 Poku, happy 2024. And it went really unbelievably well for a period of time, as is often the case with people who get involved in. If I trade my own account, I have a complete understanding of what I'm capable of and I understand what's possible and I can be aggressive or I can be conservative. But with other people's money, you've got to be bloody conservative. I was very goal-orientated and financially motivated, but I had to move to a place of being someone who is driven by process. When you buy a company, or buy a piece of a company, or you're not going to lend money to a company, this company can do something good for the world or bad for the world. The first thing I think is to find companies, banks or whatever that is really committed to change. And in one year, the income of those guys increased at around 38%. It's incredible. Well, little story. Welcome back to the first T-Show episode of the new year. Happy 2024, where it's time to trade thoughts. Yes, Poku. How you doing? New year, same style. I absolutely love it. Well, welcome back. We've got some unbelievable guests for you today, but the most important question I want to ask right now is Poku. Happy 2024. How you doing? Yeah, thanks. Big 2024. You know, we're nearly halfway through the decade. It's just crazy that, you know, we're not here. 2024 is a big year. You know, when it comes to even new year resolutions as well, I know you're going to ask me, but for me personally, I personally believe in making change when you notice that you need to make a change. So that is in June, July, February, whatever. But yeah, I mean, yeah, new year's resolutions this year, you know, this is more about staying focused, getting to the bag and, yeah, just elevating and focusing on my discipline. I love that. How are you? I'm actually quite similar to you. I think new year's resolutions, I started mine in December actually, because it's kind of like a little bit of a cheat, because if I can't do it the whole of December, I feel like I can't bring it into January. That's kind of like a little policy that I have. So, so many people end their new year's resolutions by February. So that's just a little tactic that I use. But yeah, my goals this year are, you know, more balance and more learning, I think. For me, learning is going to be a big part of this year. Through books, through podcasts, through the incredible guests that we're going to have on this show. I mean, what do you want from the show in 2024? I mean, 2023 was amazing. Oh. I'd love to know what you want to do in 2024. Yeah, no, we ended 2023 really great actually. We had John Fury, one of the high-profile guests. Big John Fury. Yes. For that time when he caught you in the face off camera. I never happened, no way. That happened, oh yeah, no. I wouldn't be here to tell the story. You've had time for it to heal. It's fine, okay. You can talk about it. We're an open show. Yeah, but you know, with 2024 for the T-Show, I just want more profillic guests, people that I can learn from, people that you can delve into stories because that's a trajectory I've seen going in 2023. I like it. We're going to have an incredible 2024. And the best way to start an incredible 2024 is with a great first episode. So who have we got going on today? Yeah, yeah. So starting off, we actually got one of Tick Mill's top market strategists and expert in trading, a professional trader, Patrick Moneyly, who also manages a portfolio of around $20 million. So that's really great. I would love to learn from him and understand the shifts and changes from managing your own money to managing such a sum. So it'll be great to learn from him. Who else have we got? Well, straight after actually flying in from Brazil, we've got João Paulo Pacifico. I've probably butchered that name. But really interesting guest. So he's the CEO and the founder of the Gaia Group. And that mainly evolves around now impact investing. So we're going to speak a lot about that topic. If you don't know what it is, well, stick around because you're going to learn. He's also one of LinkedIn's top voices with hundreds of thousands of people that follow him on good practices in the workplace, how he's created companies where employees actually want to work there and they prosper in all areas of their life. So that's another great topic. And he's on the board for Greenpeace Brazil. And I believe that he has many kind of donations and kind of charities that help people of Brazil. So it's going to be a truly fascinating conversation. And like with every episode, I know we spoke about news resolutions, but every T-show episode should leave you with another resolution to add to your life. Am I right? 100%. Every episode, you can learn something from someone that's very experienced in their field when it comes to trading or even wine tasting. And you can apply that lesson to your own life. So it's a win-win situation when you watch these episodes. Unless it's in Poki's case where the wine tasting is just drinking wine every night, right? No, I'm joking. All right, anyway, let's dive straight into the show, guys. Where it's time to trade thoughts with Patrick Munnily. Sweet. Sweet. Yes, guys. It's time to trade thoughts with Patrick Munnily with one an early professional trader, money manager, tip nose market strategist, mentor and commentator. How are you doing? Very good. Nice to meet you guys. How are you doing? It's great. It's great. The loud uplift here. It's been a great episode. So how is it coming back to London? Cold. Very, very cold. And like we were just saying, quite dark. Yeah, though, you know, it's a shame that some people may wake up, they see darkness, go to work, and they're surrounded by walls and come out in this darkness. Yeah, yeah. And also spending a lot of time under fluorescent lights doesn't actually add to the mental health situation. You're not hanging out this podcast by any chance are you? So where is it your best? I'm based in Mallorca, the south coast, in a town called