 What's up everybody once again it's brand man Sean and as you can see once again I have a very special guest many of you may know this guy's face and if you don't know you're going to get to know him and I'm sure you'll be seeing quite a bit more of him. This is Gens the Guru a digital marketer for a lot of indie artists that's his bread and butter at least as you will know it particularly on Instagram that's probably what you've seen this guy if he looks mirror to you so what's up Gens? I'm doing great man you know I'm glad I you know came across your content got to connect with you you know I mean you're somebody out here in the space giving a lot of value you know saying educating people because you know they definitely need it out here you know for sure for sure man and I see how you're moving how long have you been doing this digital marketing thing for yourself? Being honest I started teaching myself in 2013 you know so from 2013 you know I was experimenting with different traffic sources for the most part you know I mean and it wasn't until like 2000 late 2015 I said you know what I'm gonna lock into you know mainly like the Facebook IG sort of running ads whatever because before I was more so focused on like media buying buying banners spaces like that and I realized that Facebook and IG's has similarities to media buys but a little bit more effective because you know the targeting system whatever you know I mean so I started you know I had theories here and there about you know using Facebook ads to you know promote music for the most part you know I mean so I had somebody who I came across they put me on the spot one day and we just took it from the theory mode to making it realistic I mean because a lot of you know when I was coming up I was dealing mainly in like you know different issues within the online thing so we seen a lot of you know miracles happen on that and you know I mean how you could basically you know make content perform better with ads whatever you know saying but we talked on my short form whatever so I took it to like long form videos and stuff like that and you know getting the point where we're getting like mad views for fractions but Penny and it's still like a highly relevant audience you know saying that's the thing that's the most important people get wrapped up in oh god this many views whatever yeah but it's a relevant audience yeah watching it you know me because it was a relevant audience watching it you ain't gonna get no growth you don't got no growth if your business is dying you know me well you're saying wasted money for sure right okay you know if I were to for some reason do not get that that's just the equivalent of performing in front of the wrong audience you know you're a trap rapper and you're performing on a country music scene and why would you expect to get any results they see you but they're not gonna do anything with you at that performance so right exactly and even even if going that broad even if some of the people might you know for your music gonna be so small in that audience it's better basically effective ways to push that marketing so you know you get the best out of your dollar you know 100% so you talked a little bit more about better ads and things in that space what were you focused on were you focused on a particular industry or where they're just like websites or what were you doing well before that whatever it was made me like you know what I'm gonna keep a 100% transparent you know my main focus before then was to like really like understand paid advertising completely I mean so before that I was dealing with breaking mortar businesses things like that whatever but I'll always know my head that I wanted to connect it with music cuz it's like you see the power okay cool I got guys who are you know bringing a it could break 30,000 people to a website whatever and it's like to promote an affiliate offer the same swap me seeing that model like wow what if you could do that with music whatever you know saying so that's what made me you know I've always been in business one way or another whatever before I got to online space I was in like some of the major studios in the city whatever like I actually ran a few and you know I came up under some pretty major people within the business too I mean so you know when I step back whatever when I discovered the online actually when I discovered the online stuff whatever it made me go oh okay I've only got to move in a space too heavy like that let me just fall back and learn this thing whatever and then you know saying once you learn how to market without you know how to push people relevant people to certain offer a certain place here and there online whatever you pretty much can make your own dollar make your own thing you know saying so when I came across the whole online thing you know I mean um it just made me step back like oh let me just not be in New York so much you know let me just be on the scene all the time yeah let me money yeah let me just chill in Jersey and figure this thing out for a bit whatever and you know and me you know I'm what's I'm naturally like you know ambitious so I thought it was gonna be a situation where like okay yeah let me just dip off for like six months and I'm gonna get this thing right and I'll be back and make it took three years well I finally got a real handle on it whatever and you know so I've been actively working within the space since like 2016 you know saying um before that I was a hidden secret you know me and people at the labels would have me whatever and should just be going up whatever never like this is God got blah blah you know saying and then I think like around late late 2017 I started creating content you know saying so I still was like I wasn't so back in behind the scenes whatever but I was creating the content whatever and at the end of 2017 I was like you know what let me actually start running ads to myself because I'm over here getting this artist on this label getting this up-and-coming artist too many of you's here you know I'm like let me actually start marketing myself whatever and then you know so late 2017 all through 2018 and now it's like you know that's what people are seeing a growth whatever instead of being in the cut I'm actually put myself in the forefront with content and I'm running paid-out ties and heavy paid-out ties so it's like I'm always telling artists you know the best way to experience growth in your career as an artist is to create consistent content put it for the new people every single day you know saying so you gotta look at how I move and I mean the same thing I'm telling you guys I'm doing the same thing to I'm creating consistent content and I'm putting it for the