 What's going on everybody it's your man Kory and today I have a special guest on the digital dash this guy right here man is pretty much the guy that I go to anytime you hit me up asking me about publishing it's something that I don't completely understand myself but I got my guy with me David man publishing Guru man hitters Johnson gave me y'all. I appreciate you for coming through bro how you doing? Good man thanks for having me bro. Just for the people that are watching man the people that aren't familiar with you I guess give a little bit of your background let us know. How did you how did you even get to publishing? What should have journey been like give us all the good stuff? All right so when I was 12 or 10 I used to look at the back of vinyl records and my granddad used to play for like big people like James Brown, Jackie Wilson. He's done a documentary on most of shows on Netflix. It's pretty dope but anyways the scene his name on there was this cool like this scene his name printed on the back of something and he always tell me do you think my name is cool thinking about the songwriters the producers and the publishers so he gave me up to gain like early so so then I just I played drums for a long time then I stopped looking Rod Banz got into that then I went to a show one of the guys was like hey that song you're pasting the movie that's a scene license I was like what's that scene license you know so I was like you know he's like film TV placement you know so basically like kept asking questions I remember on a Nashville next weekend you want to hang out I was like okay I didn't even know this guy just met him at this show so with the Nashville show me music role introduced me to some people some publishers we're still cool to this day basically that was my world like okay that's what I want to do I got out of figure out to get in that world so it's like Silicon Valley you see something that's tangible just go there figure it out and you're working the space you know so basically that's kind of how I got in from there just word is what a scene license was and now five years later I've got placements these same license so so was your I guess going into the scene license and stuff was it was your first job just more so about learning the process of pitching music to supervisors or what was that I guess that early process in what it looked like so basically I interned three years in country music in publishing which was the best thing ever because I got to learn actually the chain of command from a songwriter a publisher a song a songplugger a sync rep all these terms that I got to hear in everyday office like going to meetings going to different labels is so I started off in the beginning I would just go like pitch songs to other cut other songwriters that's how I started with songplugger in the beginning so I was like back in the day to carry like stuff of CDs and tapes I did not just just carry my little phone and I get you know had the Google Drive on there but then from there I was like man this is cool then I got to pitching for film and TV which was pretty cool that was got some indie films that's in too crazy but got some indie films that was pretty fun then after that I was like okay it's more to this and I come down to Atlanta and nobody would like really understand I was saying so I was like hmm then there's the administration side which is all about the meta the metadata metadata is money so that this basically from there that's why I was like okay that's what I want to do because I can help out some people here you know register them songs from there you can get paid okay so so I guess let's back up a little bit and so we're always talking about our publishers and stuff on the channel like talking to ours about getting that paperwork together and of course we have ours that come through the channel a little bit more established I know what's up but we do get a large group of like ours who like don't understand any of this so those are looking at explain to them what exactly publishing is and why they should care about it okay that's a very good question a lot of people say oh I don't have much money out there why it's good that differently to collect if you have some streams you got money to collect and you got two to three years to collect it or it goes into the black box of royalties so publishing so there's three types of published maybe start publishing deals or is that a good place maybe we'll just say copyright what is a copyright copyright is the term is a limited duration monopoly and copyright is lifetime plus 70 years so then anything that you write down or you sing on your phone anything that's tangible that is copyright now if you just have this idea in your head and you never tell you never like put it on paper anything then it's not it's not copyright you can't copyright that but it didn't once you have a song it's good to register your song with the copyright office costs $35 but it's intellectual property that is an asset to you that you own so and then I guess from there let's talk about what a song actually is a song has two copyrights get the sound recording and the music composition sound recording is using with the label owns and the music composition is what the publishing company is the control of I'm not gonna say own because sometimes they don't own it but I'm on the composition side I'm making sure monitoring the place that is going to pay the collection and just helping adding value to the song whether I can pitch to somebody or somebody wants to sample one of my guys