 Don't believe the negative hype around sodium salt. Most of it is flawed or completely wrong. Salt is essential for function, for life. And believe it or not, consuming too little of it has far more dangers for most people than consuming quote unquote too much. All right, so Element T did, Element did a phenomenal post on Instagram. I'm gonna read you some of the stuff because it's exceptional. I'll tell you guys why, the reasons why we still hear. There's fear mongering still around salt, I believe. There is, totally. So it was a great post. I love posts like this because they have data, they talk about here's what's accepted common knowledge. Here's why a lot of it's wrong and here's what's really going on. So the post says that the World Health Organization recommends a worldwide effort to reduce the average daily intake of sodium to about two grams of salt. So it's based on the premise that lowering sodium intake would lower blood pressure leading to fewer strokes, heart attacks, and heart failure, right? So this is one of those things where they're like, okay, if this does this, then this means that. So like, okay, if we get everybody to reduce their salt, we should get lower, less heart attacks, less strokes. Therefore it's gonna cause improvements in health or whatever, but check out these studies, okay? A 2011 study published in the Journal of American Medical Association shows that cardiovascular events were higher in individuals consuming less than three grams of sodium per day. The lowest rate of events was at four to six grams of sodium per day. In 2014, meta analysis shows that sodium intakes less than 2.6 grams a day were associated with increased cardiovascular disease events and all cause mortality, compared to intakes that were between 2.6 to five grams a day. In 2017, the Framingham offspring study showed that individuals who consumed less than two and a half grams of sodium per day had consistently higher blood pressure than those who consumed two and a half grams. So why the conflicting information? Why do they keep recommending lower sodium? Because the amount of people that eat a high process diet that have tons of sodium, because if you compare, I remember I saw, I remember seeing this a long time ago, I saw like this chart of like one fast food meal, compared to like salting your whole food. So if you made your food and you salted every single meal, like for like a week, it would, and it's this comparison. Yeah, it was like the one fast food meal was more sodium than salting every meal you ate on whole foods, like for a week. Yeah, what this is, what's likely is that this is a correlation that they're trying to make a part of, or trying to blame or connect to the cause, right? So if you just look at general data and you look at Americans and you say, wow, look at this, Americans who consume a lot of sodium are sicker, fatter, have more strokes and more heart attacks. That's true. It's not the sodium though. It's the fact that exactly what you said, that heavily processed foods tend to, well, actually tend to always consume a ton of sodium. So what they're seeing is not the result of the sodium, but rather the result of the fact that these people are eating heavily processed foods, probably eat more calories or overweight because of that and so on. And that's because it has to, right? To preserve it, is that the- It's just flavor. Remember, you know, heavily processed foods, most of the research that goes in to the foods, most of the investment that goes into these foods is into making them hyper-palatable. And there's three main ingredients to hyper-palatability. Salt, sugar and fat. Salt, sugar and fat. Every chef, anybody who's ever studied how to make food taste good knows that those are the three key ingredients to hyper-palatability, right? Salt and sugar and then fat with the mouth feel. If you combine those three things in the right proportions, you can make food more pleasurable. And if you have something that, let's say, let's say you advertise something as low fat, well, we've removed one of the things that improves hyper-, improves palatability. So what we're gonna do to offset that is increase the sugar and the sodium, for example, or use all three. It's funny to taste like specific cook, I kind of judge this based on cookies. Like, so I went to crumble and was like, what? How is this like so much tastier and it's loaded with butter? Like, you come to find out the amount of calories and like how dense it is, it's hard to eat like a whole cookie. No, whole cookies a lot. Bro, they're not even cookies. They're like a quarter of one or two. They're like cakes. It is, it's like, it's a really dense cake. But I mean, it's delicious, but again, they just ramp up like one factor, like the fat, like to the nth degree. Did you look up, I was curious actually, the last time I had one of those, I was like, man, I wonder what the calorie is. Oh, it's, it's, I mean, it's horrific. I mean, you're like, one cookie is only like, it's like a thousand. I would guess a thousand calories. It's gotta be. And the frosting on them, on some of them is like that thick. Right. It's like another cookie. Yeah, I had like a few bites and, you know, it's just one of those things that's on the way up to truckie and the kids really wanted it. And it's like, oh my God, I just can't, I couldn't believe like the level like they've gotten with cookies. Am I a bad person for looking into like starting one of those franchises? I did. I looked all into like. To start one? Yeah, yeah. Exploding bro, everywhere. You're just hedging is what you're doing. I'm trying to get everybody healthy, but just in case they don't get rich. What does that say Doug? Oh, wow. Each cookie is. Oh, it's less than I thought. About five to six hundred. Bro, but it's one cookie. Five to six hundred calories. It's a meal. And also allowed to be 20% off. Oh, that's true. Yeah. That's true. That's what people are. Okay. What's, what's 20% of 630? Oh, it could be another hundred. It could be another hundred. It's over 700 calories, like 750 or something. Yeah. That's the difference. Yeah. That's crazy. But yeah, back to the sodium. It's, this is terrible because now look, there are specific segments of the population and you know who, you'll know this if this is you, right? Where you have health issues. You work with a doctor or kidney specialist. Like we got to reduce your sodium. That's okay. But like everybody else, if you're got, if you're otherwise, if you're overweight, high blood pressure, you're not healthy or whatever, you get leaner. Like trying to cut sodium is it's, that's not, that's not necessarily what the problem is. And then even worse, here's what the problem, here's the worst part of it is, forget the population of people who are really sick because really sick people are not the same as otherwise healthy people in terms of how their bodies react to foods and certain things. If you're otherwise healthy and especially if you're fit and healthy, especially if you exercise and you're healthy, here you are health conscious and you hear this news about salt. And you're like, you know what? I'm a health conscious person. I watch right eat. I like to work out. So I should probably eat a low sodium diet. No, low sodium when you're active and fit and healthy is actually not just not gonna help you. It's gonna make you sicker and worse. It's gonna increase your risk of things like cardiovascular issues and also just poor performance. So sodium is one of the cheapest, most effective ways that an athlete can improve their performance especially people who don't eat heavily processed foods. What if you eat a moderately processed diet but still manage calories low? So let's say I'm like, let's say my maintenance is 3,000 calories and I eat out at least once, maybe twice a day but I still manage to land around 25 or 2,800 calories. Do you think one, I'm getting enough sodium from that just cause I'm eating out twice a day or because I'm low calorie, I could still afford to even intake even more salt. Yeah, you're probably, I mean, probably yes, but of course that's a different conversation, right? The challenge then becomes how hard are you making it on yourself to maintain the right amount of calories? Because when you're eating heavily processed foods, it makes it a lot harder. It's just a lot more challenging because they're so, I mean, they're engineered to make you overeat, but athletes should probably consume, definitely not the two grams or whatever they were recommending, probably closer to three to four. If you sweat a lot, maybe even more. Oh yeah, the electrolyte balance off, like it's interesting, there's a lot of the paleo diet was something that a lot of athletes were doing at the time and noticing that they just were not getting the kind of output in the type of performance that was optimal and they didn't even really realize it was like their salt intake because there's such natural whole food driven, which is like what health conscious people are trying to do, but again, when they go to exert all this energy and their balance is way off, they're not retaining that intracellular fluid and they're not utilizing that optimal salt intake. It really affects your output. And keep in mind too, you balance out salt with magnesium and potassium, these are the other electrolytes, there's just pure sodium. Then you can get like Himalayan pink salt or other types of salt that are more balanced with their minerals versus like the pure white salt that you get that's just sodium, there's nothing else in it. So natural salts are better and then if you wanna supplement with electrolytes, you want something that's like element has all that stuff. I mean, by the way, again, I just read you the stats, the World Health Organization says two grams or less. I have two grams of sodium before breakfast, okay? I have one packet of element before and during my workout and then another one by the back half of my workout after. So I'm already hitting two grams before even breakfast. Is that a gram in each one? There's a gram. There's a gram in each packet. So that's me, right? I would say the average athlete or whatever, probably one packet during the workout is probably plenty. I've already identified that if I do like half- But you also are really good about eating whole foods. Like you eat out probably the, maybe Doug actually, I'd say the least. Out of all of us, I'd say Doug and you probably eat out the least. And so it makes sense that you would supplement with at least two of those packets. I'm one because I actually still, yes, sir, that's why I was asking you. I mean, I had Nick the Greek eating out and then I had a poke bowl eating out, which I also put soy sauce on, which is loaded full of sodium. A day like that, I might not take a packet like that. Now, you know what, you know what's interesting? We say processed foods. There's still a hierarchy, I would say with those. I think if it's in a box or a wrapper, that's like the worst kind. Eating out at restaurants, there's so many different, there's a variety of choices that you can eat out at restaurants and still be, like I see your choices when you eat out. Right, right. But that in the same category as like, you know, like a frozen meal or box crackers or chips. Yeah, stone pizza. Yeah, no, no, no, no. No, I'm getting, you know, Nick the Greek, which is like a chicken kebab type of meal. I'm getting like, you know, teriyaki chicken type bowls. I'm doing like Chipotle's, I'm doing like, so a poke bowl that's like the typical, if I eat out, that's how I'm eating out. But still, even those are, they're loaded with sodium. I mean, they got a lot more sodium than, you know, than your typical, you know, obviously whole foods that you make yourself. So along these lines, I've actually noticed and this is interesting for me to kind of observe like what's popular with kids and like with drink choices and all that kind of stuff. And I kind of mentioned that like, there's a lot of attention and emphasis now on like Gatorade versus Prime. And so we're talking about like element, which is like efficacious doses of that. And so it's like, at some point you got to compromise to make it like taste like more sugary and like something that's like more mainstream. And so it's like, you have your two now kind of versions of that, which is Prime and Gatorade. And it literally is like, they're having their own little cola wars right now within like, yeah, like junior high kind of high school. And they're all, like even when we were up in Tahoe and I was just sitting there listening to these kids running around, they were like fighting over like, which one was better Gatorade or Prime? Whoa, what? Yeah, boy. I really think that as from a marketing perspective, these companies know that there's like, there's really two types of people that you're marketing to. You're either marketing to the well-informed health and fitness person, who is gonna see right between like, read between the lines on that and go like, oh no, that's not what I want. I want something on like the, like an element type of a choice. And then there's people that have heard, electrolytes are good and I know that I should probably do that, but are not informed whatsoever and are gonna be easily targeted as like, oh, they think they're making a good choice by doing that. Oh, and by the way, it tastes so good. Can I just say how inappropriate Prime would be for kids? Yeah. It's I think 200 milligrams of caffeine for a can. Yeah, caffeine. Oh, there's caffeine in it? Yeah. 200 milligrams. Yeah. Are you sure? It's an energy drink. It is, yes. It's an energy drink. I don't know whether until I looked it up. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. It's an energy drink. Are you fact checking? Yeah, that is correct. 200 milligrams. Oh, shit. You like, okay. Oh, that's why it's catching on. It's not entirely true. Okay, yeah. So there's the energy drinks. The two versions, right? Yeah, there's energy drink, which is the can, and then there's the like the sports drink. Okay, that's it. You can tell the difference. Yeah. The sports drink looks like a Gatorade bottle. Yeah. The energy drink looks like a... That doesn't have caffeine, right? No. Okay, so that doesn't have caffeine. So one of them does, one of them does. Okay, yeah. Nonetheless, are there regulations on like, can a kid, can a 10-year-old, can an 11-year-old or a 12-year-old walk into a 7-Eleven and buy a 200 milligram caffeine drink? Probably. Yes, I know. I have a problem with that, too. Bro, they do it. Do you know how dangerous that is? When was the last time you've been into Starbucks? It blows my mind until I'm in Starbucks. Do you know how dangerous that is? There's always like three or four kids that are in there that are ordering like loaded, you know, frappuccino, extra shot. Like, yeah. Wow. I've seen the same thing. Crazy. I mean, look, to be totally clear. It's funny to me how we demonize certain things and then like we've just totally like accept that when it's a drug. It's a classic drug. Productive, yeah. No, no, no, it's a classic drug. It has, it's deadly at like 10 times their efficacious dose which is a terrible, like that's a deadly compound. It can be very deadly. It can kill people very easily. It's addictive. It has all the classic addictive properties of drugs. You develop a tolerance and then you have terrible withdrawal when you go off. To be clear, if caffeine were discovered today, it would not be legal. They would not, they would make it an illegal drug, 100% across the board. But for some reason, a kid can go by, that's crazy. That blows my mind. They could do that. Yeah. Wow. Hey, then again, they prescribe them the freaking meth too. So. Yeah, exactly. I don't know, that's what Adderall is. That's exactly what Adderall is, so cool. That is so crazy to me. All right, today's workout program, giveaway maps, strong. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video, the first 24 hours that we drop it. And if you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. By the way, you also have to subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. Gotta do all that. Also, we have a huge sale this month. Maps and a Bullock, the original maps program, 50% off and then Maps Split, one of our most advanced bodybuilder style workout programs, also 50% off. If you're interested in one or both of them, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. Anyway, more studies on fitness. There's like some, this is kind of cool, right? There's some little bit of controversy in the muscle building world around studies that are coming out, showing that loading a muscle in the stretch position builds more muscle than in other positions. I hate studies. Well, first, let's start here. Let's be, let's start here. And then we'll move to, I know where exactly we're gonna go Adam. Cause then people go too far with it. Yeah. But let's start here. Loading a muscle in a stretch position. So exactly like we did in Maps and a Bullock Advanced where at the end of your workouts and the failure weeks, you're holding a stretch, like a fly in the bottom position at the end of the chest workout or stretching the lats for time and the back workout and so on. Okay. Doing so builds three times more muscle, three times more muscle than loading other positions in the muscle, which is true. So that's true. So that's really cool. Cool science. Now, here's where people went too far. Now you've got these fitness people who are saying you should just train your muscles in the stretch position, avoid the exercises that squeeze the muscle or work in the mid range. Yeah. This isn't replacing, you know, these other beneficial ways of training. It's just another thing to consider. It's not only that, it's a thing that I think I've said on this damn show a hundred times. It's like, okay, right now it is the most effective thing or three times in a controlled study of six to 12 weeks, but do that every single workout for a year. And avoid all this stuff. And report back to me on the benefits of it then. Your body is unbelievable intelligent with its ability to adapt to whatever stimulus that you give it. And so when we do these studies in these small windows, it's really easy to stimulate it in a novel way and show how impactful and amazing it is, but you're missing the story, the whole story if you don't understand how the body adapts. And so, and hopefully our audience who's been listening to us and has been following the programs, there's a reason why not every one of our programs has that in it. Because it would be ridiculous to do that in every single program. It makes sense to interrupt your basic, you're inappropriately applied. That's like a destiny for injury. It's like it, people just have to realize there's like some of these techniques, they're advanced for a reason and they're programmed in a sequence and that allows for a certain amount of rest that allows for a certain amount of intention going into it. And so that's the thing. It's like, there's a lot of different things you can do to the body to get to stimulate a muscle signal. Yeah, look, in head to head comparisons, there are rep ranges that build more muscle. There are specific set and volume ranges that build more muscle. There's specific exercises that build more muscle. There's specific intensity levels that build more muscle. But what we're missing out of that conversation is that all the other ones that are tested also build muscle. So it's not like they don't. And then here's the other big one. The body adapts exactly what you guys are saying. And so if you only do one all the time, even if it's the best in a head to head, eventually it becomes the worst. That's right. Because it stops working for your body. So, and then by the way, the worst one ends up being the best because it's so novel. Right, right. So then the formula changes completely. So, and now Brett Contreras is going off on this right now, right? Because people are coming after him, coming after his signature exercise, the hip throws. Cause it's not in the stretch. Right, and everybody's like, oh, see? Short and range of motion and it's focused more on the contract. Even though it's proven to build muscle. Yeah, yeah. So everybody's like, oh, see? Squats are better for glute growth because you could stretch them at the bottom, hip thrusts are a waste of time. And I'll tell you what, that's true. I still, I still think that's true. That what? No, that squatting is still, I still stand by, and I've said that since the very beginning, even when the glute, the floor bridge was, you know. Oh, that's the best glute builder. Yeah, sure. But are you going to be like, don't do? No, absolutely not. I would never say that. And it's like one of, it's not quite a pure isolation exercise, but it's close to an isolation exercise. It is one of the best isolation exercises for the glutes because you can load it. You can load it like you can't load a kickback or like a freaking dog pee. And I'll say this, if you have difficulty building your glutes with traditional glute exercises, the hip thrust is a superior exercise. That's right, because it is like an isolation exercise. Because it teaches you how to squeeze and connect. That's why people who are like, oh my God, my butt didn't grow with squats, now grows with hip thrust. That's right. But now he's going against, and he's like, well, we got to see more data. It doesn't show, it's like, look, Brett, that's not the point. The point is they all work, and it's the right mix of things that gives you the best results. And if you just do one thing all the time, then it eventually stops working. But that's why I still like this will kind of like take fire because not a lot of people are applying this technique. And it's like, it's super novel to like your everyday average kind of gym goer. They're like, wow, it's really working for me. But it is cool that this- Also keep in mind that there's other things that come into play with, you know, the choice of an exercise than just what builds, what signals the most muscle too. Like, do you think holding your weights in a stretched position all the time would be advantageous for like mobility and flexibility and like functional- The overall movement? Like, think if you just did that, like what that would do to the function in your movement. Could you imagine that? Which then would eventually lead to what? Less muscle. That's right. That's right. So like- People thinking like 16 week intervals, Yes, because that's how we study it. That's why I hate when we get in our space. I mean, you're right. Like, what are you doing, Brett? Like, you're so much smarter than that to even get into an argument like that. If people are too stupid to see it and they're gonna try and come at you, like with the track record that he has too and the amount of ass transformations that guy has. It's like, how is that not enough? As formations. Yes, dude. He's got like freaking 10,000 booties that he's built from doing that. Like, if that's not enough for you guys, like, come on. Seriously. But what I was gonna say is, what's cool about this data that's coming out is, I mean, we had just released Anabolic Advanced with the weighted stretch, you know, kind of component. And I love it now. More data's coming out confirming what, I'd say bodybuilders have identified for a long time. Which is funny, you know, this old bodybuilder wisdom just keeps getting confirmed by studies. They ignore bodybuilders for decades. Oh, you're dumb. That's not what's happening. And then, yeah, well, data shows that you guys are actually right. At what point do you think, because, I mean, I know I probably get labeled as the anti-science guy, because I talk so much shit about when you bring up a study or whatever. But don't you... It's just dinosaurs. Don't you, yeah. Don't you, yeah. How do we know they're real? They're a real anti-dinosaur. He's an anti-dinosaur. So, do you not believe being the science guy, okay, of us, that there's somewhat of a bell curve of like, at what point do we have too much studies about a subject? Right. Much? Yes. Because don't you... Or when the studies kind of start to confuse people, you know? Yes. So there's gotta be a bell curve of like, hey, this was really good. This pointed us to the right direction. Boy, this was, man, when we learned this, this made me a huge difference in society. At what point is it overkill? Here's what I... And we start to just confuse people and we're doing worse. I agree with you. So I know where you're going with this. So here's the problem. I love science, but don't worship it. It is not a belief system. People are like, I believe in science. Like get out of my face with that. Like it's like, it's a method. It's not something you believe in. It's just a method of testing hypothesis, looking at data, looking at that data, doing more tests. Replicating it. Yes. So when people worship science becomes a problem. Cause then what happens is they throw out wisdom and common sense. So they'll be like, you know, I know when my kids are on social media and their devices all day long, they act like little shits and they're disconnected. But I just read a study that said there's no harm. Yeah. It's like, okay, come on, bro. Like really not doing anything. Yeah, throw. Like there's common sense. There's wisdom and there's science. You gotta use all of it. And science often follows anecdote. What I mean by that is a lot of times scientists study things because there's been so much anecdote saying that something works. And they go, let's go study it and see what's going on. But until that study comes out to prove it, there's a lot of people are like, well that's not true. I know the bodybuilders are saying that when you stretch it, you know, train or stretch muscle that you build more muscle, but I don't know any data that shows that. Therefore it's not true. No, that doesn't mean it's not true. If they've been talking about for decades, there's something that's happening. You can try to explain it. We haven't figured out what the mechanism is yet, but let's not discount it just cause we don't have the study to show it. And then when the study comes out, if it counters all your common sense and wisdom, it's okay to question it. Like there's nothing wrong with questioning, you know? Cause like for example, how many drugs are pulled off the market every year? Right. I think it's like a hundred. It's a lot. I think the fact that we are finding ourselves in this era right now, and we're all 40 plus years old. So we've been around for a little bit enough to see this like, you know, doesn't it almost feel like we've watched this like almost full circle? We're