new people every single day be a paid advertising you know saying you gotta be careful of people who say one thing but they don't do the same thing too in their business you know saying so yeah it's interesting you say that because I know a lot of marketers have that problem where they just have the preference they want they might just want to stay behind scene but I always hear people question how come this isn't bigger or how or this person should do but not you know I'll say this don't a lot of people in the music business I know a lot of niggas man people change your life the snap of a finger and they don't even got a heavy movement on the IG they just be sitting back and watching the same but I know for me in my situation I was just getting middle man the hell out of my head I say cuz people didn't know who the actual source will be a situation where like somebody go to somebody and you know I have my feet for my service whatever and I'll take my feet with her but they didn't charge us got like five bands whatever something like that and up top oh yeah that's only capped off at 40,000 views and I'm like you know we could do way more than the 40 not just leave it at 40,000 then when I find out years later I find out like literally that happened the situation me client came back to me like I gave that guy five bands I'm like you know you told me to cap go over 40,000 and that shit was so light in the ad spend you know say like I could a little you know me so you know that's kind of why I kind of started stepping into the forefront cuz it was getting out of hand man people like taking advantage of just personal leverage I think that's just this is leaving you are leaving a lot of money on the table but yeah yeah so what was like moving on to like these artists right just what's your pitch to artists like when it when they try to understand the value of what you do being honest I don't pitch I don't pitch you know what I'm saying you know it is your I put the content out there I educate you know saying um but I'm not here to convince nobody of anything you know saying like at the end of the day if you don't understand the importance of you know me sometimes people ask what like we don't stand what the importance of put putting your content out in front of new audience every day and growing your your presence whatever somebody can't understand that I don't know what to tell them you know say I don't you know I do a lot of work you know saying like I got like even when I get off of here whatever I got like dammit eight campaigns to set up for the most part you know me so I don't be having time to pitch it just watch the content I put a lot of content out on my Instagram that pretty much educates people through the process you know me and you know a lot of my jewels that I drop on there whatever people taking that and it went on without even hiring me would have to get their own success so it's like you don't necessarily have to even use me just do the work you know saying so I don't we don't pitch nothing to nobody you know me I just put the content out there and then drop paid advertising and it makes sense to the people that need to make sense to you know yeah how do you select artists how do I select artists I know you don't work with everybody I don't I can't touch bases or work with anybody who reaches out to me on well usually being being being honest with which we usually usually I'm dealing with management usually usually management comes to me and I deal with them that whatever what I do with them to people in their business that I know I mean you know I'm dealing with artists could be a weird situation when you don't direct with them because they'd be so emotionally caught up in their process whatever and I'm you know me but usually like I said I deal with a middleman who because let's be real like artists in you know saying lots of times don't have the funding to actually make things happen it's either somebody else in this situation that's controlling it so I'm usually dealing with those people you know so tell me this because I'm so heavy work of artists before directly at some point in your business I have I have a few times whatever um sometimes it was but not too many times it had to go on insane too many times whatever it's because I have a high ticket price you know saying so usually when you have a high ticket price on any item and this isn't in any industry you're gonna have less issues you know saying if anything if only thing the only times I've really had issues if it's when I show love whatever and I say you know what y'all let's just do this whatever don't worry about this just have money for ads been whatever you know saying usually the people who don't have to that don't come up with the funds for whatever the people that you know not seriously supposed to be there's one there ones you're gonna have the most issues with you know I'm asking that about the artists because everybody isn't necessarily gonna be able to work with you right there and there's a lot of people that artists you can't necessarily work with right but there are some people that are still you know working with certain level artists and they were trying to work directly with they might be doing what you're doing might and their ground level and they're just trying to work their way up but like mom there I've there been times where just years ago I might work with some artists and just when I was learning certain things and I want to know your opinion on some of the things that artists can do better or some of the reasons that artists when working with business people and particularly in the marketing space I say this right cuz I know it's a big thing with artists they look especially when they do more publicists whatever like me when I do it go it coincides love you with a publicist whatever but sometimes artists come across a publicist and I think a publicist is a scammer this and that whatever and it's like yo you got to be ready when you deal with these people you know say like you got to actually have things going on like you like like you have to actually have momentum so you can get the most out of it just cuz you have a publicist don't mean that they'll be able to get to a complex in 30 days whatever I mean now if you got things going but headed ahead of time you got momentum on yourself whatever then yeah you can create a situation where it'll benefit you actually you know I mean but lots of times what I see what artists is that they're not ready they're not ready for the for the for the services that they take on sometimes you know saying like maybe the content isn't up the par whatever like promise that you know how many times I had clients come to me and you know we want