 Get myself Angela always looks so well composed. Yeah That's because I think I'm about 28 in that photo Oh, yeah, I just love your hair. So awesome. Thank you What about mine Meg hand out the compliments John John wants someone to run. I love your hair Both of them Sorry I'm gonna get some water and try to You do have the luxury John of never having a bad hair day That's true. Yes Not everyone can say that So we're waiting for John McCabe is not gonna make it Liz and John Page I'm here. This is here. Oh, you are Liz. Hi You don't pay there's John to great So Liz are you here just on phone because there's no photo for you? I know that's because I still have my camera covered That's all right, all right, you can put a cool picture up Like I think I have Elizabeth on a minus. No, I don't have Elizabeth. What usually I have a Yeah, it says her name Before the meeting actually starts of the Taping has started already. Thanks to Angela Pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General law chapter 30 a section 18 this meeting of the participatory budgeting Commission Is being conducted by a remote participation? So I am because of that Required to have a roll call. So I'll say everyone's name and you say that you're here Uh, Kathy Shane here Liz Larson here Holly Bowser. Yeah John Fenske here John Page Here and I know that John McCabe is not here He's not able to make the meeting something came up at the last minute and make gauge here Um, I want to encourage people to mute Unmute mute when you're not speaking up to your somewhere where you have a lot of background noise. It makes it easier The meeting is being recorded to the web And this is allows for people to see it later who aren't here now or for any of us for example a person who's doing minutes to Go back and look at something that they didn't capture in their notes So I'm going to call a meeting to order It is 333 first of all I wanted to um Angela can't stay for the whole meeting And she's not able to take minutes and she's done more than her duty. So we need a minute take her Is there anybody who's up for that this time? I can do it John you're an angel. Thank you. Thank you John and uh, I will Uh, please if I any of us can help you let us know Uh, Angela's detailed minutes don't have to be the model Um, although it's extremely helpful to have such a good Minute taking I want to get I've asked her to stick around for the minutes And then Angela is going to get off the phone because she has a very busy afternoon Let's take a look at the agenda Just just I always think it's good to everybody buys into what the agenda is to make sure that I captured what people want and Uh, everybody has equal Control over the agenda now, of course, I can't here it is right in front of me any comments on the agenda I'd like to add one thing under topics not reasonably identified 24 hours before the meeting Which is to look at the next meeting after the next one our next meeting is november 12th And um, I know some of us are busier than others and it's helpful to have At least one more meeting um On the calendar, so we'll I'm adding that if that's okay anything else anyone wants to add or shift The priority for this meeting the goals are to discuss uh an amend if If that's appropriate the second draft consensus memo and I think we should call it consensus outline Uh, or whatever Kathy suggested calling it an outline. I think that's a great idea Any other comments on the agenda? So uh less I wanted to Ask angela to stick around just for the going over the minutes to thank you For amazing minutes, and you're not actually officially on our committee, but you've done it. I don't know two or three times. So thank you Um, does anybody have any Reviewing the minutes cannot be a time to Obviously correct them if you need to It's also a time to draw attention to something that you want uh people to Remember that we said um Are there any any comments on the minutes? I really appreciated angela putting the link for the video at the top I think that's a real good addition to the minutes People agree So that people who want to go back and view it can easily find where that is that was excellent So meg if I can just interject um normally our Protocol is to thank people at the end of their term of service, but having been to several of your meetings I just wanted to take an opportunity and say thank you all um your midstream and I know it seems like You know the end is in sight, but just thank you so much for all of your hard work And um, I appreciate the time and the energy and the thoughtful responses So it's been a pleasure sitting with you, and I'm sorry. I can't stick around this afternoon But thanks again for all of your efforts. Yeah, well, thank you Anybody want to comment before angela gets off? I actually have a question for angela since you have initiated this meeting Are we going to be able to share screens? I think when we get to discussing the outline It would be really helpful if we could share screen on that so I think she shifted the host to me Okay, good and since you're all panelists. I believe you have that ability right to share screen Okay, good before angela gets off. I wanted to ask Uh, again, this is not a correction of the minutes but something that was said that I thought was a good idea on page two number five The bullets chain suggested the slideshow be shared with the council and then We all suggested that it um be on amherst media. Has any has that happened? Do we know? Or is it scheduled I don't think it's something that I've reached out to amherst media Yeah, do I think maybe we would save it and have them show it as part of a council meeting Okay, I just thought it was a great. We all we all thought that was a good idea Um And I wanted to note your excellent capturing on page three Uh, sort of in the middle a process question about how we can work on the draft while, um Adhering to open meeting law by working in pairs. I thought that was a A really important point and we just demonstrated that with this uh edits that we did with to the consensus outline Um Any other comments? The things you want to note that we said that were important Okay, so I'm going to call unfortunately. I think we have to do by names For approval of the minutes. Is there an emotion to approve the minutes? I move we approve the minutes from October 1st Colleen moves to approve a second I second John seconds Uh, all I guess I do I have to call everybody's name are Okay, Kathy Shane Yes John Bensky Yes John Page Yes Liz Larson Colleen Bowser Yes So in my gauge. Yes, so it's a unanimous approval of the minutes So, um Kathy can we hand it over to you to uh take us through the memo for the outline? And I guess I want to first of all thank Almost everybody for contributing to this in some way, but particularly John and Kathy But John Fensky also made a contribution. I did and John Page did so Go team. So can Kathy can we hand this over to you? Sure, um So I have a question on the handout do do how do people Well, first, I'll explain what you're seeing in this version to um John Page went through as he promised he would um to give us more of a Introduction, you know What got us to this point as well as to outline what the goals are and to posit the Three things we're laying out as three strategies to note that they're complementary They're not meant to be one versus the other but they support they're mutually supportive With a focus on one and then John Fensky and John McKay both sent me To varying extents either new words to just drop in or notes that I then Got permission to turn into bullets. Um Meg also sent me a section Uh as she had said to us she would on schools and I thought we should before we put it into this We should talk about it more Um, I'm I'm thinking of this as kind of a working outline because it's you use the word consensus document Meg, I really think you know at some point will It will be a consensus document. Hopefully that we're all endorsing But I think what we're trying to do is each item We should focus on as we put it into this document. Are we really all in agreement on this? Is there any You know, so before putting it in I think it's important to have Some level of discussion, you know, not just you know, it's not a voting So I just held that one piece out. So what you have Kathy could I interrupt? I also sent you a A somewhat modest rewrite of the pilot part and there was a A sentence that I felt was an important addition Okay. Well, I'm what I'm about to ask is how do people how would people like to go through this? We could start with the new piece that Meg sent and put it up on the screen and have a discussion about it Because it is not in the longer document and I think that to me that might make sense. Um I when Meg sent it to me, I sent her a list of questions I had And I still you know, I will look at the rewrite, but you know questions before I thought it would be That I thought it would be better to discuss as a group, you know So we had no discussion about my questions. I just Sent questions. Yeah, Liz Can I suggest that first we put the document that you're talking about up on the screen? So we're all making sure we're looking at the same version of it Okay, and then for me when I printed it out, I hope I printed out the one we're going to be talking about um, I just went through it page by page and I think in some ways it would be easier to just go through it page by page then to by sections which we then will plug in to different things so Okay, so it's already organized and it's in an organized way And I think it would help structure our conversation if we go through it page by page I I think that's fine. And I guess like one of my questions Meg just put it up in track changes Do you want to see it that way? Um, I want to see it. I think I sent a clean version and also I would prefer it if we could send the cleaner version of it Okay, well, you won't see the changes. So that's okay I can do that. But the clean version is after these track changes This included yeah, is people would rather see the clean version I think it's easier. You know people can go Sure I mean, you know particularly the reason I thought clean made sense was john moved Whole sections around so it looks like there was a lot of writing on it in some instances where it really was just Moving a whole paragraph to another place I'm just getting it here now Can I also suggest that whoever is doing the if only Meg can share screen? If we're going to be making changes in it Do we want the person who's sharing the screen to be making those changes? Because I I can I can share the screen and do it right now either way the share screen Yeah, I'll share it and I'll I'm just trying to either any of us can share the screen Liz But let's have I'm one person do it Kathy you want to