like the methods of training and stuff like that. And the things that, like we're getting back to like, you're saying like this old, old wisdom that's been around forever. And we've done enough studies to go and prove ourselves right, then prove ourselves wrong, then re-prove again and then challenge that. And it's like, and then we are landing back really close to what people have been doing for a hundred years. Bro, you know what's funny about that? It's this is such, we're such narcissists, right? We think that people from a few, just because we've progressed in some ways doesn't mean that we're smarter or that we've progressed in others or that we haven't regressed. So we often look back a few generations or especially when we go back thousands of years and we think people were stupid. They didn't know anything. They're so dark. We're an arrogant, elitist society. Dude, these ancient Sumerians and Egyptians and Romans, I mean, they did shit with engineering. Yeah, without the tools that we had. Right. Like we can't even describe how they did that. Like there's no, there's no actual like theory that sound that we have for a lot of these things that they've constructed. They were able to predict, you know, comets and constellations and shit for thousands of years. Calendars are still accurate today. And how do they do it? They just literally lay down and watch the stars and somehow did their own mathematical equations to figure stuff like this out. I remember when I was, let's see, I was probably 20. And at the time I was doing judo and I was really starting to get more into competing of grappling. I remember I learned this particular grappling move and I remember someone taught it to me in their life. Oh, it's this new way of tech, you know, of stopping a takedown and then you do this type of thing. It's really cool. It's a new technique. And I was like, oh, this is cool. It's a new thing. I'm gonna show, I'm gonna do. No one's gonna know what's going on and it's gonna really work really well. Anyway, I went on vacation to France and we were in the Louvre Museum. Beautiful, by the way, one of my favorite places ever. Louvre is amazing. And we're walking through and there's all these, you could do this for three days, you could go through a whole thing and not see everything. And I remember there was this tablet, it was like this big and it was, I think it was Greek, so it was from ancient Greece and it was showing Greek wrestlers. So it's like thousands of years old, okay? And I'm looking at the wrestling move. Do you believe that you just learn? It's the one I learned. I'm looking at it, I'm like, bro, this is thousands of year old. Dudes were doing the same move, I just learned. We think we're all cool and vintage. Yeah, we think we're such bad asses. Because of that. Did you know, by the way, did you know the most decorated Olympian of all time? Let me see if I, let me get these statistics right, I wrote this down. The most decorated Olympian of all time was Milo of Croton. He was a wrestler. You ready for this? 1200 wins. 1200? 1200 wins and one loss. I feel like you brought this guy up a long time ago. 1200 and one was his record. Wow. For wrestling. You know who the second was? This is the guy. The guy that beat him is like, yeah. Yeah, either that or you got lucky. Yeah. You know, like a bee stung him in the face. Because like, how are you that one guy that beat bro? You know who second is? The second best, one of the best, the most decorated Olympians but best wrestler of all time. This guy was in modern times. I've talked about him many times on the podcast. Alexander Caroline. You know what his record was? 887 wins and two losses. Damn. What kind of a beast is that? You went that many times, dude. That's a lot. On a whole other level. Was it Dennis, our friend Dennis, who he was an alternate in Greco-Roman for Olympics? Yeah. And I mean, he's just a badass guy. He's a monster. He's a monster, yeah. Didn't you train with him for a little bit? Yeah, I was training with him for a bit. I didn't feel the grapple to do that. Oh my God, that guy's so big. You know, it's just one of those things. You're just like this little baby all of a sudden. Justin's a big dude. I want to see that. There's different people out there. Yeah, different sides. So he says that he went to Russia. This is way after Alexander, you know, he was like retired and he's like, I don't know how old he was at the time, 50-something or whatever. And Alexander was teaching the wrestlers moves. And Dennis is a badass. This guy was an alternate in the Olympics in Greco-Roman, competed in the World Abu Dhabi Championships a long time ago. And he said Alexander, it's like grabbed him or whatever and started messing with him. He's like, he left me with bruises. He was just demonstrating shit. And he's like, his hands were so heavy and strong. He left bruises. He's hard to control the amount of force that he could produce. People like that out there. On my body, anyway. There is a viral picture right now of Kawhi Leonard and who? He's a basketball player. And he's walking with Paul George, so two like massive dudes in the NBA. And they're like walking next to each other and give each other a high five. And Kawhi Leonard's nickname is the claw because defensively he always gets steals with that and he's got these hands on him. And you see that, see if Doug would pull it out, pull up Leonard and Paul George, maybe you can get it first, Andrew. Hands picture. It's going viral right now. It's not this last week or like that. And so if you've ever seen, I don't know. So Michael Jordan had this book and I'll never forget I had as a kid and it had his real side of his hands. It's so you could put your hands on there. And my hands fit inside of his palm. So you got big hands. Yeah, and so, right. And so, look at it, bro. These are both, okay, you're talking about like it. Paul George is like what? He's another guy with big hands. Massive. Bro, he could slap you from across the street. Is that wild or what? Yeah, you're talking about another giant dude that's doing that. So it's not like Paul George has got tiny little baby hands. He's got massive hands himself. And isn't that great? Hey, what would you do if you went to your proctologist appointment? I'm out. That guy walks out. I gotta check your, no, no you're not, bro. Call the nurse. How did that happen to you? That happened, yeah. It was like this big like Turkish guy, you know, like hairy fingers and everything. And they're like, oh, like these sausages. I was not even possible. I feel like that would be part of like the job application of like, can we see your hands, please? Well, I thought it was gonna be like a nurse or something. And you know, and then he puts the glove on. I'm like, oh my God. No, that fucking Thanos locks the door. Just like, oh, I told you guys when I ate lunch with Magic Johnson, right? He used to work, he was sponsored by 24 Fitness. Yeah, I sat next to him and I remember he's like, you know. What's crazy is he was a point guard. How crazy is that? What do you think about that? Like he's the small guy on the court. I mean, to me, he was the biggest dude I've ever seen in my life because I'd never been next to a pro NBA player. And he sat like next to me and at the time, Mastroff introduced us. And he's like, this is Sal. He's young prodigy coming up, whatever, Magic. Oh, nice to meet you, man. And he gives me a high five. And I was like, this is wild. This is crazy. Do you speak crazy? You know what movie I watched last night? John Wick. The new one? Yeah. I love the Wick series. Action on action. It's the, it's like just violence point. It's the director. That's why it's what, look him up, Doug. I think he's the same one who did the bullet train, which I love that movie. Bullet train was great. So good. It was great. So good. I remember trying to get you guys to watch that for a while and finally got you guys to watch it. You know what I like about? No, that's not who you were thinking, Adam. Oh, that's, oh, that's still esky. I didn't even know that guy was Chad. Of course. Yeah, dude. I didn't know it was Chad. Chad, Chad, Chad directed it. I thought I could have sworn that it was the same director that did that. No. Well, so it lived up to all the action. Here's what I like about it is that they don't pretend. It's not like they're making the movie like, we got to put a good plot. This has to make sense. It's an afterthought, yeah. None of this is going to make sense. Nobody cares about the plot. 50 million people are going to shoot at him. Nobody's going to hit him. He'll never get tired. At one point, there's a scene where John Wick, he's run, he's literally, he's at the top of like, like a building. It's like the third story. He runs through the window. So he falls out of a building, crashes on a car, hits the ground, right? He gets up. He's like, yeah, he gets up. He's like, oh, my ribs hurt. Yeah, and he starts running. And you can hear the guys, there's a bunch of dudes watching it. Everybody starts laughing in the theater. Yeah. And then, yeah, they like left him for dead, like shot him in the stomach. Like last time, the last movie I watched of his, and it's just like, oh, he's just still, he keeps on going. The car chase scenes were amazing, but every car that he like steals to like drive away from was a super rare classic muscle car. So like, so convenient. I was sitting there with my son and I'm like, bro, you would, and they were in Paris of all things. Like you would never see that car anywhere. Just not even one classic car in Paris. And then the other guys got another classic car. Yeah, I don't think I ever saw a classic car in Paris. No, no, they have the little tiny cars. They don't fit. Like there's nowhere to park them. Like you can't be on the road. Well, you ain't going to see that anywhere. Yeah, you don't exactly. You're not going to see a GTO judge driving down the road. Yeah, that's already rare. But it was fun, dude. It was a good movie. The fight scenes are good because they incorporate, like, I mean, I saw Jiu-Jitsu. It's like real MMA moves and martial arts. Yeah, just all kinds of stuff. And Keanu, I mean, he's got to do a lot of training to do some of that stuff, you know? Because that's, that's the positions and movements were brutal. Yeah, I heard, I heard too, like he improvises a lot of the, with the stuff with the pistol and all that too. So like the ways that he can kind of manipulate it and use it as a weapon. Bro, I was counting, I was counting at one point. How many rounds in this pistol? Oh, don't do that. I'm like, bro, it's like 40, 50 rounds in that. Where the hell is, it's like a video game, you know? You just have unlimited ammo. Did I tell you guys, speaking of rounds and, did I tell you guys that, so I watched the newest, I've already seen like two or three documentaries on this. And Jess, I know you like this type of weird shit. The Waco, Texas. Oh yeah. Did you watch the new Netflix one? Yeah, the new Netflix one. They set a stat that I actually didn't know. Do you know that that was the most bullets on US soil spread since the Civil War? Wow. What? Yeah. I mean, it was, it was hellfire. Like that's what's cool about this series, because the other ones preceding it, we're all just about the Colton, like what started the Colt. Yeah. This was actually from the perspective of the ATF. And yeah, yeah. One of the biggest, I mean, that's like the biggest black eyes on the. For sure. Yep. And you see how that all sort of unraveled and the lack of communication between negotiators and then also the aggressive unit that's in there trying to take them out. The big is a tank at one point. Bro, yes. Yeah. They brought in like the craziest tanks because they had a 50 cal. They had 50 cal. And so they wanted, they brought in a tank that actually could, they originally had other tanks that a 50 cal would penetrate. Then they brought like the craziest tank that we have. Because it didn't matter if they were in body armor or anything. Like, yeah, they had the kind of weaponry to. And then in a building that had probably 50 plus kids, they were driving it through the walls. Oh. And then shooting gas bombs. It's horrific. Oh, it was, I didn't know that stat, though. I thought that was crazy to think that was the most bullets ever spilled on US soil since the Civil War. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, isn't that crazy? That's wild. So in a situation like that, how do you handle something like, I mean, they obviously went in with force and that turned out bad. They ended up killing a bunch of innocent children. Right. How do you handle a situation like that? Well, they had some, but they had an inside person. They did, yeah. So they had an inside agent that was in the colt. Yeah, they had an agent in the colt. And so, I don't know, wait till the main dude is grocery shopping or leaves the compound one day and then get him. Yeah. But to go in when you know that there's that many women and children and stuff in there. Like, apparently the, I mean, the plan initially was to catch him with the element surprise, but that totally like backfire because they were actually going towards the compound and got lost, got lost, got lost, talked to a mailman that was like on route. Turns out the mail person was part of the colt, like or at least tied in with people in the sense, warned him ahead of time, you know, completely like uprooted their entire plan for a surprise. So they didn't have that on their side. And they knew that though. Now, this debacle. So they knew that the element of surprise was gone and they still proceeded. And like half the guys were saying like, we shouldn't go. We shouldn't go because now we don't have any, they have all the advantage now. Yeah. And yet they still. Do you guys remember those, this is a while ago, I don't know if we'll be able to find this. I don't know if it was a farmer. There's a couple of farmers where the government wanted to go in, move in on the land. And the farmer and a bunch of other people with their, stood there with their guns and said, no, you need to have a warrant or whatever. And it was a standoff. This happened like, I want to say within the last 10 years. Yes, the Bundy. There it is, standoff. What was the whole deal with that? What was the whole deal with that, Doug? Does anybody know? Yeah, so the BLM suspends the roundup of trespassing cattle, protesters disperse, incident defuse, I'm just reading headlines here. So that was a situation where the government. 2014 by the way. Where the government was like, no, we're doing this. And they're like, no, you're not. And it turned into a standoff. And I think incidents like Waco, made the government now say. Hesitant. Yes. And so I said, okay, what are we gonna do? We're gonna go in here and kill everybody. You approach it, yeah. So I have the details here. So it was a 21 year legal dispute in which the United States Bureau of Land Management obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over a million in withheld grazing fees for Bundy's use of the land. And from that point forward, I have to get the rest of the article here. And then he said, suck it. Yeah, he said suck it. He had friends that said suck it and they all got together. And they were okay. But I think Waco, really, if Waco hadn't happened, then something like that could have turned deadly. But I think they were like, what are we gonna do? Yeah. Because that's, you know, they're all staying their ground with their, you know, their right to bear arms or whatever. I don't know, man. Yeah, wow. I've seen a couple of docs on it. But like Justin said, this was the first time I had seen that perspective and that type of footage. So it was just a little three-part series or whatever I thought it was really interesting. But it was that stat that really blew my mind. I had no idea that it was like that crazy. That's just full on war they waged with those people. Yeah. And they just killed everybody, right? Yeah, almost everybody. Well, everyone ended up dying because they, it got lit on fire. So there's still to this day. Well, they're saying that they lit it on fire. It wasn't us. They killed, they did it themselves. Yes. That's the controversy. Yeah. There's like controversy on still about it, whether they lit themselves on fire because the way the building caught fire was it started in like four or five different locations. And one, they have a report of like one of the snipers that was from ATF that was, or not ATF, but one of the other groups that's over there supporting ATF that said, oh, wow. He thought they were burning them out because the way the fire was going, it didn't make sense. It was burning in the opposite direction of the wind was blowing. Yeah. So somebody started those fires intentionally. It didn't like accidentally happen. Dude, it's so frustrating too, cause like you see opportunities where they probably would have like been able to resolve it a few times. With the negotiator. Yeah. Like, so they negotiated and this one lady leaves to, because they used her kid as basically a way for her to get this emotional pull. And so she finally kind of succumbs to the kid needs me and they're able to get her to leave. And so that's all great. But then now, all of a sudden the news picks it up and then arrest her. They arrest her and they say that like anybody that's gone, we're going to prosecute immediately. Like what a fucking stupidest idea I've ever heard. Like that's the message you're going to send these people that you're trying to get out. And even if you do it, you don't put it, you don't let it be seen on television. Makes you wonder, right? Oh yeah. It was a weird, one of the snipers had Koresh literally in his crosshairs and he was, had this like, like dilemma. He's like, I can take him out right now. And he's looking at him and I'm looking, they're looking at each other. And he's like, I could end this right now. And he's still, it still haunts him today. That he thinks he could have saved like all those people if he just shot him. Oh wow. Yeah. But he didn't have, he didn't have the authority to do it. And he's just sitting there like, I could end this. Have you guys ever heard the story of the, I want to say it was a Soviet, I think he was a sub captain. I want to say who prevented thermonuclear war between the Soviet Union and the U.S. I've heard this story, yeah. That's on, there's a documentary about that. I have seen that before. Yeah. He was ordered to launch. They had false reports that the U.S. had launched nukes. And they told him to launch his nukes. And he didn't. And thank God he didn't. Had he done it, we would have picked up a launch. We would have launched ours. And it would have been just dust. Just, yeah, obliteration. But he literally went against his orders. He said, no, I'm not going to. And I don't remember what the reason was, but he prevented nuclear war completely going out. If Doug can find it, did you find it, Doug? I did. His name is Vasily Aleksandrovich Arkhipov. There's a dock on it, isn't there? Yeah. It was a Soviet naval officer who prevented the Soviet nuclear torpedo launch during the Cuban missile crisis. Oh, wow. He did, they see, nobody knows who he is. This guy should get like an award. This whole family should get an award. He did get an award. He did? Yeah. He got an award called a Future of Life Prize. Wow. Yeah. That's cool. That's a great thing of millions of people's lives award. Dude, Justin, I want to tell you this. So I went down the rabbit hole the other day. I totally thought of you. I didn't realize how many. Do you hear your aliens? Which one is it? Wow, you hit the nail on the head. Or both? No, it's, well, it's so. I like that, like, now I'm this guy, right? I'm the tinfoil hat guy. No, this is cool. I didn't realize how many ancient reports in ancient societies and cultures spanning the globe, how many of them described UFOs and similar descriptions. Yeah. You know, a ring of fire in the sky, a golden disc. Wheels in the sky. Yes, spinning wheel in the sky. Beings, different beings. There were reports of these giants. And these are all ancient reports that are thousands of years old across the world. Fiery serpents. Yeah. How crazy. You have to see the one that I put him on, the unsolved mysteries one, because I thought that was wild. What happened? Well, they had, like, what was it, 50-something people? At least. Like, 50-something people. This is an Indian reserve. Yeah, on this massive Indian reserve. And, like, within a, I can't remember the period of time. It was a very short period of time. 50 random people all come in that they saw this UFO. That's crazy. Yeah, they even had footage of it, which was cool. It had, like, it almost looked like tentacles that were dropping off little spaceships, like, behind this mountain. It was trippy. It was really trippy. Like, they had, like, some weird footage of that and even some, like, big foot type sightings and all that. So that was a fun one, because it had, like, incorporated, like, all these myths. Wow, a big foot and your clothes. Yeah, it, like, incorporated all of it together. It's like a press and I'm like, you've got to watch this, bro. This is like, run up your alley. I love all that. And then I try and, like, ground myself back a little bit, too, and, like, okay, so what's sort of, like, science, what's their explanation for phenomenon, sometimes, and all this? And that's where I, like, start looking up things, like, phenomenon, like, ball lightning. Yeah, that's real, isn't that? It's real. It's real. And so is, like, CNL Most Fire, if you guys have ever heard of that. No, I just knew that was a movie in the 80s. Yeah, it had a great song behind it. Yeah. CNL Most Fire. Woo! I've been waiting to see that. Yeah, so the ball lightning. Like, people just get a warning. Yeah, it's a trip, because I think it does happen in storms, and it lasts longer. It's like a ball of lightning, right, that, like, it flies through the air. It lasts a lot longer than, like, the normal lightning strikes. So it just turns it, it's like a sphere, and they've seen, like, phenomena where it's floating, you know, around, like, this orb that's just glowing. And, too, I guess, like, glass conducts it even further, and they've noticed, like, it's actually even come through windows. Yes. In people's houses. No, it's not even, it's not even a conspiracy theory or a paranormal thing. No, this is a real phenomenon. Yeah, they're saying, no, this is a real thing. Ball lightning. Well, and that's the thing, too. So now you start thinking, like, how many times have people reported, like, orb-like glowing objects, and, like, how many times has that been misreported as, like, a UFO? So I start thinking about the CNL Most Fire ones. Yeah, what is that? Weird, it's like plasma. So it's like, too, this is some kind of electrostatic, electromagnetic, like, energy that, like, points of objects, like, glow. And so, like, they've noticed this on, like, towers, like, power, what do you call those? Like, the structures were... Lighthouse? No, like, power lines, like, power line towers, like, so on tips of it, like, little glow. There it is. There was a picture right there, Doug, that pulled it up, right there, the purple one in the top left there. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so it's really weird. Now, I guess it's not like, it doesn't, like, heat up, and it's not, like, damaging, but it does, like, interrupt a bit of the... Why do they call it CNL Most Fire? Frequency, I don't know. Was this described a long time ago? Oh, because I guess it happens, I guess they noticed it, ships. What'd you say? Sesame Street? Sesame Street. That's what they first said. I like fire! Oh, it's fun! Yeah, A is for Apple. I hate it, I hate Elmo. Yeah, so I guess, like, sailors would notice it and it became good luck if they saw it, like, in the sky. And so, CNL Most was associated some saint. Have you, were you into this shit when you were a kid? Yeah. Me too, a lot. Did you ever read about spontaneous combustion? Yeah. Have you ever seen the pictures of it? Yeah. Of, like, like, there was... Do you believe it? Or is it, like, one of those things where you're just like... There was one picture I saw where there was literally, it was like a whole room was untouched and there was a chair and the guy's shoes were still there but everything else was charred but the room was untouched. Yeah. And I think his wife was there and she's like, he just caught fire and literally just, like... That's so hard to believe for me, but I like, I've seen pictures too, like you said, but, I mean, of course, how are you gonna ever catch it on film? Hey, what would you do if you saw that? Like, you're hanging out with your friends and your friend just catches fire? Oh, man, that was really spicy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. He just... Not Andrew. I'd be like, yeah, look, look, look, look, look. Look at that. Just the legs are left. The whole room... The whole room is untouched. It's a charred, like, skeleton now. Dude just caught fire and the legs were left. It's like, what? How did that happen? I've heard some explanations, like, that they were... Oh, and you know what they all have in common? They were really drunk. Oh, really? Like, it's really some alcohol combo? That's what I read. I haven't read this since I was a kid. See, if I saw that, if I'm hanging out, let's say we're all hanging out, right? We're all hanging out, having a good time, creating a new maps program. Oh, yeah, this is so exciting. Boom, Doug just explodes in the flame. And then there's this dust there. I'd be like... What'd he do? Yeah, gog it. What was he doing? That's what I was thinking too. Oh, who did he piss off? Yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking. That was weird. I don't know. I miss Doug, but he must have done something to deserve it, I guess. I don't know. What happened? If that's your fate, you know. Yeah, I used to... There was a whole... There was a series of books when I was a kid in the library that... It was like Unsolved Mysteries books. There was like 10 of them. And each one was on a specific topic. It was like The Mothman. It was Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, Swantonius Combustion. And I must have rented those books out of... I at least read each of them 10 times. At least. Five times same. What's that call where the symbols are left in the cornfields and stuff? Oh, crop circles. And I think one of the Unsolved Mysteries got into the theory behind those. Is it like the sound? Well, there was a guy that got... There was a guy that admitted to doing a lot of that. Oh, really? Yeah, there's been some hoaxes that have been exposed. So you went on those... And they go out with like... So it's like a rope, and then they have like... A plank. Plank, and then they just... They press it down. So here's my favorite part of that. So before that dude came out and said that this is how I've been doing it, all the conspiracy theorists were like, this is impossible. How can anybody do this? This doesn't work. Like, there's no way... How can they make perfect circles or whatever? And this dude literally had a piece of rope and a plank of wood. And he would just step on them. And just a rope. A rope, and then he scaled it out, and it's just impossible. And he would just create circles and shit with this rope. I didn't know that came out. Yeah, but some of them are so geometrically complex and stuff that people are still like, okay, well... Yeah, there's ones that like super high up, and they're massive, and they are perfect. Well, my favorite is the response to... So remember that gold disc that we sent out there that had like a very specific message? Oh, in the 1970s something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was like a sort of a mirrored version of that as a crop circle that had basically like their response. And so the other part is too, like people wanna see alien and that's so bad that you'll see people out there like reading any kind of like electromagnetic kind of signal or something. You know, to try and like associate it with some... Crop circles never... UFO. They never impressed me. What impressed me are ancient things that are put on the ground that you can't see unless you're in an airplane. And they've been around for thousands of years. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, like the something lines that... Oh, Nazca lines. Yeah, yeah. That one show... Is there one with a big naked dude and is with his weighing hanging out? There's like an old... Like, you know, I'm like, wow, some 13 year old ancient dude. Yeah, the Peru drives. Not just to be hilarious. Those ones right there. Yeah, they look like you would land a plane on them or they look like a bird. Yeah, the spider, that's a famous one in the... The one man that's like on the mountain that looks like an alien, one of the gray aliens, has this like big head and big eyes. Yeah, look at that. Like, how did they do that? Because you can't see them unless you're in space. And that's interesting that lasted this long too, right? It's like, because of the dirt, as you uncover the dirt, it's like this clay or whatever that like is a different color. But like, yeah. There was people like activists that went down there and like ruined one of them. They had to end up like roping these off because dumbasses like will go down and like ruin ancient things like that. That pisses me off. Speaking of ancient stuff, did you guys know Bluetooth? You know Bluetooth, obviously, the technology. Did you guys know the symbol of Bluetooth? I just learned this today. Oh, the Norse God? The Norse Runes. Oh, yeah. I thought it was based off of Norse God. No, it's like, there's like a... What is that? So there was a Viking. It's a hat wrote it down. There's a Viking that's well known. They called him Bluetooth. Yes. Why? His name was, it was a Viking King, Harold Gormson. It's so funny that Justin knew this. Of course he did. You just know a lot of random stuff. I got another part to this. You know that you have a mind for podcasting? Like how useless would all that be, right? Listen, I fill in all the gaps of random. Salad just be talking to himself. Yeah, exactly. I just be over here, huh? I can make stuff up though. I can make things up and Adam will believe you though. Yeah, you're right. He would have no idea. Through the power of suggestion. Justin can fact check me. No, Sal actually was a Norse. God forbid Sal learns like hypnotism. He was a Viking King. He reigned over a thousand years ago. He was well known for unifying factions of Denmark and Norway. So in other words, Bluetooth brings together technology and they think his name was Bluetooth for one of two reasons. Either one, he liked eating blueberries or two, he had a dead tooth. Okay. Blue. Here's a fun fact. You know his friends gave him that nickname. Yeah, sure. He had a dead tooth. Hey, he had a whole Bluetooth over it. Stinky Bluetooth. Well, you know, another fun fact of Bluetooth in Wi-Fi. You know who invented that? What? This lady that was like this beautiful actress from Hollywood. Really? Yeah. I forget her name, but- She was beautiful though. That was all I think about. But like, you're like, oh, I don't know. It's some dorky scientist guy. No, it was like this actress. Oh, I did know this. Yeah, this brilliant lady who just came up, like came up with the concept of Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and being able to kind of like- What's her name? Her name's the single. Hedy Lamar. Oh, yeah. You know who that is, Doug? Yeah, I'm back in the day. She was like- Why'd you say it like that? She's gorgeous though. It's like, wow. You had a poster too. Yeah. Came that away, cool. Is that Burning Your Memory, Doug? She invented Wi-Fi? Yeah. And Bluetooth, yeah. Both, huh? She was a beautiful woman, wasn't she? Gorgeous. You liked that- That was pretty cool. You liked that classic look. Yeah, I feel like- I missed my- I missed my era, dude. I felt like I was going to go well into this. Wait a second. She died in 2000, so when did she come up with Wi-Fi? Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Her mother of Wi-Fi. There's whole fame for development. So some of the technology she came up with was way before, but they used, they built upon- They built upon her discovery. On her stuff and then made Wi-Fi. Yeah. So you like that style, huh, Justin? Yeah. So when you, Courtney, role-play and stuff, did she do that? Did she- Did she put on little Marilyn Monroe? Yeah, like maybe. I mean, I've definitely bought her like polka dot dresses. Yeah, he likes the, what's it called? Suicide Girl? No, fifties, fifties. It's like the poodle skirt kind of like. Yes, what is that called? What's that? You don't know the genre for- Yeah, the genre eras. I'm definitely, yeah, I'll lean on sort of the greaser kind of look when we're going out. But yeah, I used to try and convince her to do more of that where they do kind of the beehive really hairdo, yeah, for girls. So that's your era. Your era is 40s, 50s. Yeah, for you. What's your era, Adam? Let me guess, your 80s, bro. No, no. There you are, 80s, early 90s, big hair. I liked, bro, I liked the 20s and 30s, dude. I liked it. Really? Yeah, mobster, like pinstripe suits and the- No, I'm talking about for women, guys. Oh, for just, I mean, even the girls. Really? Yeah, yeah. They wore the flat. I mean, it's classic. Short hair and the flat dress. Yeah, I like that classic. I do like that classic look. Both men and women in that era, I just think- You think that's the most attractive, is what I'm saying? Well, I mean, Jesus. That's what I'm asking you, man. Today, the girls, they're like pretty much nude. Yeah, but there's nothing. That's pretty dev attractive. Nothing. Use your imagination, Adam. Well, let's just take some bodies from today. And I like a classy look. I like old school stuff like that, 20s, 30s. I'm a 70s, for sure. 70s? Yeah, I love that. Oh, that's hippy, like, no thank you, dude. Like Farrah Fawcett, or, you know what I mean? Daisy Dew, like the- You like the crazy flowy hair. Maybe, yeah, something like that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, looks like I'll barefoot. All right, what about you, Doug? You're the one that went through all that, so. Yeah. Well, back in the- Doug's like 90s, 1890s. Fantastic. I love, like, the late 50s, early 60s, the styles. I mean, they had very form-fitting dresses. They dressed well. I kind of wish we would go back to those days in a way. This is what has prompted me to go out and wear a suit, you know, out to eat sometimes. People just tried a lot more back then, for sure. They did. They did. They put themselves together. But you know what I think? You know why, though? They didn't go out a lot, that's why. That's why I think they did this. Really? What makes you think that? Bro, you think they could afford to go out to dinner every day? Some people could. Yeah, of course, of course they still did. What do you mean, of course? How often did you guys go out to dinner when you were a kid, Doug? Well, we were poor, okay? Yeah. But most people didn't have a ton of money to go out all the time. It's all relative. Yeah, it's all relative. It depends on who you are. Yeah, okay. Dinner was only 50 cents back then, too. Yeah, but you only made 25 cents an hour. I know, but I mean, it's all relative. I think they still went out just as much and did. In fact, I would argue they probably went out more, as far as like the socialization of people back then compared to now. You had to go to plays and movies and dinners and stuff like that. Well, I do know. They didn't have TV, they didn't have streaming internet at home. Well, no, you're right. You're right, because I do know that, that you didn't. Live music was a thing all the time. Well, no, you're right, because I know my grandmother when I was a kid, when she'd take me to the grocery store and she'd watch us and she couldn't believe. She's like, when we go to anywhere, we used to make sure that we looked presentable. You know, you ever go to the grocery store, you see like... Slippers. Kids walk around in pajamas, actual pajamas, like teenage kids in pajamas walking around. I just like going to Walmart and seeing what people wear. That's the worst. It's my favorite. No, I'm with you, Doug. I do, I think that there, I miss that era of just, and I would go with the 50s, too. I like the 50s. Bumpy Johnson, that whole movie is around that time, too, right? That's the 60s. Yeah, 50s, 60s. Even the 60s, I'd say it's like that, too, is cool. But yeah, we're, I don't know, right? I'm also the guy who wears sweats to work every day. So, and I have for... We're in fitness. We can do it in two decades, you know? Yeah, this industry kind of ruined us for that. Yeah, I remember that. But when I go out, I actually, so I dress more comfortable in here than when I go out. I try and at least... Spice it up a little bit. Yeah, look super nice. I'm a somewhat presentable... Do my hair, you know what I'm saying? I brushed my lips and let my hair down, you know what I'm saying? So, you brush your hair. Okay, done. Hey, so I'm gonna take us back to health and fitness a little bit. Have you guys heard of the theory cannabinoid deficiency syndrome? No. I've mentioned this a long time ago. I don't remember saying that. So there's a theory that people who tend to suffer from mild forms of autoimmune type issues, skin issues, people who tend to have gut issues, low levels of chronic inflammation, may have a deficiency in endocannabinoids. So endocannabinoids are chemicals that we only identified after we started studying the cannabis plant. That's why they're called cannabinoids. Anandamide is one of them. There's another... I can't remember the other one that's... But anyway, they have functions in the body that modulate, among other things, modulate the immune system, help modulate inflammation. And for some reason, the theory is that, and this is gaining some steam, that some people just don't produce enough of these. They just don't produce. And so these people would probably benefit the most from supplementing with phyto cannabinoids, which are cannabinoids found in plants, like the hemp plant. So this may be why some people will supplement with like Ned, for example. It's a company we work with has full spectrum. So it's got all the cannabinoids. Why some people are like, this is a total game changer for me. Everything feels much better. And other people are like, I like it, but it's not like it doesn't change my life completely. They think that some people... It's like having too low of a hormone or too little of a particular neurotransmitter. That supplementing with these phyto cannabinoids helps bring your body back to homeostasis. So there has been reports of people that have felt like it's really helped repair their gut and issues like that. Oh no, that's not even just reports. There's data on that. Yeah. Yeah, there's data that cannabinoids can have profound effects on gut inflammation and on gut health. They, in fact, pharmaceutical companies are looking into using cannabinoids as a way to... to work on stuff like that. Tons of cannabinoid receptors all over the body, but the gut, the brain, the gut, the organs, the liver, very, very densely packed with these receptors. You know, this is interesting. Like we didn't even know anything about the cannabinoids, the receptors or anything like that until we got into cannabis and allowing that to be studied. That's true. You know, the irony of that, it's also why it gets mocked too because those receptors are all over your body. And if you have something that potentially modulates things like what you're talking about, then it has the potential to help so many things. And so I think that's also almost what gives it a bad rap where people kind of scoff at it and they're like, oh yeah, cannabis, right? The magical... Yeah, yeah, helps you with everything, right? And I think that's unfortunate because of that because