 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. We have with us Professor Anu Muhammad who has been Professor of Economics at Janganagar University for over two decades. Thank you very much for sparing your time and coming here to NewsClick. Thank you for inviting me. My first question to you is about the project that you are here in Delhi for, the National Committee to Protect Oil, Gas, Mineral Resources, Power and Ports. Could you tell us what exactly are the schemes that you are looking for and what exactly are you trying to achieve with this? The National Committee is a new form of alliance in Bangladesh. It was established in 1998. This is sort of left party plus alliance because there are some left parties within the National Committee. They have their differences on different issues but on certain issues on natural resources, environment and national ownership, people's ownership, people's we have come to a unity united alliance. It started work in 1998 on the issue of a deal on natural gas with a US company and their project and after it was a big blow out in a gas field and the US company was trying to escape and then it was just it started to mobilize people. So, it is a new type of activities grown up with this and we had few success like stop gas export of gas, stop many bad deals government had to cancel including open pit mine in northern Bangladesh and recently we are in a movement that is getting huge public support that is on Sundarbans to save Sundarbans because there is a largest mangrove forest and this Sundarbans is like natural protection system for Bangladesh and about 50 million people in the coastal region from Bangladesh and India they depend on Sundarbans. So, that is our latest campaign. The Sundarbans has been a site of contention now after the Rampal project was announced. So, could you tell us the ramifications that you can foresee with that project in Sundarbans? Sundarbans when we came to know about this project in 2010. In 2010, we came to know that there is a government initiative to establish a coal fired power plant very near to Sundarbans and it is 1320 megawatt power plant. The main partner is NTPC of India National Thermal Power Corporation and PDB of Bangladesh. There is a joint effort Bangladesh India and a company was formed Bangladesh India Friendship Company and they started evicting people from there even before environmental impact assessment and it was very secret activities. But after we came to know from the local people we are trying to save themselves. They formed land protection committee and from them they contacted us and then we visited the place and found that many irregularities are there. Then we started investigating the what coal fired power plant can affect, how that can affect and what the Sundarbans, the whole special ecosystem, what are the dangers for Sundarbans and how it will affect the total ecosystem, its diversity, biodiversity and also ultimately the people. So, we started investigating and in 2011 we came to the conclusion that we must resist this plant because Sundarbans is in many ways important for both the countries. This is a coastal, this is a world heritage site, this is the largest mangrove forest and this in the coastal region it is divided between India and Bangladesh. It is a 60% in Bangladesh and 40% in India, West Bengal. So, in West Bengal about 5 million people dependent on Sundarbans for their livelihood. In Bangladesh part about 4 million people directly dependent on Sundarbans and about 50 million people from both the countries, 50 million people dependent for their lives from the natural disaster, threat of national disaster. They rely on completely on Sundarbans, Sundarbans saves them. So, in the coastal area and for the total ecosystem of these coastal region this is obviously very important to save Sundarbans. It was already affected by Farakka because of Farakka Barrage the sweet water flow was disrupted and because of that saline water flow of saline water increased that affected Sundarbans. So, this Rampal power plant after coming this project Rampal power plant that has become a final blow for Sundarbans. What we asked government that you first you stop this plant and then with India have a joint plan to save Sundarbans from other activities, other adverse activities and the land grabbing, forest grabbing activities and also talk about the water flow. And this is since this is important for the both the countries, both countries should come forward to save and expand this Sundarbans. Instead the both the government have become united to destroy Sundarbans. That is where our mobilization comes and from 2011 we started campaigning and we there are many research work we have done and after that we contacted different experts from home and abroad in Bangladesh, India and in different countries to understand and to explain all these things and to find huge type of mistakes and misleading information and the lies and the fraudulent different type of arguments in the environmental impact assessment. So, in 2013 we had several types of long march and it gained a huge public support and after 2013 we started connecting Indian activists and experts and we have some sort of coordination and I think it is very important not only for Sundarbans but for many other areas of solidarity and struggle. I will actually quote from one of the articles I really found this line very moving it says you wrote nature is unbounded barbed wire fences cannot stave off encroaching disaster and this of course will mean disaster for both India and Bangladesh. So, because Sundarbans as you said is artificially separated but its ecosystem is spread out over the two countries. How