 Just keeping, again, keeping, make their home. Well, I think it's becoming more and more apparent that a lot of people are aware of the fact that we need to be more conscientious about trying to preserve our landscape, because it's, you know, somebody like me in the business I'm in, I see it disappear more all the time. And it does have an effect on me, and I worry about it. I'm trying to keep my property up there where I live open. I really love the wildlife that I see every day there, you know? So I appreciate it. Blast name there. I'd like to ask her any questions or have any comments. Hi, Linda. This is Mike Barr, and I served on the Conservation Commission, including being chair for about eight years. So I thank you for submitting your name. The question I have for you, what do you look at as, I know conservation, it's a balance between development and, you know, economic development and conserving our resources. How do you look at that tipping balance? Do you look at yourself as being, hopefully, not a preservationist? Because I know that's something that we're concerned and want to be able to keep economic vitality while keeping, you know, our town beautiful and open to various, you know, natural resources. You could comment on that. I think I have a fairly effective. I am a very strong environmentally minded individual. I also realize that we won't have a town if we don't keep it economically viable. And I do think there are ways to accomplish both. You know, in town it's actually that opportunity for conservation, not that that would happen. But, again, I really think... Any other comments or questions? Go ahead Linda. No, I'm just... PRD or PUD, what do you want to say? Oh, yes. Sounds like you got a dog heckling you there in the background. If somebody would like to make a motion to prove her coming on board, you could let her off the phone. Is there a motion? I make a motion to approve Linda Gilpin for a four-year term on the Fortenbury Conservation Commission. Okay. Is there a second? Okay. Can you second it? Any other discussion? Hearing none, seeing none. All those in favor to approve Linda Gilpin for a four-year term ending April 30th, 2024 for Conservation Commission, please say hi. Welcome aboard Linda. Appreciate your time. Now the work begins. Okay, Leaf Peepers Race. That must be somebody else that joined us on the phone perhaps. Is there somebody there? Somebody else is on the phone I think, but I don't know if it's the Leaf Peepers people. Nat, Linda, are you still there? No, Nat, you're there. Did you have a dog? Okay, then somebody else must have been on the phone. Is there anybody else on the phone besides Nat Fish? So we'll bump that one out in case they happen to call back. So it's still just you Nat on the phone, correct? I'm here. Okay, so we'll jump ship on that item. Do I have a Leaf Peepers Race? Yeah, is there somebody that? No, it's just the Race Organizer, that information I shared with you on the Leaf Peepers Race on October 4th, the race route is the exact same thing as last year, and he's just looking for approval. I thought he might join us, but... Oh, okay, because I was just going to bump it down to the schedule until they... He's just looking for approval for the same route they did last year. What was his name? I don't remember. Oh, hold on. I got it. Will Robbins. It's the old route before the construction. Yeah, I was just going to go through another couple items here to give him a chance to chime in. If not, we'll move ahead with it. Did he say what he was calling? He didn't say. I copied him on the agenda. Okay. I thought he indicated that he wasn't going to participate unless he needed to. Oh, you think that's correct. Representative to Vermont State Police Community Advisory Board? Yes. So that's a position that, you know, there's a community advisory board for the counts that are serviced by the state police in this region, and Mark Mateer is the current representative from Waterbury to the advisory board. And he has evidently told Carol about that. He's not interested in continuing, right? Correct. So I don't know if anybody on the board wants to take that position or if you want us to advertise it. It should be somebody who has some connection. Mark was a select board member when... Well, he may have been appointed to this position before he was even on the select board. I can't remember. Could be. He was. Yeah. So, anyway... Do you otherwise advertise for that? That's up to you folks. So, Nat, did you hear the conversation? I am listening, yeah. Okay. Bill asked if there was anybody on the board that was interested in perhaps taking Mark's place. So I guess I'm repeating that. I don't have a lot of policing. Oh, my dad was, you know, in law enforcement, so I do know a bit about law enforcement. I've worked a little bit with the state police more on disaster kind of stuff, but I would be willing to do that. Is that a year-to-year term, Bill? Or is it... I think it's a two-year term. What's involved? I don't know. It's either one or a two-year. I'm sorry. They meet. Few meetings a year. No more fits every month for every couple of months, and they just... This is for community. We are a different relationship with the state police than we did before. When this first started, while we had its own police force and the state police covered outside the village, it was just a means by which the local communities could engage with the state police, talk to them about issues that are of concern in the community. The state police can communicate back and say, these are the kind of things that we're doing. And when Mark was the representative, and I think Everett Coffey was the representative of them even before Mark. That's what I was thinking of. You know, they would meet, and on occasion they would come in and talk to the select board about what they discussed at these meetings. But if you were at it, then you'd be at the select board meeting. Make a report to the select board. You would just report back every once in a while, yeah. In fact, I recall Everett was a little upset about the fact that he didn't get that position there and actually tried to get the board to allow two new positions to Everett Coffey. And we, for some reasons, we just decided to stick with one representative. It's a two-year term. And is it up? Is Mark jumping ship earlier? Or is it up now? I think we do it through April 30th, like everything else. So whoever, so if Mike takes his place then he will just complete. No, Mark's finished. The rest of Mark's term. No, no, Mark is done. He timed out. His two-year term has just expired. Oh, that's what I asked. Yeah. Okay, so it was, okay. So, Mike would be taking the new two-year term. So that would be a two-year motion. Would that be ending in 2022? Do you know anything? Yeah. Do you know what days they need by any chance? No. I'll just find that out, unless I don't think there could be a conflict with some other board meetings. Give it to Mark and call. Yeah. Okay, I will. So, yeah, sure, Mark. Yeah, I'll make a motion to non-state police community advisory report representing water. Do you hear that, Matt? Mark made the motion. I did. Okay. In a second. Okay. Any further discussion? Hearing none, seeing none. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, next item on the list is to discuss inviting a resident to a future meeting to talk about the Harwood Union Supervisory Board Issue, the Harwood Union School Board. Matt, do you want to lead that off? I think that... Yeah, so, a couple of conversations with Chris and I believe Katie put about this as well. There's something, you know, that we can at least advocate. Again, I don't know how much power we have in this circumstance, but I think it's like any disgruntled citizen takes care of our time. You know, we just have to be very honest to have him maybe give him a certain time frame on, you know, what he's discussing. Yeah, that's something that you have to make a change. Because this is a little similar to what we discussed previously with Scott Holder. You know, he did that same thing, but, you know, he was concerned about some of the activity. You know, I would certainly, you've just said, I'm willing to listen to anybody, but with Pete, obviously, we'd want to put a time limit on his discussion and probably let him know ahead of time that he'd be pretty unlikely that the Board would take him. Could or wouldn't take any action. So I guess... Excuse me, Nat? Nat, this as well. So you opened this by saying that the administration at the school is shutting him out. There are four four Waterbury residents who are directors of the school. Has he made his case to them and has he gone before the school board with this issue? I mean, I, you know, I think I understand his issue, but his issue seems to be with the superintendent and the superintendent works for the school board. Yes. He understands that relationship and in one of his emails to me, he did say that he had requested... Yeah, I just received an email from one of the school board members earlier here before I got here tonight, citing the provision, general provisions, Title I general provisions, Chapter 005, common law general rights that he could pursue. It talks about any person agreed by the, or denial of the request of public records under the sub-chapter may apply to the civil division of the Superior Court in the county which the complainant resides or has his or her personal place of business and it goes on talking about more stuff. So, you know, I'm curious to know what possible gain he could come on this particular issue would come from him coming in front of us. I mean, did he try to indicate what possible help we, by coming in front of us, what possible, how that might help his cause? Yeah, if you want my personal opinion. Let's hear it. I think he's trying to gather support. He is feeling... Something to say. He is feeling black, being able to talk to anyone that could be in a position to all of the slight flaws of all the towns in the Harwood Unite, Harwood Unite School District. That would be way too slight for him. So, I think he's reaching out for for anybody who will not agree tonight, well, I mean, I said anybody can call in, but since you brought this subject to me and asked if you could have an audience with those I had felt that it's only right to have a discussion before I start my neck out, to check a little bit. I think he's trying to gather people to listen to what he has to say and maybe something will come of it because he can tell us what's happened. Yeah, I think Katie's got a little bit to add to this perhaps too. Well, I was just going to say this was a big thing last year and it was a big fight last year with the school board and the administrative team and he spoke at several of the school board meetings. He got cut off. He asked for multiple meetings with the administrative team. He saw other means of getting information about the whole grading process at Harwood and went to like a mathematician at a different school to like back his work and I think I agree with you with your personal opinion as he's just trying to look for backing. I think he's already gotten the information that he needed and I mean I think he had some of that information all along that he needed for those grading discussions and I think I mean I haven't heard him speak at any of the Harwood meetings recently that he's still upset over this cause. I think it's just I don't know I think he just wants a reminder there that there should be some hesitancy from public trust in the administration for the district and what information they put out so I think that this could be for his personal as well. Before we move ahead to you any further sound like a couple other people might have called in is there anybody else on the phone? Only from the Valley Reporter just tuning in. Okay. There was two chimes so I didn't know if there were two separate people but perhaps not. Okay. I mean Pete's going to have a tough time with me because I'm so frustrated with the way the education system is modeled right now that you know it's going to take a lot more than what in my opinion what he's after to improve to improve our education system. So I guess I'll ask the other board members how they feel about happening in front of us whether or not if we should grant him the time and if so we probably limit into X amount of time. I'm struggling with this a little bit. I think coming in and talking through the public point in a meeting to present something but if we open ourselves up to discussing issues that are really that we don't have then start filling agendas of a thing that we can necessarily vote on or take action on I'm a little concerned on that. I do want to hear it personally but when we put it as a board item that seems to be a little and this is a little before I was hoping maybe Bill would have a comment on that but that's fine I mean I'm not saying that he might not have a case I'm not saying that it's not a worthy thing for the town but as a board I don't know if we I don't know I'm a little questioning whether or not I support putting it on as an agenda. So maybe it's worth letting him you said he's pursuing one of our representatives here with this problem at this time yeah? Yeah he said he had met with Tom and yeah why is your name escaping you right now? Theresa Theresa good morning he met with Tom and Theresa this morning and is pursuing some I guess I think you need to be careful I think there's two issues here and Katie spoke to one of them quite eloquently actually the first issue or the first thing that kind of bothered him was that there was a policy decision made last year about moving from standard letter grading to some other kind of proficiency grading. That's a policy decision and the school board made it he didn't like it he didn't think it was good he didn't think that it was I don't know all the reasons why he didn't like it I don't have any kids in school when I read it I said I don't like this because I'm the type of person who likes to know where I stand and I like a pretty saw that A through ABCD F system was widely understood by everyone and so he didn't want them to change and they did anyway so that was where his first problem was and that's a policy issue that he has with the school board and there was an election that just happened if he felt strongly about it he could have run for the school board he could have asked people who were running to deal with this issue to revisit it whether he did or not I don't know but that's the first issue then the second issue is that he feels like he's being followed by the administration that and you know he's suggesting that they have information that he asked for they said they didn't have and so now he's got an issue with the employee of the school board the superintendent there was a call-in show that he thinks that they told the radio station not to take his call whether they did or not none of that is anything that is really the town's business and I feel that you'd be really you know opening up a potential for a lot of other people who have issues with things that don't have to do with us we've got our own issues to face and I just I just think that you ought to be careful about doing this kind of thing in this kind of form if you want to go have a cup of coffee with them and listen talk you know that's all great but I just think you should be very careful about what you do here because it gives the impression that you're going to then do something about it and I don't think there's anything you can do about it so I'll kind of shed a little bit of light on what I thought about the whole proficiency rating system back when it originally came out that was before I knew anything about it other