 Hey, good evening. Another edition of Mount Pilier Civic Forum. And no, this is not February. We don't have Town Meeting Day coming But I felt it was appropriate that we do a series of shows now in the reopening of Mount Pilier And they're really good shows all of them are We have Anne Watson talking from the mayor's slot on how she views What's come down since Town Meeting Day and what's come down since I talked to her in February Bill Fraser same way Talking about the abysmal state of the city budget and the regulations that console has passed to keep us all safe. I have Carolyn Brennan from the Kellogg-Hubert Library talking about the reopening of the Kellogg-Hubert Library and talking about what's been going on I have Dan Groberg from Mount Pilier alive talking about downtown businesses And what has and hasn't been going on downtown with downtown businesses I have John Odom coming in from the city clerk's office talking about our our elections in August and November That's good show. I have Libby Bonesdale and Jim Murphy from the schools from the Mount Pilier Rocksbury schools Talking about the spring talking about the graduation that was and wasn't and most importantly talking about what their thinking is for the fall But this one's an honor and this one is special to me I've got both police chiefs today And I've got Tony Fakos with one day left And I've got Brian Pete who's been on the job and will be flying solo after that one day And I am just thrilled to have the chiefs Tony We finally got rid of you. Yep 35 years. It took a while, but I'm gone. I'm heading out heading out to what? That's up in the air right now, but I'm gonna stay in Mount Pilier for a while You were born in Mount Pilier. I was. What part of town? I was born right in the Heaton Hospital, right? Which is now Heaton Woods And I went up grew up with my and my older sisters. We went through the Mount Pilier public school system and And you were at Mount Pilier High School when they had football and not ultimate frisbee That is correct and isarchy and alpine skiing Like the complete slate. Yes Now when did you go into policing? How did that path come to a boy from Mount Pilier High School? Sure. It happened second semester my freshman year in college and I applied for a job as an auxiliary state trooper with the Vermont State Police Which is basically marine patrol the boats in the summertime and and I was fortunate and I got that job in In the spring of 1985 So you went from boats to bikes Yeah, a few years later. Anyway, yes What was the transition from onto the Mount Pilier police department and you were the cop on the bike? I was one of many So in the so I was already an auxiliary trooper and the That summer between my freshman sophomore year and in august of 1985 later that same year Chief Hoyt hired me as a part-time patrol officer and So then in 1987 I Was decided I really wanted to go in a law enforcement full-time and and Was hired full-time as a Montpelier police officer in 1987 So the bikes didn't come around the bike patrol We didn't start that till 1993. What was the theory behind the bike control? It's really So many things That are paused about a bike patrol number one They're you're out in the public. You're accessible. It's just like foot patrol except you have a little more mobility and So we're foot patrol to me one of the downsides if if if you want to create problems Let's say you want to break in a car or something. Well, if you look at, you know You see okay the officers at state main right now. So I can go do something You know another part of town So the mobility that you have on a bike bicycle is Is is one of the strongest assets of being on a bicycle patrol unit So you have speed you have stealth But you have that approachability and the best part is kids kids and adults Because they can relate because when you're in the neighborhoods Uh, you know a child will say wow, he's on a bicycle. I'm on a bicycle and it was just a win-win A way of policing one part of patrolling So it was an early version of community-based policing It was an aspect of it a tool for community policing How many people were around the staff you were in the the Mount Pilger of 8500 not 7500 Yeah, we fluctuated. I think you know, I don't even remember so But we we've bounced around between 16 officers to as high as 19 officers I think we may have been around 87 near the 18 plus mark. I think I'm not sure so you're roughly the same size police department that we are correct Chief Pete, I am the official greeter on town meeting day. I gather 25 signatures in order to be the official greeter Welcome to Mount Pilger. Thank you very much an honor and a privilege privilege to be here How did police chief? Where was he born and how did he get into policing? Um, well, I was speaking of you in the third person I was born in Chicago on the south side. Um, and uh Uh policing Is it kind of turned into a family business if you will my both of my parents joined the Chicago police department later on in their lives and in their careers and So as I was going through, you know, graduating through grammar school and then And onto high school is when my parents started coming into the law enforcement fold Um, and then seeing what they were doing was was extremely interesting So I ended up getting a graduating from college and getting a commission in the air force and I started off an aircraft maintenance and But that pull towards law enforcement was was was really attractive and strong for me So I ended up going into the air force office of special investigations And then after doing Five years roughly five years there. That's when I came back I left the air force and came back to Chicago and then joined the Chicago police department Was your brother on the force at that time? Uh, no, not at the time. I was the third and then my brother, uh, came A little a few years after What Chicago seems like such a different world in Montpelier first on the south side of Chicago Is that white socks or cubs territory white socks territory? My wife is a cubs fan So that I had to to eat that one when we first met This is a very beautiful smart intelligent woman and I want to get to know her So I had to make certain sacrifices and since she was a cub fan I had to go to a cub game that was the first and Hopefully the last time of or go to a chicago cub and say that in jest the cubs are a great team, but i'm a white socks person What is the south side of chicago? I mean how many people live there? Uh, what? Oh lots, uh south side is uh and It's you know right now because of what's going on in life and everything that that's happening within chicago When you say south side, it's always synonymous with with violence but there are Speaking very honestly and frankly the entire city is gentrified. So you have a different color colors backgrounds ethnicities even religions That are that