 I'm Jay Fiedel, this is Community Matters at nine o'clock on a given Thursday. And we have Annalisa Burgos with us. She's a TV journalist broadcast a person. And she's gonna tell us about a life in TV journalism. Welcome to the show, Annalisa. Hey, thanks, Jay. It's good to be with you. Sorry for the technical issues earlier, but I think I'm good now. So that's the world we live in, right? Then I can ask you any question now. That's the thing. So the first question is, I mean, they're all out there trying to figure out how to become a TV broadcaster. How do they become a TV broadcaster? Where do you sign up for that? Well, first of all, my big question to everyone out there is why would you want to be a TV broadcaster? I mean, there is no money in this business. I mean, there's only a very few people that actually reach that level where you can actually make a decent living out of this business. I rely heavily on having a second income from a partner. But if you are a single person living in a major city, this is a really difficult job to be in. But in honest seriousness, you really have to be that type of person that is really nosy, really curious, really kind of doesn't care what other people think about boundaries. It really is a calling. You are not going to make money off of this business, especially in broadcasting. And the industry itself has changed. I mean, we could talk about that on a different type of show. But just going back to where I started from, I come from very humble beginnings. I'm not from lower middle class. And I wouldn't say that it was one of those things my parents wanted for me. It was more like, oh, you have to make money. You have to be a lawyer. You have to be speaking of law. You have to go into a business that makes money. They knew they knew you could. They knew they knew you were smart. They knew you could do anything, right? That's true. Just like every immigrant family who comes from, because my parents are from the Philippines. And when they immigrated to the United States, as so many immigrants do, you come wanting the best for your children. You don't want them to come from the hardships that they came from. So education is such a huge part of that American dream, especially when you don't have wealth. And again, you start from the beginning. I went, my mom busted her butt to put me through private schools and put me through, just have the best education available to us at the time. And so that's really how it started. And funny enough. Where'd you go to private school? Oh, I actually, I'm from LA. So I went to this school, Immaculate Heart High School, Immaculate Heart. We were the pandas and you may know we have some famous alumni, Megan Markle, Tyra Banks. That's my school. Okay. Do you remember the school song? And can you sing a few bars of the school song? Oh, wait, is it raise on high your standard? That's enough. Yeah. I didn't know it was a karaoke time, Jay. That's a different tone. Also, invite me to that one. I'll be really good at that one. But I totally digressed, didn't I? Let's get back on track. So I'm talking about being a TV broadcaster. So basically, if you have this calling and this interest, you just do what you can to get in there. I'm a good writer. Ironically enough, I didn't start in TV. I started in newspapers. I was a newspaper reporter. So I started actually, if you want to go way back, I used to be a copy editor, which is a very, very introverted type of job. And I think I realized I was good at writing. I was good at editing. I was good at just formatting a lot of copy, bad copy. But what ended up happening is I realized I was too much of an extrovert to be in that job. And a few of my mentors had told me that you should consider TV because you have a personality for TV. And you have a knack for getting people to talk and a knack for telling stories that most people can't find. And so that's kind of how I got into the business. I went, I'm in LA, like I said, I worked at the Orange County Register. Then I was at the Daily Bruin first. That's where I got my chops. Shout out to my former editor, Elena Jarvis. Hey, thank you for molding my young mind. I worked in Dallas at the Dallas Morning News. And then I decided, after everyone kept telling me, your personality is very much a TV personality. You should try to study and bring that to TV journalism. And I said, okay. And I applied to one graduate school, one graduate school alone, and that was Columbia University because that is the only school I would ever go. I don't care about you Northwesterners or Columbia, Missouri, or all the other graduate schools there. And I joked with you, Jay. It's like, I'm still paying for that education. But it's still benefiting you. Digression for the folks out there is that Columbia Journalism School is like the best in the country. But that's just me talking. Well, they award the Pulitzer Prizes. So I mean, you know. Okay, fair enough. So that helped you? Definitely. I mean, and I moved to New York because that's where the hub of all media is. And I felt like in order for me to really break into the business in a big way, I had to move there. And I did that by going to graduate school. I met some great people, mentors, and I stayed. I was, I covered some amazing stories in New York. I ended up being a business