 Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Crystal Thomas. I'm one of the members of the steering committee for the project managers group. And this summer we were lucky enough to have so many volunteers we're doing two webinars on project management with external partners and this is part two. Part one I just got the recording link for so that we'll be going out shortly and then this will also be recorded today we will record all the presentations, and then stop the recording for the Q&A. So folks feel comfortable to ask any questions that they may prefer not to have recorded. Well our speakers are talking please feel free to put questions into the chat but we will hold and address all questions after all four of our wonderful presenters are done today. And again, you are welcome to have your camera on but please make sure you are muted as folks are talking. And I will also be in the chat if you have any questions as the presenters go forward. But we are going to start today with Amy Bakko so Amy take it away. Thank you. Let me go ahead and share my screen. Thank you for having me here today and the offer to present Crystal. My name is Amy Bakko. I am the digital projects librarian at Western Michigan University. And I want to talk a little bit about a campus community partnership and building digital collections and kind of lessons learned. So I was new to my institution and Michigan in 2018, and I found that there is a large local history community that gets together regularly, and I was invited to join and connected with a lot of other folks doing similar work. And I found that once you show up and your title includes digital, you're going to field a lot of questions. So I had a few folks reach out with interest about doing site visits, kind of giving them some advice and welcoming me and familiarizing me to the community. So the way that this all came to be was the local these local cultural heritage museum organizations had these similar needs for resources and expertise, and also a desire to start working in digital collections. So the first place that contacted me was the Gilmore car museum. It's the largest car museum in North America. They had a library and a large amount of unprocessed archives. They really had some interesting materials and there's definitely a demand for the materials I had so they wanted to build this online presence. The second organization was the Richland Community Library. It's a small rural library, kind of in this kind of vacation ish destination in Southwest Michigan. They heard about how I visited Gilmore and wanted me to visit their local history collection. They were super enthusiastic and they were definitely the folks that they want to digitize everything. So, you know, I looked at I saw everything that they had they had a lot of enthusiastic volunteers. And they were kind of ready to go they just needed some guidance. So, they're very different organizations but the challenges really were the same. And also they shared the same desire to kind of share their materials widely and freely. So, I saw this new opportunity to create a new avenue for our regional history center and our archives that's part of our mission is to be a regional history center for Southwest Michigan and find new ways to branch out programmatically. Let's just try to go forward. Oh, there we go. Okay, sorry about that. So I'll do a little overview of the project. I came up with the idea for an application for the Library of Michigan's LSTA providing access to information grant, where the idea was we were going to create a mobile digitization systems and an outfit that we would be able to bring into different places and the digitization equipment would be very flexible and kind of a low bar to learn how to use. So, we're bringing to it the kind of digital infrastructure and technological know how and expertise that we had as a library with digitization capacities. We were going to provide training and create documentation and have a project assistant that was going to help us get these institutions up and running with digital collections. The idea really was more to teach people how to fish and build self sufficiency. The first thing we had to do was kind of define scope and set expectations. We have the organizations create a concise collection of materials they wanted to be digitized. We actually have them directed them to go with kind of high impact visually existing descriptions, materials that I think you kind of get the most bang for your buck, and also of course, free of copyright restrictions. Some more ended up with a collection of photographs of Walt Disney visiting Kalamazoo that were commissioned, and they owned all the rights to. Walt Disney visiting because apparently he and the Gilmores had houses next to each other in Palm Springs. And then the community, Richland Community Library decided to go with historic photographs that really I thought we're interested in showing how the area has grown and expanded. So the projected outcomes for our partners, where they were going to get this a collection of high quality digital images that we are going to host and sustain. They would be harvested through aggregates like Michigan Memories Portal and DPA. We were going to have access to this equipment and training. And we were able to give them all of their materials to, so that they had they had those to hold on to and distribute when they needed. In all we did, I think between the two organizations, we had collections of 921 objects. What comes for our library was we wanted to test the feasibility of these onsite digitization services