 You're welcome back to the breakfast and plus TV Africa will begin our first major conversation on the Twitter ban by the presidency. The House of Representatives have summoned Lai Mohammed to answer about the Twitter ban and we've invited Mr. Emiri Agunwa this morning to discuss this with us. Good morning, Ms. Agunwa. Good morning. All right. When the news broke yesterday that Lai Mohammed has been summoned to answer why Twitter suspension or the Twitter ban, what did it strike you as? It is a step in the right direction because that's what the legislative House should have done before now, okay? And it's a step in the right direction. It's also understood from the outcome of the meeting, they have given 10 days to set up an investigation panel to look at the reason for the ban. And Mr. Lai Mohammed should be back in 10 days to speak with the committee from information, culture and co, okay? So I think it's a step in the right direction. It's also something that the whole country will be watching out for to see if the outcome will be of desired expectation. All right. You just mentioned they set up an investigative panel and it's pretty much the same thing that happens with numerous other issues in Nigeria. We set up a panel, we set up a committee and then another committee to look at the findings of the previous committee. Is there anything that needs to be investigated with this whole issue? Sure, sure. I know that basically we, the whole country is asking for freedom of speed and freedom of expression and that is a legitimate demand, okay? And but also we need to understand, give everybody a fair hearing, that's what democracy is all about, okay? If the federal minister for information thinks that he has a claim, a reason why he should publicly, with executive order, declare that Twitter should be banned, let's hear him out. And if he comes out and the reason is not content and not sufficient, then the ban is lifted and may be a vote of no confidence, because it can be cast on his leadership, okay? So I think it's something we must appreciate that democracy is not only about, is about hiring both parties and also listening to intelligent and constructive reasoning as regards to anything that happens. But first of all, the conversation should have been, lift the ban until the investigation is over, okay? You can put a ban in place and expect us to give time for investigation. So all we're trying to say is even if you want to take forever, like the Nigerian thing is committees upon committees of necessity, you shouldn't put people's life on hold, you shouldn't limit freedom of expression. And what if next week we find out that he was wrong? Okay, who pays for the losses of this past two weeks? Who does that? Who would do that? Who's gonna be held responsible or accountable for the losses? Okay, so what happened yesterday is a step in the right direction, but I expected that the ban should be lifted with immediate effects while pending the outcome of the investigation. Really, you first told my next question really to ask you with all the facts that we've seen, all the analysis to say the so-and-so billionaire has been lost due to the shutdown of business via Twitter. Who really is going to pay for that? Which government agency would be held responsible with the attorney general of the Federation say something? Would they just issue an apology, if any? I mean, what really is going to be any compensation for Nigerians who have lost lots on Twitter? And yeah, I don't know about how obviously this country is not that accountable to first respect compensation, but I also expect the executive governor of Lagos State to speak up right now because we know statistically the bulk of the funds that we've lost from Twitter, about 70% of them basically is Lagos income. It's for the people in Lagos State and that's directly hits the profit and the income of the people under his stewardship. And this is something that I'm expecting the executive governor of Lagos States to have a conversation about. You are ruining my economy with this ban. It might not affect the people in the other parts of the country that might not be totally dependent economically and commerce-wise on Twitter, like it's impacting Lagos State. Some presidents might also think this also hits Lagos State economically in a bad place. So there are a lot of interesting parties that should start speaking out because the conversation is beyond what we are having right now. It's going to put the country into a lot more downward spiral as regards the economy. And some persons are going to take the front of it and I expect those ones to speak out, seeing that this government does not look like it can ever write a check of $10 million or $20 million to compensate for the losses. Well, let's go back also to yesterday and the walking out of the plenary by some PDP lawmakers. They also of course addressed the press later in the day saying their stance and of course saying that they will continue tweeting. So quickly let's get your reactions to that also. It's a normal occurrence whenever you're dealing with democracy. People have every right to be angry and walk out. Okay, this is not an authoritarian government. We have every right to walk out. There's