 Hello, welcome to Toffy TV. We're just going to have a chat about the season so far and everything that encompasses it, cos obviously everything don't have a game for a few weeks, so we're just going to use this period to breathe and assess and reflect on what has gone on. You've got John Blame, you've got Dave Murray and you've got the other end like Buckhens. Why wouldn't you? Surely one each side if it's Buckhens. Well, yeah, but in and of it, no, in and of it, well, the Buckhens has just been put together here but we just don't organise ends. Unorganised, yeah. See what you're doing. We don't have books. With the whole club, the whole club. Just have an empty shelf with all the webs on it. Dave, we are sat here in March, it's been a quiet calm season. Nothing much going on. Let's do the playing side first, cos obviously Everton right now are in a relegation battle again, year three on the run. This one feels a bit different cos other things have made the situation a bit worse than what it is, but not winning a game for nearly four months is an issue any season. But just overall, excuse me, overall, have you found the season on the pitch? Certainly up to Christmas. OK. All right. Yeah. I thought, let's segment the army, so let's not talk about the pitch stuff just yet. But I thought we played not on the front foot, but certainly with an intensity and we were in a lot of games. Villar, obviously the outlier. And then Wolves was after that one, it was after Christmas really. And it wanted us to be competitive. So at the start of the season I said 11-14. Just to have a nice season of no stress. I still think that's attainable, but obviously we've gone three months without a win. So now we're in a position where the players just look shattered. I'm hoping this little break gives a boost, refresh, bit of tight downtime. There won't be much downtime with the way he runs his ship. I think he's contributed to that with lack of subs, the right back situation. I think they're the two for me that have really delayed that momentum that we got with them four wins just before Christmas. And now we're in, this is 11-11. It could be 30 by the next time we play at home, which over some barely becomes a massive game. Which it is anyway when you've only won three home games all season, which is appalling. But he said, well, you know, other managers have gone there. I know we have a bit of debate over it, but just a home form. And it's been shocking for a while now. I said to you when the first cornering feels like the club's got long COVID. But you can't be saying that for 30 years. Just on the other two outliers that you would sort of do the two. So we call them flags, shall we call them? Red flags. The substitutions and the right back situation. We start with the right back situation. Who is probably the position that we've got most players in? It seems, doesn't it, right now? So who would you opt for? Patterson. Would you just go with it? And only because Seamus is getting to that. He can't play every game. He certainly can't play every week. So just put Patterson there. And a lot of teams play, you know, had the difference of opinion nearly about flying fullbacks. A lot of teams only play with one flying fullback and, you know, play an inverted centre back. You know, Micho could be that inverted left back if you like. Or certainly just stay this side of the halfway line where he's most comfortable and just let Patterson bomb on. And it gives you that overlap around the outside because Jack Allison, like him, but he runs in a straight line. And then he just gets out of numbers because we just don't have enough overlaps or extra bodies around the pitch. We don't create them overloads. That's the way that I was looking for. And I think that the right back one needs to fix because it just gives you that extra body, that extra, and he can cross it. He's got a couple of assists. That one early in the season. A chef who united for the Danjum sticks out but he's done that a couple of times and we've knockered on the end of it. And he can't defend because he's not asked to defend in playing for ages or Celtic. You know. So work with what you've got. And we don't. On that, John, with Patterson, do you think we might have seen a... He's not at the same level, but do you think we might have seen a brand-wide situation with Patterson if the manager would have just gone on playing you every week and therefore grow into that position rather than... You should use... Patterson's only really got a going. The others have been injured, whether it be Ashley Young, whether it be Seamus Coleman. I'm not saying he's been great when he's played, but he's never felt like it's his position to lose. What do you think? It's philosophical, I think, from the manager's perspective. Right. I think the manager sees him as a kid who can't defend. And therefore, the manager, in my view, and with you, is totally out-of-kill to what goes on in modern football and Premier League where, actually, you look at your... Whether the call fullbacks or not, it doesn't matter, does it? But you look at your fullbacks and you say, what's the... In an ideal world, the greater attacking and the greater defending, but that doesn't happen very often though. Right? So if you make a decision, most managers favour football... Footballers who are fullbacks, who can attack. When you look at the attributes that they need, it's about athleticism, it's about pace, it's probably about a bit of height as well. So being taller fullbacks are on the old shows his guy and the team as the fullbacks sort of thing. So with that in mind, this manager just gets it wrong straight away because he's looking at the defensive attribute of the player more tender than Paterson, so I'll play him. Almost becomes I'll play anyone except