 Okay, so yeah, I see the vias comment. I was thinking of the Lord Jesus. Okay, so let's look at, I think some more people have to join. Okay, we'll get started. So let's look at the Lord Jesus, you know, we were saying that the Lord Jesus, he actually modeled leadership in a way that the world hadn't seen. And the world still, you know, looks to that and find that, okay, this is something that we need to do. This is something that is very effective. Okay, so this is what the Lord Jesus said in Matthew chapter 20 and verses 25 to 28. Matthew, sorry, let me just put that word up. He says, the Son of Man did not come to serve, but rather to, did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many. Matthew 20 verse 25, Jesus called them to himself and said, you know, that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them. And those who are great exercise authority over them. Okay, so it's interesting, you know, why he says this, the context in which he says this, let's go to Matthew chapter 20. And let's look at, you know, how this whole conversation comes about, right? So Matthew chapter 20, and if we started verse 20, it says, then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to him with her sons, kneeling down and asking something from him, asking something from Jesus. And he said to her, what do you wish? She said to him, grant this, that these two sons of mine may sit one on your right hand and the other on your left in your kingdom. But Jesus answered and said, you do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They said to him, we are able. So he said to them, you will indeed drink my cup and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with. But to sit on my right hand and on my left is not mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by my father. And verse 24, and when the 10 heard it, they were greatly displeased with the two brothers. So all the other disciples, they were upset. They were like, how can you even allow your mother to ask such a question to the Lord, put forth such a request to the Lord and to sit at the right hand? And then what about us? Are we not all together? Maybe they were all thinking this. So it just says that they were displeased with the two brothers. But Jesus called them to himself. And obviously he saw and he knew in his heart that this was what was going on. So he called them to himself and said, you know that the rulers of the Gentiles lauded over them. So they boss over them, whoever they are ruling over, and those who are great exercise authority over those whom they rule over. And then he says in verse 26, yet it shall not be so among you, but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave, just as the son of man. Okay. So he's saying, let him be your servant, let him be your slave, just as the son of man. Okay. Just like Jesus, just like me, just like the son of man, did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many. Okay. So so he just exposed them, opened their eyes to see him and to see his perspective of why he had come. You know, they they had seen, you know, if you actually, you know, read the book of Matthew and see all this and read through up to this point, there are a lot of things that has happened. The Lord Jesus is transfigured on the mount. He, you see that there's healing that happens many who are touch him are made well, everything that happens one after the other after the other. And in fact, there is also a question about who is the greatest, the conversation that the disciples themselves have, as they're journey from one place to another, you know, who is they're having that kind of a, you know, discussion and so on. And in fact, they asked the Lord, you know, who is greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Who is the greatest? So all this has happened and it comes to this place when the Lord says, okay, this is who I am. This is why I came to the earth. So he's exposing them to the truth of an aspect of leadership. Probably they hadn't been they, they had, they had seen, they were familiar with this kind of leadership where they had seen rulers, you know, they were under the Roman rule. So they had seen maybe the miss, mishandling of people, they had probably seen the abuse of authority and all that was fresh in their memory. Right. So the Lord is saying, you know, you know that, you know, the rulers of the Gentiles, you know, how do they do it? They lord it, they boss over them. You know, the ones who have authority, you know, how they exercise authority, they're saying, you know, I'm teaching you something. I'm telling you something that if you cannot do the same thing, it shall not be the same with you. You are going to serve in a different way. You're going to lead in a different way. You're going to exercise authority in a different way. So you're saying those, one who desires to be first, let him be your slave, one who desires to be great, let him be the servant. Okay. So ushering in a new, a new area or a new realm of leadership called servant leadership. Right. You, in order to lead, in order to be great, you serve, you hear the serve people. And he says, the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give himself, you know, sacrificially, live his, live his life and give his life as a ransom for many. So, so he's talking, many things that you see here in leadership, you're considering the ones whom you are leading as someone worth saving or someone worth giving your life for, sacrificing your life for someone whom you count as precious or valuable. And all those aspects come in and in saying, you know, the Son of man came to serve. Right. And we, we see that he practically demonstrated that in John