 All right. And now hold on. I got to go back to the thing to find the script that I have to read. Not there. Not there. Right here. All right, pursuant to chapter 20 of the act of 2021. The meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting can do so by clicking on the live link to the zoom meeting that can be found on the public meetings calendar on the town of Amherst website or by dialing in by phone. The public is able to comment during the public comment segment of the posted agenda by raising their hand. This meeting is being recorded and will be posted to the town of Amherst YouTube channel. And I see no members of the public present. All right. Correct. And Robert is here. Yay. So we're all here. The gangs out here. And I believe Maureen was planning on popping in at some point. So hopefully we'll hear from her. All right. Did, um, Did everybody read minutes. From the last meeting. Yes, I did. Yep, I did. Okay. Does anybody have any corrections to the minutes from October? No. Nope. Okay. I move that we approve the minutes. From October. All right. Maureen is here. Hold on. Oh, so now we got one member. Yep. So all, all approved say aye to the minutes. All right. All right. Minutes are approved. Wait, how do I get her in? Hold on. She's got her. Wait. This. I don't know if that's right. Hold on. Okay. Does anybody remember specifically how to get her in here? Oh, more. Promote. There it is. Okay. Yeah. Did you find it? I clicked on the thing, but I'm not seeing her popping in. I clicked on. Under host. You go to this little dot. Here she is. Okay. It's just, I guess it just takes a minute to go up to space and come back down, right? Hi, Maureen. I had a correction for the November 2nd meeting minutes. It says that I was there to start the meeting and I was not. So that needs to be stricken. Well, when did you come in? It is noted later on when I did come in. I was there. I was there. Thanks. And the ones who would, now do you think we need to approve those minutes officially since it wasn't an official meeting? I wasn't in an official meeting. Are we talking about November 2nd? Yeah. The November 2nd meeting. It wasn't like a super official. Well, I think we should approve them and we did. And we would just make that correction by unanimous consent. So I'm taking Maureen. Off of the people at the beginning of the meeting, but she was there later, right? Right. She's shown it was not. I did not start that meeting, but I would, I showed up. I'm sorry. I said, I'm at you. Well, that's, do you remember exactly when you were on the, on the agenda you came in because. So how many people did we have before you showed up? I think it was. Four, including Maureen. It was Maureen, Terry, Lori, and yourself at that meeting at the opening. And then I showed up late. Yeah. Do you remember when, because we didn't have a quorum until you showed up. Oh, it's noted in the minutes. It's right there in the minutes. Like you put it in there when I showed up. Okay. Thank you. I'm not sure when I did, but the notes know. Okay, that's fine. I just can't read it. I've got too much stuff on my computer to look. Okay. Now do you. With that, does anyone else have any other corrections for those minutes? I'm, I moved to approve those minutes with those corrections in mind. Or with that correction in mind. I second. All right. I'll prove, say I. I'll do it. Okay. All right. All right. Now. I mean, it's approved. Next, we should be doing share report, but I feel like I would rather. Be respectful of Maureen's time and go to making it public. Since we don't have any public comments. Because there's no public here. So I think we should be doing share report. And then we should be moving into the making it public project, especially since that's like, you know, our gigantic. Looming project right now. There was, did everybody get a chance to browse the, what happened? Some of those decisions and whatnot. I have some notes like. About that. It was really interesting to keep to. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Many of those things. But in the, in the notes, it says that Kendrick. The Kendrick Park. Grinspoon sculpture is. It's noted as a permanent. Piece, but that's actually a temporary piece. All of Grinspoon's pieces are meant to be like only last, like maybe two years. So I think that's really important. And I think that in those notes would be encouraging. For people to understand like just how. Like semi permanent. Temporary could be, you know, as their interpretations. You know what I mean? And I was happy to see temporary, like, right in the title of it. So I think that's important. And. Anybody else have any. Stuff I've got more things, but I don't want to like just rail on my big list here. I'm sorry. I kind of lost the trade. What, what were we correcting or talking about? Well, I was just talking about like, um, the notes in general. What notes. The, the notes. Well, the, what was it called? Not my notes. No, the one from Maureen. Yeah. Yeah. All for artists. Um, draft. Okay, fine. Essentially. This is, this is, I mean, my is again and get to the actual like. And this is under making it public, right? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Let me see if I can share my screen. That's something I've never done in one of these things. I'm not sure it's the same thing, but I don't know if it's the same. I think it would be helpful if you share your screen with your. It's green. It says share screen with the arrow pointing up. Click it. Shashana, would it be helpful if I shared my screen? Yes, yes. You probably do this a lot more than I do. Okay. Thanks, everyone. Oh, yeah. Yes. Perfect. Oh, that's even the spot right there with the. The grid. Yeah. What are we doing? This is what they put together for the call for artist. Oh, so there was a document displayed, which was the call for artists. Yeah. And it's a great document. It's got like all this great information in there. Okay. James, did you not receive it? I didn't get it for some unknown reason. Can you just scroll up for a minute? Let me get the. Oh yeah. Sorry about that. I thought I emailed everyone. Oh, I didn't get it either. Who just said that? No, I didn't get it either. Open call for. I don't know. I'm sorry guys. Okay. Well, if it's helpful, I could walk everyone through this. So at the last meeting with that last week. November 2nd. November 2nd, yeah. I shared a draft review for the open call for artists for the temporary public art project. So the town has been given $10,000 to put out a call to artists for temporary art. And so this would be the call. This call needs to go out by the end of this calendar year to meet the needs of the grant source, who is the New England Foundation for the Arts. And then next year we could, the artist will install the art piece and have a ribbon cutting and all that. So that can take place next year, but this is the call. And so I can walk you through the different sections. It's just, well, that's six pages down, but we won't. Marie, make sure to email that please. I have to put that with the minutes. Oh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. So the first paragraph is just saying, we're doing a call for artists for proposals, focusing in the downtown Amherst area. And then that's being founded by the New England Foundation for the Arts in partnership with the Metropolitan Area Planning, Council, Arts and Culture District and Forecast Public Art. They're a nonprofit for art and then with staff support, i.e. me from the planning department. And so at the last meeting, we reviewed the project overview and scope. And, you know, although this link right here, we can go do it real quick. It shows existing public art in town and there's a real focus in downtown. And it was pointed out that this does need to be updated. For instance, the temporary art at Kendrick Park is not shown. This is the portal. This was an art piece that looked like this. I don't believe that is no longer there, but the other sort of tree public art installation by the playground is there. And but this is a really good useful document for, you know, I think your commission and then for people, your commission in general and the public, but in particular for anyone applying for this grant. This sort of get a sense of what kind of art does exist here in Amherst. And so we thought that the focus should be keeping with the theme of art downtown and doing this call for an artist to create new original artists designed or fabricated temporary public art. And after speaking with multiple staff members in the planning department, we wanted to offer two locations for consideration Kendrick Park and Sweetser Park. I did reach out to Dave Zomac, the assistant town manager and he is the director of conservation development about the, there was a idea last time about considering something along the Robert Frost trail. And Dave said, that's a wonderful idea somewhere, Nate, perhaps along Robert Frost trail or he then actually even suggested the commission to explore Mount Pollux as another opportunity, especially since it