Cecilinas. Well. Two minutes from the beach. And what was a full process lack when looking to Muir Vida? I just, I've always preferred living in the sunshine. I spent some time living in LA, spent quite a lot of time in America on the west coast when I was younger. And at one point I was thinking about relocating there permanently. But I come from a big family. I'm the oldest of six kids. And that comes with its own responsibilities. And so the flight time from LA to London versus London to Mallorca is more manageable to deal with all the family commitments. When it comes to living over there, lots of sunshine and whatnot, what effect would you say that has on your mood when it comes to trading and whatnot? It's huge. I really think that, you know, even just outside of trading, just from a lifestyle perspective, having access to sunlight on a daily basis is really important for humans. I mean, you know, originally we lived a lot closer to the equator. That access to sunlight is really important for your mental health in keeping you upbeat and uplifted. And so, you know, the constant gray of, let's say, you know, any country that is on this type of timeline is difficult for people. And, you know, like we were saying before, you know, the clock's changing and stuff, and this trending hashtag, permatired, you know, it impacts people really significantly but I'm really fortunate the office I trade from in my house is just glass, you know, it's glass, and so I'm permanently getting sunshine. And yeah, it makes a big difference, big difference. I'd love to take you back to, I suppose, the beginning of trading. We just touched upon it there. Why? Why trading? How did you get into it from the start? What's the story? I wasn't involved in the markets. After I graduated from university, I joined an executive search firm in the city and worked there for a couple of years, learned the ropes, and this was just as the dot-com boom was hitting and me and a couple of the guys from there left and we set up our own firm. We were dealing with venture capital firms from the US who were looking to bring operations from the West Coast into Europe, and so obviously London is the first spot for that and we were basically putting in place the guys who were going to run those operations. So we headhunted guys out of bigger tech firms to come start some more tech firms that would eventually obviously grow. And that grew pretty quickly, and so at a young age I was able to cash in my stake in that company and to one degree another retired and had a lot of time in my hands. And I had friends who were working in the city, working at hedge funds. Because of the type of work we were doing, I was exposed to guys who were basically taking equity in companies and overnight flipping it for a lot of money. So this market mentality appealed to me and so like I say, had some time in my hands, had some chips to play with and started I guess day trading the S&P 500 or more day gambling really at that stage. I didn't have a clue what I was doing. So I started 2004 just betting. Basically I'd buy an upmarket, if the market opened up I'd buy it, if it opened down I'd sell it. And I hit a run and it went really... unbelievably well for a period of time as is often the case with people who get involved in this for some reason. There's a beginner's luck syndrome and you hit a run and you think you're invincible, which is what I thought I was. And then in January 2005 I remember I got off a plane in Paris, checked my black green tail along that... and I'd been averaging down basically into what was to become a huge losing position. I mean I lost a six figure sum so it was a gut wrenching and sobering experience as an understatement. The BlackBerry didn't survive the tarmac and yeah so I lost a lot of money and it had a big impact on me and a big impact you know I got divorced through that process and found myself in a position where I knew that it was feasible, I knew it was feasible to make money from the markets, I just didn't understand how to do it and so I networked as I had done as a headhunter and through contacts got introduced to a guy who became my mentor. He basically you know taught me the process of trading but more importantly than that and something that I couldn't have conceived of at the time when I first had... well we exchanged emails and then I had a telephone call with him and he asked me about how I'd got to where I was and I'd explained and he told me about the money and stuff and he said are you angry? And I hadn't really thought whether or not I mean it was a meaningful sum of money but I was fortunate that I still had capital you know I wasn't broke but I didn't think it through and when I thought about it after the call I thought yeah I'm really pissed off this has impacted me badly and so the next telephone call I had with him he said how do you thought about last call and I was like yeah I had really actually thought a lot about what this actually meant to me losing all this cash and so he gave me the name of a therapist and I didn't speak to him again for six months but I didn't speak to the therapist and went through a process of like self-inventory and understanding what had driven me to where I was and what I was going to need to do to get to a place where I could come back to this and win at it and it was a really meaningful period to change my life and I got involved in martial arts and meditation and just totally changed the way I was living and then he taught me how to actually put in place a process understand risk management and actually turn the gambling into trading and making consistent money well, well story you know going from having a you know begins luck to then losing money to then having to restart all of it and learn certain things get a mentor and then you know him having to send you to a therapist and understand he didn't send me after we had that conversation the second was that he was like, look if it has had that type of impact on you you're