do it Just john a question for Kathy Is the idea that Meg's separate section on schools is Conceptually it's like this like the three parts a b and c and there'll be a fourth part Because just tell me how does how does her document relate to your draft document? Okay, she what the the way Meg sent it in Um, is that we talk in the first section of strategy a About that this could start with a pilot. So she was providing an idea for a pilot So it wouldn't be a new section, but just here's a different kind of pilot we could be thinking about Um, so it would be dropped into that rather than a whole but we can come back to that structurally I think just for the sake of I can show it to you if you want but Look when we get to it. Let's do it then. Okay. Let me figure out how I share a screen What I decided was I'm going to get That it was instead of a separate section It was a variation on the pilot project. Is my screen showing now to everyone? Yes. Okay yes, so it would drop into the Strategy a goes through using these various sources and said we could start with a pilot And talks a little bit about what the pilot might look like and Meg was going to drop it into that section Okay, so I have it The pilot section some okay at this point. I have it on the screen good On page one So the very first thing way down at the bottom of page one in the first footnote. My name is wrong Okay Okay I'm wrong. Wow. It's a whole different name Yes No, it's all it is larson, but it's not lisa. Yeah. No, I got it I I have a question about um in the executive summary point b We have right now. We have including non binding referendums Uh other than an override. Is there such a thing as a binding referendum for towns and cities? Yeah, yes Yeah, so this is something john John put in john page put in um, I think yeah, I think I put in non binding question mark. Um with the Uh, not as a final Not as a final thing, but just as a question when we say referendums. Do we mean Binding as an as like you said john overrides or do we mean? So I I what I would recommend is I would recommend adding opinion surveys And striking non binding in other words, it would read including opinion surveys and referendums How do we feel about referenda referenda? I like that we too I support what john just said about the opinion surveys Especially because they're cheaper While we're on item b. I just this is just a clarification thing. I devise more effective ways To what of what? Oh, okay right to uh Get public input. Okay No, that's that's at the end to solicit public priorities. That's what it is Okay, so okay to solicit public priorities to solicit Public priorities, I agree Liz. It's the sentence structure is horrible Yeah, and then at the end you do and I'm removing this part. Yes I have to say capy most of the notes. Uh, I've got here are more like editorial and proofreading than content So the other thing is up where it says each represents a strategy to augment participation Um, I would like to add current participation because we do have a little bit So what we're really trying to do is get more people to participate done Great, and as you can see it's it's although this is clean. Um, as I type these in they're going in and track changes So we can see what we've done Good and final sex uh sentence. We then briefly discuss thoughts on actions on ideas for actions on oh That's never mind. It's already been fixed Um, I'll just note that at least for my additions. I know I tried to capture concepts But I did not review for how they fit grammatically or Definitely viewed this as a draft. So I know we'll probably get to that in a minute and realize that there's probably things to change in One suggestion I have for this. I mean we can go through this however people want is um At the point we're on What does mandy call them scrivener and I always will misspell that particular term but where it's typos We've got the wrong verb tense Something like the the subject of the sentence is at the end. So it's a german construction and we'd rather have it Know what we're talking about at the beginning It might be, you know, if we're a point that we're really doing that kind of edit someone could go through it Really carefully? So that we don't have to have a six person do that and You know, we can decide whenever we want to do that. I think these comments are great. So It's what editors used to do to me where they couldn't stand how many often I use the same word for example You know vary the word word But so where is there anything more on page one? Well, um, I don't know. Maybe we just covered this but that last sentence above background it repeats It's got thoughts on actions and ideas for actions on So it should read to discuss thoughts on Ideas around strategies being seen something like that Or thoughts on actions for strategies being seen so show me what exactly where it is under background Just above background. Okay, we then briefly discuss Oh, I see. There are too many words actions. Yeah, it's got actions as repeated Something like that action actions and ideas I can't get it to not And you're doing great No, no, I'm just uh, the capkey was stuck on Oh Here we go Okay, one other very minor thing down where In the footnote, we've got uh, John Page deserves a close parentheses after Yeah, not so with that. We're all vice chairs. Okay You know and this we can we can do this kind of cleaning up later also But john nicely plunked in a whole chart showing all of us later So we can decide whether we want to keep this in note or not at some point You know, I'm I I I did it Yeah, okay So just one note on um the next sections john is uh put in um a citation to a document that Mandy Joe had drafted and we did get a copy of that So I think if we figure out a way that we can place it somewhere we can do a hot link to it um the way you and then Mandy's document I noticed Refers to gaventa and various types of things. I personally Um want to know the source notes on things when they're referenced that much So I'm assuming that Mandy's documents actually has The full citation of each of those so we can we can do something later to just I don't want to put them all in arm our memo But we can do see, you know See hot link also for the sources cited, you know, if that's true about her document It's happy I have I have her original document because she wrote it for the charter commission And I'm happy to send it to everyone to look at to see the citation. I think you know, Meg I think you provide you gave that to us. Oh good. I think that was one of the earlier touch files It's not so much. I wanted to see it I just wanted to have it someplace that if we do a hot link to it the person reading this can find it Okay, do you want me to check with her? um, well if it's Let's let's let me I can rephrase this a little bit if we make it part of our packet For today if you have holly posted The hot link can be directly to our packet good So we won't have to try to figure out where it currently resides. We can just Include it good. So I wanted to say something about the substance of this Okay, um I think um, there are some ideas in here About meaningful participation that we haven't discussed as fully as I would like particularly On the second paragraph the the uh highlighting decision making In terms of participation Um, so I'll just draw attention to that as something we might want to talk about these ideas um That are in this section I guess um My I think that would be good And I think if we are not going to propose anything that specifically addresses them We could say something that this was a very rich memo What we're proposing only addresses some not all you know, we can come back to it that we haven't done everything that was outlined here um, we but also to I think Even if we can envision recommending a program that actually has resident decision making It doesn't mean we don't hold that up as a standard Or a component of meaningful participation I think let's maybe make that a topic for the next meeting because the place is the places that have Participatory budget what I seen them done is carve out a very small piece of their budget And allow citizens to make some decisions over those so none of them invited them in For the full, you know help us decide every piece. So I I think we should be talking about it. Um Um, More fully right. I'm just I'm not asked that's all I'm asking. I'm suggesting we talk about it again And I've put it as a note for our next meeting. Okay, and I certainly don't think residents can make decisions about everything It's just we them encouraging us to discuss um, what we think about Decision making as an element of some kind of participation Okay Related to that. Um, I think I This is a lot from mandy joe's actually quite linked the memo, but I was trying to set the stage and I think meg you might be able to add Very well to it is how do we set the stage that the part of participatory budgeting Was that during the charter commission's work trying to find ways for The public to Be involved in decision-making. So I don't know if I transitioned that but I was trying to make it broad and then narrow it down to And we are pbc and here's what we researched and found So I think it might need a little more Shaping but that was kind of the idea from general to and one of those strategies is participatory budgeting I thought you did it well Yeah, I it made me want to join the committee that would be studying this john No, I thought about my main point is I'm happy to see it here And you did it really well, and I'm just we all if everyone agrees we'll dig into this a little at our next meeting this topic Sounds good Any any other comments on this before we Know now the only the only thing I thought of when I saw this a nice little chart dropped in Is holly is in fact our town Finance director designee. Yep So it yet, you know, you are you are the finance director designee So we we appointed she's called ex officio here. So I've been just wondering if we should just say Finance, you know designee for finance or something, you know, it makes it look like We're missing one of the people that the charter said should be on it. Right So I can type right into this. What do we what what are you're the finance? the Finance designee Actually, can we put that over where you you've got kathy comma town counselor. Can it be holly comma? Yeah, I think the date should just be the date as well and then if you wanted to Put her title by her name. Oh got it There's often ex officio means not voting Yeah, yeah, that's why right, which is what I understood in the beginning, but it's not We're an equal voter Decision maker. Okay. So you were appointed whenever we'll find that date, right? Probably right at the beginning I haven't been working on this for close to a millennium and a