are concentrated in certain areas And and as well as socioeconomic status, but within the south side there are pockets everywhere within it. So You could literally cross one side of the tracks and everything is great You cross back over to the other side of the tracks things may not be so great So, um, it's it's just there's a lot Going on were you assigned to your own neighborhood as tony? I was working his own neighborhood No, and uh in chic in chicago, um, it's everything's based on seniority So, um, when I got out of the academy didn't matter how old I was didn't matter what experiences I had And it's low person low low person who just got in Newest person you're going to knights and you're going into the areas that we need mania So I ended up going to the west side now. What is the west side of chicago? it's another one of those places when you google it and they say the Here where a lot of the concentrated acts of violence happen, unfortunately So they tend to be at the south and the west sides and I was in the 11th district and one of the more um Busiest districts within the city limits now the 11th district How many police were assigned to the more than 18 probably? Uh, yeah, we roughly what if we were lucky we'd do it at demanding issues We would have 18 now not even that many on on one particular shift So they're they're literally hundreds chicago is a department of uh on paper depends on who you talk to but 13 to uh, 13 five Sworn officers for the department 13,500. Yes So you're sitting in a precinct, I would imagine That's bigger than our police department. Yes, but and I'll also say to that is, uh I think They're pros and cons with everything, but I think smaller agencies have a more I think have more challenges Have a different set of challenges that larger Departments do not have and to me they're because they're so personable They're a lot more difficult in my humble opinion. How so? Well, you can get lost in the crowd in chicago. You can get lost You can just be just another officer. You can kind of just ride things the way they are You come to a smaller community. You can't get lost. There are expectations. There are Take take mob pillow. For example, there's a culture here in law enforcement and there are expectations And when these discussions happen amongst supervisors, amongst leaders You you have to adapt to that culture. You have to understand what those expectations are and you have to to to act on them progressively and and uh and assertively so You can come down with a policy in the city of chicago and somebody can say well Well, this doesn't apply to me because I don't do this all the time But you cannot you cannot escape past that here Tony, what was the culture under police chief hoyt and how did how did it evolve to The culture under tony fakes. Um, I gotta say, uh, you know Chief hoyt dug was chief for 27 years. Um, so he's the one to hire me and what was so You know to me anyway, as I view his legacy is that He was the one that really started the modernization of the Montpelier police department using technology You know better accountability tools. So we saw that real shift and especially when we when we You know moved into the new the new police station the current station right now. That was what year would that have been? 2000 and uh, so, uh, you know, we're able to get like for example a technology grant with the help of senator lehi But but what Doug really did is he you know, he You know, even today so valuable is making sure you hire bring in the right people And and so when I took over in 2007, you know, when uh, you know, when when when Doug retired Uh, you know, I had a great crew. I had you know, we were well established and Um, so it was I just added my own set of priorities to was already a very solid foundation Priorities that you added the biggest one was training. Um, you know, I made clear that I was You know that we would be spending a lot more we the city would be spending a lot more money on training Some what elements what would constitute training all the way around? so You know really focusing on areas of high risk low frequency that have the greatest liability for example use of force um, and You know, it's just you know vehicle operation. You know, we don't do a lot of pursuits. Thankfully Uh, yeah anymore. It was a very different time in the 1980s when I came on Um, and these were all lessons that I had learned at what would pursuit be What what would you say chasing people down down memorial? Well, I mean if we're chasing a vehicle for violations You know, um, they happen with you know far too much frequency back in you know when I first came on the job So, um, but there's a variety of things that have changed in policing and and the expectations mental health. Um, I was At the time one of two negotiators as a patrol officer Captain, you know captain neil martel was the other fbi train negotiator We now have three train negotiators But certainly mental health crisis response is is and was definitely an area where we also wanted You know to invest into that level of training And also, uh, I did some at some schools that were you know, just advanced crime scene processing and keeping up with technology And it's something that that dug that dug had had done with us But also investing into supervisory training Many departments even around here in washington county do not send as soon as you're promoted sent an officer away to a specialized training Uh, you know back in my day. So they made sergeant. It was uh, three weeks at the institute for um, law enforcement management at batson at batson college in wells in massachusetts Now, uh, we have an arrangement through the new england chiefs of police Where all of our supervisors including our corporals Upon promotion they spent a couple weeks down at roger williams where it's a much I think A much more robust program. It's one, you know, it's only two weeks versus the three weeks But I think they're getting a lot more subject matter expertise in that Is that unique to montpellier or is burlington doing something? So no burlington burlington vermont state police You know have they have uh, you know, the state police have throughout the new england states My understanding they have an nco non-commissioned officer training um that they go through and there's also um several years ago, uh program that Um, several us attended called the lpo, which is leadership and police organizations. It's based on the west point model of leadership Uh, so again, I mean just because you're promoted if you don't if you're not giving these people the skills to succeed um to help understand Not only, you know the fundamentals of problem solving but also how to best motivate and take care of You know the people under your responsibility brian You listen to what he said does does it resonate? I it wasn't something that was that was