 Greetings, everyone. I am James Milan and this is Talk of the Town. We are here for a legislative update with our state rep, or one of our two state reps anyway. Dave Rogers. Dave is 24th Middlesex District Rep and that means portion of Arlington, portion of Cambridge, and all of Belmont. So thanks for joining us, Dave. Good to be here. Thank you. It's been, it took a little while to be able to arrange for you to be here. You guys have been very, very busy, as we know, and we'll talk about that. Okay, great. Great. I'd like to start, though, on a kind of a bigger, with the bigger scope, and that is, I was mentioning to you before we went on air that the wound of the Roe v. Wade, or the Dobbs decision from the Supreme Court, that wound was very fresh when I spoke to a couple of your colleagues earlier. It still is, though, I think, and I was noting to you that in your July newsletter that your office put out, your tone, well, I'll let you go ahead and describe for yourself how you're feeling, but you use some very strong language in your reaction to the Supreme Court decision. So talk to us a little bit about that. Sure. I obviously profoundly disagree with the decision to put it mildly. I think, unfortunately, the Supreme Court, as I put it, took a wrecking ball to its own validity as an institution. And as I said in my newsletter, it's been packed with right-wing conservative judges through unscrupulous means. What I mean by unscrupulous means is you'll recall, toward the end of his tenure, President Obama had a vacancy. Justice Scalia had died. And he nominated, actually, a pretty moderate judge, Merrick Garland, who's now the Attorney General of the United States of America. But Garland had been a prosecutor. He prosecuted the Oklahoma City bombing cases. He was not a firebrand, far-left pick for the Supreme Court. He was a sensible. He had the highest rating for the American Bar Association, was a highly respected judge. And as you recall, Mitch McConnell, then the Senate Majority Leader, would not even give Merrick Garland a hearing. Maybe in the end, he wouldn't get secure the necessary votes. But he didn't get a hearing. He didn't get a hearing, which had never really happened. And so, you know, McConnell said, well, it's the final year of Obama's term. We should wait for the American people to vote for their next president. So flash forward to Amy Coney Barrett, the final year of a president's term. Using the McConnell rule, she didn't even get a hearing. She was rushed through by the Republicans. So showed total hypocrisy, I mean, naked hypocrisy in governance. And this is what, for those paying attention, and a fair number of Americans do, not all of us pay really close attention, but many do. What does that do to the trust and the faith in our public institutions? To people just begin to throw their hands up in the air and say, this is a rigged system that's unfair, unjust, and is not working in my interest as an American citizen. So, you know, I really couldn't be more, really livid about what happened. It's outrageous. I'm a lawyer. I know you also studied law. There is this principle of stare decisis, which is basically means that precedent should be respected. So that's a very powerful thing. So if you're a judge, you're not just going to cavalierly impose your own viewpoint or a different viewpoint on existing law. And the Roe decision had been standing for 50 years, half a century. So it was outrageous. But in the House, we acted very quickly. And we passed, first of all, last session we codified Roe. So here in Massachusetts, abortion remains legal and safe. But we went a step further, just a week and a half ago. And we put in place protections for health care providers so that if there are laws passed in other states as there are, including imposing criminal penalties on health care providers, health care providers here are shielded from that. In Massachusetts, state agencies cannot cooperate with these investigations. In addition, we made it so that insurance companies must cover reproductive health care, including eliminating deductibles and co-pays and everything. So we acted dramatically and quickly in the wake of Roe. And if I can just interject here, explain to people just how unusual that is, because recent conversations with you and others of our legislators have again kind of reflected the fact that legislation in general and the way the legislature operates extends over a long period of time. There are bills that I filed that didn't become law for six years. Many still are not law. Right, which is not atypical. Not atypical. No, it's more common. So this was extremely unusual, yes. Yeah, I mean six, I don't know the exact number, 5,500, 6,000, 6,500 or more bills get filed every session, thousands of bills and a much smaller subset actually make it all the way to become law. Because think about it, it has to go through the committee process. So if it's on transportation, it goes to the Transportation Committee. Every stakeholder, for and against an idea, gets a chance to weigh in. There's a public hearing. Experts weigh in. Then the committee staff has to go over the languages. Is it written properly? Does it have to be rewritten? So there are lawyers and people with experts in public policy and the legislators going over the bills. And then if it gets reported out, then it has to clear a couple more committees before it would ever get to the floor of the House. If it makes through all those hurdles, it's only cleared the House. Now it has to go to the Senate. And the Senate goes through its own deliberative process of hearing from experts, of people having a chance to weigh in. And then it has to clear the Senate. Then a conference committee is formed. The House and Senate almost never pass the exact same version of a bill. I think in my time in the legislature, I've seen that happen once or twice maybe. But it's very unusual. And both sides understandably have, call it, pride of authorship. There were certain reasons each provision is in the bill. And so when you go into conference committee, if you're the Senate negotiator and I'm the House negotiator, it's not