to run paid advertising I said now you know when you're running paid advertising on these platforms there's certain rules you have to buy to buy whatever you know saying and sometimes you can't be most time you can't run dirty audio you have radio radio you know saying lots of times artists don't even have that you know saying so it's like before you take a step in any type of this business just make sure you have all your ducks in a row you know I mean and and and be serious about it cuz guess what they're gonna they're gonna take that check let me and they go and do their job just cuz it doesn't benefit it in work I how you want to do whatever cuz you weren't prepared doesn't mean that they do a job just mean that you ain't have to shift you know yeah they put it out there they did what they're supposed to do but after that is up to whatever the quality of work that you provided them with yeah exactly yeah and some people can some people can screen better you know I mean they could say okay now this don't you know I mean they can help you get it get it get it get it together along the way but at the end of the day they don't have to it's not their job to do it I mean so all you can do is control you know the quality of your your content and how you present yourself in this world whatever I mean and then you know they'll take that and then they'll make it do what they gotta do you know cool and why does what you do coincide so perfectly with PR well cuz here's the thing right um publicist you know their job is to basically tell a story whatever right so it's like um my bad guy client here but um so their job is to tell a story basically you know I'm saying it tell your story and get it out to like you know reputable press out there to show you me get you an event whatever but the only way it's gonna happen is if you have momentum you have movement you know me so they'll come to a guy like me whatever and it's like so my reason piece of content the biggest issue that artists have is that they release pieces of content and they can't get it in front of a few hundred thousand people a few million people you know saying well you got a guy that could do that drop a dime guaranteed you know saying because we're using the ad platforms we're actually you know we're playing by the rules of the internet you know saying when I was coming up in the online space I learned there's two ways to get traffic you know me organic is just gonna take a lot of time or you know you pay for it you know me paid advertising so I'm a paid advertising specialist because you know I'm you know saying I came up in the space like you know like you know when I was in the studios in the city I remember artists wanting to get in certain blogs and stuff like that and you know people were pitching it whatever but it wasn't guaranteed that you would still get it with the pitch and that person still would get paid because they put the work in the pitch you know say yeah so I want to say and I guarantee and paid advertising guarantee somebody says your gents I had a client who said yo I want to hit a hundred thousand in a week on came aboard we hit that they liked how I felt I said I want to hit another hundred thousand this week boom okay to like how I feel okay next two weeks when I do another five hundred thousand you know saying and as guaranteed and all the relevant audience well with a publicist they can take those numbers and they could show okay cool editor at such-and-such magazine editor such-and-such a platform whatever I mean looking these guys over here they make a movement whatever they doing a thing or what what everybody says that we're well look they just went up a hundred thousand this week right here they got five hundred thousand you know saying you know saying so that's why it go it goes up well because you're I'll create the momentum you know saying we'll get the content scene we'll get a fan base gravitating around you whatever you'll start seeing numbers growing social media and the publicist to put that in front of like you know people who control these relevant platforms and go you know oh this guy's moving and boom I mean so it adds social proof to you so you know perfect so that's why that's why like you know we coincide real well you know me like I'm between me and the publicist man we don't work some magic you know saying we didn't have kids kids go from nowhere to like being like a nominee for like the devil that's something like yeah so with that being said like I want to reverse a little bit to your personal like business and aspirations and what you're doing mm-hmm you got started you showed you were interested in the paid platform you shifted the music you knew you wanted to do that now are you looking to build like a massive company with it or do you or do you want to become build an internal agency or are you running the artist one day like where do you see yourself in the game I got a few artists that I'm helping personally already that already got interest they got situations going you know me eventually I'm going to have a label slash imprint that's just where it's gonna go on that level you know me ironically I started learning um internet marketing because I had an idea for anime you know saying that I wanted to get out there whatever and I actually got to like the top of Cartoon Network and all that whatever you know me but then when I started to yeah but when I started doing the research and I've seen um you know how the rules work whatever like if somebody buys out your idea with TV it's different because on the music side you know saying somebody drop assign you then they'll drop you and it's over you can still go out there and but with TV was like they'll buy your idea and then even if they don't use it they just sit on that shit so I was like oh okay you know me that's kind of crazy I only but then you know at the same time I was learning on our market and I was like okay I could just you know develop my skills sit back for a few years and you know just you know I mean marketed myself whatever so that's initially what sparked my learning to do this whatever I mean just the control of pushing a hundred people here but ultimately when it's done I'm gonna gonna I'm gonna have a label I'm gonna have an imprint you know saying um and uh you know eventually gonna put out like you know those pieces of content that I had in mind of putting back in a debt so I'm just out here paying my dues building my power building my influence and networking you know it's like everyone else yeah exactly put in that work so you can you do your building a machine to do right exactly yeah sure yeah okay so now when it comes to your operation you say you work in times directly with management