 Media, future talk. As we are in the midst of COVID, every business is changing. The environment is changing, the economy is changing, the business landscape is changing, media is changing. To understand what's happening in the media ecosystem, to broadcasting, to digital, we have a pioneer of the media industry who started four decades back and is still, let's say, a young man in this old industry. We have the Chairman of Sub, the Sri Adhikari Brothers Network, Mr. Markan Adhikari as a guest in the Exchange for Media Future Talk. Welcome, Mr. Adhikari, to this Exchange for Media Future Talk. How have you been in the last 90-hundred days for you, Mr. Adhikari? Thank you, Dr. Batra. Thank you for inviting me to your webinar. Life in the last 90 days is difficult for everybody. April was horrible. May was some percentage better than April and June has improved but it has not come to that level and we expect that by September, October, we should reach the previous pre-COVID level and if it does not reach the previous pre-COVID level, then it will be the difficulty for all. I think that's very challenging and testing time. Okay, Markan Bhai, thank you for being so specific about it and being real. Now, Markan Bhai, you started in content in broadcasting four decades back. A lot has changed that. This week also marks the 20th year of SubTV, which is now part of the Sony Networks and you gave your baby to them, so to say, while you do programming for it and also the 10th year of Masti, which is the leader in the music broadcasting space. Tell us a little bit about how SubTV was born and we'll then come to how Masti TV was born. Yeah, see, we were in the business from last 40 years. We started with the ad agency. My late brother Gautam, which I'm missing him today, he was the art director of so many big advertising agency. So we started with a small ad agency. It was difficult for him being art director of a big agency to start a small business who is doing the classified advertisement, cinema slides of a teller saw a photographic and I have to just pass the graduate. So it was not difficult for me. I was already a struggler. So there were more struggle for me. But we started with a small ad agency. And then we see television in India started in mid 80s near the this in Delhi, Asia, Asia time. The commercial television is started. The TV was there, but it was all about Amchi Mati, Amchi Manas, Kamgar Viswa and all and for time and program hardly watched by anybody. So first time the sponsored program started and we were one of the pioneer to venture into the sponsored program. At that time, many few people know what is the sponsored program. They were very surprised that why you are making this program? Who gives you the money? So I told them, no, nobody gives me the money. I have to give money to the Durdarsan to buying the slot, then sell to the advertiser and recover my production cost and whatever remain is the our little profit. So that was the sponsored program. How that started on Durdarsan. So we did so many content for Durdarsan. Then we did the initial content for the first satellite channel, GTV. We started with the commander, Philip Stopten, many content then GTV. Not many people know Mark and Bai that in some way you did something in the television industry that is still unknown. Good bad depends on which side you are on. But in commander, you remember your agreement with ZTV, you know, when you why don't you tell the viewers a bit about that? Yeah, agreement was GTV was like that Subhas is a real businessman, he's my mentor. So he squeezed me all the way and we were just paid 1.25 lakh that is also after a lot of negotiation per episode, 1.425 lakh that also the Z was not agreeing to 1.25 lakh per episode, which is just a meager if nowadays if you think then I yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is 91 91 it started in I think 92 but the production activity started in 91. So 1.25 lakh per episode and that's too bigger and that also they were negotiating that were not so happy about 1.25 lakh they want to negotiate further. Then I give them an idea because we were on the Doordarsan but the idea of this satellite TV is being broadcast in 39 countries was very exciting. So I told them you do one thing, you keep all the rights, be the copyright holder of the program, but I'll give me 1.25 lakh and I think that become a whatever may be good or the bad precedent for the satellite industry that in India only the satellite channel asks all the producer with the rights, with the rights, the producer losing their rights, but anyway I want to start my program. It was a trade-off, it was a trade-off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so start with by programming on satellite TV. So we did on Z, we did on there was a second channel by Z, LTV, ELTV, there are very few know about that. So I have started also initial program with it. Then I started with Home TV, the