Paterson. And he's wrong, I think. I think he's wrong. Your question is, would he have developed over the last 15, 20 games or whatever it is, if he was having to play in the team, which does defend, plays to a tight system as well? Yeah, of course he would. Of course he would. A manager has to be measured on whether he makes the best of the resources he's got and does he make some of those resources better. Now if the claim that Michel Enco's improvement at the other end, which is a default defender who's laid to get forward a bit, and if the manager wants to take the claim for that, and I'm with you by the way, the idea that you'd have two flying fullbacks is great if you have the luxury, but they don't do they? Most teams don't have that. They have one who can get forward with pace, athleticism, whatever. Two players who can do that. One's Seamus Coleman, as you say, is better, he's a behind him if you will. And the other one's Patterson. Everyone else is a defensive fudge. That's all it is in my view. And Michel would look brilliant, I think, and he's already going to likely end up as player this season because he's best of a bad bunch almost. Where he's a defensive minded fullback who can tuck in as a centreback and then that gives the manager flexibility by there's four at the back or there's three at the back. That then gives you potential. You almost end up with a spare player, don't you? You say, ooh, who can I have as that player? And I just think managers missed a trick big style by not persevering, coached a kid, telling me you're going to play. If I'm Patterson, I want to weigh because I'm thinking 38-year-old blokes in front of me, a 34-year-old blokes in front of me, anyone who can defend is in front of me. Why am I here? My career's going wobble, wobble, wobble. What happens if he doesn't get a will, of course, but what happens if he doesn't go to the Euro simply because he's not had game time? That's ridiculous. What happens if he goes to the Euro and looks great in a Scottish game? The buying wanted him, didn't he? Yeah, they're not daft. But again, when we talked about the whole form. So the last time we'd either got to this late in the season in my mind was 2012. We played City, beat City 1-0 and Darren Gibson scored. That was our fourth home win. Then he bought Yelavitch. I think he got Darren Gibson landing down. That was on January 30. That's what I mean, but what I'm saying is they got a boost. We haven't got anyone in January because of what's going on. We haven't been able to get that boost. So you need to change it somehow internally because there's not a lot of coaching here. I think you're right, mate. The other thing that Patterson has missed out on is spending all that game time on a field with Tarkovsky to the left of him. He's a good talker. He's a good coach on field with players next to him. Earlier on in the season particularly a few games Patterson did get. He was non-stop talking to him because you learn what you're doing wrong in the real life situation. The manager and his coaching staff can say what they want but once you're on the field you need the old hand to come up and say don't worry about that. You know, and so on. I don't think... Just before you do, I was just going to say that game managers do that. You played it, if you remember, Hibbert played it. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, he did. That was a transient play change. I'm saying that managers will resort to a default to get them out of the situation and usually it's experience. Isn't it? No, it is but... Patterson is an attacking man. I know he's not amazing defensively but then you've got five days a week or four days a week to help him with that when you're training. That's the only idea of the trainer. What would you do with Patterson or do you understand why the manager doesn't play him? I understand why he doesn't play him. He doesn't play him because for all the reasons you said because he can't defend. He doesn't want anyone to go forward. He doesn't want, it's a mindset. He doesn't want fullbacks to go forward. That's just the mindset of the man, isn't he? He's got a centre back playing there for a reason because he wants a fullback who's big, strong, fast and can get about the pitch but he doesn't really want anyone else to attack. It's just fact, I mean. I'd love Patterson to play. I've said loads of times as much as everyone loves Michel Encol I wouldn't have many way name I have in team if I had the choice of Luca Dean or him. Do you know what I mean if we had... I wouldn't have Michel Encol. He doesn't bring you this season but he's almost like the shining example of where we've gone wrong as a football club. It's a player who just can defend in an age where you want your fullbacks to attack and you're absolutely right you do only have generally won them. You'd have to have both sides in your squad though. You'd only have won, don't you, in the other... He's a centre back. He's a big Ukraine and... He's like Hibbut, he's not an issue but he's a glaring example of where we are as a football club and we had it with Tony Hibbut. And then Seamus Coleman coming and everyone went, oh my god, because Seamus Coleman went the other way and therefore we put teams on the back foot and I think the man had said, Carlo, don't it when he's coming? Carlo had Seamus Coleman sitting in as the right centre back and Luca Dean pushing high and then if Seamus went forward Dean had to sit in and he remember when clop was talking about anti-lots because he had their number and he had clops number all the time and he said it was that deep of doom that Liverpool couldn't get to grips with the fact that the fullback when he played was like a left winger because it meant three and he'd try and make it lopsided to catch them all. When