 Hello and welcome to Newsplik. Today we have with us Ulfa Lamloom from Tunisia, who is a researcher and has been studying various movements in the region. Ulfa, good to have you with us. Thank you. Elections in Tunisia have brought in a result which have surprised some people. The fact that Nihada, which is an Islamist organization, has come out on top, seems to have won the majority of the seats. Is that a threat to the democracy in Tunisia or do you think that this is really something which is not going to be posed long-term threat and it's something which is the Tunisian politics can well absorb. I want to say that first of all it wasn't a surprise for Tunisian people. Nihada is a historical Islamist party. It exists since 1981. It was a big party and in 1989 they had a big score for the first democratic, first democratic election under Ben Ali. After that they were repressed and the leaders were put in jail. For us, for Tunisian, it's the only party with a social base and they had and they continued to have structures and historical leadership. They were the biggest victim of oppression in Tunisia. They didn't participate like others in the revolution, but they were prepared to this sort of election. It's a real actor with militants, with structures, with history and with how we say, with a real social base. What you're saying is though they were not the leadership in the overthrow of the Ben Ali regime, but they were the only organized force on the ground and therefore it is not surprising that they have really merged on top. But the point is that there were a lot of other forces which were in the part of the democratic upsurge who led it and who seemed therefore well placed also to take advantage of it. In that sense, don't you think that the Islamist forces in that sense have been able to gain ground, though they did not really cause the democratic upheaval? I think that the vote in favor of NAHDA wasn't a vote in favor of Islamism or Islamist state. People vote in favor of NAHDA because NAHDA represent a break up with the regime, the Ben Ali regime. We had in this election more than 100 parties. The majority of those parties are new for people, are new for me also. So voting was a manifestation of people want to participate. People want to express their, to get right of former regime, of Ben Ali, of corruption. Basically, it gets rid of the former regime. That was the main task of this election for the people. Exactly, this election. It's an election for one year. It's an assembly constituent. The main task of this election, of this parliament is to write new constitution. And people vote for this, not for Islamism or not for polygamy or not for Islamism low, you know. The sharia. It's an interesting point you are making. The main meaning of this vote is that people want to break from the Ben Ali regime. It's an interesting point you are making that in fact the Libyan overthrew has produced the sharia. But an Islamist party which is one in Tunisia is saying clearly that we don't want to have sharia's law. Yeah, exactly. It's a very special Islamism. It's a light Islamism if you want. For example, the reference of NAHDA is the Islamist party in Turkey. They say in their election campaign that they will not apply sharia. They will not apply the polygamy. They are in favor of democracy, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that the balance of power now in Tunisia in this revolution process can take and arrive to the Islamist regime, you know. People are very, very mobilized actually now. What you are saying is they will be able to control the Islamist party as well. Exactly. Exactly. Because they are mobilized and they are already organized in some sense. Yeah, and very, very politicized, et cetera. So even NAHDA know that, even NAHDA know that the march of manoeuvres, I don't know how to say it, they can't do what they want, you know. They had to deal with this revolution. They have to deal with the others party, the alliances. They enabled the regime in Algeria. And they know that the regime is not in favor of revolution and spring Arab, et cetera. They have to deal with France. They have to deal with United States. They have to deal with the population in Tunisia, et cetera. So it's a very, very special context now. And Islam know that they haven't free legs to do everything. They want to be elected in one year. So they have to consider it all this context. Coming to the non-Nahada, you know, NAHDA other parties, which are the major actors? We have three parties which are either left of center or left liberal. You have the PDP and CPR. How do you look at these formations? It's very hard to have a response to your question. Your question is very interesting. But we are in a transitional context and period, you know. So everything is very fluid. And in movement, we can't say, I think in this election, people vote for break up, you say? Break with the past. No Ben Ali, no parties compromised with Ben Ali. They vote for NAHDA because NAHDA was the biggest victim of Ben Ali. They vote for CPR because most of Marzoukhi was a figure of opposition to Ben Ali. They vote for Takatol because Takatol wasn't in the landscape before the revolution, you know. And when we see the results, we see that all the parties existed before and were implicated in the regime. Even little bit. People didn't vote for them, you know. So what's the force of the other? I think that the future, maybe future can bring some response to our question. So in the movement, it's difficult to estimate or difficult to understand where they would be going. But basically what distinguishes them is really that they were anti-Ben Ali. They were not compromised. While a lot of the older political forces were compromised with the association with Ben Ali. That's what is really the result of this election. There is also certain sections of the left which have got some seats. But they seem to be quite small. So do you think the left has a possibility of being able to come together and build a kind of left alternative poll in the future? I think that there is another actor which be out of this election. The other actor is the trade unionist in Tunisia. There is a big tradition of trade unionism in Tunisia. The UGTT, Union Generale de Travailleur Tunisienne, the General Union of Workers in Tunisia was since the independence of Tunisia a real actor, political and social. And this, in this time, in this election, this trade union choose to be outside. And I think that in the future we have to see this actor because the only possibility to build a third alternative is left alternative. Social alternative, anti-liberal alternative is around this trade union. It's interesting because this trade union movement is the one which also spearheaded the agitation against Ben Ali. And it was instrumental in fact bringing out the whole support, particularly in smaller towns and other places against Ben Ali. And it was not just the students and youth who were personally important. And that dimension of this Tunisian revolution has manifested politically as yet. Exactly. And even in the, for example, in the city where this trade unionist is very strong, not the leadership, but the structure... The second level leadership. Exactly. Play a real role in the, in the political pricing during December and January, you know. And in the end of this year, in December, this trade union will have their congress. And I think that it will be a very interesting event even in terms of future of the movement of the process and of the fight against Tunisia. Yeah. So what you're saying is that a lot will depend on how the trade union over there. And this is really a very powerful trade union which has existed with the whole history of resistance and left, left intonation and so on. How it really... Yeah, because even until now, the bureaucracy had the control of the trade unions. And everything changed around even Ben Ali. It's not now in Saudi Arabia, but the same bureaucracy is continue to control, you know. And I think that the next congress will be... A new leadership. Yeah, a new leadership and a new possibility and opportunity to involve it in the movement and in the social movement, etc. So what you're saying is the other poll in the Tunisian politics, the left poll, if you will, will really have to come out of this trade union movement. Exactly. Around which you can have other... Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. One year, Constituent Assembly, do you think that in this sense democratization will only deepen in Tunisia? Or do you think that it has reached a position where actually it can be rolled back? I think... I'm Tunisian and I spent 10 years without the possibility to go to Tunisia. As an exile. Yeah, an exile in France. The situation really changed now, you know. People are very enthusiastic. There are many, many free, real practice of free speech, free organization, et cetera. So we have many rights now in reality, you know, in this context. And I think that it's a big victory to throw... We can't throw... It's Shau Ben Ali and his regime, et cetera. But the main actor of the dictator is still here, he still exists. The Minister of Interior and... The Minister of Interior. Interior is still in Tunisia and it's still active and is still decide, you know. So this year will be very important in the... Democratic transformation in Tunisia. Democratic transformation in Tunisia. But I'm optimistic because we, how we say, we succeed to have free speech, free speech, free speech, to have new rights and new opportunity, real opportunity. And people are very, very, very careful, you know. And they know that their... The only guarantee is that their mobilization, you know. So their vigilance and mobilization for... Yeah, and their vigilance, et cetera. The freedoms that they have won, you think will protect the democracy in Tunisia and only dip it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Thank you very much. So... Well, this has been a great discussion. Hope to see you back.