chapter 13 versus 12 to 15. Okay. John said, let me just read. John 13 was 12. So when he had washed their feet, taken his garments and sat down again, he said to them, do you not know what I have done to you? You call me teacher and Lord and you say, well, for so I am. If I then your Lord and teacher have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet for I have given you an example that you should do as I have done to you. Okay. So what was that? When did this happen? This was before the crucifixion. They had gathered in the upper room and he, the Bible says that he just took out his outer garment and like how a water servant would do, he took on the towel, you know, the basin and the water and washed every person's, every disciple's feet. And he said, you need to do, you know, do you know what I've done to you? If I then being the Lord and teacher have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. So he's saying, I'm your Lord, you call me Lord and teacher. That is true. And as Lord and teacher, I have done this to you, not as anyone else. That's my identity. That is my, that is why, you know, you rightly have said so. I'm not discrediting that or disputing that. But as Lord and teacher, I have washed your feet. Right. So he says, this is, I've given you an example, verse 15, I've given you an example that you should do as I have done to you. Okay. So a very powerful physical example of what he shared earlier, the Son of Man did not come to serve, did not come to be served, but to serve. And here again, he is reiterating that with that task, you know, with that practical example. And he said, this you need to do to one another, that you need to wash one another's feet, you need to serve one another. And I've left this, given this to you as an example. So, so servant leadership, the Lord Jesus bringing in that, which was, which is very powerful, which is quite a shift in, in thought and action with regard to leadership. Right. So we see this, the Lord bringing in that. So I mean, when we look at the life of the Lord as like his earthly ministry, so we see, in addition to his sacrificial servant leadership, we see some other insights on leadership that we will do well to learn and put to practice. Now, even before we go into that, you know, this whole aspect of servant leadership, it can be done wrong, it can be done right. There's a right way of doing it, and there's a wrong way of doing it. The right way of, you know, serving one another without abdicating your, you know, leadership without, you know, letting go of what you're called to do. You know, how you're like with the gifting and everything, there's a right way of doing it. And we're going to, you know, in further on, when we study actually the life of the Lord Jesus, we get some insights on that as well. Right. So let's, let's look at this. As a leader, we're going to look at some, I think some seven insights, seven aspects. So let's start with the first one. Okay. John chapter 12 and verse 27, the Lord Jesus is nearing the time of crucifixion. And this is what he says. Now, my soul is troubled, but, and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this purpose, I came to this hour, right? For this purpose, I actually came for this particular thing. You know, this was the main thing for which I came and lived my life and did these things. So he was very clear about the purpose, his life purpose, and his role and function is very, very clear. This was something that was settled in his heart. So he would not be distracted from it. He would not be complacent about it. No one can talk him out of it, right? No one can intimidate him out of it, talk him out of it, argue him or reason him out of it. Right? So he knew the purpose. So as leaders, as a leader, the Lord Jesus knew his purpose. So this is something for us to learn. What is the purpose for which I'm here? Right? So that is why identity and purpose and whatever we are doing, right? And whatever we are doing, whatever we are serving, it's so very important because the Lord Jesus knew the purpose and nothing would actually take him out of that. So an example that we see is Matthew chapter 16. If you look at Matthew 16 verse 21, it says that from that time, Jesus began to show to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed and be raised the third day. Then Jesus took him aside, sorry, then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. So the Lord Jesus began teaching and Matthew chapter 16, 21. Because before that, if you see, like he just asked Peter, Peter saying, who do you say that I am? Peter says, you are Christ, you are Jesus Christ, the son of the living God. And the Lord actually commends him and says that you are blessed because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you. My father was in heaven and upon this revelation, upon this rock, I will build a church. So he commends him. And it says that from that time on, upon that truth and revelation that he is the Christ, the son of the living God. From that time on, he began to teach them. He began to teach them how he needs to go to Jerusalem. He needs to suffer many things. He needs to, you know, he will die and he will be killed and on the third day. Now, Peter was very upset with this, this kind of teaching and whatever the Lord was saying. He was very upset. And so it says that Peter actually took him aside. Verse 22, he took him aside, says, and rebuked him. Just imagine his saying, Peter being that impulsive, very spontaneous and character that he was. So he rebukes the Lord. He says, okay, how dare you say that? Why are you talking like this? He rebukes him. Now, you need to stop doing this. So he says, far be it from you, Lord, this