like we just magically, easily agree. You're advocating for your point of view. I'm advocating for mine. I've even seen, not too often, but I've seen conference committees just fall apart, unable to reach agreement. So after everything that happened to get it through the House, get it through the Senate, the conference committee, the negotiators from the House and the Senate cannot agree, then if they do agree, it goes to the governor. And unlike at the federal level, a U.S. president has basically a binary two options, veto or sign. But here in Massachusetts and in some other states, the governor has a third option, he can veto, sign or amend it. So he can amend it and send it back to us for more discussion. And we saw that happen on some bills with Governor Baker during my time in the legislature. So all that, pardon me, describing the intricate details of the legislative process. But all of that means that getting a bill all the way over the finish line to be signed into law by the governor is a very involved process. Right, it's a big lift. Yes. And deliberative by design is the phrase I tend to use. It's a deliberative process. That's by design because we're passing laws that impact the lives of close to 7 million people that live here in the Commonwealth. So it ought to be done carefully, thoughtfully. Now I do get frustrated at times, of course, because I think there are ideas that are ready to go that have been vetted adequately. They've had adequate study and vetting and they don't make it over the finish line. Like everyone in their work experiences frustrations, that's a frustration in my line of work. When you have an idea you've been working on and it's been vetted, it's been modified and edited. Right, it's gone through so many steps in this process already. A lot of people have weighed in, it appears to be ready to go and you can't quite make it. So I've had some successes and got a number of things into law, but then I have a whole series of other things that I really think would be good law, would improve the quality of life for people who live here, would protect the environment or protect civil rights or women's rights or whatever and they just don't quite make it and it's frustrating. And I would imagine 100% of your colleagues would nod their heads in agreement that that is something that they understand is just simply part of that process. So again, standing in stark contrast to that was this rapid fire legislation that just went through. How does something like that happen? Well I think in this particular case, the Senate had added a budget amendment to its budget, which is really a spending document, but outside policy sections are put into the budget and that was good, it was a strong statement about protecting healthcare providers and the House was looking at that and said, you know what, in light of Rowe, that amendment had been added to the Senate budget amendment I think before Rowe was overturned, although we had seen the leaked opinion, we didn't know if it would actually be overturned. The House had that information that indeed the leaked opinion was true, that's what was going to happen and it was overturned. So we did a little more thorough going bill in the House that took up what was in the Senate budget amendment but also a bunch of other things and so the Senate will then get a chance to look at that too. Alright, well I want to make sure that we have enough time to talk about your particular legislation as we're nearing the end of the term. We're talking to you in the second week of July and the term will end at the end of this month so I know we have bills to highlight that you would like to talk about. But just one last word on what we've been talking about so far and that is the Supreme Court, as you've already alluded to, serious concerns around trust in the institution, around politicization of the process there, etc. Sure, there's talk of increasing the number of seats. So how do you see things, you know, just a couple of words about things as you look forward here. How are you feeling? I mean, it's, again, deeply frustrated and angry about what has happened, mostly with Roe but also on guns, also a decision on the Clean Air Act, an administrative law which could have far-reaching implications, it's bad enough what they did on the Clean Air Act issue but could have broader implications. As could the Roe decision and the Dobs decision and the Roe decision. So, you know, we have a 6-3 conservative majority for the foreseeable future. Things can change, people could retire, people could die and there could be replacements but at least now, you know, what will happen at the federal level, I don't know. There has been talk of increasing the number of seats, you know, then you would need to do that. We don't have a filibuster proof majority in the U.S. Senate, the Democrats don't. Could you suspend that rule? Just as it was suspended to approve Supreme Court justices because they have a supermajority requirement in the U.S. Senate of 60 votes to reach what's called cloture, to cut off debate and move to final passage. They suspended that rule, the Republicans, to pass the Supreme Court justice and put could you suspend that rule for another Supreme Court related thing, increasing the size. I mean, it would be a huge debate, hugely controversial. I don't know what will happen but at the state legislative level, what I can do is use my influence wherever I can to increase the pushback against a horrible federal agenda. We have strong gun laws here. We've passed three major climate bills. There's another one in conference right now. So we have strong gun laws. We've done a lot on climate. We need to do more. We've codified row to protect the choice and expanded it as well as provided protection for health care providers and on the cost side, mandating insurance coverage. So we are aggressively pushing back in our state legislature against a tide coming from the federal level that's very negative and I will continue to use all my influence and all my energy to do that. It's been a precarious strange time. We've all been living through in public policy and