has like such a beautiful view but you feel that particularly the Robert Frost trail, at least for this project, since we have such a limited time this needs to go out by the end of this calendar year that there's a lot of complexities of doing something around Robert, along the Robert Frost trail, like we would want to make sure that the trail is completely ADA accessible. There's parking that's adjacent to it that is also ADA accessible. And then just making sure that if it needs to go through the conservation commission that it goes through those channels. And so, and getting on those agendas does take a couple of months in the making. So he did feel just like those factors alone that perhaps we should just focus in the downtown for now. And then in the future, he definitely loves the idea of temporary art on conservation trails or properties. And then we had, so temporary art examples considered under this call could be mural sculptures, integrated architectural or landscape architectural work, community art or digital new media. I did previously suggest and we discussed performance and festivals. I reached out to a couple of folks. I reached out to Gabrielle Gould who's the part of the Amherst bid and the Drake and the cultural district. And I talked to Jen Moisten who it works in the DEI office and it's been spearheading the Juneteenth event. And she and others have organized that two years in a row. And they both agree that this grant is up to $10,000 and having a one day event is very costly. And so like the block party costs about $20, $25,000 and the Juneteenth celebration, all that costs about the same. And so they both said, given that there's a lot of complexities about that and that we have such limited time to sort of turn this call around that perhaps maybe that's something that groups entities could focus on like this commission or the local cultural district can spearhead events. So I definitely respect both of Jennifer Moisten and Gabrielle Gould's opinion on this. And so that's my suggestion to this commission to maybe just focus on something like physical instead of an event just because of the time and the complexities and the costs. And then temporary art installation timeline, the project is temporary nature. I said one day, minimum timeframe of one day thinking of an event, but maybe if we aren't thinking about events we could say something like three months or whatever, three months to one year, six months to three years, we could play with that. And then what is this? And then so, I forget if I already said this. Oh yeah, so Kendrick Park or Tsutsa Park was an idea from town staff, both in downtown along ADA accessible routes and in very populated areas and all that. And the way it describes it makes it seem like it has to be in either Kendrick or Sweester in that there's not like a space for someone else to have an idea. You know what I mean? As far as like what an artist might propose. So are we definitely like nailing it down to one of the two parks at this point? With the plan? I think we talked about the fact that it may be easier for us to put an open call if we selected a location first, but that was still kind of up in the air for us to decide. And that's why we have these two in mind. Yeah, and I think either location would work really well. They're both very visible and eye-catching from the street from people driving by or people walking by and that are just going for a casual walk and then stumbling upon art. There's that new playground that's at Kendrick Park with walkways around the park and then there is even that temporary art installation. So it could look nicely with that. And then Sweets of Park is a nice, lovely space that has benches, some picnic tables and there are events during the summer there through, I don't know if it's the, they have a concert series. And so that could be a really nice, like a nice piece for those attending that. And it's also right across from the police station. So it's very visible and they'll definitely be well lit and I don't think anyone's gonna be messing around in front of the police station. Although, the dialogue is right across from the police station too and that didn't save it. But that's a whole other kettle of fish. Yeah. And then, so I'll get in contact with Grinspoon to find out like how long the lifespan is of the piece that's in there now. Cause it will be an issue on like, does this new piece of art have to jive with the one that's up there now or is that gonna be removed by the time this installation goes in? Is that Shona saying that? What's that? Was that Shona? Yeah. Oh, here we go. So here's another. It's not like, normally I think the lifespan is just when it falls apart, he takes it out, but we can't really make plans around it with that idea. So I'll see if he's got any other ideas. Do you think it's an issue that if it's still there or you just wanna make sure that it wouldn't get removed? Well, I just think like as far as like what another artist would wanna know, like do they wanna, you know, they might wanna know whether or not this is gonna be like a competing thing in the space that they're thinking about. And like maybe they wanna do something that would, you know, sing in harmony with that. Or, you know what I mean? Or maybe that won't be an issue at all because it won't be there. And so it'll be just their space. Like just to help the artist get a vision of, you know, what their plan is. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it helped in my knowing if it's there or not, it might help influence their aesthetic or the scale, whether that art piece is still there during that timeframe. Yeah. And then, so another note, I did, I shared this call to artists with Paul Bochleman, the town manager, and with Pamela Young, the director of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion Office and Jen Moisten, who's the assistant director of the DEI office to get both all three of their input. They all agreed that they really liked this draft and that they're happy that this is finally gonna happen and that I'm working with you all. They're all very excited. Pamela did suggest that, she said, my only suggestion would be to have a theme that celebrates the BIPOC or other marginalized communities in a recent listening session sponsored by the African Heritage Reparations Assembly. A number of students noted that the lack of BIPOC representation in public spaces, I think that is also true for members of other marginalized groups. Great. And so this paragraph, hold on a second, is this the paragraph, oh yeah. So this is the paragraph that gets into, we had initially thought, well, maybe there shouldn't be a theme, maybe, or maybe there should, should leave it open, let the artist decide who's submitting their proposal or not. And so I wanted to hear your input on that and if that could be something that could be captured in this call with Pamela's suggestion. Well, originally in that meeting in August with all those other people, they were all very adamant about leaving it completely open so that an artist would be unrestrained in their inspiration. Who was adamant? I'm sorry. It was a group of people like, Gabriel Gould was there, Eric Brody was there. And some other people like from around town, like power players from around town. So I think if we keep it very wide open, then as long as we have a good panel that has, you know, that we choose, then we can make sure to choose something that we think is more representative, you know. We could leave it open like that, that does encourage more people to apply. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. There's also a spot about like, you know, we will be encouraging BIPOC to apply. Like it's not just as a theme, but like, but also in like in the encouragement that's in another spot. Is it like down a little bit if we scroll down on this document? Sure. So this, just as we're breezing by this, this is a context and background. I did just take this off the website. So I'm not as creative as you may think. So this just talks about whatever the website got to do. I did find it interesting that there was so much talk about the trees. And I was like, oh. I did have to research this part. So UMass, the Museum of Contemporary Art, if you recall, if you were living in Amherst in 2018, they did a temporary art like installation. It was called like XTCA, Frost Town Contemporary Art and outdoor public art exhibition. And it was art connecting the UMass campus to downtown. And so there was like this whole sort of pathway that had exhibits on various properties. And one was on Kendrick Park. And you can find out more with this link provided. It was pretty cool. And then they even had like maybe a conference and they had a parade at the end. And it was a really well thought out exhibit. And that's actually how we got the Grinspoon there. Everybody liked the Grinspoon so much, he left it there. And then when that fell apart, he gave us this new replacement one that is there now. Yeah. And then this paragraph just gets into the history of Kendrick Park. There