than what I speculated and I wasn't particularly happy with it I felt like it was another trick by the union to make it easier for teachers to or for the education system to shuffle people through the school system by not necessarily having to be accountable for how the students did perform that was my first thought process back a few years ago when the proficiency standard came out I don't know a whole lot more about it but I do know that from what I understand it's still not a perfect science but it seems to be better than the old system of A through F I think the goal here is to try to be able to manage how kids are doing and pick up on the weaknesses and the strengths and try to adjust that so everybody comes out with the absolute best education that they can I would think that if Pete is headed down the path of talking with our representatives we should let him exhaust that avenue and see where it goes and then if he's for some reason feels he still needs to come in front of the board we can talk about it then and consider whether or not we want to entertain some time for him does that sound like a worthwhile endeavor? I mean could we just wait to see what happens in this case on the way to the light board and see what their discussion comes to as well and that might be sooner but I agree that we'd wait until yeah I mean try to get some response out of the representatives or you know but Bill's right I tend to agree with him we'd have to be careful here we're not treading on thin ice Chris I agree with you for the most part the one thing and I do think he should go through meeting with the representatives first and or possibly again with the school board and then before coming to us I want something very specific from him what we could potentially do for him because what I'm seeing from our discussion is I don't think we could do anything but just listen and I don't know if that's real as Bill said that could be a dangerous you know we're here to listen to you know all residents but I think well you're here to listen to residents about town business this is not the Algonquin round table whatever it's for town business and you have to be careful because you know if you bring him in here and let him make his case then is you know the superintendent going to want to come in and talk to you or is the school board I think it's their business and let them feel with their business so I guess we're going to move on and so with someone is someone going to advise he okay I'm taking the time to chair the board and that's where we stand so we'll jump back to yeah thanks for talking about it we'll jump back to the leaf keepers race Will Robbins have you jumped on the phone by any chance I'm not sure he was going to attend Chris okay so you want to just refresh our memory again for the leaf keepers so he sent information which I sent to you basically sending along general race info the safety plan, race date precautions and the map and it is exactly the same as it was last year he gets a lot of help from sheriffs and the fire department traffic control they expect about 600 people and I also checked with Barb Farr to see if she had any transportation construction concerns and she did not okay and that date was what again? October 4th Saturday or maybe Sunday I don't know the only thing that I would I know this is a fairly good time in the future from the memo it sounds like there are 600 runners and 50 volunteers depending upon where our COVID status is you know I know that there's going to have to be some sort of maybe a plan that's going to involve some sort of social distancing et cetera you know I don't know how races I know like every everyone knows this weekend the city marathon was delayed granted this was happening in October but I think we have to have some sort of a plan that meets you know any governor's social distancing requirements you know a protocol can you remind me did they say they're going to try to do a stage start is there anything to talk about? I was thinking for the memo in front next time we'll be at 9 for the half marathon 9.15 for the 5k not stage other than the two separate races yeah I guess we could just say that because you're going to have to make a suggestion over something that I don't fully know I don't know the governor's office would probably comment on races a lot better than we can so basically you're saying a motion to operate under the same time, same place same route, same everything under whatever guidelines are in place we're not going to approve some of the states that's not going to allow but I think that if it supersedes us anyways we could approve something that the state would say you couldn't do make that a motion then I'd make that a motion that we could approve as a plan recommended to leave people's half marathon and 5k run on October 4th that it meets any governor's social distancing requirements and other other health requirements is there a second for that motion second any further discussion quick question route and construction no concerns there barb express no concerns I check over there all those who wish to approve please say aye aye scratch is all the slug ward items balls in your court bill ok covid 19 update very much the same as from the last talk the municipal building despite what it looks like tonight is still closed and it's good to see all of you glad to be able to see you you know we'll see going forward how long we have to keep this up but excuse me bill just for a second did somebody else call in please anyway we continue to operate with a um reduced staff working significantly reduced hours there are a couple of us that are in every day bill woodruff and I am here just about every day not so much on the weekends anymore for me but I usually get in around ten until five or six somebody else join us by any chance who might that be my name is Joshua Barnard I'm calling from Waterbury Center and I'm here to just speak about your support for the skate park ok well we're not quite there yet but you just hang on and we'll be there in a moment what's his last name ok no problem Carl and I talked last week even though the governor has begun to allow some retail operations to open I think that I'm going to continue to keep the municipal offices closed for the foreseeable future I don't think that there's anything that the general public needs that we're not able to get them right now it's a little bit more clunky than people would like it takes a little bit longer but we're able to do it and I think for the time being we're in a better position to continue to work as we're working with the reduced staff if we simply open the building then it's going to there'll be more pressure to bring all the employees that work in this building back in here to handle the normal operations and I don't think at this point that there's a reason to do that so the operations that we have going on right now will continue for the time being I'm thinking that the earliest that I'm thinking that maybe widespread callbacks from layoffs may happen is around the first of July that's not set in stone date by any stretch of the imagination but I don't think it's going to be earlier than that and it could be even later as I said the last time conserving cash or not spending cash is kind of important for us right now because we are flying a little bit in the dark I mean Mark knows how much his revenues are off from a year ago and many entities do but we really don't have any clue as to what's going to be happening to us when it comes to revenues until we get into August and beyond because so much of our revenues are back loaded especially those that come from taxes and from large state payments like payment in loop taxes or current use payments or forest and parks lands payments all come October or later so we really don't have a way to judge what's going to happen so we're continuing to try to conserve our expenses to eliminate expenses where possible Bill do you know on the pilot payments what year the money we're getting paid is there a year delay or I don't know for certain the payment comes in October I know the the assured values that they use for the state to value the state buildings that's last you know 2019 so it could be that we'll be alright with that I can try to find out this year but maybe not next year and that's runes and meals the local option that's the local option tax the 1% local option tax the communities that they all collect it it all goes to the state the state sends 70% back to the community that it was collected in and then the 30% is a little administration siphoned off by the state so we might be able to tell how much off that payment would be if there is a year delay right so anyway we're going to try to continue to conserve cash in the highway department we still have 4 employees laid off and 4 employees working 20 hours a week this week or next the 4 that are working 20 hours a week will probably bump up to 24 now that the grass is growing they've got to at least do a little bit of that activities and then they're just trying to keep up with getting ahead of some of the things that they're hoping to do this year we have been negotiating with ST Paving about Paving Maple Street we did apply for a Paving grant that was due Friday we submitted that grant we'll probably hear some time by mid-summer I think it's pretty likely the state won't give any grants and I think it's even more likely that if they do give grants they probably won't give one to us because just what's going on with Main Street right now if we are fortunate enough to get the Paving grant then we'll have to put the project out to bids with these three bidders but we're negotiating with ST Paving right now and they know that if we get the grant that it has to go to bid the library has opened for pick-up so the doorway to the library that faces the parking lot there's a little vestibule there and you go out there so it's got one or two people coming in and they're filling bags and leaving bags there for people to come and pick them up but the library is beginning to start to think about how they might be able to open masks are a protocol that you know when we right now in our office because we're close to the public and we're so spaced apart none of us is really routinely wearing masks but from what we understand if we open to the public staff will probably have to wear masks and the public will be encouraged to wear masks we've ordered some thermometers have they come in yet? not yet we've ordered some no-touch thermometers that the library will be able to use to check their staff and we have one that will have available to us if we need to do that so that's really the update on municipal operations the department heads are trying to cut back on their spending I did get a number of purchase orders from Gary he's spending a whole lot of money the next couple of weeks it looks like but you have looked at your budget you're going to pull back on something so those the things that we did purchase orders today are the stuff that pandemic or not the stuff we have to have the other stuff I'll get you a list of the amount of what we can certainly hold off this year without any real concern and where we're really saving is payroll how many calls have you just going to ask you and everybody around us stow that typically is bombarded with calls full-time department not clear of every city everybody's call line has dropped the animals call line has dropped people just don't want other people around if they can avoid it because there's no activity people are home so the fire is not happening well they still have you can go over to Waitfield and see the aftermath the one from yesterday but overall people are either being really careful or aren't calling for some things that they know they really don't need to call I would rather they call on something they don't know about rather than taking in their own hands and saying I thought we'd be okay but anyways our call volume is significantly lower good well I appreciate that Gary thanks so unless you have questions that's really all I can say I do have a question I haven't heard anything from the governor's office about I know you mentioned the library but I haven't heard anything mentioned about opening up of libraries or anything around the state has there been any guidance? yeah there has been all me the library director has been doing that and you know they and the Vermont department of libraries is communicating quite a bit directly with the library directors across the state and the protocols that they're allowing right now was what I talked about that non-contact curbside pickup basically is able to happen for the past several weeks there's been nobody in the library at all staff has all been working from home doing whatever librarians have to do from home it's been a little bit of a question on my part that I've raised with the library director and the library commissioners but they have reduced staffing and hours over there but starting this week or last week actually a couple of the library employees have been coming in and starting to put together these bags for curbside pickup and that protocol is allowable right now I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned because I've listened to a lot of governor's news conferences and he's been kind of x-na on that so I just want to mention one little thing here you kind of brought up a good point here when you talked about what's going on at the house I was mentioning before the meeting took place there that I was watching a guy speak on a program there on TV there the day about Silicon Valley and the corporate tech world out there and how this pandemic has basically flipped the tech world on its head with the fact that they can now they've come to the realization that they can hire people all over the world retain them longer get more production out of them working right from home and have no need now for these big huge corporate buildings a lot of the big companies like Twitter and other companies are getting rid of their corporate buildings because they've come to the conclusion with this pandemic that they can operate without all that stuff and they're claiming that the real estate market is going to take a huge hit and some of these towns and cities where these corporate entities are are going to be taken on the chin because they've got all these commercial buildings that are going to be empty because of this forced new model of working from home so I'm wondering how much of that same scenario if it's working for the corporate world how much of that same scenario could work its way into the government sector as well whether or not there's any benefits long term there so I just wanted to mention that so I guess we're done with that particular items we'll jump to the summer recreation protocols so Nick is here Nick called me yesterday afternoon was not happy to hear that I was out fishing while he was slaving away at his computer trying to write memos to me but Nick was waiting for all last week for some of the new information to come from the governor's office and then he and some of his key people needed to okay then look at those requirements and measure them against how we have operated our rec programs and pool in the past and see what it's going to look like for the future he sent these memos out I told him go ahead and send them directly to the select board I don't need to read them first because it was already like 4 30 or 5 o'clock that I was talking to him yesterday and I didn't want you to have to wait because I needed to go cut the grass after I got some fish so I didn't send an email to you folks until quite late so anyway Nick go ahead I think the memos speak for themselves your recommendation is