 Welcome everyone to this SDSN webinar climate change impacts on mining operations and mining territories. We're so honored to have you all with us today. Today's webinar is taking place in zoom because it's a webinar all of you are going to be muted with your cameras turned off. But please feel free to send us questions for our panelists by using either the chat function or the q&a feature at the bottom of the zoom window. Today's webinar will also be recorded and we'll share the recording with all of you shortly after the event. If for some reason you have to leave or you're dropped out, please just use the same login and sign on with us again. It's my pleasure to give the floor to Renato Simonelli, President of Geopark Quadrilateral for Riffero, which is a member of the SDSN and he's going to share some opening remarks to kick off today's webinar. Yeah, okay. Good afternoon to all you. It's a special regards for this global audience. It's very impressive how global is all be the moderator if there is a need in case of this this afternoon. Welcome to the webinar series that we call Visuals to SDG in mining territories. And I would like to introduce maybe the webinar in some keywords. In a way to make the starting wall more quick. The 17 SDGs that's one reference for the webinar, the mining operators, the territories, the big issues that will be targeting the next webinars and the big issue of today climbing change. Okay. So let's let's let's start. And I'll then introduce the first speaker. Dr. Paolo Tacho just a minute. Okay, Dr. Paolo Tacho is a Brazilian expert on the links between the Amazon and the climate change. He holds a PhD in environmental physics from the University of Sao Paulo, and has studied the effects of deforestation on the carbon and hydrological cycles for over 40 years. He has also worked at NASA, Lund University, Stockholm University and Harvard University. He's also a member of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the IPCC. So Paolo, it's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you very much for the introduction. So I have to share my screen so if you can cancel your sharing, I can share mine. Okay, I'm sorry. Okay. Okay, basically, my task here is to update you on the impacts on the latest new from IPCC on the impacts of climate change in our environment and our society. The central issue of climate change is that the global emissions of greenhouse gases have continued to rise. Even after the pandemic, even after 50 years that science alerted the society and the governments that we are going to a very unsustainable past in terms of climate change because of the growing greenhouse gas emissions. Right now, every year, we're emitting about the 60 gigatons of CO2 equivalent of greenhouse gases to the global atmosphere. And this, besides the Paris Agreement and all the international agreement, this is growing up to by two to 3% every year. The IPCC recommends that we should decrease the emissions by 7% every year from 2020 to 2050, reaching net zero in 2050 and sequester carbon in the second part of this century. It's a huge task for our society, but it have to be done. If we wanted to have a stable climate in the second part of this century. As a result of these emissions, the IPCC make forecast for how will be the equilibrium temperature in the second part of this century. Basically, if you follow the emissions like you are doing today with an increase of two 3% a year, we can reach a temperature of about 4.3 degrees Celsius in average for the whole globe. If you follow the Paris Agreement like you are following right now in a more or less loose way, we can reach 3.7 degrees of average heating. And if you follow very strictly the Paris Agreement, we will heat up the planet by 2.80 degrees Celsius. So as you can see, we are very far away from the target of the Paris Agreement of stabilizing the global temperature in between 1.2 and 2 degrees. So we have to reduce emissions deeply as quickly as possible as was announced by the synthesis report from the IPCC that was released the two days ago in Geneva. So basically, the message from the scientists becoming more and more and more clear. But what this means in terms of global average warming, what this means geographically because nobody lives in the whole planet. So basically, for instance, for a four degrees global warming, the increase in temperature in South America could be something going between five to 5.6 degrees in the Arctic region. I mean, Russia and the permafrost region and North Canada, this increase in temperature can be about 6.5 to 7 degrees. So basically, this is an increasing temperature that has not been seen over the last 100,000 years at least in our planet. So we do have a very major economic and social impact. But temperature is just one indication of climate change, one important ingredient is the change in precipitation. So what we see is that if you increase global temperature by four degrees, we will see that Latin America in particular Amazonian central parts of Brazil will be much drier than they have been over the last decades, as well as the Mediterranean, Europe, South Africa, and Central America. So these will have an important social consequences and one of them is the soil humidity that will change dramatically with increasing temperature and in the changes in the precipitation pattern. So basically, we will see that soil humidity that's critical for agriculture will affect a lot of the central Brazil region where most of the soybean and meat production happens in Brazil, but also will affect the Central United States as you can see all the Mediterranean area. So this will have a very important impact in terms of food production. Another important aspect of climate change is the increase in climate extremes. So we are observing that if one event was happening every 50 years before the industrial revolution, if we allow the climate to heat up by four degrees, this single event will happen 39 times more frequently than we have five times, will be five times more intense. We are already observing these events, these are not just for the