were multiple homes there and slowly they all were either demolished or relocated. And if you click on this link, it gives you even more history of Kendrick Park and the Kendrick family. And then Sweets are Park. And then I have Google links to Google Maps so someone could figure out where it's located because there's no house, there's no address. So I couldn't type in like 10 Main Street. It's up so that was the best way of showing that location. And then this gets into some of the history of the property. And I meant to just go out and take a photograph. I feel like maybe I didn't provide a photo, but yeah, it gets into the history of the property. And then if you click here, it brings you to the town website where there's more information. This whole Google doc, or this whole doc is in our Google docs on our Amherst Public Art Commission Google group page thing. I'd love to be able to get in there. I can't access it. Oh, I thought we got you in there. It's still tricky to get in there. Yeah, I wish we could change the securities on it. Yeah. Well, hopefully I have all your emails and I'll double check and I'll try to email us off after tonight's meeting. And then this paragraph just gets into like, you can receive up to $10,000 covering all costs including design fee, materials, fabrications, transportation and installation. Yeah, actually I was thinking the $10,000 should maybe go up higher, like right up at the beginning so that like right away when they're looking at it, they've got a mind like, okay, this is a big project. This is serious. Yeah, thank you. I'm just gonna write $10,000. Well, what does that say? Because if you say, this is going to be up to $10,000 covering all costs and somebody has $11,000 worth of costs, they're gonna say you agreed to cover all the costs to give me my living grant. So you gotta be careful how you word it. That's all. Yeah, that's a really good point. So I guess one thing that should be noted and I will work with our finance department and then people, others in the planning department, we would want them to make sure to provide and I'm gonna highlight this is submit like a proposed budget. So that they, they should know line item by line item, what everything should cost. And yeah, and if it is, turns out to be more than $10,000, they would have to pay for that. But they would, based on, there would be a selection committee that will be really thinking about this is what the types of submissions provided, how professional are they, how well fought are they, those are something that will be like a really important aspect of reviewing proposals. And then this bullet of the list gets into guidelines and specifications. So this is a site specific work, be mindful of the location, it's history and current day use. The selected artist is responsible of costs of design, fabrication, delivery and assisting in installation of their art piece to the designated location on schedule. The selected artist will be responsible for maintenance of their art piece for a maximum of one year. I guess, yeah. Yep. And maybe that needs to be fleshed out more. Yeah. Let me just put in review. Okay. Selection criteria will include but not limited to a static site specific town originality, safety, visibility, is it feasible durability and ADA accessibility? In that selection criteria should we mention something about the diversity that we're looking for something that's represents a diversity in our town or would that be, is that further down? Yeah, I did it. Yeah, there is something that's over there. But no, yeah, but you make it. Yeah, there is. It's an election process. Okay. In the eligibility, I was actually thinking it might be good to put in disabled and neurodivergent as well as, because we've got like, you know, the BIPOC, the queer and the trans. I think it would be nice to put in disabled and neurodivergent as well. Maybe we'll play that a little bit. Yeah, we need a board. Persons with abilities. Thank you. Include a, well, isn't neurodivergent an example of a disability? Not necessarily. There's such a broad spectrum that it's not protected under a disability. I think you could say neurodivergent. Sorry, you're going to quickly realize that I'm not the greatest speller. Neither am I. Neurodivergent, is that neurodivergent? See, that's why they gave us squiggly lines Let me just highlight it so I can remember to just spell check that. Could I just make a suggestion on that in terms of eligibility? I feel like maybe we should get some input from the diversity folks in town. My concern is that enlisting lots of groups we might exclude someone unintentionally. So I guess I would defer to the folks in the diversity, equity and inclusion office. I'm sure they have experience in terms of language to use to make it the most inclusive. I just wouldn't want to, as I said, unintentionally exclude somebody if we're being specific about listing. Sure. Yeah, I agree. It's good to have that resource available to us. My other question along those lines is so I see that, so will someone from the DEI office definitely be on the selection committee or how, you know, if the theme is open-ended but we know that we want to encourage underrepresented artists to participate. My first question is how do we make sure that this is shared with everyone in the community? And then in terms of the selection committee and criteria, I'm just curious about more specifics regarding those. Yeah, you make really excellent questions. I did afford this draft called the artist to Pamela Young and Jennifer Moyson who both work in the DEI office. And they reviewed it, they liked it. Their only suggestion was to consider having a theme that celebrates the BIPOC or other marginalized communities. And then your question is how do we reach out to BIPOC, residents who are BIPOC or other marginalized communities? And again, this call is not just limited to residents of Amherst. This is gonna be open to the public. We hope that other regional and maybe state art organizations will help promote this. But within Amherst, we can certainly provide electronic, we're gonna list this on the website, put it on social media. I can share this with different, with the DEI office and see if they have sort of like an email list. And there are various town boards such as the African Heritage Reparations Assembly or a commission in reaching out and giving them like the flyer, the link to bring them to the application and ask them, can you help share this information? We can certainly share this with different apartment buildings throughout town by email, we can share this with various non-profits and reach out. I would hope that the Amherst cultural district and the local cultural district will help spread the word as well as this commission has social media presence to help spread the word out there. And yeah, I'm definitely open to suggestions of how to ensure that there's enough community engagement that encourages BIPOC or other marginalized communities to apply for this grant opportunity. Well, I'm also wondering, I mean, I'm familiar a bit with Center for New Americans. I know there are other organizations that work with immigrant communities. It might be useful. I don't know if we're able to translate this into any other languages, but in terms of casting the widest net possible, if that's something that can be explored. We could certainly explore translating this in Spanish, for instance, and I'm working on another town project with the Senior Services Department. We're on its age-friendly and dementia-friendly community project and we've provided materials and talks in Spanish. And so I'm happy to sort of use those resources and apply them here. What about for Chinese? We have a lot of Chinese in town. I would have to see if we have resources for someone that could help us translate in Chinese. I work for Jewish Family Service of Western Mass and we have a very large New American program. We do translate, like there's a Google translate on our website to translate into the various languages of for our clients. However, I don't think those translations are great. They don't always work. There is the translation center at UMass that might be able to help translate depending on what language is, but then it does kind of get tricky because what languages do you choose? Yeah. I think in terms of New Americans, I would say most of the clients that we serve who are refugees, we serve them for five years and generally they're not at a place to be able to generally wouldn't be ready to do something like this within their first five years, but... Well, at least they could have the opportunity to participate if they wanted to. And I think that's where something could happen. I think it's like how to get it out there in a broader way. I'm not sure that any of them would see it. And just knowing what that population is, they're very, it's mostly in the lower valley close to the upper valley, so I'm not sure exactly. Yeah, I will say so. For the age-friendly project that I worked on, we did a survey that was targeted to Amherst seniors. And I reached