going on where you've been a policeman or was it something that you wished Had gone on. I think it was something that I wish had gone on the um again the uh They're different dynamics And and playing a lot of different areas, but I think it's I think I need to I've said it several times before but Montpelier has been On the cutting edge of policing concepts 21st century policing concepts, you know 21st century policing is is uh is pretty much an introduction from Uh, former president barack obama So he brought in a lot of experts who came in of which my predecessor was one Now once you're both in the same room at one point In the training. No, no, we we missed each other He was he was with a with a with a higher panel of folks and I was talking to a to a another panel of folks About a grant a cIT grant He was talking about things that he had they had implemented They had come up with an adaptive best practices the important thing is we were both there at a conference about 16 000 police chiefs and commanders were talking about law enforcement mental mental health crisis response though in two different lanes So basically you're moving on parallel paths in a sense In terms of 21st century policing now For those of us who don't know what 21st century policing is Which of you wants to talk about the panel that came up with that and its relationship to community policing? Take it away with one of one of the sure. Um So the the task force report came out in 2015 and the uh, Just is kind of set the historic context was after Ferguson Um, and also baltimore with you know with what happened with freddy gray and a lot of others. So, um Not that different. Um, but it's really not as intense of what we're seeing. You know play out right now in america But something had to change what's there was a definite disconnect between the community uh, the police and and how do we do it better and so Um, the president you know, so president obama put together a task force. It was a giant blank I know uh, uh, you know at the top Charles ramsey who was the he's now retired commissioner of the philadelphia police department the former chief of the dc police department Uh, was co-chaired and and I and I just went blank on the other person Uh, but you had the you know the best and the brightest of law enforcement academia and key stakeholders to say Hey, let's uh, let's What's going wrong and how do we make it better? So they came up with six Very You know distinct pillars if you will that would hold in small towns like ours as well as in major cities Exactly. You know the trans lives where we're not having people. Yeah murdered on the street, unfortunately And but it certainly led to some I mean I was fortunate I had a direct one-on-one conversation uh with commissioner ramsey at an fbi conference up in kebec city in 2018 And we were talking about for example, some of the uh unique I came up with specifically we're talking about some of the unique challenges that I've had in mod pilier, you know policing Um, what would those feel what were a couple of I can't I can't remember now Well, one of the areas is certainly has to do with the technology You know piece something where we you know smaller communities struggle for in terms of the cost investment um and what we're and uh And also the taunt the resources for example if you're you know running twitter You know, who's going to staff that you know and and as you get down with smaller agency What happens when you know, you don't want to put too much on one or two people because if they're on vacation or something happens Suddenly, you know the feed of information suddenly changes Um, but I I can't remember which we were talking about but um, I was also very fortunate I was at the white house in 2016 with then police chief trevor wipple from south berlington And evm police chief leon to me. So the three of us were down there On an invite to what's called these policy briefings With several colleagues. So we had about 90 police chiefs and sheriffs down there and just talking about the implementation of Of 21st century policing strategy the six pillars you can remember. Yeah, sure. No the first one is really And it's the cornerstone is building trust and legitimacy You know it has to do with What is legitimacy in terms of legitimacy is is uh, you're the police? Sure We're the police and and you know that we have a natural authority and and uh, but also what's procedurally Does the public feel that not only is the system? But also how we are policing. Is it fair? You know, is it or like right now? This is this is the heart of many of a lot of dialogue both in state houses and in congress even public speak with one voice I mean in my will your all opinions matter. Yeah, well, absolutely And so but how do we so that's you know, it's things for example, uh coffee with a cop How do we you know have have real dialogue? That's not in an adversarial context. Yeah, so Can you say oh, I'm sorry No, but if I can if I can I Pose a question to you and to all your viewers and everyone who's going to see this In asking about what police legitimacy is if you're driving down the street and Those blue lights come up behind you. Oh god What makes them why do you stop the car? You know what authority what gives them the other Well, what gives them the authority to pull you over? What what what causes you or what what what causes you to stop again? It's a joke, but in this town This is a town of 7500 people and a lot of us do know everyone who's in that car You know, uh, and if I didn't stop my wife would kill me Well see true and that too, but you know what else the other thing is If you don't have trust in the only person who's stopping you or who's keeping you from stopping the car as yourself and if you don't believe in legitimacy or or The authority if you will or you don't observe that with the police officer behind you. You're just going to keep going So to avoid those types of things We want to make sure that we earn the trust of the people so that they know us So when they're pulling us over or so if we unfortunately have to pull someone over for something like that They understand that the person who is working Is a professional Values their dignity and honors and respects them. That's what legitimacy is I think Have we had a problem with that in the past Tony? Oh, yeah You know, it's uh, I wouldn't say You know It's in pockets. It's it could be in various groups. Um Sometimes even when it's outside external influence, uh, you know outside of my pillar Yeah, they can be problematic so but So wait, did you want me to finish the the other pillars? Yeah, I was just oh, okay What are the other pillars? I'm gonna take you guys a part on each pillar. Yeah. Yeah No, there's there's there's a lot to it. But I Personally, I think that the first pillar is the most critical because that everything else, you know builds