never going to make it in this business because you're going to be coming for a place of revenge and that's really what I would have been doing and so I'd have actually ultimately gone through all the cash trying to make back what I'd lost when in reality I had to come back to it for a place of presence and perspective and you know, not thinking or not harboring that thought of loss and revenge you now manage a portfolio of over 20 million so that process definitely seemed to work yeah, that didn't happen overnight it all looks great now but you know when I was 30 and was back at my parents you know, it wasn't so great but there were things I needed to do things I needed to change in my life to get to where I am now and that was part of that process and managing other people's money also comes with a different set of responsibilities because if I trade my own account I have a complete understanding of what I'm capable of and I understand what's possible and I can be aggressive or I can be conservative but with other people's money you've got to be bloody conservative you know, when I speak to people about when they want to invest money with me or let me manage their money the conversation is always about the upside whereas my perspective is what can you take on the downside because people think if they can invest over a grand they think they're going to be comfortable with being down 20 or 30 grand when they actually look at their account and they see it it's a different story but if you did have to compare current you to that original version of you what would you tell that person I suppose that person so is it eager to get into trading maybe for the wrong reasons what would you tell them to go away and think about and learn before they started self-inventory is the key getting comfortable with yourself understanding what motivates you what drives you understanding what aspects of your personality are going to be counterproductive to what you want to achieve when I started out I was ill disciplined I was, like I said, thought I was invincible because I've had early success that comes with its own set of issues but then there are other people I guess who come to the markets from a perspective of need the last thing you want to be doing is trading to pay your rent or your mortgage just forget it because again those pressures are not going to allow you to execute a process properly because again the narrative is going to be different in your mind you're going to be looking at the markets thinking you know I need, I need I come from a place of presence and like I was saying before you know the market is just a data set you're ultimately trading yourself and how you perceive the data whereas once you become I had to move away from being really I was very goal orientated and financially motivated but I had to move to a place of being someone who was driven by process and that's a different perspective really different yeah that's very powerful because I like to say that your financial results are derived by the actions so to be this you know a million dollar trader you need to act like a million dollar trader before you become one yeah and fake it to you make it it's a big part of things you know if you can manifest mentally where you want to be and you stick to a process and you're disciplined and you have patience then you will progress along the journey and ultimately you'll get to where you want to be but so many people you know come to this with what they think they're going to make from it as opposed to what you're actually going to do to make it talk to me more about your processes especially as someone that's managing so much money what would you say your processes for starting a trade in there or even that before starting from that before I like I say I meditate daily I meditate in the morning and as I said before I meditate if I'm going to trade effectively trade the New York session I meditate before the session opens because that brings me totally present so like I was saying about thinking of the market as a data set and just your response to that data and executing your process consistently you have to have that presence and so that has been a you know a big part of my success also like I said 15 years ago I started doing Wing Chun and again that discipline patience presence game changer I want to change the tone for a second and speak a little bit about Tick Mill because we are here on the tea show we are the tea guys ourselves how have you found working with Tick Mill? from the get go I found it a rewarding experience I hadn't worked with a broker before I had been approached by numerous brokers over the years but I had a personal contact who was working with Tick Mill at the time and she approached me asking would I be prepared to get involved and provide strategy and analysis and I thought for a while about whether or not it was something I wanted to do but then at the same time what I realised was that part of my process is giving back what I've got out of this and so the analysis I provide the groups that I run is part of me giving back from what I've got out of this business so it's taken me off a fantastic platform for me to do that I love that and I think when we were doing our research we even sent some of your recent your recent work, your recent trade results I mean it got poker very excited and I suppose that's part of the strategy and the things that you're teaching through Tick Mill What I really try and focus on is transparency because like we're saying this industry so you know a lot of people are only prepared I guess to a large degree to again just talk about the upside whereas I'm totally transparent I get stopped out I lose but because I'm no longer so goal orientated I'm process orientated it's totally irrelevant to me I'm not trying to prove to people how you know how great I am at this what I'm trying to show them is what's possible you know I'm not a signal provider and I'm not spoon feeding people but what