 The top three lower body exercises for people over the age of 40 are as follows. Boxed squats, driving a sled, and hip thrusts. Now why are those the best? Controversial. Exercise. Controversial. I like it. Here's why. I'm going to take a big disagree. Here's why those are the best. We're not walking. Wow. Now of course this is very general, right? I'm saying just generally over 40. But here's why. I can't wait for the comments on this. The biggest considerations with people over the age of 40 are risk versus reward. And boxed squats are still barbell squats, but you do remove a lot of the risk because of the pausing on the squat, right? There's no changing direction where you have to like change your tension. So injury risk goes way down. Driving a sled, super functional, doesn't damage the body. That's the only one I agree with. Hip thrusts? Hip thrusts? That posture you're changing? Fuck hip thrusts. You got to do it. Get out of here with that. Tell me you don't agree with this. I mean, yeah. You do? Did you help this list? No, no. I need something explosive though. I want to add like a kettlebell swing in there or something that's like moving fast. Okay. Yeah. But that's not, I mean, I guess you could say it's a lower body exercise. Hip thrusts? Box squats? Remember that time on the podcast, Adam? We said Justin and I were better trainers than you. Can we put a clip in that in there, Andrew? I mean, the box squat was just for the show, brother. For strength and low risk. That was me practicing humility. Yeah. Let's be practice. Okay. So do you see why I listed those? No. Okay. So I love, I love it for, I mean, it's going to be great for the gram. We're going to get all kinds of fucking heat for this. So I can't wait for people to just lambast you. What's your list? We're going to say lunges or split squats. I would have a deadlift on there. Or if not a deadlift, a hex bar deadlift. I think that's a great- It's got to be, I mean, that's a good one. That would definitely, that would definitely replace hip thrusts for me. You're getting, you're getting all the benefits. You're getting in a hip thrust, but way more functional and can build. I like that way better. I like the driving the sled. And I would have put like a lunge in there. I love sled drills. I like a lunge or a step up has to be there. Those are all, those all are definitely I agree are in the running. Here's why, look, I put box squats because like barbell squats just are phenomenal. Just general overall. I know why you're doing it. I know there's, I know there's a concern with, you know, the elderly population or somebody who has got all kinds of issues. These people are over 40, we're all over 40. Well, hey, I'm trying to support your argument for that. Because all of us in here be squatting, you know what I'm saying? Like nobody in here be doing box squats because they can't do a full squat. You know, so, so I've been doing more box, I do squats too, but I do more box squats and squats these days because I could still train really heavy. Like today I was doing with 400 pounds. And it's just way, the risk is so much lower because I can lower myself. There's so many. Cause come back up. And so now barbell squats are the best. Okay. Just bottom line. But the risk versus reward is, is skewed a little bit more towards risk than a box squat. We just have to be very careful about how we communicate this because of course it's very nuanced what you're saying because it and it also contradicts what we talk about. Right. So one of the things that we always preach to our community is that even if you can't, so let's say you're 60 and you can't squat, you can't deadlift and do those movements. The goal should be to get to a point where you can. Yes. So if you're doing the movements you're talking about, it's not, oh, just give up and never do deadlifts or squats ever again. It's, you can utilize these movements that you're suggesting for the, the risk versus reward. This is a super argument. It's obviously a very general state. By the way, the reason, you know why I started talking about box squats this way when we interviewed Stan Efferding. Stan Efferding is one of the strongest pro bodybuilders or he might even be the strongest pro bodybuilder of all time. And he said, this was on camera and then off camera. I asked him about this and he goes, I do a lot more box squatting these days and I do traditional squats because I can still train really heavy and it's just, it just, it's a lot safer in terms of risk. And I thought about him like he's right. I mean, when I do box squats, I can go real heavy and it just doesn't seem to, I just don't seem to have the, like I said, the risk of injury or pain that I do with barbell squats. I don't think you should stop barbell squats. And again, this is super general, you know, over 40, like there's such a wide variance. So I just cautioned that advice because, okay, and even with that statement with Stan Efferding is saying, it's like, okay, I do a lot more box squats because I can go heavy because, you know, because when I go deep with heavier loads, I tend to hurt myself. And so I'm going to, so, or lighten the load and continue to go deep squatting and work on mobility. Yeah, but that's not nearly as viral. What do you want me to say? Light squats. Turn it off. I mean, you're definitely going to spin everybody like a top with those three like that because it's not what we would normally say. But think of the benefits you would get from a barbell squat and then think of the benefits you'd get from a good same depth box squat because you can lower, right? You can get a bench, you can go a little lower, a little higher. They're all, they're pretty close. Okay, from a muscle building perspective, yes. Even from functional and strength, like the carry over, like your box squat goes up, so does your barbell squat. Your barbell squat goes up, so does your box squat. It's so close that the carry over and the functional strength and all that stuff is, I mean, I don't want to say identical because it's not identical, but it's pretty damn close. So Kyle is training a couple of my family members right now. And one of their frustrations with them, and they're all north of 50. Yeah. Okay. One of their frustrations, and it's so funny when they communicate to me thinking that I'm going to defend them against Kyle and go, feel like, you know, to Kyle, you need to go push my aunt and my mother-in-law harder and load them more. And he continues to take them through more and more mobility work and telling them, like, no, we're just, we're not there yet. You need to do more of this. You need to do more of that. It's because he's a good trainer. Yeah, and they want him to push the weight and push more because that's what they think is going to get them better results. And he continues to stick to his guns and tell them that they need to work on these, they just lack the mobility. He's like, there's no reason for me. Sure, I could load a box squat on you just so I could put more weight and challenge that. Or I can continue to work on a greater range of motion or depth in your squat. And that's going to be far more beneficial from an overall health perspective and longevity. The way he's going is not going to build muscle faster because he's not doing the heavy loaded box squats. Oh, I'll argue that it will because if he does it wrong, they'll hurt themselves. They're not going to get faster results doing it wrong. By the way, I'm here in the morning and I watch him train. He knows he's very good. Yeah. He really, he's a really good trainer. No, I know that's why I defended him. Yeah. When they were all red, thought I was going to jump on their bell. I was like, no, what you need to do is fucking listen to your trainer. That's what I said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, again, like I'm kind of milling this over because it takes me a second to kind of think of the characteristics like I really want for like the person that's over 40. Yeah. And that's why I said like something fast, but like, you know, for me, like I like those choices. So I'd like to box squats for, for the, the buy loaded, you know, being able to really focus on strength and like that's something that, again, to your point of like it kind of reducing some bit of the risk. I find value in that one. But in terms of like adding in the instability component, that's where I would probably lean more towards like a Bulgarian split squad as a follow-up to that. But then also the sled drive a hundred percent. I'm on board with that. So I like this hex, hex bar, deadlift. I like the sled. We can all agree on the sled and then a Bulgarian or a lunge. So here's why you have a, you have a stability component in that unilateral work for them. They can build tremendous strength on Bulgarian squats just like they can on a, on a box squat and, and you have stability that's involved in that. You can buy your speed. The hip thrust. Explain the, yeah. Hex bar. Oh, why he wants that. Okay. So first off to be controversial. No. No. Here's why. Look, first off to the, the reason why I put sled and I didn't include a split stance. Actually, although I look Bulgarians and lunges and those are all phenomenal. So you get volume in the closet. Well, not just that, but that is a split stance. Actually driving a sled is. Yeah. Yeah. Torquing the pelvis. You can make that case. That's why I put that. You can make a little bit of that case. By the way, the sled also takes care of your, your swings because you could do that with speed. You can run with it. You could run with that. It also trains the foot and the ankle and the calf. We're all in the eight. Yeah. Everybody in here is on the same height. The hip thrust, you could, you could argue too. Like doing a kettlebell swing, you know, I'm doing the same thing. Here's, here's why I put the hip thrust. Hip hinging. Okay. Hip thrust floor bridges, very similar, whatever. I put hip thrust because it's more of a, you know, obviously more of a muscle builder. It is one of the best back protecting exercises you can do in general population with people who maybe lack the