the pools going to be closed yeah you can stay right there we'll back at the summer camp so Nick before you start I think we may have had somebody else join us here on the phone as well do you want to, if you're already playing and going through basically what you've got here yeah I can they just do a roll call did somebody else join us just recently on the phone yeah oh ok alright so the guideline released last Wednesday late Wednesday in regards to childcare in the summer camp and we already knew some of them there's going to be frequent sanitizing of materials and surfaces staff are going to have to wear masks social distancing is encouraged but it's realistic their kids are not going to be able to so the regulations are a little bit gray in the social distancing section but the key guideline is the 25 people on that include staff are that's a maximum capacity per classroom or childcare area so our rec building is about half the size of this room that's a classroom so a camp that we usually would have 90 kids at now can only have 25 so that means there's other areas in the rec building so we can't have 25 kids who just said it's staffing kids 20 24 kids at the rec building the Methodist church has 50 kids right now so that would be an additional space fortunately the upstairs it has a back area that the kids can use so we were okay in that facility but it's the kindergarten and the staff and the field that is the problem right now so I listed four options after going through with my staff and calling people around town that were feasible or up potentials option one is no longer available the one I talked today and the superintendent for the schools says that none of the schools are going to be allowed to open for the summer for any sort of programming and these were listed in preference so option two is the ice center can we go back there for one second why is that so I sent an email on Friday to the school superintendent from Caitlin Hollis to the board chair asking if we could use the school for the K-3 camp and said understanding that YMCA's camp called it is already there they used the cafeteria they've got 20-25 campers so I said you know you've got a number of classrooms you've got the gym you've got other spaces could we use the school it would be helpful it's close enough I didn't know at this point that the pool was going to be close so it would have been close enough to be able to walk down to Anderson field and use the facilities there I got an email from Bridget Neese the superintendent this morning she's actually sent it last night I read it this morning and it was kind of a boilerplate email I think it was something that was being sent out to numerous folks who had been asking but the school administration and the school board have looked at the protocols from the governor's office and applied them to their building concentrating on being ready to open for school in late August or September they're concerned that they won't have enough personal protective equipment that they won't have enough cleaning supplies so they said the school is close for everything until school reopens so camp code of the YMCA camp they're looking for someplace else to go right now evidently they're not going to have summer school and they're not going to allow class so that's that yeah the answer the second option is the water barrier center but after Bill and I exchange calls today they're not super enthusiastic about the idea overall might be open to it but it doesn't seem like it's possible just to be clear on that I talked to one of the board members and when I spoke to him this morning he was very favorably disposed to try to figure out a way to allow us to use it I'm not trying to put this on the rink manager but evidently when the board member talked to the rink manager there were some issues that came up as concerns I don't think it's dead yet but they're not they're not in a hurry to say yes, yeah, I think too yeah and they they want to wait a bit more and we kind of make the decision soon about camp question, why? the building's not being used I guess maybe I'm just not understanding there's a little disconnect there yeah it was cloudy the board member was enthusiastic about it but once he called me he talked to the ice rink manager he said they had reservations and that they would want to talk more about it they're not sure the big concern is that somebody is going to somebody using it is going to end up being sick with COVID they're concerned about liability I already told the board member that I was open to trying to indemnify the ice center possibly losing our insurance there but I think the manager is just concerned about well, we're going to have to how do we keep everything clean so that's just the world we're in people are all wanting to go let's open but then I don't want to do that I don't want to do this the liability world we're open is going to us for quite some time I understand the whole thing but what it does when they come to mind for me is I remember a few years back they got into a little bit of financial trouble if you recall we were there for them you know we were there for them before we go through the rest of the options can you talk a little bit about what is the one camp that seems to be the hardest place right now what are the activities what kind of score point are you needing for 25 kids and what's the ideal space look and feel like ideally it's just we've operated the wreck building so a small half the room it's basically a home base so if it's thundering or some sort of weather outside that they have a place indoor that's grounded besides that everything takes place outside so something grass at a minimum preferably a place structure within a radius of a place structure the middle school camp operates out of the church they use the parking lot with the basketball hoop that we bring up but then they come to this field to go to Rusty Parker so ideally it can be very flexible it's just a room like it couldn't be an area in a water race center that wasn't near I guess actually it was near a park but ideally somewhere near the village that can access some of the parks but have a centralized drop off and pick up locations besides that we plan a variety of activities right so except for the ice center we're really looking for more places right yeah could we just put up a big tent well it has to be ground it has to be grounded it has to be grounded in case lightning hits child regulation has to be grounded technically it's supposed to have four walls on it okay I understand just taking the old school actually I was going to give you my suggestions because I got actually contacted there's a conversation surrounding restaurants to work with the 10 companies that are cut out of business this summer so they're actually looking for there's also this state grant possibility that the state will pay for tents to be used for restaurants but maybe you could also find a grant from the state to pay for tents for this but I don't know how hard it is to ground those tents but all the 10 companies are basically sitting with a ton of square footage infrastructure I mean I would have already thought something like that would have already been figured to be grounded simply because there's so many big events and other big events that there's children on those events just as well as there is adults to look back and do it when I first started we looked into that to expand the the camp at Anderson and there was just something with child care with a tent that wasn't then meet the regulations it might have been floor I don't know you can put temporary flooring down I've seen tents that because they have regular doors floors well just so you know there's a guy in town that works for one of the companies that might be the sort of call I know we still set up so like the church we still set up the tent out back there and then we'll hang out there so I might have something to look into at Anderson just for more outdoor space often three was located throughout town so say we don't have another area so we have 25 people at Anderson we would need three more spots that could hold 25 people so Gary's not going to go for this but above the fire station could be one but that I don't really know after that we don't know I talked to you Bill earlier today and I guess Theresa Wood had come back with an idea of St. Andrews St. Leo's St. Leo's Hall that might have the potential to fit it but that was two hours before the meeting so I haven't got an email back from her yet the last option is was suggested by a parent that they would rather have some child care than none at all and so they were saying split the eight weeks into four two four week sessions do the last names like A through G the fourth for four weeks like 75 kids and then 75 kids for the last four weeks they get we lose half revenue on camp but we also have half the campers which means we don't need all the staff to take money on that that's not super ideal I feel like a lot of parents will pull out of that so for more it also means we still need three places right? yeah we'd still need we'd go from 150 kids to 75 so we could use you could use the Scott Hall yeah Hall the other place Methodist Church Basement Methodist Bus we just need one other room are you only looking for donated spaces and then more about cleaning? I don't understand Nick how you can say we already have Methodist Church so we've got a camp that we usually run out of there that has 75 kids a day coming to it so if you split it in half that's 37 so you need we need two spaces for that right so there's 150 total between Methodist Church we have two spots there 25 here you split it in half to 75 kids added staff members being four spaces assuming 100 ish so we just need one additional room with that option it's the least ideal well outside of closing camp it's the least ideal because it doesn't provide a full full job care and we might lose more campers I might have a space you could use that's why I'm just wondering what your plan is when you go to someone and use their space it depends so we work out an agreement with the church that we'll do some of the actual cleanings throughout the day it can be flexible it doesn't necessarily need to be donated but it definitely can't exceed a certain number in the last option it's the worst but no summer camp it's possible that's what it comes down to we can't find a safe spot for everyone when is the camp supposed to open June 22nd then it goes to August 14th so so important for like this is an option for child care for people for getting back to work I can't imagine we can't figure this out it's got to be enough spaces around the town I mean flooded with emails past two weeks looking for an answer because if they can't get this they need to find another option what size spaces you're looking for to see if anyone has not yet the regulations came out I wanted to get this to you guys see what you guys don't work with the idea that we're going to explore St. Leo's all trees it gets back to me but yeah that's the update it would be most ideal if we could have it all under one roof the Methodist church is one roof and then for that one so anyway that's if camp does get canceled we would shift focus to our mini camps which are typically 20 or less anyways and mini camp is like a software camp or a science camp and usually long sessions I would anticipate the ones that are still running with Phillip with big camp typically there are at least a few field trips there's going to be no field trips you can't put kids on buses and then I'm recommending the pool not open this year we're going to lose too much money on it and just the right now the the lack of specific guidelines for the pool as far as how the pool can be in there technically as myself and other directors around the state view it if the pool were open today 10 people including the lifeguards would be allowed in that Pennsylvania so the state I call the state today they are closing their pool up at Button Bay which is big when they projected they were going to lose $300,000 on it this year so I think you're going to see a lot more pools closing kind of with stock right close to theirs I'm sure Essex might be next that's my recommendation I'm going to be difficult to run and run too much of a deficit quite a conundrum just our new lives okay if that's all you got then we'll jump to the next item excuse me Chris what day did you say the camp started June 22nd so I think the slide board's next meeting is the first of June that's the latest we can make a decision about camp I'll give you something to come up between now and then give us the better option if we can find a place to do it we'll move forward get those places ready to go secured and we'll just send you an email saying we figured out a way to have camp if we're not going to have camp or if we can't find any place on June 1st we'll be here telling you we have to cancel it so that's how we'll approach it I didn't really think about looking at how you can make a tent for it one of those tents you're not going to use I think you'll be able to rent them for pennies on the dollar and it's a good way you know people use it all the time have events in tents and I don't understand the whole browning I always thought that the tables with the ties those are grounds but maybe I'm wrong, I don't know enough about that maybe a licensed electrician can help what if the kids holding on to the ties right, I think you can put a state which acts as a grounds I know I'll put up some of those tents for meetings and I think you can put those with grounds I'll call the the agency of education this week just to get clarification I'm sure we'll be able to tell you what's required for grounding those tents but it may be more than just grounding the size need to be the hard cover cases and that kind of thing I haven't met the auto parts store it's 3500 square feet in town okay, that might work which auto parts store this is your auto where K-COP is and I don't know if that part of your room is over the red so I'll recuse myself off of those two spaces do we need any action on the pool I have to get something out I'm still wondering if they're going to operate and I have to let staff know I think the select board if you have questions ask them but if we're going to close the pool it's going to be the select board that makes the motion to close the pool and not to sleep directly by delaying that decision what costs are incurred and is there a concern about the rehiring of staff because I know that it seems like June 1st is the next governor I guess he's referring to turning the faucet back on but I know today's rule is 10 but is there a number that he could say June 1st to close the pool a few days ago and I don't remember I have a representative from the state who comes on and gives us a preview of what's going to be released he's hitting at 25 the next number Bill and I talked even if it was 30 it still doesn't make sense no camps are going to be coming this year which are big daytime users there's a lot of factors as far as staff the staff has been reaching out consistently wondering what's going on I have a contingent plan to keep some of them on if we close the pool I'll be able to get a special use permit to do our swim lessons at the reservoir those are in groups of 10 or less anyway but the other staff would either jump ship if the other places are opening up or find other jobs the pool is just going to be a nightmare I bet you a lot of parents would be very afraid to send their kids to the pool I don't know as much as I think pools are important I think maybe maybe pull up a plug maybe we need to wait for another meeting we can wait we can wait we can wait that's fine I just need to get swim