 We've got to have you still remain with us on the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. We're taking a second hot topic and we're going to make the best use of the small time that we have to treat this. The topic is, are you all who blames what's mean security on failure to prosecute perpetrators? I guess this morning is Mr. Paul Ajume, Public Affairs Analyst. Good morning and welcome to our program, sir. Thank you for having me. Okay, so we'd like to have your perspective or your thoughts on what Mr. Ajume said. Is blaming all this on the failure to prosecute perpetrators of this insecurity in our country. What are your thoughts? Good morning also. Good morning. Good morning. My people and tango that this man is speaking his mind, he has not only commented on the national issues and what should be done. Because this is the time for every concern that you have really to come out and talk about this problem of insecurity that has taken them. So it appears to be perennial, but it can be solved by a country that has sent troops to go and bring peace and solving security problems in other countries. Yes, if you don't properly diagnose a problem, you are not likely going to get a disease, you are not likely going to give it the proper treatment. And that is what, and it is not for want of a solution. I think many people in various forums have offered solutions. The military is not that, I don't think it's not that they don't know, the security agencies and everybody. But it does that political will. Failure, yes, because we have, people talk about, for instance, Sambisha Forest, where this is the forest now, the evil forest in the Tinshala Path, where all the evils are coming and nobody, everybody is afraid to go there and so on and so forth. But what about the ones happening in farms, where some of these bandits, they call them bandits, they call them Gubao Panarovnims, they have actually taken over, and it didn't start with this administration or the last one, taking over swaths of lands in communities. They are in control of some communities, where they are now paying their collecting taxes, their alternative governments. Why should that be? In a country where you have what it takes to actually put... The Nigerian Army is not the worst, they have performed. I have seen them perform, they have been to Liberia, they have been to Sierra Leone, they have been to international missions, peacekeeping, they have excelled. Or is it the Nigerian police? Yes, there are issues. But one, it is one, let us take it from the layers. One is that, and it comes from, one is that I am not going to go from top to bottom. Let us go from bottom to top. Is that policing or is the community issue? And that is why you know how people saying, communities will start because you need to know where you know if Yangon is living with us and Rumia is there, we know each other. Communities know themselves. So when there are infiltrations, you have foreigners or suspects, you know them. And what happens? From the community, you know in person, we used to have, I don't know, they give them various names. What you have now, Amatuku, Dubangu or whatever you call them. We had them when we had the regions. And what they do is that nobody is allowed to go free. You have to, if there are no punishments for bad behavior, that society is actually making it possible for people to, you know, to, that you are promoting impunity. So when you now see that there are foreigners infiltrating, you have to single them out. Not when they come in drugs. Make sure that, because they don't just soup on people. They do their own recce, reconnaissance to know where the security, the weak links, where they will have to penetrate. First you have to secure yourself and then people will have arms. Then you bring them kinetics. But the key thing is also information. Information, that is what is called intelligence. Intelligence is in processed information, not just information. When you get it out, somebody will tell, we will tell the other one, listen, there is, I've seen some suspicious movement there. Who are they? Then citizens are now also part of it. What has happened is that there is a disconnect between the government and those that they govern. There is mistrust. Nobody believes the government. Nobody will trust the government. And then, even the security agencies. I heard the chief, you know, if many senior military officers are saying the other day that when they arrest some of these people, they put them, you know, detain them. The next thing is that they are released and they are on the street. In fact, they now go and those that gave information for their arrest, they will come after them. In that society of cross deficit, we cannot fight insecurity. So these are the layers. Information, acting on them, trust, and then action. And involvement of the citizens, citizen participation. There is no way anybody can do it. In fact, they call it the intelligence. What you are doing now is people, people driving. You can have your drones. You can have all your, you know, advancements. But if you don't have, you know, personnel, you don't have persons that will help you. In Iraq, the British troops were very successful in the area where they commanded because they used people to gather information that enabled them to use kinetics where it is possible. Walk with those intelligence. Okay, so it's interesting, yeah. So it's interesting that you listed these things. Information, acting on them, trust between the citizens and the government. But our last, we had one guest that we actually here also spoke about distrust. You know, so that if we have a community of people, if someone is coming in and trying to infiltrate our community, we can easily fish them out. But I think, first, maybe the government doesn't even give us that will power forced to be able