mobility, strength and stability to do other exercises. I could do a hip thrust or a hip bridge. I wish the reverse hyper was more popular. Yes. Yes. That would be it. But I could do a hip bridge or hip thrust with almost anybody. That was actually one of my most effective back strengthening, lower back relieving exercises. So I feel that way about a Hexbar deadlift. Okay. I don't, I don't think I've ever had. Somebody comes to you with back pain. You haven't do a Hexbar deadlift? Well, no, you, you regressed that first, but I've never, I've never had a client ever, ever, ever, who we, we did not Hexbar, get to a point where we could Hexbar deadlift. Sure. But let me put it this way. Always. You get an over 40 person average, not like super extreme one, one direction and they're like, yeah, I got back pain. My low back kind of hurts or whatever. What's going to make their low back feel better right now and get stronger and reduce the risk of injury right now. Floor bridge or hip thrust. Yeah, bridging. Over a deadlift, which deadlifts are amazing for that. It just takes time to get there. Yeah, but now you're isolating to a very small percentage of just everybody who's over 40. So to say that these are the three general lifts that you like, that you. It's not perfect. This is going to be, but. I know. I mean, it creates a good discussion, by the way. Totally. That's why, yeah. It's a good discussion. What's interesting about this discussion is what everybody agrees on the sled. So that just, to me, that's the big stand out. Like that's how powerful that is for a 40 plus. Yeah. You can build strength with that. You can regress that. Come on, man. It's, it's, you get, you get the unilateral type of work there. You get speed out of there. Foot, ankle. That's, that's, that's a, that's a king in there for sure. And, and for all the reasons too, if you're dealing with potentially, I, I mean, I just, I like the hex bar deadlift and I like a Bulgarian or a lunge in there. That's, I just would prefer those over, over the, the, the bar, the barbell box. So I'm, so here's what I, here's the three general things that I put in there. And there's other exercise that could fall in this category. There's a squat. So that, that would be the box squat. Could be a barbell squat. So there's a squat. There's a squat. There's a split stance something with, with a full extension, which includes the ankle and the foot. Addressing stability and strength. Yes. And that's all lower body too. Cause there's no, otherwise there's no other foot or calf or ankle, anything in there. Right. So that's number two. And then there's some kind of a hip extension. Yeah. Hip hinging. Or hip hinging. Right. So what else could go in there? Well, it could be a barbell squat, a box squat, could be a front squat. Those all go in that same category. It could be a lunge, Bulgarian split stance or the, or driving sled. Or maybe just be like a jump in place. Right. Or that, right? Or you could go and then with the hip extension, it could be deadlift, hex bar deadlift. It could be, it could be Romanian deadlift. It could be good morning. Or it could be hip thrust. I chose the ones with the best risk versus reward ratio that I could think of. That's, that's what I did. So pick a squat movement that has a better risk versus reward than a box squat. By the way, what you just did right now is probably the best way to explain to the people that are probably their heads are spinning right now with this, this conversation is. I saved it for the end. I wanted everybody to disagree with me. Yeah. Hey, hopefully they got this. Boom. Or else they already guaranteed, guaranteed 80% already commented on the shit already on fire. Yeah. But what you said right now is that's a real trainer. The real trainer goes, here's the three attributes. Exactly. That are extremely important to me that I want to get with this, this elderly client or north of 40 person. That's what I want to get. Now where I start or what I do has completely to do with the individual. This is the same deductive process I had to go through with like the young athletes. Yeah. And like, okay, I want to establish this, but like this is a little bit too high skill. This is a little bit too high risk. This is a little too much, you know, education I have to implement. So like, how do I distill this down to like the crux of like, what the focus on? Yeah. With box squats, you know, look, MAPS and Ebola, I wrote that a long time ago. Okay. If you look at the original MAPS and Ebola, there's a set of box squats in there before barbell squats. Why did I put box squats on it? Oh yeah, to learn it. Because with my clients, I saw almost, if not the same benefits with box squats that I sell with barbell squats with all my clients and I could get everybody to box squat. I could not get everybody to barbell squat. Yeah. No, you're right. I mean, one of the most, the, one of the greatest regressions as far as like, that I used with clients, that I want is the basic sit down on a bench and get up, which is the same thing. Exactly, same premise. I mean, that is the most obese deconditioned client. Okay. You hold my hand, I sit you down on a bench and you get back up. Yep. And we start to train that pattern. So you can at least, and then I can cue it. Oh no, slide your hips back more. I can start to cue that. Your biggest deterrent a lot of times is depth because it's unfamiliarity. It's, you know, they'll feel like their body's kind of resisting them going a little bit lower. So, you know, to be able to have them sit all the way down, that helps. There's also this, when you lower and change directions for a split second, the weight that is, that you're lowering with becomes heavier because of the change in momentum. So if you go down with 100 pounds on your back, when you go to change directions, it becomes more like 120 pounds. That change in direction at the bottom is a higher risk of injury. A box eliminates that because you lower down controlled, you sit, there's no change in direction, you brace, you get your perfect form, and then you come back up. Whereas you don't have time to do that when you change directions at the bottom of a squat. So really the consideration was, max benefit, minimum risk with all three options. You know what, this conversation for me with, this highlights more than anything else, is why Instagram and TikTok trainers are stupid. Yeah. Because this is a classic example of how you could take... They're just the clickbait of the world. Yeah. You could take any of those exercises and make a viral video, right, to say something controversial or try and take one of those, extract it, and then get a study to support why you're argumentative. And the truth is, training individuals is so much more nuanced than that. Always. Like everything that we just argued about, like there has been a client, there's been 10 clients that I have had to use your scenario, your scenario. Exactly. So the truth is a really good trainer understands the desired outcome is that we got to get something for their foot, ankle, I got to get some sort of unilateral work. I want something somewhat explosive. I want to also weigh in a risk in there. I want to weigh in reward there. What is, what's a regression to that? How am I going to progress this? Like all that stuff, this is like real good training and coaching is the ability to do that. And none of that fits in Instagram or TikTok. Never. Because they're like, you're talking... This is why we started a podcast because it's long form communication. I got to be able to talk about this for a while. I can't do this in, you know, 30 characters or however many characters on Twitter or a short, stupid video. I can't wait till I add your clips. Yeah. I know, it's going to be so awesome. You know who I hope? Can we make bets on like how many... We're going to get the most hate on TikTok. That's right. Hey, listen. I, good. Come at me. I, you know who I hope? You know who I hope? That dumb, idiot, TikTok trainer. I don't even know his name. He's such a moron. We got the dark glasses. Yes, yes, yes. Actually, for hypertrophy, lay press and then the head squats. The way muscle fibers... Shut up, bro. Good, good. I mean, there are some common things that notice that we did all agree on. We didn't say any machine stuff. No. Nothing was machine. No. Okay. Even considering the most deconditioned person, right? Yeah. So that we all agreed on. And this sled, right? Yeah. That to me, that is kind of the cool take away from this too. Right? One, we didn't say fucking any sort of leg press or leg extension or any sort of a machine. That would be, I think, a stupid, that's a bad trainer going that direction. And all of us agree that the sled is such a great universal tool to start almost anyone. You can't use a sled. And who can't benefit from a sled? Yeah. It's almost nobody. Yeah. If you can walk, you can do a sled. Anybody. And everybody. You're an athlete, high-performing athlete, sled. Yeah. You're a total beginner, deconditioned, sled. Your bodybuilder. And it will make you stronger. It's this thing. It's just like, you know, you get fatigued, you just let go. It's as simple as that. I know, I know. I just discovered one of my favorite things to do, and I can't believe this is still happening. I've been working out for so long and it just happened to me again. I just discovered an old exercise that I'm familiar with and I've known about and I've seen a million times and I started using it and I just discovered how valuable it is. And it's the dumbest, silliest, stupidest, it's an exercise you've seen a thousand times. It's a freaking dumbbell side bend. Oh yeah. It's a dumbbell. We were arguing about that, never. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, okay. But I've been doing it too, especially with like a barbell. Yes. For me, it's been money. So obviously I love deadlifting, right? It's my favorite exercise. Barbell feel more manly. Yeah. I'm a little teapot. That's all I can think of. I'm sorry. But that's what I thought. So I love deadlifting. It's one of my favorite exercises. I'm really good at it. It's probably the thing I'm the best at in terms of lifts. And every once in a while, I've got to be careful. If I start to get too heavy, I'll start to notice some stiffness in my back and okay, things will start to bother me and I'll do mobility, whatever. And I don't know why I never thought of this. Like where it's coming from is lateral stability or instability, I should say. And it's always a QL issue for me. Okay. QL is a muscle deep in the core and it does some lateral strength and stability of the spine. And a dumbbell side band where you really hear through the lumbar extend laterally and then contract laterally. So people think it's a, you know, a bleak exercise. Well, not really. It's more, it's a QL exercise. But if you really do it right, you'll feel the QL extend and stretch and then you'll feel it contract. Okay. I have never done an exercise that got, that made my back, whatever little bit of pain I have, not only go away, but my back stability feels like, it feels like I did 10 weeks of mobility work from that exercise alone, doing it twice. Doing it twice. Literally do it, go outside, test it and then see how you feel. I know you've been messing with me. Well, I had, yeah. And I think we're similar in how we got injured, you know, like, because of that shift of weight. And so if you're not accounting for that ever, that lateral stability, it's going to come back to kind of bite you. So to be able to train, strengthen it and get it to respond adequately, like that's a good exercise for that. That's where I go from that. And then I also like consider any rotational forces. Yes. And so that's where the windmill for me, it kind of covers both of those. Absolutely. So what I'm doing right now is I've done it like two or three times only during my deadlift workouts at the end. The day after I feel zero SI joint pain, I feel zero of those stuff I used to feel before. And I'm like, hmm, let's see. I'm going to keep, make sure my form is good, but let's see how strong I can get. Because I'm going to get really strong at that silly exercise. And I feel like if I get really strong at that, I'm going to be bulletproof with deadlifts. And that's how it feels. So I'll do that for your 700 lifts. Let me add to your arsenal then, because I don't think I've ever seen you do this and I was doing this yesterday. So, and this is in the, it's in the vein of like, you supporting yourself laterally when you're doing deadlifting. That's exactly why I was doing it, because I've been feeling this, I like, I've been wanting to go heavier on my deadlifts. And I'm like, every time I do, I'm feeling this. I'm like, okay, I'm neglecting this shit. The assisted McGill planes is fucking amazing. And all I did was literally my body weight, open my hips, let them come down, open my hips, let them come down, open my, and 10 of those controlled on each side for like two or three sets. Isn't that great when you do the movement, that's the solution? You know right away, right? Oh, and then you could, I could just feel how stable my hips felt before I went into the deadlift. It's just, I just never, I just neglected. I never do it. And it's such a great, great movement. I love it. All right. Today's giveaway is the RGB bundle. That's three workout programs, maps, anabolic maps, performance, and maps aesthetic. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video into the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also, there's only one day left for the June special. Maps cardio 50% off, the shredded summer bundle 50% off, and the bikini bundle 50% off. Again, only one day left. So if you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. So speaking of twisting, the media. Let's talk about the media real quick. I just took a turn. Yeah, I know. Dude, the media is a propaganda bullshit machine. It's so bad. It's not even funny. Do you guys want to hear the latest on how they're twisting things? Okay. Who's still watching TV? It's like, yeah. Yeah, that's probably true. It is literally the loudspeaker for special interests. That's all it is. That's it. They don't report anything other than their goal is to influence you. And now I am 100% convinced of this. 100%. This might be what is going on. Now I'm like, for sure. So Bud Light, right? Sales crashing, tanking. They're no longer the top selling beer in America. They're just getting crushed. Articles come out. Bud Light's sales drops, follows a recent trend in all domestic beers. Basically, the article saying, oh, the sales are dropping. All domestic beers. The sales are dropping because people are just buying less domestic beer. And I've seen several articles like that. Really? Yes. Target. Target got hammered, right? What they were doing with the pride displays and some of the stuff that, for kids or whatever, hammered. Bomb threats were called in to Target. Ready for this? Buy LGBT activists who are like, you guys caved in and you guys caved in the mob. The report basically makes it look like they were coming from conservatives. White supremacists. Yes. Yes. They also, it gets worse. They also on social media were posting pictures and images of Target stores, Rampage. Oh, I saw this. But that was from the BLM. George Floyd. The BLM riots. Yes. That's great. Oh, my God. I heard they got called out on that one, though. They did. Yeah, I heard they got called out. This is wild. Wait a second. These are the videos from the BLM riots. Dude. How wild is this? Yeah. It's so crazy. I mean, it's so bad. It's so obvious. If they like you, they'll protect the hell out of you. If they don't like you, oh boy, it's on, man. The scary, the unfortunate part about this is even though there's enough people that see it and we're talking about it and obviously you're not the only person that's highlighting it, it's still, there's still a majority that fall for. Correct. You know, it's crazy. I mean, I was actually surprised. I mean, this is kind of off subject, but somewhat along the lines just of how much podcasting growth has slowed down. It really has. And I was kind of scratching my head like what that is. And the more I thought about it, I was like, you know, if you listen to podcasts, you probably fall in the category of reader, like whether you listen to audio books or you read books or like your growth. Yeah. Growth. I mean, unless you're like just purely a murder mystery podcaster, you're normally like, that's kind of a just pure entertainment studies on regular podcast listeners. They tend to be, they tend to be like that. Yeah. More educated, more affluent. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that we're just, we're reaching the peak of that as far as like we've got. There's only so many. There's only so many people like, I'm serious. Most people would rather plug into a Netflix series and binge watch for a week straight and just be mindlessly entertained. So, and that same person. It's hard for me to believe. That same person is also easily manipulated by the media still. Yeah. So I just think that as much as we say here in talk, we're preaching the choir. Everybody who's listening to this podcast, like, I know that the numbers were so substantially higher than, you know, legacy media and like old ways of consuming news. Like to the point where they were, they're destroying and like crushing these old established media companies. And so for me to like, where did, where was that reported? Was that from actually like, again, I would question those numbers because like, I don't know how accurate I would think that. Okay. So here's more. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. So let me address what he's saying first. So you're, what are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that you don't think that maybe it's accurate that the legacy media is dying as much as it is? No. Or that it is. That podcasting is dying. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Unless it's getting ratcheted or numbered. Well, I mean, one of the easiest ways they measure that is by advertising dollars. If you look at Doug, look up a legacy media or a television advertising versus podcast advertising. And it's fucking not even in the same universe. Right. But how, right. But like with the trend though. Yeah. Well, the trend was moving. The trend was moving in podcasting over the last five years, but that has seemed to take a halt. Okay. But hold on. Is this, is the growth slowing or is it negative? There's a difference. Well, it's not negative. Okay. So it's still growing. Just the growth is slowing. It was really, I think, I think it was like a plateau this last year. But then again, we also are also, is all advertising starting to plateau? Cause we're, you know, the economy. Yeah. There's a lot of advertising going out. Again, the easiest way to measure this is through advertising dollars where the money is being spent by big companies. And if it's 70 billion to a few hundred million, it's not even in the same universe. No, no, no. I don't know. And if it's slowing and when it's, when it's that lopsided and if the theory is like, oh, we're going to move everybody's and start moving in this direction, well, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be slowing down. It should be accelerating. Yeah. But is the slow down across the board? In other words, are we seeing a slow down because advertisers are just paying less, advertising less. People are getting laid off. Like for example, Silicon Valley, I don't know if you guys saw this or not, but the tech layoffs, the amount of money people are making is taking a massive hit in places like here in Silicon Valley. So it could just be the overall trend is going down. You know what I'm saying? So that's the thing that we would need to parse out. Yeah. Yeah. That's the question. Again, I don't know. I guess I just try to see like because of most people I talk to now, it's been an introduction to podcasts like over the past month or two. I've seen a lot more people like just all of a sudden like finding their way to it. So I don't know. I just find it's kind of difficult for me to see where else they would go in terms of like their assumption. I just really think that it's a very unique person that listens to, I mean, for the most part, I mean, I know that we've tried to blend somewhat of entertainment with education, but for the most part, we're education. If you listen to us, very few people listen, they're just like, oh, these guys are just so cool and funny. I just like to listen to them talk about. That's not why most people are getting value from the show because we're teaching indirectly, right? We're teaching them about health and fitness and being better dads and all that shit like that. Right? So you have to be a type of person that wants to do that. And that's not a majority. And have the time to sit down and actually. And that. Right. And then in addition to that, you can carve out five days a week, an hour and a half. Like that's a very small percentage of people that actually are doing that. It's a long form of media. To me, it's the same people that listen to audio books. How many people do you guys know that actually listen to audio books to learn and grow and to be better and so on? No, I hear that. I think what Justin's saying is if you look at legacy media versus new media, new media includes all the other crap too. TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, all that stuff, plus podcasting. People are moving. They are moving over. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So yes, I agree that like more and more people, there's plenty of stats to show that more and more people get their news from TikTok and Twitter than they did just five years ago. So that's not not true. But I also think there was this belief, I don't, we believed also that like, oh, you know, television, media, all that stuff is going to completely die. I think it's just shifting. I think we're moving to the Netflix and we're moving to streaming services and stuff like that, which indirectly it will be getting hit with advertising too. Yeah, that's coming, by the way. You guys don't think, by the way, if you don't think that streaming services will not look like television soon, it will. They'll have options like that. They will. They'll have free options. They will. That's what'll happen. They'll eventually, once they garner enough attention. Yeah, it'll be, you can do free with commercials. That's right. Just like what Spotify, the streaming services aren't that different than legacy media. No, no. It's just new companies. Like Spotify is now kicking the ass of whatever, name your favorite channel, and Netflix is now kicking the other channel's ass, but they're going to play the same fucking game. They are, but here's the difference. The difference is now you can get information that isn't necessarily going through the same gatekeepers. So like, you could put out a fake news article. I mean, a fake news report. Okay, so they're different gatekeepers and so they haven't been, they haven't been bought yet. No, no, no. Hear me out. Not true. No, hear me out. Do you have that much faith in Netflix and HBO Max? Not necessarily them, but let me give you an example. You could do a fake news report through the old gatekeepers. Then there could be people with their cell phones going, that's not what's happening, and they boom, post it to social media. Now you can see alternatives. By the way, 100% the media hasn't become more dishonest. What's happened is we've become more aware of their dishonesty. It's always been bullshit. I think it's both. I think it's both. It's always been bullshit. No, no, no. It's both. Here's why it's both. The reason why I'm going to say it's both, it's always been dishonest. I'm not saying that, but it's gotten increasingly more because more and more of it's driven by clicks and they've learned that. They've learned, oh wow, the more extreme we go. We weren't aware of that. The marketing has evolved. It's like marketing has always evolved and we've learned over time, like, oh, when we say crazy, you outlandish bullshit, it gets way more views, shares, and clicks. I think that. So it's a combination of what you're saying. I don't think it's more. It's not as dishonest. You can't tell me in the 50s it was more dishonest than what it is today. Look, no way. Okay, I'll tell you what. What was the news report that finally tipped the scales that got us to go to Vietnam? I'm not saying that it wasn't dishonest, Sal. I'm not saying there wasn't dishonest. Hold on a second. Everything is dishonest now. No, no, no, there's a difference. There's a difference now, okay? Why don't we weigh in with the only person that was around here in the 50s? He was part of that greaser gang. Doug was like 25 around that time, right? He's always 1850s. Listen, listen, listen. Doug does have more. No, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on a second, hold on a second, okay. When the Gulf of Tonkin didn't happen but they reported that it did, and that's what drove us into Vietnam, very few people questioned it. There was no counter-information. Sal, you're not- It was all bullshit. You're okay. It's a mass destruction. You can name a handful of things, okay? You can name a handful of things that you're pointing out right now. I can name a handful of things this week that the media- Only because you're more aware. Only because you're more aware. It's a combination of both. We are more aware and we've gotten worse. I don't think so. Yes, we have. Can you chime in here? You know, you're asking me a question that I can't really answer, simply because I've been going down to rabbit hole over here about ad revenues, so. Here's the thing, you send me off on these cases. He's like, remember when you told me to look the subs? Yeah, I've been over here trying to figure this out. We should delegate it to Andrew because Andrew can't answer this one because he's only in a young buff. So you want to ask me the question now. The question is this, here's the debate. Is media more dishonest today or are we just more aware of how dishonest they've been? Because they've been dishonest like this for a long time? Yeah, I think they've been dishonest for a very long time. Okay. However- You just frame that argument for you to win that. My argument is, I'm not arguing if it wasn't dishonest before, it's more dishonest today than it was in the 50s. No, I think we're just more aware. Well, I don't think they- That's the argument. No, so I'll agree with Adam at this point. I think they have to be more dishonest today. Yes, to get clicks and get attention, right? And to counter. Yes. Yes. Thank you. So they've had to ramp up their dishonesty in order to compete. Yes. Let's back up. And that's because marketing is involved over time. They've learned that you've got to do that. Back in the old days, they would say anything everybody would believe. That's right. And so they can just lie. Oh, one time, I'm going to lie. We're done. They were trying to buy in the swing voters a lot more back in the day, right? So now everybody's so split, they can directly target market. I'm going to use an example that we're all- That all of us- Bro, it's always been dishonest. Just wait in. It's always been dishonest. It's always been dishonest. Just submit. You lost. Listen, ever since the creation, ever since the creation of the CIA and the Cold War, this was a big deal. This is done. We know this. Look, I'm going to give you an example we can all remember. Everybody remembers. Hold on. Don't interrupt me. Everybody can remember 9-11, September 11. Why was it so controversial? Because we had people recording it. People saw it. If that was in the 1950s, nobody recorded it. Nobody would have questioned it. Yeah. We question things- You just believe authority. We now question things more. We have more counter-information. So for every piece of bullshit, we have people like that video target. So do you think- So along your lines- Yeah. Do you think that marketing hasn't evolved and changed since the 50s? Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. We get smarter. We get better in everything that we do. One of the things that we've learned over the last 50 years is how valuable and how much, by saying crazy outlandish shit gets us more attention. That has evolved and changed. It has gotten worse. Yeah, yeah. It has not stayed the same and we're just more aware of it today. That plays a role, Sal. But it is definitely worse today. So they were more honest before is what you're saying. More than they are today. That doesn't mean they weren't dishonest and there wasn't lots of dishonesty. I'm not saying that. I agree with that. But it is way more rapid today. Yeah. You can go on right now and you can see like 10 different arguments on something that's all outlandish in every direction. No, I think it was a different form of it. Right? People like to be- Back then, people like to be lulled into like the state of comfort. Correct. To Doug's point, they agreed. So they didn't require more lying, more deceit. It requires, because of your point of it becoming more aware, now it requires more layers of lying and more layers of deceit. But that's not because of what you're saying. That's because there's now counter-information that is making it harder. We're more aware. We're far more aware of the bullshit. That's all it is. We were either I suppose. No one's disagreeing that we're more aware. No one disagrees with that. I 100% agree with that. And so that's obvious. But I do think it is worse today than it was then. Well, I think it's because we are aware that they're ramping up the lies. I think you're both right. Look at Doug trying to be friends with everybody. I'm Switzerland here. I'm Switzerland. Circular conversation. We're all going to stare at you and no one's going to say a word until you pick a side. Pick a side, stay with me. Pick a side. This is a typical debate. Now you think about like history, right? It's written by the victors. Yeah. His story, right? Oh, wow. So advertising and media is owned by corporations. And their corporations have a vested interest in having the story that they want put out there to be put out there. And so I think traditionally it's always happened over time with the invention of handheld cameras, with