I am prepared to do is offer the pieces to the puzzle for people who want to put in the work and put it together for themselves you said the words transparency and a question I think we love to ask our guests is about the biggest mistake or the biggest failure they've had now I know you touched earlier Abona which I'm sure ranks high but I suppose since you've rebuilt those skills and actually learnt the proper techniques are there any experiences again that you've probably taken your biggest learnings from? Because I'm not focused on the outcomes and what I'm focused on is executing the process there are periods where I lose quite a lot of money but I know that that's just part of the dataset and so I don't have the same associations I guess where someone getting involved starting out they think that the outcome of the next trade is the most important thing and I'm looking way past that that's definitely good because it shows that you're just far ahead in your journey in the sense of you don't think of it as if this win happens listen don't get me wrong when I started out it's that hellish emotional roller coaster God this better work out whereas once it's a business and you're coming to it from that perspective it just has a different impact you just don't have those same associations and certainly over time you build such a degree of resilience because you know all the scenarios and events that I've traded through I know what I'm capable of I wanted you to also describe yourself in terms of what trade profile you would say so for example swing intraday the way I structure my business is that I have different capital allocates to different time frames so I have structural positions that I take on that you know may run three, six, nine months would be year and then I have swing trading positions which may be two, three days and then when I want to I trade intraday and you know those trades can last two, three minutes but again because it's a business for me those are just those are silos within my business you know I'm not focused on any one at varying times some you know for example at the moment structurally I'm you know short the dollar, long gold I'm on the markets I know when I want to deploy more capital to those positions or when I'm going to deploy more capital to intraday opportunities because of my perception of the volatility in the markets etc so it varies I don't classify I'm just a trader I trade the market Do you have any personal preference to out of those freed intraday structural swing you know I've been trading the S&P futures market now for you know over 15 years and I have an affinity with that market and I have a pretty deep understanding of where opportunities exist there and so that's really probably where my focus is but again thinking about it from a business level I know there are times when there are opportunities in other markets that I can apply the same process and I'll focus on that market at that given time what I don't do is sit around flipping between charts looking for you know a moving average across the house you know again it's the idea of deploying capital in a business sense so before the episode we looked at your chart your performance historically becomes a trading and I found it funny that you've outperformed S&P 500 trading the S&P 500 which is interesting but I wanted to get more into your strategy how would you describe it to someone I run a strategy group through Facebook for TickMail there are two aspects to it there's the main page so to speak where I post a degree of information that is would have value to someone who's passively involved in the market who wants to get a sense of where an opportunity is that type of I guess less involved or less active trader can use that information and benefit from it and then we have a chat group where it's basically people get to see my trading journal almost so I share my perspective on the markets where I see opportunities developing I share swing trades like I said before it's not a signal service and I'm not spoon feeding people I'm just showing people what I do and giving them the pieces of the puzzle that if they're prepared to put in the work they can put it together and make it work for them and the performance that I share is just simply my day to day P&L again there are trades that I lose and they see that one thing I do do is when I from time to time actually share specific entries that I'm going to take I also share my stop where I'm going to be wrong and that never changes and so a lot of time as I think with people who show their trade results you don't see what risk is associated with those results and so you can have fantastic upside but like I was saying before in terms of conversations with investors or people who want me to manage their money it's focusing on what the volatility associated with that will be so I share the stop strategy I have so that people can understand how to professionally manage risk and so I update that through the the trader chat and like I say I share trade plans that I'm going to be using for the London and New York sessions and I again through those plans I show people where I'm going to engage in the market and I also show them what I think is achievable if the market moves in a certain direction and where I see a realistic opportunity for profit and that opportunity but most specifically and I have at the top of every trade plan is this is what my stop loss is when it comes to say stop losses and what not would you say you look for more structural areas or is it like a fixed percentage from my business it's a percentage so like I was saying before when it's other people's money it's conservative so I would tend to trade per position 0.25% to 0.5% of an account's equity whereas the trades I share through the strategy group are on my own account and so I'm a bit more aggressive because like I said before I've been doing it on time and I know what I'm capable of so I'll risk 1%, 2% per position depending upon