out to the Amherst regional schools and I can't think of the person in the superintendent's office who I spoke to, I can't think of her name, Sasha, no. Debbie Westmoreland. Say that one more time. Debbie Westmoreland. No, no, not Debbie. It will come to me, but so they... Say that again. Was it Marta Guarva? No. Okay. They need to have translators. Yeah, so the way that they do male communication is they offer in Spanish, English and then in Spanish. And then they have a page that will say in... It's in four other languages. If you give me a second, I can look it up. But it's in like Mandarin. Just give me one second, because now I don't want to misspeak. One second. Age-friendly project. Okay, we can all look together. This is the age-friendly community project page. So we mimicked the regional school system. The schools know what languages are being spoken in schools. And we noticed that there are a lot of multi-generational health holds and Amherst. And so they were able to say there's these languages being spoken. So anyways, we offered in full English and then in Spanish. And then we had availability in Korean, Kim Air, and in Portuguese. And those were just statements that said in Korean, Kim Air, and Chinese that if they had... If they needed assistance that they should call this number and then we could set them up with someone from UMass Translation Services. That sounds good. Yeah. Okay, so... Or any... Again, if there are any... Chris, it wouldn't be able to read it necessarily. But if there's any other languages that aren't included there that we can help facilitate the translations. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, so then maybe let me scroll up to where we were. Did we review this? You know, we discussed last time about... You know, I did find this in another call to artists. It was for a sculpture. And they liked the call that I noticed. They got specific about... You know, it has to be on a 4x4 concrete foot pad, you know, and on either Kendrick Park or Suitsa Park. So if the commission wants to sort of limit the scale of a piece, this would be an effective way of saying, well, it has to be within this 4x4 concrete foot pad. And that it needs to be connected to that. So that's something that, you know, could be part of this call or you could just leave it up to the artist and determine the measurements and the scale of it. I feel like the way that it's written, it makes it seem like this is a concrete pad that already exists. And then that turns it into an expense for the town to put that in, you know what I mean? Whereas they wouldn't be considering that part as part of their budget, because it feels like in this description that it's already there. Yeah. You know, the one group I haven't reached out to is our DPW and to see their thoughts about, would they, do they like the idea of having a pad and could, do they have a cost estimate for a concrete pad? Because, you know, maybe we could just say, we could budget out whatever it, let's just pretend, putting in a concrete pad costs $1,000. Maybe the grant incorporates that $1,000. Or we just put it on the artist to figure it out and then figure out the size and would be responsible for budgeting that out. I'm really reluctant to require somebody that's been 10% for a foundation of, foundation of his total grant. This seems like an awful lot of money for, instead of going to the art, it goes to a piece of concrete. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, you know what, I, to be honest, I haven't given much thought about this. I have no idea how much a concrete pad costs and maybe DPW could be like, you know what, don't worry about it, we'll take care of that portion and we'll pay for it. So if you don't mind, I'd like to talk to them to get their understanding, because that would be a component, most likely, is how is it gonna attach to the earth and who should be responsible, someone's gonna have to pay for it. Yeah. So who's gonna, who's gonna be responsible for that? So let me just highlight this part. And then durable, easy to maintain, install, theft and temper, temper resistant, resilient, resistant to cutting sawing with handheld or non-power tools, graffiti resistant, non-flammable materials should not be sharp edges or features likely to cause injury. And then the public art committee responsibilities to coordinate and with my assistance would help coordinate installation with the selected artist in the town, provide contract and payment to the selected artist. That's probably really me in finance department and we'll announce and help publicize the selected design. And then the selection process, it would be the selection committee would consist of staff members such as planner, the tree warden, the DEI director, members of the public art commission with additional representation from the town's disability access advisory committee and the design review board. The design review board does have jurisdiction to review exterior changes in the downtown. And so we would wanna get their input as well. And then selection criteria will include aesthetics, interactive components, originality, safety, durability and ADA accessibility. And then the call would be open to anyone that's 18 or older. Town is actively committed to sporting arts and artists from historically unrepresentative and marginalized groups of people. And this would be the language that I would wanna just double check with the DEI office to see that that is well articulated and like located in the call to artists in general. Applicants can be based anywhere though local and regional applicants will be prioritized. Previous experience with designing and fabricating public art or I guess since we would be getting rid of this event for this particular project is strongly encouraged and recommended though not necessary all designs and proposals must be feasible and structurally sound by design application that are feasible or structurally sound will be removed from consideration. I need to talk to our IT department. Applicants will be accepted through website, town website and also be mailed or delivered to the following address. The selected artist must be able to provide a W9 form in order to be paid by the town of Amherst. I need to just double check with the finance department just to make sure that if anything else needs to be. So I just have a comment on the W9 requirements. So that eliminates any non-resident aliens. Is that the intention? Yes, it would. Pardon? Yeah, I think that's a good point. Because someone technically could be eligible. The W8 form is what a non-resident alien. Oh, W8, W8. So you might want to just review that with the town finance folks. Just in the past, it's always been a W9 that we've done. Right. So a W9 is specifically for someone with a social security number. But I guess my point is if there potentially could be an artist who is a non-resident alien who's living here and working here, but doesn't have a US social security number. There's no reason why you can't say a W8 or W9. That's really good information. Honestly, I looked at many sort of RFPs out there. And so I kind of took here, took there. And I had never heard of a W8 before. So this is, yeah. Again, I would suggest just reviewing with the finance folks just to make sure. See, that's why we got Robert on the team here. Could I just go back to the selection committee for a second? So everyone, I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are about including a member or two of just the general public. And specifically I was thinking of, even though the call is for artists 18 years and older, thinking about perhaps inclusion of a high school student on the selection committee. I think that would be excellent. Why? What are you trying to accomplish on? I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is engagement, involvement, trying to, I feel like, I just recall that after the George Floyd killing on the town comm and there was an event for the community. And I remember some high school kids spoke very eloquently about their experiences in the school system, feeling marginalized. And I guess if we're again trying to demonstrate the inclusivity of this project, I feel like it's a way to make some connections. Well, I hear you. Give them a, and help them have a voice in the process. I think that's an excellent question. The other side of the coin, I hate to be politically incorrect or anything because I teach high school students. I've been, I've done it for 17 years or more. And I kept hearing the comments about how he had to have a really powerful, very expert committee. And a teenager probably doesn't fit that description. So... Well, who, I'm sorry, Jim, not to, when you say we have to have an expert committee, who's... Well, we were talking about that earlier, that's all. So I'm just picking up on that. And it depends upon what you want to do, but it's a selection committee where you wanna... I mean, your goals of promoting everything you said about the promotion of teens. I agree with, in fact, I spent a lot of time trying to do