or collab it's just multiple ways but so going back to the whole music composition side why you need publishing because you own that asset you can own you can sign a bad label deal and still own your publishing okay yeah you can it won't you didn't sign like a 540 deal that's a such thing as a 540 deal this is when they fuck you out with your ways publishing merch touring I isolated stuff like if you order food or something they just they take that too like yeah your cell phone bill some crazies label stuff yeah so you can just be careful don't ever sign your publishing away but you gotta like it's good to start your own publishing company for the simple fact you own that asset so like when you sign them be in my or ask cap am I going too fast is about the right speed this is so actually even before you get into the starting publishing company stuff let's kind of I guess stick around like more so like what publishing is I do want to get into that yeah I kind of want to get into that from the stance of like going with some of these other entities out here versus like doing exactly what you're about to talk about so sticking with it kind of like the I guess the need for publishing companies or publishing in general for artists so publishing is pretty much the the composition and the writing of the song artists need publishers to help them keep track of where the song is being used outside of just the artists themselves that is that like a fair way like the fair amount of like I guess work to put into what publishing companies do that accurate yeah yeah so the basis of how we should come and do is exportation of the song administration was the collection and the monitoring and the licensing of the song protecting the copyrights and then you got the creative side is which is pitching songs for sync or just like you know getting two producers together to make something awesome music so they can go pitch it to Katy Perry or whoever and then development because that's the biggest thing in Nashville when everybody works on in the country music is development like they see something in somebody they don't sign them so like maybe a two-year deal but they got developed they got to get them out there called doing a thing called co-rights in Nashville called co-right and this is term in Nashville called a Nashville co-right and that's what co-right means basically me and you get in the room and it's automatically 50-50 or whoever the people in the room that's what that's what co-right is how many people in the room that's when people get on a splits on what's called split sheet hip hop is a little different sometimes I've seen 15 riders on one song and like you get 2.5% or 0.30% you don't really get money like that but I mean you can get something but it's a pain but yeah so that's basically what Publishing Company does admin collection exploitation development and creative okay so I guess then let's go into what you're about to bring up is so what does it what does it look like for artists to I guess start that on Publishing Company or even I guess even before you answer that is it is it feasible for an artist to start on Publishing Company or would it make more sense for them to go with someone who already has this in place like it depends like if you're on the level of you have a song between my savage you're producer or you got depending on how many streams on YouTube if you have x amount you should start on Publishing Company and let somebody on the back end like me come in and add it for you basically I just manage your catalog make sure I'm the data guy just bring me bring me your data I'm a service to you I work for you you know now somebody smaller or they just don't want to bother with it because basically how administration works Publishing Administration deal is the copyright owner which is the producer or the songwriter or sometimes the artist so country in hip hop is so crazy Nashville how you need the artists right there on songs so that's why they're songwriters okay technically in hip hop the producer is a songwriter so in country you have what they do is called 50% of the lyrics and 50% for the music so it's 50-50 and hip hop you got this crazy shit going on these German guys sitting loose these guys in Atlanta right now so you got the melody then you got the beat then you got the lyrics okay so there's three already splits automatically okay cuz somebody's building a beat around the loop and then the guys put lyrics on top of it okay so it's not 50-50 unless the loop guys get somebody's gonna screw it 50-50 somebody is this is be real but yeah it's just and there's no right way to do the splits it's not like oh you should get 25 if you do the loop or she get 10 if you do the beat or if you get 13 there's no right way is just don't be a douche okay just don't be a douche you just have to be fair with everybody okay so I guess let's kind of I guess stepping to more so the establishment side of it so we hear a lot about like ask out we hear a lot about be a mile we hear a lot about sound exchange and Harry Fox what exactly is the difference between going to those different they're called PROs right performance is that the correct BMI ask cap our PROs okay sound exchange is indeed it for this self so yeah I'm gonna start there yeah you do it yeah you like BMI ask about PROs so funny story about BMI I gotta gotta be careful when I say but I really don't give a fuck so BMI in 2005 actually invented the Shazam technology there's a entity BMI is a face there's an entity that runs the BMI Kalei Martin digital basically what