you say it, don't you use an example you talk about coaching, you know Trent Hollies and Ronald cannot defend but he is what he is and we're getting assistant to work around that when Newcastle, Dan Byrne, we're trickier on the other side, you know you come down as the example With that in mind what about the third back then where Patterson can be the right wing back because he plays there for Scotland and where it's obviously Michael Enkel then could sit and be the third centre back with the left foot and then you could have the entire koski and you've got the three The only worry with that is where I don't think Tarkovsky is best suited as one of them one of them outside roles he's got to be the middle one and then where do you put Branthwyth so then Michael Enkel so Michael Enkel's idea left wing back all is up and you've got to make you've got to change it because then you could add McNeill and you can play on the left and Patterson but he's an option and he's a body but Young's also a right side of the wing back so you've got what I'm saying is if you add the three and it was Patterson and McNeill to start you've got two changes on either side you've got Jack, Patterson, Michael Enkel to replace them then you could have two up front that's the spare player it's probably the most place where we've got let's use the word competent by now around the pitch and we haven't seen others and he creates them options if you go into a three in midfield Garner or Addrissa can come in the core I can go out and it keeps that freshness around the left or the core I can play in the three with them and Beto's getting more of a run before people write them off after 200 minutes but you've also then got an option of Chimity to go on the long side or Dan Duma when he's fit he wants to play through the middle but you can only really play through the middle if you've got a big fella with him so we're turning this into do we play four or three at the back we've hit a brick wall we've hit a brick wall it'll be almost four months since our last win next time we play a game so this is a chance I think for ten games for the manager to go we've got a ten game season now do we do something different or do we keep just going four for one I agree with the difference but is it moving from a difference in trying to make the right back more expansive or is it a difference changing the structure because with this stubborn manager it's almost like if he can't make a change then take out Godfrey and put in Patterson he's not going to make a change to three either is he the last win he did change it to a three a Burnley didn't he and Thor Patterson was really good that day he was excellent they should have had a goal from it but that is my point is the decision he needs to make is to put Patterson in the team which becomes a three in certain phases of the game his defensive attributes are less important most teams don't play like city do or the RS do there are multiple players up front it's normally one and one off we're three really competent centre backs should be able to cope do you agree with this that's one of our best performances away from home this season I think Burnley was one of the only places where we've actually played three for a very long time where the wing backs were aggressively high and that's normally it just ends up being a five doesn't it? against Burnley we were really aggressive Patterson was getting really high up the pitch and Harrison was going inside and obviously Dwight McNeill was on the left and it really worked that night because of the opposite but it was because we were aggressive we sure as played five on the lampard and there always ended up being five didn't it and that's maybe where he worries is that if you play a five and you aren't brave you ended up just sitting on the edge of your box and allowing the team to just get round the box because that's all happened with the lampard wasn't it well I think that's what I touched on when you first started about that intensity has dropped since Christmas so if you're going to play it's almost three five to isn't it there has to be aggressive it has to be aggressive and intense but what's our biggest but I mean Sean Diter's managerial career is at something like 0.83 goals per game he's got less goals than games manager which just blows my mind but that's where he is this evidence seems the third lowest score in the Premier League okay we can go on a bar under performing XG we should have 12.5 I keep saying it I don't know where the half goal comes from but we should have 12.5 more goals than we've got but we're in we're almost in April next time we play so that you can moan about that XG in August, September and think it'll start at 10 and when it does it's fine so what I'm saying is we've only got 29 goals so far this season and half of them when you were talking about be more than half so if we did go to creating a bit more intensity higher up on another striker maybe with you know whether it be Dan Geumet, Dom, Beto, Chimity one of them for if you like wouldn't that give us a better opportunity to score on goals which might win us games a lot of the times whoever it is up top become isolated Dom's hold a play very good Beto a little bit more raw certainly a threat cos he can put it about a bit more and actually the football we've played has been better with him in the team which is bizarre to me it's almost having two different style of plays for whoever your front man is which is crazy and I don't think Dom could probably play the same way they do win Beto's in the team but anyway so they've got to mix it up somehow and the change for me is it comes on that almost you're saying your right back's going to fix your sees but isn't he giving you an extra attack an option oh yeah of course but what