but what what would you say are some of the important things for people to get to where you are in terms of somebody who wants to be a digital marketer like you are yeah yo here's the thing right you can't duck the hard work yeah I mean you gotta be out here actively learning you gotta be out here actively learning the platforms they'll stay inside of platforms and then doing the work yo let me tell you what it got me to the money quicker if I was you guys whatever you know I mean because you gotta stand I was coming up at a time and it seemed like long ago like when I say 2016 but I started learning in 2013 the whole internet shit was crazy like you know saying the whole idea that you can make a living being online whatever like it wasn't like it is now you know saying so I'm the only one by myself saying hey I want to do this whatever I mean like oh yeah this guy's fucking insane he's delusional you know saying so what you guys gotta do is just learn the platforms for the most part learn the platforms being there doing the work whatever and and not second guessing yourself and doing the work yo wherever you have support or not I mean took me years to muster that courage up yeah you know saying situation that put me it like what I had to like make a move a fucking drown you know saying so so you know I mean for yourself guys were trying to get into this space whatever you know I mean no one's going to put you on you know saying it's not about that whatever you know I mean you just got to get good at what you do and it works when it speaks for itself that's literally all it comes down to you can't duck the hard work you just got to be constantly working constantly learning and and at the end of the day you know saying by doing all this work when noise campaigns you'll start seeing different things you'll start you know I mean interpret interpreting things different you know saying so that's why I tell people all the time it just comes with like just doing the actual work you know I could tell somebody step by step how to a campaign whatever you know saying and that's cool and all whatever but as you start doing it more yourself whatever you'll maybe you'll see different things than I see you know saying so you just got to keep on building it and things are coming together for you guys I mean people don't put enough time in the platforms and actually learning and actually running campaigns you know so yeah that process you're always going to learn something new every time yeah I hate these platforms being honest because they always change it you know what I mean you got still time for it how about uh you use Facebook and Instagram for the most part so do you have anything any preferences about using each platform have you well I use for being transparent I run I run on Facebook IG and YouTube all three platforms so I'm running on Google also too you know saying um but I tell people this you know I mean the most viral platforms when it comes running paid advertising if you want instant engagement whatever it's going to be Facebook and IG you know saying for a while it was Facebook like you're because if the algorithm is crazy people are liking the content and you're hitting the right audience they're engaged with content they'll drop your cost per view and expand your reach you know saying and you do that enough you're running campaigns enough they'll automatically have your audience dialed in so you're drop content and put a few ad dollars behind it and it's going wow I have weird situations where I'm spending like you know saying a dollar a day and I'm getting like 10,000 highly relevant views on the Facebook side whatever and um you know uh so you know and I after that you know me I the IG side whatever you know me it's IG benefits because it has the um you know that Facebook ad platform whatever that's the best targeting system in the planet whatever you know me I feel like for social media platforms whatever you know me and um you know me so you can get great campaigns and the costs will still be relatively cheap relatively cheap honestly being real like the last uh last month or two whatever my IG campaign's been crazy like they've been performing actually better than my uh the Facebook side whatever it's so I'm thinking that they finally starting to refine the Instagram side because before the um rates were somewhat relative like like uh like somewhat like similar to um the YouTube campaign went in the sense that if you get in one center view that's a good place to be you know saying yeah um and I was seeing places where you can get below that obviously but uh as of late that should have been opening up crazy you know what I mean I got campaigns where people are doing like a few hundred followers a day like I mean even on my end I have had days where I spent $50,000 ads and I got like 500 followers the same day you know what I'm saying so so Facebook and IG is going to be the place to get the most you know um you know saying the most engaging most virality YouTube you can build traction on YouTube too with with the um YouTube ad platform just know that the traffic is going to cost a little bit more but however they are mimicking you know certain aspects of the Facebook I'm going to say ad platform and it says that if you're hitting the right audience they will drop your cost per view a little bit too so before you used to cost with you like you used to get like I used to uh be like one center view that was like the lowest you can go I have a few campaigns that are doing lower than one center view you know I'm saying I'm getting like three views for every penny spent whatever I'm saying sometimes four so um but that's the benefit like your Facebook and IG going to be the most viral platform whatever YouTube YouTube is YouTube that like the social proof is through the roof you can't get around that shit right whatever you know what I'm saying and um so you know I mean it's also a good platform there too it's just not as refined as the Facebook ad platform whatever I mean um now if you're trying to make money on the YouTube side running ads oh that's a whole never world but you know a lot of you artists don't like to monetize y'all don't like money y'all y'all like to build cloud up whatever and then we're going to get a label to give us money you can make money the whole way through my eyes you just gotta have a thing in mind you know what I'm saying yeah that's a that's a whole another game that's a whole never conversation yeah yeah yeah okay well and I've definitely noticed that Facebook has really been putting more energy into making IG a lot more like Facebook in terms of the ad system as far as you know before you don't speak about the IG and people think IG is lit