lesson registrations that I have and I will post a new schedule for what the state parks allow me to do at the reservoir so I would if you would rather wait what I would suggest that you do is make a motion to allow staff to make arrangements to have swim lessons at the watery state park we're talking about the 100 side allow us to make those arrangements and make that deal and we'll probably be indicating that it's looking like the pool is going to be closed but we're going to make a final decision so wait a second do you want to repeat that again I got it Mark so moved it is there a second any further discussion could you have the question Katie I was just going to say I know you probably want to keep all the camps down here but there might be other options in the center that connect to the park and in the seminary building if there's any space available yeah one of my current records suggested that in the fire station I said that fire station is not big enough for kids Gary would not want them in there it might work I don't think it's open right now I've been by there a couple of times listening signs on it but that's an option it just makes it a little bit harder for parents to drop off they're used to dropping it off and then we have little logistics I mean I think it's a reasonable thing to think about but we do Nick is still working to try to figure out how the summer feeding program is going to go because so many of the kids in our program get lunches and the like so that's being all worked out that's down here too but we'll we'll keep all options open and I know Nick has been working very hard to try to figure out a way to keep the camp going it's a blow to lose the pool if we do but I think it would really hurt the community if we lost the day camp so one other question I had to having lessons down at the center side will there be any other public there as well the public will be there too they're not closing it for days we're going to be opening it up for days whatever social guidelines are in place at the time for swim lessons it's a situation where you can go hands on because you're in the water it's a safety thing so our little cohort will be fine we would have a lifeguard there and a swim instructor if not too and we would just kind of get our own little end at the water front but it would be better to do that than not have any water safety instruction this summer and we have staff that have waterfront certifications yeah our pool director has it and then he has the ability to train our staff so we just never do it on our pool because you have to drag them across the ground and no one wants to be dragged on the five glass floor so we would train them at the first week we would train them at the last night okay any further questions comments? motions that may do reconsider how we're structuring whether or not to keep the pool open no the motion is to allow staff to make arrangements to have swim lessons at the waterway state part yeah so motions that may be seconded all those that wish to approve say aye please okay okay skateboard park do you have some input on that as well Nick? do so let me just for you start who's joining us on phone other than the gentleman that called in earlier about the skate park or any other agenda that are left I myself I'm Chris Piazza what's his name? Chris Chris Piazza so basically this skate park I think it was proposed was it over ten years ago to be billed? no it was it was after the flood I think so it was early part of the you know 2010 decade I don't remember exactly when it opened but bill mcdougal was instrumental in spearheading this her child was a big skateboarder and wanted to have a skateboard park she enlisted some people to help build it and then raise money to buy the materials and a couple of community members built the skate park there's a half bike there and what else is there Nick? basically three three ramps three half bikes there's rails and it's made of wood and you know it's it's not ten years old yet but it's certainly seven or eight and I don't I drove up there today just to I didn't get out of the car to go look at the skateboard facility itself I assume the vlct insurance people have looked at that with you in the past and not with me I don't got it with Woody so anyway they don't like it okay yeah so that's the background on it the skate park is used by out of ten ninety five percent of the users want to use it for its intended purpose they skate at a great time have a lot of kids in rep that go up there and they talk about it and I go up there too often and I'll see I'll see them utilizing I'll see people respectful but there have been issues in the past Gary there's a quite the document trail from Gary right behind the water barrier center fire station and others that have you know witness some legal activity going on as far as drug use underage drinking and then you know some vandalism for language I've had to go up there before and spray paint a word off you know you're in there but that happens anyways around you know in general but there definitely has been issues up there for quite a few years they've been amplified since this day at home we closed the skate park down we closed the rest of the facilities down it was one of the things that seemed not available to the public for the governor's order and I put extra tape an extra sign up there because I had a feeling it was going to be a struggle it's kind of off the road so no one's really watching it so people can't get in there and not be seen by the public too much they are seen by the back the neighbors on it what's the road that runs I see my neighbors there often I'll get emails from a few of them immediately on it when they see someone there but the signs and tape got taken down almost immediately I would put them back up and get taken down then Woody and I got J. and McDonald to bring up some water barriers construction barriers we filled it with water I think Gary's pretty filled it with water roped it off again they drained them moved them out of the way and continued to use them maybe on a side note they vandalized those but it won't work with J. and McDonald on that when we packed part of the backfill on it put the barriers back up put the signs back up and within a week they were removed thrown under the backfill and they were being skated around around the backfill in addition drinking and night drinking and drug use up there and I'm not saying it's by everyone 95% of people are using it appropriately it's the 5% that are hanging around and creating kind of an unsafe environment for other people around Gary just giving me a list of additional things that they've seen throughout the years I think he said starting back in 2013 just to be clear if you want to Gary, I interrupt just for one second the activities that you just described the 5% not so much the tearing down of the barricades that's its own COVID issue but have you had any contact with the state police and asking them to look into this area at all what's the response Gary, myself and Woody have all talked to our state police officers and their office is back in the station so they'll break up a group gathering if they're there but they can't always patrol it I've gone up and broken things up before and Woody's gone up and of course Gary's staff but the state police have been made aware they've been keeping through this whole time they've been actively telling people that it's closed in unison with us it's been a problem and I without knowing exactly who's there I think it's being really nice about the 95% yesterday I was up there and there were 10 people there all sitting there one person would skate, they were recording it I reminded them that it's closed but there's no signs it's because they've taken them down since day one we've been fighting with trash broken bottles that are left up there cans that are left up there food products that are left up there we ended up picking up because it's behind our station before there were broken bottles in the parking lot now I'm not saying that this is all skateboard people but that's where it's at and we've had our firefighters tell people that in the parking lot they get rude responses if I've told somebody to move their vehicle they tend to do that but maybe because it might be meaner it's a little bit different are there signs up that that's just for firefighters absolutely but some of the people that are there they don't care and I'm not suggesting it's all and when we've asked them to move their cars we'll move them when we're leaving we've had parents sitting there watching their kids while watching my kids so I can't move my car this has just been an ongoing issue since day one kids playing in the basketball court some of our firefighters had to intervene little kids playing basketball were being forced off by the skateboarders because they used these rails on the basketball court and now they have a mountain and a parking lot we had a call the other day and they came in and they had to tell people to move the rails because we had a call I got a list of stuff I can give it to you people fall and get hurt but we have blood rags under the awning going into the back of the station that we have to pick up during a summer when it's hot they go underneath there and leave their garments there that thing can't come out of there soon enough as far as I'm concerned it's been nothing but a problem the first couple of things I was going to say is maybe it's time to remove it unfortunately if not is it time to think about surveillance cameras and is there a towing ordinance that if we don't have it in place can we put one in place and rather than requesting that they move it and get a sarcastic return just call the towing company and let them deal with it those three questions I'm all about towing people that are in appropriately parked but the towing company if we call them and there's five people up there with the cars in the parking lot as soon as the record gets there they're going to move them and keep this driven up there for nothing they're not going to get paid so until they hook the car they don't get any pay out of it so they're going to come up there and the skateboarders are going to say let them leave it now so it's kind of too late is it possible to find these people we have a towing ordinance so we could do that but Gary's correct I mean if we call enough times and nobody there's no car there to hook the towing company is going to send us a bill and say hey we're spending this time but is it possible I know it's less than convenient for when a call happens was it possible to put a gate across that driveway or a chain with a lock on it that only the firefighters have and you just keep it chained off there and the first person that shows up at the station the first thing they do is open the gate so people can get in I mean I hate to do it but that's the question yes it's likely the answer but then you're going to have people once summer hits that are allowed to park out on the grass that's where the public parking is so are we going to eliminate that ability I don't care that's going to be thrown back at us but we're allowed to park out on the grass when I was up there yesterday there's nobody in the parking lot and they were parked on the grass where they're supposed to be that's the different issue let's ask if there's anybody on the phone that wishes to make any comment that'll listen in anybody wish to comment on this discussion about the skateboard park name name again I live right now at the skate park probably seven days a week in the summertime and I understand some of those elements that you're discussing but for the most part I don't see that activities there's definitely a good number of people that are respectful of skate parks who treat them with respect you have that bad element it's not just skateboarding it's across the board we talk about drinking and drug use are we not addressing anything about the disc golf course because I think that's where you see a lion's share of it but in regards to the closure of the skate park I emailed Nick as the plan for the governor's got restrictions on these kinds of things I was unclear and made clear that the town makes the decisions about these things but it's not really clear to any of the people that are going there skating from what they've heard is that the park is now open the waterways have had it closed so those kids probably don't know that the town is able to control that fast enough you know what you guys mentioned you're looking for places for a rec this summer and people came back to work and their kids not having a big thing to do I think shutting down one more of those outdoor activities it just really goes right in the face of all that well to the comment to the comment to the comment about the kids don't understand that Waterbury is shutting it down there just hearing the governor says it's open the barricades and the tape was torn down the first days that they were put up and every time we put them back they were taken down and when we put barricades up it was kind of a signal it's meant to be there were signs up that saying the skateboard park is closed so to suggest that they don't understand who's closing it they should know somebody is closing it and it's closed and that's part of the problem it's not and I understand that my point was that it's next to that you know the reason it was being closed but you know some of these kids don't know that and I think you know this is not the way of the time we're all going through these kids have been cooped up for two months now and that's why they're getting nice they have to have some sort of outlet and I'm not saying just good perspective or if you could be here that sort of thing is a proper outlet but that's kind of why I was suggesting whether or not surveillance cameras might give us the ability to weed out some of the bad apples here on many different levels not only from a parking standpoint but from a drinking and drug standpoint and from a vandalism standpoint whether or not you could strategically place a couple of cameras to cover enough area there that it might be and then once we have Moncayama what ability do we have to either stick them with a fine or pass them on to authorities for them to deal with I'll say this you know since the closure of municipal parks this has been a bigger issue but the issues that I have are historic these are not in the last couple of months these have been ongoing issues of disrespect of people and the park and the properties if you put cameras up who's going to monitor the cameras people leave trash there someone's going to go through there every day who's going to do that I'm just wondering if there's a way to go into the state police the state police aren't going to sit there there's trail cameras I'm saying is there certain hours that that skate park is supposed to be open and closed well our people are constantly being asked in the evening to turn our outside lights on so they can skate at night and when we don't they bring their cars up there and they turn their headlights on I also play basketball one day I'm the director so I'm just up there checking out the new hoop we put in and I over here a skater tell me that they bring their cars on basketball court shining their lights on the park at night to play and I'm like oh my goodness can we just cut rocks up or something to prohibit them moving their cars like right after the fire fire station parking ends right there to me there's a lot of this is reactionary to I think the decision to close the skate park and I don't believe we should make rash I think there are a lot of people that want to use that resource just like the tennis courts you know I understand the