I'm saying is your right back whoever it is or your full back shouldn't define how you then go out and try and get points in this league for all that robustness and the energy it's created which is dipped but it's the nature of how you play isn't it and that's almost like what we're saying about Patterson is he changes the nature of how we play our game instead of having a centreback or a 38 year old or a 34 year old Patterson you know the nature of the team is going to be to go forward it's whether we trust the team enough to do it and you're very much saying we're going to play defensively from the start but where's it truly got us being defensive this season hasn't got us anyway his percentage isn't it so his percentage will be you get so many points yeah that's how he works you win and you draw half your games that's what he wants doesn't he which I understand the situation that we're in creates an area of complexity about it about the style and everything but but it's just been negative isn't it it's just been negative isn't it you fall back on the defensive structure and all of a sudden the mistakes are going to creep in whether that's Pickford, whether that's Tarkovsky whether that's Godfrey, Mark and Neil you've almost got to be done and you can't be haven't you know you've got to be perfect like Saturday at Old Trafford you had to be perfect defensively two defensive mistakes, the plan's under two penalties and we're 2-0 now we're actually doing okay here, we're getting bit 2-0 that's what I mean there's like no roof back and I said this on Saturday for anyone who was watching the thing we don't know what to do today we've lost the game but in isolation I keep saying this in isolation that United game wasn't an issue you just go most games in isolation we don't know what to do Westam we've played well worse than we have against Westam but we were winning 1-0 a bit less than 20 minutes to go so in isolation it's okay but when it's in a run that's continuing and continuing and continuing that's where I'm worried we've got to be 3-1 against Westam but we've won 2 of the last 6 I just go you'd be ffium and going bad defender now stupid defeat but you're accepting there aren't many games this season that we've been sitting away never leave the table on them walls away feel it away so 4 games out of 28 every other game that we've lost or maybe drew has been grand dog day and the chances should have won actually is great we've seen it in the last minute at the park end so he deserves a lot of credit the strikers to death that's it he deserves a lot of credit it's full of robust and there's no doubt at the moment but then the other end it's a whole pack and I'm not saying you're wrong cos he has created a strong will he's more robust but are we looking at that or are we looking at the lampard and Benita's on 59 points we'll just go with the previous manager the Christmas no, no, listen we went 4th in March when we beat West Brom 1 we were 4th that day and then people played after us and went back above us but we were 4th and we only had to win 3 games to qualify for Europe in 10 out of 10 and that was in remember we played Newcastle at home and he decided to change the centre backs and we got beat 2-0 and they were crap they were rubbish and we got beat 2-0 all on my own we were getting relegated cos he messed their arm with the team he did bug me we were so close to doing something decent it was stupid decision making sheffield united at home we were relegated absolutely embarrassing I always find it hard to critique that season cos I just think it's I just think it's go back and watch any of those games it was pure training ground no it was it's really hard to critique that season cos you forget not only with the games but who knows what the environment was like it was like a training ground I look back at those games at the time we were in it but you take a look back now it's just like you're on the same training you're on the same dressing room with the latter you've got to stand far apart and he said the manager said attack down and he said so we just all step across there's no secret not getting lost in the crowd he even said as a pro the intensity was lower he did that to take the kit home with charlison still got half of that gear I just worked out why jack charlison's grip socks are great cos he had to take them home when he was doing them on it like a 60 degrees instead of like a white wash sorry he done them on a 40 instead of a 60 that's why his grip socks are great whatever you just said no idea you don't know you must do your washing not even grip socks don't you just put them on a thing and then when you come back it's washed the magic table have you got a magic table listen let's move on I haven't been domesticated where we are then we've got a 10 game season like you've just said what do we it's not a stupid question but what do we need to do is that for you going to places where you get hurt I'm asking you going to places where you get hurt I think he has to change the fullback I think he has to make a statement that I'm going to play on the front foot particularly godderson away like I said he's got two goals play six centre backs play keen off whatever because when people comfortably say about how he's made us more robust how the titan defends we don't can see many good because we're a load of defensive minded don't cross the halfway line we see it every season in an FA Cup a non-league team rocks up to a Premier League team very well organised very structured five at the back four in midfield and that all works up to a point we've talked about boxing before when we Tyson they all had a plan to hit them in the face they all have a plan until they lose a goal because if they want to win the get if a non-league club rocks up