Hindustan Times as a channel called Home TV, but after that in 1995 when DD launched the Metro, DD Metro. So once again we came back to the DD Metro because ultimately we were losing all right which I should be accused for for all the program. So we came back to the DD and because DD was a big thing, DD Metro the 10 seconds spot we used to sell at 1 lakh, 1 lakh 10,000, but 10 seconds spot which is also very difficult in today's time for any channel to sell. So from 1995 to 2000, we have made about some 3,500 episodes for Doordarshan and many popular programs like Suman, Srimati, all the best, Vakki, Ravtar, there are so many programs. Daily afternoon shop also we started with Vakki Ravtar. So till 2000 we were doing this in 1995 we have become the first one of the first media company to be listed on the stock exchange. That that time we offer say 10 rupees, say 10 rupees and it was just 15 rupees till the 1999. But after 1999 in the digital boom, the sale price has gone up from 500 to 1000 and everything and at that time we thought now we should start our own channel. So we did some private blessed man and we have loaned sub TV in 2000, but as we loaned the sub TV exactly six months down the market has collapsed, the stock market has collapsed. So for the fire there was no other alternative to raise the capital, but then also we rent sub TV for the fire. We created a niche brand of comedy at that time. In a lot of ways you've been a pioneer. I mean when I called it the pioneer talk really whether it's in terms of doing content, doing comedy, you know, listing a media entity, you know, you've been a pioneer in a lot of ways. So we've come to that in a while, but I want to hear how sub TV become what it became. Yeah, so then that sub TV we ran from 2000 to 2005. We make it a niche from a Sasbahu, but that time Sasbahu period was there and we make a complete comedy channel. But after fires because we raise a very little capital, we have offered a much capital at that time in 2000 by the our investors, but we have approached them with a very less capital because we have a less knowledge of broadcasting at the time. So we started with a very less capital, but we survived for fire in that. And then the Sony deal has happened. And now now I'm happy that under the leadership of NPC with the present CEO, the channel is the world's highest viewing comedy channel. And in this challenging time also, see all other GC might took a beating, but sub TV is not taking a beating because of the niche content like a comedy. So this is what the journey of the sub TV. And how did musty come along? Yeah, so how did you differentiate musty? Yeah, yeah, I'll come to that. So after giving sub TV to the Sony, have a deal with the Sony, I have tried with one new channel also for one or two year that's called Janma and then live India. But after that time was why I good as a businessman, I would have a very good offer from one industrialist and I make a deal for that also. So after that, that two or three years of break, then it's the media person can always be in media. I'll satisfy myself always in the business of media. I can't do construction. I can't build bridges, roads. So I have to be in media. So I thought about what I can do now because the GC space was very cluttered, very cluttered GC space. And I'll tell you one thing, after 2000 till now in 20 years, only two general entertainment channel has done well. One is sub TV and one is colors. I don't want to take the name of the others, but other 10 have tried the GC all have bombed. So only sub TV brand is survived and color is survived. So these two brands become popular. So I thought that I want to do something but GC was very saturated. So I started, I'll do music, but music also I want to do differently. So the comedy which we did with the sub TV, so we have done some comedy, we have signed some artists like Raju Srivastava at that time was very popular. Not now, so popular, but that time Raju Srivastava like a Kapil Sarma. Super, 2010 I'm talking about. Then Raju Suresh Menon, Silas Loda who is a Tarak Mehta, so many comedians. We met certain character out of it, did some gigs, one or two minute gigs with them. And I interwoven the songs with this comedy gigs. And that was so clicked, our promotion added, it was so clicked that Masthi has become number one channel, Masthi was launched on 4th July 2010. And it's become number one, the 5th August rating of 2010 of Masthi was number one channel. So Masthi had a very good run in last 10 years. Then we launched a Bhujpuri channel also Dabang which is also still doing very well. We have a Marathi music channel called Mai Boli which is also doing very well. We have some two channels for the Ruler India, particularly for Ruler India. So that's a different kind of software and all. Okay, I remember and I take, I've forgotten the name of the show, but it was me and late Mr. Gautam Adhikari, you were watching the content