now it's not lit right now it's still within its infancy yo they're gearing up every day they're optimizing IG to be like a big money making system y'all like they're making it easier for you to get to the money yeah I mean so it's like I've been telling people for years you know I mean because people have been looking at me crazy when I'm saying like yo man like you know and I'm like yo I tell people like yo start building on Facebook start building on IG and go ham in those directions you know what I'm saying you know you know I mean but then inside me I've been like yo fuck the YouTube side but that's the whole number of things up to me that's all the people about this all the time just people who ask random questions I might run into them whatever why do you feel like so many people or maybe you've not even ran into some of these people but a lot of people feel like Facebook is not a place they want to advertise like they think this is crazy like why they were like oh just IG like why why do you feel like artists that feel like that you know why because they don't know the numbers though they're not looking at the numbers yeah I mean they don't they don't know how much traffic that Facebook has like you know what I'm saying like it's not it's Facebook man you know what I mean because and I've literally taken artists from zero to being offered million dollar deals off of just the book and guess what I didn't have to spend that much ad spend y'all you guys underestimate how much ad spend like brings back you know what I'm saying so 100% like I see Facebook like you said it's just the numbers point blank we get caught up in the marketing branding aspect of just Instagram right we things are so beautiful we got it's real young it's real trendy and we think of it as like the old thing when it comes to Facebook but yeah nah they trippin yeah yeah the numbers the numbers are there all every people are watching so much more video on you on on Facebook but then pretty much anyway you guys say on a platform like YouTube people for the most part go to do research whatever you know what I'm saying you know what I mean so it's a different thing whatever while Facebook you have the opportunity to the audience is there you can definitely hit narrow in and hit that precise audience whatever I mean and now you just gotta slap them in the face with the content they're already there everybody has Facebook the grandmother has Facebook y'all you know what I'm saying so like but yours is a check here's a question for you then right I know a lot of artists don't understand the I the well not even just artists uh even managers they don't understand the upfront money it takes in terms of marketing and improving that marketing aspect walk people through that process how you just can't you're not about to spend three hundred dollars and have a perfectly targeted campaign and no you're not yeah you got you look man look I'm man uh yo when I was learning paid advertising what people I was learning from they used to piss me off because everybody you gotta you gotta be willing to just spend the money and not even care because you're buying data you're never ever like you know what I'm saying you're buying data all the time whatever so when I run my campaigns my mindset is totally different I run campaigns from the mindset up I'm looking for what's not working every single time yeah I want what doesn't work whatever I mean because eventually we can remove that and the only way you can find what doesn't work is by throwing money at it you know what I'm saying yeah that's it you know what I mean yeah I feel man like when you market you really do have to that whole spend money and make money thing is it's down there we're talking about paid marketing and I hope you wait to hear it but it's just a reality of the situation so paid advertising gonna give you the most control most power you've ever had in your life you don't gotta deal with like because check it out there's people out there that won't ever support you they won't throw you on a fucking website they won't review your music whatever but these big platforms they've already did the work for you they've already built their presence online so now you can target their audience without their permission you know I'm saying so you know yeah okay so what do you we how much of the game do you look at outside of just pay advertising do you ever talk or work with managers and artists where you say man y'all should be moving like this outside of just this pay advertising or do you ever think in like the marketing branding aspect man I mean look the thing is this I would say branding is trust you know saying branding equals trust for the most part right so you know me I focus on what I'm that you know saying and what I do in those cases whatever like you know I look for people who are experts in those fields whatever and I just basically point them in directions look so look your look is wrong whatever so look go to this stylist over here you know saying your branding how you go holler this bread this branding expert right here you know saying so you know I push people in in those directions whatever all actually is important because here's the thing all paid advertising is is getting it's creating an opportunity to put that content in front of a bunch of people you know saying but everything before that still has to be fixed like you know saying because you know at the end of the day it's going to make everything you're doing convert higher you know saying because okay cool I'll bring 50,000 people to your Instagram account simple easy you know saying but will it convert into a part where a situation where they're following you you know saying or you know they're buying something from you or you know saying or they become a lifelong fan whatever and that that happens with all the other stuff you know I mean the branding and making sure your shit looks perfect and all that blah you mean so so you know do I focus on I strictly focus on the ad side but I definitely you know while doing that I consult the people along the way to whatever like okay this doesn't look right whatever we need to look a certain way for everything to convert better because all that shit at the end of the day it hopes to add perform better you know I mean like prime example guys right if you walk inside of a store you see a Sony television whatever you know saying when you walk past it whatever you'll know that you're at the end of the day is a high quality product whether you buy it or not whatever you know saying now it's like yo when people come across things on the lines the same thing whatever they come across some hot music okay cool hot whatever right on but it's like when it's