at Roll Trafford you've just said a non-league club rocks up at Roll Trafford and I've got stick for better and I've got stick for better I've got stick for better and I've got roll Trafford and I've got stick for better as they rock up at Old Trafford with a view of let's get out of here without losing too many goals then they go one down eventually and they go home well it's only one and then it's two then it's three and they go we're settled for that and then they get clapped off well done plucky non-league team they've had their day out they've all played it the swap shirts and all that sort of stuff but the Premier League club plays like that like we do as soon as you go one down do you think well let's just lose two or three nil then because as soon as you have to change to try and score a goal to get an equaliser to get a point or to actually win the goddamn thing that defence of robustness which might have been achieved through numerical and working very very hard all gets stressed doesn't it and it's why we find ourselves frequently in that situation that once we're expected to be a bit more expansive of course the defence of tightness goes because you go in that way players aren't doing recovery runs they're not getting back quickly enough they've probably forgotten what happens if you're all piling forward we did it at Old Trafford at the weekend we started with a high press didn't we we had them wetting themselves but then got caught defensively on the couch bang bang bang bang who thought going to Old Trafford was a good idea to go at them right in a pressing sense but even when we got the ball we didn't know what to do with it really if we were a better offensive team we'd have been two up by the time they got out of their own mouth and that's the defence that the manager can have which is when the chances come if we take them it's all different well increase the frequency of chances increase the quality of chances if you give DCL two or three decent chances in a game and he will score at least one goal perhaps more you never do that was it you talking about your XG was 1.8 but they were all like 0.1 that to me is stats for stats of course it is right so you ask the question what to do change the mindset the manager changes his mindset because that transfers to the players he pick and the way he chooses to play 10 games what do we do 5 is that what you're saying I don't think 5 we've got 5 our own games haven't we that's different if we win a derby then fair plays win all our home games win all our home games yeah and be alright before our own wins on and away we're not looting or boring beat the right teams and get away with 3 or 4 wins can't you head we've had manager change your mindset I like Dave's suggestion which is just win games we can't lose to looting we just can't lose to looting doesn't matter what happens and we have to win the 4 home games against the opposition we're supposed to beat it's as far as chef united and the way we do that is be a little bit more offensive and that doesn't mean changing things from the start that means if changes need changing in the game you've got to go after teams getting better off and not bringing them on or the other way around but will you change the format in a home I don't mind a way I think I don't know but I don't know I think there's a choice to be made whether you can go to a 3 but he's so stuck in his ways what about Patterson then coming in going up and attacking fullback again you're asking that to us saying that it's very easy for us to go the manager has he'll have a lot of like to what makes it work and I don't know whether just bringing Patterson in is the solution to everything because I think midfield James Garn is a waste of space for me because he literally plays in the same position on his own aren't he look at the the heat map and the position they play in the same position you have to have something in midfield you can drive forward but do we have to play probably not but then could MacNeil play be on the strike there's all little things that maybe you could change during the game not necessarily one big thing that you're going to but have a plan A and a plan B do we have to do something different for those home games we have to be more positive and not just say well we'll see what happens till either one of us scores full an hour that can happen when MacNeil's coming inside he should have an assist for better and that's in, that's not his fault but that was a nice place position he found himself in he could actually play there though he took up some nice positions he hit the post the one against Chelsea where he cut inside the full back was whoever was chasing back he cut inside put it through to Dom and then to Corey he scored getting them nice positions maybe that's on the shelf pull back and goes down the remaining games what's either scary or good is that the majority of our games are against teams in the bottom half which is where we got most of our points from for obvious reasons and they are predominantly against teams in and around us as well so they all have greater value you beat Brentford, you beat Luton don't lose as Pedd says you beat Forest at home, Sheffield at home where's the problem and maybe there's a segue there into talking about the field stuff because where's the problem is potential for a future points deduction well, pause let us know what you think what do Everton have to do in these final 10 games what can the manager do in the management team not just Sean Dice, what can Wone and Stone help them out with what should they be looking at is it Patterson, is it Seamus Coleman for home games and just try to bomb on a little bit or is it Two Strikers let us know what you think in the comment section below thanks for watching, see you later