challenges of it being hidden and it's also that little center is walkable from a lot of homes an area where people congregate and I just I think that I absolutely think it's a terrible idea to leave this meeting closing that park down I think that the issue I've been on the board for how many years and I haven't heard that stuff from you Gary and I want to hear that and then we try to come up with solutions but to just walk into this and react to you know people are going through a lot they don't understand why it's closed they're hearing things are opening up and I mean I was a kid one day and like yeah I probably would have been emptying water barriers to and dragging them out of the way and like it you know I don't I'm not surprised that they did that I'm not saying it was right but to react to that stuff and then think that this isn't a resource that can should continue whether it's in that location or a different location you look at Burlington's it's very active it's a it's a healthy sport and it's a specific thing that people choose to do to you know recreate I just I think there was a reason why I was built after Irene and I think there's a reason for it to exist in communities and you see a lot of places I know Burlington's I believe is open if anyone knows but you know I think we just have maybe a communication problem a steward problem I think there's maybe ways we can create stewardship within the community to find that respect that maybe isn't there right now and feel like there's a connection between the users of it and the town and so it's not them versus us it's more of a you know I think that's a big problem that we have right now is that we don't have that and we don't know everyone who's using it and if we start to maybe create those relationships maybe some of this goes away we now have we didn't have at least a department that would go up in that area years ago now we do like if we have a problem just like we have a speedy problem on different roads and I see the police officers move over and now I see them on neon flats pretty regularly right now is if we're having a problem and we communicate that to our officers and we hopefully work through these things but to just say you know let's shut it down or let's get rid of it and I just think that's way too aggressive for a city meeting I wasn't suggesting that that was one of the suggestions but that wasn't my ultimate that's why I you know and I'll say it again I think there's surveillance cameras what kind of guidelines do we have in place for hours of operation it seems that if you could put it into the nighttime thing at a certain whether it be 8.30 you know 8.30 whatever time it starts to get dark if you have surveillance cameras in place those cameras go off after those hours with today's tech you can do anything and so those messages get sent to those the state police officers after those hours of operation if there's violators during the day whether it be parking or whether it be vandalism you catch them on camera if they're violating at night please get alerted to me that sounds like a much simpler way if it's not working the location next to the fire department let's have that this is a terrible time to try to talk about I think investing and doing but the bigger talk would be has it has it shown you sober the period of time that we did it what would be the ideal location for staying in the challenges that it's facing and how can we maybe place it that would give it more visibility that it would almost get police through just being close to invisible from the road or whatever else that all of a sudden it can become a thing that isn't the headache for the fire department I totally get that like I get it that you almost share the space with a skateboard park like that's kind of actually we do I get that would be a challenging thing and you know I don't know who the person is on the phone I don't escape where I probably get really hurt but you know there have been some responsive people but they are overshadowed by the trash by the food products left under our awning there's a trash can 15 feet away and they don't use it the people that leave the trash on the ground so are some people using it probably and I don't care if there's a skate park I just don't want it there personally and professionally it's a problem we have a call and we come in and we have to wait for people to move those rails or move their cars because if we park behind them then they're going to be upset and then they're going to drive on the lawn and they're going to spin up the lawn and they're going to get damaged just like what we had when the municipal office was open and we had people parking behind the fire station and we had a call over the course of minutes it's a small number but we had three people that had cars damaged because they would pull in and park where they could and people would go back and forth to get out of their spaces so when I go entire park down here and throw however much we just invested in lights there, I get why certain people are going to be like well my evening is the time for me to use something like this and they're going to get creative and I'm glad it hasn't been worse than that scenario I drove on the grassland mountain to do donuts and really trash it I understand that I'd rather just we have a conversation at a later meeting specifically around the skate park and I agree that I fully understand that there's got to be maintenance problems now and movable rails sound like they're an issue so how do we fix things make them low maintenance but maybe there needs to be some public fundraiser can I actually just add a couple things just from what I'm hearing since Chris, yeah if somebody who is there for water and needs a doctor every Saturday morning coming off those parking spots so all the soccer parents are parking there I know exactly what you know those are the parking I think they're just getting some actual real science tools that have some rules about the skate parks that are specifically for the skate parks would be a good idea and it's too bad we don't have the paper anymore in town because it'd be pretty simple to just publish a notice but I think you just actually have a sign there that says these are the real rules and not just something that's hand painted by a volunteer that just gets overlooked and just actually put you know not necessarily a warning but you cannot park there you could be pretty straightforward with people and you know I see people I live just earned up to up roads so there's always signs there saying parking only I don't know what more signs would do and you shouldn't need a sign I think it's when I'm 43 years old but I grew up without skate parks and I skate boarded since I was 10 years old I understand you just have to be direct where it says you can not drink here you cannot drink alcohol here don't do drugs here people, lots of kids actually see that and then he says you can't drive your cars over onto here you know that's if it's closed from dusk till dawn it's not like there needs to be a sign that says it's hand painted but we could doctor it up but there are rules that are posted I agree we could make more of them but but they are posted but I think it does say dusk till dawn I think our parks ordinance says unless it's a week it's 10 o'clock the park's closed but somebody says don't leave trash on the ground I wonder I don't know what's going to be on that Gary I hear your concerns but I'm kind of a little bit like Mark we have a good resource that if it's used right is something that's important to the community I think there should be some sort of leadership council created among the skate boarders who they will self you know I don't expect them to believe that there are ways that kids could say hey you know refer to the sign no trash no drink and no that and they can always call the state police you know I don't expect them to be cops and you know getting into some real heavy duty stuff but they always have the number of the state police call the state police parents and the state police will take care of that issue but I think the kids could help you know they don't want to and I think if you get a few good leaders who could do something you know among themselves you know it's that same if you don't want to create help fix the problem there's not going to be a skateboard park that's aided and I think that's the way to get the kids who probably whatever the 50 to 75 percent who do the right thing get those kids to do the right thing and help police the bad apples I hear what you're saying and I'm not saying that it's not it's used a lot there's no question about it but you shouldn't need a sign not to I mean I don't need a sign I don't need a lot not to throw trash on my car when I come you don't need a sign for that there's signs up there on a regular basis confronting these other people the state police are not going to go up there they're not going to go up for some pros gun wrapper well I wish it was just a gun wrapper it's not it's a trash and we end up, our firefighters have calls or meetings pick up that trash and we shouldn't have to pick up after adults no we shouldn't violators don't typically violate so I just have to to your point Mike that's going to be pretty tough I wonder if we can reach out to or maybe even Chris and Josh Chris and Josh I wonder since you guys show interest in your adult people maybe we can reach out to a Burlington and just find out how they deal with some of these issues and maybe if you guys would help with that but I even wouldn't mind helping just trying to from what I know at Burlington it's just considered part of their recreation pathway so they might have somebody they might have someone who's almost like an attendant that they know of it they could travel as a mobile like pop-up trailer set up there for certain hours they kind of oversee it but you know there's work so there are very soft and creative talks this past year two different people approached Bill and I with ideas for a new skate park in a different location I agree this is an asset that is well used and I don't think the community should lose it I think if we were to remove it up there it needs to be replaced with a different one in a different location that's kind of on our scope these issues are too big to ignore for the immediate future just as far as addressing the fire department and the legal use of some of the things that are amplified during this day at home you guys who are on the phone you guys who are on the phone how would it feel to have the skate park relocated to a different area that's not in the center to you folks that's always to finish I spoke with Bill for a little while just to get the background on it because while I lived in the area for a long time I wasn't really involved with building it everything they had some kind of next step plan where there could be land involved with the ice center building a concrete skate park that's a little more permanent but I think that Berlin's skate park probably was 15-20 years correct? not that I think it could take that long but having a skate park go away for the kids right now would be they need to have something I think that if there's a way that they can all know that there's gotta be far more rules I think that from what I've noticed when I've seen people that are not behaving properly it wouldn't be correct for that to behave that way at any park it's a place that doesn't have a lot of control it's right there with the fire station and it's within your distance from the neighbors so they're seeing what's going on but I think that people don't understand from out of town but it's just not the next closest skate parks are gonna be in Warren there's something at Berry there's a couple of schools I understand I'm just trying to find out whether you're are you married to the Waterbury Center site behind the fire station or if it was relocated is that a problem? that was what my question was if it was relocated to a different part of town is that an issue? I don't think it's an issue I think the bigger problem is that timeline for moving it we sat in on the more school select board meeting their skate park was in serious disrepair and kind of in a really hidden place so it wasn't very well taken care of and something that was opposed to the idea of moving it but because it couldn't happen in that timeline that park was shut down and now there's no plan moving forward I certainly wouldn't be advocating that but as Nick said a minute ago the Rotary Club has reached out to us and asked about the possibility of building a concrete real skateboard park they thought the Ice Center site the Ice Center has some real advantages and it has some real disadvantages both of the fact that it's isolated and very far from anything so there's no neighbors to bother but then there's no neighbors to kind of see what's going on either well I think that it's also close to the cross-differential school and that's a large portion of the kids that are using it that's a good point too it's close to this all the kids that are in the Waterbury Center they're back and forth on our bridges pretty much on the way so I don't know if there's any strategic places you could put a skate park where you won't come up with violators some is going to come up and then how do you hang on just a second how do you hang on just a second please how do you clean up those types of things and maintain it if you don't have somebody that's going to be responsible for doing so go ahead miss hi thank you name say that again and cut out on us what's your name please my name is Mandy Bard I'm Josh's wife can you hear me okay great I just want to give a word of the cross because I feel that unfortunately they're getting short end of the stick again and again I'm going to skate park with my son since he was 6 years old and we moved here specifically to this area so that he could skate at Waterbury skate park because it was one of his favorites and I sit there endlessly for hours on end and I watch him skate with friends who are of all ages from all over the state from different states they're not right now and I see the utmost respect again and again and if you would put some trash cans and recycling receptacles at the park as of now which there are none you might see a change in some of the disrepair that you're seeing as of late which I agree it's been it's been sort of the eyes no one and I park still as it's back for the you want it's full it's full of people who have brought their kids there who are stalkers and such I would love to see and I see that it's trust in one lot of people who are part of the fire department playing horror games it's overflowing with cars who are playing disc golf so I think and it would be really important for everybody to investigate that a little bit on how they're doing that story it's a part of being moved however it should be a plan and action just for you to take something like it's the way for the kids right now it's community I mean it's for instance baseball supporters skateboarders support soccer players and it's endless and there isn't just one type of sport or art form for our kids to be partaken and I think that's really important for knowledge and it's not just skateboarders that use that area in general and who might be littering and whatnot but it would be important to put some receptacles there for people to put their guard against with regard to the we appreciate your comments too thank you with regard to the receptacles though I think we're probably going to put a sign up that says carry in carry out we cannot put up enough trash cans to take everybody's trash because of the situation that we're in this year with the staff being laid off we're not putting