on that So the next one is is, you know, um is is good policy and oversight Um Yeah, are you are you providing clear direction to the police officers? And are you holding them accountable to the whatever standard that is said? So that's really important as well So you have that consistency You know and that you can talk to the public about If you know this happens or whatever this is how this is the policy This is how the officers are trained uh in that policy trained to that policy The third pillar is well, let me stay on that pillar. Uh and bill Fraser's show He spoke about we were talking in the context of a civilian police review board and bill was saying my civilian police review board is my city council And people in Montpelier are not reluctant to give their opinions And and to give them loudly and and to give them frequently and this is a council that takes those opinions into account Do you feel the council gives you a clear direction? well the um Yes or no, I mean that our city council they're they're this is this is Is I'm gonna it's your final day I'm gonna qualify to so Up until recently it's uh When we talk, you know when the city council is you know focusing on strategic planning, for example And goal setting and and and this and I've had the I've shared this with the fire chief as well It's like boy, you know public safety is kind of like way down here to You know, are we gonna get greener vehicles? You know the net zero and affordable housing and those other things And then for then so so in one regard we feel like they don't care about us But the reality of it is too If it's working if you're not worried about your safety That's where any community wants to be And then there's a lot to be I think you know to be proud of in that and then So so to the question of does the city council give me a rough direction You know, they will certainly are very good if they've got a question, you know, why did this happen this way or You know, what's needed and you know, and again, it's uh through the budget process if it's financial I may clear what we feel are our priorities for the department We want to make sure obviously that they're in concert with the strategic goals of the city council Whereas we're we're suddenly seeing a shift now is the current what's happening Not only in Montpelier, but across the country Is now they're paying attention just to making sure, you know, wow Do we have policies, you know, is that kind of a prohibited hold? You know not, you know deadly forest or something So now we're having different conversations But it's always again from the voice of the representing the community As long as they're clear about what we're doing But now there's a new a new focus not because of something that's happened in in the city of Montpelier specifically But as it is it's part of a national conversation. We're at most if not all city council meetings Uh, not not most so only when there's an item or something that's related to the police department And if I could tag on to to what tony had mentioned There is in the most recent city council meeting There was an individual who who had expressed a little bit of frustration and wanting to know what the council's thoughts on defunding reducing The budget for the police department abolishing the police department's entirety and uh But it's a difficult spot for them to be in and I want to put my hats off to them because the fact that they didn't Come right out and and give an opinion one way or the other to me says that they're taking their responsibilities extremely serious by looking at listening absorbing Doing what they're supposed to do is like the officials and hearing from the constituency And then holding the department accountable and asking the department questions to see where it's going to go Or just before they make their decision. So to me, it's an informed decision And um, it's easy to get weighed into that type of politics But I think doing it recklessly is destructive and they have not done that. So I'm extremely um, it's a hard job It's not an easy job that they have. Well, I think tony will speak to this that in recent years Probably a decade the city has turned more towards data-driven management In all different elements beside beyond placing Tony can you speak to that? Yeah, I mean the first time that I was involved with any significant project We had the matrix group. They were uh, they came in um, and and did a full assessment on each department Just to look for you know Efficiencies what's working? Well, what's not working? Well, what they and that's based on um, and they had some of the matter expertise in every in each area such as public works or policing So one of the things we looked at There You know, we had an old records management system that was very secure and robust and what it did But it didn't play well with others. So we had so we couldn't export, you know any data So that was this is also one thing we no longer have that system But that was certainly a challenge. Other thing we learned from that um from the efficiency standpoint But we were too flat of an organization. What does that mean? Uh, in other words, we didn't have enough command and control staff and so the recommendation was that we clearly Designate when when funding or opportunity presents Essentially a cap, you know a number two position and historically we used to have a police captain in Montpelier So we brought back the rank of captain and and uh, so captain neil martel is now in that position So if in the absence of of the chief, for example, uh, you know, the captain is fully trained and able to run the department As well as take on other specialized projects. So um So that was one area, but also two um With with data, for example, we've had put together temporary tasks or or small task forces To deal with certain problems One we did after a shooting in 2011 that spawned a small unofficial task force of fuel, but under then us attorney That was the one at the high school No, no, which one which one was 2011 2011 how to do it was a was a shooting involving drug traffickers Oh, right. Um, and uh, so there's so few shootings in this town that you can yeah, we're about to say that, but um, you know So anyway, so what we did was it was a really, uh, you know Unique, you know effort on behalf of the atf Alcohol tobacco and firearms our former federal partners on they're really our go-to agency on violent crime at the time To and also working closely with chief bombardier in berry city and the vermont state police And in particular the drug task force of the front state police And then we brought in also Prosecutors from the attorney general's office and the u.s. Attorney's office, and we started looking at You know the small problem here So the data piece of it as we over the course of the next year there were I think was at least 14 in federal