shall not happen to you. Okay. And he turned and said to Peter, get behind me, Satan, for you are an offense to me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men. So he was able to discern where this whole thing was coming from. Where this Peter's ideas, where they were coming from. So, where this Peter's rebuking, and even though it was sincere, even though it seemed like to be good, the Lord discerned where it was coming from. And since he was so clear about his purpose, why did he come to the earth? Why was he here to minister? He was so clear. He said, you know, get behind me, Satan, for you are not mindful of the things of God. But it just means, it says, you know, very interesting. The second part of it is, but the things of men. Okay. So Satan is mindful of the things of men. In the sense, it could be a very humanistic thing. It might come as something that is very good. Satan is mindful of it. So he's saying, there's a lot of saying, you are not mindful of the things of God, but you are actually mindful of the things of men. You are an offense. This humanistic thing, this thing, the things of men, earthly, fleshly thing. It's an offense. And he's saying that, yes, this is my purpose. I will not be distracted from it. This is the purpose of God. This is the call of God. I will not be moved away from it. I will not be distracted. Even though it comes like good advice and wisdom, I will not be distracted from it. So we see that, you know, the call, the purpose, our assignment, if we are not sure as leaders, we're going to be making decisions, making choices, putting resources behind, like resources, when I say resources, we are talking about, of course, money and time and skill and all that, behind certain things, or maybe projects, maybe assignments, which is going to involve people, if you're in ministry, involve the church and etc. And it's going to be a drain. It's going to be a waste. Why? Because it's not the things of God, but it's the things of men. So knowing the purpose, knowing the intention, knowing the direction is very, very important. And it's not a difficult thing, but it involves walking with the Lord. It's not impossible thing to know, because we know that the Lord wants to, he's called us to be influencers, he's called us to be leaders. Therefore, he makes that information, makes that wisdom available for us. So it's not something that is outside of our grass, outside of our reach. It's something that the Lord wants for us and gives us as well. Matthew chapter 15 and verse 14 says, let them alone, they are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch. It's talking about influence without discernment, having influence without a strong grip on purpose, having influence. So if that is so, then saying it'll have its consequence, because as the blind lead the blind, one who does not have a sense of, one who's unable to see where we are going, well, he's going to lead himself and the ones whom he is leading into a place where they are not supposed to be going. It says both will fall into a ditch and come to a place which is not good for them. So the Lord says this is what it is. So we will end up leading others not into their destiny because well, leadership is about influencing others for their good, which involves discovering who they are, discovering what they have been given, and leading them to a destiny in God. Now, if you're not clear about the purpose, then we can actually lead them to a destiny which is not really what they are meant to go, the place where they are not meant to go. It could fall short of the destiny that God has in store for them. So the beautiful thing is this, in all this, there is room for correction. There is room for you, you turn, there is you for a left turn, there is room for, in that journey, as we wait upon the Lord as leaders, there is room for correction, there is room for change, that's a beautiful thing. There is because this whole aspect of grace for leadership. So it takes a very, very, I don't know, obstinate and stubborn and rebellious heart to miss all these signs and to go astray. If we're so willful and so stubborn and so rebellious, then you miss out on this. But if we are a posture of our heart is to receive, is to glorify, if that is settled, then it's a safe place. So the Lord says that he is his purpose, his reason, and the price, he was willing to pay the price, he was willing to go through that pain and everything because he was clear that this was the purpose. So also for us, so this is a very important lesson that we read as, that we see and that we know as leaders that know your purpose. The second one that we see in the life of the Lord Jesus is that he was selfless. So he was not about him, it was about others. So he was, the focus was on the other. It was not on the self. What can I get? How can I be elevated? How can I be, how become famous, popular? It was not about that. His focus was not that. Philippians 2 talks about that, let nothing, their instruction, alright, let nothing be done through, Philippians 2 verse 3, let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit. But in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. This was the mindset or outlook that the Lord Jesus had. So Paul is saying to the Philippian Church, let this mindset, let this thought pattern, let this outlook be in you also, which was first of all in the Lord Jesus. So let's look back again, let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit in Christ. But in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than oneself, than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also. That's a very important thing. Now as a leader, you know that, okay, God