half No, this is just this is just the point None of us John makes it clear that well Kind of appointed, but we didn't meet until september, right? Right, but no, there's a one missing in his date of 2019. That's what he's saying Ah There we go an old person john got it Okay Fixed If we shall we keep going yep, but no on my john fensky's date Yeah, and why am I june 3rd? How come I showed up? I don't remember doing anything. I didn't do anything to this so um, this is downloaded I believe from the town's website so it could be that there's There typos there's typos in there. It's possible that I believe this came from the town's website, right john It did so actually if we if we notice something we can we should mark it down Question mark because you couldn't have been appointed before the rest of us were right I'm sure it was the same day at the same time I remember my interview was right after yours john because I you came out and I went in I'm just going to put a question mark so we can come back to it and find it out How are we going to find out if it's just a mistake? Well a letter went out um someone will someone will know Um, meaning you know angela sends out can review those yep, you know, it's it's I'm happy to appoint you We all got an appointment letter You want me to ask angela? Sure if you want to sure might as well Have an answer okay And we could also make this super simple and just delete that column. I think yeah Yeah, I don't think that the dates are relevant to really There so I I'm fine with that as well Okay, I will I will come back and delete delete it if you watch me try to delete this right now It might make a mess of it so formatting. Yeah, we'll not ask angela. Okay It will let me delete column delete column Okay, go it's gone Yeah, and then I think that if you're going to put that chart in there that you can get rid of the footnote on page one I don't think it needs to be on both pages. It's right somewhat redundant, but one way or the other. I'm fine Okay, so we'll make that decision after we take another look at it So if you're going to do that then you should put the um make gage as chair and john page as vice chair on this chart Yeah, oh so good and then do that. I know they're nitpicky. I'm sorry That's what we're doing And I'm going to just make a note. I'm going to vice chair Um, I'll come back and do meg's name first. So it says chair vice chair, you know And then delete the other thing Okie dokes Okay, hold it. I have a point about what is participatory budgeting. This is just kind of a marker for when we get to section b which came out of My my notes on this subject. It's that um, I have no disagreement. I mean, this is exactly what participatory budgeting looks like in the The the towns we've talked to and it's the way the participatory budgeting project defines it However, decide how to spend real power over real money Um is not exactly what's going on when you survey or have a non binding referendum You're what you're doing there. I think is you're giving the elected representatives Better information essentially So it's just just to flag it. I'm not saying I disagree with this I'm just saying if we stick with this strictly then part b really shouldn't be part of this project So maybe um, I I struggled with this John nicely dropped this in and I wanted to I didn't want to change too many words. Um The the process formally known as participatory budgeting defines it the following But there are other ways to solicit participation as so I had the formal process known as so it might be we want to qualify it If we want to keep strategy b in You know, this is one specific way of participating. There are others of getting more and we um have proposals around them so we could have a We could have a um No drop in a sentence some here Because I I agree with you the others aren't don't meet This kind of definition But Kathy yep, it seems though that this section with the reference to The his you know puerto or leg re is more about what participatory budgeting typically means, you know when the Uh, we can separate. I mean, we're not proposing this because of All the discussions that we've had about needing to pull back from because of providence I know I'm agreeing with you Meg. So I just think this needs a it says what is it? And then we give this formal definition that is what when you take when you go to the project and you get projects We are not proposing something that looks just like this. So I think we just need to be um Find a transition sentence that acknowledges that sure. I think it's important to leave this in because we Started the conversation from this point and I think it's important To have the starting point and say this is what it was and this is how we've developed out of where we started Right to to that point. I think I missed a critical sentence which I was hoping to put in which is The participatory budgeting project, which is an organization defines participatory budgeting as and then I um at the very beginning We talked about how do we define participatory budgeting? And so I think we need a sentence that said The Amherst participatory budgeting commissioners Expanded this to mean and maybe a one sentence Um, if we can capture in that But and the thing is you could also under this word says participatory budgeting project that may be confusing if people don't know This is a national organization It's not us. This is a this is a that there's is a national that we could put a phrase in there the national participatory budgeting project that um advises municipalities Defines it this way so that it isn't confusing that will Somebody might think that's us Right, you know john has he's put this in as a hot link. So if you click on the The blue you'll get there, but I see what you're saying may be national So, you know, this is and it also uh gives a Note that this is not something we cooked up ourselves Okay The national initiative organization Okay, we're initiative whatever Because I'm happy to You know that promotes participatory budgeting comma defines it colon We can work on that. Oh Okay, and then then john your sentence would go um We what was lisa we started with this definition You need to initial these things And then you want to put before we do something to methods We define would you put it right at the end of this then? Maybe right at the end that you know that the amherst Sentences and we come up with some Okay, you know, hopefully one sentence, but maybe more that captures What we're thinking about now All right. Yeah, how how we built on it. Let's keep it positive. We're building on this Right, right On this foundation That's literally a foundation Maybe this is one of the places where we introduce COVID No place later No, I'll just say pb for now Built on this fashion and developed Our own definition Interpretation our own interpret our own interpretation Include The three strategies Discussed For now, okay We can yeah Now I'm going to yellow shade it. So this is our rough draft of saying something here So I think the spirit of this should be that we're not necessarily Perfecting our words. We're noting the places where we want to perfect our words. Yep There's nothing more horrendous than six people editing something the same time For this next section I have a question kind of for all of us which is Do we want this to be a memo on What we learned or do we want it to be a report because I started to find myself writing a Very simple science report with background methods conclusions and Further research But I don't know Which we felt like we wanted to produce and send to the council Well, I like I liked what you did and I just thought the word method is not quite right. It's you know history of You know our process history of of what we've done or history of how we Conducted ourselves There's definitely pieces missing here that we need to add to This section Which actually will eventually get to our calendar later, but I don't want to just derail our current focus I do think process is a better description for it, but I I wish I could say let's let's do There I think a hybrid of what you've come up with the report slash memo it's So we do want people to know that we did do diligence um We did it in a logical way Wasn't just going into a room and throwing stuff up on a wall so it sticks um But the meat of the matter is Here's what we found out right Rather than here's how we found it out. We want to really get more to here's what we found out right And excuse me in the second paragraph Greensboro is misspelled. It's like Marlboro without the ug at the end I mean Marlboro in mass not not the cigarette. Yeah, the cigarette is is like that too, I guess it is Do you know that there are actually is it marlboro? I believe there's actually two marlboro's in massachusetts One with the ogh and one with just the oh really Are there's some city or some town in massachusetts that has two with the same name I like that Seen west boroughs fell in both ways I've seen adelboros fell in both ways So did we did we Directly talk to anyone beyond cambridge in greensboro. I know I don't remember talking to cambridge. I don't remember talking to cambridge either No, we didn't talk to John and I talked with a couple of groups and reported back to you like greensboro right and um I can look at my notes, but we talked to several others. We decided Not to talk to cambridge because people felt they were so big I I think we would have learned something but we didn't have that conversation because people felt they were the whole scale was so different And we'll put that we'll just come back and do this. So we did well or tell me now. Which was the count canadian town name? um Deep i Yeah, df And i'll look up the other ones kathy. I just uh Okay Because john and I talked to at least to df But I think it's important that if we are going to include who we talk to that the greensboro and the one in canada were group Meetings the others were um Not everybody participated in those so We could just say members of our all or members of our commission With the follower or something Okay, yep. Okay. I'm just putting names to come You know And I wrote and I wrote up the kingston one. So that's the only reason one I can remember Yeah, kingston was one Right, but we didn't talk directly to kingston. We we were trying to and that didn't work. That was one of those Tech, yeah, but we still yeah, right. We have a writer So I So, um john wrote engaging stakeholders, you know, we will know what we actually this section is going to get revised once we Get to a more complete if we've done it We would say we then you know once we came up with ideas. We then talk to Whomever right Because we haven't done that yet. So I think it was right to just put it in yellow right Since your curse is right