it does potentially help so many different things for different people that it gets kind of this like, I don't know. So here's... So to get more, not to go too in the weeds, they're called... It's a type of a G protein-coupled receptor. G protein-coupled receptors sit on the outside of a cell. When you activate them, they tell the cell to do something on the inside. So G protein-coupled receptors are the most commonly targeted receptors by pharmaceutical companies. So if you're a pharmaceutical company, you're trying to elicit a response in the body, you want to target these receptors because you know if you do, it'll cause something to happen in the cell, okay? The cannabinoid receptor is one of the most abundant G protein-coupled receptors in the body, if not the most abundant. So along the lines of what you're saying, Adam, when you take something that interacts with this receptor, like net, use net, right? Full spectrum hemp oil. Or let's say you go and you actually use cannabis, which has THC in it, which also acts on these things. And then you have people like, it helps my headaches. Oh, but it helps my back pain. Oh, this makes me sleep better. But this one gives me more energy. It helps my joy pain. This helps my gut. And people are like, how can I do all those things? Well, this receptor is so abundant throughout the body. And we know that the cannabinoid receptors act like modulators. So in other words, it's like a dim switch on a light. It can either turn the light up or turn the light down. Your body decides what you need. So when it comes to like immune issues, in some cases, it helps with the immune system. In other cases, it helps bring down the immune system. It's too overreactive. It kind of brings it down or up. Yeah, it can bring it down or bring it up, depending on essentially what your body needs. So that's why people have been, you know, they've been so critical, but the science actually shows like, no, no, no, there are broad ranging effects. And like, that's why some people, you know, they need this, they get that out of it. These people need that. And they get this other thing out of it. You know, before we hang up and do our shout out, I want to address what I saw on the YouTube channel yesterday. And we've got somebody who is trying to pretend like they are. Oh, they're impersonating us. Yeah. And they're, and they're trying to get people to text them to win their free prize or what about that? We don't do that. That's not us. Yeah. We do not do that. It's, there's no free prizes. You get a free program. We do one per show. And we let you know in the comments that you won. That's right. So look out for somebody who's doing that. I don't know. The unfortunate part about this one is, because I've seen people trying to do it before, but this person actually photoshopped the logo that we have and then even titled their name really close to what we have. So it's, You could tell it's not us because if you click on it and look at their page, they have no videos. It's not us. Is that how you could tell? That's right. Did you? Yeah, basically. So you have to click on it and do it all? Yeah. So it's, it's a pretty common thing, especially as YouTube channels grow. We deal with it on like a, pretty much a weekly basis at this point and they can just recreate channels all the time. So if we ever push to WhatsApp, Telegram, that's not us. We're always going to reach out to you and tell you where to go. We're not going to sell you Bitcoin. Yeah. We're never going to have you text us. We're never going to have you. By the way, along those lines, I know we're going long here, Doug, but one of my favorite things in the world ever is videos of people on the phone with scammers, hacking the scammers computers, showing the scammers that they have control of the computers and showing them their location. Have you seen these? Oh yeah. They're on the phone. The guy's like, yes, give me your banking data. She's like poetic justice. And then he sends him a picture of the building because they use satellite imagery of the building and he takes control of their laptop and you hear them in the background. Oh, fuck, they have us. Oh, everybody on traffic, he's like, they're all freaking out and panicking. It's my favorite thing. I've never seen that. Oh, that's the greatest thing. Though we're watching that after we get off. Oh, that's my favorite. All right. Do the shout out because this, this page. So there's a guy going viral right now. I've probably hundreds of people have sent him to me now and these are great videos. He is a professional power lifter and he's real kind of a wiry thin guy. So he doesn't look like, and he wears like a janitorial outfit. He acts like a janitor, yeah. Yeah. And then he puts like his beer growing out and he's hat on and stuff like that. And he's mopping the floor always and he always goes around to like, like the biggest, most jacked dude that's either deadlifting or squatting or rowing or doing some like heavy ass weight. And he will walk over and you're like, pick it up with one hand. Like mop underneath it. Yeah. He'll mop underneath it while he's holding it and does stuff like that. So it's a, it's a, it's a good page. The dude's super strong. What is it? It's Vladimir or something. Doug, what is it? It's Shmondenko. Shmondenko. It's Vladimir Shmondenko. It's V-L-A-D-I-M-I-R-S-H-M-O-N-D-E-N-K-O. Yeah. I've had an experience with this. I remember it was a dude at Gold's once I saw. He looked like it was 160 pounds, lays down on the bench, puts four plates on. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have to go help him and start to rep him. Some people are just crazy strong. Yeah. And not that big. Yeah. This dude is like that for sure. He's free. Hey, look, most children's vitamins are basically candy. They're gummy candy. And you don't even know if they actually have what they say they have in them. Well, not Haya. Haya is not gummy candy. It's non-JMO. It's dairy-free, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free. That's, it's appropriate for almost every kid. And it's not candy. And it's got the appropriate levels of nutrients that your kids need. Go check them out. Go to HayaHealth.com. That's H-I-Y-A-Health.com forward slash mind pump and get 50% off your first order. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. All right. Our first caller is Mackay from New Zealand. Mackay, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, Sal. Firstly, I just want to start off by saying thank you for everything that you do. I've been listening for a couple years now and I can honestly say that you guys are a big part of why I'm still here today. I actually suffered from anorexia a few years ago. And I can just listening to you guys that actually helped me immensely of like just getting to a healthy way and being discharged from the hospital and everything. So I just wanted to say thank you for that before I ask you my questions. Hell yeah, man. Right on. Hell yeah. That's awesome. So basically my question is I'm at a crossroads with my training at the moment. Currently I weigh about 54 kgs which is like 120 pounds and I'm about five foot six. I have tracked in the past tracked my calories and my protein and I have been getting rough about two grams of protein per kilogram of body weight and been eating between 3,000 to 3,500 calories. But I'm just struggling to put on any weight or size. And my main goal is to just like obviously just try to bulk up, get a bit bigger, stronger, but also just maintain a bit of athleticism because I have played sports all my life and I do still enjoy doing that. And I will admit that I do love to train and I do so about five to six times a week. So yeah, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are. Did you say you're eating 3,000 calories too? Is that what I heard? Yeah. That's a good one. That's a lot. Yeah. Are you actually someone who struggled with the anorexia? Yeah, that's actually incredible. That's pretty good. You got a fast metabolism. All right. So do you have any of our programs? No, I don't. I've been just following a Push Pro Leaks split. All right. Here's what I'm going to do for you because you want to build muscle. You want to bulk up, but you also want to have some athleticism. Okay? Yeah. Here's what I'm going to do. And I like you too because you came on here, you're young and you made yourself vulnerable, told us some stuff about you. It took a lot of courage. I'm going to give you the biggest bundle that we have. I'm going to give you the Super Bundle. The Super Bundle has got some of our best programs. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to start with Maps Anabolic. Then I want you to move to Maps Performance. And then from there, you could pick and go in other directions, but I like to go Maps Aesthetic after that. I think that's going to be the best combination. In that Super Bundle, we also have Maps Prime. And Doug, is that it? Is that all we have in there? Or is there any other stuff in there that we have? Maps Anywhere is it now? Okay. And then Maps Anywhere is in there. That's a good program for if you're ever away from the gym, but you want to keep exercising. But the programs I want you to follow in order, Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, Maps Aesthetic, and continue to hit those calorie targets of about 3,000, 3,500 calories a day. And I think you'll do just fine. I think you'll put on some good strength and muscle. The Maps Performance program's going to help you with athleticism. So you're going to have everything you need there. That's a good nine months of workouts planned out for you. I have one question in regards to your training volume in relation to your athletic endeavors. How often are you playing sports or doing cardio a week? I'm not doing any at the moment. Yeah, I'm not playing any sports. I'm actually just starting my first year of university. So I'll be focusing mainly on that. But I just still want to be able to on the odd day off. You want to be athletic. You still want to be athletic. Okay, okay. I just want to make sure. Okay. Okay, that's what Sal said is perfect. And I just want to make sure that you weren't doing, playing some sport three times a week in addition to training five, six times a week. Because then that might be one of the reasons why we're not building or putting on size. I'd tell you to pull back on some of the training volume. And then... So I'm all good. I'm still training five, six times a week. You're here. Yeah. No, follow our programs as they're laid out. Yeah. And a bulk is actually three times in the gym. But you'll be doing trigger sessions on the other days. Okay. Okay. So it is. Yeah. So there's still other exercise and stuff. But follow the program as it's laid out. It'll work. It'll definitely work. And then I want you... Did you listen to any of our episodes with Jason Phillips? Yes, I did. Oh, wonderful. Okay. So you could totally relate, right? He also had some anorexia. And now he's like... He's got one of the best certification courses for coaches and trainers. So good. I'm glad he listened to us. Follow the programs that we gave you. My main problem... Go ahead. My main problem is just having accountability. Sometimes I get caught away with going to the gym and just... No, I get that. I'll be dragging you. I get that. I get that. So why don't we put you in the forum too? Let's get you in the forum. I want you to give us some updates on how you're doing and stuff like that. That'll help with the accountability. Okay. Sweet ass. Thank you so much, guys. Honestly, I can't tell you how grateful I am. Hey, man. We're grateful for you. And thanks for staying up so late. I know you're over in New Zealand. It must be... What time is it over there? It's actually only six in the morning. So yeah, Thursday, though. That's not too bad. All right, man. All right. Well, let us know how it goes. Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much. You got it. Have a good rest of your day. You too. Keep up the good work. Thanks, buddy. We're taking that out of your paycheck. Yeah, I know. I can't help it. You know, I see a kid like that, talking like that. What do you want, kid? Anything you want. Anything you want. Anything you want. Anything you want. Get to the sink. Yeah. No, that's good, though. I mean, again, like a young... I get it, dude, because we want to set him out on the right path, and he's definitely somebody that's motivated to do the right thing. So I could totally... Hey, 18 years old, coming off of Antirexia, eating 3,000 calories a day. That's great, man. He's doing great. Yeah. What a reversal. Doing phenomenal. And if he follows those programs as they're laid out, I mean, he's going to put on some size. He'll put on some strength and size. And by the way, for the audience that might be wondering why we didn't do a lot of conversation around food and adding a bunch of food, you have somebody who's had food had an issue with his relationship with food. You don't want to put too much focus on it. That's right. You don't need to put a bunch of strength, especially if he's already eaten 3,000 calories. He's eating good. He's eating good. Just train a little more effectively and continue hitting that 3,000, 3,500 range. You don't want someone like that to be hyper-focused on food and be obsessive. He's already been that person already. So that's the reason why, even though it sounded like a nutrition question, what should I do? And we didn't even go there. So that's the reason why. Our next caller is Deanna from Massachusetts. Deanna, how's it going? How can we help you? Hi, guys. How are you? Good to meet you all. Good. How can we help you? Thanks for taking my question. I'm really excited for your answer to this one. So this question is for those of us who are genetically predisposed for muscle growth in certain areas or if you're satisfied with muscle growth in certain areas and how to modify your program accordingly. So a little bit of background. I'm 42 years old. I've been working out consistently for almost two years. I started my journey doing a split program, training to failure. And then when I discovered you guys about a year and a half ago, I realized I was overtraining, under eating, and then doing way too much cardio. So I made some changes. I reluctantly gave up cardio. That was hard for me. But I completed two rounds of max anabolic and developed a measure of glutes for the first time in my life. So I've been a huge fan of you guys since then. So I'm naturally bulky on top. I don't know if you can tell from the pictures I sent you. I've always had like a boxy figure. So when I started lifting, I felt like I kind of blew up on top. It didn't take long to sculpt my shoulders and my back and my chest. And looking back, I'm not sure if I even built that much muscle. It might have already been there, but this is not a flex or a brag. It's actually been a huge insecurity of mine. So my lower body is a completely different story. I need a lot of work on my quad development, my hamstring, and some side glute development. So I'm currently doing a split program Monday through Friday. And my question, again, for those of us with the natural disposition for muscle growth in one area, how do we modify a program so that we can maintain what we've built in that area, but also get maximum growth in another area? So specifically, how would that look? I would love you guys' perspective on that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. We want to change the way you look. Can we not keep that? Can we not keep that? Yeah, you look, well, hold on. I mean, it is your body and we can do it, but I mean, I'm looking at the pictures right now. And this was after a couple of years of lifting. You want to change this? Let's back up, too. Hold on a second. Don't change this, please. Yeah, do you have that TikTok? Hold on a second. I got another question for you. Hey, by the way, you're north of 40. No, no, no, hold on a second. Are you over 40 also? Do you have that TikTok filter that makes you look like you're... Are you using that filter on TikTok that makes you look like a kid? Because I swore to God. No! Okay, when you started talking, I'm like, oh, it's 19-year-old kids going to have some fitness questions. All right, you got great genetics. I'm not giving you any advice. There's no way I want you to change that. Your shoulder, arm, ab, like, you look incredible. Yeah. This is actually... You know what this conversation is for? We need to get in your... This is your own psychological thing that's going on. And you've got to... We got to work through that. We don't need to do anything to the physique. Yeah, I'm sorry. We can't help you. I'm out. No, I look. Look, all right, look. I'm going to answer your question now that we told you our opinion. Okay, because that's our opinion. You look amazing. I think you have... You're blessed with incredible genetics for muscle building, which is great. Look, here's the beauty of strength training or one of the unique factors around strength training. It's the only form of exercise where you can pick and choose areas of the body to develop. So it's as easy as this, okay? This is as easy as it is. You look at your total volume for the week and you trade volume from upper body to lower body. That's also... If you're doing, let's say, you know, for the whole week, 12 sets for shoulders. And you're like, you know what? My shoulders look amazing. I don't want to develop any more. I'm going to just do three sets for shoulders. Well, now you have nine sets left over that you could add to your hamstrings or your quads or your glutes. And you could do this all over the place. So take your most developed body parts or the areas that you're like, look, they respond so easily, so well. I don't need to do a lot of work for them. Take those remaining sets and then put them towards areas of your body that you want to develop. That's as easy as it is. Just call me once a week and I'll tell you how good you look. You don't need to change anything. I'll work on this insecurity with you. Just give me a call once a week. Trust me, the bottom does not look that good. It's like, it doesn't match. My top is like, whoa, but like I said, I spare you my butt pics, but it does not. Okay, so that's fair. Okay, so that's understandable that you... I mean, because I think your upper body looks incredible. Now, if you say that your lower body just there, Sal's advice is exactly right. Then so lay off of some days when you would normally do some shoulders or chest work and upper body stuff and just sub in more leg training and more glute training. So that's... Are you following a MAPS program? I was. Right now I'm following a split program. Okay. Which program? But not a MAPS. I plan on doing advanced after. I would love to see you on aesthetic. Oh yeah, a MAPS aesthetic would be great. A aesthetic and hamstring glute focus. Yeah. Okay. Do you have MAPS aesthetic? I do. I have MAPS and aesthetic. A MAPS aesthetic I have, I guess. Yeah, do that and actually put your focus as hamstring and glutes. Yeah. And make those your two primary focus and then that... It'll do the program and we'll do the rest because it's designed to be that way. And then still if you feel the upper body is still way more dominant... You just cut some of the volume. You just cut back on some of the upper body stuff. But yeah, now you look phenomenal. Deanna, I'm going to ask you a question. I want you to answer right away. Okay. So right when I ask you the question, you give me the answer. Okay. You ready? All right. What year were you born? What year were you born? 1980. Oh my God. She is 42. Wow. All right. Well, we're going to send you MAPS aesthetic and trade the volume. That'll be your best bet. Are you in our forum or no? No. No. I would love to be. All right. Doug's going to put you in our forum and then we'll keep you up. That's where you can tag me once a week and I'll keep reminding you. Oh, awesome. Thank you. I need it. All right. You got it. Thanks for calling in. Thank you guys. You have a good day. You have a good one. Thanks you too. Bye. Listen, I am glad we record these because if you're watching this on YouTube, okay, we're not exaggerating. When she was first talking like, oh, I got another kid on the show. He's got a question about exercise. And I looked up 42 years old like this. There's a typo. There's no way. Andrew will be able to add the photos that she sent us to, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bro, her upper body is badass. Yeah. She's got one of those. She's got that. She's definitely got the like competitor type genes. I mean, if that's two years of lifting and that's what her upper body looks like. And not like, not trying to get that. I'm sure she's super hard about her lower body. I'm sure it looks pretty good already. I get that. Like wants to like balance out. Match it yet. So I had it. So my, actually my very first client that I got ready for a show, this was her, this was her issue. She had great upper butt, like great shoulders and arms and, but her legs, she had cellulite on the back of her hamstring. She had issues. She just, her legs did not look it. So that was a main focus for us. So I get it that like, at first I thought she was just like, overall she was not happy with her physique. And I'm like, you got to be crazy. But I get, I understand that. Yeah. The whole balance thing. Especially when you're that well-developed in one area, it's not hard to be unbalanced. And when you're that, what's cool is that when you're that well-developed in upper body, you can really lay off of it. She could do, she could do very little. Very, very minimal of that. And that's how I would, that's basically, if I was coaching her, what we would do is we would scale back on the amount of upper body days down to one or two. Exactly. You know, and then trade it, trade it in for more hamstring and glute bridges and more work like that. In addition to her foundational days and aesthetic. And then just based off of what we see happening, we may even peel back more. I might skip every other week with her, if her upper body still feels that dominant, she doesn't like it. But I mean, I, she looks incredible, man. 42. Our next caller is Steve from California. Steve, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, thanks for having me. Big fan of the show. Thank you. And I appreciate everything you guys do. And before I get into my question, I just want to give you guys some background. So I started lifting consistently last May and I was trying to do a body recomb. So I was in a calorie deficit and lifting. And in the beginning, I went to the gym three or four times a week. And eventually that turned into five to six times a week. And I'd always take my sets to failure. And everything was fine until a couple of months ago when I started noticing I wasn't able to lift as heavy and my performance started to decline. And then I started having trouble sleeping. So it started with just waking up early, like around five. That wasn't too bad. But now it's like I'm waking up multiple times a night. Just like tossing and turning. It's like a battle. And a month ago I changed my gym routine. So I took the D-load week. And since then I've been going three times a week. And I'm also reverse dieting. But I'm still having trouble sleeping. So my question is, do you guys think I'm overtraining? And should I take like a week or two off? And I could just use any advice. Yeah. So you were overtraining pretty hard. And it takes longer than a week to come out of that. So I would do, yeah, I would do like three or four weeks of D-load workouts. So almost a month. Where really you're focusing on mobility. You're focusing on getting a little bit of a pump. You're just kind of remaining active. And then when you get back at it, do not train failure all the time. Failure can be effective, but it has to be programmed appropriately. And even then, I would save it for more advanced lifters anyway. I say after three, four weeks of letting your body recover, I would do like MAPS and Ebola. That would be the program I'd put you on. Do you have that program? No, I don't. That would be the program I'd put you on, Steve. You don't like MAPS 15, right? Okay. I mean, yeah, we could totally do MAPS 15 as well. I mean, either one would be great. But I mean, I think, what do you guys think? I think he needs like a few weeks of like... Well, yeah. Well, I think with MAPS 15, he's going to be kind of forced to that. You're only doing two exercises a day. Oh, in terms of the D-load part? Yeah, D-load. That's a great, that's a great... For a month at least. Yeah, yeah, that's great. So go ahead, Adam. Yeah, no, I was just thinking to switch to that and just switch that program. That will naturally bring down the volume from what he's currently doing. And I think that program is a great program anyways. Two exercises a day. Two exercises a day and don't train to failure. I think that's going to be enough to scale back on his body. That'll give him some good recovery. So, Steve, so in other words, we'll send you MAPS 15, follow that program as it's laid out. When you're done with that, then go to MAPS Anabolic. Yeah. And you'll be set. I like that. Okay. How long have you been reverse dieting too? Have you just really started to increase your calories? It's been about a month and the scale is still the same. Oh, that's good. So I'm meeting around maintenance right now. But before I was doing like maybe like 2,000, like 2,100 maybe calories, but now I'm like at 26. Oh, okay. It's not too bad. Yeah, no. No, it's good. Yeah. And you said your sleep is still kind of like if he or is there like, what's your last meal during the day? Just I'm curious if that's a problem at all. Yeah. I'm doing like intermittent fasting too. So I break my fast at 11 and then my last meal is around six. Okay. So you're in that window. I think you should eat something in the morning because you're over trained and you're kind of recovering. Doesn't have to be a big meal, but have like a protein meal in the morning. So like maybe some eggs, something like that. Or creatures of habit. Yeah. Or yeah, exactly. Creatures of habits got a really good oatmeal with some protein in it. But you know, have like a protein meal. I wouldn't do it long fast right now because you're coming out of a hole. Okay. And then so I should probably just keep it like for like four to six weeks then. Yeah. Map 15 will be the perfect program during that time. Yeah. Map 15 and just don't be trying to hit PRs, stay off the train of failure. Yeah. Follow-ups laid out. That'll do the work for you. That with your reverse dieting, the advice