that. On the other hand, a selection committee to pick out art and you put somebody on there that arguably doesn't have the experience needed. I mean, is that, that's a cost. And is that cost worth it? Is there some other way we could do the same thing without putting them on the selection committee? Well, I guess I question what the ultimate goal is. I mean, we obviously want something that is, I don't know, aesthetically pleasing. I guess my feeling is high school students have a sense of aesthetics. And I guess I don't look at this as a juried competition necessarily, I mean, I understand your point, but I guess I also feel like, I don't know, it's public art, after all. And if we're trying to get the input from the public, we would want the variety of voices that make up the public. Yeah, I don't see a cost. It's my feeling. I think cost is that teenagers' brains develop until they're age 25. So if you want the best possible. Well, we do allow 18-year-olds to vote, after all. I know we do, but I'm just, I'm trying to make this. I mean, I don't know what I would vote on this. I'm just making this. Having just came from teaching a bunch of teenagers today, I mean, they don't have the same abilities physiologically in terms of judgment and delay of instant gratification in forming their judgments as people who are older. So that doesn't mean you can't put them on there, but I just wanted to make clear that when you do that, you're getting a different kind of judge. Yeah, I wouldn't want to like stack the whole selection committee with teenagers, but I think having at least one would be, I'm thinking like maybe someone from the Sunshine Committee, aren't they involved in art projects already, like in the community? I think that would be not only maybe a good fit for us, but a good learning opportunity for them to like have someone that is interested in this kind of process to see it like actually happening. For being a part of it. What is the Sunshine Committee? Sorry, I'm not familiar with that. It's a group of kids at the high school that they do a lot of like art projects and they're also very active politically. I've got to agree with Robert. I think they forgot to have an open call for artists for applicants 18 years and older. I think we should definitely be inviting a high school student or two to the selection committee. It doesn't cost us anything. I'll make one more point and then I'll shut up. The judge is probably going to be younger than the applicants can be. Yeah, I like the idea of it being diverse. It extends the age diversity to have someone younger. And to me, that also represents a large part of our town community, which are people who will be seeing it young people and getting them engaged and involved in art in our town. So I like the idea. How about a college student? Yeah, I would be open to that. I also don't see the list or maybe I'm missing it, but representation from the town from not just staff, but from the town. So a student would be that. See, I would feel pretty good about making it a college student because I find it somewhat, it's like cognitive dissonance almost to say that if you're 17, you're too young to submit, but you're old enough to judge. So if you made it college students, that wouldn't be an issue. And I guess that's where I'm thinking it over. I'd like to have a young person too. I think I'd like to have a young person like that in college. I guess my response to a college student though is that a college student doesn't necessarily consider Amherst their home the way I was for a student. That's true. I've experienced that quite a bit because I'm also on the tree committee and we plant a lot. And there's, I've seen a lot of students that just do not consider Amherst. They just consider a space that they go to school and they're not, they don't really have a connection. Whereas like someone who's grown up here, born and raised in Amherst. True enough. It's part of their blood. Is there a- And they know downtown very well because they hang out there all the time. Is there, if I may, does anyone know if there's like an art club at the high school? There's all sorts of different committees of art at the high school. I worked there. Oh, okay. I can work on that. I know all the art teachers quite well. So maybe they could help solicit interests in art students or art, to get the, yeah. This could be a really good learning experience for them. And maybe there could be sort of a two-way track of there could be a general selection committee and then there could be a selection committee through the regional high school. And they could provide a point to help influence the main selection committee. I'm just thinking out loud. Thinking like that's being advised. If we can put something together, I can add to all the art teachers. And also the Sunshine Committee. So are you talking about having an advisory committee? Is that what you're saying? To the selection committee made up of a group of teenagers? Harry? Well, I think she was talking about like a point system. If we did, when we do the actual selection, a lot of times we'll use this point system to like have someone emerge with the most points at the end. And if like one point comes from the kids, then that would like be their portion of the voting. Is that correct? What you're talking about? Yeah, I was, yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking out loud, but I think Terry had something to say and maybe- Yeah, I think we all have excellent suggestions. This is a really great thing to talk about, but we're going down the rabbit hole. This does not, we don't have to decide this right now. We're still needed to work on this call and we need to get this call done and out. So we can talk about the selection committee at any time, but we need to get this part done. So I just suggest that we move along. Yes, I agree. I agree. Okay, so maybe we could say additional representation from the DAAC, the DRB- Oh, yeah, the public. And members of the public. And so we can leave it open. And then, yeah, and then continue talking about this. Yeah, I think this is a really great idea in general public. And wait, and member, and whoops, sorry, and members of the public. Okay, cool. And then I'm just going to highlight it, so I don't forget. Okay, and then we talked about eligibility. I think we, so we made it to W-8. And then again, this is about undereligible. Yeah, I think we were about to go down to timeline. Yeah, and so this is all open. It depends on, again, I need to get this out. It would be nice to get this out, maybe like the first week of, just like right after Thanksgiving, like the first week of December, and then figure out how long a call should be. I know that obviously the holidays. So it could be something generous, like the last week of January would be the deadline to apply. Yeah, I think having like over a month for a deadline is good, but then we should also have like a secret plan to extend it to have like on the, because like usually with the cultural council, I find that like on the day of, they usually send out a thing saying, oh, we've extended it for like another couple of days. And it's always like, oh, yes, thank God. So I think like a secret extension would be good. That's a good point. So like, August, you know, they always wait till the last second, right? So. Just to clarify the requirements of the grant, so that the call needs to go out by December 31st, correct? Mm-hmm, yep. And then is there another deadline in terms of submissions or project? Are there other targets that need to be met? It just needs to be installed by the end of 2023. And so if, and so you'll see these bullet, this continued bullet of the list is. Yeah, I really like this timeline. I was just kind of thinking out loud. Yeah, so if, you know, I would say if it's the end of January is the deadline and then you would have February and March, maybe by the end of March, the artist is announced. And between when March and summer, July, fabrication of the public art piece in contracting is worked out with the artist. And then between July and September, within that timeframe, that artwork would be installed and payment would be issued to the artist. And then we would have some sort of public unveiling and community celebration in September and October or October. Sorry, when was the proposal due back at the end of January, did you say? Yes, and that's completely negotiable. Yeah, I guess I would defer to people in the group who are artists. I have no idea how much time an artist would need to put something together obviously with the holidays in December, et cetera. Yeah, you know, it could be, you know, mid-February. Yeah, to be honest, I'm not confident in that either. And then throwing it in the holidays is another. I don't think a month is enough myself. Okay, yeah. I would like it if it's possible to push it into like early February, I think that would be better. Yeah, I'll just say early to mid-February. Yeah, no, this is really good. And then it'll be in 2023. Oh, yeah, I can catch. And then, yeah, let's think about that. So then that's the submission deadline. And then I would say like, maybe March, April, it thinks it might just get shifted. And I think it's fine if this sort of organic, this part organically gets shifted a little bit. But what are your thoughts about, is September October? I think selection could take a quicker amount of time. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think like, you know, it doesn't take, because usually it'll happen in like one meeting. Like all of the stuff will get like put together, and then there'll be one meeting where all these people get together and then that point system is used. Okay, yeah. All right, so maybe we'll just say, well, we can say March and strive for that. Yeah, and then, because then that gives all the more time for the artists to actually like execute their plan and stage it for putting it in for installation. Yeah, and then this, I just, I think I just took it off the website. This is the purpose of your commission is to foster a greater community awareness of the interaction with public art and through public art promote cultural diversity and an improved quality of life for Amherst citizens. And perhaps this should be the placement of this should go up a bit, but you know, I'm happy to, or you guys, if you guys are happy to host a infosex session or I can, again, I'm sort of stinking out loud here, but we could certainly offer some sort of info session which before the applications are due. Okay. To take any questions and yeah, any questions about it. Sometimes I can, applications can feel overwhelming. Yeah. It could be maybe. So maybe early January. Oh, so actually, so that could be the debt and the timeline. Ooh, look at that. Workshop, so January and then that would be, whoops, maybe the workshop. So I mean, I had a question, two questions about what happens after the selection committee chooses an artist, like the time period between selection and when the fabrication happens. Do we, is there anything that we need to write in about like who the liaison would be or like if they're gonna check in with the commission at some point, like attend a meeting and like show their progress. Is there anything like that that usually that we usually put into these kinds of things? Yeah. To kind of help there be somebody who's tasked with kind of checking in and seeing how they're doing and are they come to us and say, this is where I am on the project and I expect to have this by this date. Is that something that we need to write into this or is that something we don't do? I feel like that's a good idea because like of the price tag involved with this product. Like normally, no, you know, but that's always been a much smaller project. I think they need a designated person that they can like a representative they can talk to if they're having problems, if they have any questions so we can help the process, but I don't know what that usually looks like. I'm feeling like that's gonna be Marine. Yeah, yeah, I'm really glad that you brought that up, Perry, you know, perhaps, and I'll talk with other staff members about it, but you know, perhaps it's an email, a monthly email to me and then obviously they can call me whenever they want to and email me whenever they want to, but if there's milestones that they're reaching or you all would like to meet with them, we could have them occasionally come to a commission meeting, but if it's going smoothly and there's not a lot of info to be shared, they could just check in with me and then I could forward that information to you all and you can discuss it. That answers my question. You would be the contact person, okay. Yeah. Perfect. So via Marine or staff or staff. Yeah, I'll find that. Okay, thank you. Yeah, and so that's that in a nutshell. I think we covered everything. And yeah, I definitely want to loop back with our DEI office and certainly our finance department and then our procurement officer. I did speak to Simone. I can't think of her last name, but she's our procurement officer and she doesn't feel that this needs to go through an official RFP procurement process, but I want to loop back with her just one more time. And she's seen enough of these sort of call for proposals that I want to talk to her and other staff about language, about like monthly check-ins and just all the sorts of things that I've highlighted. And then I'll certainly loop back with the town manager's office. Dara, did you have something to say? I've been having my head up for quite a while. Sorry, it's best to just like pipe up. That's okay, this is all been informative and great. So I have one question and it's about, if the $10,000 goes to the artist at the end of the project, that's a question. Yeah, so I have- Okay, so wait, let me finish. So when it says that it can be used for materials for the project and cost of development of making the project and they don't have money yet, where does that money come from? Yeah, so that's a conversation with the finance department. And I've been told that I think they're gonna have to provide invoices to the town and then upon the invoice that they can be paid. I wish that wasn't the case. I wish that we could give some or all of the money up front, but I'm sorry. I'm not suggesting that, but I feel like you've been very wonderfully detailed in all of the stuff you've gone over with us tonight. That wasn't covered in terms that there was a thing scratched out, I can't see your whole document. So it's hard for me to talk about it. Oh, sure. Really well, but there's some points. Yeah, which is like 50% and it's scratched out. I did scratch it out because that was when I had hoped that there could be some flexibility of payment. So I'm not sure what you're saying because if you said it would have to be at the end and then you said invoice and invoices can be sent in the middle. Sure. So I'm not quite sure what we're saying here. If you're saying they have to pony up the materials and they only get paid when they submit. That's one thing, which I understand. And if it's they get progress payments, that's another far more complicated thing, which I also understand. So what are we talking about? Well, that's what I think needs to be clarified. Yeah, yeah. And I'm very happy to double check with our finance department. If they buy materials along the way, can they submit the invoice immediately and get paid? That would be great. So I can certainly ask our finance department. Good, thank you. I'm going to clarify that in this call to artists. But, you know, having spent a lot of time working for banks, it is great, it provided that they use it for the purposes for what they receive it and then they finished the project and submit it. But when you start making payments in the middle, you know, without getting the deliverables yet, then you're going to run the risk of having paid for materials and not getting a deliverable ever. Because it didn't happen for some reason, you know, it wasn't finished. So that's just a conceptual thing that needs to be thought about. Well, I mean, there are ways such as with construction projects, you have retainage. So you don't pay everything out until, you know, final completion. But I do think that it would be worth talking to the finance folks to see if there's, you know, opportunity for monthly submission of receipts and reimbursement. I'm not saying, I'm saying that it's more complicated needs to be thought about. No, no, no, I understand. But I think it's a good point that Dara makes. I mean, obviously that's a lot of money to put out from. That is. You know, I mean, a lot of times, you know, when you start making partial payments, you're doing it against payment bonds and all that kind of stuff, which is ridiculous on this. You couldn't possibly do that. Oh, yeah. But, you know, there's right now in an artist artistic endeavor, you pay the money. And if you don't get the project back, it's just gone. You know, there's no, nothing you can repossess. There's no way you can mitigate it or anything. It's gone. Well, I feel really confident about this, this call for artists right now. Okay. So Maureen, will we? Done some good stuff here. I can't see everyone. So I apologize if I'm speaking. Yeah, I can't hear. Raise hand. I just said one last question. Will we see the final draft of this before it gets sent out or? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, well, if I could, I don't know, when is your next meeting? We haven't decided yet. That's our next thing we're gonna decide. I would say, you know, I'm happy to meet again or email you a draft copy, you know, ideally. That would be great if you could email one to us all, like when you get it. So if you could tell us when you're gonna do it, I would like to have it for a week. Oh, sure. Okay. Do you guys wanna decide right now when our next meeting is gonna be? I'm kind of eyeing the 12th, December 12th at six. I wanna know when we're gonna get the proposal first because like I said, I wanna be able to read and think about it. So when we... Well, that would give her like something to shoot for as far as getting it to us by the fifth, right? Would you be able to do that, Maureen? Sure. Yeah. I'm wondering, yeah, so you would say that the call to artist wouldn't be made available to the public until at least, you know, December 13th? Yeah. Correct. Sure. Okay, so what we're saying, I'm gonna put this in the minutes. So we will get the completed final version of the call for art on the 5th. On the 5th, December 5th. Mm-hmm. And that will give us a week to sit with it. Let me just... Actually, I didn't check my availability. Hold on one second, about the 12th. The 12th is... Yeah, I can do that. Okay. I'm not available on the 12th. Uh-oh, all right. And you're a key player. We want you on this. Is there another time that works better for you? I'm away. So I'm gonna be away from the second, or the third to the 12th. I fly home on the 12th, but I'm not back by six. I'm flying home from California. How about the 13th? I have something at six that night. I could try to change it, or that I could do the 14th, but we're starting to get later and later. Yeah. Yeah. Do you wanna try and change that thing on the 13th? Okay. How wiggly is that? Does the 13th work for everyone else? No, it's for me. It works for me. Okay. That works for me. Somehow there's two Dara's on my field of view now. I know we're gonna be meeting one more time before this final draft is being done, because we haven't even talked about a theme, or if you want a theme, there's still some things we need to talk about. So are we gonna meet one more time to discuss that before we ask Maureen to put out a final draft? He's gonna need as much part, a lot of time herself. It was, I believe we decided to leave the theme up to the artist. Did we? Did we all vote on that and decide that? I wasn't sure if we had actually all decided that. That was something that was an option. We said we're either gonna leave it a more general theme, but have something in place that maybe says something about what we're looking for, but in a very general sense, but not just wide open. We didn't decide it. Unless everybody wanted a wide open thing. We didn't really get to decide which what we're doing there for a theme. So do we have any ideas about a way we can put out a general theme so that it's easier with a select committee to actually hone in? Does that make sense? So if we're looking for something that is gonna be somewhat celebrating the diversity in our town, I think that we should put out a theme that was a very general theme that says something about that. Maureen, can you share your screen again? That very top of that it discusses, the top of that document, I believe, discusses this. While the Public Art Commission has written this open call to artists with the intentional omission of a specific theme, we recognize the value and opportunity that this open call for artists presents to acknowledge and honor the complex and integrated histories of Kendrick Park or Sweetser Park in a meaningful way for all residents and visitors. We also recognize the value and potential of public art to serve as a platform for community engagement and education. And we welcome and encourage a broad, diverse range of content in the incoming proposals and applications. If you wanna do that, no thing. Well, what does everybody think about that? I feel that it leaves it into the hands of the artist Right. Which is in August when there was that meeting that was the final decision that was made at that meeting. But I realize those people aren't here now. So what do we get if we, there's a clear advantage if we don't provide a theme. What is the advantage of providing a theme that would offset it? Well, the way this is written, first of all, it says kind of the most important thing is the history of the park. And that's great. But I also think the history of the people is more important than the history of the park, just me. I just think we should maybe say something about who we are as Amherst and how does that, what does that look like? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I know. I get what you're saying. I think including some kind of language like that would be on point. If a person on our diversity committee read that we are prioritizing in the first sentence, that we are really committed to the history of the park, I think there's gonna be people saying, well, okay, that's great, but we should also talk about the people who were maybe who were relocated, who lived in the park and whose houses were taken and they relocated so that we can have a park. Maybe we should focus on the people, especially in that first couple of sentences that should be primary. If we say that we are doing something that is celebrating the diversity of our town. If we do that, I hear what you're saying. If we do that, I think it's gonna reduce the proposals because that's pretty specific. That's the history of the people who are in the park and that means an artist's gotta go research that. Go ahead. I'm not sure, maybe I'm misinterpreting what Terry said. I don't think it's the history of the people in the park. I think it's the history of the people in the town which I would agree with. We would want the public art to celebrate the, I'd say it's a complex and integrated history of the people in Amherst, not specifically the park. Yeah, it's still a little tweaking of the language there, maybe Robert. And it's not so specific that the way that it's talking about it, that like that is an absolute theme. It just has to be respectful of that. Essentially like be respectful of the people. I don't understand what that means. How about? I think right now Maureen is changing it around a little bit and I think she's doing a good job. How about presents to acknowledge and honor the complex and integrated histories of the people of Amherst? Integrated a good word. Yeah, I just, I wanted just to remind everyone of the mission and core of this commission is to foster greater community awareness of the interaction with the public art and through public art, promote cultural diversity and improve quality of life for Amherst residents. Actually, it is residents, it's not citizens. Oh, okay, thank you. Because you don't have to be a citizen to even serve on a commission. Anyone can serve. I mean, could you, I am hearing, you wanna talk about honoring the people of Amherst? Could it be something that comes from this statement? I think we can workshop and tweak the language and it will be fine. Yeah, I don't need to stop us here. All right. I think if you could include cultural diversity up above that would be good because I think you shared with us a very specific request from, what was it, the diversity? Yeah, and so to repeat, where is that email? My only suggestion would be to have a theme that celebrates the BIPOC for other marginalized communities. So the open call of artists presents to acknowledge in honor, cultural, it could just say, we recognize, it could say something that, the theme is to help promote cultural diversity of our, we could word Smith this. Yeah, we can word Smith that. Okay, and let me just type in. Yeah, cause we might get proposals from culturally diverse people that are in their essence very abstract and aren't like explicitly celebrating anything that anyone could tell, but just the fact that we're giving space to marginalized people to create and not pigeonholing them into creating something that looks like what our committee is gonna think that it should look like. Am I saying this in a way that's making any sense? That's what kind of was on there. I mean, that's a question related to that. In terms of the criteria, the selection committee will be creating the evaluation criteria, is that correct? Yeah, yeah. Yes. It's seven thirty. Okay, yeah, we're running really long on this. Sorry, that's my computer. And since, so I definitely would like to get to work on this, the project theme part with the DEI office to see how we could fine tune it. And I'm just kind of going through, I've taken notes we should up on the top somewhere on the first page, at least it should. So I mentioned up to $10,000, so that's very evident. And I'll insert a photo and a site plan and those sorts of additions. And I need to insert another photo for Sweets of Park. And then talk to our finance department about getting into the nitty gritty of what needs to be submitted. They should submit like a line item budget. Talking about, talking to our DPW about in town manager's office about how long should the artist be responsible for maintaining that art piece and be responsible for it. And then talking to DPW about, you know, the notion of concrete pad, how much cost can they install and pay for it? Or does it actually need to be part of this, the $10,000? And then I think that's fine, just adding members of the public. And then working with our again, the EI office about the wording about promoting this call for, you know, diverse selection, diverse groups to apply. And then the W-8 discuss it with our finance people and then the invoice process. And then just like fine tuning the deadlines. So it seems like other than