and partnerships, and think more broadly about what every general history center in Southwest Michigan might mean. And I think, you know, find different ways to build capacity to grow digital collections and improve access. So this is when I tell you that the, we started in October. October 2019, and we're supposed to end in summer of 2020. I went on the turn to leave and we had a plan for how we're going to keep going. But nobody ever plans for a global pandemic. So I thought I would share kind of these lessons learned and areas that have helped us grow as we pursue new projects like this. So first up, I think it's incredibly important to manage expectations. You know, we can't digitize everything shouldn't digitize everything. It's important to proceed in a programmatic way, and be really clear about your limitations and expectations. We ran into one of those incidents where it was, you know, mom said no so let's ask dad. When somebody was trying to finagle getting us to digitize a whole round of newspapers for them. It's important to be very clear and your communication and really frequently and openly communicate. When we worked with the Gilmore they had just like two people that we worked with and it was very easy to kind of keep everybody on the same page. But at our cell, it was a lot of volunteers. They were going away for holidays and as everybody knows volunteer labor is wonderful but also very susceptible to, you know, kind of the current conditions. And it was really hard to pin down times to meet with them and kind of communicate directly with them. The way I would change this moving forward is having a point person that was on staff at the organization that we would communicate with directly and they kind of be the conduit to our volunteers. So, you know, in the next, you know, document everything and anything. We already, we had some materials, but in learn in going through this process and learning more and thinking about different learning styles. We definitely expanded upon materials that we've done so that there's really step by step guides that will help people move through these projects in a consistent way. And finally, you know, we tried to train the trainer model with having a project assistant. In the future, I would, you know, have spent more time there the PIs would spend more time on site with the assistant and the volunteers. I think more opportunities for kind of hands on training, and really be, I think, clear about some of the expectations and needs for people to be successful. So, the takeaways that I have from this and my in my current position, I have received a funding for three years through a presidential innovation professorship to work with a local organization called share which is the society for history and racial equity to create digital collections of their oral histories and materials, help them grow these collections and kind of create a community of practice when it comes to community driven archives and underrepresented communities. So, the ways that I've kind of finessed how I how I work is creating a project roadmap. I think it's important to clarify with the your partners what the deliverables are what the goals are from the project realistic timelines, even illustrate workflows. You know, I think builds investments that were kind of all in this together. I've taken a lot of time to really embed myself in the organization I spend a lot of time on site I do hands on training. And I really stay kind of in constant communication and communicate openly with everybody that's participating. And finally, I think somewhere I think what we did wrong was we were focusing on this. Our grant it was thinking about it as a service, not so much as partnership. And I think reframing it has been really helpful in in the ways that I continue to do this sort of work. I think it helps really build this investment and shared vision. I find myself being able to co manage student assistance with my counterpart in share and I think it's a great growth opportunity and learning opportunity for our students. And it's been great in finding ways to continue to be actively engaged and move this project forward. And I am going to say thank you and stop so that we are on time for our next presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you Amy, and next up will be Natasha. Sorry I was so focused on my on my PowerPoint that I forgot to unmute myself and turn the camera on. Okay. Hi, I am Natasha home back. I am the digital projects manager at the Indianapolis Public Library. I have been here since 2021. And I run the digital indie website. And what we do is we work with partners with with partnering organizations across the city and county to digitize their materials to highlight the history and culture of Indianapolis. And we celebrate our 20 year anniversary next year and in those 20 years we have worked with over 50 partners to create over 90 collections. One of the things that makes us a little different is while Indie PL does have a special collections and archive. They are separate from digital Indie so digital Indie itself has no physical collections so everything we digitize goes back to the collection owners, and they also retain copyright. When I was thinking about working with partners one of the first things that always pops into my head is timelines. Oh that's adorable. And this is my favorite story for how that worked. So back in 2015, we were looking to, you know, do a big grant idea, and eventually in 2016. We narrowed it down and we were going to do city services and one of those was going to be Indie Parks and