what the market's doing and how in sync I feel with the market action so that outperformance to the S&P 500 Yeah I've actually an interesting question so online, me and Gabriel we talk a lot about for the passive person that works their job your best bet is going along with the S&P Yeah I mean just invest in the spy, the ETF you know just allocate a certain amount of your money and get involved you know because unless the human race is going to change dramatically over a long period of time it just compounds and you know compounding is probably one of the miracles of life not just compounding in terms of trading but compounding knowledge compounding commitment compounding is a fantastic tool and certainly if you haven't got time to actively engage in the market then yeah just invest As someone that has actively beaten the market would you say you are investing a portion of your wealth into the S&P or is it 90% of my net worth is tied up in my trading again One final question that we'd like to ask every guest is about the future I know you mentioned about maybe moving away from managing other people's money and going into your own but in terms of the industry what's getting you excited what's maybe causing some nerves and what are you curious about I mean obviously you know AI is a thing and you know we'll see where that leads I personally and again from the podcast one of the great quotes was Paul Craven said that he has some friends who are pretty high up in the chess world and a computer will be a human most times but a human with a computer will be a computer more times than you would think and so I think there's going to be some type of symbiosis as opposed to AI is just going to take over the markets and you know that's it'll be a computer trading computer we've already got that happening now an aspect of the business I don't fear that anytime soon I'm going to be redundant and on that note thank you very much absolutely pleasure joining us on today pleasure it's now time to trade thoughts with our unique guest João Paulo Pacifico definitely the first time I got that right João welcome to the show thank you it was a pleasure for me to be here thank you for having me absolute pleasure just to give the listeners a bit of context you are the founder and the CEO of the Gaia Group you're also one of LinkedIn's top voices and correct me if I'm wrong but with over 600,000 followers on LinkedIn 450,000 small numbers here you've also written a few books you're on the board of Greenpeace Brazil and you are a big advocate for impact investing as well as other endowments to help with the planet and sustainability and all this kind of thing so an incredible CV but I kind of want to start back with your company and maybe the history of your company and specifically how you transitioned from just having a company that was the idea was about making money and that side of things to a place that's more about impact on the planet on the environment firstly when did that decision happen and why did you make it? I started the company in 2009 and the motivation to start the company I was a kind of uncomfortable with the lack of humanity in the financial market everyone is just numbers and they forgot to see that there is a human being on the other side the employee is a human so I started Gaia trying to have a company in which everyone could be happy working even in the financial market so I started to study positive psychology happiness, purpose how can we have an environmental in which everyone can be happy so this is completely different from the greedy financial market in which everyone just look for money, for numbers and then I started that in 2009 and then we created 10 values in the company and the first value is practice gratitude and make others smile, be kind, celebrate so it's a kind of different from the market but we were doing the same of other companies we are financing big real estate properties that we culture but then in 2014 we opened our first NGO to help kids so to give education to poor people and it was a kind of a shift in our story and then in 2014 also we became one of the first big corpse in Brazil, big corpse is a world movement of companies that tried to make the world better so in 2014 and then in 2016 I realized that I could use the instruments of the financial market to make the world better, to reduce the inequality to combat the climate change so then we started to use the instruments that I use just to finance big buildings to help poor people to make the construction of people for affordable housing and then we make a shift in 2016-17 and then in 2022 I sold all of the parts of the group, Grupo Gaia, that were not related to impact investing and I decided just to go with impact investment since last year since 2022 and right now we have an endowment fund and we work to make the world better and I'm very happy with this It's incredible because I mean hopefully this doesn't come across like offensive but most people when they start a company the idea is money, money, money, money right? It's very rare to actually see someone transition into impact why? We can hear, we've heard about the story about what happened but what was it inside of you that changed? This vision to happiness is something that is not alone the happiness is collective, is something cooperative if you go to have a you can be the richest person in the world if you are alone you are going to be unhappy and we have many people that is very, very rich and is unhappy taking a lot of pills and depression and with burnout and doesn't make any sense so I also of course it's very important to have money, it's very important with money you can have a better life you can give a better school for your kids you can travel around the world but doesn't make sense if someone has a lot of money and you can see in Brazil people living in the streets and for me it doesn't make any sense I want to live in a world in which everyone can have access to health, education