 So we're going to start the meeting if that's okay with everybody so introduction here so why don't we why don't we just start by going around the room and everybody introduce yourself I don't know say your name whatever you feel needs to be said okay great so I'm karma George I live in Ward 7 I'm excited about the new steering committee and the new feelings and vibes and things going into this NPA so really okay I'm Hank Presky from Ward 4 and new to the end well everybody's new to the NPA here and but I don't have any experience with other NPAs and anxious to be involved we're glad to be here since 1985 the ANC advisory neighborhood council and then and I used to attend these a lot but then I had a period where I was gone from Burlington lived in Jeffersonville for like eight seven eight years and then I've come back I mean I had foot in both communities but now I've been back for eight years here and I've been gradually putting my feet back in things here so here I am oh and my background is in I'm an writer and an editor and used to be a journalist I'm retired now awesome I used to be an ace at grammar and all that stuff and more and more I start going oh is that right so you know but but yeah I still I really yeah so that's my that's my strength in this group anyway so I think that's what I bring to it you're a strength yeah that's my strength no you are our strength oh I am as we're all strengths we all have strengths I'm Vicki gerson Ward 7 what word do you live in oh I'm sorry seven yep okay so yeah so so here here is where I'm gonna talk about our starting point okay so we have an original document which is the bylaws from 2008 and that's our starting point and one of the catalysts for change was the act was a person who is transgender being treated poorly and and going to having the courage to speak up and go to the city and go to the city council and say hey this is not right and the city council responded unanimously saying hey this needs to be cleared up and NPAs need a clear non-discrimination policy so I would say that is our top priority in this meeting okay and Vicki has taken the time to put together some great recommendations and the challenge here is that they're on the CEDO version which is a little bit different from the 2008 version so I'd like to figure out how do we get it do we my question to all of you is do we make this leap to the CEDO version and just tell when we bring to the the full community do we say hey we we feel that the CEDO version has a lot to offer or what do we say why if someone asks us why did you go from the 2008 to the CEDO version I don't think we're there yet because I think that we have to determine you know what format we have so much to work to do like determining what parts of the original I think a lot of the original is in the CEDO it is it's just yeah different and the format is different and I think that so that's why I'm just saying I don't think we're there and I kind of looked at the CEDO version because I felt like at the last meeting that the intention was to push the CEDO version and so that's where I spent my time and there are lots of I did look at all of the the bylaws from the various wards and I could see where CEDO extracted ideas from them yeah and they do a great job yeah I agree I I think it needs work I don't think it's a final draft but and I think it's important that we all feel comfortable with all the parts that are in there and then we'll know what to bring to the people yeah okay I'm not to bring up Robert's rules or anything but I think if we're moving to a different version I think we probably have to delete these the current bylaws from our in our in our meeting if we're taking on the CEDO version because that's the only thing that the city has and if we're abandoning that but but I'm down the road we would have to do that for sure right I don't know that we would have to do that because we're revising I don't know that we would have to do anything other because it's a revision so yeah yeah you revise something you can change the whole thing it doesn't say to what extent it's right but if we're starting with the CEDO version it's very different to this right now we're just we're just until we get to the point we don't even need to think about that I feel you know I mean it's okay I mean I would start are we able to decide to start with one as the skeleton of our new bylaws and then go back and look at the other and take changes from it if we want so here I am totally open to whatever like I just want to preface what I'm gonna say but I had a conversation with and I don't want to speak for winter but she she expressed to me that she felt she has a strong feelings about that original so I don't those are not my feelings but I just want to share that somebody said that to me so not that that's you know nice it's just that there may be people who have feelings about moving to the CEDO version I like the CEDO version so why what do you guys feel like you feel like the CEDO is where we should just move to okay I have it seems like a nice opportunity for a fresh start yeah so keeping the old format sort of doesn't really look like a fresh start yeah and I also think like just I know that this is like a one-pager and I know people sometimes like that yeah but it doesn't have a lot of like it doesn't come off as a community document like war like the version that I read from Vicky just feels like more welcoming yeah and in plain language and like you know I know it's longer but I think like I had a preference I preferred that one it just seemed more meaningful than like this just seemed really like rigid yeah I also think what's important is we're revising them for a reason there have been problems in this ward for a reason there's been a history in this word that needs to change yeah and I think that starts and that's why I'm participating in these meetings because if we want to encourage an environment that is inclusive that values diversity is inclusive and people have a sense of belonging it's critical that we reflect that in this document otherwise we won't nurture that to be to come to fruition so Deb this is where when I was telling you about the note taking if you could could summarize this conversation yeah we can have minutes yeah so that when we go to the full community we can have a conversation we can preface and say hey this is the thought behind this change and so like what both people have said um like if you could summarize that yeah yeah and then share can you share it with before we put the minutes on the website we'll send it out to this group and everyone can give you feedback on here make sure that those sure sentiments and feelings are clear and I can put the rest you don't need to yeah sure so I the feeling that I get Hank are you on board with moving to the Cito version sure okay um and I feel like everybody's read Vicki's edits right I skimmed through them I have to you guys take a moment to to read it or Vicki do you talk about it what I'm happy to talk about it please that'd be let me yeah throw out one thing yeah I agree with what you're saying because the bylaws I agree with both of what you're saying because the bylaws generally have more meat in them than a one-page little you know front and back you know not to say that we need to be wordy but but they generally have more and and yet with the Cito version I feel like they're a little bit too wordy so that's where I kind of come down a little bit you know I feel like they could be tightened up a bit um you know that's that's one thing so I would I have no problem starting with Cito and then I would edit I like what you've added but then I would tighten them up right so so um hold on I'm sorry one what it where you're raising your hand I'm just going to say if it's helpful for you all I can put any comments or that would be great suggestion mode and so you can see the changes live that sounds great it'll just be suggestions so you're going to see the original if you guys fine me doing that yeah yeah that sounds great so just let me know if you're going through any parts of it so one of the things I was thinking about in my mind is that where there have been issues in the community have been around matters of diversity and equity and we want to promote an environment that is inclusive and where people feel like they're a part of it I assume we're on that page 100 percent therefore at the beginning I thought it was important to add those language even though this is city dot language from the city web page but that we included there because what we do later simply adding a non-discrimination clause does not do justice and at the bottom mind you does not do justice to this part of the mission because it tells people what not to do and it's kind of negative connotations with what DEIB is about I think it's important to frame it in a way that a lot promotes an atmosphere that shows people what we're what we are and what we're going to continue to move towards yeah so that was one thought and also just changing that we're established okay they're established now more active right um they're established and they're up and running um so that was my thought there I changed the order I understand the first uh one was to operate through democratic principles and procedures but um I think before we even get there we there's work that we individually have to do and by changing the the the um excuse me the changing the order really holds people subconsciously maybe consciously you know uh individually accountable for their part two so um recognize diversity as both the strength and an opportunity cultivate involvement of these are the same right or did I change them from there you know um so I just changed the order um and some of the language so the one acknowledged the barriers to accessing decision making I put that there because I think there has to be something in here honoring and we can change the language um it was a placeholder um where there is voting it's often not an equitable experience for people of marginalized needs and identities and I think it's important that we become increasingly aware of that um in this space um and and obviously this is new a new discussion maybe for some of us here but others of us know it very well I agree with that I just think that maybe there could be a little bit more explaining what that means for people who don't understand that well so much it could be um uh acknowledge or be mindful of um you know I was being really covert here but um acknowledge um and or be mindful of the dynamics of privilege and power in a space okay well here's what I was thinking for example acknowledge barriers to accessing decision making such as people who generally don't have the haven't had the privilege to participate or you know something that people can hear easy does that make sense or is that a I think that acknowledged dynamics of privilege and power in a space okay and how would we address that though as an organization as this NBA we can acknowledge them what do we do about them that's what I'm I'm that's what I'm thinking well what example like of it's hegemony right so white male privilege is real sure and if they're dominating a space or taking over a space to ensure that space is made for other voices just an example okay well that's what I mean then acknowledge barriers and and take steps to include that's what I mean you know that that's what I'm saying to say what will we do to address it because otherwise we can all say yeah we acknowledge that well and carry on you know what I mean that's that's what I mean I don't mean to be I hope I'm not being a pain in that no I appreciate that anyway this I just thought it was important for us to put something there in that space that was just a and also in the next one I understand that people will may say be a fun may it's okay that I move on to the next one yeah of course be a fun creative and vital organization that provides value and benefit through the multitude of perspectives shared