Rec, and we got that grant which started in October 2016. And then in November, they discovered that back in September, Indie Parks and Rec had given all of the collections to Ball State University. And so they had to kind of start all over again with Ball State University and the copyright and all the legal stuff didn't get worked out until 2018. And that was okay because it was a five and then turned into a six year grant so it was okay that you know the copyright didn't get worked out until 2018. We digitized it in 2019. All the metadata that uploading happened in 2020 and then the big, you know, celebration for the collection launch happened in 2021. But, you know, whenever you're working with outside partners, you really do need that flexibility because, you know, being in partnership means that you lose a lot of controls over your timelines. And of course, because the materials aren't yours, you have to track collections. So this, this particular slide is going to be a little bit more do what I say not what I do. Because I will admit, we're pretty informal about keeping about documenting and doing this kind of thing. You can see on the right, we actually do have a form. And this actually has a duplicate copy so the white side goes to the collection owner and we keep the pink page. And most of the organizations I work with are different enough that it's very obvious to me what collections go to go to whom. So, for instance, if I have a Alumni Association that I'm working with, well the yearbooks for that school obviously go to them while these newsletters that I'm doing to this neighborhood association clearly goes back to the neighborhood. There are however exceptions to that. I did learn my lesson the hard way this year because one of our projects is actually more of an internal project and we're digitizing materials from several of our library branches. And the materials are coming from both the branch and our special collections archive. I've got materials from the same about the same location coming from two different sources, and it's fine, and I figured out who went to who but if I kept better track of it through documentation, my life would have been better. The other example I have is I have a organization that I'm working with where we're doing multiple rounds of digitization for them, and it's really nice to have each documented so I can kind of know where any of them are on the track. So since we don't keep ownership, we do have to have everyone sign a copyright form, and then exhibit a is where we put what exactly they've given us permission for. This is a little somewhat similar in that you know how deep into documentation do you want to be on the left that's from a neighborhood organization and of course newsletters and board minutes like it's very clear if you put this year to this year that pretty much covers everything. But on the right, this was from a dance troupe called dance kaleidoscope, and that particular exhibit a is 63 pages of every individual photo program, whatever that we stand for them. So, you know, you really do need to think about how detailed you want your documentation to be. Then it is surprisingly difficult to get people to take their stuff back. I will admit this slide is a little tongue in cheek because I was using it to work through some feelings and it was very cathartic to write it. Um, but these three boxes in this picture are absolutely level four because they have been in our cabinet since before I started. They came from an organization. We digitize them back in 2019 and then we lost contact during the pandemic and we have not been able to reestablish contact. And this is another example of where if we had better, you know, kind of legal arrangements, things might give us a better idea of what to do now, because what we should have done is have them sign something that says, if you don't pick it up within a given amount of time, we're allowed to dispose it dispose of it and of course we haven't so now we're all kind of like how long do we actually have to keep these in our cabinets. A big thing for me though with working with the partners is that they are the ones who know their materials they're the ones who know their organizations like I want to pull as much information out of them as I can. So, some partners are really great about this. This is actually a control vocabulary for apparatuses from our firefighters museum collection, and that is a control vocabulary that they created for us. And the pictures that you see is from a document that they created for us that gives us pictures of what all those apparatuses are, which is amazing. And if you compare that to something like these, and these are all school directories. So Indianapolis Public Schools started in 1873, and we've been trying to use all the directories to do a control vocabulary list for all the schools throughout time and let me tell you, I desperately wish someone else was doing it. Because as I think we all know sometimes there are those things that you're like someone should have created this list and they didn't. And then of course you have kind of the descriptions of individual objects. This is a description that my collection owner wrote for one of their objects. It was a radio variety show in the 90s. And I desperately needed them to write the description because I had no idea who was involved what they were doing what anything was called like I needed help. And he was wonderful. But if you actually read through this you can see that this is not really something that you put in a library catalog or in a metadata field. And in fact, I reduced