in your home. It was a big launch by star around a show and we watched it and you and Gautam bhai said, it chalega nahi. And it didn't. And I said, I enjoyed it. You said, you know, you may have enjoyed it, but yeh nahi chalega hamari, you know, it may not go down with mass audiences. The point I'm trying to ask is that you as a content creator has got the pulse of the audiences, right? Where does that come from? First of all, I clarify that you tell the show with the stars, not with the star TV, stars means stars, television stars. Otherwise, star TV will feel bad, we are talking about. Television show with the stars, television stars. Yeah, so it's kind of what I was saying, the sense of the content. The sense of the content because I must have come from a scratch, from a, you can say, very ordinary middle-class family. I brought up from here. So I have seen that every part of my life struggle myself. I travel in local trains. I'll travel in BST buses. So all things, I will study all the characters and the typical life, typical struggling life. Real life. It's like a R.K. Luxman's common man, what I have studied. So content, as I told, is content is an impromptu creation. It's like a thumb mark. Every impression is different. Every impression is different. So if you know the pulse of the masses, you can create the content because I'll tell you about sub-TV once, so office-office. Office-office was so popular. It was a very niche show. Very niche show. Office-office, very different kind of comedy. So when Meera, I forget his first name. Meera comes to me with the show. He told me the four established channelers rejected the show. But I have just seen the one episode and I told you, this is done. So maybe I'm not the expert. There are many experts, but we have some pulse of the masses. You know, your group is called the Sri Adhikari Brothers. You and I got the late Gautama and a good pleasure of meeting him with you and interacting with him over the years. Tell us, how did the collaboration between him and you work? How did the collaboration between you and him work? Because it was a collaboration. Yeah. As I told you that Gautam was a creative man. He was a commercial artist. He was from the judges' school of arts. He had become a commercial artist and that's why we started and he was art director in very big, big agencies that time. So we started with a small ad agency, which is very difficult for Gautam to make a cinema slide. So we have to transfer and look after the classified dates of Times of India and book them. So I used to look after the administration and Gautam has to look after the creative. But as the started, the commercialization of television started, Gautam wanted to try his hands at the direction. And then Gautam started. Gautam was always a creative person. He never interfered in my administrative side or marketing side. And I never interfered. Of course, we sat together. I have given my ideas for creation. Like you know, we all know about the content, the purpose of the masses. But we never have to interfere in each of the work. Thank you, Mark. And I know you and you mentioned that you started Janma TV, it became live India. But I know you're a big watcher of news. You're very interested in what happens in the country. You have a point of view. How do you think the Indian news channels are doing? I know you watch at least one out of news. And I know I don't call you when you're watching news. I know you're watching news, so I don't call you. But tell us what's happening to Indian news? What is your viewpoint? See, the news and entertainment is mixed nowadays. So any breaking news is also like some exciting episode. They want to portray like an exciting episode. So this is a new trend. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but it's 24 hours. And see, in our country, only this many of news channels, if you go to West America or any country, you will not find, you will find only four, five leading channels, because we have so many channels, 100 channels people are saying. So because we have so many parties, you have a Maya, you have a Mulayam, you have a Lalu, you have a what, no what, not what, what leaders and so many funny parties. So at least you have a material. When you have a material, you have so much of channel. And the same thing with the Pakistan, you know, you and me, Malawena, our relations were good with Pakistan. We visited together to Pakistan. And I used to night the word, the television, they also have some 15, 20, such a small country, 15, 20 channels. So more than 100 news channels. Pakistan has 100 news channels. We have about 200 plus news channels. 