indictments You know the there was a crew involved with the our shooting here. They were convicted Of of you know conspiring to distribute one two kilos of crack cocaine the berry in my player area Plus the shooting and some weapons charges But what we did was we really Carefully looked at the drug problem And and really a targeted approach in other words, uh, and we've had lasting effects So we saw you know leading up to that we saw a significant late in the years following Eventually it helped us With reducing burglaries and property crime You know because one of the things we do know that if you just arrest You know drug traffickers coming up, you know 89 91 90 more than 91 in particular all day long, you know, you're not going to you know effect change in the community But when you have a really, you know, you take both a tactical and strategic approach and you're using, you know, um data in terms of you know Making sure that and you have you it ended up with lasting positive effects in terms of Controlling crime then later it helps set the spring spring wars and other areas such as We'll get into probably later about project safe catch and things for example if we can if you have an addict that is is is Either committing, um, you know violent felons such as armed robbery or Dealing very commonly they're going to start dealing narcotics to support their habit of burglary and property crime Well until you change their addiction if you give them help and support with their addiction You know that that that problem is going to keep going So that's a different kind of non-traditional way of looking at data versus, you know, what we call cops on dots In other words, here's a map, you know, okay, we've had you know in the lume street area We've had this many uh car breakings. Well my players are so small We all kind of know where those car breakings are So so data tools are different for us in my pilliar In ways we approached out and then they certainly would be you know in various districts in chicago But at the same time Data could be used to frame the question of whether our police are not seeing through a racial filter We collect data on people who were stopped In mon pilliar for traffic citations 2014 there was a that was a statutory requirement that Race data be collected on car stops because that's something that's launched. That's the officer initiated Not just responding to a call for service And so that's something that We've been obviously You know doing our obligation to make sure that that is in there and now the challenge is having You know Right now we're trying to figure out. What is a better platform a more universal platform that not only helps law enforcement But also could be forward-facing so the public has better access to Easy the big the big thing from commissioner schirling right now is data. That's you know, that's easy to understand um, yeah, so Just I don't want this at this moment to slide away. Um How many stops do we make approximately a year? How many traffic violation for a full staff? We'll we'll probably stop, you know upwards of 3,000 vehicles, maybe 370 500. Yeah, but that's that's that's residential population You know the roads, you know, when you look at who's on our roads and we have 302 We have to right so I mean, you know any given time estimations of people in Montpelier can be Well in excess of 20,000 people by day Are we seeing any racial disparities in those numbers? We have not in Montpelier And if I also may add on that While we do have to look at data-driven approaches and intelligence like policing approaches We have to make sure we apply the correct lens to filter it out. So you can um Look at that type of data and see what type of populations are being Stopped by by a law enforcement But you also have to remember that if we pull over Say if you're having a have you're looking at a certain time frame if 10 cars are pulled over and two happen to be Uh people of color or or five happen to be female or male Then then there's a skew to that data. So so automatically you've looked at, you know If by the just by being there four people are pulled over and they happen to be people of color Then you're going to then it could then the numbers could be made to look like that Well, we're disproportionately targeting people of color when in actuality. It's just Who we're stopping at what times we're stopping So you have to make sure that you have a correct filter when you do this that you take everything into context, but while not Ignoring what that could be. I mean because if that becomes something that we're constantly seeing Then that deserves an end-up conversation with within the department and within the community itself Now chief p you are going to inherit if i'm right toni. Tell me if i'm right. I might be wrong The state is going to be requiring body cams. Yes. So you are going to inherit a requirement for body cams How do you feel about that? Every police chief that I have met in my career and all the studies and research that I've done See Tony if I can back up really quick to 21st century police and Tony was there been there done that he got the teacher I was studying people like Tony And moving forward in my in my career. So but Every police chief. I don't think there's one out there If there if there is there times probably up as far as how this profession is going but Every police chief wants access to body worn cameras because it helps more it de-escalates situations It improves accountability. Now. It's not the end all be all but it's another tool to add and uh, so it's just uh, But the problem with that is is where you get the money So you can buy the state has said that I presume the state will Significantly carry this load That's to be determined. They will uh, they're already talking about for the public's department of public safety For fy 22 We're actually more hoping something comes out of congress And some federal funds that could that could certainly Help spring bore us in that direction because we don't envy the state because we understand the state's predicament too It's even with the city's covet 19. So there's a huge funding lag or lap bar Falls shortages. So, uh, it's you know, we're coming into a time that That there's a lot more accountability being demanded and you do that and technology was one of the other pillars of policing but The resources do you have a problem with me taping something on my smartphone? As as i'm watching Pretty common place now. Yes, tony. Do you have a problem with no? We actually have a policy too that makes clear to make sure that the officers are aware that it is absolutely, uh, you know constitutionally, you know appropriate conduct for the public to To videotape us to document us in the performance of our duties now. Now it's probably apocryphal, but i've heard a story that's A lot of that taping ends up taping