it to this. And this is actually I think his second round, which was significantly less colorful than the first round he gave me. And he was wonderful and I told him I'm sorry like this is really fun to read but I'm going to have to drain all the color out of your writing I'm very sorry, and he was wonderful. But sometimes, you know, some people are more comfortable letting you edit their writing than others so that is another kind of expectation that you need to set up. But for me, sometimes it's easier if I write a draft and send it to them for them to correct or add to. At least for a lot of the organizations I work with. You know they're volunteering for those organizations, you know it's the neighborhood association or whatever. So they're not getting paid to do it. It's a lot harder for them to find time to provide this kind of information so sometimes if I do a first draft it makes it faster. If you do it that way. You need to give them a deadline say you know can you get this back to me within two weeks, because if you don't, and then it takes them forever it delays you and makes it so that you can't actually complete any of your collections because you're still waiting for feedback. So usually what we do is we go okay so if you have any corrections let us know we're going to put it up in two weeks. You know if you don't get it to, if you don't get it to us then you know you can, you know we can always correct it later, like just make sure that that they know it's not a, you know, speak now forever hold your peace moment it's a like I just need to have a deadline. This is actually one of my favorite slides but I'm running out of time. So maintaining contact is always a continuum. The first line is about how much material you have. And the second line is about how good our communication has been with those organizations and it's definitely always a timeline. And then of course their takeaways, none of which are groundbreaking. And I am out of time. So, I will. Sorry everybody that is my timer going off. So I will turn it over to the next person. Thank you Natasha. Next up will be Anna. Hello. It's wonderful to be here today. Thank you so much. My name is Anna Kramer and I oversee the Texas digital newspaper program out of University of North Texas libraries. In this work. We digitize newspaper materials into a collection called the Texas digital newspaper program on the portal to Texas history. This is a Texas wide partner contributed digital access repository for materials related to the history of Texas. And the Texas digital newspaper program hosts now just over 10 million pages newspapers. This is something that we actually just reached about a month ago. So I was excited. This is my first time reporting on 10 million pages. These newspapers represent 209 out of the 254 counties in Texas. The collection spans from 1813 to the present. And it is contributed by partners from across the state representing 219 partner institutions. The work is done through partner contributions of full newspaper collections. Mostly our partners are public libraries due to the grant funding. We also coordinate with publishers, universities, government agencies like the Texas state libraries and archives commission, as well as museums and societies. We're going to talk today about our public library partnerships as those are the primary group we work with. When we work with these newspapers, we receive them in physical format, microfilm issues, and PDF editions, so the PDF editions are primarily from our state press association. We will also work with heavily with college newspapers and PDF edition. We also, when partners request it, we'll coordinate with them on ingesting materials that they have digitized locally and I'll walk you through that as well what that looks like. In our partnership models for the most part, most of our projects, because my staff and my student workers are primarily externally funded. Most of our projects are done through grant funding. A lot of the grants in Texas that support newspaper digitization are through different organizations that fund libraries only. And also public libraries in Texas are often and I'm sure throughout the country are the repository for their cities and newspapers. So a lot of this work winds up just naturally falling to public libraries. And as a result, most of my work is coordinating with public library and public librarians often library directors. When we work with them before they can apply for a grant there are a few documents we have to have in place, including the publisher permission copyright document. The newspaper is post public domain, which most of them are these are entire newspaper runs and as well as if the newspaper still owned in publication and or the publishers airs are alive. We also for the grant applications offer a commitment letter, sort of an MOU with a schedule of when work will be completed this way the grant organization understands that the public library is coordinating with you and T and they have a specific timeline. And then after award, we have a an institutional contract between the two institutions that is signed based on the granted grant funded materials. We borrow the newspaper run from the partner. And when we're digitizing in house, and this is a lot of trust. They are handing over their entire community history and their newspaper run to us, usually representing 100 to 150 years of history. So it's really, really important that we track and handle this work in very specific ways. Now in the situation where the partner digitize their newspaper in house, or when they visitize