Sal's given you to, I wouldn't be doing any sort of fasting right now. Eat when you're hungry, make good healthy choices, and then see how you feel after that. Because like the weird thing is too, like I guess my body's gone used to intermittent fasting too. So like I just don't feel like hungry. Like I'm just, you know, like the only time I really feel hungry weirdly is like in the morning, like when I wake up at three in the morning. So like that's the only time. Eat a small bowl of oatmeal. Watch what happens. Yeah. Small bowl of oatmeal in the morning. You see little breakfasts? Yeah. Breakfasts. With some protein. I like to see breakfasts. What do you have it? Yeah. It's like in breakfasts. Yeah. That'll help for sure stimulate the appetite. Yeah. I was just coming from that by the way too. I was, I had skipped breakfast. I wasn't eating till two o'clock in the afternoon for quite some time. I creatures of habit at oatmeal because I wasn't hungry. So I'm like, let me get something light and easy. Within like literally a week, I've told these guys I'm like starving now in the morning. What's the, what's the link for that? Does anybody, Doug, do you know what the link is for creatures of habit? Boy, let me look it up. I think it's creaturesofhabit.comforge slash mind pump, but I'll double check. Well, just so our audience knows, because I answer this question all the time, anytime we talk about a product that we're partnered with or affiliated with, if you Google mind pump partners, you find all the products, all the discount codes. I know all the discount codes. Yeah. So it is creaturesofhabit.comforge slash mind pump and creatures is spelled with a K. Yeah. That's a good first meal. All right, Steve. And we'll send you maps15 and mapsanabolic, okay? All right. Appreciate you guys. Thank you, brother. You got a good one. Thanks for calling. Yeah, that's, that's the thing with failure, with trained failure is that you will fry yourself so hard so fast and then getting out of it is just, it sucks. So I mean, he did, what do you do five weeks of that? Or, or yeah, a few weeks of that, five to six weeks a week. It's addictive because of the initial results that you experience with that and like how strong you feel. But yeah, it, it diminishes. Yeah. If you program it right, you can really reap the benefits and mitigate some of the negatives, but most people actually stay ahead of it. That's it. I wonder how long you've been listening to the show. It's like something we've been talking about for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Our next caller is Jerry from Nevada. Jerry, what's happening? How can we help you? Guys, how you doing? Appreciate what you do. Appreciate your show. Thank you. Question is as follows. Sal, I heard you on a podcast a while back earlier this year. You know, the story, you know, your whole story on fitness, nutrition and how it's evolved over the years. Basically 45 years old, I have a wife and four kids. Been coaching the NFL for the last 10 years and exercising nutrition have always been important to me. Due to the demands of the job, gets a little crazy during the season. My nutrition, my sleep suffered tremendously. I would say that exercise, or the exercise portion, I'm able to fit in or squeeze in, you know, a little bit. I do about, I'd say in the off season, about six days a week during the season, about four to five. I'd say I go through this cycle where during the season, everything suffers. I put on about 10 pounds of bad weight in the off season. I end up really basically getting really strict to take it off, which is good. But then I just follow this vicious cycle. Basically, what kind of program do you recommend maps program for me? And is there one that I could do during the season and out of the season that might be a little different or more beneficial? Yeah. Maps 15 during the season. Maps 15 during the season and then off season, I'd do something like anabolic. So, Jared, you obviously know, you obviously know fitness at a much higher level than most people. Have you experimented with yourself with like, you know, small, frequent workouts versus longer, less frequent workouts? In other words, instead of doing like an hour workout today, I did like three 20 minute workouts. That's one example. Have you tried experimenting that with yourself? I haven't done that like throughout the course of a day. I've done like smaller hit workouts at times just to fit one in maybe for 20 minutes, but I haven't like split it up. I'm telling you, so someone like you, this is that you really appreciate. Yeah. Someone like you, this is I think you'll like this. So you can split up workouts in many different ways, but it's really remarkable. And I've been talking about this on our podcast for a little while, where instead of doing like a one one hour workout, which is traditionally what I'll do, it just works best on my schedule, because then I can block off that workout, go to work, do my thing. If I have a day where I, this is available, and I haven't done this for convenience, although I can see how this can help with convenience as well. I did this for performance, where I'll take my hour workout and I'll do three 20 minute workouts, and my body just responds phenomenally. Now I've done this with clients in the past as well. I did it for them for convenience. It wasn't for performance. And all of them got better results. So it's, it's, I don't quite know what's occurring in the body, but if you look at old Soviet era studies on Olympic weightlifting, they experimented quite a bit with these kind of all day short workouts, and they also saw some pretty incredible performance effects. So maybe do something like that, where you have like a suspension trainer available or bands or body weight, and you're like, look, I don't have an hour to do my workout, but I know I could do like three or four 10 minute workouts, and they're not hit. It's not like I'm going and like beating the crap out of myself for 10 minutes. So I'm not trying to make up for the afford for it with intensity. I'm literally doing like, you know, three sets of a strength training exercise, rather than doing 10 sets of different exercises and just spreading it out throughout the whole day. And man, the, the result, it's pretty remarkable. I would love someone like you to do this because of your expertise to get some feedback. If it's feasible to do that, I mean, I mean, definitely not going to be doing that in the season. He's not going to have the time to do that in the season. In the off season, he could potentially do that. Well, splitting it up with splitting up, splitting it up during the season. Look at it also. He's got he, these are varieties that he, he gravitates towards hit interval, CrossFit, Peloton, P90X. Yeah. So I would recommend Maps 15 as like your staple program during the season. Off season, I would run an anabolic type of program. Well, let me ask you this, would it be easier for you when you're busy to do like, like instead of one 45 minute workout, three 15 minute workouts or 10 minute workouts? Or is that, is that, does it matter? Is it either? I think that's, I think that's feasible during the season. Like right now in the off season, we're still busy, but not nearly as busy during the season. So I could do the 45 minute to an hour workout in the morning and all that. During the season, I think it'd probably be something worth trying. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I might be able to get, it might only be two 15 minute segments, but it's better than none. Yeah. And then Maps 15 will give you a little bit of a layout for what that would look like. There's two versions, one's with the barbell and one's with the suspension trainer. So the barbell version is what we call the advanced version, the suspension trainer one, that's the version that's kind of for everybody. So you can see the layout and kind of see how it works, follow it as laid out or modify it because you obviously know what you're doing and kind of, you know, follow that format and see how your body responds. But I think it's pretty remarkable how, I had a PR and deadlifts training this way at 44 years old. And I didn't expect that to happen, you know, doing these kind of micro workouts. It's pretty, it's pretty wild. Sure. I think in the off season, that's fine. In season, for kids, NFL, travel, stress, I'm not pushing you like that. I'm going to train you. I'm going to 20 minutes, 20 minutes a day. And that's, that's all you need, not hit, not, not high intensity, moving like crazy. Two good barbell movements that's going to pack on muscle, mitigate the stress. In season, you got a lot on your plate already. And that all the nutrition in and yeah, go in that direction. Yeah. So then strength. That's the hard part. I mean, I would say it starts with a lack of sleep, probably. And that leads to bad nutrition in that, you know. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you don't need more. That's not what you need right now. That's what you do is you balance it out in the end season. Off season, when you have a little bit more flexibility, then we get after the hour workouts or do the splitting a workout up two or three times in a day, like Sal's saying. But no, I would not, I would not let you do that in season. I don't, I don't think that's a good idea at all. But yeah, master's seems great for that. Because it's a consistency thing. So at least you're getting that frequency. So you're still getting stimulation, you get that muscle signal. And so it's really remarkable, like how little you have to do to be able to keep progress going forward. Doug, you sent them over maps 15 and send them maps anabolic also. And then Jerry, when is it when does it start to ramp up? Because obviously it gets going a little bit earlier for you guys to get prepared. We usually like end of July, like 20th or 22nd, something like that. And that's when we start training camp. So. Okay. Friday night is not too bad. So right now, so right now you do have the time to run anabolic, which is what I'd run right now to get you ready for when the season starts to happen, when the season kicks in, then I'd switch over to maps 15. Okay. Great. Yep. You got it, man. I appreciate it, guys. Thanks so much. Yeah. We appreciate the support. Thank you. No problem. Give up good work. All right, Jack. All right. That's cool when you get some of his caliber calling us. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I love it. But you know, here's the thing with the smaller workouts is not to push him, not to push himself, but to break up the day. It helps with nutrition because he keeps a fitness on your mind. And it's less demanding on the body, not more demanding. It's less demanding. So my point with that was if he's thinking to himself, oh, okay, I think I'm going to do a, I think I'm going to do a hard 30 minute workout today. I bet you three, 10 minute workouts, you know, obviously would probably be easier on his body than the full 30 minute workout. And also it sounds like based off what he said with his hit workouts is he's making up for it with intensity, which I get. But that's where people screw up a little bit. I had four kids, a profession like the NFL, getting to access to weights multiple times in the day, two or three times. No, not the weights. Are you in a high interruptive meeting? No, well, no, it would be, it would be body weight, band. I mean, you can't do that. You can't do that right now. Like a good, totally good. 10 minutes, 10 minutes at a time. Absolutely. Three, well, now you're saying 10. You were originally saying three 20 minute workouts. If I, if you're you, it depends on the time, like the total time, right? It could be three, five minutes. It could be my point with it is, is being active throughout the day tends to work out better than picking one block. It sounds like he was leaning a bit on the intensity of the cardiovascular to kind of make up for that energy exchange. And I think that if he just realizes he can stick with strength training, but like less and have it consistent, he's going to get much further than he would with this like spinning wheel approach. One 15 to 20 minute workout a day for a guy. That would be plenty. Is, yeah, for, especially like with his background. Yeah, bro, the NFL, the stress level that these guys travel in and the well, just the interrupted meetings like constantly, like he's just going to have his hands full. Yeah, I forgot that the Raiders were in Nevada and in Vegas. Yeah, because I saw Nevada and I was like, oh, yeah, have you guys seen that, that stadium? Yeah, it's remarkable. I haven't been in the stadium. I haven't been inside. I want to go inside. You just got Jimmy G. So yeah, I'm going to, I guess I'm about to pay maybe Jerry will hear this and shoot us some tickets. We'll evaluate your progress in person. Our CPA, our marketing teams there. So maybe we'll come fly over there and see the Raiders play. An animal training person. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com. We got a bunch of free guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, you can find me at Mind Pump Salon. You can find Adam at Mind Pump Adam. Today, we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work. Yeah, it was for me. It was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.