they do is they have all the data but they don't give it out okay that yeah it's Google it it's crazy it's insane ask cap I don't really know too they do the same exact thing but BMI collects in your royalties that played your songs that played in bars clubs restaurants anywhere in coffee shops they collect the public performance royalties radio they collect all that like this anytime the songs play out in public BMI ask at this CSEC there's actually nine PROs in America I don't know the I know GMR is one thing that's the one duration time to it's like some more but yeah we don't need more PRPROs in America don't need more then you have sound exchange sound exchange collects anything that's not non-interactive non-interactive means Pandora series radio it's like stuff you can't control right non-reactive exactly yeah so then BMI ask them the interactive stuff okay so that's like the Spotify right so so I guess what's the difference between like the streaming payouts I mean like royalty payouts in the back is it the same thing pretty much is that like is that two different sides of the same coin so actually right now it's crazy story like you can get you get so Spotify actually playing two royalties out mechanicals and performance okay so but they're looking to change that by 2021 with this new well the MMA just passed the Music Modernization Act but there's this new entity is the mechanical licensing collective it's gonna be a new building it's gonna be well entity whatever that's gonna be focused on collecting mechanical licensing it's gonna be a natural it has not even built yet but it's gonna be a natural so yeah they right now you can pay it off mechanicals and public performance but what in the future they're trying to do the same where spy filing page one out one of the two okay yeah so that's it's called selective withdrawal this day just I just went to this publishing thing and heard a lot of stuff and there's a lot of information but yeah as Brian and so Harry Fox to bring that up they cleared all the mechanical license mechanicals is anytime you saw stream download or play that's mechanical lessons okay okay so is it I guess so another thing I do hear a lot I get a lot of questions from artists about is publishing this right it seems to me like a lot of artists are looking towards publishing companies to kind of get these deals to kind of get some of that money to offset career costs one like the traditional labor right so I guess from your experience one is that is that like a smart idea to take to take some of these advances against like your royalties and stuff yes then to what does it what are metrics that these companies look to from artists before you consider handing out bags to these artists that's a good question because I gotta tell people like it's people that I see they say hey I want to cope up deal done songs with like any everybody in the industry but you can't bring me the data or your royalty statements they show you are crediting on that so you need to have admin deal in the beginning where you just admin deal basically is you own a hundred percent of the copyright somebody's just put in the metadata and making sure and imagining catalog and this straight administration work pretending your licenses and all that but yeah so and actually the other question if you want to cope up deal if you're a country writer yes you should sign a cope up deal that works out in country because I just seen some friends that it works out for them like their servant tables and I was gonna get a cope up deal they're not they focus on that that's their job you know hip hop to a little different like they want to hold you against your royalties I'm that's it I'm just saying I've seen that that is a girl don't do cope up deals and hip hop keep ownership of your copyright because you can still just ask you still get money from a label if you really want money that bad do an admin deal for two three years go to a bank but hey this is my data this is when I bring you to the table and I won't X amount dollars because I'm already bringing X amount in so you have to have something it's like startups you know they need to see the plan the pitch and all that history right exactly you know so they can follow the projections like that's what they want to see this finances at the end of the day you know it's if you did a song that was you know it's got it's doing good on YouTube and that doing good in the performance world then you know you can see okay like you're doing good here so we can at least see that you know the fact you have something to show somebody this is amazing so okay so I do I want to kind of like that because it is still something that confused me a little bit okay so I know if it confused me it's probably confusing hundreds of other people out there so explain to us and you did touch on a little bit but explain to us the different types of royalties like what are the different types of royalties that artists should be looking out for and then like I guess when are they applicable like when does that certain royalty like apply to an artist okay so royalties right yeah so you have mechanicals that's what Harry Fox there's other digital services they collect there but yeah mechanicals anytime it's on stream or download mechanicals then you got performance anytime it's on play in a public setting which is bars restaurants clubs karaoke then you have signature station so signatures also film and TV but YouTube that is sync license those are sync royalties as well so YouTube usually takes about three four months