with a vendor. We always try to work with them on explaining. In addition to a signed contract and permission publisher permission, explaining national preservation standards, especially if they're going to digitize with a vendor. Happily with newspapers. We have the national digital newspaper program and there is a very open public national file specification for digitizing newspapers. So partners often can point their vendor to the NDP spec for digitization. We do not charge institutions for adding the digital materials because the work being done was the work of scanning getting this arranged. And we also coordinate on the timeline and getting the files uploaded. We always ask the partners to provide these files to us on an external hard drive because these are enormous files when we receive them scanned in house. But the things that we have to have in place before they can apply for a grant. Anywhere is a publisher signed non exclusive license. This doesn't sign copyright over TNT. It simply provides permission for us to host it. As well as a project estimate from UNT and a commitment letter from UNT. And I say this, we have communicated with the granting agencies in Texas who do the most funding to public libraries. These include the Texas State Library and Archives Commission through LSTA funding. As well as the talker foundation and the Latin Catherine Hancher Foundation. We communicate with these entities say, hey, we need these in place because as Natasha mentioned, we can't have something reverse alluded on to us and be told. Oh yeah, and we got a grant and you're going to digitize this 100 year newspaper run tomorrow for us because we got a grant last year. It has to be in place. We're not good with surprises in my newspaper unit. So we have to have this in advance and our granting agencies have been very good about communicating with us and understanding why we need this. And then locally, just in advance working with our local partners if they want to do this in house, we ensure that they understand our file needs and how to prepare images and then also we ask them to send us a sample image. Once completed, we provide a full copy of all files digitized to the partners on an external hard drive. These scans are not licensed so partners can host them locally on their own repository systems. And if possible, when accepted, in most cases, very preferential we return everything to our partners everything that we borrowed, unless they want to donate them to special collections. And we also do not charge follow up continuing fees for long term preservation. We do guarantee this in perpetuity. We have the Kathy Nelson apartment portal Texas history endowment here at UNT where we are able to ensure that these collections will be preserved long term by the University of North Texas libraries. So our workflow. I'm just going to briefly walk you through how we manage different materials. When we receive physical newspaper pages they come to us in all kinds of states as you can see here. This is the Jacksonville banner and the collection is 100 years of newspapers is just one shelf. And we have to work with them to arrange them. The first thing we do, if they're bound, we have a document I'll show you in a second, a permission to disbind document where we will disbind an archival box and inventory the newspapers. Those of you involved with Indian people find this calendar very familiar. We can inventory everything separate duplicates from the collection and include that inventory in the box for the partner. And then we are privately arranged them and then we queue them up for digitization on one of our scanners depending on the, on the size of the material for microfilm. We do a very similar thing microfilms easy to inventory or arrange we track every stage of the project and inventory documentation documentation documentation is the most important thing and working with partner projects. We also, this is the letter for authorization disbind people get very scared when we say we're going to disbind your newspapers non destructive disbinding long term preservation, but that disbinding newspapers terrifies them. So we always make sure permission is placed we will digitize from bound volumes of newspapers but it is definitely not preferred. So if you're and this is going to be very familiar because Natasha and Amy both mentioned very similar things. Make sure you define your project scope and timeline, because so much of what we do is on grant scheduling. We have to ensure that we are meeting the grant agents needs. We also communicate expectations. If a partner has a collection of 150 years of newspapers and we already have a lot of grant projects in place. We let them know what split this in half. We can apply for grant funding in another year and this year. We provide documentation of the process so that they can report on this to the external agencies. We set deadlines and timelines and milestones so that our partners understand that they need to. Receive information from us that then also needs to get communicated externally and then communicating regularly is very important. I generally will send an email out once a month about project updates to my partners. There are some partners I have who will write to me daily and sometimes twice a daily about updates to their collection and managing expectations is so important. I think everybody's already said that, but just saying, hey, we will communicate. Here's when we'll communicate, but we won't. We won't communicate daily or probably not even weekly because we do. For us, we have so many coals on the fire that