for persons with disabilities is market related. I've seen in too many countries that skills training and development projects for persons with disabilities often are training people to do things that nobody else is training anybody to do anymore. So I think looking at training people so that their skills are relevant is very, very important. And if the 300,000 disabled people can be trained to address that deficit then I think that would be a win-win solution. Paul? I just add partnership also is so important and especially where you've got functioning organizations representing people with disabilities partnering with business. There's a wonderful group in the US called disability in and the idea is that disability in business come together to work together on how to advance employment and marketing and even business ownership among people with disabilities. So here's another online question. Fania asks, most people with disabilities in my country do not have access to education and most people with disabilities are not educated. How can we improve accessibility to education for persons with disabilities? Boy, that's a tough one. Charlotte, do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I do. I'm having just run a workshop, a three-day workshop on inclusive education. I mean, I think we definitely need to have again, strong legislative and strong legislative and policy framework. I think that's a very good start. Increasingly, we're seeing reference to education and disability in constitution. So where there are constitutions, that's very helpful. But then again, I think it's really about looking at training teachers differently so that teachers can think about how to teach children with disabilities. It's very important to work with parents to ensure that they understand the importance of taking their kids with disabilities to school. It's really essential to look at the curricula and make sure that the curricula addresses range of disabilities. It's important for us to think about developing independent learning plans for children. So there are a whole host of things that can happen. And in Europe, there are some really good examples. So in Portugal and in Italy, there has been a lot of inclusive education, but it starts from the beginning. It starts from when kids go to kindergarten. And so there's a progressive process of including children throughout the school system. So yeah, I mean, I think for education, there are a whole host of different pieces that need to come together, but having a strong policy framework and laws that are infosable around education for all is very important. Excellent, thank you, Charlotte. Now let's go back to our viewing group in Romania. Bucharest, do you have a final question? Hello, I am Adriana Svetoyou. I am a deputy, a member of Romanian Parliament. I'd like to congratulate you for your initiative. It is wonderful that we can have this dialogue. The good news is that Romania has good laws for persons with disabilities. Of course, they can be improved, but the bad news is that Romania is now in 1973. So yes, we do have the laws. Problem is, however, compliance. I have to sadly say that in the Chamber of Deputies, a person with motor disabilities has a ramp. In the Senate, they cannot get in because there is no ramp. Now, when the Romanian Parliament has a problem like this, I'm afraid that the whole thing goes very far and wide. My question is, what are the penalties? What does your law say will happen to even state institutions that do not comply with the requirements of the law? And a very specific question insofar as you know about it, of course, what is the status of sign language in the US? Persons with hearing disabilities, can they receive that? Does this have a special status? Is there an obligation to provide such interpreters if such an individual has any dealings with an institution? Thank you. Okay, I'll take the first part of the question in terms of enforcement. And I'll just talk specifically about the Americans with Disabilities Act. The ADA is enforced primarily through complaints and lawsuits. There are a few agencies that enforce the ADA. So Charlotte said before, you need to have a law and an enforcement scheme associated with it. I completely agree with that. DOJ enforces the Americans with Disabilities Act along with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission for Employment and the Department of Transportation for Transportation. So there are multiple agencies that have enforcement responsibilities. Individuals can, in terms of accessibility, can get what's called injunctive relief, which means fix the problem. So if they file a complaint and the complaint is investigated and it can be resolved, the resolution would be to fix whatever the accessibility barrier is. The Department of Justice can also apply civil penalties under the law. It's a fairly aggressive enforcement scheme, but there aren't like ADA police out there. It's really incumbent upon individuals to enforce their own rights. To Paul or Charlotte, do you wanna tackle the sign language interpreter part? Well, I would just say that that's still an area that we're working toward. I mean, there are requirements for sign language interpreters in a variety of environments. And it's now very common in government meetings, of course, for there to be interpreters where needed and increasingly common in business conference meetings, though certainly there's still a long way to go. And the same is true for individuals who are blind in ensuring that there's inclusion of individuals for information that is provided. And Charlotte spoke to that a little bit earlier too. Yeah, I mean, I would just add to that, that, you know, American Sign Language is, I mean, it's an official language in the sense that you, as mentioned, you can request to have sign language, you know, if you go to a government office. So that's a very important piece. But I think in addition to, you know, the provision of sign language interpreters, there's also been an investment in further developing sign language, American sign language. And that's an important piece of language, developing it, teaching it. And so, you know, we live in Washington DC and in Washington DC, we house Gallaudet, which is the Apex Sign Language University for the Deaf, where there's a big emphasis on learning, you know, teaching and learning sign