to kind of like figure like hey YouTube is a really dumb computer so you have to like stay on it to make sure nobody's claiming stuff when you are on your on your song so and and have publishing works in royalties anytime the song doesn't equal a hundred percent or it's more than a hundred percent nobody gets paid it's called dispute I clean up I do a cleanup and like most of my clients thing a client's catalogs called metadata Restorations so like every so three months I just do a cleanup it's like painting your house or something but just kind of make sure everything is flowing right royalties are going through why they create the music but disputes can ruin payments if people are not on that that's why you have people like me to stay on it the paperwork right right yeah so I guess even that so I is is as far as the paperwork aspect to have everything together is it just the split sheet that needs to be in order or is it more to it is there more to like royalty tracking that helps you guys do your job better the road the species mostly for everybody who's in that studio session or whoever added value created contribute to the track to make sure they get what they deserve for what they put in the special species therefore so usually when I'm talking to the publishers we talk and we're like okay cool and then we register the words and once that happens it's on us to kind of track it so the PRO system is basically they pay quarterly so it's four times a year and YouTube is once you about four months maybe maybe five before months then it's paid out monthly from like the last month it's like rent basically so the previous month so I guess you would get paid from the month before August July and then but yeah so and you said the money that's pretty much not accounted for during that time goes into the black box period if you were talking about yeah so I guess talk a little bit more about that what what's the time window for that like how long do you have the claim stuff before it goes to that period man like I guess once it hits that black box is it just like the money that's a good that's a good question so the black box how it works is they say you have two to three years okay this that's what it is right now that's from sound machine be in my ass cow we have two three years to collect that the royalties YouTube same thing two three years that's this standard two three years so usually what happens in the black box what happens the am I ask out pay out the market share like so all this money that is accounted for that people didn't claim goes to like say Beyonce was she collected 60% of the market share in the sound right royalties so they take them royalties and give it to her okay and then be in my ass have most still money there they just like okay we just keep it to pay our salaries for our companies okay okay they're over here and stuff like that so so the artist today let's say let's say somebody watching this puts out a song today that song let's not say it blows up let's say it does really well and they don't have to register and then the two years goes by let's say they meet somebody like you and you tell them like hey man this hasn't been accounted for everything before that period is it like back collections from it like already being paid on me this now for those years or is it just like that ass out and it starts at the period where you catch it from down up that's a new question is it it's money depends on the relationship it's like a publisher like me going and I go talk to BMI and sit down with them and ask have they don't like that they're that's their job but they don't like that yeah I don't care if they don't like what I say they don't they need to get off the ass and do their job I don't care like they PR was when I exist in five to ten years this is be real they computers is out of date it is they're not they might even monitor and have the stuff that's out there like it's all the system is based on 1911 for ASCAP was the first PRO and basically their market was to monitor stuff that played on the radio ASCAP was the first PRO in Nashville BMI came alone because ASCAP wouldn't play the black jazz people so BMI was like oh we'll start something BMI says for broadcasting music incorporated so they were like all right we'll take the black musicians and they came in was like hey we'll help y'all out and that's how BMI started seaside came later and their history is a little different they actually work they work but BMI ASCAP no rap beats but just work man but their technologies just not keep up with them does not design for today's model the music industry digital and streaming because it's so fast yeah it's just so much music and like when you when you go put in a claim you got to stay on these people you got to really stay on them like it's like my job is to go collected and like what are you doing like you can't help me out like they claim they're busy but their own job is to make sure that businesses are paying them a blanket license so they can stay in business so really every business whether it's a doctor's office the mall the Greenburn mall or Linux or whatever business it is gas stations they pay was it all of garden they all play a blanket license to the PROs to use music in their establishments it's the law if you don't you can get shut down it's real like they're they're coming after people like they have people to sit there all day just to call businesses hey just to let you know you pay your your license you know but but what these songwriters that need to claim their royalties yeah