future climate, actually you are observing that right now. And with the every increment of global warming, the IPCC report that was released just two days ago shows that the original change is becoming much more pronounced from 1.5 degrees, two degrees, three degrees or four degrees. So you can see that if you act very quickly reducing emissions in all sectors. Basically, we can avoid the catastrophic climate change and the action is with our society with the industry and with the governments to avoid the worst possible scenario. And this latest IPCC report also details in the land-based system as well as the ocean and coastal ecosystem that as we increase the target temperature from 1.5 to three or four degrees. Basically the risk grows up very, very quickly. And the number of people that could be exposed to dangerous climate change goes up to from 100 million to billions of people. So that's a scenario that certainly we have to avoid as much as possible. And then it's important also we think on the future generations, our kids, our grandkids, what will happen with them. Basically, you know, for a person that was born in 1980, basically we will see that in the next 20 or 30 years we will observe a very strong impact. But a child that is born in 2020, basically we will see very high climate change if we do not reduce the emission as quickly as possible. And climate is a conjuncture. It is an indicator of the social and economic issues. And one of the critical changes that our planet will see is the change in biodiversity. The risk of species losses, if you go from 1.5 to two degrees or three or four degrees, changes dramatically. And our society depends on the biodiversity for our own survival. Basically, climate change is not just climate is also a biodiversity crisis. And then to finish, there are many multiple opportunities to reduce emissions with the solar energy with the wind energy, reducing the forestation that's basically very necessary in Brazil. And we will see that many of these strategies, the costs are lower than the technology we will do today. So basically, we can reduce emissions, even saving a lot of money for our society. And it's up to us to discuss with the kind of trajectory will go from now until along this century, we can continue increasing the global warming treaty to our society, or we can dramatically change it goes to a sustainable development and we will see a strong reductions in global emissions. So basically, we have to choose today, if you want, low climate risk, SDG achievements, equity and justice, or if you want ecosystem degradation, low adaptation, high emissions, large inequalities in our world. So basically, I finished showing the 17 sustainable development goals where climate change is one of them, SDG 13, but of course without a stable climate, many of the other SDGs will never be achievable. So I leave you with a picture of our possible new planet if you do not reduce emissions, and it's not it will not be a very happy planet I can assure you. So thank you very much I'll be ready to answer any questions later on. Thank you so much Dr. Atasio for that urgent call for action. I don't think I'm reaching out too much when I say that I think most of the people on the line today will agree with you that we want to follow the sustainable development trajectory. Let me yield the floor to our next speaker Martin, please go ahead the floor is yours when you are ready and reminder while you're pulling up your slides to everyone in the room that we're going to have time for discussion and please send your questions for our panelists either through the chat or the q amp a problem just just let's just me introduce Martin. Okay. Yes. Sorry, Renato, please. Yeah, Martin did reach bow is a lead researcher at the Columbus Center on sustainable investment where he leads economic and legal research training and an advisor work with a focus on legal and policy frameworks and practice for sustainable investment for chief climate change mitigation and adaptation goals. He holds an M in international legal studies from New York University School of Law. Welcome Martin, and we have a pleasure to receive you here. Renato. Thank you to SDSN and also to Joe, Joe park quadrilateral for inviting me it's a pleasure to be with you here today. And here at the Columbia Center on sustainable investments CCSI, we have extensive research experience and how the mining sector can and should contribute to achieving climate goals to counter the crisis that Dr. Arthur was just talking about right now. So we understand that addressing this crisis will have to address both mitigation goals, how the mine sector can meaningfully contribute to reducing greenhouse gas mission. And at the same time it will help the money sector will have to be engaged in the need for the world to adapt to those climate impacts to become more resilient to the physical impacts of climate change. Today's presentation focused on climate change impacts on mining operations and mining territories invites us to think about the adaptation and resilience side of the coin not so much on the medication side. So we at CCSI have done quite a bit of work both on mitigation and adaptation but my presentation here will focus on the adaptation and resilience aspects. And just to clarify I will not have slides for the first part of the presentation. But I will at the end just showcase a few of our publications that serve as a basis of what I will be talking about and that are all freely available online for you to download if you're interested in learning more and exploring more in terms of what CCSI has been doing in this space. So to start it's of course very important to ask the question when you think when we think of climate change and mining. How can and how will the mining sector adapts and become more resilient to climate change risks and impacts because that's fundamental to the survival of the mining sector as a business in this world with a changing climate that was just presented to us. But here at CCSI we examine the issue of mining and climate change adaptation and resilience through a