housing, doesn't make sense to look at other people and don't realize that I could be this person and I'm lucky that I have I live in a big city and my parents are middle class and then I'm very successful in business really but I'm not alone and when you have something that I think is very important for everyone which is compassion and not in a religion's way but when you can see we have the empathy with other people and what we can do to alleviate the suffering of others in a good way because it's going to be good for me and good for them and good for the whole population of course if we go to big cities you can have people in the streets starving, it doesn't make any sense in Brazil we have 33 million people starving and it's crazy, we cannot accept this and the responsibility for this is not for those guys it's impossible for someone that is starving that is living on the streets to go to be a middle class it's impossible but the people who have access to power and to money we can make this change and I have this kind of responsibility and I try to make my best to change it arguably one of the most inspiring two minutes that we actually had on this podcast since we started recording we talk about trading this is part of what we do on the show and a massive element of trading is this idea of money and I think it's so important for us to have the right balance to understand what money is what it can be used for and the actual impact that you can have and responsibility you have once you've earned it in the first place definitely and I wanted to start off quickly could you explain to the audience what is impact investment impact investment is when you look to risk, return and what is the impact of your investment because when you buy a company when you buy a piece of a company or when you are going to lend money to a company this company can do something good for the world or bad for the world really we have companies that are producing fossil fuels and we can see the climate change which is huge so when you are investing in a company that's doing bad for the world ok you can make money but what is the cost for the planet and for the people of your investments so impact investment is not a donation it's a responsible investment in which you are going to have direct impact in something so I'm going to give some examples we have finance and smallholder farmers in the northeast of Brazil poor people that plants cocoa and reforests and in one year the income of those guys increased around 38% it's incredible because we are making money for us we have a positive return and also we are helping the people to have a better life and also to protect the nature and to reforest so this is the impact investing when you look at those other aspects of the investing not just the graphs which is important ok I'm going to make money yes but what's the cost for everyone one thing that we see many times is that the companies and many investors privatize the profit and socialize the loss if you are damaging the environmental if you are creating some problems to climate change then everyone is going to suffer and you are going to have the profit of it how can we change it so when we have an investor that looks in other ways we can make the world better that's really good because I think being able to invest make money but also have that fulfillment we are self knowing that your money has been put to good use and impacted someone else's life I think that's definitely the best best way to go about things exactly and the world is going to be better for everyone 12% of the fresh water in the planet Brazil has a huge agriculture but the level of use of pesticides in Brazil is more than huge and we are contaminating the water of the planet there are many pesticides that are not allowed here in Europe that are allowed in Brazil and the same company that doesn't sell this product here sell this product in Brazil and investors are financing this so why not change to bio inputs in which we can have organic farming and a better water for everyone so but the financial market just look at the profit in the short term oh I'm going to make a lot of money investing in pesticides and this kind of stuff so I'm going to do this and what we try to do is we will not invest in pesticides we are going to invest in bio inputs to have a different farming so this is another look in which you just you look to everyone not just not just buy to ourselves my profit in the short term which is the kind of a rule in the financial market I want to play devil's advocate with you for us please I think that the number one question when it comes to impact investing I think in the UK the term here is like ESG investing I know that it's slightly different but same overall kind of niche is that when it comes to investing I want to just invest to make money and when it comes to my impact I want to use other areas of my life to do that whether that's through volunteering or through giving charity why do I have to now implement that into the part of my life that's really focused on making money yeah because it's everything is connected if you're going to invest a hundred and you're going to donate one the balance of what we are doing is a lot of negative so you cannot say oh I'm gonna invest I'm gonna make a lot of money doing the worst worst and then making a little money I'm gonna donate to plant some trees let's say we are gonna finance fossil fuels and plant 10 trees oh come on doesn't make sense it is just a greenwashing and unfortunately in the in Brazil I can say and even in the world ESG which is something important ESG stands for environmental social and governance when you take all of these aspects in terms of your investments decision it's good but many people uses the term ESG to make greenwashing and greenwashing is this ok I'm gonna invest something and I'm gonna donate just a little portion of it to make a marketing but we need to look because everyone is connected I'm gonna give an example which