whack shit whatever like listen to the word whack too reason why people say whack it has nothing to do with lots of times with your skill you know me it's just something is off and people naturally notice that shit whatever maybe the motion graphic is cheating to me maybe the album cover looks terrible you know saying all that shit all that shit you know saying it affects how somebody you know saying consumes your information for the most part you know and I mean lots of times you're getting the word whack because that other stuff is not taken care of it has nothing to do with how it's just maybe the quality of your vocals aren't popped like it's not you know saying so that's a whole other concept of itself that's the thing man all this stuff works together man I'm the same as you I don't I don't jump into a lot of different areas that don't have nothing to do with me people ask me no man can you talk about mixing the master and yo man can you talk about like nah man but I know yeah we're gonna find experts without we gotta find experts who do that and you go reach out to them and you pay them for that time man you know saying yeah like and this is not not I mentioned that too a lot of you guys I know you you have something against paying experts whatever and you got saying you don't ever have to pay an expert to do anything you know you don't gotta pay me to run your ads you know saying you don't gotta pay him to mix and master you can learn all this shit at your at your own time you can you know but the question you got to ask yourself this right it took me mad long to get here to learn this whatever do you do you want to just pause your career and just okay let me learn ads whatever you know say let me take the next four five you can do that you can do that it's okay you know say but do you want to whatever do you want to take another six to seven years to really learn how to mix and master your content whatever you want to do that or you want to just pay come on guys because listen at the end of the day you know saying we're buying time here yeah you know saying that's all it is you want to you want to you want your process to go as smooth and fast as possible right so guess what what are people who already have experience in this thing whatever and remove that out your way so you can get to the things that actually matter which is creating the content you know saying so just one second cool so and with that in mind by the way you've been building your brand on instagram now on instagram i noticed that you're always posting videos in the content varies is there a particular reason that you don't just post you all the time and that you very uh you switch up your content like everybody has their own reasons of doing things when i talk to people but i want to hear your thoughts on how you your content well here's the thing you got to keep things interesting at the end of the day people just don't like it might look like people just like like come there just to hit see you or hear what the hell you got going on whatever you know when you when you're running at when i mean i can't run the ads but by the way instagram set up whatever self promotion doesn't go too far you know what i'm saying like you mean so so it's like so i give value here in there whatever but you know i also people also want to see a little bit about yourself too i know a lot of people you know saying who are afraid to show who they are online whatever but this is social media this ain't anti-social media you know what i'm saying so you know what i mean so you got to show that you're somewhat human you know what i mean like you're not a robot sitting in the corner writing 50 million lyrics like you know what i'm saying lyrics to death whatever you know what i mean so me personally you know like i said i um i give my one piece of content where i educate whatever but then after that it's like okay cool because at the end of the day i'm participating within the community you know what i'm saying like i can make it all about myself and do content all the day whatever but that's that's boring you know what i mean like i think people who go far far like are people who have personalities of people who show who they actually are so so that you can basically pretty much uh get the people who who who gravitate towards you you you can find them easier you know what i'm saying you you can put yourself and you can repel the people who don't rock with you at all i mean so yeah that's why i do it and is there an artist one one last scenario i really want to talk to you about is there been a favorite artist that you work with or art or artist situation that you work with not necessarily because it got big results maybe it was a challenge but just a particular situation that you really liked how i worked out and why okay well i'll say i really i really like this situation whatever and she's big on youtube right now too when i first came on board she had 25 000 subscribers now she's at 115 000 subscribers on the youtube side you know what i'm saying and a lot of that was coming over from the facebook side being honest the traffic was just migrating over whatever you know what i mean and that's heli smalls from canada torano you know what i mean um she she uh y'all can check her videos out too she she's amazing you know what i mean and um so i i've liked her situation because her and mega man her producer they've always just for the most part just created fly content like they never ever let that be an issue we're gonna create content at the highest quality we're going to you know saying put everything out at the highest quality we can't consistently you know saying and we're just going to pay to advertise and get in front of people and let it what happens happens whatever and they've done a lot of great things and i mean they got a lot of good things in the cut that i can't really talk about in public but they're going to be okay you know what i'm saying and and we they literally put a lot of things together like lyric videos you're like for for a while i didn't even know that they were doing everything you know what i'm saying like i thought it was just like okay you know what i mean they would just go out there and get it done whatever i mean they got people that posted them they make their own videos you know saying um so i i definitely i definitely rock with with her her the most whatever i got a of a few things here and there like but i really like rock with their movement because it with them it was just about consistently putting out content i mean that's how it benefits like and for the most part it was like a lot of communication too lots of times when you work with artists they'll like you know you'll be running