that's more important to me so I mean that's the side I'm on so but yeah I mean I don't know businesses to get that I get it but you got to pay but it's gotta be a better system which there is gonna be because technology is gonna disrupt the PRO system all right and this is this is kind of backtracking a little bit but I literally just thought this question yeah is so for those those artists who are let's say they're not going after the traditional artists model artists lifestyle so for those artists who want to even be more so songwriters or people in the background or maybe even just do let's say they just want to be like commercial artists like I just want my music and commercials and TV shows are our publishing companies I guess are they the main gateways into the world like I want to be a songwriter without need to come through like a well established publisher that can shock me to different people is that the role of a publishing company it can be but it's a lot of what that is is basically relationships like there's people that just make music for video games as people who just make music for TV shows as people who just make music for actually movies like the composers composers basically yeah so there's different worlds of that and then there's composers just for trailers and there's composers just for promos so it's it's very niche and once you like once you find your thing you're good at you probably just gonna stay right there you can be self-published that's totally fine you know you can be self-published or just to have an admin person just take care of it make sure you're getting paid yeah I was I just work with a guy and basically he which is getting advertisement like Zaxby's Wells Fargo so advertisement he's just doing the music for advertising for that and that's still that's PR only because it's performance but yeah it's sync license and then there's also a thing in LA in Nashville that's maybe New York there's just sync artists sync artists are just artists that so you there's a band called the black keys you probably won't hear you hear their music everywhere but some like I don't know like a not established commercial company can't afford a million dollar song for like 30 seconds to use the black key so they find a indie band they can pay maybe only 50,000 and then they get they keep their royalties or whatever so there's sync artists out there seeing bands like I encourage that that's like you don't have to be an artist like oh I'm just an artist I'm gonna go Spotify I mean that's cool but have a plan like if you can a sync artist is a good way to make a living so like you can just do that songwriting making beats the sink areas that money's is that money's they can change your life you can buy a house okay I guess just I guess just kind of wrap it up man so what I've got now this conversation is that publishers pretty much help you protect your intellectual property your master's your sound recordings and help you get the most of your money right so I guess where would be a checklist or I guess I guess checklists is probably the best way a checklist for artists to make sure they have all their ducks in a row when the console that publishes and their dealings with the song so make sure like they don't they don't get fucked in the long run right if you're uncomfortable after the session with like not tucking the splits you need to have a manager or me I'm not a I don't go after people like a bill collector I'm making a point to be persistent like hey let's try to reach the song so some kind of split sheet you need some kind of whatever that is like a split sheet or you're doing your phone I missed there's cool apps out there there's the lab this is oddly this chamber there's cool apps that do digital split sheets the real cool technology but then again you got to have people they agree on the splits and they make a great song it's awesome but can we agree on the splits so I guess splits is the main thing and this sick towel should publish it was going on if you have a you know admin person or a manager don't let nobody who doesn't know publishing to register yourselves because then somebody really angry on the other team but I think the biggest thing is just split sheets make sure you're signing with a PRO and just kind of keep track of all the emails that you do like you contact with people it's you kind of keep track of it so that helps the publisher or your manager of like okay we can find this person if we need to to go change something if we need to this organization is key and keeping good relationships so relationships split sheets sign up with a PRO that's really about it and just contact me if you need anything don't be afraid to hit me up I'm cool with that okay last question before we close it out is you did touch on a little bit you said that you would recommend the artist starting what exactly does it look like to start like what is that process like what do they need to do so when you sign up with a PRO there you be my let's say we'd be in my first you sign up be in my and you can sign up with a songwriter then go back around set by the publisher so it's a hundred and fifty dollars on the sole proprietor you don't have to do it LLC because like I think 250 or something you don't have to else you can do some product but you had to choose three names just in case one of the names is taken like you know the brand-man publishing or you know Batman and Robin public to make sure it's the same whatever but three different names and then that do their work and like okay this thing registered