politics. We had an insurrection at the Capitol last year. We're learning from the January 6 hearings. It wasn't just a riotous mob without a plan. There was a plan, including lawyers drafting detailed memoranda, a plan to throw the election into the U.S. House, a plan to disrupt. So it is not melodramatic or hyperbole to say we had an attempted coup in the United States of America. You have to call things what they are and not use soft language. We had an attempted coup d'etat in the United States of America. We have to own that. We have to know what happened. That's why we passed the voting rights, voting legislation here to expand voting. So other conservative states are going the other direction. They're making it more challenging to vote, voter ID laws and the like. We have made permanent mail-in voting, early voting, jail-based voting to alert those in prison of their rights to vote. If you've been convicted of a felony in our state, you temporarily lose. But there are plenty of people awaiting trial or others who still can vote. So we put in the legislation improvements to jail-based voting. So we're expanding voting rights here, and it led to record turnout in 2020, the highest turnout in state history. So at every turn, we are trying to pass a robust agenda that protects rights, expands rights, improves our democracy. And we need to keep doing that because it's, as I say, and as people know, it's been a very difficult time in really in U.S. history for what's going on. Right. And I do think that that justifies, in fact, the fact that we've now spent kind of two-thirds of our conversation, which, again, usually is about the particular work that you are invested in and sponsoring in the state house. And we've just spent this time talking about these broader issues because, again, it's just such a huge foundational shift in our political life that we are undergoing. Right. And the pendulum always shifts, and Obama loved to talk about President Obama. If you look at American history, it's often two steps forward and a step back. And there's been periods of regressive retrenchment, where reactionary forces push back against progress. We just need to keep pushing forward. And I tend to be glass half-full person. It's been an incredibly difficult time. But I think we have to just keep steadfast in fighting for the things we believe in to expand opportunity and expand rights and, as they say, make it a more perfect union. So. All right. Well, Dave, in the 10 minutes we have left, let's talk about as quickly as we can or as succinctly as we can, major pieces of legislation that you are looking forward to, close to the finish line, at the finish line. You already mentioned the VOTES Act, which is a very important piece of legislation we've spoken to your colleagues about as well. But you tell, let me throw it to you. What is it that you would like to highlight that constituents know about what's going on in this? Well, there's a climate bill, a clean energy and climate bill. Climate change bill in conference committee. The House passed, again, as we talked about earlier, the House passed one version. The Senate a different version than the House and Senate negotiators have to work things out. Jeff Roy is a good friend of mine who's the chair of the Telecom Utilities and Energy Committee. And Mike Barrett is the senator, I believe he's in Lexington. Is it Lexington? I don't know. At any rate, I don't think it's Lexington. I don't know his exact boundaries of his district. At any rate, he is the lead negotiator for the Senate and they need to work out a deal. It's we're inching up to the deadline. It's a complicated piece of legislation. I think they ought to be able to reach some sort of agreement. I'm a big believer in the legislative process of get a deal because you can always go back the subsequent legislative session. And if there are parts of it that need to be improved or modified, file legislation to modify or improve it. But get a deal. So I hope they'll reach a deal. That's a major wind power investments, major issues related to climate. We've done a lot on climate already, three major pieces of legislation, but we need to keep pushing. We did pass the driver's license bill where undocumented immigrants will be able to get driver's licenses starting next year. That was a really big breakthrough. Social justice advocates and immigrant rights advocates have been pushing that one for years. I've been a co-sponsor and you know, law enforcement supported it because these folks are going to drive anyway. As a public safety matter, shouldn't we get them licensed, trained? And so that was a major thing that we got done. There's a mental health bill now that's in a conference committee negotiation that would address some serious mental health issues in our state. COVID both revealed and exacerbated mental health problems. I mean, I don't know if anyone got through COVID without at least some impact to their state of mind. And it's been a significant challenge. And so there's significant mental health legislation in a conference committee now. Right. And so I hope that gets completed. So I just want to jump in. You've mentioned that various things are at the conference committee. That's again, where three Senate appointees and three House appointees kind of get together, wrestle out those last details, hopefully, and come up with the legislation to put before the chambers. That's exactly right. And then the House and Senate bills can be very different. So in your experience, and because, by the way, congratulations, you've been about 10 years now since you've been there. That's right. That you've been on. So congratulations for that. In your experience over that time, getting to this point of conference committee is are you feeling, you know, the fact that it is in this committee, does it feel like it's that close? Or does it feel like, hey, you cannot take anything for granted because of the way that these things. Yeah. And I tend to be pretty blunt, hopefully diplomatic, yet blunt. The House and Senate are pretty far apart on that climate. We did a wind bill that has a whole series of really important