up views for them whatever and they'll just like fall back like you know i'm saying with them it was about your consistent follow-up you know saying consistent follow through you know what i mean so i definitely love their situation man and it's gonna be great you know no no no they haven't got a chance to check out heli's mother i've seen like stuff of her here in there but i've never actually got a chance to really dig in yeah and it's crazy now like yo because it's like i said you know uh all the traffic translated she built like a solid foundation under her so now it's the point where we don't even have to run that much paid advertising at all like on the youtube side she dropped the song star dust like like a week guys she's like a 170 something so far we don't got no ads running on that at all right now you know what i'm saying it's just moving on the strength of how it's doing whatever you know what i mean so yep hey by the way would there be something that you wouldn't advertise like in terms of like an artist video or like is there anything that you wouldn't like running that on uh being on this show um i i before it becomes a complete disaster i um i educate the consumer like you know me i let them know if it's it's gonna be something that's super terrible we not gonna run with this whatever but being honest like i said i run i got a high ticket product bro i'm not i'm not cheap you know me so usually yeah when people come to me they shit is you know me it's going to be at a certain level like i've never had a situation where i actually had one guy that she was so terrible but we never actually did business whatever you know what i'm saying you know i let them know when you took it down completely and i don't even think he makes music anymore yeah it's better be honest with people even if maybe they can't find a situation that works for them but at least give you a honest opinion because but you know it's funny how i feel about that too though i won't man i don't discourage anybody for the most part you know i think it's about making it that that make things at the highest quality possible but on the same note we're at a day and age where there's no such thing it's whack really i'm saying the only whack they can be is the quality of the content for the most part because at the end of the day there's an audience for everybody out here you know what i mean it's about basically finding that audience people that that music gravitates towards whatever you know what i mean they relate to it whatever so you know what i mean um so the only whack you can be is is pretty much unprepared you know what i'm saying about having should that like just not up the car yeah you know what i mean like that's it now that i fuck with when you are finding having a hard time finding that audience though right there's some people who have some super niche categories you know or some unknown categories that just haven't really been fully formed yet so it's harder to find their actual their sweet spot have you ever dealt with a situation like that and what it what were some of the things that you might have did other than spend more money right we could always spend more money and make smart decisions based off of data but are there like just any intuitive things that you kind of do man you know what like when i'm running campaigns whatever if i see you see the things i've never had something that was super super niche like that whatever where that doesn't work i would love to have something like that because that's that's uh something that's just always going to make you better you know saying as a market or whatever but you know when i'm running campaigns and things aren't going the way that i in the way i run campaigns too i run i run my campaign super safe too so we're not losing our shirt though that's that's one of how i was taught we're not losing our shirt by throwing globs of money at shit that don't work with obviously we're looking for what doesn't work with whatever we're doing it very slow we're going as slow as scale whatever and then when we hit the right part then we scale everything up for the most part i mean but you know i've got a bunch of different things to work with weight campaigns up whatever you know saying sometimes i'll you know um while running running campaigns on the algae side if it's not if this type of campaign isn't working you know i mean i'll use another objective to wake it up basically you know saying infuse some engagement whatever sometimes i'll do an engagement at on top of video at or sometimes i'll mix a combination of different objectives whatever or sometimes i'll push in certain different regions you know saying so there's a bunch of different things you can revive a campaign and finally get it going whatever i mean honestly being wrote you i love the hard campaigns i mean people think you're going to win by doing the easy campaigns no you win by pretty much you know saying a campaign performance terribly and then you got to bring it back to life whatever but on the same no with that though while they get your skills up whatever you can't go against the market pushback you know saying if you're putting some wack shit out there and the marketplace is letting you know this shit is trash you know saying cool while it's while it's well yeah exactly you gotta listen while it's great exercise for me you know saying because i can still make that bitch work great exercise you know saying i love it yo yeah you're still fighting the comp like you're still fighting the marketplace they're telling you this is complete garbage and it's going to cost plenty on average or there's a number of cities on average i've seen it costs four times as much to push some wack wack content than it does to push hot content you know saying so you're spending a lot of money on ad space whatever that can go to a certain that's better you know saying better uh it converts better whatever and you'll get more reach out of it you know saying so i'm 100% agree man just those situations where i might be talking to somebody and you know they might just be a new artist so like no situation i don't need no money i just might happen to see you we're out somewhere whatever not kind of guide them or check in some of their campaign data and i'm like yo man you you might want to reconsider some things i like i've even heard your music yet necessarily but this response you might want to think about it or at least go back in a lab a little bit anyway i'm sorry yeah it's a thing about artists they take their process very very personal and yo you have the easiest job in the world all you have to do is create aren't they good you know just create so it don't matter if somebody says this song is