is pretty simple to understand if I have employees and I have employees with a very very low salary of course my profit is gonna be higher it's much simple we can see big companies that pays a little salary without any benefits and make more money but these guys I was seeing some companies that some employees of big companies that depends on benefits from the governments to survive and doesn't make any sense someone's gonna be a trillion dollars rich and there is a poor guy working to help this guy to be richer I completely agree with everything you said so now if we're sitting here me and Poku being like we're on board we love it impact investing is the way forward but we're concerned now because you said ESG I'm sure there's a lot of it has good intention and is doing the right thing but you said there's plenty of people that are interested in the usage of the marketing ploy how do we differentiate and how do we actually go about impact investing as an individual yeah this is a problem because the system works in a way in which they just stimulate more profit without looking at this and the system is stimulate to have greenwashing and this is very bad the first thing I think is to find companies banks or whatever that is really committed to change committed to make the world better we have some movement such as the B Corp movement which is a I believe is a good movement in the world there is some banks in Europe such as Triodos in Holland or others that are trying to do good things and the point which is important is that is not a donation is an investment we return a positive return but that positive return as Poku said before with fulfillment because you're gonna understand that your actions is making the world better is reducing the inequality is helping someone is helping the planet and we are facing huge problems very briefly because I know that a lot of listeners might have this question someone what is greenwashing greenwashing is when you have more marketing than impact you're gonna cut 100 trees you're gonna plant 3 trees and you're gonna take a photo oh look here I'm doing the world better so it's the fake marketing when you fake that you're doing something good but ok you can do something very small good but in a whole it's just marketing so with the new year a lot of people want to start making their changes personally people should make changes when they feel like the time is right but the new year resolution is here so what would you advise people that are watching to then do differently when it comes to investing out of the world good question and important question everyone in the new year starts to say I'm gonna do more yoga and many times just something for themselves how can we have a look at everyone how can we have actions to invest in a world that we believe how can we invest in something that we can make the world better of course helping you but helping others we need to understand that the happiness is not something individual the happiness is for everyone and how can we act in the true terms in order to make the world better and spread this everything that people have learned with us today how can they say it to others share these videos share this audio to make the world better and we need to understand that we have the responsibility powerful yeah I like that so you can have yoga on the list but add some other things for other people as well yeah yeah yeah of course of course we need to understand that it's very easy to say oh please government help the people help the poor people but it's impossible the private sector should take responsibility for everything I cannot accept 33 million people starving in my country what should I do I'm financing the smallholder farmers I'm donating and if everyone take a little action we can make the world better and even in investments you mentioned briefly there again about people and how important that side of things is and right at the beginning of our conversation today you spoke about the policies that you incorporated when you started your business about making the environment for people a nice place to work somewhere they want to come back in a good environment and you said when did you start this 2009 yeah company right so that was well before as fashion I mean in poker you probably see now companies like you know Apple and Amazon trying to make it more fun with benefits I mean everyone wants to be an Apple employee right because you get slides at work and you get all these benefits and etc but I'd love to hear more about what you were doing at your company and how you made or how you would tell other companies now to make it a better environment I mean there's a reason why you're one of the top voices on LinkedIn because you spoke about these policies very early before it was fashionable so what what are you doing it's very important to have rituals in a company because of course you can say oh you're a nice company you're gonna make a book put the beautiful words in the wall but you need to have rituals in which everyone's gonna be feeling care by each other so in Gaia we have many many rituals for instance we try to understand each person as a person a different person what is your problems in your life how can we as a company help you to be better in your life as a whole what is your dreams we try to understand the dreams of each employee and it's wonderful our record is 15,000 applicants for one job in Gaia it's crazy it's crazy why because the people want to be happy and it's so simple it's so obvious that everyone want to be happy and if you can have an environmental of happiness everyone is gonna feel safe the psychology of safety is very important for everyone once someone makes a mistake this person feels comfortable in sharing the mistake with others or is gonna hide it it's very important because if this person hides the mistake we can have a huge problem in the company but in otherwise if this person is safe to share with others we can fix the problem very