reporter, which I never thought I would because I was always a community reporter. You know, cops, crime, local news, local stuff. And when I went to New York, I became a financial person and I covered everything. I mean, it was such an interesting time. This was back in 2003. And there was a huge bubble forming, as you may remember, if you, from that era. Rich burst. Well, yeah. Well, it was funny because it was the dot com, right? The dot com. Oh, sure, yeah. Yeah, that bubble burst. But then it came back in a very strong way because then we have social media. I mean, things like Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, none of that existed at the time when I was a journalist. So, I mean, it's so weird now to see the young people coming through and it's just native to them because it's so different. I mean, I interviewed, one of my really fun interviews was with a very young Mark Zuckerberg. And he had just, I remember, because I used to work for Forbes, one of the companies I worked for was Forbes. So we started this video network, which was pre-YouTube. So they had their own proprietary video network. I mean, it's exactly kind of like the model you have, right? You create original videos, interviews, and you post them. And we were distributing it to like, at the time, MSN, AOL, you know, Yahoo, all of these kind of aggregating, aggregated sites. And I covered stocks. I used to do stock market updates and I interviewed CEOs. And so one of them- At some point you got into international news too, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, they all intersect, right? When it comes to finance, the markets are not borders. They're not, you know, there's no borders there. Well, two questions come out of that for me, okay? Yeah. Number one is, okay, so I say to myself, I want to become a finance broadcaster. So what do you do? Go to finance 101 or make that finance broadcasting 101. You get a mentor and tell you what to do. You read a book, an article, a little essay, a tutorial on YouTube. How do you do that? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know. Especially if you're not an expert in it, right? I mean, the type of business this is, is like you have to be an expert very quickly. You don't have time to be getting an MBA. I mean, there are people that will go back to school and really specialize in certain subjects to be a finance journalist. But I just happened, I just stumbled upon it again, because New York is finance mecca and there was at the time this kind of desire and interest in explaining financial news, especially with all the, you know, the dot-com, the all the startups happening, all real estate. I mean, I was there when Lehman Brothers collapsed. I mean, these are things that, you know- You didn't have anything to do with that, did you? Oh no, definitely not. I mean, you know, Martha Stewart knew stuff. I mean, the funny thing is I knew stuff also, but I didn't capitalize the way she did, but- What is it? It's a different life. It's a different mindset, isn't it? To become a professional TV broadcasted journalist person. And I really, I conflate the two of his journalism and broadcast journalism is pretty much the same. But it's a different life. How is it different when you walk down the street? Let's say you're walking down Broadway, for example. You see the world differently. How is it different? You nowadays or back then or what do you mean? Or both. Both? I mean, you're constantly, I don't know if you're like this as well, but you just constantly observe and question and you have to look at the world in kind of a skeptical lens. I mean, I'm a positive person generally, so I like to kind of maintain some positivity. But at the very crux of it, you have to just remember that there are agendas. There are, there's things that people do with motive, with intention. And things aren't as random as you would think. So when I'm around, I'm walking around, I'm looking and talking to people, I'm always constantly thinking in my head, what's the end game here? What's happening here? And I know it's kind of a weird way to live because you're always kind of thinking two or three steps ahead, but that's just the way. No, it's no weirder than going to law school and practicing law, let me assure you. I wouldn't do my other job. I'm sure you mentioned that, yeah. So okay, so that's the kind of critical thinking business. But the problem is, and we talked about before the show, is how do you maintain an impartial approach to the world and life? Or putting it this way, do you need to do that? Is it part of the job, so to speak? Keep your mind in the middle somehow. You know, honestly, I think so. And the unfortunate thing I've started to, well, it's happened for a few years now, but more and more media has become just biased. It's hard to find balanced reporting unless you go to certain companies or outlets that are known for being in the middle range. And I'm a purist, so I believe that reporters and journalists have to be objective. And even if we don't agree with what other side that we're interviewing or trying to cover, we have to do it justice, you know, in order to let people be informed and give them both sides. I'm really that type of person where that's our role, a journalist's role in society is to educate and inform. That's become much more difficult in these years. I mean, because there were some people that take a position that's absolutely looty to us. And if you maintain, you know, the need, and the ethical need to represent all sides, you wind up representing or at least giving credit to a side that's loony to us. But this makes it complicated for a journalist. How do you handle that? You have a thick skin. I mean, that's really what it is. I've learned over the years not to take things personally. I mean, I've been trolled, I've been criticized. You know, nowadays people are much more critical of the media than before. I mean, social media was a big part of that. But I really believe that the benefit of journalism is the vetting process. There are multiple layers that are looking at what you are saying and what you are covering. And that's kind of how we hold ourselves accountable. Social media doesn't hold anyone accountable. You're relying on someone's personal experiences or, you know, your media literacy, which many people don't have. Well, a lot of people don't understand how to decipher a fact and opinion nowadays, especially the young people. I mean, I'm teaching at UH now. So just a little bit of background. I used to work at KITV and I left and I'm teaching now part-time one of the reporting classes. And when I talk to these students, these are college students, young journalists, you know, we have this discussion about how do you remain objective? And a lot of them, they just refuse to talk to the other side. They say, you know, that is, why would we give them a voice? They don't, you know, they are completely wrong. You know, all these, you know, reasonings that they give when they're talking to people that have, as you say, ridiculous views. But, you know, at the bottom, I mean, at the end of it, it's about giving voice. That's really how I see my job. It's like, you're supposed to give voice to people that don't have it. You know, it's about questioning, raising the bar of conversation. And while you don't exaggerate it and you don't celebrate it, I think it's important to at least include it, you know, in a very kind of neutral way. It's hard. Don't get me wrong. Sometimes these days, you know, you see MSNBC or CNN, I'm sorry, I don't watch Fox News. No, I used to watch Fox News and I had a rule. I would watch it until the first lie. And at the first lie, you know, I would turn it off and go somewhere else. Usually I never got to watch it for more than 10 seconds. So that, you know, that was my way of, you know, dealing with that issue. But that's a problem because, you know, we live in a world of PR, social media, people coming up with opinions that are ridiculous. And, you know, the journalist has to be able to, or the producer, the news producer, has to be able to discern what's appropriate for public consumption and what's not. I mean, you could, like Fox News, publish lies every day. And at the end of the day, you're not doing much for the country. As a matter of fact, you're damaging the country. So this gets to the question of the duty of the TV broadcaster, or for that matter, the TV news producer director person who establishes what stories are on the top, what stories are on the bottom. But Jay, I would argue that those outlets, I wouldn't say those people are journalists because I think they're more commentators, or maybe they're more... Opinion. Opinion, you know, I understand what you're saying, but you're talking about outlets that are, their business is to take a side and then argue it or promote it. Well, their business to sell soap is what it is. Yeah, I think journalists are Reuters, AP, The Associated Press, you know, our local news is that as well. That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about fundamental news outlets that their business is to cover news, traditional news and not wax poetic and fill airtime. And I can say that because I used to be a cable anchor as well. And I got to give my share of opinions on lots of things. So I mean, that's just a different type of business. So just... As a cable anchor, as a newscaster who's reading off a prompter, I love the way that works, it's not easy. All the folks out there should understand that reading off a prompter is not easy. You need years of experience to do it well. Thank you, Jay. Sorry, I said that. I think it's so easy. No, don't be sorry. I mean, they think it's like this easy thing, but I've seen some really bad anchors. As a matter of fact, what people don't know is that two of us are actually reading off prompters now. Oh, no, we are not. This is totally off the cuff and I love it. So the problem is as somebody who is out there in front of the camera, you're not making the selection. So I noticed I was watching for this. Last night, we had this invasion into Ukraine. So the question is in the morning, what are they talking about? Were they talking about in the print press? Were they talking about television and for that matter, social media? And the answer is, yes, it's an important story, but it does not fill the airwaves. And so wait a minute, you know, in a larger picture, you know, this story about Ukraine and the invasion and the end of the liberal order in the world, I see it that way, that's really an important story that could affect us. And yet, I don't think a lot of media pick up on the priorities. They have their own priorities and it really doesn't matter in a world where news changes by the minute. What do you think? Are you talking about local media? Cause I've been hearing it all over the media that I'm reading. Okay, good. I like to hear that, it's good. Yeah, I heard it on an HPR this morning. I heard it on, you know, I read it all over my feed. So I don't know where you're pointing to. Are you talking about local media or like where they're not covering it as in depth as? Well, last night every channel had it live, you know, from, from Kiev and other cities in Ukraine. And that was good. That was reminiscent of other military invasions and conflagrations that we've seen in our lifetimes. But I want to- I mean, I covered the South China Sea debacle. So I mean the China building all of those military installations right next to the Philippines. So, I mean, for years and years. So again, these are stories that as an international news anchor, I find important and I find relevant to us. It's just a matter of translating it to the local audience. So I agree with you. Like when I work at a local station, the priority is not international coverage. It is more local community coverage. But there are ways to localize things, as you know. You know, when we covered the Afghanistan pullout of the troops there, we had several people that actually were involved, you know, whether they were military people that served there or they were diplomats who helped set up the embassy out there in Kabul. So, I mean, there's a lot of ways we can localize it and make it relevant to people. It's just a matter of putting that investment and the interest. And honestly, between you and I, I don't know if the younger generations of journalists are being taught to appreciate international news because as you know, budgets for international news coverage is very low. So I got to be a foreign correspondent for a little bit, but it was because I moved over there of my own accord. And like I told you, the benefit of having a partner who can supplement your income and you're not living off of, you know, Robin. Is that your preference, Annalisa? Is it your preference to cover international things? Because they got a lot of work for you right now in Eastern Europe. Oh, I would love to. But I don't think, you know, like that one journalist that speaks six languages and that went viral and covered the Ukraine crisis. Yeah, I mean, I would love to, I mean, I obviously moved to countries where they have English language channels, which is, and you know, like in the Philippines, I can speak Tagalog, but it's very bad Tagalog. I would never broadcast in Tagalog, but I can do interviews enough to get the information from people. So I was able to work at a network there and then in Singapore, because Singapore has an English language channel too, Channel News Asia. So I had a fortunate opportunity to work out of there and cover big news. That was a big South China Sea. The, that's when it first started. Also, I think Crimea, also lots of, lots of interesting stuff. You gotta be nimble to do that though. In fact, you have to be nimble to be a TV broadcaster. I mean, your career has gone from city to city and station to station for years and years. I mean, you know, you don't look that old to me. I mean, maybe you started when you were 11, but. Thanks Jay. It's that Asian, it's that Asian gene. It must be, it must be. I got to get some of that. You look good for your age too. I have to say that. I'm not telling you my age, Annalisa. Oh, I looked you up. I did my homework. Okay, so you move around like that. I mean, is it good to move around like that? In some businesses, it's really good because every time you move, you have the benefit of a bigger CV behind you, you know, and the opportunity to ask for more money when you move. And so your career, you know, moving from hither to yon sounds like it's the normal TV broadcasts career everywhere. Am I right? Yeah. And that's what I tell people all the time. If this is the field you want to be in, it's you have to keep moving. You can't stay. I mean, there are a few, there are a few exceptions. Joe Morquem's up to mind, right? I mean, there are people that can actually stay in a market for a really long time and move up and be successful. And that's fine. But for the most part, a lot of people will move to different cities because the opportunities are in different places, you know, and then you have to, you know, make money. You have to find what's right for your own personal goals. And that's what the TV stations want to do. They want to see fresh face all the time, right? They keep on moving. I don't think so. Tell me. Well, I don't know. Anchors are your community faces, right? So in my experience, it's a little bit harder to be an anchor in cities. Like you kind of have to have a following from wherever you're from. You have to kind of prove that you have this like wealth of knowledge and that you can jump into a city and a community and be part of it right away, you know? So that was the benefit of me coming to Hawaii is that, you know, while I've been here many times, I'm not actually from here, but I make it a point to really get to know the community so that people feel like I can represent them. And that's the same when I moved to Singapore and that's the same when I moved to the Philippines and that's the same when I moved to New York. It's like you have to be part of that community and kind of defer to that culture. That's it. That's it. No, that's, and I remember, you know, I was with Hawaii Public Radio for a decade or so and Michael Tinnerton, you know, was telling us that the best radio is when you, you know, can look out there and see your audience. You know, you know who they are. And my own way of handling that was with Mr. Potato Man. What I mean, what I mean by that. What is Potato Head? Or Potato Man? Yeah, Mr. Potato Head, right, right. You would design, just you have to have one listener or viewer that is, you know, your viewer who you are speaking to one person and you would design this person with Mr. Potato Head and he looked like this and he acted like this or she, whatever, okay? And you would speak to him and that was a connection. You kind of represented him. You asked questions on his behalf. You spoke to him in what you thought was language that he would understand. And, you know, it's a one on one but it's really one on hundreds of thousands or millions. By the way, we take questions here. We have a question. This is a very interesting question, Annalisa. I like this question. Are we live? Sorry, I didn't promote it. That's why. This is, yeah, next time. So this is a question that we haven't covered and you'll enjoy this question. Good for the questioner. I'm excited. Thank you to the questioner. Okay, what do you think are the most underreported stories in Hawaii? Ooh, that is a good question. You know, honestly, I feel like there is so much in our schools and we don't know. I mean, maybe it's just me, but I'm looking and trying to find interesting things that students are doing. And I would love to see more of that coverage. There's a lot of amazing things that teachers and students are doing on a very local front, innovating, trying to solve a lot of the problems that we have here in the islands. And I would love to have a series on that. I would also love to have a series on, you know, I know I've seen coverage here and there of things like this, but really deep dive into some of these local startups, you know, that are making waves in the world, you know? And I've always done that in every station I've worked at, at every network is trying to promote entrepreneurship and that feeling of inspiration and thinking outside of the box, you know? Like kind of like one of those types of stories where it's like, this is what we think the future is, but it's happening now and people are working on it. Sea change stories. Yes. Changes that nobody recognizes and there you have it. Yeah, like really looking ahead. And I would love to see more of, you know, climate type stories also, because we are so part of that, you know, that conversation. And I know I've seen some, but not enough. I feel like we could do more, especially on the TV side. You know, I know civil bead and other online publications do deep dives into big issues, but on the TV side, I think we could do more and especially for the, you know, because TV is really for the average person. Well, there are some TV producers that say, we don't need to cover this kind of exotic news. We need to cover the things. Well, news outside the mainstream news, you know, that people want to see, people want to see it. And I say, wait a minute, wait a minute. What's the test here? Do you want to give them news they should know about or you want to give them news that they want to know about? And the answer, you know, from a lot of producers is, we don't care what they should know about. We want to give them what they want to know about. And that sells. And I say, really, is that doing your duty as a journalist or producer to inform them and to give them the facts they need to be good citizens and, you know, train them in civics, which takes me to my last question for you. Well, my last area of question, leaving room. Okay, so you're teaching, okay? This is very important because you're teaching students who may never be journalists, never, never, ever, but you're opening their minds, you're showing them what happens to your, you know, your way of looking at things as you're walking down Broadway. And how do you impart that to them? This is not easy when they would not otherwise be inclined. They'd be inclined to, you know, flip to a football game. Instead, you're showing them something else. How do you make that impression? Teaching these students how to make that impression? Teaching your students that being a journalist or being a student journalist is a special experience. And they're different from ordinary people who, you know, they walk a little higher. They see you a little wider. How do you teach them that? I think people who end up deciding this young to go into journalism have this almost, like I said earlier, this calling. You know, they're not in it for money or fame or they shouldn't be. I mean, because like you said, they will definitely not go very far. I think the way to get them to really appreciate this business and, you know, just is to focus on it to read news, to consume news and look at things with a very critical eye because our business is broken. I