the theme, it seems that a lot of the things that need to be updated is gonna be based on input from staff. So I was wondering, you know, would the commission be comfortable sort of giving a preliminary approval tonight and maybe fine tuning the theme with, I'm just thinking about the limited time we have. And, you know, if I were to talk to our DEI office about fine tuning the project theme, you know, could I email you the whole draft, but specifically about the project theme and then you can individually email me, you know, a yes, no. And so we could get this out, you know, sort of, you know, the first week of December at the latest, just so it doesn't, I'm a little worried that the longer, you know, if we post this on the 13th, it probably wouldn't be the 13th. There's probably no way that I could, you know, turn this around the next day and then the next week is a holiday. So I'm just a little worried about the timing of this and it not getting lost in holiday emails and vacations. I mean, it sounded like you said we were gonna vote on it by mail, which I'm a little worried about the open meeting law on that one. I hate to say, because it sounds so practical and I'd like to do it and see how you do that. With this particular project, like would that fall under open meeting law being that it's not something, I don't know. I work, so I work closely with the zoning board of appeals and other boards. And we do allow, you know, all the other staff members allow emails to go out to board members. And as long as you respond back separately and not copy other members, that's perfectly fine, that communication that's not violating the open meeting law. And so, you know, tonight, if I don't know if you'd be willing to sort of vote on, this has a general document and then just sort of fleshing out this specific paragraph. And it seems like the other items of this draft proposal are sort of administrative that, you know, should be worked out with finance and other staff members. I think I'd be comfortable with that. I'm not, because I haven't got a copy of it. Sorry, you're voting on something I haven't got a copy of, but I could abstain. The rest of you feel good. Yeah, I feel that we've got a good document here and that we should try and get it going, get the ball rolling on this as efficiently as possible. So I vote that we do with the further approval of the lead-in paragraph. Okay, so that's two people voted yes. Are we going to do a formal vote or? Well, I'm sorry, we're voting on a draft that's not... Yeah, we're voting on whether we want her to start running with this draft and go like to the finance people and go to the... Does that require a vote in this case? The DIE. Hopefully not. Why don't we just... I guess I'm just wondering, I've never voted on a draft before. I would vote on a finalized version, but it seems like a work in progress. I'm not quite sure why the vote is necessary. I think we're just, she's asking permission if she can continue to work for this and move the ball forward. And then we won't miss our deadlines. Why don't we just do nothing and let her do that? Right, I guess I agree with Jim. I'm not sure why. I mean, because all of the work has already been done to get this far and we didn't vote on that. So I guess I'm just wondering why the vote's needed now. I have a question. Would if Marine goes ahead and takes this, revises it, sends it to each one of us individually and we reply that it's good to go back to her, is that in essence a vote of yes, when we reply? What I understood, I thought maybe I misunderstood. You can vote on it if you just vote yes or no, but if you start, well, geez, I don't know. I'm gonna take her word for that one, but you can't discuss it. Because the problem is that a discussion is like a discussion from one person to me and then I discuss it with this person, you know. That's what she said. We can't discuss it. So I think what we're proposing and to agree upon as a group, whether it's through a vote or not, is that when we take this document, she'll revise it. She will send it to each of us. We will each reply with a yes or a no, which is a vote in favor of it or against. It would change if we have any changes. I don't know. I mean, that... Well, Maureen has said that that's something we can do. Yeah, I heard her, but I know a lot about the open meeting law and I have never researched this. Yeah, I was just, my thought was, you know, a lot of the items that we've talked about are sort of administrative changes and are not substantial and are sort of better served to talk to a particular staff person, like in finance or... They're creating a vote outside of the public. The public cannot see how you voted. That's the problem. Yeah, so what I'm asking is your approval of this as a general call to artists, you know, and that you allow staff to provide those sort of de minimis changes regarding, you know, procurement and finance and... There's still a vote. Yeah, so yeah, so, and I'm asking you to do that here tonight in this meeting and then allowing you to have me work with our DEI office to narrow down the project theme. But if you would refer to... And the only reason why I'm asking this is just the essence of time. I don't want to do this call to artists days before a particular holiday and then have people say, I didn't see it because I was on vacation, but perhaps we'll just get that anyways. So if you would like to, you know, hold off voting on this until your next meeting scheduled on December 13th, that's fine too. Could we change that next meeting and move it? And would people be available instead on Thursday, December 1st, which would give you enough time to get it where you needed to get it marine? We would get it if you're available on December 1st. We meet on December 1st. We vote on a completed document. When would we get said completed document in our hot little hands? Let me look at my calendar. We could have a one item agenda, so it wouldn't be so long. Yeah, so today is... Not free on December 1st. So when do we get it? Well, if you were to meet on, today is the 14th, Thanksgiving's the 24th. I probably could get something, you know, right before Thanksgiving, maybe by the 23rd. So you can get it to us by the 23rd? Yeah, I think so. That's fine. Thank you, Marlene. That's really nice. All right, the December 1st at six is still a good time for everybody. Works for me. Yep, works for me. Okay, so I'm going to put the minute, so we will get a completed call to art on the 23rd, right? Thank you, Lori, for your suggestion. That's right. And then we skip then the meeting on the 13th, or are we also... I'm trying to make sure I got it right. We're getting... Let's skip it on the 13th then. Let's just do the first. Okay, unless we have to. And I guess like leave it open just in case. Wait, no, but you're moving something around for that. Yeah, just keep your thing on the 13th. Don't change the thing on the 13th, after all. Okay, so we'll meet on the 1st. If we have to meet on the 13th or sometime later, we'll figure it out. Yeah. But hopefully we won't, because Marlene wants this to go out the week of the 5th. Right, yeah. I feel like we're practically ready right now. It is just a lot of plug-in stuff that I'm confident Marlene can do. Can I please confirm that in the minutes, am I putting down that the committee will receive a completed call for our November 30th? Am I right? Yeah. Thank you. November 30th? Yep, and then we're gonna meet on the 1st. Of December. Okay. Good thing. Sorry, I'm sorry, what's on November 30th? That's when we get the document. Oh, I thought we were getting it more than one day before the meeting. We are, that's seven days before. No, I thought you said November 23rd. Oh, no, right, 23rd. I see I knew I was wrong. Oh, okay. 23rd, thanks. I scratched out 23rd when he said 30th because I thought it was changed when I was writing a note. I knew I was doing something wrong. I couldn't figure out what it was. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you, Marlene. Yeah, thank you. This has been really, I've really enjoyed working with you all. And so, yeah, I will make those changes and talk to whoever I need to talk to and then make those changes and then email them to you as soon as I can and certainly by the 23rd. So, awesome. All right. Have a nice evening. Thanks so much. Thank you, Maureen. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. So just for the minutes, December 1st is the meeting and we're not doing the 13th. Correct, that is correct. Okay. All right. Okay. And okay, we are so over time right now. I think all other issues and does anyone else have an issue, a burning issue that they really wanna go over right now? I suggest that we table our things till our other stuff till the next time. Okay. So I move that we table our issues till next time and adjourn. Second. All right. All in favor, yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Thank you all. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, everyone. Nice to see everyone. Have a good night. Have a good night. Good night. Bye. Bye.