do you think it is important for left solidarity to come out of both the countries and in the larger context of left solidarity in South Asia to save our environment because there seems to be a kind of solidarity with rising religious fundamentalism both in India and in Bangladesh you yourself have you have been attacked in 2008. So, how do you see that once there is this kind of corporate religious fundamentalism kind of a alliance going on how do you see this kind of alliance as central to oppose the alliance that will actually harm all of us. Yes, this is very alarming situation we are living in today's world we must have the global context we must keep in mind that the global context is also very important after war on terror the so called war on terror that gave different ruling classes of different countries ample opportunity to misguide people to militarize more and to grab for corporate profit land the people's lives people's body and also forest and environment. So, for South Asia the government every government Bangladesh government Indian government Pakistan government all governments most of the governments are like fighting they are saying that we are fighting terrorist and from themselves they are producing they are providing all the terrorist development development they are they are they are organizing development terrorism on the people and they are they are looking for justification by saying that we are fighting terrorism. So, their cooperation is corporate cooperation and on the on the basis of corporate cooperation they are like exploring every possibility to privatize everything for corporate profit. So, they do not bother about the river they do not bother about forest they do not about the land and the people's lives livelihood everything they are crazy about making profit. So, they are they are like coming one after another different type of projects. And so, religious fundamentalism and religious fascism and this corporate fascism that comes together and everywhere in India and Bangladesh everywhere we are seeing that this corporate fascism what we what we know from the text book that New Liberal Reforms this corporate fascism is is like they are soft they they need a soft window like for example, Hindutva or patriotism or Mukti Dhrichetana liberation spirit of liberation or all these things they are using as rhetoric and to bring a consent manufacture consent among the people for themselves to rationalize their gluting plundering and destruction of nature etcetera. But people's lives and livelihoods this environment our history our struggle are very much connected we we cannot in isolation we cannot fight this this barbarism in South Asia the people's lives and struggle are so much connected like environment environment and nature rivers air nothing can be divided on the in the in the political by the political border if Bangladesh air is polluted Indian air will be polluted but if Bangladesh water is gone Bangladesh river is affected Indian ultimately India will also be affected and Sundarban for Sundarban it is very much very much evident that this Sundarban is if affected in Bangladesh part it will affected in Indian part these France and other things political border BSF and BJP they will not be able to save this Sundarban. So we the solidarity our solidarity if we if we can articulate our goals for like decent life a a a people solidarity across religion caste class and the nationalities then we will find that we will have solidarity on the issue of fighting communism fighting religious fascism fighting real government developmental terrorism and to find a vision for a really democratic peaceful environmentally sound development paradigm for South Asia that is what we try to achieve and that is very much needed for the left in Bangladesh left in India and left plus there are other people in general to understand and to come forward to have this solidarity into a solid and very dynamic struggle since India is a big country and Indian government is like leading the South Asian corporate hegemony then people and activists and the left in India they have more responsibility to materialize this solidarity and if they if they take more initiative I think it is it will be very easy to materialize our solidarity and as people struggle in all over South Asia. Since you brought that up let me also ask you this question do you think that now we of course know that because of this kind of warmongering speech that goes around in South Asia the actual development projects that will help the people in this region irrespective of the countries and borders they get cancelled for example as you know that the SARC summit will not be held which was supposed to be held this because India pulled out so how do you think that these particular decisions which are taken in the name of nationalism in the name of working for the people actually help eradicate the actual parameters of development. The ruling class needs to keep the sense of conflict alive in the people's mind so they create tension they create the possibility of war and this this this warmongering patriotism that helps to helps armaments builders armaments business that helps corporate business that helps to to to obstruct the peoples to people connection so we need to work for the alternative development paradigm we have to bring the alternative development model before the people that we need others very badly for existence of ourselves and for development of ourselves and the people to people connections in South Asia is crucial to find a new democratic South Asia. We really hope that we will find that new democratic South Asia. Thank you very much for joining us here.