has called me to do this. There's a purpose, it is very strong, and I need to reach this. There are certain goals that God set before, and I need to reach that. I don't want to be distracted from that goal. So that's the first thing that we saw. He was not distracted. He was not going to be swayed by any reasoning, any logic, anything that would come contrary to that. So here we see in Philippians 2 and verse 4, let each one of you look out not only for his own interests, okay, that is good, but also for the interests of others. Okay, in looking out for our own interests, are we putting down the interests of others or the good of others? In wanting, you know, for us to reach a particular place, particular destiny, particular destination, are we not considering the good of others? So that is important. So in other words, it's like saying, okay, it's not like you reach the place no matter what, you know, no matter what happens, no matter how people fall by the wayside, no matter what casualty. So it's not that saying you look out for the interests of others also. So this is the mind, this is the kind of outlook that the Lord Jesus had. So it's again, a very radical thing where being selfless and not selfish, it's not, you know, achieving certain thing at whatever cost. It's not in the sense when, you know, we need to understand it right, you know, in the sense if it's a great price to pay, okay, but it's not at whatever in the sense you're not looking out for the good of others. So being selfless, being, the focus not being on oneself. So as a leader, the Lord Jesus taught that. The third one is that the Lord, he was obedient, he was in communion with the Father, and he was obedient to the voice of the Father. Okay, that's the third thing that we see. You know, what aspects of it had Father's instruction? First of all, he was sensitive to the Father's voice. He knew, he identified, he was well acquainted with the Father's voice, and he knew his will, he knew his timing, and so all that was good. But over and above that, he was also obedient, right. He was, he said, okay, I need to do this, and I will do it. That he was obedient to the Father, okay, to the will of the Father. Hebrews 10 and verse 7, okay, then I said, behold, I have come in the volume of the book, it is written of me to do your will, oh God. Okay, saying, I have come to do your will, oh God. Okay, we're going back to Philippians 2 now. Philippians 2 and verse 8, and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient. Okay, so a leader is not only someone who is, you know, who is selfless, who is not only someone who's got a grasp on what the purpose is, and all that, but also someone who's, you know, when we think of leaders, we think of someone who's leading, someone who's always directing, you know, that's very strong, right, in a leader influencing others and collectively being able to direct people for their good, of course. So that aspect is very strong. But also we see that as a leader, the question is, you know, is that person a follower? Will that person be obedient? And we're talking about Christian leadership, so will that person be obedient to the voice of the Lord? Okay, or is it going to, is his own voice or her own voice going to be louder than the voice of the Lord, the voice of the Spirit? So you see here that as a leader, he's obedient. Okay, as a son, he was obedient to her father. The will, the purpose, the timing, no matter what the cost, he was obedient. It says here, Philippians 2 and verse 8, he humbled himself, became obedient to the point of death, even the death on the cross. Okay, so he was well aware of the father's will, well aware of the timing, well aware of the purpose, and he was obedient. Okay, so that's another quality of a leader, to be a follower of Christ, to be a follower of Christ, not just leading others to Christ, not just pointing others to Christ, or pointing others to the purposes of Christ. This is what we need to do as a church, this is what we need to do as a ministry, and all that, pointing others to that, the plan, the purpose, the direction, pointing others to Christ, well that is great. But here, we see that he himself was obedient, personally obedient, sensitive, obedient. So that's a big one. As a leader, I'm following, obedient is the voice of the Father, the voice of the Spirit. So as leaders, we see that just like the Lord was, we need to be obedient and sensitive to the will and voice of the Father. So we looked at three things now. So any other further thoughts, any questions, any challenges that you might think, okay, in actually applying this in daily life, maybe you are in your situation, in your work situation or life situation, do you foresee anything that could be, of course, leadership is challenging, but anything we can talk about that also. Okay, so what is the difference between a leader and a mentor? Well, the fact is that when we see that leadership is about influence, I guess in my opinion it's interchangeable. A mentor is also a leader, because you are leading that person into the things, adjourning and influencing that person for their good. A mentor does that. And through experience, through the wisdom, through the path that you have already crossed, you're doing that. So, well, I would say that it would be used interchangeably. Yeah, Jeffrey, now you have a question. Yes, faster. So let's say a leader is going through some struggles. I mean, we've created an example, people started following us. We've been so strong throughout the journey, but maybe at some point, we have some different situations in life. And finally, we come to a point of struggling. And we, I mean, every leader is also imperfect, right? I