there. It was actually october 2020 that angela told you that's about the cpo It's october 1st, but it was still october It was I totally forgot that it's been a long month Almost over I really like to know what it is that we've got coming up. I'm so glad We've done that already. I just wrote well last time we took last time when we Revealed draft one We said To refine a little bit later about how we might do this. We're going to have to talk to somebody From community preservation act, you know, send a couple of us to literally talk to them the cdbg and Get paul's Thoughts and reactions to the capital Peace because we have to at least know that they they think we're completely crazy or they think there's A potential way to do something But so I put it then we met With them. You're right. Liz. I just said so we're going to do that John it said are we going to do it and I said well, we're gonna we said we're gonna do it So we're going to have to do it because we just it can't come as a shock to these entities that we're thinking about them And meg you've always said we're going to do something like a public forum, right? Yeah, I actually have it. Hopefully we're going to get to talk about our timeline at this meeting a little bit so that we can Start to see if we want to for example Brow stop the league of women voters or something like that I think in amherst to talk about participation and not have any form would be a little bit All right Just tell me what you want where you want me to go next just to carry on I think Anyone any comments on page two anybody? That was page three. We just did. Oh, right. Sorry My own So we have this then we had and then we threw out that we said something about the pandemic Excuse me in This paragraph that begins throughout. Yeah, there's an extra the in the third line after the word strategies Our strategies that we have developed The recommended strategies that we have developed. Thank you Also on page three We're now on page four page four In that going back to the throughout paragraph the last sentence has the word it's a little it's wordy Look to the future a foundation for the future for future actions I'm just I let's take it. I thought I should break that sentence up We also okay Yeah, then the word future is repeated Oh, this is page three. Oh well Yeah, good So right there since you're there Right above in the first sentence. It's I believe it should be imposed on Amherst Since we're there Yep So My feeling is that we should pull the pandemic out and not just have it as the second part of a paragraph about forums There's it I I did I it's now its own paragraph. Okay. Good. Sorry. I'm still looking at my okay. Sorry. I've got to look up Yeah, I you're right. Meg. I realized it was like a lead cent I just did a space and throughout starts its own new paragraph now, right because it's a big deal that It totally changes everything I think several of us made that comment at the last meeting I think it was three different times in the minutes. It was Somebody said that And the idea that we have a whole winner to get through is pretty horrendous, but we'll do it We could add a subtitle or something. Um, it might be a little unusual just a single paragraph, but yeah well, let's let's Once we get this draft done We may want to rearrange it so that it flows differently, but for now. I think that's a very tight paragraph so let's so conclusion um, my Question is the sentences says we recommend three strategies. Are we recommending three strategies or are we recommending a three pronged strategy? Oh, I like that. We should so no, I mean, this is my question for discussion I I have one strategy with three prongs or three different strategies on well, just um This is the first time I focused on this issue, but I like the idea of a unified strategy because I think of what we're doing as Trying to fulfill In a slightly expanded way the mandate from the charter commission, which is to enhance and increase citizen participation In the budget, yeah Right specifically with respect to the budget I like I like it a lot because well a conclusion We could say recommendations and we could just repeat we recommend a three pronged strategy to enhance participation in the amorce budget process I mean it repletes the lead line, but it's That's okay. Yeah But now now we have the word strategies in the In the title and strategy I'm gonna change this right now you know pronged I think you could just say that there and delete the first sentence Yeah Delete that first we recommend a three pronged strategy to enhance I just wanted to have a recommendation somewhere. So I'll just do it this way instead of conclusion Well, or the conclusion is the committee recommends a three pronged strategy blah blah I like having that the committee recommends. I like that language because it says that we all Work together okay the noble committee and it's the wrong typeface because someone had this is No up up up there. I would say conclusion the committee recommends a three pronged Oh conclusion It sort of fits with our you know background process conclusion. I mean I I like that That Kind of format. Okay Is that get it? Yep, I like it Everybody's nodding Okay, fine we're just Fortunately, this is a short memo. It will we can be done by the end of the day, right? It'd be funny if we were done by December 1st after all No, we because we have to be public. Yes No, I think I mean I think that we met with I think it's really important to get each of these entities to react You know, oh, absolutely. It was a joke Yeah, yeah, so we might be done with our initial draft Okay Hey So now this is pretty much unchanged from what you saw before um I think john I I don't have the marked up version but he caught some typos and He had a due to covet Yeah, I did. I think I did that but you know, I I put covet in more than once because Um, I would like to move up in the Under the first bullets I would like staffing to be The first bullet and to combine the staff support to flesh out and staff support for voting Make one important bullet because that is key You know, we can't do anything without staff support. So You know, even if we only have 10 bucks if we don't have the staff support for it Um, so I would like to just rearrange Okay, really highlight how important it is to have I'm going to just type it in right now here and then fix it staff support to push out proposals Yeah, and and you know, we can reword that but just Put those two items together and kick them to the front to the top So on on this on this point. I have a question conceptual question Is um, I I forget if it's stated clearly elsewhere Are we recommending as well that this commission go out of existence and what remains of The momentum for participatory budgeting be in the hands of the council and whatever staff are devoted to it. Is that the idea? That that is there's no commission no no citizen volunteers like ourselves who are Doing bits of work, uh keeping things going That's a really I think that's an extremely important point. We might want to talk about Um, it was my understanding that the commission was to look at how this would work But not to actually design the project right to just do the structure of it So if we do want to include that, um, that would be something to add In the the uh implementation I think Liz is right that we have a term and it ends and we've just gotten it extended But I don't think we have the option of extending it without the council agreeing But john's suggesting also proposing that there be some Um Or asking not necessarily proposing some uh ongoing other committee possibly that would Uh shepherd this along well, I'm thinking it had as well to the What I've put into section b and I'm very leery of You know inventing new tasks for people who already have full jobs, you know in the community participation officers, for example We might expect them to come up with I don't know surveys and You know, uh referenda and so forth, but uh and or the town council We might expect them to do that, but they they already have their plates full and in a way I think it'd be great if you had a small group of people who were working on Let's call it. I don't know the the spade work or the busy work and then turned it over Half-prepared to the community participation officers or the council and they're the ones who actually implement things, but I don't know just just some half-baked ideas ahead on this I like that thinking This is something we want to raise up to talk about at another meeting So in other words, we're editing here and when we identify things that need more discussion We'll pull them out. Is this one of those? I think I need more discussion now Okay I'm just keeping track here Our next meeting agenda is forming I might be a little early on this, but one thing which I didn't add, but it could take some time Do is When we we eventually reference cpa and cdbg we also talk about the capital budget Versus the operating Should we in the shortest way possible explain how those work? I'm not an expert in it, but we probably should right have those work Prior to giving recommendations, I'm not sure Um, one thing we might do if I was a cpa member. I might react and say, what do you know about cpa? but if we identify, you know, we acknowledge how it works right now here are recommendations Perhaps a way to do this without making this more dense is to create an appendix See, you know appendix a for a description of how these now work Yeah, you know, I did that a bit john in the memo that I did last march and I can expand on it and vet it to make sure Um, I'm chair of jcpc So I can probably make that accurate by myself, but I can work with holly to make sure we've got All of these done, but I think you know, we could just say Process included and then we can say appendix a includes a description of how these currently work That and maybe any legal, um Limitations for example, we could recommend that every process be Fully democratic done by referenda, but some of these processes can't happen that way Right. So I think the appendix a would have to do that. So like right now I do a little bit of that later or we do a little bit of that later in this memo, but Even the council doesn't directly decide the elements of the capital proposal All together, you know, it's in the town manager's hand and jace Yes, so, you know cpec is a particular thing with an entity that governs it. So we should describe Not just current but like what what's the legal current way it operates, you know Um, just a little note. We could also include in that Kind of a summary of that spreadsheet that may can put together Just and then reference that to like back where we say this is who we talk to see appendix x y z or whatever appendix it is. Okay, another thing in the appendix