you could use this name and that's from there you can you just the link to your own bank account you know and then you're having a person just kind of takes care from there so starting the publishing company the easy part is fine the qualified admin person to run at this yeah you need to find somebody that actually knows what they're doing to run there yeah it's and then say they were ASCAP you just go in put your name in ASCAP is fifty dollars a sign up as a writer and if you don't publish it there's a hundred dollars total the sign up for both and same thing you choose you choose three names and from there they'll pick the one that works and you use that one for ASCAP you know so like I'm a publisher so I have to sign up with all three ASCAP CSAC and BMI I have to use all three because I got a writer with CSAC I have a writer with BMI I have a writer with ASCAP BMI ASCAP CSAC yeah okay okay cool so legal entity sub-appridership or LLC you recommend sub-appridership register that with one of the PRO and find you a trusted admin person your publishing company solid legit good to go okay cool man all right man so I guess other than that man let them know I guess actually before we get to that man because we touch on stuff you got going on so I guess educate them on like what you're doing now how you're helping artists and then let them know how they can find you and reach out to you so they can get somebody in that corner know what the fuck they're doing all right for sure right now I'm just trying to stop this more black network of publishers whether it's I mean a lot of course but publishing is not a competition we're all in this together because you have publishing company I have publishing company if we have two producers that you make great mutual together we both benefit yeah so it's like it's a team effort at the end of the day for Atlanta not to have publishing companies I don't know how we missed that national is built on publishing so what I'm working on is building this network of publishers this it just needs to be more of us doing it like that way you own your asset we need to own intellectual property we need to own that that's amazing we can own something so that's what I'm building right now just mainly just you know sign people left to right and just building beautiful network because I just point is just connecting dots like so much hey David I need him with this project I need a guy to mix it this producer actually mixes and then I need somebody to top line surround I got this guy that knows his girl actually getting right great melodies on top of you know top lining basically so it's just just making people into making intros throughout that's what it is relationship why publishing is a long game is definitely a long game it's not overnight success it's definitely a long game but your benefit if you just stay in it that's that's the big thing in relationships just relationships just talking to people because we all want to make I mean everybody's about to have published companies now like that's the biggest thing like WWE has a record label in a publishing company so they own that content actually yet my client made the music with WWE is Jim Johnson he's one of my that's crazy I get to work with him he's amazing guy yeah he made the music with Stone Cold and Rock and a taker be anyways any hip-hop guys want to collab with Jim Johnson you know if you like wrestling you know he's ready to do some stuff yeah he's ready to be ready to make that jump like it's just different you know just try to stay innovative as well I was looking out for the I'm always looking how the future of music licensing and publishing is going to benefit us publishers in the long run like twitch and all these other streaming platforms where like e-sports is involved how that's what I'm working on also is like how are we gonna benefit from this like how because right now it's still up in air they say we're not getting paid but there's money there but it's not you know it's not a lot because the way is still new so basically trying to be if this only cutting edge of making sure we're staying on top of everything as publishers who make sure we're getting paid like and our songwriters that's the main thing take care about songwriters producers and our artists as well all right I know that I said that was the last question but you just said something to make me think of one more question so whenever a new a new platform comes up right like Tiktok we'll just say any any new platform pasta that deals with audio is it do those platforms have to kind of tap in with you guys to make sure everything is okay or is it like this is new territory we got to kind of like get in there figure out what's up figure out what we need to report to you yeah that's a good question so that really is what happens there's an organization called the NMPA the National Music Publishers Association basically they're like I can't say mafia but they're the guys that kind of go be like yo what's up you know we see content over here we see music so you know yeah but it's the more the bigger publishers so good thing you said that so actually right now I'm trying to figure out how to get the money for genius I'm any publisher they pay royalties for my client's work because his lyrics are copyrighted on that so this is lyrics on that page and they say on their site they pay ever deal with Universal Sony Warner all the big publishers and the MMPA but I'm an indie guy and I reached out to these people hey they claim my royalties nobody's gonna say anything what's you get