think so. Yeah, work in progress. Yes, definitely. Yeah. So does it mean the leader has to hide his struggles and still portray himself as a strong one? Or, I mean, or he should go and find out help or what's the whole thing? Yeah. So, okay, I'm just looking at Levega's comments. I'll just come back. The leader is to mentor, but not all mentors are leaders. How all leaders are mentors. Okay. Okay. I guess, Levega, you're talking about a particular, you know, an official title of mentor and leader. Well, if that is the case, yes, this, it would apply, because not all mentors need to be leaders in an official capacity. But if you look at leadership as someone who's influencing people for the better, then we would say that, well, all mentors are leaders as well. Right. Okay. So coming back to Jeffiness, you know, Western about leaders, you know, with, with strengths and weaknesses, right, with, with limitations. So how, how do we, how do we lead in that? Do, do we, do we, is it good for a leader to expose his or her weakness to be vulnerable? Or, you know, do we have to portray ourselves, hide our weaknesses and say, okay, this is what I need to do. So I just open it, open this question up to the class. And maybe I'll make some comments later once I hear from you. Anyone wants to answer that? Okay. Levega, you want to go ahead. Yeah, I think there is nothing wrong with being transparent about some struggles that we are going through, especially I'm talking in a context of leading a not in a, you know, distant way, but leading in a very personal way, maybe in the context of mentoring. So I don't think there is any problem in being transparent. If you are going through a struggle, and of course I have had mentors in my life who would be, you know, really open about it and tell me how they depend on God to go through certain situations. So I found it very helpful because even when I'm going through a difficult situation, I can always, you know, go to what they went to, ultimately they depend on God. So in a Christian context, it is actually very good to be transparent about the struggles, not in a very detailed way, may not be everything that the leader is going through, but at least as a testimony, maybe, yeah, that is really helpful, I believe. Okay, okay, so a leader can be candid about whatever he or she is going through. And so, so Jeff has a question is, you know, to the person whom that person is leading, right? Can they, you know, can they talk candidly about their weaknesses, their limitations? Yeah. So, yeah, thanks. Anyone else? Anyone else? John, you have some thoughts? What do you think? Okay, so, okay, firstly, we just want to establish the fact that all of us, you know, whether we are in a position of leadership, you know, officially in a position of leadership or not, you know, we are people who are work in progress, right? So there are certain areas where the Lord has worked on us and we are definitely strong in those areas and there are certain areas which are progressively being worked upon and maybe it's not in that place of strength yet. Okay, so the, so from the, for the leader, the leader's perspective is, okay, these are areas that have identified as my limitations and I'm working on it. Okay, so you're not insecure about it, but you recognize that these are things that are not where it should be, right? Maybe certain skills, maybe certain things like, okay, people's skills, maybe I'm more of an analyst, technically I'm sound, you know, I'm more of a tech person, I'm a leader in that aspect, knowledge and understanding, but when it comes to people, maybe there is a, you know, there's a area of limitation, maybe I need to develop that, okay. But as long as the leader knows that, okay, and also continually working on it, so the perspective is that, yes, I'm working on it, it's, I understand it, but I'm not insecure about it, okay. So that's, that's one thing, okay. And yeah, like Rosalind is saying, a leader can always seek help from his or her leader and necessarily changes, yes, provided he or she is not condemned or looked down for that weakness, okay. So in the area of, you know, when you're working on it, we are working on that particular area or maybe skill, maybe something else, you get help from whoever are your mentors and whoever are your leaders and then you work on it, so that's the thing, right. So the thing is not to, you know, use it as a crutch whenever it comes to, let's say, interacting with the team, okay, interacting with those who are leading and to say, okay, you know, I'm not really strong in this area, you know, not to really bring that about and confess that over and over again, right. But you can be candid and say, hey, I'm working on this, or to even surround yourself with people or, you know, that particular area to take help from people, maybe in the team itself, to deal with that, okay. So you're okay and I'm not very good at that, so I'm going to take this person's help to do that. So that is also a good thing, while you're continuing to work at it and not, you know, just ignore it and do that, okay. But not really overtly just, you know, say, confess it and say, I'm weak at it and I, you know, or maybe have self-pity, you know, that is one thing that a leader should not do, right. And also be insecure about it, you know, in order to cover up that insecurity, we might do, people might try to deal with that in different ways, right. You know, we could probably be very touchy about it, you know, flare up, get upset every time that is pointed out and abuse our authority and say, okay, none of your business, you know, it's not, does not concern you and, you know, kind of put people in place and do that. So, you know, those are certain things that a leader should not do, react insecurely. Okay, some more comments here. I believe being humble enough to accept correction is also an important aspect of leadership, yes. But it takes humility to address the issue and not to be proud enough to deny any help. Very true. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, so does that help, Jeff, you know, so we don't have to, you know, cover up, be insecure and say, okay, what do people say when they look at this weakness? It's fine. Your thing is to work at it, improve it and correct it and change it for the better. And while a person is working at it, well, always you can take help to deal with that particular area, you know, maybe, maybe accounting is not strong, you know, take someone else to, you know, you're not, maybe one person, the leader is not strong in it, take help for counsel, for advice to handle that particular thing. For example, you know, do things like that. Does that help, Jeff, you know? Yes, best. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Okay. Any other questions, like from whatever we have seen so far, being selfless, being obedient and knowing our purpose, any questions on that, any thoughts on that, any additional thoughts on that, because it's important that these things don't remain, you know, good thoughts or you know, good instructions, but we need to be able to translate this into action, right? So that's where we see the fruit of this, because these are powerful truths. And this is what the Lord walked in. And the instruction is this, you know, the Lord doesn't want these to be options in our lives. It's very important, right? Because he's said very clearly, you know, yet it shall not be so with you. Okay. So which means I need to have a leadership style, which is very different from that of, you know, which is that, which is that, if I see something that is in the world, which is contrary to the word or to his instruction, I need to, I need to kind of reject it, right? So, you know, especially if you're in a corporate setting, and if you have many kinds of people who are maybe, you know, we could be reporting to, we could be peers with, he would, I mean, they wouldn't have different styles of leadership, but the Lord is putting this, which means that this kind of a thing, you know, when you are leading people is not just for church and ministry, right? It's for, it's for life, right? It should be transferable in any environment, family, right? In any environment. Yeah. Okay. So, Divya has a question, being obedient, how can that be practically applied in our context? Is it being obedient to God? So, yeah, first and foremost, yes, you know, that we are, we are not above the instructions that we give others, you know, above the law of God, just because we are pointing others to the truth. That means that we, we don't, you know, we are not disobedient. So in that sense, we are, you know, obeying God, but also when it comes to obeying, let's say generally rules and laws and instructions, maybe, which are common, you know, in a particular environment, okay, office, home, maybe, different setup, you know, where commonly agreed upon rules, instructions. So we are obedient in that, in that sense, right? We follow. Okay. So at first and foremost, of course, we're talking about obedience to God and in the context that we saw, the Lord Jesus being obedient to the father, the son being obedient to the father. Okay. Yeah, would it be right for the leader to be very stern towards the youth, who sometimes don't obey everything that the leader asked them to do? Okay, sternness. Okay. So you're talking about when you say stern, we're saying, okay, being firm in whatever we are, you know, standing for, and maybe the words and actions which follow because of that, right? Would it be right for the leader to be strict, stern in thought, word and action, right? So it, it again depends what is the, who sometimes don't obey everything that the leader asked them to do. Okay. So, of course, it is, you need to find out why, why they are not obeying. Is it something very unreasonable? Is it something, you know, something, is it because of immaturity? Is it because, you know, all those things, and how critical is it? Right. So that's the thing. How critical is it? Because if, if the baby is near the fire, and if it's going to be, if it's going to be a, if it's very, you know, we know that it's very critical for the life of the baby of the child, then yes, there is a certain swiftness of action that is, that is required from us. You know, there's no reasoning, there's no logic, and all the sitting and sweet talking won't, it's a swift action to take to snatch the child from the fire. So it depends on how, what is it? You know, is it critical, or is it something that we can actually sit and talk about and reason? So, yeah, so it depends on that. So if you are, you know, if it's something that we can sit and reason and talk and, and, you know, we can, if we have the time to do that, yeah, I'm sure we can do that. Right. But otherwise, if it's something critical, it has to be addressed in that manner. Yeah. But, you know, because it is people, you know, because it is youth, okay, young people, we have, they've passed the childhood stage. They are at a place to, in a place of understanding, reasoning, I think that would help. Then again, it's a very general thing, Rosalind. So that's why we'll answer this also a little gentle. Okay. Okay. So that's all we have time for today. So we'll stop right here, and we'll meet again in our other classes. Thank you. God bless. Take care. So we'll be meeting next week. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye.