 Good afternoon. First, sorry about this delay. I hope it was not too inconvenient for you. Thank you very much to be with us again this year. This is, we are close to the second year of this war. And I would like to ask you the first question. How do you assess either Ukrainian counter-offensive? It is usually, as you know, not considered to be a great success. It is not a defeat either, but it is not a great success. I think it's important to have your assessment of the situation. Well, Ukraine's great successes on the battlefield throughout the summer and autumn of 2022 raised expectations that every battle we will be fighting will be producing as impressive results as the counter-offensive in the east of Ukraine last year when we liberated Kharkiv region in an undoubtedly impressive and striking counter-offensive. Now, this counter-offensive is not as impressive as the previous one. And of course, expectations, people feel disappointed about it. But everything that has been achieved by our soldiers in this counter-offensive is an act of heroism. Because I cannot imagine another army in the world that would be able to break through the first lines of Russia, of the defences Russia built in the south of Ukraine. This is very much, very similar to the Second World War count operation of Allied operation on the western front. There was the famous Siegfried line built by Germany, Russia built very similar defensive lines. So it's not easy, but we still made good progress in the south. We are approaching the city of Bakhmut in the east, and we have to understand one thing. This is a war, and the war is not just one battle in a history book. It's a sequence of battles. And we should not allow anyone to manipulate, to speculate that if one counter-offensive is less impressive than the other, then things are going in the wrong direction. No, they are not. We are still fighting and we are still liberating our territory from Russian occupying forces. You mentioned the Second World War. Doesn't it look more like the First World War? This is the perception. I know this debate and it's interesting because those who want to emphasize the point of the stalemate and certain impasse on the battlefield, they refer to the First World War and they compare current situation with the First World War. Those who want to emphasize temporary difficulties in liberating territories, and I belong to that camp very openly, they emphasize the experience of the Second World War. So I think it's rather more an intellectual debate and the point sides are trying to make, because if I recall some of the Allied operations in North of France, in the Netherlands, like the famous Market Garden operation, which was considered to be the counter-offensive to end the Second World War and defeat Nazi Germany, it did not deliver. It was a failure, but still it was an important part of the overall fight against Nazi Germany and in the end Allied forces prevailed over Nazis. I really think it's part of the I mean this first Second World War comparison depends on the point, on a broader point you are trying to make about this war. That's extremely interesting, but would you say the same about the discussion, the question whether it will be a very long war or not? Would you say that those who forecast that it will be a long perhaps a very long war, do you say that they are just following behind Russian propaganda? Well I think that there is no room for deadlines when it comes to the fight for territorial integrity and sovereignty of any country and no one is, you know, if you are attacked on the street and you are not setting yours and you clearly see that the attacker is trying, has the intention of killing you, you are not telling to yourself I'm going to fight for five minutes but if I see that I'm failing that I cannot beat him off, I will simply give up, right? This is simply not how we, neither people, persons nor states think. So I want peace, Ukraine wants peace more than anyone else in the world but not at the cost of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. And just over the last night Ukraine was attacked with I think 36 Russian drones and missiles. They are undertaking offensive operations in the east of Ukraine and this is not how you behave when you want peace. This is not how you behave when you want aggression, when you want to stop the war. So to be honest with you, we are not making the timeline calculation. We are focused on sorting out problems, mobilizing support, ramping up production of weapons, further increasing resilience of our economy. We will fight as long as it takes for Ukraine to win because if Ukraine doesn't win there will be no lasting peace. I'm in Berlin now and I was reminded famous words by Helmut Kohl who once said the end of war does not necessarily mean peace. And this is something that people should always remember while considering different options about the end of the war in Ukraine. We need the end of the war that will bring peace and not another war, another aggression by Russia. And this is why the basis of this peace should be the peace formula proposed by Ukraine based on international law and UN Charter. But would you say that the willingness of the armed forces in Ukraine and the willingness of the people and those who are behind the front, would you say that their determination to continue to fight is as strong as it was a few months ago? Well, army is part of the society and so am I. This war will continue as long as the people of Ukraine are ready to endure all kinds of hardships related to the war. And when I look at the most recent polls taken, conducted I think in October and September and October this year, I recall that 73% of Ukrainians said that they categorically reject any kind of territorial concessions Ukraine should make in this war. And more than 50%, 50 something, I think 56 or 58% of Ukrainians said that they are ready to endure hardships as long as it takes for Ukraine. So these are the numbers, this is what people say and we are a democracy, you can find different opinions and it's true that it's difficult to fight this war. But the vast majority of Ukrainians believe in victory and they believe that we are on the right course and therefore we keep fighting. Of course you understand that all the questions I am asking are the questions that everybody is asking in France, in Europe, in the US and everywhere. This is why I put these questions. So one of them is that normally presidential elections are scheduled next year in Ukraine and what can you say about these elections? Will they take place or not? Is it still a question to be debated? I was thinking of when the Turks had this terrible earthquake a few months ago, the question was will the elections take place in Turkey or not? It's not an earthquake, it's worse than an earthquake, it's a war. So what can we say about that? We are a democracy, we went through many tests, sometimes it seems that some friends are trying to turn Ukraine into the global laboratory of democratic tests and I think there's no other country in the world that would be even considering holding elections against the background of such large-scale invasion but we are not closing this page. The president of Ukraine is considering and weighing different pros and cons but it's not because he is unwilling to hold elections, it's because holding these elections under current circumstances will require an unprecedented effort and will require to address unprecedented challenges and I can name a few of them. As foreign minister I will be in charge of Ukrainians voting abroad. Now if we estimate that between five and eight millions Ukrainians are currently residing in foreign countries with some countries, some countries host like one from one to two million Ukrainians, it simply means that the whole country where they reside will have to be covered with polling stations and many countries simply do not allow holding foreign elections outside of the diplomatic missions of a country that is holding elections. How do I address this challenge? If I go back to Ukraine, how to conduct, how to ensure that polling stations will not become perfect targets for Russian missiles and drones? Because people will go to vote, everyone will know where polling station is. How will soldiers in the trenches vote? I do not mean the choice they're going to make, I mean technically. And a very important point, how will people in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine vote? So these are the challenges that need to be addressed, but I'm not saying no to the idea of actually saying that this is something that needs to be addressed. And second, that we are democracy and we want to develop further develop as a strong democratic country, but we also ask to understand the difficulties, enormous difficulties that the country is facing at this point. So it's not only in Ukraine that major elections are supposed to take place next year. The most important country for the world, but there is certainly the US. So are you worried about the prospects of the presidential elections in the US? The Republicans in particular seem to be more and more divided on the issue of supporting Ukraine. Even in the democratic party, it's not totally clear. So could you tell us a little bit how you, what is your assessment of the, if I may say so, the American risk? Well, to be honest, the only thing I really worry about is the health of my children, of my parents, and everything else is just part of the job. After everything that has happened to Ukraine, I really don't worry about anything. If every time we face a greater challenge than the one that we faced yesterday, we just have to double or triple our efforts to overcome it. We are a year ahead of the US elections. And frankly, speaking, I understand the dynamics of the electoral campaign and the closer we get to the elections, the more tense the debate will be. That's clear. And we understand that Ukraine will be one of the issues at the center of the debate. But frankly, I think we will cross the bridge when we come to it. So at this point, we are focused on another issue, which is the decision by the Congress that need to be taken on allocating sufficient resources to support Ukraine throughout 2024. So this is something that we are working on. I think starting early next year, we will be getting more focused on handling the right positioning of Ukraine in light of the internal debate in the United States. The world is full of risks. But if you want to win, if you want to succeed, you have to accept it as a fact. And what you should not allow yourself to do is to be afraid of any kind of risks. That's obviously a very good answer. What about the Europeans? In December, the EU leaders are supposed to decide whether to open negotiations, access negotiations to the EU with Kiev. But we have observed in the last few months events that many of us would not have anticipated in Europe. The Poland incident about Korn, but they say that it was related to the election process. Now the results of the elections in Poland, of course, are reconferting. But there are some difficulties in Hungary. The result of the elections in Slovakia were also probably disappointed. So do you think that the EU, the Europeans, are a reliable partner for Ukraine? Yes, because we are all Europeans and the EU realizes that its security and prosperity depends on what is happening in Ukraine. And on the outcome of the war in Ukraine and on the future membership of Ukraine in the EU. Of course, we all feel tempted to judge books by their covers. And political politics, the statements, the headlines that we see in the papers coming from different political forces, they exterior a lot of emotional discussions and emotional reactions. But we have to judge these countries by the decisions they make. And as long as we see the decisions related to Ukraine's accession to the EU decisions related to the continuation of macro financial support of Ukraine, decisions related to the provision of military support and imposing of sanctions against Russia, are taken, everything else is politics. And we can find the way to steer through these debates and political agendas that countries are having. Therefore, and we will have a couple of these decisions by the end of the year to be adopted by the European Union. And we will see how countries, how some members will handle these situations. As of now, we are working very diligently, carefully and with full respect to domestic political situations in some European countries to make these decisions happen. And I think more broadly speaking, the role of the European Union in supporting Ukraine in this war is underestimated. And we should speak more about the unprecedented decisions that the European Union has made since last February to defend Europe. Because by helping Ukraine, EU helps to defend whole Europe. And we all should be more outspoken about that. Of course, this issue is related to the NATO issue. Is it from your viewpoint, is it conceivable that Ukraine becomes a member of NATO while the war is still going on? Well, NATO membership cannot stop this war. But NATO membership for Ukraine will prevent further wars. So in this sense, there is no alternative to Ukraine's membership in NATO. The message that was sent to the world and to Ukraine at the NATO-Villainer Summit was very clear. Ukraine will become a member of NATO when security conditions allow. So a country in an active phase of an armed conflict, of course, cannot be integrated into NATO. But as long as NATO is keeping the door open, as long as we see that NATO is not just keeping the door open, but also makes specific effort to increase interoperability and bring Ukraine closer, that will be a process moving in the right direction. Now, so far we have spoken as if our meeting had taken place before the 7th of October. But on the 7th of October, something happened which maybe changed the whole game. Since the Hamas aggression in Israel on the 7th of October, in the West in particular, one hardly speaks of what is going on in Ukraine as if the war had disappeared from the front pages of the newspapers. So how about your assessment of the impact of the Middle East war which has started and which also probably will be quite long. What is your assessment of its consequences on the Ukraine war? Well, we did disappear from the front pages, but we did not disappear from the raiders of world politics. And this is pretty clear to me because we are in constant communication with our partners in the United States and in Europe and other parts of the world. So these are two different areas and this has to be taken into account. I'm sorry to say it, but the longer the war in the Middle East lasts, the less front pages it will occupy as well because this is the law of the world. People get used to it, people get used to wars, to disasters. We even got them as humanity. So what brings you back to the front page is something big, something that runs out, that goes beyond people's routine perception of the conflict. For example, every day, all every day, Ukraine is being attacked massively with Russian drones and missiles. The fact that this massive destruction and killing is not making to the front pages of the world is not our problem. It's the problem of readers and viewers who are not interested in the topic anymore, but the war continues and we are fighting it. But if you want to get back to the front page, you have to secure a big victory or you have to suffer a big loss. Then you make it back. Of course, we are working hard today to return to the front pages with a big victory. Speaking about trends, of course, if the conflict in, we currently do not see any decrease in the support that we are receiving from partners because of the war in Middle East, but the challenge, of course, there will be a different challenge if the conflict in the Middle East spills over and takes it to the next level of violence and involvement of other players. And this is the risk that needs to be permanently kept in mind while assessing the dynamics of the process. But the challenge goes beyond that. It's also related to the so-called Global South. And with the new war in the Middle East, the hostility to use that word of the Global South against the West involves both Ukraine and Israel. So that might have, nobody knows exactly, but it might have a serious impact over the years. In the world, how do you see this issue? Well, I see that countries who spent many months seeking arguments to explain why they are not supporting openly Ukraine in its fight against the Russian aggression are the loudest today in accusing the West of double standards in the treatment of Middle East, of the war in the Middle East and Ukraine. Because finally, they tried to make the point, but finally they got, they believe they found an excuse to explain why they behaved one way and not another towards Ukraine. I don't think, I don't have the impression that the Global South is lost. We recently held a meeting of the peace formula, proposed a coordination meeting of the countries who were taking part in the peace formula proposed by President Zelensky. It was held in Malta. And the last, the previous time we held the meeting in Saudi Arabia two months ago, we had 44 participants. This time in Malta against the raging war in the Middle East, we had 66. And we see that many of the newcomers are coming from beyond the West. We had Arab countries, we had African countries, we had South American countries. And third, of course, there will always be speculations about, I think the conversation about double standards is the most famous discussion in World Affairs and in diplomacy. So there will always be those who will try to reinforce this thing and accuse Ukraine of the West of some of, of mistreating the Middle East conflict. And Russia will be ease, ease and will be reinforcing these messages because it perfectly fits their narrative. But I think the picture is far more nuanced than just black and white, you know, you lost, you gained. It's far more nuanced and it's not as critical and the situation is not as critical as it may seem. Well, I hope that in a year from now we will have a third meeting of this kind with you and perhaps even before if you have a chance to go to Paris, I would be extremely honored to welcome you at E3. But my last question will be, is there from your viewpoint any chance to have some kind of negotiations with Russia starting before we meet next time? You know, people who are asking this question, and I know that you were just, as you mentioned before, you were asking me this question because this is floating in, in the air in, in some places in the world. But I encourage everyone who is talking about negotiations to learn history. And you don't have to go too deep into history books. It's a very recent history. In between 2014, when Russia illegally annexed Crimea, and February 2022, when Russia launched its large-scale invasion against Ukraine, there were about 200 rounds of negotiations between Ukraine and Russia, mediated by Germany and France, as part, as participants of the Normandy format, supported by the United States in one way or another, almost 200 rounds. 26 fires were officially announced in the same period of time, and all of them were violated by Russia. So the question to everyone entertaining the idea of how nice it would be to have negotiations should ask, should first ask himself or herself, what makes me believe that Russia changed for the good since then? That this Russia can be trusted more than the one that's treacherously launched of the war instead of seeking diplomatic solution, that the country that violated all ceasefires it signed up for. And once you answer this question in an honest way, there will be no questions about when will negotiations begin. And second, no one wants peace more than us, but we don't need a peace that will lead to another war. We need a peace that will be lasting. And when I see a daily morning report about the situation on the front line, I don't see the slightest indication that Russia is interested in peace, that Russia is seeking solutions. They're sending more weapons to more soldiers, more missiles, more drones. They want to fight. And sometimes we have to accept this is the reality. Sometimes there are moments in history when you have to defeat the evil on the battlefield before sitting down at the table and signing papers. This is the reality. And this is what Ukraine is doing. And instead of crying out for negotiations, I want everyone to focus on a different question. How can I help Ukraine to win on the battlefield and to put Ukraine in the best position to negotiate and to put an end to this war? When you change these optics, when you start asking yourself realistic questions, then this war will end rather sooner than later. Otherwise, it's just an empty empty. There is this word in Germany, Lumpen piece or something, like misconception of peace or hypocritical understanding of what real peace is. So let's work towards real peace and not hypocritical piece that will lead to another war. Well, Mr. Minister, thank you very much. Time is up. I would like to thank you again for everything you told us. You know that all of us in Europe and beyond admire the extraordinary resistance of your people and the way Ukraine fights to become a long-lasting nation. So again, we admire you and I wish you personally and your country all the best. And thank you to have taken a moment of your precious time for this discussion with us. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you for this conversation.