nobody that can not stamp my feet and say, no, I'm not comfortable with the outcome of this. And that is the whole thing we're talking about because the idea is not to pretend like everything is fine. Like I say, it's the majority of individuals are not happy that someone should, the people that we are elected in government should be able to speak out. And I expect once again, because we're looking for an idealistic expression for this, I expect people in house, I expect House of Assembly of every state to be busy right now, making their opinions heard and having a stand as a unit. I also expect people who that are representing us in federal House of Reps and Senate houses to get the feelings of their people and escalate it to the Senate House. This thing shouldn't be an APC PDP thing. This conversation shouldn't be a party conversation. This is people, this is a people conversation. And my people happy with the feedback. And what's the best way to do it? Stepping out on the stamp and the feed by PDP shouldn't just be a PDP conversation. I spread a lot of APC senators and representative House of Representatives to also say, we are totally not comfortable with the way things are going. Okay, so it's not a party thing, although PDP has taken a bold step to speak out. I also expect some party loyalists and faithfuls in APC to also say, this is about the people and it's going to affect us drastically if we do not speak out. Let's not make this a party thing. Let's make it a people conversation. So we know that politicians in Nigeria are notorious for basically ignoring someone's like this, you know, central bank governor, many politicians, you know, they even when they fail to show up, they issue another query asking them why they didn't show up and holding them to show up and they fail to show up. So this is like a cycle here in this part of the world, the disrespect, you know, to our lawmakers, the House of Reps. So if this same scenario plays out here, what really is our hope of getting answers as to why the government issued this ban or suspension of Twitter? The truth is that we all know why this whole thing happened. So the truth is that the lawmakers also have proven themselves to be people that can keep their words and also put their leg on the ground. Okay. And when people know that your, your, your is empty backing these two words that you have, they can easily override your, your decision. But what we're trying to say is we are looking at this, but can the if the lawmakers decide that a senator is not doing his job very well, and they pass a vote of no confidence and make a demand that he leaves office within 24 hours and ensure that it happens until they do that. Then this whole thing is also like it's already never going to get anything significant out of it. But once again, so far we are trying to push it means that we know that's the right channel for it to happen. So what's the outcome? If it doesn't happen, everybody will say that we will fall back to what we always do in this country, which is what's leading us towards a failed state. When things do not happen, we always let it slide. Okay. And if when we let it slide, it gets further, it is a race further. Okay. So I hope that we will understand that this is one of the fundamental human rights. This is beyond interest of tribe and the religion and location. This is for everybody. And for the first time, I expect the lawmakers to put their feet on the ground because what it means is that they too will stop tweeting too. Okay. And when they stop tweeting, it affects everybody. I mean, we have looked at a 206 million man economy going down to the Tata's because of because if this never happens, the treatise can happen to every other media house and every other microblogging site. And suddenly, I don't want us to see a special where we can lose our opinions anymore. Okay. And so I think everybody's going to speak out on this, saying that this is not a case of divide. It's going to affect their children, their children are going to hit on them at home. Why did you allow this to happen? This is not just the rich and the poor. This is not just a Christian and the Muslim. So they're not going to the southerners. This is beyond that. This is a positive comparison. I think. So what is what is the likelihood? I'm sure you remember also not very long ago, we shared clips. And of course they went viral also on Twitter of a certain Senator berating another and asking him if he was a member of the opposition because he was simply speaking, of course, for against the challenges people were facing. What's the danger of having a national assembly whose members would think of their political affiliations first before they think of the voices of the people that they represent? And does it look from what you're seeing today that the national assembly, as it is currently constituted, will be able to take a stance for the people and not for their political leanings? So everybody can, if you're a party member, there must be significant level of loyalty towards party line. Okay. That's party ideology and culture. But when you understand that people, a set of persons, voted you into power and you represent them, they are constituting to you. The constituencies that