 585 million Naira fraud allegations. Ti Numbu suspents better edu directs EFCC chair to conduct probe and 2024 budget Nigeria's rising debt profile, a huge burden label, I am Oba Anfis. his plus politics. day to transfer the sum to the budget's account. Marday confirmed that her office did not act on the request. Adu denied embezzlement and stated she would not embezzle government funds. The Economic and Financial Crimes Commission is currently probing Adu's predecessor Shadia Farooq over alesh 37.1 bilion naira laundry. Joining us to discuss this is the Deputy Director of Socioeconomic Rights and Accountability Project, Serap Barista Kola Wole Uluwadari. Kola Wole, good to have you on plus politics virtually. Thank you very much. It's a privilege to have you here. To be very honest with you, I said this off camera and it's worth reiterating on camera that I am one Nigerian who is exceedingly proud of Serap. And to be honest with you, I am one who believes that people like you and your colleagues in Serap should be more celebrated because in the rut that this nation is gradually moving into a thank God for voices such as yours. I hope I have not quite given you any emotional bumps. It's a privilege to say that we are just Nigerians trying to do our best. It's a man-made decision we found ourselves and to contribute to a better society. How is Serap taking office? These allegations galore, these so-called investigations, the very, very horrid and putrid environment, governance environment, how is Serap taking this? Thank you very much. It's not so right at all with these really poached discoveries. We can call them allegations out of time, but they are discovery of facts that are also allegations in the eye of the law. You recall that in 2021, we have filed a case which is happening poached in the case of humanitarian appeal. That was for failure of the village of humanitarian appeal to disclose details of the conditional charge to address the problem with the Nigerians out of that time. That is also one of the real deal that we are taking from time to time against the ministries department and against the government, including the president, about how public funds are being managed, or strength in the entire Nigerian. And that is why we've always said that transversor and accountability are the main law of corruption. So we could have been going on for a while, but much more than this by support is going on across several ministries department and against the Nigeria. But the opacity in the way we ministries department and against that are wrong, is not allowed in terms to do. And that way, you know, perhaps you know, that should otherwise have benefited the Nigerians in various ways. So in this instance, these funds that should help to leave the millions of Nigerians out of poverty. Look at the pages of the creation of the ministry department to push in the effect of poverty, bring Nigerians out of poverty and help Nigerians if perhaps they face any kind of of crisis. And it is different ministry that has been found to have been diverting these funds into private pockets. Anyway, the president is active to the anti-corruption agency. You know, perhaps the suspension is perhaps a positive step. But that is not enough. I hope it's not another act of tokenism. Oh, at best. The law of sexual assault. And that will include investigation by the law of corruption agency, prosecution of individuals with my past and found culpable. And then most importantly, the recovery of these funds. And lastly, to put in place mechanisms that would ensure that these does not happen again. Not only the ministries of money that appears, but in other aspects of government. I think they are going to surprise the extent of these kind of actions that go on same across the government and against the government. To be honest with you, Kola Wole, we are in a situation in the studio now. I wouldn't know. We are having some technical glitches. Okay. Okay. As it is, Kola Wole, the steonics of the presidency, the steonics from ASSO ROC, the minister of information, may be somewhat engaging. But for somebody like me who has been around for a while and for somebody like me who has seen it all, I am not particularly impressed because we have a fundamental problem that is actually predicated on the warped methodology with which we are fighting corruption. Let me give you a typical example. Beyond people like you and your colleagues in Syrup who do these out of sheer patriotism, out of sheer love of country, an average lawyer, an average lawyer, and I am not saying all lawyers, but an average lawyer is ready to be bought at the right price by whoever may have stolen from government with the right post. Why don't we create a system or reform a system and have a system that will reward diligent, important fighters against corruption like you so that when we get convictions out of the efforts of brilliant lawyers like yourself, brilliant young journalists, brilliant young forensic accountants who may come together and form synergies of professionalism to target these characters. They can be adequately rewarded. We may call it whistleblower's law, but the way it was done the last time was so shoddy that what will be your response to the fact that I am speaking as a disillusioned, disillusioned engineer that anything will come out of it? We need you as there are several forms. We can call that social culture and youth and we have done that from the two options in India. There are the legacies and there is the political use which will speak to try to get on and all the other things that are part of the society, that form the society. But much more importantly, we cannot afford to create conversations like this. Sometimes it would appear unnecessary to some people and it is very important. And that is why you will see that the constitution even in the region of section 32 has empowered people like you to facilitate conversations like this. To open the government to account. That is the aim of section 22 that the media and the community bring government to those. It is time by the game of the obligations of the people. We cannot afford to give up. We need to do the works. The same as new to public outcry. The discussions are being investigated, and I want to believe that we do not want that but we want to get Nigerians to have been talking about it. What we need to stop being in interests is about tracing the media. trip నినీలార్నూవారొం ంినిద్ట్గు ధరిత్యేమ్చిత్సంపార్.  