provisions to expand wind energy. And we've authorized a huge number of megawatts of offshore wind. We're really poised to lead the nation in offshore wind. And 800 megawatts is enough to power 400,000 homes. We've authorized, I believe, 5,600 megawatts. So that's enough to power millions of homes now. But now we need to build out the infrastructure, the substations, the distribution networks, improved grid reliability, complicated electrical engineering, really. And the House has put forth a really comprehensive wind bill. The Senate passed a climate bill that has a whole series of other provisions, useful and worthwhile ideas. So now you have the House's wind bill with a Senate bill that does a variety of other things. And they have to work out a deal. And it's complicated, so a lot of climate and clean energy policy is complex. Once I had an electrical engineer explain some of it to me, I mean, that's how dense it can get. So I'm still hopeful because I think in the end, and there are a lot of advocates all around the state, many environmental groups, Sierra Club and the Environmental League of Massachusetts, 350 Massachusetts, many all pushing and advocating that it get done. I just talked to the lead house negotiator over the weekend. I called him to kind of, where are we? How can I help? So that's a big deal. And I'm hopeful, again, the mental health piece. But to get to your question was, what do I think? And I've almost given up predicting what will happen in the legislature. There are things that became law that I didn't think would make it. There are things I think ought to be the law that aren't yet. And so I'm hopeful, but it's uncertain. And this is a really dynamic and interesting time in the legislature as we hurdle toward the July 31st. Now we stay in session after July 31st, and bills can still pass in what's called an informal session. But those tend to be less controversial, less complex bills. And so I have some bills that I don't know that'll get done by July 31st, but I hope will get done maybe in an informal session, because I think they could get through that way. We've spent a fair amount of time kind of both on the intricacies of the process, but also on the substance of a number of things that are hopefully will be coming up for a vote shortly in the chambers. But let me ask you, we've also got an election coming up here in just a couple of months. I hope that we'll be able to speak to you again before election day, because we'd like to try and do so each quarter, and we'll hopefully get a fall session with you in before that. But let me just get your thoughts on the fact that there's both an outgoing governor who is kind of in a lame duck place right now, I would think. Somebody you've worked with over his two terms. And then also a race, a competitive race on, well, I don't know how competitive a race it is on the Democratic side, you tell me. But your thoughts on the upcoming election? Well, yeah. I mean, there's a number of all the constitutional offices are up. And I think on the Democratic side, I'm a strong supporter of Maura Healy, our attorney general. She was kind enough. She endorsed me. I had a competitive race a couple of years ago, and was proud to have her endorsement. But I'm not endorsing her because she endorsed me. I'm endorsing her because she's supremely well qualified. She's really got a bold agenda for Massachusetts. She's thoughtful. Another thing that maybe is not often talked enough about when you talk about candidates and campaigns is temperament. And of course, you have to have a bold agenda. You have to have a skill set. She's a highly trained lawyer, attorney general. But I believe that attorney general Healy has a temperament very well suited to high level public leadership, which is I've had interactions with her any number of times on issues. She's thoughtful. She's even keeled. She's passionate on the one hand, so she has the fire to make change and thoughtful because you need both. It's one thing to be passionate and that's important, but you also have to be really thoughtful and consider all points of view. So I think she is supremely well qualified. I think she'll be our next governor when you look at who the Republicans are. Looks like they're about to put up a Trump Republican, which may play in Alabama. But I don't think is going to do well here. And so I believe more Healy will be our next governor. I think she'll be outstanding in the role. The attorney general race is an interesting one to succeed more Healy as our attorney general. I've endorsed Andrea Campbell. I think she'll be phenomenal. Her track record, the things that she's promoting, her overcoming incredible adversity in her life to be where she is today. She almost won the Boston mayor's race. She was highly competitive in that. She's a great candidate, again, another person who's really thoughtful, has a great agenda. And I think she'll make a great attorney general. And so I'm supporting her. Then the auditor's race. We have a lieutenant governor's race. I haven't picked candidates in those races, but they're interesting as well. It's going to be definitely a busy fall election, so I have no doubt about it around here. All right, we are just like that out of time. It flies by. Yeah, it really does. We appreciate the, again, you were clear that you are hopeful, but you're also blunt about speaking to the issues here. Today was a good example of where some very straight talk was what we had from you. And we'll see how things develop going forward, both nationally and within the state house. But we do appreciate you taking the time to be with us. Great to be here. I really appreciate the opportunity. It's always a pleasure. And as I said, we hope to get you back in the next couple of months before the election. And that will conclude this conversation with our state rep, Dave Rogers. We appreciate him taking the time to come into the studio and talk to us. Busy man and making time for us is always great. So thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you as well for joining us. We appreciate your time as well. I'm James Milan. This is Talk of the Town.