soon and I say that environmental of work is extremely important for the happiness and just not say have a game a football game or something we need to have an environmental and how you treat each other the caring with each other is extremely relevant for well-being in Brazil one third of the employees have any kind of mental disorder the levels of anxiety depression burnout is huge so of course it's wrong it doesn't need to be this like this doesn't make any sense to have a company that makes profit and make the the life of his employees worse what's the reason for this okay we have a huge profit but we have many people that are suffering oh come on we can have a company of course that is financial feasible that makes money but of course make the people I have one one objective one goal is when someone goes to Gaia and works for months years decade when this person leaves the company I want this person is gonna be a better person in terms of financial health happiness conscious understanding of the system well it's wonderful because we're gonna put a positive mark in this person not a negative mark that's really powerful and for those that may be outside of your company like me and Gabriel and watching no private trade or private investor how can we help on outside how can we do our part as someone that just privately invest I think we need to make something in UK in Europe to bring these ideas to inspire other companies to look at the world in a different way to look at the world in a way in which we can make the world better and understanding that money is very important but it's just one aspect of the life we cannot forget the money it's not okay I'm gonna live without any money no of course we need to make money it's when I have a good life but when I have more thing that just money and how can and you guys that are influencers how can we inspire other companies inspire brokers to see the world in a different way and then I'm sure we can change the world we can make the world the life of everyone better in Africa in South America in Asia in Europe in the US I think that is such a powerful place for us to end today hopefully someone like you said all of us individually can make a difference hopefully someone listening everyone sitting there watching is thinking to themselves what can I individually do it's not for the other person watching it's actually for the other people watching it's not for the other people on themselves I'm so I'm really hoping that you have through your words changed I mean I know that you've changed me in Poku but again to everyone listening today I hope you've done that as well for them so thank you for coming on today and sharing oh thank you for having me I'm very happy to be here you are very nice we try what a wonderful way to end the first episode for the year of 2024 that was great you know the passionate Jao and then contrasting with Patrick and he's straight to the point the best you know it's all about the discipline and actions you know what would you say you took away from Jao and how you can apply that to your life well I've just got to find a passion like he does right I mean have you ever had I've never been more inspired than 2024 then that interview right there either way that he was so optimistic about what so people are pessimistic about right the climate and just the fact that every individual can make a difference it's not just for you know blame it on the government blame it on the big companies like no you yourself can do something through impact investing I'm actually thinking like this afternoon I'm going to go and have a little look into it because I've got me feeling a little bit guilty but that was just all round incredible kind of way to kick off 2024 it was the energy we needed in the room for sure and what about you and Patrick yeah nah again it was great to learn that when it comes to trading right you need to look at it in terms of data sets you need to look at it from one trade it's not the same as another and you should have an emotional attachment to the money because I feel like it's right I mean when I started trading it was for the emotional it was for the lack of money which I wanted more but when you come to that mindset to trading and you attach it as every trade oh I made it extra thousand extra 200 it ruins it because when you do lose then you're then impacting even more and that affects your day and whatnot but whereas he's got to a point where he built a resilience where he can lose he can go again and again because he has that data and he's also got the confidence to go forward and honestly I love this job it's just so fun like I mean a little bit selfish to you but sometimes I just forget there are people listening and watching to us and I'm just sat there like I'm learning so I mean even you with your trading and all that kind of stuff but like by the sounds of it you'll just be getting better and better every single time just stealing the information from these guys that are just letting it flow right it's great to also network as well because in what situation would I ever be able to get to meet these people so again having one of techno's market strategists it's great to have them when you're sad and you know 100% so I always said what a great episode to start of 2024 Sony out from here eh? So then who can I learn from in the next episode? We we've got we've got listeners yeah who can we learn from in the next show well really interestingly we're going to have Nick Leeson on now that name might not ring about to everyone but he is an infamous trader I'm fairly certain that he was responsible for one of the biggest financial crashes slash crises in the 20th century so we'll leave it there there's also a movie about him if you're interested you can do a little bit googling a bit of research if you're a t-show listener prior to the next episode the rogue trader it's going to be fun come away and as we see you next time on the t-show where it's time to trade thoughts