200 plus news channel. So the prominent channels, I don't want to say 40 channels. Sorry. The prominent news channels, leave them otherwise many channels are just become a lightning medium. So and nowadays people are shifting to the digital for the news also. Even when I missed my favorite news channel live program, I viewed on the app in the late night. So the digital is now playing a main role. You know, I want to ask there's a view to it. There is an attendee in the webinar called Ajitya Mani. He's asking a question, which is what I wanted to ask you. When will OTT evolve into more interactive format? Binge watching of OTT is basically watching TV without time. And I would like to ask you a similar related question. When will OTT become mainstream? I know you were launching happy TV, right? Happy. At one point you were launching happy and at some stage you will launch it in a new avatar. So where do you see this OTT business going? See, OTT will be the future. Digital will be the future because the advantage of digital, you move with it. Television is static. Digital, you move with it. That is the first advantage. The second advantage, digital is infinite. So these two advantages is with digital. But now in India, as India is a country, is a very family oriented country, very family culture. So nowadays also in a tier two, tier three ruler, leave this tier two, tier three and ruler. But in a metros also, many of the family on dinner table want to watch the television. So because the content of the web is not suitable for family viewing. It is suitable only for the individual mobile viewing. So the television is here to stay. I don't know how much, but it's here to take a fight in well. But this is the future. Why OTT is the future? The sustenance wise because it's not depends upon the advertising. Because the advertising pie will shrink day by day for television also. And there are so many players, so many players that includes OTT also, TV also, other media also. This is the subscription model will work in future, subscription model. And OTT best advantage is the subscription model. But it will take time because nowadays also when I go some places, they don't know, I ask them that you have put your fire stick, fire stick. So they say that they have put fire stick. They don't know what is fire stick, smart stick. They don't know, what will they have, what channel a fire stick. So there is a, some class of people, they improve to the OTT. Now they must be watching on the mobile, but on their television to fix a smart stick and everything. So I think within five years, the situation will improve for OTT. Now also it is growing. The COVID is a career for virus and digital. You were saying COVID is a career for virus. Just before I started my conversation with you, I was talking to Sunil Lulabbar. He said the content that works on OTT doesn't work on the big screen or on television screen. The same reason you said that that is more family watching, this is more individual watching. So tell us, are there rules for getting the content right in television? Is there a playbook to succeed in broadcasting in 2020 and 2021? Are there some some rules? I don't think there are something fixed rule for, because see this is the only place when somebody has become a programming head, it should not some budget, some special degree. There is a master of art for programming or something. So it's like a pulse. You should understand the pulse of the content. And we don't know when which program will click. And the things are like that. Experiment. And one program clicks. Then in today's creative team, they would do, they judge every minute, when TRP is going up, when it's going down. But in digital, you can see what is trending, what are the issues that are important, what content. So you can in some way, your feedback loop. Now let's focus on, since we're talking about OTT content, we're talking about the millennials. In the Shri Adhikari Brothers group, the next generation, the young Turks of the sub generation have taken over. Ravi and Kailash are involved in increasing content on the business side. Now when you talk to them, what is the kind of conversations you have amongst you? What do they learn from you and what do you learn from them? Actually, I learn from them, because I want to be a student throughout my life. Ravi and Kailash, because we were in, actually we were in content, we have started with the content. But when I started broadcasting in 2000, there is a disadvantage that I lose my connect with the content. But I think now the today content is the main thing. So Ravi and Kailash, now are focusing on the content. Their first venture, Deed Patangay was a web film, which is released on... Deed Patangay? Yeah, Deed Patangay was a web film. On OSTAR, independent reviews. I was reading its independent reviews and fantastic reviews. Yeah, right. It's a very good film. So it's released on Disney, OSTAR on 2nd of March. So at that time, we didn't know that film release on the digital will become a trend in 15, 20 days. Because 2nd of March, we did our premiere at the PBR. And within 10 days, the old headers and everything is closed. So now everything is coming on the digital, is on the OTT