garbage cool you can go out there and create five more you know saying so create create create get better you know saying it don't take nothing you hear personal that's just that's just what the what the marketplace is telling you you know saying and they're going to tell you what they like from you it's just where you'd be willing to listen whatever and another thing to you guys too when you have something that's working for you right don't decide to do something different yo you know saying lots of times artists will see success in somewhere whatever and instead of staying here and doing it consistently to build momentum they'll go oh that was great i like that feeling right there but let me do something completely different you know saying complete opposite of what i did here you know saying that's the biggest problem i i have right now i'm talking to people who are so hell bent on this whole diversity train like oh i'm diverse first of all i have to clear that noise most people aren't really as diverse as they say when the big artists who are successful and but two like if you're starting from ground zero that diversity isn't going to allow you to build a foundation like man it's it's a lie right it's a super lie the end of the day and i got a few videos i talk about it's on the grand right you're only talking to a select group of people you know what i mean so identify who exactly your message is tell it for whatever and once you do that everything will be easy for you it's going to be like certain artists you notice that yo like it's very easy for them to come up with bars verses whatever freestyles whatever because they know exactly what they're talking to whatever i mean a lot of you guys out here still in the part where you you know your amateur industry so you're imitating what you what you're seeing out there you feel like you gotta talk about this you gotta do that no find out exactly who you are and who your message is telling it to whatever and everything will be easy for you guys you're not diverse no one who's successful in this thing had is is talking to everybody they're talking to a select group of people and then those select group of people are going out into the world and telling other people check this guy out whatever you know what i'm saying you gotta have your core fan base man you know what i mean you gotta have that you can be diverse and different you might be multi-talented you have to touch on different things but in terms of what you do and this is part of things you have to take with that group and i always say if you have trouble coming up with new content and ideas then you probably don't have a good handle on what your brand and voice is in the first place you know i just made a video about that the other day brand identity yeah yeah they say like if you because i was having conversations with somebody they were like if you're wishy-washy because you have no brand identity yeah it's so true you know what i mean yeah you don't know who you're talking about so yo that's how you see certain artists where one a week they sound like a little way and next week they sound like a little pump next week they sound like you know what i'm saying they sound like tukashi and next week they sound like uh the blue face whatever blue faces came out we about to have blue face cones whatever because all they're doing is you know what i'm saying all they're doing is imitating what what what they see out here moving because they have no brand identity i don't know who they're speaking to you know what i'm saying they just riding the wave you know what i mean yeah that's a real thing wave man it's been good talking to you don't want to take too too much of the time it's been a great conversation and i know we can always do this again sometime in the future if it need be but definitely is there something that you would love to to like leave artists with uh or not just artists actually managers other people who who work with you and that you see in the game in terms of marketing what do they need to understand that they typically uh get wrong for some reason it's only two things i'll tell people it's two steps in this thing yeah it's we're going to break it down very simple yeah you know what i'm saying create fly content consistently hey right now this is whatever and put it in front of new people every single day that's it that's it let's keep it super simple fly content consistently new people every single day those two combined up you'll have growth you'll make money you'll become a mega star you're great you know what i'm saying that's it yeah that right that that right there sir is the name of the game um i fear that it's too simple for some people because people seem to like things to be complicated and look for secrets but i hope that clicks in y'all's head uh whenever the time is right so i appreciate that man um once again everybody this is jens the guru if you not follow him him following him already you can check him out at jens the guru uh but that's on instagram are there any other places you would like other people to check you out or anything else you got going on uh oh yeah okay cool so um right now i have of course a viral tribe formula um that's available um pretty much uh what it's two parts where the first part is pretty much the foundation how you build your uh your marketing system whatever you know what i mean how you can control your traffic for the most part and the second part is basically uh right now we're going through like a nine-week uh online class where we're basically walking through the ins and outs of facebook um instagram and the youtube side of things and you know we're going to be going over campaigns and all that stuff you know what i mean and um you're going to find that pretty much on my uh linking my bio on my instagram so go to jens the guru dot com or i just google dot com don't go to my site my site is a little terrible right now i'm really i'm building i'm getting that again but go to my instagram jens the guru you know what i'm saying and you'll see link and bio you can get to everything else you know what i mean especially that course that course is going to have a lot of jewels in there for those who are interested in taking their marketing to the next level and controlling it you know what i'm saying controlling their traffic you know what i mean if you guys want me to actually do your campaign so that's another conversation you can have too that's whatever cool cool so everything you need is on its ig at the guru hey everybody if you like this video go ahead hit the like button if you like it might as well share it and if you're not subscribed you know what to do hit that subscribe to that channel man all right