you get a royalty payment for having a lyrics on lyrics works like yeah I know well it's ads you sell the ads popping up there's money okay yeah so I'm right now trying to figure out hey if genius if you're watching yeah I know the money is like I can find a dollar that's why you want to hire me I can find the money and I'm gonna find the money so there's money on genius if you got this guys women guys there's plenty of people right now a lot of stuff on genius don't even there's money just sitting there and then the money just sits there with genius they have it so they have a deal in MPA so they took in MPA told me yeah I put them on blasts that I need to sign up and they'll take cut of my royalties I said hell no why would I do that yeah this is my money so not signing up with the end MPA I don't care how they feel about it that's what it is I mean I mean some people said you know I mean black publishers are not a thing which is somebody needs to just be that person I mean I caused the ruckus I don't care I'm gonna fight for what's right for us though I'm not just like spazzing my mouth sucking something I don't know I mean I have I still have respect for what people are doing but you also got to speak out in the entertainment industry as you know yeah like if you don't then people just you know and so like what do you feel about this you've come to natural couple times how do you feel the comparison is to Atlanta Nashville I mean when I was out there for the IEva conference I was talking to someone about how Nashville feels like the white Atlanta that's the best way to put it where it's like they're both these two really big like music industry cities just on opposite sides of like the spectrum so it's like they're all going hard for these practices and like pushing for the country in the rock culture where it's like here in Atlanta we're going a lot harder for the urban culture like rap hip-hop same mission same goal same everything different right that's what I got it is you tell it right so you know it's crazy about country country music this is gonna open your eyes country music is the only genre of music that has association that runs it okay CMA okay okay rock hip-hop reggae gospel has a little association but it's not you know create the country music they haven't figured out they have the CMA thing is they a genre of music is ran by association it's not going anywhere I guess cuz what I did notice while I was out there talking to like the producer I told you talking about earlier some of songwriters is they really talked about country like if you one don't come through Nashville not only if you like you are an aspiring country music artist you know don't go through naturally don't go through these people you will not have a career in country music and so it sounds like a lot of that ties into the CMA controlling everything yep so like this country artists of course in Austin but the office but if you it's just a different they don't really naturally doesn't really they it depends if they know the right people they'll get in the door but if you don't they just stay in Austin Texas they don't really come to Nashville yeah you know I'm saying and this country artists in LA but it's a little different that's why the pop country kind of stuff kind of coming in yeah but still like naturally you gotta come through yeah you know it's kind of like Atlanta you can't be a rapper and be from you know I don't in Alabama you probably can you can but like it looks you're well I mean I would argue like like I said based on like I said what you're saying now in those conversations I have people at IE but is that that is what seems to I think that's why rappers doing better than country is because rappers and moderated it's not it could be like the kid in the back of nowhere and makes it where it's like it's similar countries like yo man you can make country music in different places if you want to be a country star you gonna have to come yeah I think that regulation of the process is what is slowing the genre down outside because I look like I said no damn it's like y'all like you said they got the money they got the infrastructure they got all the businesses there but the one question I kept hearing at that conference is okay we have all these things that these rappers don't have why is rap music dominant the digital the streaming the SoundCloud I mean SoundCloud is YouTube just the fact that we can make music right now and put it up on the internet and now how to go through a label and like get cleared to see what was the image right or we gotta you know put PR behind it and like get all you know the the works of it you know like your PR is whatever you make it you know like somebody can make do a viral dance to your song or whatever you know yeah but yeah that's a good point that digital and streaming the gatekeeper world is just different all right man this is a cool conversation man I learned a lot man so I guess before we dip out man let them know where they can find you how they can get in contact with you you know I'm sure a lot of them want to hit you up out of business yeah um can you put my like Instagram tag right here David Pellum P-E-L-L-U-M-I-I not like New York I-I-I but I-I-I I have it on the screen for you guys I have it in the description section is below and it's always if you feel like you learn anything today please like and share this video hit those post notifications as well as I wouldn't want you to miss anything once again my name is Kory this has been my guest David and I will see y'all next time