platform. So all big screen star who are, who ridicules the small screen are now lining up for the small screen. So time is the big boss. Nobody is here boss. Time is the ultimate big boss. Good. Makanbhai, you yourself talked about how you struggled in the early days and how you want to be successful and reinvent yourself from time to time. Apart from the fact, it is, I know you're a very religious person, but apart from God's blessings, hard work, is there a playbook to be successful in life, in anything, especially the media business? I think there is no playbook because I think every Hindustani is very hardworking. If you see the person who is doing a road project on the road, he is also a hardworking. So with your hard worker, somewhere the luck factor also counts. They say the harder you work, the luckier you get. Yeah. And that is also the harder your luckier you get. Sometimes it's, the people are working hard, but luck is not on their side. So I think it's a God blessing. And of course, you should have some ability. Otherwise, God will also not bless. So it's a more, I'll give more marks to the luck and God blessing. And hardworking is, of course, there's Karami dharam hona chahiye. Beautiful. Makan bhai, if you had to make two, three predictions for the future about the media business, what would those be? Future, my future prediction that the TV is not will go so fast as people are predicting. The channel, TV, when I say TV, TV screen is a monitor. But the TV, TV means TV channel. TV channels are here to stay for much longer than what we thought. OTT, the business, it will rise because it's a subscription driven business. So it's all a consumer. You are directly in touch with the consumer. So OTT, with a good subscription base, OTT is a chance. And the kind of OTT program, I would say, I have seen one program like special ops on the whole star, Disney whole star. It is better than the film, I'll tell you. I have watched from night 10 to morning 5 at my house. In fact, a friend of mine has been requesting me to watch special ops for about five weeks and I haven't. Now that you say it's very good. No, no, it's very good. I watched at rest for seven hours and morning at five o'clock in my home theater, I stand up and I give a clap. But I was alone. But it was so good. The program is so good. The future, the OTT content will be better than film. The special ops, if this will run film, the role of KK Mehman will be done by Ajay Devgan and the current taker role will be by Varun Dhawan. Otherwise, the production cost is much higher than in this program. So you are saying that TV is going to stay, content will rule and OTT in terms of quality of production, quality of start is the new movie. You also have invested in movies, produced in movies. The last 90 days have been very tough for the production houses, for movie houses, because one production is stopped, second the movie houses are shut. What do you have to say to people who are dealing with lots of hardships? I know you as a group have done your bit to look after people, but what is your message for home? I think as far as the theaters are concerned, first we will talk about the theaters. The theaters are concerned, I think this will be a prolonged problem. The running of theaters, because if theaters start also, with a 33% audience like a hotel now, now that it has started, the mathematics will not work. So I will tell them some final vaccine will come. Not every day we claim some vaccine has come, not like that. The final vaccine will come and everybody is sure about that, then only people, because the big screen is big screen. There is no match to the big screen. So at present is the hard time, but I think in a year, one and a half or two years, we don't know. But maximum in two years, that time will come. Till then, they have to adjust with the small screen. And about the hardship, it's a great hardship for the people because in the most of the organizers and good organizers, I will even say, they are payoffs, they are salary cuts. So this will impact the economy, because they impact the demand and will demand will impact, definitely impact the economy. But we have to be optimistic. One day will come up. World is here to stay. In 1919, there was a Spanish flu. Like same lockdown and everything, there was a less facility. There was no net or everything. But then also the world will survive and grow. So the world will definitely survive, especially for India. Indians are very hard working all over the world, not only in India. That's the nature of the DNA. Now, I want to ask you my last question before I wrap up. In your journey of 40 years, as an entrepreneur, as a professional, as a content creator, you may have interacted with many people. Of course, your late brother, Mr. Gautam Adhikari, of course I'm sure would have been an inspiration to you. But tell us about five people in your life, in the professional sphere, that have