broader lens. So to ask the question of how the mining sector will adapt to what we also think about sustainability and climate action more broadly. Our starting point is that mining activities are inherently hazardous, even if the climate weren't changing and mining activities introduce risks and impacts that can be exacerbated by the climate changes that we're experiencing. So for example, mining activities can compete with local communities indigenous communities for water resources in the area where the mining is operating and in areas where water stress risk is already increasing because of climate change. Mining operations can also exacerbate risks and impacts of climate related events. So for example mining activities can contribute to deforestation which exacerbates erosion landslides flooding in the rainy seasons. At the same time as mining has this interface with climate impacts the mining sector has technological and economic capacity to prepare for to prevent and to control these risks and impacts to a greater extent of course some of it is unavoidable but the mining sector has a capacity to force tea and to be prepared and therefore mining companies have a responsibility to address these climate related risks and impacts that mining activities create or exacerbate. So we need to ask ourselves how can and should the mining sector play its part in supporting their host communities and their host countries in adapting to climate impacts and then becoming more resilient to those impacts. And here at CSI we understand that the engagement of the mining sector and climate action both in terms of mitigation and adaptation can benefit all stakeholders communities. Mining communities that are affected or indigenous communities or more broadly communities within the host states of the mining activities can reap sustainable development benefits of more investments, for example in renewable energy in terms of mitigation, but also climate resilient infrastructure that the mine will build. They can re benefits in terms of reduced poverty and inequality and realized human rights workers can also benefit from upskilling these resource rich states can benefit from sustained revenue flows that would come from these mining activities if they are operated in accordance with climate goals and mining companies that reinvest, reinvent and invest in climate resilient and also thrive in an economy that is where climate change considerations are increasingly important. Of course, for us to tackle these impacts and the interface between mining and climate we need to have conducive legal frameworks for the governance of mining sector activities. Domestic laws are the ideal legal instruments to regulate how money, the money sector contributes to climate action both on mitigation and adaptation. But when there aren't those laws sometimes governments use climate related provisions in contracts or contract models or community development agreements to advance those climate goals in the sector. And in our view, the responsibility that mining companies has as a result of the hazardous nature of their activity should be embedded in these legal frameworks which will be reflected in statutes and laws or regulations or contractual instruments. Our focus here at CCSI is precisely to look at how these legal provisions whether in laws of contracts or regulations in shape and drive mining investment so that mining investment helps build resilience and contributes to adaptation and climate resilience. So I'll just mention a few of our examples drawn from our lessons learned in our studies, it's constantly a work in progress we're always learning more and understanding better how the mining sector can contribute. One area where we feel like it's particularly important for legal frameworks to govern mining activities in this in this interface with climate change is in the environmental and social impact assessments and environmental and social management plans of the forest. They have to provide for protection for surface and groundwater, provide for net zero deforestation requirements, progressive restoration of forests to minimize that the impact that deforestation has in local communities require also climate vulnerability in in these processes covering areas of health, water, forests, biodiversity, and another area then would be emergency and disaster response mining companies can have a role and responsibilities and supporting governments, even outside of mining areas and in preparing for disasters that may be related to climate change post closure and land use planning is another area where regulation is needed to require mine closure and rehabilitation plans also to consider climate change impacts already from the outset already from the design phase. Also, another area where regulation will be important is the physical stability of tailings, taking into consideration the needs to design operate and maintain tailings in line with international standards and threat testing then for all climate scenarios that Dr. Artashev was presenting to us, allowing for best available technologies to be used, etc. A few, a few more details that that we can offer in terms of reducing deforestation, especially in contracts, government can use these instruments to require companies to account for direct indirect and induced impacts on on forests at every stage of the mining operations, they can require under a contract that that the mining company can juice climate risk assessment and a community vulnerability assessment, require that many companies comply with national adaptation plans and climate adaptation guidelines where these guidelines also community development requirements contained in community development agreements could require mining companies to incorporate climate adaptation strategies when these strategies are required by local indigenous and other affected communities. Contracts can also help regulate the use of water, including strict requirements on water use efficiency including penalties for when mines overuse water or release water wastewater there's not treated, and also providing mechanisms