trash cans out at the Rusty Parker Park in other places we just don't have the capability to do that work if you go to the Waterbury Center State Park there's no trash receptacles there you're supposed to take the stuff that you bring in home with you so I think that's going to be the that would be my solution unless the select board says we're going to pay to have trash removed from there part staff puts trash cans up there when we have them on staff right now they're just laid off but we definitely do collect trash at that part on a normal summer you can put all the trash cans there if you want but the garbage ain't going to crawl into the can by itself that's the problem Gary you already said there's trash cans there right? yeah there's one there and that's again it's probably the minority people that do it there's no question about that we have encountered some people that were polite but a lot of the ones that we tell you you've got to move your cars are less polite and you shouldn't have to tell somebody don't let her Gary down by my house if you walk down past Fishman's down by my place across the bridge and look into the ditch and down over the bank people are throwing diapers by the dozens in the ditch down over the bank they don't care the issue that I'm trying to resolve is how do we deal with the few bad ones as far as moving the park I think it's probably if it operated the way it was supposed to you wouldn't have an issue with it my issue is quite simply that we have to police the area we have to police some of the people because some of the language is pretty nasty especially when there's little kids around some of the music is not appropriate of course a lot of music nowadays for little kids but I'm a classic rock kind of person in broken models and the biggest issue is the safety issue we have calls, we pull in there and there's kids skating in the parking lot in the rails and we have to get the rails moved how long of a delay should we have to engage because people don't want to keep on the skate park area that's my point here unless you can come up with a way to deal specifically with the violators and to me surveillance seems to be the smartest avenue because you can do whatever else you want and I don't think it's going to work and somehow have consequences to those violators either by towing their vehicle and if they happen to move their vehicle before the tow truck gets here then they can get issued and if they're parking illegally in a spot then they should be issued a ticket I don't care if they move their rig before the tow truck gets there or not, you're still getting a ticket because you were in the spot and we can't remove it otherwise we're just going to be back revisiting this issue again because nobody wants to do anything that's the right thing to solve this problem I think we should just maybe you and I meet could the firefighters write I'm not saying it's specific to the skate park but any recreation person that parks in a firefighter only parking space could they write a ticket, like a $15 ticket or something if they're authorized to write a ticket you don't need to be a news officer maybe that could be a solution but I mean whatever let's wait and focus on it my question would be is the park open, why is it not open and originally I remember we talked about the tennis court being closed and then we closed the skate park at the same time sounds like the skate park I mean the tennis court has now been open but we have not opened this park and I guess my question would be why did we make that decision and was that the right decision but those ramifications from yeah so there was a point that was major that I wasn't posting it's online, it's on our website it's been posted the reason why it's been closed the governor's stipulations specifically said tennis courts and basketball courts and fields and ten people on like a baseball field didn't specifically say skateboard parks but we took that as up to us I looked at what other people were doing really kept their clothes up until the week we got to do the COVID concerns our park is much smaller really since there's no way we can ensure social distancing on a small park like that so originally it was also it was just kept closed for health health health concerns and it then brought up more the fact that being created vandalized it was an issue that we wanted to talk to you before we open it back up why can't your social distance that concerns me in this time well there were eight people there yesterday sitting shoulder to shoulder why you want to stand up I'd be more than willing to meet with Mark and maybe a representative or two people that use the skatepark will it change anything I don't know it's been this way back to your first comment was this is the first you've heard of it this has been an ongoing issue that I've sent emails about my cousin was right next door and I hear it all the time that's where you have to get the kids that are responsible trying to help police the bad apples and say hey if this doesn't happen we're not going to have this I mean I had a conversation with a kid a couple days ago before I filled the form before I sent the email I had a conversation with a kid who said he had drinks the barrier and I said that's not the right way to do things and he's like well you know him and his girlfriend two other people said well the governor said parks are open and I said this is a small town things don't happen overnight and I don't know the exact policy so I let him have it without okay you should have suggested that maybe they go to the town authorities or the I walked up I went over to the park to take a soccer ball around my daughter I walked over and they were like what's going on they didn't know that I was deer in headlights well they didn't know that they were going to walk over not twice their age I said no I'm on your side but look this is how things really need to be good for you why is this the question then okay well I don't think any decisions are going to be made here tonight do appreciate you guys calling in and I'm sure there will be further action on following on this particular item look at how it's working out chat do you want to say that thank you they could ask it for us so we're opening a park as of now there's a sign that says one thing at a time here as of now the State Park is still closed I would like to open it but we just need to address the situation here figure out if any cameras already we could order some for a couple hundred bucks that are able to record we could have them installed on albracids outside of the fire station what do you and I have already formulated a plan for that if that was an option is that our route going forward opening it up with additional signage including take in take out I'd like to maybe add something temporary but then it holds to the sign as well it might be compromised violations and what not just to get it out of that we want to keep it open but it can't continue if that 5% is overshadowing the bare respectful 95% well should there be part of the sign that says if you see something say something yeah that's why they don't say things like that too but that might add to my design some signs can you comment a little bit more on the cameras or cell phone connection it depends on the system you get you could get trail cameras and hunting fishing stores for a decent one for $150 to $200 we want to connect to the internet so I would still get an location and call a local police or someone else maybe we can talk for half an hour but I would like to open it back up with some sort of contingent plan because I do understand the importance of the kids using it but Gary's concerns are very valid and when some place is burning down I think that takes president over some kids not for exactly okay so do we need a motion to reopen something like that so there will be further action on this and try to get a solution if we can I think the majority of people are probably good people that use that facility and we hate to take it away from them we're all going to be too bad at this okay so are you saying it's closed at this point? no they're going to reopen it but they'll be doing some was that josh was that josh asking Gary and Nick and I will meet down there this week and just talk about some solutions for the issues that are hopefully some of this is just people being reactionary into the closure and some of that will go away but we'll come up with some ideas alright thanks guys thank you alright we'll scratch out a lot of the list here we're going to something a little simpler street lights street lights oh jeez thanks Joe I didn't know you were one of those alright so street lights I first let you folks know about this I think maybe Thursday or Friday where I sent you an email that said we have some street lights that green model power has indicated are not they're not generating any revenue they're not sending bills to anyone for them and I thought it was a finite number of lights that we knew that we that they weren't billing us for and when Bill Woodruff first told me about this I talked to him and I said well you know let's you and I go out look at where these lights are and we'll figure out whether we need them or not and then on Friday late afternoon after he had left I read in more detail the memo that he had given me and then he came back at the end of the day and I confirmed with him so all of you who are here in the building tonight I've given you this map of Waterbury street lights there's a hundred and seventy two lights on this map green model power was sending us bills for seventy two of them so there's a hundred lights that they're not getting any money for and they have kind of calculated seventy five, eighty thousand dollars more and we're not going to backbill you for these lights well thank you very much and we would argue with them if they tried but they said we would like to either get paid for the lights or take it out so the problem is there's a hundred seventy two lights on this map and a hundred of them they're not getting built so it's not as easy to go around and say well this one isn't being paid for it's any and all of them are being paid for or are not being paid for now on the first page for those of you who have it Bill Woodruff have a few notes there so where it says should there's two yard lights in the sewer treatment plant station right across Stature Brook so we'll tell Greenmount Power those aren't the town lights you can bill EFUD for those lights if you want the one down at Moran Lane to me it's a yard light at Lee Delphi's place we don't need it it doesn't do anything for us Moran Lane years ago used to go across the tracks at least the right away did and back probably in the late 90's early 2000's life board discontinued that road that went out across the tracks if we decide say we're actually just saying no we're not going to pay for that what happens is it just they'll take it down we won't I have not been told that they're going to charge us to take it down the lights that are circled with the question mark next to it in the middle of the page on the first page that's something in place right over here the condos so if you go up on we drive and take the left and then go down over here to what was the Whaley Trailer Park and now it's those you know, unstilts houses that's a town highway so that light 36894 and 36892 those are lighting that town street but that right hand turn that goes up and says Huntington Place that's the parking lot for Huntington Place that's not our road, we don't own that road so if we tell them goes on our lights you can take them out then those people are kind of freaked out they're sitting here some night and the lights out I mean they're going to be going what the heck how many of these are I remember years ago they changed over to LED yeah so they were and I talked to Steve Blatt's speech about this the other day as well there are a number of lights in the village some on Elm and Randall, I think some on Stowe Street some maybe on Butler Street certainly on Main Street the different colors on here are the different rates that Greenmont Greenmont Power used to have they're consolidating their rates there used to be like you get a rate I've got a number that you don't have but there was a rate 1901 and that might have been you know a sodium light with no maintenance and the 1902 was a you know halogen light with maintenance so they had all these different rates and the green and blue markings and other colors that you see here are various rates but they've consolidated us into one bill now for our street lights they've eliminated a whole bunch of these rates and they're just going to use rate 1916 on the bill they're all going to be the same rate all together if we do nothing and leave these all on and they do follow through with their commitment to bill us it's $1,100 a month more than we're paying now which is about $13,200 a year we're paying $26,000, $27,000 a year for street lights now so it's another third basically we're paying $26,000 to $27,000 and if they charge us for all the lights it would be $13,200 $13,200 so it would be about a third more than we're paying now so what I propose is, since all of you here I was going to volunteer Mike Bard to do this but everybody's here now if you want to take this you have to do it at night because you can only decide whether or not a light is necessary there's some things that are obvious to me I don't remember where it is here but there's a light at Georgia's Way up on Shawn Manchin it's a circle well it's circle because I told Bill Woodruff to circle it a lot of these lights don't wonder if they asked me the other day how long is it that these lights are here you know what, it's interesting Ed Brown used to be a select board member Ed lives up on Gild Hill Road and he was a select board member I think he started around 1988 1989 within the first few years of me getting here and Ed was alignment for Green Mountain Power and he'd come to the select board meeting and say it's pretty dark at the intersection of Route 100 and Gild Hill there's a light there and somebody would make a motion they'd put a light out and Ed would just say I'll take care of it and he'd go and whether he just put the light up or he told them to put the light up but I don't think any of the select there I don't think I've ever made a motion to put a light no, no, this was years ago but he hasn't been on board for a long time but the problem is I don't think anybody who ever made a motion I ever kind of put two and two together and said, you know, they put a streetlight up they're probably going to bill us for it and I just think and just kind of got them to put them up and then, you know so I remember him asking for that light I remember him asking for the light at the corner of Route 100 and Gild Hill Road last year what's the pink dot? it's just a different rate it's just a different rate it's just a different rate just a different reading but from my perspective I don't think the town should pay for any of the lights that are on Route 100 I don't know how you feel about it there's two lights there's two streetlights right now at Gild Hill Road at Route 100 it's also a traffic light there now so I don't think either one of those streetlights is really necessary we have talked with the state and asked if the state wanted these lights on Route 100 and they said, no we don't blame any of our state highways so if you want lights there, they are the town's responsibilities so the guy at Greenville Power has been after Woody for quite some time about this Bill is kind of like stonewalling him he doesn't stonewall him but it doesn't usually get to my attention until he's finally ready to tell me so his counterpart has been dealing with him about this for probably a year I found out about it three weeks ago and you know Bill's counterpart is kind of telling him now look my boss keeps asking me when are we going to get rid of these lights so if we can talk about this again on the first of June and make some decisions I'd appreciate it I don't mean to make light of it but it's just kind of a funny situation you want me to write around and say I think this one, this one, this one's necessary well somebody's got to have to do it we all should have just come back with some lights that's why it gave you all the maps it opened up a bad can of worms if you put out a question mark to the community and said anyone want their lights removed or is that a bad idea I feel like that's what people say we want we want more lights that's what I was worried about I hate the idea of going and pulling a light and somebody being like so anything that's not on town road perhaps should be a ruin on trip should be paid for by the money to replace so like seven or six lights they should be contacted first I can't believe how many were on the ground under the town's rules here nobody's been paying for those lights and now somebody's going to be getting charged for them and it's not under our purview to be paying the bill for if we go through and we actually go and circle much we all agree in the group should we put that kind of list of lights and their locations out to the public for them and you want to come and say I think we can do that I think that's a I think that might be a reasonable thing to do you're asking for a lot of trouble but I agree with what you're saying but boy everyone has an opinion on it if you come in and you state your case you say don't take away my light I'm probably going to say can we really I don't know once it's there it has history and precedent and based on our decision it's a financial decision right clearly the simplest thing to do is just to tell Greenmont Park just send us the bill and we'll pay it that's the easiest thing to do I mean it's 13,000 lights instructions every project we have all your lights should be downcast and shielded we're trying to eliminate light glare and there's a lot of I would say drive around there's maybe a lot of unnecessary lighting what was the total number? 