we have to make sure that we pay attention to all of them. And then finally, have to contact names at an institution. I have had people leave unexpectedly, and I've had all their newspapers. This happened about two months ago. I have your newspaper collection to give back. Who do I talk to? And I've had to chase down city managers, mayors, when a library director has left. So it's a very good way to have a very good idea to have to. So thank you. And I look forward to chatting with you. Thank you, Anna. And last but certainly not least is going to be Rebecca, whose slides I have, so let me. I have a new paper project with a paper that I've been in the middle of for a while, and the official presentation. So anyway, I learned a couple of things. But yes, expectations are such a thing. Okay. Hi, everyone. Thank you for being here. My name is Rebecca Van Mies, and I am the outreach in the University of Missouri. I'm working on getting that project to do with digital projects. I oversee the institution with positive choice here at the platform in addition to the archive special collections in the website. Okay, background and context, first slide. So it is a photo of the Center for Bosnian Studies. That's a traditional coffee set from Bosnia, which is kind of a coffee as I get to meaning in Bosnia. Okay, today I'm going to talk specifically about an ongoing project that I'm managing for the Center for Bosnian Studies platform, and I'm going to probably spend too much time on background and context. So what I hope here is that it will give you enough information about the scope and the challenges that you'll know where we're going to go out with new projects. And if you want to follow the question, you will just commit right. Not say that I don't love the center. This is absolutely the best part of the work that I do. The Center for Bosnian Studies is the Center for Bosnian Studies from the University Historical and Cultural Foundation initiative that's directly with the establishment and during the experience of the Bosnian Genocide survivors and their families, especially focused on those living in the metropolitan areas area, which is currently the largest population outside the country, usually numbered something between 50 to 60,000. And it's kind of been a multiple waves of people. It came as the refugees and before the war, during the war, and then kind of a secondary tertiary from Europe, over the United States, to a community forum here. We were originally the Bosnian memory project which was founded in 2007, after a history class did some early oral history recordings in the previous fall. And transition to a full-fledged center when you got a physical space in the library. And as our mission and kind of everything about, and we're becoming more of an authentic center for research. We're currently involved in four major lines of activity, the oral history program that records interviews with the Genocide survivors and their relatives. Those were the primary work of the Bosnian memory project and everything has kind of gone from there. We do acquisition and preservation of a research collection that reflects cultural experiences of Bosnia, including photos, documents, artifacts, secondary sources, probably the largest secondary source collection in the North America. We use academic programming that's kind of a piece that's evolved that promotes understanding of Bosnia, Bosnia, Bosnians, and Bosnian Americans. And finally, we host and sponsor events that raise awareness about the experiences and identity of the Bosnian population. And it's kind of in that area where we've really laid the groundwork for what with external partners and how I ended up where we are today. Over the years, we've worked with a lot of local organizations, including St. Louis Symphony Orchestra, Left Bank Books, which is an independent retailer. Missouri Botanical Gardens, Craft Alliance, the Elmire Sculpture Park, and the Missouri History Museum. These are major important local institutions and all of these projects that we've done with them over the years have just been so much more than any of us could have done individually. In 2016, we got an MEH grant from the National Endowment for Humanities, which allowed us to expand on the work that we were already starting to do with local high schools. The high schools that are located in the areas where there's a significant Bosnian population. We created a dual credit course for those institutions, those high schools that taught about the history of Bosnia, about the history of the war. And it was kind of built around students doing their own oral histories, but with one another, and then later with members of the local community. So that was their families, and sometimes that was not really had a large support from by that point. So that work has continued since the end of that grant and it's been important to some of the groundwork from what we're doing today. In 2019, we received Humanities Research for the Public Good, a grant for the Public Good from the Council of Independent Colleges. And that project sought to connect institutions with the public, like their local communities in our case, the Bosnian community, through undergraduate research. And the aims included working with the raw material of humanities research, like the archives, expanding humanities related skills and opportunities for undergraduate students and addressing the concerns and experiences of the public specific plan. So those aims of that grant program really inspired us to kind of think in a different way about our relationship with the community and about