grappling w ǧida unfu w ǧixat w We can't afford not to persistently, persistently, all of us, irrespective of wherever, whatever, maybe a station. If we really want a country where we can live in dignity, honour and peace, we must make sure that we articulately fight battles like this. Let me give you a typical example now. Maybe some of us too in the media, maybe we are failing. There are copious laws, bodies of laws, laws and laws regulating practices that ordinarily if these laws were to be aided, we shouldn't be seeing, we shouldn't be having allegations. I must say at this juncture, I need to emphatically state at this juncture that we are not speaking as though anybody has been convicted. We are not indeed stigmatising anybody because she has not been convicted yet or none of the people who are supposedly being investigated are convicted yet. But at least we need to keep this in the public sphere. But having said that, are we too in the media talking to somebody like you and say it up now, we should have the moral attitude to speak your heart. Are we too in the media doing well enough to compliment efforts of people like you to make sure that the click lights are shown or are lit on some of these horrible incidences. Thank you very much. I would think that the basis where I yourself and millions of media can speak on this issue is less about morality. I believe it is about the strategic duties that we have. Those moral issues have been captured in our laws, the constitution being the condom of those laws. And that is considered as the perfect excuse that the citizens should be able to speak to again. And that means that citizens should be in barriers with the freedom of expression that is captured in the present times. It is not only to aid conversations like this. It is also expressed in very often things including going to the polls. When people pass their votes or in the case of political parties, they have taken the expression as well. The basis of why we can do this is not necessarily because we are at the right stand of morality. It is because the laws and powers have been put people in positions of authority either by both, to run the business of the country for a limited number of days. And as to the rules that the media has made, I would say that the media has... If you bring this back, you will have any conversations as you see. And that is the importance of that duty. What needs to be done more is for the people, the majority, the mass of the young to understand and be able to act like we are doing now without that narrowed prism of politics, private religion. I want to assure you that the average maintenance can see the facts. Especially the beach. For more often than not, the sentiment of private political religion that has divided up for several years appear to improve that ability to update with its rights and with its growth. And that is because we will not be able to achieve that critical mass of people saying enough, we need to stop this. And that recommendations like this are not affecting the effective attitudes up here. We need to continue. Also we have that because of the genuines who understand, who come to that understand it, that these good governments in religion are nobody. And I do think I would say that the media is trying to bring the context of fixes the economic challenges that we all face. Basically the media, the media is trying to use the economic challenges that the media is trying to complement the thoughts of people right here. And people from the religion, if you have anybody who is able to clear this broadcast, you won't call in send messages, you have empowered them by doing that. Otherwise they might not have a voice. You wouldn't think maybe I give them some time to learn. Having spoken to the helicopter picture, legalistically, constitutionally and indeed morally, I think it's about time we visited what are the specific measures that Sarah is perhaps taking on this allegation and the putrid allegations are preponderating now in that particular ministry and indeed across ministries, departments and agencies in view of the paradoxical circumstances we now find ourselves in the backdrop of Buayri's government or administration that we thought was an anti-corruption fighting or corruption fighting administration now that we get into here some very lurid, from the central bank to the presidency, the very lurid. What specifically is Sarah doing in this respects? Thank you. I do recommend that people put themselves in the better position to collectively bring the pressure to them. So again, I take the question with an example. What is the motivation behind the president's action in sustaining the minister? I do not think it is equal to one person's spoke and I do not think it is equal to three person's spoke. It is equal to the ingenious three great persons in their millions are speaking about this and then they are giving this. And that made the presidential act. Does that not show the power that the people have? The laws are not perfect. The law of public procurement has its job well caught up in the public procurement act. And to bottom this part, people they are trying to get out of the tradition that created the regulation well ahead of these incidents. They think clearly, I think that section 713 of the regulations that public funds will not be paid into private accounts. But we cannot say that this is happening because there are no laws in terms of procedures. No. I'll be even that those laws are not perfect. I do not think this is caused by actions of laws. It is the impunity that has prevailed for a long time that has allowed this function. And that impunity is also backed up by a lack of political ways. From the eyes of it to the land, the president. To inform the law against the good that has found conflict with the past. And that is why we need to continue this knowledge to encourage the ingenious to continue to speak the understanding needs of the system to speak. But I cannot recommend now that the public procurement act should be amended to accommodate this kind of thing. It is already. And we do not only recommend regulations from time to time that cover this kind of business including emergency procurement that are very important. So this is not a public fund that has no laws in terms of regulations. These are important. And I would think that this is going on for a while. But again, people are not Let me wrap up by asking you to respond to this. We don't seem that those who are in government have perfected the art of kicking the can into the long grass by just giving us the kind of aesthetics that we are getting now. So spend the minister called the EFCC machinery to investigate and this will last for a couple of weeks and months and the public glare will be taken away from it and just like the so-called the former account and general's case a couple of months down the road one EMEA or one Uber or one OB would then give the person chieftain's title. They seem to have us in their psychological pocket that don't worry. They will blow grammar. How do you want to close on that? It is really bad that we have gotten to this point where a lot of people are missing it in the democratic process. And I want to believe that those in positive authority given the president is aware that this is very good it is not a good sign not at all. And that is why the president in different terms must not see these actions that just another I really hope it's not another opportunity to keep the people quiet and then things will go on as usual. We are approaching the deputy director socio-economic rights and accountability project. We really want to thank you. Thank you so so much for all the people like you do for the preservation of sanity in our society. Thank you. Thank you very much. We go on a short break and when we're back it's a second segment of the show. We'll unfold.