170? 172 I think and then what was the total if we didn't take over everything? 13,200 more than we're paying now and we were paying 27,000 so it would go up to about 40 I mean I was looking on this list to see if the 200 street light in my yard and it's not so apparently I'm putting the bill on that 280 bucks I wouldn't want that light for safety purposes I think that's your light it is but I'm just saying that I'm willing to pay for that and back to my point of some of these other lights that aren't on panel roads maybe they should have to be how does that work so that one that we're talking about that's not Maggie's way maybe they should be given George's way but those neighbors have the ability to take over that light I'm paying for mine but yours is like back into your little road could someone if we we're going to take that light away on a street corner that's a question I can't see why in that area where people really want sure I'm just wondering if we're going to run into that weird scenario that someone is like oh pay for it I'll pay the 230 bucks Katie you look like you want to shave something I'm just confused is this like where the old HDLC building was this light way back here there's no buildings or street ramps what are you looking at oh about that I think it's kind of starting to what is it oh one is at the middle of nowhere 37058 yeah I mean that's one that is clearly not ours that's where the heck is that it's past trash oh that looks like it's crannies isn't it past trash is one of the most places past trash is right up there on 37069 it's kind of out behind where the old that storage facility it's the storage area probably that crannies have out there you're right that's what you're from I mean I would agree to leave them all if there was a place that we could cut it out of the budget somewhere else or at least offset three quarters of that take it out of the same budget Chris there you go I mean my place you just saved 1,500 bucks I really don't want to pay additional money for lighting I don't think a lot of people do with this hero no that's why I said you could find it somewhere in a cut no he wants to take it out no I want to just take it out and save oh then you get to be right in front of these lanes oh wow I'll take a night ride go around to the old service okay so we'll bring it back to the next meeting and see who's marked what those numbers by the way are the numbers a lot of polls yeah I kind of surmise that alright that's that we'll look for your report Mike okay you just okay tax anticipation okay actually that shouldn't really say tax anticipation it's just a potential borrowing from each one so this is really just kind of groundwork tonight I spoke with you all back when COVID first came to be and it really looked like we were going to be concerned about revenues and I wanted to start trying to save some money and conserve cash back in I think it was the meeting right at the end of March I recommended you all agreed to lower the interest rate that we're paying ourselves for capital improvement borrowing from 4% to 1.85% and so we've been paying the tax stabilization fund from the infrastructure CIP the highway vehicle CIP the fire vehicle CIP we've been paying those back at 4% as a means by which to basically make a replacement fixed income source for our tax stabilization fund which then we used to help reduce our taxes by we've reduced the interest rate on that for the time being to 1.85% which is the same amount that we're paying the bank for tax anticipation borrowing but the fact of the matter is we still owe ourselves $667,500 the reason why we borrowed from ourselves is to pay ourselves interest rather than pay the bank and if we can continue to do that, that's the cheapest solution here but when we borrowed from the tax stabilization fund on our financial statements and this is what auditors get paid the big bucks for all it says is tax stabilization fund advance to other funds $667,000 and then these other funds say advance from tax stabilization fund so we didn't really get any cash infusion into the into the town coffers that we're going to speak now that's a little bit false because when we decided to do that borrowing we had investments at Edward Jones and the money was not in our bank account it was our money, it was on our balance sheet but we were able to take that cash in but we could have moved that money into our checking account at any point so long story short I thought that we since we have the authority from voters to borrow money for things like the Tower Truck and the Grader and things like that that were authorized in 2017 we have the ability to borrow for up to 5 years my initial approach was to borrow money and that's really the big word there if we need this money we can just go to the bank and borrow it from them and take it in, we'll have the money we'll have to pay it back to the bank and we'll probably pay less than 4% that we're paying to ourselves but we'll be going to somewhere else I talked to Paul Giuliani who's an attorney who is part of our bond council he's one of the most prominent financial attorneys as far as municipal finance in the state we've used him for a long time as an advisor so I talked to him probably a month and a half ago and said okay if the town wanted to could we go to the People's United Bank and borrow this $667,000 we've got approval in 2017 to do it and he said well no and the reason he said no if you remember back to last November when we borrowed the fire truck or decided to buy the fire truck I told him then in November we wanted to use cash that we had in the tax stabilization fund to buy it right now but in the future we would like to borrow the money to repay the fund back in November he put together that refunding resolution for us that we adopted in November that said the select board intends to borrow money at a future date to replenish this fund and he said you did it for the fire truck last November that's fine you didn't do that refunding resolution in 2017 you just had authority to borrow it from a bank you bought the fire truck and then you just borrowed from yourself he said at that point you lost the ability to go to the bank because you had already made the purchase and it all has to do with the 1986 arbitrage law he said if you borrowed it from the bank now you would lose the tax exempt status that you have on that and therefore the bank wouldn't be able to give you a rate of 2% that would have to give you a rate of 5% because the reason why banks give us such low interest rates is because the interest that they earn from a municipality is tax free to them so anyway I asked him alright if we can't borrow from the bank can we borrow from e-fund if necessary I said for our utility district there's another municipality own tax ID number Paul knows all about it he's helped them on many occasions as well I said could the town borrow from e-fund and he told me yes that they could and then on Friday and I said e-fund is a tax exempt organization the town is a tax exempt organization neither one is going to have to pay taxes on any interest they earn from the other and he said no you're right you can do it so on Friday I won't read this memo to you but I wrote him a two page letter and I basically said look several weeks ago you and I discussed whether the town could borrow money from e-fund I want you to have all the circumstances I want it in writing and then I want your answer in writing so I've got a legal opinion that says the town can do what we talked about so it's a pretty extensive letter that I wrote I laid everything out I told them when the town received the authority to borrow and I told them at the last e-fund meeting which happened last week I brought this to the e-fund commissioners and they have agreed to land up to $400,000 to the town at 2% for up to five years provided that Giuliani said that it was okay and of course that the town wants to do it so e-fund is on board with doing this and Giuliani got back to me today and he said executing the proposed financing between the district and the town is within the power of both legislative bodies the terms of the loan must be memorialized and the records of both municipalities the loan is subject to annual town and district audit which is a big reason why I wanted to bring him into this in the first place the arrangement has to be in arms length transaction closely monitoring the terms available to the town from a commercial lender so just last year e-fund borrowed money from the bank for five years they got a 2.1 interest rate we're paying the town the bank right now 1.85% for tax participation borrowing so 2% is a reasonable rate it's right in the range that we would be paying a bank I did ask him I said the authority was granted in 2017 by the voters for up to five years I said could we borrow now for five years or are we restricted to only two years because three years of the authority is gone between 2017 and now and he said no the select board has the authority to refund outstanding liabilities the five year term is supported by statute no problem with doing that I've got this answer to my letter so it is possible and legal for the town to borrow money from e-fund if we need this if we need to to get more cash into our coffers now I emailed out to you today I don't know if you see it I sent it late this afternoon so there's two there's two pages to the attachment that I sent out this afternoon the first the page with three different loans on it the top one basically shows you just for the tower truck it was initially $325,000 we've paid two payments on it so we're down to $260,000 and that shows you what we are paying to ourselves so at the beginning of the year our budget was to have $10,400 of interest paid to the tax stabilization fund and $32,500 of the advance basically transferred back to the tax stabilization fund anyone below that I've just written in since we changed the interest rate to 1.85% effective April 1st that drops the interest from $10,400 that we would pay ourselves to what is it, $6,000 something $6.36, $7.37 that carries out through 2027 if we were to borrow from EFUG at the bottom of the page we would my consolidating these two this is what it was for the firetruck at 4% this is what it is right now for the firetruck at 1.85% we're still paying ourselves the bottom one we would we won't borrow from EFUG until there's no reason to borrow from EFUG now we'd pay then interest and pay ourselves we've got to pay interest in 2020 anyway we can pay ourselves 1.85% here so my theory is in December after we pay ourselves the interest if we needed to do this we would borrow 227.500 which is after we make that full payment of 32.500 and we'd drop that to 227.500 so we'd borrow the 227.500 from EFUG at 2% in over 5 years we'd pay it back now obviously you can see that there's some numbers here that are highlighted but I don't we don't have to decide tonight that we're going to do this if we need to cash right it's far better to me this is a no brainer this makes almost too much sense well I hope that this has said you know yes don't do it until we need it but if we need it perhaps just do it and I think that the likelihood is that we will need cash we owe 6.67 200 or something like that to ourselves EFUG is in the position to lend 400 they don't have enough to lend out the whole amount the second page of that one so if you compare that one to the bottom one on the first page Chris so if we borrow from EFUG typically what we do when we borrow from ourselves is we just we make an annual payment with a payment in December one principal and interest payment if we did that with EFUG we would have a payment of $50,050 in the first year and if we did it this way which is more like standard mortgage over the full 5 year term we would pay a little bit less in interest than we would pay to EFUG so this is a cheaper way to do it but it also sends cash out maybe when you need it I think when we get to the point when we decide whether we want to make the transaction or not we'll decide whether we would pay it monthly or pay it annually I think EFUG would prefer the monthly payment so they have a steady stream of money coming back to them should they need it so anyway no action is necessary tonight I just wanted to see if you had any questions Mike already told me he thought it was a good idea no great idea any other questions okay great Katie you told me you weren't a numbers person I would have you can give me a call if you have any questions I can walk you through it it's not a numbers person feel free to cast me thank you Matt and that's what we're all about these days we're really neat probably one last thing on your list here let me read it's really short and I think there's something we should at least discuss and her email says now that the governor is talking about opening up even more I would like to ask that they select or do whatever they can to support our local restaurants and allow for outdoor dining in the summer even if this means giving up some parking spots as Montpelier has done even closing Stow Street on the table for a weekend giving people enough room to spread out will be a key let's support our restaurants and make dining safe for everyone to be creative and finding solutions for restaurants and patrons people can park a little farther away at log it's worth it to be able to sit safely in a restaurant I think it adds a lot of merit I was on