put you in the power that you are in charge of, and you are going to go back and answer to them. You must speak for them. So one of the things that is happening is that we don't have a lot of of this law makers put in by the people. Okay. They didn't come to tell us, they didn't come to get what our issues are and our grievances. So what are they escalating really? Okay. So they are basically projecting one angle, which is what they have, the parties that put them into power. But if the parties and the people put them into power, they must have what they want to balance in representing both ideologies on both sides. So the thing is that we all know that both of these law makers were not the people's choice and the people did not put them out there. So they don't have any responsibility towards the people whatsoever. Okay. However, the way forward is when you understand that by the end of the day, the situation is getting worse and worse, that you can't defend the political party as against the people. You're going to deal with the people on the road. Look at what we saw with same clips of the French president being slapped by the citizenry. We've seen a lot of persons in different countries being attacked. Okay. When people are not happy, you are not safe. Okay. You can't always hide in the party lines. You are going to face people and these are the ones that elected you. So we need to start speaking out for the people. We need to advise the the law makers to present the people to start speaking out because the laws are actually for the people and not to defend the party lines. And we know that Nigeria is a working progress, not something that would be automatic. That will suddenly we wake up and everybody has people interest. But I think we need to start making, taking the baby steps now, gradually and hopefully and see before the next two years, maybe we can have maybe 30% 30% people interest and that would be significant in the approach. Right now, I think is about 99% to 1%. People interest is 1% and 9% is party interest. Okay. So as it stands, you know, we know that the AGF, Attorney General of the Federation, have overcome, I mean, have said that anyone caught using Twitter would be prosecuted and that that's when they will know what laws they're breaking. But Nigerians are finding ways around this using VPN. But when Malamisha, the screenshot yesterday, Nigerians actually discovered that he was using VPN as well to access Twitter. What does that say about someone who vowed to enforce the Twitter ban threatened to arrest people who use Twitter was found to be using Twitter using VPNs. But first of all, I don't think there's any legal ground for to prosecute anybody for using Twitter. Twitter is an independent app. It's just like somebody banned putting a ban if I use the passport type of electronics in my house. Okay. And I don't think that makes sense because it has to be passed into law for there to be a basis for prosecution. We can just keep prosecuting people based on opinions of executive. So if it doesn't happen, if not, that becomes a dictatorship. And I don't think even the president said that he's just a general federation. I don't think he has a capacity to say that as a person. But on the other hand, that will show you that the dependency on all this stuff, you can't just say you can't, everybody is dependent on Twitter, social platforms. And even though you are, you are you are making a case that it should be banned, you know, he knows that life without Twitter is basically unthinkable right now. Okay. So he has to find a way and that's this thing we are talking about. If you find a way around it, that means instead of going to put up a law, why not come out to have a dialogue? Okay, why not come to have a dialogue? I mean, we are all understanding when it comes to technology. We need to start appreciating that the dependency on Twitter for news and information is for everyone. And if you can go through the route of VPN and meaning that we are not sincere to ourselves, don't make a law that you can't stand by. Don't declare it fast when you are hungry because I mean, don't do stuff like this. Okay. And if you know we stated, why not have a conversation dialogue? Why not race down home meetings? How do we control this talk? How do we save this? How do we say that? Instead of putting up a law and you know that we don't have the capacity to do that. And now what Nigerians are saying is a level of hypocrisy in leadership. And whatever people say that there's hypocrisy in leadership, leadership can never be trusted. It's as simple as that. If you say one thing and you do another, then the people you are meeting will not trust you. And right now is one of the things happening. And I'm sure that certain level of these words have lost weight within the past 24 hours, because we know that you are a man that don't leave according to what you say. And then we are watching us as a people to know how many more other things that you say that you do, that you don't abide by. All right, Mr. Miri Agunwa, public affairs analyst. We thank you for joining us on the breakfast this morning. Thank you very much. All right. So our next conversation still with the National Assembly. Stay with us for that.