influenced you a lot and have inspired you and you learned a lot from them. Three, five, six. I'll tell you, there is a, I have learned so much on those days when they were noted from Doordarshan. So Doordarshan, there is no special person. But they're rotating CEOs and rotating DGs and all that. So because that time only Doordarshan. So I have learned from many people from Doordarshan. And then I learned more from Subhazji. He is Subhaj Chandra. Yeah, of course. So he is my mentor. See, he has actually established the, what we are today in media. So lots of credit goes to him. So and one thing I would like to mention that he is my, I feel so proud to say this. I feel so proud that he, he was working with, he was my employee about 25 years, Uday Sankar in my new setup. And today he's a chairman of Disney Epic and Star. So the one journey, which I have seen, yeah. So one journey of Uday, I have seen a tremendous success. I have never seen in a professional life, anybody successful like him. That's that. He's really one class. Uday is really one class in the way he thinks. I mean, I think there's a lot more of Uday still left in Uday. And I'm very hopeful. Uday is there, then he will give a run to the other oddity players. So the host star will definitely give a run now with the Disney and Star come together. So I'm very confident about it. Thank you Mark and Bai. There are two questions. Pragya Gupta is asking, any upcoming OP app for OTT platform? Are you bringing out a new app for on OTT? Is the Shri Yadikari brothers? And is there a common subscription for the apps while going for an individual subscription? So is someone aggregating all the OTT apps? At present, the time of his survival. This year, you can't expect somebody to bring something new. So it's a time of survival. So if we survive, that's the best thing. And the aggregating of OTT. I think it started in some way. What I know about Zeefi and all the other, I started in some way, but how much it is successful? I think in a very big player, it is not possible. Maybe the down level, it may happen, but on a big level, I don't see it's possible. Raghunish Rastav is asking you, how much do you weigh the relevance of regional content on a nationwide OTT platform? By the way, Shri Yadikari, as he said, they have their music channels in Indian languages, but he's asking OTT in regional content. See, OTT and regional persons are doing well because if you take the south, south as their own cinema, they have their own OTT. So it's a different country like a situation, that they have a different cinema. So it's a volume like a different country. Whatever volume we have in Hindi, the same volume you have in Tamil and in Telugu. And so there is a scope for regional OTT and there are. I have marked some OTT in Bengal also. So it will come up, day by day it will come up. Okay. Manish Kumar wants to know, do you agree that this pandemic has proven to be fruitful for music channel as the viewership and consumption of music have gone up? Question, it's a question. Pandemic, this lockdown has been good for channels and music channels. I'll tell you, lockdown as a good for viewership of TV channel. But for conversion, ultimately the bills to pay by day is not good. It's like I'll give you an example. Like if this is a channel, it's like a utility business. Everybody is on in the pandemic. Like you imagine all five stars are open in pandemic, all five stars. So everybody go dine over there and going out without paying, what will be the situation of that business? So the same year in broadcasting, the people are consuming the content in pandemic very well. But the bill says to pay by the advertisers is not much there what they are asking discounts. That's exactly what Sunil Lula said, saying that while the audience has increased, the index is at a historic low. So to say and hopefully July onwards, we'll see some groups. My final question to you, Mr. Adhikari. What is it that you say to yourself and people around you? You know, everyone has something that they say to motivate themselves and to be able to explain what the life and businesses either to your son, to your daughter-in-law, to your, you know, daughter-in-law's children who look up to you. I always tell them that always be positive. So that is the inspiration. You should give it to the children. You are giving already, but I have been lucky enough to know you and know you closely. So I have learned a lot from you. And, you know, you're blessed to have a child who is so mature at this young age, you know, Ravi Kailash, not patronizing them, but just because I know and I know that, you know, the best years of Shri Adhikari brothers are ahead of you. So I wish you luck. And I look forward to another conversation soon enough with you. Hopefully you'll have your non-COVID times and I look forward to launch of an OTT platform sometime soon from Shri Adhikari brother. Thank you, Dr. Bhatra. Amen. Thank you.