could be A little more background on the commission that the charter commission I don't know if we want to history I wouldn't I would I think we just need to do things that avoid making this a long read Yeah, or there for a reader to understand what we're talking about. Um, I guess Okay, so we've got Notice 430. Yeah, so let's keep plugging along here. This is excellent I just under the sufficient Where did it go now sufficient budging? I just need to clarify that I don't I think john already addressed that Um, I didn't understand that part Right. Where are you back up on its page for the sufficient budget to engage And then the one time expense capital versus ongoing operating budget. I think john you already Dressed that so I just I wasn't too sure what the Point we were trying to make was um Well, I what I meant when I wrote this What I what I thought we heard when we were talking to people and then reading about it They had to put enough money on the table That someone thought it was worth proposing something And most of them restricted it to one time capital expenses And then until we got to um Kingston actually figured out a way that you could do something that ultimately became part of the operating budget But the others were quite restrictive Um You know, so that was this one time summer program internships so Okay, I think maybe that could be Explained a little bit better because it doesn't need to be the separate bullet mini bullet point. Are those bullet points? I don't know whatever. Um Yeah, I just okay now I understand what those were I I don't know right now how to You can just highlight it so we can think on how that because I understand what you're saying I mean, I'm a little Now that we rehashed it I'm understanding but when I read it the first time that you mentioned it I I was a little bit confused as well. It's really the first bullet um Versus projects that would have ongoing operating expenses, maybe I don't You know, so none of them I guess the example would be none of them. I think the first part of that bullet Okay, sorry Kathy. I cut you off Okay, go on John. I I just you know, it's it's this is as opposed to we need another Police officer. We need another firefighter We want library Benefits Your last bullet under staff I think captures the first sentence Maybe in this bullet um support to publicize As outreach I just Liz Liz suggested move all staff. So I just didn't it's a duplicate, right? I see Yeah, I moved all the staff things up Okay So now it's the staff support to flesh out the first part of the highlighted one Oh See would you like that capture in staff and then No, I think I think what that means is the amount At at play needs to be sufficient to make people interested in it not to have the sufficient budget to pay for the staff to But you know Yeah, now I see that Okay, so So I see how I was misinterpreting too. So we'll have to think on wording on that Maybe that's something we can work on Okay, either John Fenske or John McCabe. I can't remember the last time said I see this as a lure We put some money on the table to bring some people in So it's so sufficient budget to attract the public to propose or No, or to incentivize the public to come up with proposals or that's what you're yeah, right Okay entice Who's going to work on that language? Yeah, I like entice Okay To make proposals, right? Let's pause a moment here and reflect on where we are in our meeting We have ideally we said we were going to stop it after an hour and a half. We have 25 minutes Let me just check do a time check on now. Shall we continue with this and see how far we get? Shall we come back to this at our next meeting? I just want to give I so I have a question on how much we can do and Holly maybe more is likely more of an expert than I am With things that are wordsmithing better wording could each person drop theirs in or make a comment and then Share it with us like we're doing now to Uh Meet we did this I'm trying to think of we did it once, you know send their things just to mag but what what we did once with the council is Lynn did a very I thought painful process on her end Is she copied and pasted everybody's comment into one document? You know, this isn't clear to me needs to be fixed or something So only one person was seeing all the comments And no decisions were being made literally all the comments were put in Because I think these you know, this isn't clear to me. We need to refix it Might be a way to I'm not saying we stopped right now on page four. We have Three more page. We have a bunch more pages so we could say we stopped here Well, this maybe we want to go a little further. I didn't know if this was the right stopping place, but I'm noticing Um, I'd be happy to do that. It's a little it's hard to imagine that um sending edits and comments is constitutes violating open meeting law But if we think this better, I'd be happy to get if we all see if we all see each others It seems to be a violation if one person takes Five comments and puts drops them in without making changes. I mean, I just think it's we can just I just It was really useful when we were doing something else and it enabled us next time to just go through and make decisions, but Well, I'd be happy to do that. That would be I just want to be Basically a decider what how are we going to spend the rest of this meeting and how are you? I'm happy to do what you described if people got their comments to me by A week from today say and I take Friday Saturday and I know it has to be sooner than that because To get them to you Kathy Um No, I'm saying that I don't get to see everybody's um, you know, it's if either everyone sent to me And I produced a consolidator everyone sent so then we're working through a very messy marked up thing with little comment bubbles, you know I don't so Kathy. What do you think would be the Well, I don't know enough Liz said she had marked up throughout Um, you know small and large, you know edits And some of the things we're hitting so I I just need a sense of the group I'm perfectly happy to just keep going and see how far we get and then say we got to the end of whatever page and You know, we're making changes as we go along and it's getting it, you know, it's in track change mode. So I was just I don't know how much more is what I'm asking is how much more does everybody have And uh, or there are some big things we should jump to or there are lots of small things And we should just keep going the way we're going Can we I've got like one big thing that I've got a question on and can we just all just There's also some typos in it and if we just say we're not going to deal with typos right now okay, um But I agree kind of the Concepts Yeah, that's you are you willing to receive those or let's just agree on Who's worrying about typos right now? How about the typos and steps down and then we'll have one person who will be the proofreader And we'll go through and get rid of the typos Okay, and I'll hand that over to you. Liz. I'm terrible at seeing my own typos and I did do a spell check I did you know, so they're they're they're the kind that slipped by me. So what are the big let's do the big things So I think that this is this is pretty productive and I um, I mean we the other thing too is We did move the time of the meeting up to 330 so that we could do two hour meetings I don't know if anybody objects to that today personally But the other items left on the agenda are Well, the timeline might be a little bit time consuming But you know confirming the next meeting and talking about meeting and public comment should be pretty Short, so I think we should keep going if everybody's willing I also don't think we can decide on a timeline until we have a document that Right. Um, okay. Do we want to go till 5 30? I can do it I can do it. I can do it I'll probably have to cut out at 5 15 but Yeah, okay. Do people agree with Holly's proposal that we just keep going. Yep Okay, and that uh, Liz is typos and grammar can be emailed after I'm ready. Let's just tell me where to go onward Oh, so I'm page five really all I had were a lot of kind of typos and language clarification, which we can deal with later But the one that I had the big question of and maybe this was because I was in my car on a phone Rather than an actual meeting the pilot program I don't really understand what that is because to me Everything that comes before is here's the three prong strategy to work with what we've got And then this is kind of like oh and here's another little idea that we have but Doesn't seem to fit into the three prong recommendation So I guess I need a little clarity on what that is Okay, um, I wrote this so let me tell you what I was thinking about when I wrote it. Um, I thought if we couldn't carve out For whatever reasons a pot of money out of each of these sources or maybe this isn't even a pilot if we thought we could get up to A certain amount from each source The residents would not need to know which source could potentially fund their their project idea. So we could say projects could be considered In any of these categories and some of them might be cpa categories might some of them might be cdbg Categories some might be just straight capital And we would put up a small amount of money rather than 50 out of each of them 50 total To see what kinds of ideas people came up with and then at the staff level They would say well, this can't be funded by cpa, but it could be funded by cdbg or it could be fun. It's a straight capital So I had that you wouldn't so it is a way of instead So some you know, so we could say there is a pot even though there really isn't a pot It's a conceptual pot And we've gotten agreement There isn't really any agreement right now on resident proposals for capital that we will fund even one of them So but if we got An agreement or a commitment that we would fund at least up to x dollars So this was what my idea was that it would be invisible to you When you're proposing it, but we would list it would have to fit into one of these Right And that was that was my Throwing that idea on a piece of paper Liz, but it wasn't particularly well thought out when I did it So yeah, I'm coming. I'm visualizing this and and yeah Okay, now I understand so Kathy. This is the paragraph I rewrote, but You want me to share my screen with it or send it to everybody? So this is there's a door and then you get through the door and there are three hallways Yes, exactly. Okay, and you wouldn't necessarily know the hallways. I mean this would be That you wouldn't necessarily know the hallways. You wouldn't have to know the hallway before you go through the door, right? Okay So translate that into really Right So Meg so you yours was adding schools to this. No, the first paragraph was rewriting what you wrote on the pilots Okay, we'll share your screen. Okay. I think you have to unshare I do. Okay. I don't think I can share I think we're all equal Okay, we go to the top of the green and unshare You are sure screen sharing stop share and mine is red, but there we go. So now I'll share mine I think maybe it's the word pilot because to me a pilot is something that's new So this part is just on the rewrite of the pilot But pilot usually means a small scale Birth of something right, but it's a small scale. But yeah So the key things that I wanted to add are this idea of Could be used to develop procedures and infrastructure for a full program down the road So that we because And this Well, I'll let you read it Then the second then I decided rather than writing a separate section on schools that that could be A sub a category of a pilot project rather than a whole new Didn't fit with a memo to have a whole new thing Well, the rewrite of the first paragraph still kind of says the same thing except for the first Sentence, you know, Liz's notion of you come in one door and We figure out where where the money's coming from right? So I would rewrite this now based on what Liz said, but I hadn't heard that but Right. So here were my questions about the school the schools That I sent to meg The schools So starting let's do regional school committee the regional school committee is uh more towns than just us and um Once you have all the towns involved they would have to vote on this amount of money And so the question is is it pelham residents and shoes fairy and leopard also making proposals That's question number one Question number two is the regional school capital budget, you know these one-time expenditures is um Part of a budget the town council approves and each town approves their share of their budget and it's all folded in so it wasn't clear and the capital Their capital proposals never come to jcpc But we know what if they have voted on it what the impact will be on the town budget in terms of debt service So it's a weird And they they finance it with bonds Secondly, my second question that was about elementary schools elementary school We control the budget and they do make capital requests every year to jcpc Whether it's a bus a bench So the one resident proposal this year we had was for solar panels over the parking lots of the schools So I wasn't sure how you can carve the schools out since the schools come through the more general budget process of the town Right. So you made these excellent comments I submitted I agree with you. So we could just delete this part here uh Or But these are really two separate ideas, right the main thing I want to suggest here with this Which should we talk about first? I'm happy to eliminate the school thing or rewrite it to be elementary school But it's well, I it was just it was just you know, I think Let's just talk on the first paragraph A pilot um, if we do I have no problem with this Way of rewriting it and the pilot we might say, you know, this could include things That included the schools like it include it can include a bench or a water fountain or um, So, you know, because those are capital projects, right? So They are covered. They're not and like cpac The regional school are coming for community fields Right, you know, so it's it's not that schools are not included in the above probably they're not included in cdbj, but maybe there's something under cdbj so um So list does meg's rewrite Other than we do the you know, we can If we carve out a small amount of money and then it's the residents could propose coming through one door And the town would figure out which category it fitted it fit into. Yeah, I I that rewrite Works in my brain for some reason the words. Sorry, my brain is stopping working right now Okay, so why don't I take this first paragraph of meg's plug it right in and then do this um, you know Invisible to residents or something that they could come through one door for a small amount of money And the the town staff would figure out If this is possible at all, but which pot it was coming out of Yeah I'm trying to find where you cross something out, but I'm going to cross this out, right? I I think I'm I'm having a little bit of difficulty with this because If this were to be a pilot And and the wording doesn't even matter if this were to be some sort of program that we would want to try to Work on by getting a little bit of money from cpa a little bit of money from cdbg and a little bit of money from jcpc How I guess I'm just confused on how you could even Do that Because cpaq has to recommend a project right that's that's what g has to recommend a project So maybe instead of It's working on getting a bit of money from each of these pots instead The initial Pilot program is to when citizens come to the front door. We say okay You need to go down the cpaq hallway. You need to go down to help direct Okay, citizen the residents to Where rather than yeah trying to get anybody I mean I Would not if I were on any of these committees. I would not want to say yeah, you guys Go ahead. We're going to set aside 10 000 for you Right, you know, so that's what holy saying. It's unlikely. Well, it's probably impossible with cdbg But right so a bit more and it just commit x dollars to Uh an abstract concept So it's more the you know the the participatory budgeting pilot program is more the the um sorting hat Of you come in with this idea. Let us help you figure out where the best current place is To go look for that money Or to put your proposal to as for the schools. I think I um Just as a parent in the schools right now, I don't want to touch them I want to stay as far away from the school budget right now. Um, I do think this does make me realize that somewhere in here It would be lovely to have Um Working with the schools for outreach to the students To get them to feel engaged in the community too. Well, that's that was sort of the idea, but um Yeah Like no just just to say because these are like um in your center your your proposal It's to encourage the young people to think about how their school might be improved But I would like them to think about how their community at large can be approved because their residents of the community too So not just limiting their options to what they can do for their school, but what they can do for the community so So do we want to but it sounds like we are going to not have this right? but I want to Put on the burn someplace. Let's include Engaging students college and Okay, I I've got that note and then meg. I've got your rewritten paragraph. I'll drop it in with this change wording after um After that first sentence. Is that a first sentence that goes all the way down to resident voting on proposals? That's one sentence, right? Of one But but then the place where the new wording is going in um, it would be You know There'd be one door the residents would come with an idea and staff would help them figure out whether this is a cpac a cdbg or jcpc on proposal And um, and would help them flush it out. Yeah, I'd make that two sentences. Actually, that's pretty big sentence. Okay Okay, I got it stop sharing Oh, are we going back Kathy to yours now? Okay, let's see I was just going to say that without I think we found a good solution for including the schools explicitly in outreach um, but we can always add a um Not next steps, but what did I call it? Uh, maybe further research or additional research Paragraph and so maybe if there's something that at the end of our term we don't resolve like the schools I I mean, I agree with liz's and with Kathy that it's so complicated to for this group to tackle But it doesn't mean we can't put a paragraph in that. Um You know, uh exploring this within the school budget process specifically in the future you know I don't know if it ever will happen, but we could always put that as like a further research opportunity or outstanding question Okay, and I'm just gonna um So down on outreach Amazing We can all watch that Okay, so I'm just gonna we'll figure out where that goes So here's where we get on very slippery grounds the next part in my Things might need to change. Well, they really have to change a lot so you know that Each of these potential sources of money Has a governing structure to it and a legal basis to it that Doesn't easily allow a voting process by residents doesn't easily Allow us to even us meeting the town To say a certain amount of money will up to a certain amount would always be spent on resident proposals if we get any good ones uh-huh um, so I I kind of loosely wrote this um because there isn't there isn't A commitment, you know, Holly knows the CPAC process really well, but You know, I was just really struck this year on The shortage of proposals until a few came in after the deadline But I think Meg your proposal Was the only one that came in That's what I was called on the resident side, you know, as opposed to The town side I'm super And the historic commission. I think decided it didn't qualify Because they want to fund this is a history a interpretive history trail of the old mill sites and We need to do some research to figure out which sites and what They said they'd be interested in funding the the post the signs that indicate what was there but not Research to figure out where the sign should go and what they should say Well, and that's with CPAC. It's the there's an entity beyond CPAC that says does this fit then the CPAC committee says is it Does it fit the definition of what the committee can support? The Jones library was a good discussion on the special collections. Um, could you support building a new room to house them? And until they moved it to the old part of the library, there was a question of the collections are historic. Can you Build the building To protect them, right? So each of these so it's it's mainly I'm mainly I was saying This short little section doesn't do justice to the hurdles Of saying build on programs we've got So do we make a section on implementation? And here are the things that would need to happen in order So one would be a review of bylaws and current You know limitations on that um And then yeah It's all and there's just the The categories are so and how they interpret them are so uh narrow Well, yeah, that's what I see. Yeah, that is the You know could building on these happen? Um, and I think this Past tense if we went out and talked to various staff people And or the town attorney will give us some answers on Things that were in my mind would For example with the count could the council do a bylaw that changes something Um that carves out money or make some of these processes possible. I have no idea The charter is pretty explicit about how the budget will operate Including how the capital budget operates. It's and that's our town