language, American Sign Language, and using it as a linguistic language, which is very important, and that it can develop and be more impactful. I'll just add one more thing, since Charlotte brought up Gallaudet. So right near Gallaudet University, a new Starbucks just opened, and the Starbucks is staffed by employees who use sign language. And that's how they interact with the customers. So that was a pretty creative way to kind of promote inclusion. So Bucharest, we have time for one more question for the panel. Thank you very much, Chantry, privileged to be here. I'd like to tell you my personal opinion. I'm Gurga Shtirano. I'm with the Council for the Monitoring of the Implementation of the Convention. This discussion is very useful. However, and unfortunately, we're in a vicious circle here. I'm saying this for the following reason. On the one hand, we have accessibility, yes, which is complied with from a legal point of view. We have it in the Convention in Article 9. We have it in a domestic law too. We have it in a government order of 2013. We do not have implementation of the stipulations. We are, like the Deputy said in 1973. On the other hand, the jobs. To get jobs, we need education. We've been fighting for years to have a list of availability in the national education system at all levels. We never got any results. We never got any response. Without a strong education basis, we cannot get jobs for the disabled. I'm saying this because in the various entities right now, there is no person with disabilities that would have taken a position that was subject to a competitive examination. Moreover, another law, 263 specifies, or at least did specify that persons with disabilities, serious disabilities cannot work, which is a constitutional violation to begin with. On the other hand, companies that have at least 50 employees are under an obligation to hire at least two persons with disabilities. On the other hand, and this is where the hypocrisy intervenes, they can pay a sort of compensation to the government in the amount of one minimum salary per economy. Could you please tell me how many persons with disabilities work with a World Bank at present? Charlotte, I will let you go first then. I guess that was direct to me. So actually, we don't know for a fact. And the reason we don't know is because the bank does not ask staff to disclose their disability unless they do so because they want to. So if there's self-identification for the disability, then we know that we have staff with disabilities. But there isn't a figure per se. There's a team that's working on looking at how we could better get data around how many people within the bank have a disability. And that's in part because I was CEO, Kristalina Villogueva, was in London at the Disability Summit over the summer that was hosted by the UK government. And she made a commitment that the World Bank would increase staff of persons with disabilities. But in order for us to say and to monitor how we've increased, we need to know how many people we have. So we're currently working on precisely that issue. So hopefully the next time we talk, I'll have some numbers to share with you. I think the other thing that I'd like to say is just that you need to hold government officials. Accountable. And if your elected officials are not doing their job or not promoting their rights of people with disabilities, then that's where advocacy comes in to play and hold people responsible who are both elected and appointed to various positions. Because we say in America the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And sometimes you just have to keep speaking up in order to make change. And it's sometimes a long process. Thank you, Bucharest, for those great questions. It looks like we're almost out of time. And I'd like to ask the panelists if they'd like to share any final thoughts, Paul. Yeah, I just want to say that coming back to technology, we can really take much more control of our world than we ever have been able to in the past. So mobile and wearable technology, the kind of work that IRA is doing to enable people who are blind to use this technology to get access to visual information, it's an amazingly customizable and flexible technology. So I would strongly encourage people to get much more comfortable in knowing what's available to them in the mobile tech space. And then lastly, it may sound a little obvious, but I think it's important for us to close with remembering that we really do need to value people with disabilities and the contributions and believe in the potential of individuals with disabilities to make a contribution at all levels to our society. Charlotte? Yeah, so I mean, I think for me, just to add on, I would say that, you know, ensuring that people with disabilities and DPOs participate in any kind of development discussions around the sustainable development goals, I think having voice, continuously having voice, being able to express and to share our experiences, our lived experiences as persons with disabilities, but also sharing solutions of how things might be better because people often don't know is very important. And then I think as indicated by my two colleagues, holding those in power accountable. And here it's not, you know, it's holding your government accountable, but it's also holding institutions like the World Bank accountable. So it's a heavy load for persons with disabilities in many ways, but it's very important because if we don't speak out, nobody speaks out on our behalf. Well said. So I wanna thank Paul and Charlotte for contributing their expertise and insights to this important conversation. And a special thanks to the audiences and organizers in Romania at the US Embassy in Bucharest. And thanks to all of you and all of our online viewers, including those watching with viewing groups across the world at the Embassy in Belgrade, Pristina, the American Chamber of Commerce in Kosovo, the Embassy in Minsk, Belarus, and the American Center in Moscow, Russia. We hope this conversation will continue and the Department of State is committed to facilitating dialogue on this and other disability rights issues. Please don't hesitate to reach out to us and our colleagues at our diplomatic missions to share ideas and suggestions of additional steps we might take. Thank you for participating today and keep the dialogue going. Goodbye.