the way that relationship with our students. So as we're going to move forward on to the next slide, we'll talk about like the partners and how this project evolved. This is a list of our partners that we've worked with so far during those two different phases of this grant. So in the first phase, we worked with the Cliff Cave Branch of the St. Louis County Library. And then in 2023, we applied for a second continuing like a sustaining grant, which allowed us to build on the work that we had already done. And that partnered us with two of those area high schools that we were working with Afton and Bayless and the local library branches that were in their respective communities in this case, the Cliff Cave Branch again, and then the Weber Road Branch in Bayless. That second phase is still in progress. It's actually for the calendar year 2023. So we finished up the first phase of it before the summer break. And then in the fall, we're going to continue that with the high school program. And work with a nursing home, like a residential care facility that has a job of signifying possible in population. The real work of this of this grant from the beginning has been a community archiving initiative. So we're really looking to to grow those since the collections of the center by collecting items that the people have in their homes to share with the community and the research with the scholars and to make that available. Maybe that means that they donated to the center. Maybe it means they bring it into an archiving event at the library and we scan it, photograph it, write about it, interview them about it. We've done a lot of little micro histories about items in that the people have bought. So that's the kind of work that we're doing. We're doing that with the high school students that we're having, we're bringing in students from the high school program who are doing that that partnership with us. So they're actually taking the, they're doing oral histories, they're taking the notes, they're filling out the spreadsheets, they're doing the scans in the photographs in the library space. So, like I said, this is still in progress. Before we leave this slide, I just want to call your attention to the photo here. This is from a community, a community archiving event that we did at the clickbait branch as part of that first phase in December 2022. Okay. I really want this to be like, I'm not taking too much time. Okay, so I'm going to do this quickly, but I just want this to be a cautionary tale and I want it to be a source of hope. So, the original, I feel like remember the original date, it was 2019, and the date of that exhibit or that event was 2022. COVID got in the way. And that is going to give you a sense of where you can be there. Originally, we worked with the library to set up to develop an internship program. We taught a course, we had interns that came in, they developed a physical exhibit that went into the library. They displayed the exhibit or, you know, for the course of the kind of the end of the semester through the summer. And then I would create an online version of that exhibit so you have the posterity and, you know, kind of have a record of it. It's really great that the grants provide this opportunity for structure and accountability and this is one of the reasons that I think there's such a great idea for this kind of thing. But they also, things are always going to get in the way, it's not necessarily going to be a pandemic, but things do come up. It caused things to shut down, right? So the library, the library stopped all public programming for the entire course, not just in the fall but while under the spring. We had periodic meetings with everyone in track. I'm just going to go through this slide quickly. Keeping everyone in track. Our director was in London. She went to London for three months. She got held up there during the pandemic. So all of a sudden we had to figure out a new way to communicate. In the meantime, our primary person who had founded the Bosnian Memory Project, a faculty member who was originally on the grant, had retired. Everything that changed. The scheduling got to me, okay. Program was canceled. One of the most important things I think that I want to call out today is to keep everything in the same place, especially if you've got people in different places, especially with community programs, but we have people in London and people in it. It's useful not just for that, but it's also useful for performance reviews and for the like dossiers that we are, you know, faculty. And we're not perfect at this either. I just realized while I was putting these together and looking for photos and things that we excel document in Google Drive, which is the product that we're using to talk about the actual files is not in place, right? It's actually on the interns computer that needs to be using. We have tools, we bought new tools for the, for the work at the library, we bought a lightbox, we bought an additional camera, we bought a handheld scanner. And, you know, we were learning how to set those up right kind of on the fly. Which is fine, it was fine. And do whatever you can do as much as you can to, you know, in real time as they're happening, you know, scan that form and then have that file ready before you go in the spreadsheet as you go and, you know, take notes and then say you're going to fill in the spreadsheet later. Okay, I'm just going to, I'm just going to pull back and hopefully that's enough for you to get your questions. Thank you, Rebecca. And thank you to all of our speakers today that was all very interesting.