charter That's our governing law. Yeah So if you had informal agreement from The town manager that they like he it's a currently a he likes this idea And the jcpc committee liked this idea. There could be a more concerted effort To make sure there's at least a resident proposal or two each year Could you do voting on it, you know, so I think each of these elements we've talked about is an implementation challenge, right? or implementation issue Yep Huge We probably need to meet with each of these groups Okay, and i'm going to change the word might to would What might need to change what would need to change? Yeah And holly, you know, I have no idea whether in any community Under the the preservation act money do any of them do something about Voting proposals with a broader resident group or are they all just the committee? before it comes The statute says it's the committee. I don't know if they use other Means to get it to the committee for the final say I That I mean I don't see that as being Unallowed but the the committee is the one that has to make the recommendations to the town manager Right, I don't know of any other communities that do it in In a broader way Okay, so that would be but I don't but I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed, right Okay And so mag you will check I'll check into it and mag you would you have emphasized throughout Having residents vote on these in some way so they think they influence the decision The voting part Is a separate hurdle, right? Now if we could get a commitment to fund at least a handful of these every year We would have had a jump start on what happens now Right, you know one of the things I thought of that I didn't think of when we were talking about it It's back when we talked about john's section excellent section on What what we've done in the places where we've had meetings we also met with stanford and berkeley about Technology around voting and there's there are there's infrastructure out there that we should at least reference that we know about That could facilitate some of these committees blocking that voting and Communication We should at least reference I'm happy to write that just just Yeah, we can we can put that in and it's just the point is that if We can't do voting at all having Tools to vote will not be terribly helpful But in strategy b we talk about voter referendums and polling and I think it is completely relevant for there You know, how do you get so if there were a pilot project what we've just been talking about little bits, you know, yeah anyway I'll write that up for the next draft So this is underwritten is I guess the way I would term this and implementation challenges Right, so should we Send you our thoughts on this identify the challenges, but not kind of I mostly identify the challenge Yup, and I don't know the solutions. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think we have I guess My thought on this would be as loosely or maybe we can make it written a little bit better But I think this is one where we're going to have to go out and talk to people to tell them You know, so that we'll be able to write it With it's not it does become implementation barriers rather than challenges Um, you know become more negative than just how to overcome them Because I don't think we can solve them just by wordsmithing this at this point So I would just suggest let's just jump to Our second prong of our three prong strategy Okay referenda change the dumps to up Yeah Comments on this section. Um, I I may be uh repeating myself. I think the The issue that's behind A lot of what I'm getting at or we're trying to get at with this these words is How representative Is the opinion or the the answer or the project that that we come up with through participatory budgeting and As I see it, this is my rough and ready view of municipal politics. It's you know nowadays It's mostly squeaky wheels, you know, the people who speak up the the vested interests and so forth Whereas the charter commission if I've understood correctly was really interested in promoting New and underrepresented voices And so when I say when I talk about referenda and polls I'm thinking about things that are designed in a way that Helps the elected representatives and the town manager To get a better and more confident understanding of what the true Center of gravity or the weight of or the different views in the public are rather than just the squeaky wheels Absolutely I think it's in Greensboro where the participatory budgeting is only for the two low-income wards Mm-hmm The pro the projects have to be designed for those wards and the voters are the people who residents who live there No, no, they had multiple districts. They just made sure that they My memory is they districted it out to make sure that there were some from their low-income I know there isn't there are some though that yeah, but I'm a totally agreeing with john And That's the intention Should we put that sentence about squeaky wheels sure Well, yeah, if you like squealing like squeaky wheels, I mean, it's just it's the you know common way that things get done That you know the people who show up at meetings People who have a vested interest Yep, and who know how to work the system Squeaky how do you with an a or No, no ea Well, and there are other ways to say it we can edit it later, you know But that's true that well squeaky wheel sounds like you have a problem But maybe that's what this could be. Yeah, that's good Well, the squeaky wheel gets oiled and the oil is attention from a counselor or vote um I think we admit this throughout but To get actual polling That we feel is representative. I mean, I couldn't imagine the price But we're talking in broad strokes here. So I think that's okay. I'm just trying to think Well in terms of a practical recommendation Yeah, this this way in some way joins uh part c And the participation of the academics and possibly students In other words and the community participation officers and possibly an ongoing Participatory budgeting committee There's a lot of work that it would need to be done to design the right kinds of questions And how you do the surveys with the goal being to give kathy and her other counselors confidence That what they're getting in these results is truly representative That it's giving them something useful rather than just more squeaky wheels I make it sound so easy But I you know, I would hope that you know all the brain power at the universities and colleges here might be able to come up with some Some methods of continuous polling of being able to you know, feel the pulse of the citizenry Getting them involved before we get to the point of a of a an override referendum And I think john pages these I mean there may be some methods the best of them tend to be pretty expensive You know I in a prior walk of life I did a lot of surveys and you watched It becoming harder and harder to get what you even began to hope for as a representative sample We were regularly missing low income And we were regularly missing anyone who spoke a different language The best we did was in israel where we had that we we did it in five languages but and So but but you know, it just these were these got more and more expensive because the phone didn't work as well because people were screening their calls and their mobile phones don't have four one three labels to them and And paper polls don't work very well and in-person polls don't work very well and you know, you just can keep going on and how do you How do you we can't even get people to fill out their census forms? So that's the interest in parquet of having a a bait or allure You get well. Oh, there's money here. I can have a real effect on how it's But you know people I guess just don't take that attitude towards these huge amounts that get spent in in the ordinary course of a budgeting year So I Wonder if maybe the heading for this is it's more the catch-all is Getting a pulse on what the resident priorities are Referenda and polls are the method by which we get that pulse Yeah, and then the other thing just looking ahead. We've got engage UMass and colleges They're part of the residents so I don't know that we Should or want to separate out the college community as this separate subcategory of residents I thought we were trying to move away from that as a town, but But no, I think that's a really important thing is trying to to diversify the voices that are being heard and And how do we do that? I think what John's getting at is that the Colleges are institutions. So the major is like, you know, if we had a steel company in town Who had a you know, it's a major Employer it's the major business. It's what our town's business economy is all about That you often look to institutional support for something like this by people who should have a stake Right, maybe we want to specify back in the introduction And we can write this later that residents refer to and then You know to say that it's so we because we've always tried to remember not to say citizens And if you want to include residents as being high school students and middle school students and And undocumented migrant, you know Part-time workers who live here. I think maybe that's something we throw into the introduction But how about changing C to something like engage major local institutions? Well, let me just go back to what John wrote here, although maybe This isn't he's not here today. I thought This idea was different in that he was hoping some professors would Love this idea and get a big grant and engage some graduate students To help the town figure out how to do it. It wasn't so much get student participation as a different kind of resident It was like go out there and see whether the ford foundation or the name of big foundation Wants wants to fund a pilot with us and figures out how we would do polling. It was technical, you know, it wasn't Right So it was it I just changed and obtained it was like go get go do some work and go get some money for us I thought that was what this one This one was that made it different than b. I agree. That's what he had in mind Maybe we should wait for him or what do we think? I think it's an important point that's different from b So, you know, he did this the goal here is to identify and secure some seed resources both monetary and in kind You know, so it was like, you know, some professors would assign students to this they would Yeah, so so we might not you know, this is one if the commission closes down Who's going to make any I I said, how do you think this might happen in an email to him and he says I have absolutely no idea But I'm hoping someone out there might and I said who was going to reach out to which, you know, political science professor out there that would say, hey, this