people who are behaving badly It's not the policemen on that tape who particularly comes off poorly But the person who is on the other side of that. Is that apocryphal? Does that happen? Well, we certainly saw that when we years many years ago when we rolled out chief white rolled out cruiser cams You know, I got to say it was Some of the some of the early complaints that I would I would I would handle as a sergeant And and this was only for the first maybe a couple years You know I get to get a be a minor complaint. I would look at the the cruiser video of the car stop I was like wow this person said this to the announcer and that and and then so you call the person back it's like I looked at the video and they're like what? and So, you know, I even had one That was an in custody one where This person was just really berating with the officer And then filed a complaint and they didn't know that they were being Video taped and because he was he was very intoxicated We showed him the video and then he was like I need I need to contact that officer. I owe him such an apology So, I mean that that was our early and it's a very tiny piece of what eventually we'll have with body camps But certainly You know and also we not only do we see the sometimes the public may be acting Badly but also, you know, we're not perfect either sometimes as well It provides training opportunities for us to say you know back to that whole accountability and oversight you know to the officers like This could have been handled better Or hey, you know what you were you really what you did was you exposed yourself in a a dangerous situation You know or whatever if you've done this so we always it's a it's a good It's a very very good valuable tool both for the police again as bright, but also certainly for the community By the time brian reaches the point in his police chiefing that you've reached Well, we have a joint communication Dispatch center with barry Well, we already have uh, some interoperability that's been that's been we already have we already have some interoperability with barry from redundancy standpoint Both in the montpellier continuity of operation plan for dispatch as well as barry cities So we're we're getting there but you know, it's um You know just to have the two cities would you know come together with the you know It's it's complicated because you have got berlin who's dispatched, you know By the vermont state police you have barry town who's dispatched by the barry town I mean by the lamoille county sheriff's department. So it's certainly it's a complex Conversation, but I am a strong Proponent of regional models where they can effectively happen Chief peep on the same topic. I I'd echo everything that don't he said that From from me being here it's a limited amount of time that I've been here There is a true culture within the montpellier police department of helping As much as possible not just the people we serve for each other, but it's our fellow It's our peer law enforcement agency So there there's a strong desire within the department itself to do everything that we can to get on board and and to To to look at regional models and to to give the limited resources that we have combined them with others and move forward for a stronger Way to service our communities Now one thing that you posted on an extensive facebook that went around that posting And in that you mentioned Different communities that the police will be dealing with including ethnic minorities But also those with mental health issues Can you to elaborate on? The relationship between mental health issues and 21st century policing and community policing I can I can I'll give a quick 30,000 foot view of overview that Where we've come now we can look at the history of it and there's there's a lot of sociology in there And economics in there, but where we're at now is to the point that Law enforcement agencies become the default call for a lot of things that require social service functions. So whether it's going to be Shelter where there's going to be crisis situations where that's going to be You name it someone complaining that this person's not wearing a face mask. It's going to be law enforcement's the default call That's just where we're at now and police leaders for years now have been asking for to have dialogues to talk about What is appropriate and what's not appropriate for law enforcement agencies to to respond to but in the meantime The argument could be there that we're slow at doing it It's a legitimate conversation to have but law enforcement agencies have been working to try to To try to Get past these challenges that we've had. So if you look at something like CIT or crisis intervention training Or what Montpelier did was took that that concept And they localized it based on the needs and based on the resources that they have here, which is called team 2 So it we're still finding we're still it's incumbent upon us to find ways To do these things to answer these calls in safe manners and we're working our hardest to do that Tony what is team 2? team 2 is a state it's the brainchild of of former commissioner mary moulton who's now the Executive director of washington county mental health, but when she was was post iran And they had to rebuild essentially the state's mental health system We you know and so what team 2? It was based off of a lot of the relationship that we had here in washington county law enforcement in particular art You know like a Montpelier police department with washington county mental health where if we went to a crisis call Hey, we need a screener here. This is you know, and then so it evolved from that relationship, which did not exist Capacity-wise throughout the state of vermont. You have some outstanding programs like hcrs Howard at some other places, but so what team 2 is now it's it's a joint. It's an eight-hour block of instruction there are some prerequisites to to attend it and But during that block of instruction, it's a scenario based training Where you it starts off with understanding, you know, the laws around mental mental health But and then it gets into the responsibility of law enforcement and or the mobile crisis worker So we focus on the safety issues the clinical issues and legal issues Because at the end of the day, uh, you know Police should only be at the scene Just to make sure it's safe Or at least get the situation to a point where it's safe and then introduce that person to the appropriate level of care and support That they need and that is you know So that's really where the mental health crisis worker is going to be so valuable Uh, the other benefit to team 2 and it was very it's I think the whole budget and it's split between department of public safety And department of mental health right now. It's about a hundred thousand dollars And um, so it's uh, it's a hundred thousand statewide