the invention of now, especially smartphones, as people become more aware and aware. Nobody's arguing that. Hold on a second. Dinosaures aren't real. Vietnam is a good example, because Vietnam was the first war, Vietnam was the first war where you had people in the field recording and right away, and we saw what was going on, the horrors. We didn't see that in World War II or the wars. People were like, what the hell is going on? This is absolutely insane. Kennedy got assassinated. We had that recorded. That recording caused a lot of controversy. Had it not been recorded, people would have just... Another way this argument falls flat on its face is that 50 years ago, there was like three sources of news. That's what I'm saying. People just were not aware. You didn't need to lie as much. You have to lie more to get attention. Just a competitive argument alone makes your argument fall flat. You bring up two very controversial things that are still debated today in terms of like 9-11 and JFK, right? And there's been recent information and developments for both of those that we just came to talk about because people are so entrenched in whatever they were told decades ago. And so you can't even bring that up as developing information. People won't fucking receive it. Look this up. Look, this is real. I'm not making this up. Everybody right now, go operation Northwoods. Look that up. This was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This literally almost happened. You know what it was? This was literally put in front of JFK. The plan was to fake a terrorist attack in Miami and blame the Cubans to gain support for an invasion of Cuba. He said, no, we're not doing that. A fake terrorist attack. This was literally signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. So this is a real thing. This is declassified. And you're thinking like, what? They would never do that again, would they? They would never play this out again. They would never. Yeah, bro. Yeah, dude. How naive. I know. All right, let's get out of here because this is getting a little too heated. I'm going to say something nice about Justin, and not necessarily because he agrees with me. Not because he picked my side. We need another partner, by the way. We need an odd number. Andrew, pick a side. I was going to say Justin looks really good because is it because you're super fit or is it because of the shirt? What's going on? I mean, I was hoping it was the fit part, but also the fit itself. You've been rocking more of the state and liberty shirts, I see. I have like white, black, navy blue now. It's the shirt that you wouldn't even know when you find something that just fits you and like a glove. Yeah. Well, what they do is it's got white shoulders and a tapered waist. Yeah. Now, you have both. I actually don't have any state livery t-shirts. Love them. So I've got their favorite suit collection like crazy, but I do not have their t-shirts. They're all tailored, or they feel like they're tailored for athletes because even t-shirts, you ever buy a t-shirt tight on your arms but it's all big on your waist? Yeah. And then you have this like dressy blouse. Does it feel more or less dressy than Viore's t-shirts or the same? Where would you put it in this? Like, how would you like... So I feel like Viore has a little more breathability. It's like... So this is like, it's compressed, right? More fitted. It's more fitted. And so it's like, I don't want to work out in it as much because I'll get like sweaty. Okay. So it's more like you could, you would dress that up before you would dress the Viore stuff up. Yeah. Viore, more athleisure wear, more athletic feel. Exactly. When I'm wearing my Viore pants... Because you could actually take that shirt. So what I did with mine was I took that t-shirt, something similar, and put the sport coat and the slacks on it. And it looked like I was wearing... Yeah, I can... Well, I mean, he's wearing it with like that so it dresses that up. So that's how you would decide that with like, okay, if I was going to go work out, you would probably be rocking Viore. Oh, Viore, yeah. But if you're like, I'm going to dress like casual, nice. It's comfortable, but it is like it's definitely something more nice. Did you guys see the DM we got from... I think it was a bride or a bride-to-be. She's like, all of my groom and all the groom's men need to get suits. They all work out. Oh, yeah. So they went through state and liberty. Oh, they did. Oh, wow. I'm actually... We've been missing each other. I'm supposed to connect with the guys. I mean, supposedly it's been doing really well. So another one of those brands where I wasn't sure, like, you know, how big of the audience would go that way. But I mean, it makes sense. Like it's... It's just not a lot of suit companies that tailor to athletic fit men. And they did such a great job. And I mean, I love their stuff, but I haven't got a shirt. So I'll have to get some t-shirts. Oh, yeah, you'd love it, dude. Did you guys hear that one of our wrestling heroes from when we were kids in the 80s passed away? Who? Iron Sheik. Oh, Iron Sheik passed away, dude. Yeah. How old is he? He used to rock those like Persian meals and like swing those around. Oh, yeah. So he used to have the big clubs. Yeah, the big clubs. Yeah, he would go, like when he'd do his interviews and stuff. Did he really? Yeah. And I don't know what they were when I was a kid. I didn't know. That's interesting. I bet if you type in his name and look up images, you'll see him getting interviewed by, you know... Why, Doug, look at that. Please tell me you saw the little boy who got off the bus for school and did the Stone Cold Steve Austin thing. So funny. Did you guys see that? The last day of school. So Andrew thinks it's the same kid who did the Hulk Hogan impression. Now, you remember that video, right? The kid who met Hulk Hogan at the supplement store and that video went viral. Oh, I need all you years old, but now I'm 60 years old. So now we've got to take it to a bigger level, man. Just like when you press that, no good stinky giant over your head and slam them right through the cabin in front of 93,000 Hulkamaniacs. So what are they going to do with the power of the Hulkster and the Roaster and the dual 24-inch python run wild on you? So Andrew thinks it's the same kid. Andrew, you got to dig and find out if it's the same kid because that kid is like talented as hell. There's the Irish. You know, I met him back in... I thought he was leaner. I didn't realize he was that thick. He was a big boy. He was a real wrestler, by the way. He was 81 when he passed. He was 81. Oh, that's old for a pro wrestler. Pro wrestlers don't typically live very long. So I met him a long time ago and you could tell he had some injuries and stuff. But he was an actual wrestler. I think if you look up his history, he was a high-level Olympic... Weren't most those guys, like most those guys that were in the early... the early like wrestlers were like crossover guys. A lot of them were. Yeah, I thought that was... A lot of them were, yeah. He was like a really good wrestler. He was, yeah. There he is. There's a picture of him. So was he Olympic? There, Doug, the one underneath that picture that you're on right there. Oh, yeah. Is that Olympic? Let me double-check. Is that him? Yeah, so... Bro, he looks so different without the mustache and stuff. Yeah. Now, who do you wrestle for? Iran? Iran, yes. By the way, I don't know if you guys know this. Iran has a really long pedigree of wrestling. Oh, yeah? Yes, one of the best countries in the world for that style of wrestling, Olympic wrestling. You know, speaking of him dying and you're saying 81, he just reminded me of the John Deloni talk because I finally washed it with Katrina the other night. Man, he did that thing where you... I've never done this. I don't think I would do this. I don't like this. I don't know if any of you guys would do this. Where he put how many weeks he's lived in his life. I know. And then how many he's supposed to. Have you seen... He really puts in perspective. Yeah, that's why I didn't like it. I don't want to do that. Kind of dark. He lived till 90, right? Or something like that. I think only 85, I think is what he put. I think he put 85 or something. So it's like a graph and each box that's colored in is a week that he's already lived. And then the white boxes are how many weeks he has left if he lives till he's 85. And you can see, like, holy shit, like my life is closing in. Yeah. I mean, we all, obviously, you know that if basically we're all in our 40s. So you kind of know that we're kind of at the halfway. And I know that's what the over the hill thing is supposed to all be, right? So we're, I know that, but visually be thrown in my face like that. I don't know if I liked. I think that's too much information, honestly. Me too. So you're on board with that. Oh, yeah. That's too much for me. Would you guys do that? Especially since my little white squares are skinnier. That's not true. I would put yours like, you're going to be the guy who has the 110 out of us. You're going to be at Arfun Rolls, Doug. There's a good chance of it. I don't look forward to that day. Every, okay. We're eight years together now, right? You get the whole business, Doug. We eight going on nine. It's all mine. We're eight going on nine, right? Years together. Yeah. Like the actual business. We were actually talking a year before almost, right? Yeah. So, you know, we're going on like night to end. Every year that goes by, we look significantly older and you look younger compared to us. There was a time where you definitely look like the older guy of all of us. That time is gone. I bet you now, if we were to meet people who don't know who we are, this is like they just met my pump like last week. And we were all together and we made them guess our ages. You would not be close. You would not be picked as the oldest for sure. Yeah. I think I'd win that one. Yeah. Only because you rock all your grays now. Oh, bro. Yeah, yeah. Shit I go through. You see that I posted the old video we did, the maps anywhere. I know. I want to