is cool. Let me let me Um, go try to get some grant money for this. Um, just like the subsequent follow-up committee could do that So what we want to do with this is we want to draw upon the expertise Right available instead of engage because engage to me. I'm like, okay. That's where we're engaging the students Let's draw upon and so excellent Liz excellent language I think I threw out like leverage Yeah, because I agree engage makes me think of the individuals not the institution good So I'm going to note that it's quarter after five. John, do you have to leave now? I just don't want us to run out of Unfortunately, I do I have to just get prepared for the trivia be for what For something The the Amherst education foundation trivia be so I'm headed to go Tonight Already, I'm not there to defend my championship. Oh, well Let me I just I just don't want us to suddenly have everybody Hang up and we don't have a plan for the next step So since everybody seems to be a little bit on this Option c and maybe this is a good place to stop and do our plan our next meeting and Send pick this up And then I would I would encourage the close readers. Liz being one of them Just sent me marked up in the easiest way of typos. So we don't have you know, that just gets taken care of Can we all send you are Okay, let's thank you Make them typos or comments like I don't understand this this needs to be fixed rather than everyone trying to You know pure typos fix it, you know fix them and then I'll I'll incorporate the type of stuff I'll send I will send this document out to everyone. So they're working off this version Okay, and I want to thank you Kathy. You've done a you are the busiest person. I know I think literally And you've had a really tough month and I just appreciate The leadership you've taken and I'm wrestling this memo or outline or whatever we're going to call it. So thank you Uh, and I think we made huge progress here So for our next meeting agenda, I suggest that we finish we continue with this or go back and see if This conversation has sparked any other additional substantive ideas And we're going to talk about if we decision making as an element of this what we think about that And the idea of an ongoing committee And if anybody I'll be in touch with John about the agenda as the vice chair if anybody has other agenda items send them I'm a big believer that everybody should Participate in setting the agenda When is the next meeting? So that's the next thing. Okay. Our very next meeting is December Where I have written down here. So many pieces 12. I think Do you mean November? November What did I say? You said December, but No, I didn't mean December Okay, we have it on the agenda. Okay. It's November 12th So, uh, that's when we agreed on the last time we set three meetings and then we didn't have the previous one Do people want to meet after that on December 3rd or 10th? But this would love to have two meetings ahead because we're also busy So we can block off say, you know times that we know we I'd rather Make it December 10th And meeting would be Thanksgiving, which obviously we're not going to do. Yeah. Yeah, I'd rather make it December 10th for the following reason if we can Get a bit more worked on on November 12th. We could Have some some staff discussions on some of these ideas and report back on December 10th. Okay We'll bring someone into our meeting if we wanted to at that time Yeah, that would just put them in the public to mount realm Meg. So, you know, I was thinking of quiet just quiet conversations Okay, so how many other comments on December 10th is our next meeting as opposed to December 3rd Any comments any hearing none Our next meeting will be November 12th and the meeting after that will be December 10th Great and then I'm going to send this back to everyone through Meg that what we just did So typo we kinds of things This needs to be changed come you come at bubbles. So we're No one's going to be doing major writing on this, you know at this point So we're going to just come back to it. But if it's typo, I can fix it. I can fix them all What if this discussion has sparked some thinking about a sentence or two That's more substantive. When would we do that? I think drop drop it in, you know, drop it in and Liz had, you know, put somewhere that You know reach out to students. So students feel like, you know, our our kids to get them involved in making ideas So dropping a sentence or two in I think would be fine. It's just, you know, it Group writing is even harder than what we just did. So So just do that selectively I just want to drop in the reference to berkeley and Yeah All right, if anyone can fix fix that the towns we talked to and or individually or as a group And I have notes that we need an appendix a and the appendix b is who did we talk to, you know, so Those don't have to be written now So I'm sorry. I need to Can we clarify We're all going so you're going to Kathy, you're going to send out the new version that you've just been working on Yep, and we're all going to take that and add our own comments and then send that back to you via meg Or do we do a moment or or do do we You send it to meg Meg sends it to john john and we pass it along so that we're not all making the same typo corrections No I mean if we only pass it on to one person at a time well I would love to do what you just did Elizabeth liz and i'm going to ask I heard this is the only thing I heard In a planning board meeting that I thought was oh my god Mike berg whistle asked to do just that he said I have some ideas and I have some questions on this Can I send mine to chris breastrift and then she sends mine on to other people or can she send there? So I don't have to and she said I can't do that you can All send me your ideas and I can create one large memo with everybody's ideas in it But we can't do it sequentially because then we're collaborating not in the public in some way Which when it comes to typos seems to me Let's just ignore typos for now. Yeah, so let's just ignore typos So have it be anything substantive drop a sentence in or do a comment bubble like I think this needs to be fixed. I don't think it's clear and I will Insert all of those into About a thing with colors so big When do you need everything kathy in order for us to have it ready to send out on? Well, what's today is the 29th and is the 12th two weeks from now? Yes Um, I'll be relieved politically relieved I hope so Or we'll be or we'll be suicidal. Um, but um If if we say in jail I will send this out to everyone now, you know once we get off for today Um seven days from now. It's not going to take me that long to do that. So today is a thursday. So by friday of next week Okay, no, I'm doing That's november 6th. Yep. Okay. Is that everybody comments to kathy by friday the november 6th? Yep, and then then I can I can Assemble those and get it to mag by monday so she can get it out to people in a packet Right and I send it out separately. I send it to angel at a post But I also send it to everybody directly because I find that link tricky Well, then you need to do that mag also because angela posts them as a pdf Yeah, so if people want to actually insert their stuff into a document, you know, if it's easier Great. So um, um, do you want to send mag? Do you want to send it to me to do the typos before you send it out? I can do the typo. I can turn around typos quickly And then we don't need to spend time at our next meeting talking about typos. Yay. Thank you. Liz. Okay And if kathy sees some she can just change them. Well, no kathy. Don't No, but it's very important to have a separate proofreader or no It's really good because some of them are missing words and The spell check doesn't catch the fact that you're just you miss the verb or yeah, none of us can prove our own work As well, you know, so it's good to have a second set of eyes or third So I don't know if we have energy to look at our timeline might I have a feeling we don't Uh, and my desire is that we agree at some point soon on when we want to engage The committees and the public so that we start lining that up for example I gave earlier if we wanted the league of women voters to help us With the with the forum They they get good participation So I don't know but I don't think we have the time and energy to do that today No, I don't think so either and I think maybe make sure we carve out 10-minute discussion next meeting Meg on You know when we are most likely to have a draft, we're willing to share to anyone Before we get the league to set up a meeting for us. So do we think that's February? I you know, I just you know our best guess Um, we have to be done by june but working backwards from june. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I think Yeah, so let's just we don't we can't we don't have time to do wait until we finish the draft and then start thinking about outreach We have to do a little anticipation because right. Yeah, I just I'm saying is I I think best about yes, let's do outreach and tell them we're going to have a Hopefully we'll be ready by x date and then you should then do it So let's just look at timeline that way and let's also for the next meeting think of the individuals that we need to speak with either Oh this cat get down either on the sidelines or It come to one of our meetings, you know, let's think about how we structure those conversations because they'll be really important information to Sharpen our proposal and that has to happen before we go to the public obviously So good. Yeah, I don't think we have the energy right now. So and it's a little premature Um, I would like to invite Anyone in the public who would like to speak To raise your hand And there are none I'm looking at attendees. There are none. There are none. Good thing. We left a little very little time for that Okay, so we have for our topics for the next meeting go over this the outline again If we have time talk about decision making Talk about an ongoing committee and talk approximately about when we think we'll have a draft In order to begin our conversations with individuals and our outreach to the public Anything else anybody wants to say or add John have a blast at the trivia V that it's always a fun event It should be good Yes, okay, so he's what he has five minutes now or four minutes to prepare All right, um, I I have I'm gonna have to Add a lot to these notes, but I have these so I will I will prepare that and send that to you Meg John, thank you so much I appreciate it. We all appreciate it. Thank you. Bye now. Okay, everyone motion to adjourn Yes, thank you Motion to adjourn. Yes Yes, john seconds. All right, john. Do we have to really do a roll call? No. No, we could just all say yes Yes Perfect, thanks everyone This was great. It's getting pro we're making progress