the governor's task force for the reopening guidelines most likely the first phase for restaurants is going to be outdoor dining only which makes a real challenge Blue Stone doesn't have any outdoor dining currently Black Back has that little thing I think the hard thing of Waterbury is in front of a lot of the restaurants there really isn't much space plus we have a huge construction project so I don't know I talked to Eric a little bit from Prohibition Pig about maybe going to Bill I don't know if you ever reached out to you but could we turn Elm Street for a period of time that the construction companies not there to one way where you could only basically go down Elm towards Randall but you can't come back you have to go the other way but then get him the opportunity to kind of build out hearing that other towns are starting to do that and how would it work I know there's been other ideas thrown about about the idea of throwing up almost like big tents that could become like food courts but the cost to do those kind of pop-ups is so hard for I think myself personally and I think a lot of other people but it might be the only option for some people to at least start to do business in the short term especially so the task force I was on about we suggested 50% 75% 90% I think and then 100% they made us take all timelines off so each decision is probably at least a 2 week decision so say June 1st is after only your mid-June before maybe you have indoor but who knows and then I don't know I think I appreciate like I'll recuse myself from ever voting on anything like this but it's going to be a real challenge and they're like my business there has 50 employees and there's a significant amount of economy and then the total economy of this that I don't know how you get back and it's going to be slow to come back but I appreciate that someone in the community sees that as a potential opportunity I just don't know if it really maybe but really we'll do so maybe behind isn't that a municipal parking lot that's a part of their parking lot is that theirs? I think that one right outside the door is theirs but you know it's for that building I agree with you Mark I think that Elm Street and Stout Street are the two places where I could see making this happen and you'd probably have to do it in some sort of a work-like type but you know it's kind of bringing some patio cables out and making it kind of work you know again it's going to have to be cleaning it's going to be a hassle but for some businesses that could be not so and then you have to figure out is it worth investing in some sort of cables and chairs to make this happen but that's something I think if the town makes it available at least the restaurants that have the decision do they want to do I think that's so the question I had was can you just open up like a space if Stout Street between the Dry Bridge and Main Street were closed for a period of time can the space be made available and then anybody can use it or are we only going to let the people use it that have store funds what's logistically possible you know can you bring all your food over from across the street that's not going to help you at all I mean even in like arts festival we don't do food because of like a marathon if we allowed this to happen I think maybe McGillicuddy's could use the parking spaces in front of them but you can't really let you use the street in front of you're right in the middle of an intersection what's that I actually have maybe and I have the 10th company come out and give me a quote but I mean you're coming on the cost to do it that's my own property that's like $10,000 in 10 rental there are so many issues but I want to give business first I want to give business the opportunity and let that business people are pretty ingenious and figure out ideas you go into like Montpelier and you see those they call them park blocks yeah but I think they build I don't think the town builds them as far as I understand the town does the town creates so you know as much as some of us who worked in Montpelier always hated all those pocket parks through this very little parking there to begin with and they started removing all the spaces but I believe that the city of Montpelier creates those pocket parks what's that I'm not sure Montpelier built the structures they built like in the general I think just but I don't think they fit them up so I just don't know exactly what we would do as a town do we just say we're open to the discussion anyone who's interested approach the select board or the town put in a request and we'll work with you the best we can because what else do you do many parking spaces so how you've been very supportive I'm just wondering is there a role here for revitalizing Waterbury I'm not saying I don't want to do it but if there's six or eight restaurants and they're all trying to talk to me it might be easier to have revitalizing Waterbury kind of help establish a plan yeah maybe help I can reach out to Karen and Alyssa and see how they think I think the thing that's happening right now is there's so many operators that are working really hard to save their businesses and they might not know what's coming like they might not know that Outdoor is going to be the only option for a period of time that might make them and you have to be planning for that now I've been trying to spread the word and I think part of it is to not put fear in there but it's also there's some planning involved to do this so a couple of points on Elm Street to have a one-way traffic there you're going to have to have some form of barriers that are safety-proof just from a liabilities perspective either Jersey Barriers or something concrete that's going to just somebody hits the gas pedal on accident or you just you're talking about you're talking about so Karen doesn't run over the tables the Parkland and Montpelier that was a down home kitchen or whatever got hit the first weekend it was so that's a concern the other concern is if you were going to do something on So Street you'd have to kind of I would think want to close the street down and you've got other businesses besides restaurants there that you have to consider probably wouldn't work for any of them I mean like McGillicuddies they don't have any they do have area out in front but they have to cut the leg off on one side of the table and chairs in order to make them fit on back here they'll get outward you have to get outward you have to they have to build a platform platform when I told Liz I sent her an email and said that you were on WDV talking about I was the guy that emailed it and asked without naming names if you knew of anybody and the other guy knew of anybody or any businesses that actually weren't coming back I didn't get to hear it because I was out in Williston in the cell service with Lousy I didn't get to hear your answer but I did hear the other guys so and you just made it sound like it wasn't economically viable to have based on the weather there might be some things like I said the wedding companies the wedding tent companies are going to the state and saying will you help fund tents for restaurants or businesses that could use outdoor tents because there's some CARES Act money that's coming to the state that's going to go out to businesses this would be a way to help the tent industry but also help businesses that are going to be forced outdoors for at least a period of time but there's no answer to that so I think it's going to come down to how deep are your pockets in terms of the individual businesses I'm already seeing tents up I was on Route 7 today in South Burlington or maybe it's even Shelburne, Lino's Pizza has already got the tent up you're going to start to see a lot more tents pop up at different restaurants as they start to catch wind of this and a lot of them might even have them for different things they do I think the easiest if the I'm not going to go to this but the easiest thing might be to just say we're open to the conversation reach out to whoever we decide the contacts and see what the interest is and leave it at that I wouldn't try to design it for anyone to let them tell them what we might be willing to do I agree though with the comment Chris you said about the parking spaces aren't just for restaurants I totally respect that so and I have our first base so my business particularly wouldn't ask for that but I do have specific parking spaces in there that are allocated to my building that I probably still need to come and ask for hey can I get some forgiveness on that for a minute I'll find a space for my tenant upstairs isn't that even because that again same thing with Bluestone they have a parking in the back that parking lot has an allocation to what's happening in the building so those conversations we can ease up on that the other thing that I know is happening in some towns and Bill actually did this I don't know if the whole board knows this and maybe you do there's been some just easements on the cost of the base cost of water sewer same thing we have an allocated number of seats based on water sewer but we can't use our indoor one so allowing businesses to put some of that allocation outside even though there might exist at the same time they just can't seek the inside of the locations around that probably just you know to have yeah I don't think that will be a problem yeah so I mean some towns have pushed back and that are asked to get paymark or new water allocations for seats because those are new seats and the other ones they're inside still whatever but yeah I don't know you know I'm trying to think of all the other specifically talking about restaurants I mean I don't know if Zachary want to do it and lose the spaces they have right up front you know I think we just offered up and see who comes through I'm happy to be a contact and even go to other people's business and I'm trying to talk through what might work yeah I think the idea to have people go through revitalizing water would be a good theory I don't think you need to make any motion tonight I think by consensus you've indicated that you're willing to work with the businesses if there's any way we can do it I'll call Karen and Alyssa and see if they can kind of help coordinate this and then outdoor consumption permits they usually have a very defined space that those permits are good for it's not just you can have outdoors it's outdoors with a dimension so those would have to be modified and then if you're stepping over a block saying McGillicuddy's once the three spaces in front to tear an outdoor space you know I don't know how DLC has softened a lot of rules through this I'm sure it wouldn't be fine if you look in Burlington you have to walk across you know the server has to carry a drain from inside to the outside seating but I think all businesses are going to have to be aware so that some of Alyssa should just you know probably help understand and make sure that they don't offer something because I don't think we should offer up the sidewalks themselves I'm assuming right it would be more it would be tough and you know you raised it right at the beginning the difficulty with Main Street is just the reconstruction project there's going to be a lot of stuff going on there and even if it's not right in front of you it might be dealing with dust and everything else well I was wondering how do you have an idea how soon they might be down I don't and the other problem is it's just not going to be economically viable even if you've got three parking spaces and you've got to put some seats out there the social distancing rules are going to almost eliminate the ability to be very profitable and the investment will make sense that's why the Stowe or Elm Street are probably the only two logistical probably ways to do something hey I'm willing to listen to this bright idea I mean if the margins are that you know if somebody's got the margins that are working for them and they can incur the costs like that and operate on half of a scale that's what they're probably concerned about you know I guess it would have to be a pretty extraordinary scenario in order to make it yeah maybe after this conversation and hearing you know that there doesn't seem to be much feeling that it might be something we don't want to do I'll see what other towns are maybe coming up with or I'll put some feelers out to see if anyone has maybe there's something I'm not thinking about of what towns are doing that we might have available to us but I think the only thing was should I be building a pop-up restaurant at Carr's Field you know should I just move it all to an outdoor big wedding tent for the summer because town town restaurant is going to be a challenge versus something like Zinbar or something like that he may have potential space out that he can do tents or something like that but we have to look at what people are willing to be able to do so I think it's going to be a challenge for town town restaurants to do something like that okay one last thing and then I know Carla looks like she's better at it make it real quick in the future if we can try to be more cognizant of popping over one another I should appreciate it I think we're all good together to some degree but it seems like so do we need to can't get awarded do we want to keep meeting in person like this or well I would you know until we open the building I would prefer that we're on the phone except the people that have to be here but you know I think we all prefer meeting in person it's a lot easier to be able to see people does it help we do have capability for zoom well that's what I was going to suggest because sometimes like visual things like this are going to be awful tough to do without right there are going to be other things that we have that need visuals which a phone link you can only do so far the trouble with zoom is to you know share your screen put things up is that you're dealing with me into a lesser degree Carlo and our abilities to you know technology I can't see hosting a meeting when I'm trying to take minutes I'm pretty good if you want me to come to run a zoom you know I run a lot of zoom I've learned how to do that if zoom is preferable which we're all on a computer and you can see everyone you know you could take minutes and Karen can run the zoom if it's something that you really want to do more things with the involved visuals I think that's more key than just discussions I think we'll figure it out personally doing Carlo to I guess make that choice and how you want to run it you know like I just said if we were split up a little bit more would that make any difference or you just rather not have that this circumstance it's just what happens when word gets out that all of the select board was there so now is the DRD going to come in and have you know in person presentations and it's just it's easiest if you're consistent with you know we're closed we're not having in person meetings if we all do that then we don't have to fight off the other folks who might want to do it but conversely Bill I look at around the state I know there are a lot of towns don't have town managers and I'm sure those select boards maybe some of them are meeting in person some of them are probably not in one agreement it's closed anyway we'll figure that out I would strongly suggest to zoom I've been on a couple of the select board phone calls and it's really really hard to keep I had trouble hearing and keeping up and I wasn't actually trying to attend tonight this wasn't going to make it home fast enough to get on the call and I talked about later coming in anyway alright so that's it for tonight thanks for coming it's good to see you all in person and take a moment to adjourn so we'll move on seconded