bring back. So there's a lot of old stuff that does. The old ads that we did before, I mean we were finding out. And I actually think we gave up on them too early because we just, we did them early when the, the podcast wasn't big enough to actually feel like the true response. Because I tell you what, when I share some of that old stuff, I get so much, like I want to, Doug and I were going back to the old rabbit hole when he used to run the Instagram. Oh my God. Yes. Oh my God. Okay. So I just remember when you're talking about ads, like do you remember the one we did for Chimera where I walk into you guys and you have like cocaine lines. Like we're doing lines of coffee. Coffee dude. I was like that's so inappropriate. What was wrong with us? I loved it though. I just said that was the kid by the way. It is Andrew. It's the same kid? Yeah. That's the whole thing. He's got his own page. Oh, he's got his own page? What a little badass. What's his, what's his Instagram? It's called roe underscore knows underscore wrestling. It's roe ROW, ROE. ROW. ROW underscore knows. He's like, there's like videos of him. You wrote it. RO though. The baseball team. Oh, what a little badass. This is his thing. Okay. Roe. So ROW underscore. Oh, these, these are super. Oh, RO. RO. What a little badass. Hey, did you guys, How big is this falling? Yeah, what's he at? Oh, we're going to blow him up right now. Let's blow this kid up because he's talented. Did you guys ever practice those pro wrestling moves in the 80s on your friends when you were little and hurt somebody during that? I'm trying to think which one's like the stone cold stunner. And what was the one that Triple H did? He was like the, the, like, I don't know. He like, it was on top of him. And then so, so I did the camel pedigree or something. I did iron sheik's camel clutch on my cousin and hurt him. That's, that's a messed up ass move. What with the Boston crab? Isn't that like that one hurts? Yeah. That's a catch wrestling submission. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. There it is. Wow. Dressed up as Hogan. That's great. I want to see it. I want to see it. You got us half committed. Wow. What a little talented kid, huh? Oh, yeah. That's great. That's awesome stuff. That's funny. Good call on that, Andrew. Andrew spotted that right away when I saw that. He was like, oh, that's like, that's the Hogan kid. I was like, oh, I didn't even know. That's awesome. Hey, Adam, you're going to like this because you're, you're such a business guy. Have you seen these, what's going on right now on social media where they're showing how much money you could save if you move from New York to Florida? No. I don't know if it's like, I don't know if it's like like, I don't know if Ron DeSantis and their team are trying to do this. You know, our boy Brandon Carter did that. That was his big move, right? He went down and bought a place down in Miami and lives, you know, six months and one day out of the year down there. If you make, I'll use a big number and then I'll use a more realistic number. But if you make $650,000 and you go from New York to Florida, you'll save $200,000 in taxes. Oh my God. If you make $150,000 and you go from New York to Florida, you'll save $50,000 in taxes. That's how big of a difference it is. See, if you have obviously not everybody, but check this out, you know, like that has to be, okay, what is the, it's still at 50% of people have come back to work, right? So if you've got a remote working job, at one point it makes sense to buy a place over there and live, you know, six months in one day out of the year. Especially if it almost pays for the mortgage. It says you can leave the winter months. You're snowing shit. Go to Miami. Beautiful there. Well, I mean, figure, okay, so you said $150,000. So pick something in the middle, $150,000, $650,000. So you're talking about someone saving $100,000. That's a, you know, $8,000 a month mortgage that's negated by just having that there. Yeah, I know. That becomes like a new, I mean, at what point... And that's not a long flight, right? New York to Florida. I mean, this is California, right? Same, very similar. So at what point does California and New York get to the point where it's like they got to figure out a way to change that or they're going to keep... Is New York bleeding as much as California is bleeding? Yeah, I mean, they were the two spots in the U.S., right? They had the highest economies, right? Both... That's why they can get away with it, right? Well, I mean, currently, but, you know, how long, I mean, in terms of everybody exiting, leaving and like companies leaving... Well, Florida exploded. They attracted people. California bled. Those are the two comparable states, I would say. New York is bled. So maybe Doug is better at this when it comes to tax stuff. If I work for... Say I worked for Google, okay? And I got a job here in the Silicon Valley. But now I'm a remote Google worker. I go, I want to move to Nevada. I want to move to Florida and still work for Google, which is that Google where I got my employment is California. Am I still going to be held liable for California taxes? I mean, if you're an actual resident of those states... No, no, no. I say I move out of California. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If you become a resident of those states, then Google would need to pay you as a resident of that state. Yeah. Okay. So that's where you get... Because that was the one draw. I was thinking, okay, wait a second. What if you got employed though by somebody? You're in New York. You got employed with a company that's based in New York. And then you're like, no, I don't want to... You know what's interesting about taxes? Well, isn't this perfect? I have the shirt on today. We're talking about taxes. You know what's interesting about... What did you say? What is that? This is Ron Paul, bro. Taxation is theft. If we didn't get kicked off a wheel now. It was gangster glasses. What's interesting about taxes is... I don't know what the number is. I can't remember, but there's a number of... We've never collected more than this percentage of the total economy. Regardless of the tax rate. Okay. So high taxes, lower taxes, whatever. We've never been able to collect more than this percentage of the economy. Now, what does this mean? This means that you can raise taxes super high, but because you raise taxes, you crush innovation, you crush business. Total taxes come back as the same or less. So, for example, 70% of 100 is less than 40% of 300, right? Or 600 or whatever. Because the economy gets crushed with the higher tax rate, you think you're going to collect more. You end up clicking the same amount or less because you reduce overall productivity. And I can't remember what the number is. There's an actual number. Well, I remember... When I look at the history of the US, regardless of the tax rate, this is the most we could ever collect. Well, I remember when I was in my 20s, and I was on this like every year from like 20 up until I was almost 30, I made a little more, a little more, a little more, a little more every single year. And I remember getting to a place, once I crossed over like 80, 90K a year, and then I was in all the way up to like 120, 130, the difference of the money you take home is so, for the amount of work I had to put in to make that extra to get to from 80 to 120, didn't justify what I was going to actually taking home because as I moved up that ladder, I was also moving up the tax bracket. And so I was doing all this extra work just to stretch myself to that 120, 130 mark. And yet I felt like I was still making 80 or 90K a year. It was so frustrating. Some of the highest tax revenues that we've ever collected. Which my point is that, my finish with hot is that that made me not want to work more. Correct. Do more. Correct. Not just that, less more taxes or more money to taxes means less money for companies and individuals to innovate and invest and grow. Okay. So it's not just you're less motivated. It's also I got less capital to go out and Can hire help. Integrate these. So some of the highest, you know, decades or years of tax revenue collection in America were not when we had the highest tax rates. It was when the economy was crushing. When the economy is crushing, even if we have a lower tax rate, we collect more because things are crushing. So this is always the balancing that people have to understand when it comes to tax rates. It's like, you can raise taxes that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to collect more money though. Because if you crush business with this, you're going to collect less or the same because of the truth that has nothing. It has very little do anything with our economy. GDP. None of that is to take it into account. It's literally about growing government. It's always about taxation is always about creating more, more, more government, bigger government. That's the whole, the whole purpose of it. If they ever try to sell you, that's them pissing down your back and telling you it's raining. Yeah. With no accountability. Yeah. Here you go. What did that say there? According to this, the federal government, this is in 2022, spent $6.3 trillion. And tax dollars were $4.9 trillion. Yeah. So what's the rest? 78%. Well, you know, you create other taxes called inflation by printing more money. Yeah. More debt, you know, that type of thing. So we're getting taxed one way or another. Yeah. Well, you know what the problem with this is? Is that most people don't understand all of this. They definitely don't understand inflation. So how, and we have a democracy where we elect people. So now you're a politician and let's say you want to be honest and tell the truth. Be like, hey guys, listen, we can't pay for all this shit. Like Ross Bra. Yeah. Remember we did that? Yeah. We can't pay for all the stuff. So we're not going to give you all this free stuff. The next thing that comes up is we can totally pay for this stuff. We're going to, we're going to tax the other guy over there and it's all good. You get all free stuff. Like you're not going to win. So it