statewide And and what it does is a lot of times is law enforcement and mental health can go out and assist somebody in crisis Stabilize the situation and many times Um, you know, that person's going to stay in their home You know with the right with the right support that they may need, uh for mental health side Um, so it really uh, so through that again through that training You get to understand okay right now Person's the person's got a gun and this is where we're at. So it's going to be really law enforcement It's going to still needs to stabilize the safety factor. Um, but but also they can be helpful They can also back up negotiators police negotiators, but they're not going to be put in direct harm's way at that moment So these can ebb and flow the situation and the other pieces So legally do we have to put you know, bring this get eventually get this person? You know do an emergency Mental health warrant which is getting them in front of a judge because they are such an immediate danger themselves or others Or um, you know what this crime has been committed, but we'll deal with that secondarily right now We just got to get the situation to a certain place or mental health can can do their part Chief pete is inheriting three soft positions in a sense There's a social worker who will be in the car along Montpelier and Barry is sharing one. There'll be a street person who will be working um with homeless people or Yeah, that one's not We will support that position. That's not a Montpelier police department position Only that the the the one that we're showing in very city that one is And then the third is the school resource officer, which is half the school district and half the city Could you explain the evolution of the social worker and and what that role is? Because that's something that's being discussed nationally, isn't it the social worker or the sRO The social I'll get to the sRO. Okay. Is isn't that being discussed nationally the idea that there's certain things that Social workers are better at then. Absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of people fall through the cracks and And so one of the things that we do know, you know, as as brian said earlier um You know, so many calls for service have nothing to do with a crime uh in in today's society and It can be in many cases can be best served by having somebody that's with the police because we're gonna They'll have access. They'll see our, you know, what calls we're responding to and and uh you know, sometimes You know, ideally they can have intervention before that person is in crisis So in other words sometimes just checking in on somebody and say let's let's say how you know, let's let's check on on You know on joe today And just that human connection to community and knowing that somebody cares Uh You know, yeah, they might be getting out of a cruiser with us Uh, but that may for many people that may be all of us in the world from them spiraling into a crisis later that night Where they might want to harm themselves. So now you're you know, now you've got a couple police officers and an ambulance Um, and it's really to uh, you know more target. How can we best help those that are kind of falling through the cracks? And if you if you look at it, you know again talking about the historical of it and the funding of it but when you look at uh access to health care when you look at, um Governments being forced to the mantras do more with less. So you're cutting funding at different places and you don't have Uh, you don't have proactive opportunities to find someone in crisis Or who may be on their way towards crisis and now it's just in a reactionary mode So now when that person's in crisis and they're dealing with something with their families Now they're calling 911 for the police to come deal with the situation. So as as social services kind of did this Uh calls to 911 did that and now that's what so it's a best practice at looking at putting social workers in there because The only opportunities or options we have is law enforcement is Do nothing Or arrest somebody essentially that's it And you're going to call a police officer to that situation And those are the only tools available or involuntary hospitalization You put them in the hospital as they're meant to be a danger to somebody else or themselves Or you ask them if they go voluntarily that's it And uh, so when you have an embedded social worker You have the opportunity the the social worker to reach out to community resources To try to work to make sure that this person whoever's in crisis Has medication if they're taking their medication and if they're going to counseling sessions and they're getting different opportunities So that we're not coming back towards crisis situations When we're in a crisis situation, it's not mental health related, but is marital volatility Is there an evolution on how we're dealing with domestic? I think the evolution is is in understanding Um law enforcement agencies partnering with uh folks who do Uh domestic violence crisis on a daily basis partnering with uh with those organizations and learning from them So like for example, one of the newest things that we're talking about in law enforcement Community is that you look at the eyes You look to see if there's evidence of strangulation because we know now what strangulation can call strokes It can cause a lot of different problems. So the things that we're learning from our partners in domestic violence That we apply towards the investigative avenue but also and looking at how domestic violence tends to play out the cycle of violence And where law enforcement can come in and handle the situation With respect And understanding and empathy of what it is, you know So um the more that we know about all the calls that we're dealing with The better we can respond and serve the people we're sworn to protect Tony given the pandemic and people stuck in the house together Given children in the house all the time given financial uncertainty. Are we seeing domestic? Violence, you know in my pillar. We haven't seen any noticeable spike However, that I know that the state's attorney Roy Tebow has seen as you know has seen that spike in the county in terms of domestic violence cases and then also Back in february the fbi put out Basically a informational bulletin that went out we sent it out to The school districts, but the other concern now is with all the kids at home. They're all online Is also making sure that You know helping Both both schools and families have resources to help deal with exploitation concerns child exploitation Because of the internet So those are some of the areas that Are certainly are of concern regarding Both child exploitation and as well as domestic violence, you know because of the the new pressures and And and the challenges that COVID-19 has brought Brian mentioned the