mean, I think social media ruined it. I think it's harder for young people these days to focus on listening, the basic skills of listening, interviewing and really being humble. We are in an era where people are more focused on influencing rather than reporting. And I think that is such a shame. I mean, again, I'm generalizing, but these are the trends that I'm seeing. So when I talk to the students, I'm lucky to have a great group. They're diverse. They have interest in international news. We have good discussions in class about that. I think what we need to build and not just in journalism students, but all students, all youth in education, I think we need media literacy. And I think we need critical think, we need to work on that critical thinking. So many times they're just taught that whatever is put out there is, you know, correct or it's right when it's not from a legitimate source or from something that's verified and it's shared. Multiple, multiple times without actual vetting. Those skills are necessary and I don't think we're teaching that to our youth. I think that's one of the biggest things we should be doing to have a informed society with media. Because, you know, all the young people going into this business, they're gonna need those skills because they're the next generation of gatekeepers. I would like to say, remember that term? I don't know if you ever learned that, but media used to be gatekeepers, now the gates are open and we're just trying to close them back. There's a lot of noise out there, you know. Contended to confuse people, propaganda and PR and it's very hard to discern. Well, I think that's a very important thing. So it's, A, it's more important than a lot of other courses and it's probably actually, may I say this publicly, it does more good than going to law school. Yeah. Well, we can go into law if you don't like journalism. There's a lot of journalists who actually go back to law school because they realize that's where the money is. And there's, well, sometimes and there's a lot of lawyers that go into journalism. That is true. There's a connection there. That is true, I think. And it does help in the long term for your career if you have that legal degree, you know, you can really question things a lot more than if you didn't have one, I would say, you know. But like I said, when I talk out in the community, I just went and met some police officers at a coffee with a cop discussion the other day. And, you know, I asked them, I said, what do you think is wrong with media? And they said it's not balanced. You know, they're giving one side to most of the stories and there's not enough diversity in the voices. And, you know, I agree with that. And I think it's hard because, you know, if you're on deadline, you can be tempted to not do more, but we have to teach our youth to push, keep pushing. And I can't resist asking you this, Annalisa. Yeah. When the cop at the media cop program said, you know, that there weren't enough stories on some side, whatever side, what stories was he referring to? What was missing as far as that cop was concerned? No specific, I mean, no specific story that he pointed. He said he bunched it all as a broad, a few of them had said this, as a broad discussion that the stories are always from a very litigious point of view and not from a more holistic criminal justice point of view and how our legal system works in terms of laws and how criminals are put away. It's very must arrest. And then, you know, this person was let go again. You know, if there's... You learn something from that. Yeah, I feel like... Did they learn from you? It strikes me that they could learn a lot more from you than you, sorry. They do learn from you. Anyway, look, we're at the end of our time together. I have enjoyed this re-partee. It's really re-partee. And I wanted to ask you one more question and that is this, you know, and you don't have to answer this question. You can say no. Oh, it must be a bad one if you're saying that. You can whisper if you want. Or if you really wanna, you know, make an impression, you can sing your answer. I wouldn't mind that. Oh, okay. And I know you do better than the school song I'm an awful, awful singer. Okay, go ahead. What's your next gig, Annalisa? Oh, that's a secret. We'll have to, we'll have to fight. You'll have to tune in to find out. I mean, I'm always looking. Let's put it that way. But I'm always looking. So yeah, I mean, I'm here. I'm invested in the community. I'm talking, I continue to talk to people, get to know their stories. I never stop doing what I love. Whether I am looking for a new challenge or going to stay with my parenting and my, you know, part-time gigs, that's a, that's, you know, I have to keep a little secret. Okay. All right. So you don't have to whisper to sing it. I'll let you off the hook. You'll, you'll be the first to know. You'd have to invite me back. I'll break some news on your show. Yeah, okay. It's a whole set. You can run, but you, you can't hide. Annalisa Burgos. But you haven't seen the last of me. You're not getting rid of me yet. No, no, no. Not a chance. Thank you so much, Annalisa. Great to talk to you. Thanks, Jay. I appreciate your time. Thanks for inviting me. This was fun. Absolutely. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.