always goes down that, that route. It just keeps growing. The, the beast keeps on, keeps on moving forward. Consuming. I know. I know. Crappy. I know we, we have organized. Did I see, did I see you pulling out pure again? I'm using pure again. I love it. It's the most, it's one of the best. Besides the green juice, pure is one of the best feeling products I have. That's one of those. I always just need a reminder and then I'm going to be right back on board. I just feel good. I just feel good when I take it. We've got a meeting with them coming up. I'm really curious to hear what it's about. We haven't actually talked to Drew in a while and they reached out and I think Katrina scheduled for us for next week sometime. So I don't know, like something to do with doing, either they got something else coming out or they want, they wanted to do more with our partnership. Remember last time we talked with them, remember he was wearing that, I don't wear that jacket. It was like a Michael Jackson or Sergeant Petra. Bro, he's got some serious style. Yeah. He just, he's just, remember that? It was like a red with like, I love Drew. Yeah, he's a really nice guy. He is. He's a character. And you know, to talk about his brilliance and humility to scale something to the size that he did. I mean, I don't know where Organifi's numbers are today. I know they're north of a hundred million dollar company, which is a pretty damn big company. And he had to wear with all early on in that business to step aside and allow someone else to run it. It takes a lot, knowing what we know and where we're at in this business, like imagine you like relinquishing your roles as executives and giving that the keys to somebody else when you're in the middle of building a scaling. That takes a lot, man. It does. That takes a lot. Especially when you built it. Yeah. Takes a lot of trust. Takes a lot of balls. Takes a lot of humility. Imagine if you did that, right? Like Steve Jobs, right? Like say, imagine if you did that and then you saw Mind Pump go in the wrong direction. Oh. Panic. Especially since, I mean, you know, we talked to remind me to bring this up because it would be interesting to hear from him that if it was, as soon as he stepped aside, was it like a rocket ship and just kept going? Or did they go through a little bit of a lull and transition of the changing of the garden and stuff like that? Because you're right. Like I can't imagine bringing another executive in, stepping back our roles and say, okay. And then watching them go in the wrong direction. Yeah. And even if it wasn't going the wrong, it was just kind of really being stagnant. You'd be like, oh my God, like I got to take it back and then having trust and faith. Like, okay, it's going to take time. Because that's your legacy. Yeah. All right. So shout out. I wanted to shout out Jason Kalipa. Good friend of ours. He's a CrossFit God. Super nice guy. I haven't talked to him in a while. Super nice guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. Just a machine, physical machine. I think his Instagram is just at Jason Kalipa. Kalipa's K-H-A-L-I-P-A. There's a foundation that he always points to, right? What's it called? Yeah, it's a Jesse Reese Foundation. And this is for child cancer research? Exactly. Correct. You know, I don't know if I ever told you guys this. I don't know if he knows either of that. I actually saw him. You remember Austin Begeving? Yeah. Okay. So you remember Austin, right? Yeah. So, yeah, a name that probably I haven't heard in a long time. So he, him and I worked together at Capitol McKee 24. This was my first one. So I'm 20, you know, barely 21 or two or something like that. And he eventually went over to work for Milpitas. And this was before CrossFit was like a thing, right? Before anybody knew what it really was. It was still underground coming from Santa Cruz. Yeah. And just like small pockets were doing it. And he called me up and he's like, hey, you got to come check this CrossFit thing out. They have one of their little games that was happening in the parking lot. And so you got to watch this Jason Khalifa kid. And so he was only like 18 years old. So I actually watched him just like destroy all these men at like 18 years old in a parking lot at Milpitas. Wow. So if he hears this like, I don't think I've ever told him that. He's still a moose man. Oh, he was a beast back then. I don't know exactly how old he was, but I know he was younger than me. He's younger than us. And I was only, I was in my early 20s. So he had to been a baby. And I remember him just, he just destroyed everybody. It was even close. Super nice guy. Seed makes the world's best probiotic. So if you want to improve your gut health, reduce gut inflammation, improve cognitive function, have better skin, basically be healthier. And you've read about the benefits of beneficial bacteria. Go with seed. They're the leaders in the industry. Go check them out. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump, use the code mind pump and get 30% off your first month's order of seeds, daily symbiotic. All right. Back to the show. First question is from Min 10. Does strength really improve bone density? Hearing that it may not be true. Oh, there's nothing will improve bone density like building muscle and strength. Nothing. So remember muscle anchors on bone. Yeah. The stimulus that causes and the stress that causes muscle to build and strengthen is the same that causes bone to strengthen. If you look at the studies on osteopenia, osteoporosis, bone density, the best intervention you can do that's non-medical or pharmaceutical or whatever is just weight-bearing exercise. It makes... Existence strengthens all of the tissues. I mean, it's... I don't know where they're hearing otherwise. Like where is this information coming from that says it's not strengthening bone doing resistance training? Yeah, we've known this for a long time. I mean, remember you've brought up before too, the, I mean, long bowman, how that can start to impact like even the shape of your bones and structure. So to think that resistance training is not having a positive impact on strengthening and supporting your bones would be ridiculous. Oh, it's incredible. I had a client. I've told the story a long time. You know, I wonder if this is... Sorry to cut you off. I wonder if this is the movement that's happening right now to be like anti-lifting weights and stuff like that. Of course. I bet. Yeah, it's stupid. So I had a client. I haven't talked about this in a while. I had a client years ago who had osteopenia, was healthy. And it was just, she was slowly declining her bone density. And so her doctor was, they put her on, I think it was Fosamax was the drug and some stuff to try and slow down. It wasn't really, you know, it was still happening. She was really worried. She was a professor and she was teaching a class and she would share things with her class. And one of her students used to work for me and says, hey, I know this guy named Sally. He owns a studio. You should hire him as a trainer. Strength training is supposed to be good for it. So she did. She hired me. And we did very basic strength training. She was in her, at the time, I want to say she was in her late 50s, early 60s. And she wasn't a big woman. She was petite. So not, not strong. But we did traditional strength training and I'll never forget. It was, I want to say six months of strength. It was less than a year. She went and got her bone density test. Her doctor tested her again because he didn't believe the results. Contacts me and says, this, I've never seen anything like this. What are you doing with this woman? I said, squatting, pressing, growing traditional strength. Did he end up using her as like a case study? They made her a case study because of the, of the impact. So if you lift, if you have strong muscles, unless there's some something weird going on or really out of the ordinary, you have strong bones. Just the way it works. Next question is from Calico. What are your thoughts on programs like body pump for getting lean? Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Any, what is it? Just a pure circuit training. Body, yeah, body pump. It's cardio. It's cardio. Group X classes. It's a Les Mills group class with trash. Yeah. And it's, I'm just going to say it's trash. It's with barbells and dumbbells. But really what it is is just, they were, they're capitalizing on strength training. Yeah. But it's in a circuit fashion. It's cardio. It's really no different. Yeah. Save your money and go for a run. You're going to get the same type of benefits. You're getting very, very little benefits of building muscle and a body pump class. Now you guys mentioned it. And it was like a shortened range of motion wraps. Yeah. It's where they get the little plastic weights. Remember they had the like steps. And the little step. And it's like you're stepping and curling. I remember this now. And stepping and curling and pressing and doing a little docy dough. And then you, it's like that whole class is moving and lifting weights at the same time. And then you have the group dynamic where everybody's like going too fast. Like zero rest period. The only rest period is setting your step, their stacks up or changing the weight that they do every once in a while. It's a step class with weights. Now that doesn't mean there's no benefit. I mean it's movement. And there's always, as long as you don't hurt yourself or overdo it, as long as it's appropriate, it's healthy to move. Yeah. It's just not strength training. Yeah. It's healthy to move. But is there any, is there benefits with a body pump class like you get from strength training? No. Zero. It's cardio. It's no different than any other form of cardio, except you're moving the rest of your body or whatever, but really doesn't make that big of a difference. So if you want the benefits of strength training, strength training, strength training is, has less to do with the fact that you're lifting weights. Okay. Bear with me. More of the fact that you rest in between sets. How you lift weights. Yes. It's about the, you do a set of eight, 