school resource officer How long have we had a school resource officer? Half of it is paid for by the schools half of it is paid for by the city that position Yes, initially it started off as chief white had a cops grant which is a community Or a policing grant was a federal grant To cover the first the SRO that we had which was mark moody And I I'm thinking that was around 1996 somewhere around there And that's what started the program. It is it has evolved Considerably and for the past five and a half years Matt nizley was our school resource officer and and one of the things that we're very proud of With our unique relationship With you know with the schools and the community is that it really provides You know, there's one piece of a holistic approach to making sure that one our schools are safe number two when Children are struggling and it could be a variety of reasons. There could be again domestic violence in the home There could be substance abuse poverty You know, I will I will say I know from my conversations with mark You know, he paid for very quite a few lunches in his day and things like that and You know, just just you never know what a child is going to be struggling with so Um And the other piece of that And why I think that the the link is so important to the to the police department Uh, not everything happens in that child's environment. You know while they're in school So So when the officers go to a call for service and they see something That's concerning or you know, they have a bigger picture To help support that child or that family whatever is needed. So it's very very valuable in that regard And we think I mean prior to that, uh, you know, when I was a kid, there used to be a juvenile officer Uh, somebody because you know, the laws are very specific around schools Our children rather. Um, so this is a this is a new evolution of that I mean, we're really against more of a holistic approach. They wear different uniform. It's not even the same uniform It's a little softer Uniform and the other piece of that unfortunately is that we're still Have to have a national problem of significant school violence Uh, you know last year, uh, the you know, Montpelier school says I'm adopted Alice, which is a Lockdown form counter and escape You know, just kind of a simple more common version of a run hide fight Uh, to make sure that our we have a good system in place both with our faculty The students age appropriate of course in that training and and also the fire department and police to make sure our schools are safe because Um, you know, it would also in the physical security. I mean things that androlerosa This, you know, the the the architect and the the facilities director for the school We make sure that, you know, we have access controls and things like that So it's just everything is making sure that um, when you drop your you kid off at school that it's You know, you want to be the safest place that they're going to be for that day Well, I think um, there's a national dialogue right now to pretty much tear up anything that's related to a police department Um, and I think that's uh, I understand the emotion behind the the conversation But I think that's unfortunate. Um Things that we've done as a profession, unitedly as a profession. Um, and um, but we have to remember The good of the situation and um So I look at an sRO as uh, as the opportunity for You can't we're all dealing with limited resources. You can't catch everything all the time So my question to folks, um, that are considering something like pulling an sRO would be how many layers of safety do you want for your children? And uh teachers aren't going to catch everything school counselors aren't going to catch everything Um, it's unfortunate because there's a lot going on But you have one more insular layer Of somebody who cares and somebody who wants to be there and somebody who wants to to to um to help children to help our kids And I think um as long as we understand and we have clearly defined roles and actions of what it is that we're supposed to be doing Within law enforcement within a school counselor within the teachers within an administration itself You have a you could have a very robust system and in here in Montpelier the system's working And uh, so I think we just need to make sure that we we stay cognizant of it and we stay on top of what it is Our training needs to be and what it is that we um as a collective team as all stakeholders who care about the safety of our children are needing to do to move forward Both police chiefs This is vermont low level adult drug use marijuana use. Is that prioritized at all in this town? You can grow a few plants and use them yourself. Do we does our police spend a lot of time on We do not If I can just real quick our biggest challenge with that is just we you know, we still lack You know an effective way for roads, you know, if you're operating a if you're not operating if you're just not operating a vehicle It's not a priority at all chief Pete. I just say that our resources are limited and uh, I think that we're more interested in focusing on The people who bring the poison into the community Rather than chasing after the people who may have addiction issues and need help with something I have one more question before you retire after tomorrow What challenges does chief pete have what what's up the road for him that you would say is is his challenge his principal challenge his principal challenge is is going to be um You know taking a step back and once we kind of see where You know my pillar wants to go financially and prior taught in priority wise Where the legislature is going where congress is going with a lot of police reform and and how It's a very strong department and we have strong community support But it's going to be navigating. What is the outcome of those? Please please chief pete. I want to ask one. What can my wife and I and the rest of mumpil you do for you? um You've done everything people this community have already done it. It's um my wife natalie my daughter gabriella We feel so welcome here and um, it's not a It's not a facade. It's actual real. There's a sincerity here that just that brings a sense of peace And we're just enjoying our time here and the only thing we could ask for is Me personally professionally Would be just Let me know when i'm doing wrong. Let me know what i'm doing right so i can continue to uh To serve because I take that oath extraordinarily seriously Before I end I just want to say on behalf of all of you who are watching this Thank you very much for years of service in mumpil. You're tony. Thank you It's appreciated by everyone who's watching this And I appreciate you're watching this and I hope that you'll watch the other shows because they're really good as I go through my plugs And um, thank you so very much. Have a good evening