and again I added diverse there because yeah I might say multitude of perspectives well that's diversity but it could be a multitude of perspectives from one lens of experience so I thought it was important to add that then further down again the language participation by non-members was just messy you're bringing bringing joy to Deb's heart you're bringing joy to Deb's heart it was just messy I was an English teacher oh so I was very I was generous in not marking this up more um yeah maybe you should work it up yeah feel free so I also thought using more active verbs yeah I agree totally was a better approach I mean that's why that language changed it was very wordy I like number two with these conducting meetings and I for those on online who don't know about this like we had Joanne from our steering committee questioned do we have to use Robert rules of order and I thought wow that that would really free us up to really have some change and have conversation so I'm looking that connects into these comments that you have here yeah I think and I think that using I think that using Robert's rules of order perpetuates division because there hasn't been exposure and experience with that manner and there's already a gap in the way in which people communicate based upon many demographics yeah and so I think that further divides people and it's critical that we don't use it that's my recommendation and that maybe should be an agenda item um at our next meeting yeah I think one of the things that I saw at our what I'm going to call it our first NPA because it's a really it's our first real change sure is when I was sitting there listening to people struggling with Robert's rules of order I'm like how can I stop this so that people can communicate and so right when somebody said hey we can actually get rid of this I was like yeah that sounds great so we can actually people talk without having a manual you know so it's true I know I mean I guess at times when there's some really contentious but how would you define that discussion maybe it needs to come into play well you know what at the at the facilitators meeting one of the things she talked they talked about was um I hate them myself well they were talking she said oh well you know there was points where she was talking about conversation and I was you know if someone calls the question and somebody's standing there saying I'm not okay with this I'm not done with this and the whole room votes that were done I asked the facilitator like what do you do and it was she didn't really have an answer and I was like well we're really about community building so we gotta we gotta figure it out but Robert's rules of order is just gonna bulldoze over people and that doesn't you know may move the conversation the meeting along but it may not really resolve that feel right yeah yeah because they don't want to be in violation yeah I think it discourages you know other people who haven't been exposed yeah additionally what the origins of Robert rules yeah I'm sure they came from England you know well and the very fact that we're following Robert for women in this room Robert's rules yeah good point there may be parts of it that we want to keep yeah okay so so we're here on the portion of conducting a meeting interesting I thought this is an interesting topic yeah and then some of the language in this one changed and I'm not sure why Carmen you put full our steering committees full what I thought that I saw that on your there were like two vacancies on ward four on the page you created your page I said full or you put um I put vacancies but there are more than that we haven't yeah determined a number and what's in that in the former bylaws is a maximum of nine so I put on the website vacancies for ward four because I really feel like we're really lacking in four there are vacancies in seven but I wanted to emphasize and so I can add I can add vacancies in ward seven that our current was a nine persons per ward nine okay so I'll change my group right including a use from each right I don't think there's a reason to change those okay so I'll change that on the website and it's a minimum of three and a maximum of nine I don't know I could get kind of unruly I would imagine nine 18 well if they're 18 I would think yeah it starts feeling like maybe it's too like having two separate meetings too many cooks in the kitchen kind of thing well we started with seven we now have nine and it's not balanced by ward yet but um I think we would be fine simply adding people as it made sense I agree uh with a limit of 18 I don't think that we have enough knowledge to change that number at this point so I agree with you Hank yes it's it doesn't seem like it's an issue all right we've we'd love for us to have that issue yeah right oh my gosh there's so many people who want to be on the steering but they used to have they used to you know I'd not been attending the meetings I admit and so I don't know what all happened um that led to all this but they were begging for people to be on the steering committee they were trying to get me to be on it oh yeah and they were only three of them so anyway um I I don't know if this is jumping in just I just looked up there are alternatives for opportunities for and there's a list of them here and there's something called Martha's yeah you know this yeah okay I didn't know um okay and it was invented they were developed by a general in the army here they didn't come from me but anyway so I just I'll send this to everybody if you want it later but back to this um so the terms this was a part of CEDO kind of extrapolating a little bit and I'm not sure I agree with it but steering committee members will serve one-year terms commencing on September 1st and concluding on August 31st of the subsequent year positions filled at other times throughout the year will be subject to renewal during regular scheduled and September NPA meetings this part after serving four consecutive one-year terms a steering committee member must step down from their position in a full for a full year before becoming eligible to seek a reappointment unless otherwise specified in Article 3 regarding the filling of vacancies um I I don't I think that might be problematic not and I'm not thinking of myself because we're here now um but I think about it in for marginalized populations like people are surviving in their own ways living in um a society that doesn't reflect them and that they often don't feel included in and so for folks who um may step forward there I think they're fewer and they can be fewer and far between and and those populations and for that reason um um I think we might be limiting uh we can just get rid of it and we're going to turn once you okay with that is everybody okay with that I am obviously because people can be removed at any time if someone was problematic they can be removed yeah but you don't want to get into the thing where there's it's always the same people always making the decisions right and they just keep getting reelected well it's it's the membership that collects I think Vicky's point is really important well I agree with like the the percentage of people that are not white in the state yeah if it'd be like oh you're getting kicked off you're the only person that yeah and then if that's that we have more diversity and that that's not ish but let's just like not get rid of people just because some random well I yeah but another thought is too thinking about it in that time as we are a changing body hopefully I've watched the demographic face of Burlington change my entire life and I'm so grateful for the changes because when I was at Shipley elementary school oh my gosh um did you attend that as a kid yes my family were the only black children in the school with the exception of two other children in the entire school hard and by the time I got there I think one of my brothers was already out of there maybe two of so it was just three of us um and so I also think of it in terms of as we do change you know my hope is that there will be more people stepping up to be involved and I guess it can always be revisited at that time yeah true let's get rid of it um you good with the Deb you good with the Hank yeah so I just want to point out we're getting on to getting close to six o'clock yes is everybody open to going past six o'clock to try to further this conversation is anybody a little bit past sure how about six fifteen give us those I am we have another meeting tonight yeah you do well it's at 6 30 right so are you are you okay with going to 6 15 or do you want more of a gap between the two yeah I need to leave about 10 after for a previous yeah I don't really want it so you want to end at six I think we just talked about starting meetings on time and ending them okay so you want a rough start so let's face but you can also yeah but you can also ask if people are okay with extending and if you aren't okay with extending that's okay I'm just asking the question so if you're not okay with extending that's okay no problem okay I feel like I have a better sense okay okay next meeting will surely be able to start on time okay I think like today we laid some foundation do we want to make a mark like make a note of where we ended well it's it that's all the changes I made and again if people are going to be looking at this if we all focus on this one compare it to the other one and then come back yeah yeah then we'll have something concrete and also I do want to keep all of the stuff CEDO put at the bottom I don't care about the conflict of interest because I don't know how you don't have conflict of interest when you live in a community but as far as the miscellaneous stuff yeah I like it all so what do you like it all you said or you don't like it there's there's two things that I think we need to add to really address what the city council's directives related to specifically what happened in our ward which is we need a sexual harassment policy in our bylaws and we need a grievance process so that people are not left so those are not what city hall said for us to do we don't need a sexual harassment policy I don't think that's what they city has yeah no it's not that I have it right here what do you mean I I think for me for me Vicki what occurred around transgender extends into sexual harassment and I think it is part of what happened so we can we can we can we can talk about it more next time um and then the other thing is having a clear grievance process so if you are experiencing something that you have somebody to turn to that you can go to with confidence that they will support you um and addressing it so so let's let's just table table this conversation until next time and and we can take out from there so do we want to choose a date well I just want to follow up so the fourth things the city said you have to have okay it's non-discrimination yep right election and removal of officers that's both in here open meeting law that's already in here yep and conflict of interest that's already in here those are the four components they said have to be included okay okay so do we want to go do we want to go above and beyond sure in a way that to protect people I mean why wouldn't you want to go it's not I mean yeah I I mean it that I don't see any problem at all with adding that in in fact I think it would be wise to so let's table it because we agreed that we're gonna end on time that we're not going to extend so that's okay so let's table that it's totally cool and we'll just take it up at our next meeting is that good for everybody or do we want to extend for five more minutes have a conversation Vicki any thoughts I'm happy to table up till next meeting I'm happy to do whatever okay okay good um you're good Hank no don't mean to ignore you he's like I'm leaving yeah okay so we'll just we'll just have a little more conversation about that okay and um yeah and so can we can we're concluding today's meeting that we're good are you good all in favor all right okay