12, 15 reps with high enough intensity, right? You got to create tension. And then you rest for two minutes. And then you repeat it. That rest is what makes it strength training. The no rest is what makes it cardio. And all these, I don't want to say all, but all the ones I know of, of group classes with weights are cardio. None of them are real, or that I've seen are real strength training. And I guess I should be clear on that, right? That when I say something like it's trash, it's better than you sitting on the couch and watching TV. Right. Okay. That's, we're not compared, but if you, when you talk about, is it the best way to get lean? First of all, cardio is not even the best way to get lean, right? So the question is, is body pump a good for getting lean? Well, first of all, cardio is definitely not the best way to get lean in the first place. And so doing a class that is inferior weight training in a cardio fashion is like up there with one of the worst ideas for your approach to getting lean. You'd be far better off doing traditional strength training or saving your money and just doing cardio if you're going to go that route, which is still not a great way to get lean. That's right. You know, the calories that you burn, why you move, your body quickly adapts, learns to burn less calories, oftentimes by paring muscle down. So that's why it's not effective. And studies confirm this. The effective, the most effective way to exercise for fat loss is to train in a way to increase, yeah, preserve or build muscle to speed up your metabolism so you burn more calories at rest all the time. And that's not what body pump does. Next question is from KCDS Smith. Can you take mobility too far such as knees over toes guy? Well, there's a special, okay, can you look up that move because I'm not familiar with that. I like his content. I love him. We're probably going to support what he says. I'm on point with most of the videos I've seen. First let's define mobility. Mobility is not flexibility. Flexibility is a component of mobility. But mobility, the way that we talk about it is the ability to move through different ranges of motion with strength, control and stability. Okay, under that context, can you go too far with that? No, no you can't. If you can move in greater ranges of motion and still maintain good control, good stability and good strength, then it's great. It's great. And the greater the ranges of motion that you can do with all that strength and stability and control, the better because you have wider ranges of movement and strength. Click on her Instagram. And also the work that went into a lot of those ranges of motion, like I guess like just jumping in and watching a video of him doing something where it's like an extreme range of motion that he's worked his way towards, like that looks like risky. It looks like a lot of risk of injury. But at that point, there's a whole, there's a whole period of working your way up progressively towards like strengthening each one of those parts of that range of motion. Yeah, I don't like, so this Vanja moves or Vanja moves, however you say it, I'm not familiar with her. So it's tough to comment on someone I haven't gone through their content. But what I can tell you about Knees Over Toes Guy, which is his name's Ben, something I forget his last name. Oh, he's legit. He is legit. And I've heard him talk in long form and communicate what he is teaching and training. Scroll up, Doug, a little bit. So what I don't like people to do is to look at some viral girl like this who we're looking at right now on Instagram and you see some crazy, you know, flexible thing that she does and then you want us to comment on it. No, I like her. Oh, that's too far. I'll tell you why I like her. There's two posts right now that I like. The one says stretching will not make you flexible. Love that. Scroll down a little bit, Doug. Look at the next one. Stop stretching. Start strengthening. Just based off of those two, I think we can probably estimate or guess that she knows what she's talking about. Because you can take stretching too far. You can give yourself so much flexibility that you have no strength and stability within your new range of motion. And now you've just made yourself more prone to injury. So strength is a very important component of mobility. I've never heard of this chick. She's got good content. Okay, we're going through her stuff right now and everything actually looks pretty damn good, what I see. Yeah, the only risk, I mean, so yeah, like passive flexibility. There's issues there because like, especially if you're an athlete and you need to have tension, you need to have a tightness in order to be explosive and produce and generate force, right? And so, you know, to have like good fluid movement, you still have to strengthen those ranges of motion to maintain, you know, your ability to have strength in that flexibility. Do you guys remember when that study came out? I want to say it was the late 90s, early 2000s, because the way that people used to warm up back in the day before athletic endeavors with static stretching, we all did this in PE, everybody did this in football and baseball, whatever. And then they did a study and found that static stretching increased risk of injury when people would go exercise. Everybody freaked out, how is this possible? Well, because what you do when you static stretch is you temporarily increase your range of motion, but there's no strength and stability alongside it. So all you've done is made the person more unstable. We used to be taught to breathe your way through and like release, right? And to be able to passively sort of like, end up in that position instead of like really like... Connecting. Connecting, yeah. So it's a totally different intention. Yeah, I love her stuff right now. Like move better, recover faster and bulletproof your joints with strength and mobility. Yeah, she knows what she's talking about. There you go. We'll have her on. I'm going to reach out to her. Next question is from Alexis, athletes. Are there other ways alongside foam rolling and stretching to help release tight muscles? Yes. Okay, here's the deal. Okay, stretching, foam rolling gives you temporary relief because it tells the central nervous system to chill out, tells the CNS to chill out with that tight muscle. But you have to understand why that muscle is tight in the first place, instability, right? So here's what happens. Look, your central nervous system is what tells your muscles what to do. It tells your muscles when they can be relaxed. It also tells your muscles when they need to tighten up. And a good example of this is if you stand up and sit down, your CNS is what told the muscles to contract and squeeze for you to stand up and to allow you to sit down. Now, why are some muscles just tight for no reason? I'm here sitting on the couch and my neck is tight or my shoulders tight or my hip feels tight. What the hell is going on? Well, your CNS has identified that there's some instability somewhere and the way that it's creating stability is by causing specific muscles to be slightly flexed. It's protective. And if a muscle is slightly flexed all the time, it starts to feel sore. It starts to feel not great. And then it feels better when someone pushes on it or your foam roll it or you stretch it. So the best way to alleviate tight muscles is to find out why they're tight in the first place and create stability through strength exercise, through strengthening exercises the proper way so that your CNS doesn't feel the need to tense those muscles all the time. So for example, one of my favorite things to do when I would get a new client, really common for people that have tight neck muscles, really, really common. So easy selling technique for me when someone will come in, oh, you got really tight muscles. I'm going to press on them real quick. They feel a little better. Now let me do some strengthening exercises for some of the muscles that I know that you probably are weak in through other assessments I'd notice that are going to give you the stability that you need, which is why your CNS is making these other muscles tight. So we would do, for example, like a seated cable row where they really pull the shoulders blades back and down. And we do a few sets. Then they'd stand up and they'd go, oh, I can't believe how good my neck feels. Like, what did you just do? And I look like, you know, like I knew magic or something. But really what I did is I temporarily created some stability so the central nervous system could just chill out a little bit. So that's how you solve tight muscles is you create stability where it needs to be. Oh, and this is really what motivated us to create Prime Pro. So in Prime Pro, we teach you how to go through every major joint in your body and test it both left or right and see if there's a discrepancy. And even if you don't have chronic pain or you don't have any major issues, I guarantee if there's a major discrepancy from left to right on your joint range of motion on one side versus the other, you're going to eventually get tight muscles when you start lifting. That's just what's going to happen to the point that Sal's making. And so this is a great way for you to stay ahead of it before it even happens. And then most certainly, if you're battling it all the time, this is how you get to the root cause of it is you go through those tests, figure out which side where there's this limited range of motion, and then you do the exercises that we program in there to support that. Exactly. Look, if you like fitness and you like Mind Pump and you want good information and you want to ask us a question, here's what you can do. Go to askmindpump.com. It's an AI model that will answer your questions about fitness and nutrition based off of all of our episodes. So you know the information is good and it comes out basically in our voice. It's a pretty remarkable AI model. So it's askmindpump.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram, Justin's at Mind Pump Justin, I'm at Mind Pump DeStefano, and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.