for communities that are downstream of the mine and they're affected or whose water rights are affected to have a grievance mechanism to express their concerns when their water rights are affected by mines upstream. And we can we can keep talking and give examples here, but I will just skip to one final point on the needs to integrate climate risks and just transition aspects into mine closure plans. Climate change has to be a consideration by the mining company already out at the outset has the plan in advance for the closure of the mine for the environmental rehabilitation of the mine site, and already at that stage requiring mining companies to integrate climate risks into those plans. So for example, mandating that the closure plan is already submitted at the beginning of the project, along with the environmental and social impact assessment, describing how the company intends to avoid or mitigate environmental impacts that are associated with mining operations, covering rehabilitation strategies that reflect an understanding between the changing relationship between the ecosystem and the climate, requiring mining companies to model the long term sustainability of rehabilitation projects, etc. But in the importance of including all these issues already in the closure plan is to set aside resources from the beginning of the exploration of the resource and plan in advance for the end of the extractive project, because it is after all an profitable resource, and the mine site needs to be rehabilitated in a way that is climate resilient for the project sites for the benefit of the communities. The consideration also has to be given to the re-skilling of the workforce to diversify the economy of the project affected community, and to address other socioeconomic and environmental risks and impacts that may be exacerbated because of climate change. Another final tool that I'll mention here is the usefulness of requiring mining companies to purchase insurance policies. So mining companies can plan for quite a bit of these impacts, but for those that they can't plan, they should be insured against and have specific tools to protect them based on any site-specific risks. And just to wrap up, I just wanted to quickly run through a presentation here, just to showcase a few of our publications. This slide deck will be available for you later. I hope you can see the slides. And this is essentially based on our project here on reforming mining sector governance for climate change mitigation and adaptation goals. We have publications where we studied these specific aspects of policy that could help drive mining activities to tackle climate change considerations directly and head on and incorporating these issues into their business plans. Also on allocation of climate-related risks and mining contracts. So a lot of resources that you can check here with all the links that you can click on later on. We've also assessed water-related risks in the mining sector. These publications are also available on our website, looking into how governance frameworks deal with water use and wastewater discharge in the mining sector. We've also conducted research on how to integrate renewable energy into mining operations. So this is on the mitigation side, not so much on the adaptation, but on how mining companies can also contribute to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. And we've very recently with several partners worked on developing a roadmap to decarbonize mining value chains focusing on copper and nickel mining value chains. So all of these publications are freely available as I mentioned at the outset. You can check them out on the specific pages that we have on extractives and climate. Or otherwise you can just visit us at ccsi.columbia.edu. You're also welcome, very welcome to reach out to me by email if you're interested in learning more. Thank you so much. Thank you, Martin. And thank you to our other speakers for turning on their cameras for our discussion. I have a couple questions that I think are linked and a nice dialogue I think that we can initiate between our speakers. I would love to hear from Paolo, just the state of science on the projections for climate change and how accurate you think you can get it down at a scale that is like reasonable for a specific operation mining to plan ahead that you know how much uncertainty are they are are they not dealing with at this point. And then going from that I'd love to kick it back to Martin with a question that we got from Ben Bowie, which is how would you characterize the way that these impacts are being factored into new mind planning and is there variability between companies or commodities. I think that'll be a nice two sides of the coin here. Okay, going quickly, basically uncertainty is part of science. There is no science without the uncertainty. It can be large, it can be small depending on the condition. As I show some of the maps of change in precipitation, for instance, we see that we have right now a global climate forecast with 10 to 20 kilometers resolution or even better in some cases. So basically we have very high resolution in terms of our climate models, but of course there are uncertainties in forecast especially if you go from 50 years from now, or 100 years from now. Most of the people think that the uncertainty is basically due to the climate model. No, the uncertainties doing to the, how much will be the emissions in terms of greenhouse gases in 10, 20 or 30 or 40 years from now. The uncertainties most of the socioeconomic issues that unfortunately makes it very difficult to do reliable and much more precise forecast for climate for individual reasons. I mean, if you want to jump in then, or if you want I can repeat the other half of the question. Thank you Lauren I think I think I have it here so the question was on how I would characterize the way in which these factors are being considered whether there's very variation across companies across metals. Talk a little bit about what I know, which is based on the analysis of contracts that we did in a couple of years ago on how mining companies are tackling and governments of course and mining companies and governments and their contracts how they are dealing with those aspects in in their legal instruments so I will start by saying that it's also a challenge to know exactly how these issues are dealt with because there is limited transparency on the instruments to begin with right so there's a database that we use for our analysis resource contracts.org which CCSI maintains with a couple partners which is the source of the legal instruments that we've analyzed of publicly available mining, investor state mining contracts that we've analyzed, and I wouldn't be able to make a comparison between types of minerals or even companies, I wouldn't be in a position to do that at this point, but what I will say is that, yes, there are very widely diverging degrees of awareness of these issues and degrees to which these concerns have been incorporated in existing contracts. We have found that many contracts that we analyzed are silent on many of the issues that I briefly talked about they're silent on obligations for mining companies, not to or to ensure that net zero deforestation is happening or that they have, you know, by diversity rehabilitation or forest recovery obligations that they consider crime climate risks and closure plans or that they hire climate related insurance. So many contracts are silent on those issues. Of course, our analysis was centered around contract. So it may well be that if we looked at more deeply into national legislations, we would find some requirements on mining companies in statutory law. But I, you know, my impression is that that would be even less likely that we would find more details detailed provisions and laws because regulatory frameworks legal and regulatory frameworks and to evolve even more slowly, it's obviously much easier to adapt a contract and to bring those concerns into a contract that to approve a new law or to reform mining law or environmental law and many of these projects are happening in developing countries that are lagging behind in terms of bringing their legal and regulatory frameworks up to speed to address these climate challenges. I don't mean to, I don't mean to say that developed country developed countries are doing that much of a better job. But of course, developing countries have resources and resource limitations and other challenges that make it even more difficult to tackle those issues. So in some, my answer to your question is that there's wide variability across the countries that we've analyzed and that we're far just like with climate action generally unfortunately we're far below the level of ambition and action that we should be that we should be at in order to be able to tackle the climate emergency properly. I think this other question we have in the chat might actually be best answered by Renato but I don't know Martin you might also want to come in on it a little better. We have a question about are there any concrete cases of specific technologies that you could implement in mining operations that allow companies to adapt. I think maybe Renato that you're working a little bit more closer in the field with operations maybe then our other two panelists. Lauren, I'll use this opportunity to eventually make some question before and then we can go to the answer to the specific question. Well, as I raised in the beginning of the opening, we will be targeting in the next seminars, big issues for mining. And when I say big issues both in terms of value, of intervention, the size of intervention as the long time. And the question also we have to ask is the mining sector planning for the future in those specific questions. And then talking about that about the many, many big issues but represented by climate change. We will learn from Martin that SDG is a kind of a vector of concern, internal governance, internal concern. But my question is the following is SDG not too, too much domestic. Okay, right now. I don't know about any other companies and how they could should eventually, let's say change their strategies for the future based on adaptation of the SDG for the big issues. This can be a question for the two. And when they finish I can answer the question of the audience. Okay, eventually I can start. You know the SDG is, you know, what were designed to be implemented in all scales and after from the global to country level to state level and to municipal level. Of course you know each different level have different requirements is easier to implement some of the strategies, but without the global effort you know getting all the scales. We could never reach the SDGs either at the individual country level to globally. So basically you have to work in all levels. And this makes it very difficult because globally we do not have a governance to do that. So basically the cops and United Nations do not even have a mandate to deal for instance with the climate change issue you know they were done in the post war, you know to accommodate the distribution of power big team, the big countries. So basically, developing countries have no practically no word on this policies. And then we have a very serious global governance issue at the country level of course you are much, much better at the country level and the state level and at municipal level. It's a task for all of us to really implement the SDGs that is the only way is structured so far to achieve a minimum of sustainable development in the next decades. I want to clarify with you because I'm not sure you meant SDGs or ESG. So in terms of the SDG framework, I think Paula has done an amazing job here and I don't need to refer to that. So ESG ratings, I think there, there's very little certainty around how these ratings are formulated, the criteria that are considered, and even within the financial community there's quite a bit of pushback now that ESG ratings are considered mostly for not mostly but occasionally for greenwashing and not really leading to investment that tackles the problems that the SDGs referring to Paula's explanation the SDGs seek to address right so an ESG base strategy doesn't necessarily tackle the SDGs which are the goals that we should be focusing on. And I think there's skepticism generally we at CSI certainly have skepticism about the ESG frameworks and ratings currently out there, precisely because they are so vague and certain, and often focused on reducing risks for the operations but not necessarily taking a broader sustainability perspective that would be necessary and that the SDGs do provide. So those are my two cents on the applicability of ESGs and the usefulness, very limited usefulness of this framework for now in my view. Thank you. I apologize for make wrong the conflict between ESG and SDG. Okay, many, many codes. Oh, and referring to the question that came from the audience. I may say that's the following. Certainly, the countries can be the companies in each country that even have more severe or less severe climate change conditions. Right now, they can share the technologies and practice they are, they are doing terms of really improving. Okay, and I understand that ICMM certainly is doing that. The second is that with the disasters that are happening around the world and we can make put an example of the two one in Brazil. Certainly, there is a lot of technology that was developed by pressure because they have to solve the response to the to the disasters. And for example, what to do with the residues. Okay, and what to do with the dams. What are the new engineering parameters for that. So, I understand that the pressure from society, the pressure from, let's say, from safety demands, and the pressure for international, let's say, value of the companies. Certainly, this will speed up the response in technology. But it's also important to another to mention that the latest IPCC report makes it very clear that we have all the technology available right now to reduce emissions by 50% by 2030. So, basically, we do not have to invent anything new. All the technologies here, ready available, ready to be implemented. We don't need to reinvent the wheel to have a much more sustainable climate in the second part of this century. What we really lack is the issue of the governance and also pressure from the industries because of course the industries in general have a lot of to lose in terms of climate change as the global, global fund make it very, very clear. So basically our society is in a clear transition moment that I think that you have only way to go forward. That is the way to reduce greenhouse emissions, reduce the risks of business like mining and other businesses are having in an way that will be a much more sustainable society. That's the only way to go. Yeah, so the challenge we may say that is local and global. So we have to look for the local more for the domestic safety of the companies and the territories and global and really to work together in a big cooperation framework to really make change because that's the only way. Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry, Lauren, maybe I can jump in to reinforce Carlos point. And it's a publication that I briefly mentioned at the end that I just dropped the link in the chat here but it's also in the, the deck that will be circulated with you. So this study that we've conducted on a net zero roadmap for a copper and nickel value chains, which was sponsored by IFC and CCSI is one of the partners that developed the study and just to reinforce the point that many of these technologies are already available or will be available at to help decarbonize mining operations by 2050, not only to reach the 50% reduction that's needed by 2030 but also to, to reach net zero by 2050 and we're talking about increasing the renewable energy presence on site, bringing site operational energy efficiency improvements process electrification, zero emission haulage trucks process heat electrification green hydrogen. All of these solutions are already in the pipeline to be to support mine sector, the mine sector in decarbonizing its operations and playing its part towards net zero it just has to be done and yes we do need the government framework that is not fully in place. And at the same time mining companies have a comparative advantage to get a head start and to show that they can produce sustainably and that they can produce a higher, the product itself will be the same but the impact of the products will be different in its environmental quality and its climate integrity right so mining companies can take the lead in showing that they're they can bring their operations to net zero and also use them to build community resilience and help communities adapt to climate change. I was going to try to get just a couple last questions in before our time ends. We have a question from Ireland spank that I'm going to address. She's asking if SDSN has a position on the sustainability of extraction based on the type of metal or mineral. The short answer to that is no. And the longer answer is just that it's more complicated because the methods of extraction the regulatory frameworks the companies that are operating the skills at which they're operating are so different from country to country and even within countries from region to region that we don't have a blanket statement on that because it depends highly on the local contexts. So if anyone else wants to tackle that you can chime in on it as well but since it was a question about an SDSN position I thought I would take it. The one that I wanted to turn to you guys as a question from Neymar Vallipuram, which is about the need for metals for the transition to the renewable economy and how is the mining sector going to manage their own mining footprint when we need this dramatic upscale upscale in the production of these these minerals and metals for the energy transition. Maybe Martin first on that one and then Paulo. I think the solutions that I refer to just now are a start of an answer, right, how our company is going to address their footprint by implementing to begin with net zero strategies. But it's of course not only about addressing climate change right it's also about tackling other environmental issues, tackling the impact of mining operations on water resources and biodiversity loss and communities that are affected by other types of local pollution disruptions in the local environment. At the same time that all of this has to be managed and in our view it has to be managed in light of regulatory frameworks and not just by private sector initiatives operating alone. And at the same time, they have to be negotiated with the communities that are most affected to by the impacts of the mining operations and that are really on the ground and experiencing that that footprint closer to their closer to that footprint than any one of us that may be more removed from them. And maybe another element that I would bring here is that mining companies could also explore getting more deeply into the circular economy and exploring how mining companies can function more as materials companies that also work in recycling and recovering materials that are used to to complement obviously we will not be able to supply all the minerals and materials needed for the energy transition and for future generations and all the technologies that we need to build. So all of it will come from recycling or reuse or repurposing, but some of it can, and if, if we can maximize, you know, reusing making the most out of the materials that have already been extracted we can also extract less and reduce the footprint of extraction through, through that pathway as well. I would like to remember that actually for me, you know the mining industry does not actually have a very good environmental records, not just in Brazil, but everywhere. This is a reminder of the coal mining, for instance, especially in developing countries, as well, gold mining in Amazonia with lots and tons and tons of mercury being released into the ecosystem. So basically the environmental record of mining activities actually very bad. So how to improve that, you know, that is the reality right now and according to the question they need for metals on the energy transition will certainly put a lot of pressure on this particular sector. And of course, as Martin mentioned, you know, investing recycling that will be absolutely necessary for lithium and battery materials, but certainly even with a very heavy recycling that does not happens right now with the exception of aluminum. That will have serious environmental problem. So it's a particular industry where the society itself have to follow very closely in order of not getting our serious environmental problems we have in Brazil and many other countries that are affected by mining activity does not much worse than they have been today. So for that, the industry, the society will have to work very closely because that's a very, very serious issue and the demands for the society can I can only see that they can make this issue even more serious yet with more environmental damage as we see today from this particular industry. Lauren, may I just finish? Yes, please. Well, what we can eventually raise as a conclusion, one of the conclusions for this webinar, and based on the talks by Paulo and Martin, is that eventually in another webinar, we may bring the governance of these big issues. And eventually the mining company, they may change from the local governance and eventually go to the country governance and to the global governance. Okay, because the issues are becoming too serious and too long term to be resolved very quickly. So governance of the of the climate change governance of water and governance of other issues certainly have to be revealed. We are almost out of time. Maybe we'll do one last round Robin circle I don't know if anybody has final closing remarks. But if you do will go Paulo and then Martin and then or not I will have a very final, final remarks. And this will be the last time I speak so I'll just thank everyone for being with us for this hour. So I just want to thank for this important discussion. It's a critical industry in terms of environmental and social economic impacts, and at the same time, is an strategic industry for the future of the planet. And this makes this debate very, very important, you know, of course are not closing the issue with not have a really sensible recommendations, other than to pay attention that this particular industry should follow the 17 sustainable goals that is the only pathway to build the more just a more equal society as well as more sustainable society. So, let's press not just mining industry, but all the economic activities in our planet you know to a more sustainable society in order to build the better society than we have today. I would also just briefly thank you for again for inviting me it's been a pleasure to participate in the webinar and just to reinforce that I'm always very interested in continuing the exchanges post webinar we're always learning always interested in the SCSI and continuing to explore how we can improve the governance of the mining sector to reach the SDGs, as my colleague has just mentioned it's super important to have all these factors always under consideration, all the 17 SDGs climate is a very important one of them but we cannot neglect the others. Thank you once again, and we'll stay in touch I hope. And just from my side. It's interesting that, although we have a lot of news bad news from about climate change. We still see a lot of incredulity and passivity. Okay. And so that nothing is either nothing will happen, or either or not they are the last site cannot make anything. So, talk about mine in the territory certainly this can be a vector of integration of the of the plans for the future so the mining industry can use the very dense network framework and together with other frameworks really create a unity because I don't see the petrochemical working with mining and working with the energy they're separated. Okay, so the only solution I see again turning back to governance is that their frameworks work together. Thank you so much with that will close it out thank you everyone again for joining us I wish everyone a great rest of your day and whatever time zone you're in. Bye bye guys.