to do that. That's on one hand. And even if we do, how are we sure that we're secured? That's number two. And number three is when they arrest these people, what are the things that they do? For instance, in the Kaduna Abuja highway, it was on the papers today about 30 people were abducted. So when these things happen and you arrest these people, you detain them. How are we sure that you would even prosecute them for them to do it again? And for you to also put like a fear into others to ensure that they don't come because we're talking about the worsening state of insecurity in our nation. And it's because maybe they're not prosecuting these people. That's why others can actually even spring up. So now they have power. They have leverage. They feel like, you know, we can do these things and nothing is going to happen to us. So what can we do to ensure that we start to prosecute them? You are seeing it. They're being named and shamed. They are doing their time and they don't come out to start to perpetuate this evil. Yes. One way of ending what's the other way for that is impunity. But people get away with, you know, murder. Nothing is, nothing happens. And that is where, because there is no deterrent. The other thing that ought to happen also is to be able to empower the citizens to, you know, come out. There has to be. You have to build that trust. Okay. And then equip your security, you know, apparatus and personnel properly. We don't have a situation where those who are attacking you, they have more sophisticated whippers than you do. Then the other thing, my sister is also sincerity. Those fighting this, those fighting this, are you sincere? Because you have had the situations where you will, you have somebody going after them and then they tell you a commander receives authority to say, no, stop. When you are about to just finish, you know, finish the job, they tell you no, or they tell you no, there is a limit. This kind of, you know, what do I call it, inconsistency in the command and control, the message, messaging, the communication that you give. It must be, you know, consistent. You have, in fighting terror, you have to show that the right hand must know what the left hand is doing. It's not that you have one love for some people and then another love for the sort of people. You have to come with, you know, equity. You have to show justice. You can't bring, tell people when you are arresting people, they come with, they know, you know, use their, they say you have wrong leg or whatever. You have contacts or connections. Before you know it, they disappear. I have, somebody has also said that those who have the children or anybody that is connected that is staying, they will bring that innocent person to replace them. Did you hear that? In detention and release those ones that are well connected. Politically, in friendship, you know, you know, people. So, there is so much inconsistency in this fight. When they come work, you have to show your hands. You have to be consistent. You have to be cross-body. You have to be, to be seen, to be said and just to everybody. Equity requires that. You cannot have one set of love or one set of people or one tribe or one ethnic group and another one for another, you know, other groups. Otherwise, those who are promoting anarchy and impunity, those who are trying to suppress will always rise. And let us also get to the root of this matter. Let us also examine what is the root cause. Why do we have this? Some may say it's ideological. It is religious. But it has also been seen that it's political. Some politicians can enlist some of these people, you know, Boko Haram from 2009. Some people said that some people were invited into this country to help in, you know, fighting for orders so that to gain political power. But if you are riding on a tiger, in most cases you end up in its belly. So we are not dealing with a monster that we do not know how to handle. But still it can be done. Let us show you an example. Let's make an example, Buddha above all of us, to show that we can handle the injustice in tackling insecurity and in a terrorism. And then also in securing our environment from the community level, village level to, you know, the cities and then at the national level and then regionally. Because terrorism and security that we are dealing with in West Africa is also, you know, a transnational crime. Okay, I would like to thank you Mr. Ajima. I was going to ask you definitions. Who are the perpetrators that we're talking about? Is it the people holding the guns or the people drawing the strings or whatever? But you have been able to give us all the root causes or the sources of this insecurity. Politicians, religious heads that are not curbing their members and so many other people. So we do know that if we are persecuting anybody, it has to be all these people, not just the people holding the gun. Yes, nobody should be in separate town. So we would like to thank you at this point for coming on the program and being a part of our show. Thank you so much and happy new year. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Have a wonderful day. Okay, we've been talking with Dr. Paul Ajima, public affairs analyst on the words of Mr. Ajima, who said that it is because the people who are the perpetrators of this insecurity are not being prosecuted. That's why it is festering in our community. We'd like to thank you so much also for being a part of our show this morning. It's always wonderful having you. It is. How do we leave them? Well, I think we can still go back to our quote of the day. Yes. Do you remember it? I like your motivation out there. I mean, that might just be another career path. Okay, well, as we have on the show this morning, we'll leave you with our quote, but in the meantime, my name is Nyamzul Aghaji. My name is Rumeh Paulsen. Have a good day.