 that we are you know passing out to you today. We moved from health to entrepreneurship still on entrepreneurship in this last conversation and today we want to continue with the conversation that we started yesterday. Yesterday we were talking about financial literacy and debt management but now we want to bring it to the business people to entrepreneurs so we're talking about capital and debt management and for that we have been joined by the CEO of Nai Panoi Limited. She is called Karambu Aso who will be taking us through her journey. It matters this topic. Karambu Sana Karambu. Thank you Steph. Thank you so much. Glad to have you with us. I'm also happy to be here very honored. Thank you. Amazing. Tell us a little bit about your business so that people understand what you do. Okay so Nai Panoi Limited as she has mentioned is a meat distribution and supply business so basically what we do is we bring meats to your doorstep. Okay. Yes. All right interesting. So now tell you you said that you started last year in January and your then is quite interesting. Yeah. You went into debt. Yes. And you a little bit mismanaged it and then you got back from it. Yes. And you even managed to open another branch. Yes. So tell us a little bit about that. Tell us take us through that journey. Okay. So Steph we I we started the business as you said in January of last year and we started with one butchery shop and that is located in Kitangela and then we immediately realized that there is a need to do deliveries because people like getting things at their doorstep. Yeah. And so if I can go now into the story of debt and how that came about just to give you a bit of background. I was coming from the corporate world. I was in the banking sector for about eight and a half years. Yeah. So here I am. We are we are in my husband and I decided let's go into business. So I'm the one to I decide to take one for the team. And so we start the business and to be honest I did not I was not the kind of person who was business minded. You know those people who have side hustles or you know one day you're going to know none of that was eventually your plan completely. Yes. So even moving from corporate to like for me my vision was rise in the corporate you know become the CEO in the corporate. What were you doing in the corporate world. I was in branch operations. Yeah. So I came into the bank as a teller. I left as the branch head. So you moved from that to something. No business. Totally didn't. Yes. No prior knowledge of business. So that really affected a lot of the decision making. And so we find that you know because by the time a business is beginning to bear fruit you you you'll have moments where you have to keep on injecting capital injecting capital until the business is standing on its own. But I didn't know this. Like in my mind this business is supposed to set off and everything is supposed to start working profits very fast. So by the end of the month I would find that it's month and we've not made enough. We need to pay rent. We need to pay our workers. We need to restock. So what would happen is I would not disclose this to my husband because we went in together and I'd try to find ways. Now still in the spirit of mis-independence I'm used to making things run. I'm used to having money in my wallet. So I started getting taking this mobile loans. Taking this mobile loans. So the problem with the mobile loans is that they are very expensive and you have to pay within a very short period of time. So if I can work with figures let's say if I take let's say 3,000 shillings you know it's a random figure. And by the end of maybe six, seven days I have to pay back let's say 7,000 shillings. My business has not made that K4K that will enable me to pay. So the next thing I would do is I would take from the next one to pay. So it's like taking from Peter to pay Johnny and then now you have to pay. So that is how we ended up in a very big cycle of debt and that's how I discovered that there are very many mobile applications in this country. And so by the time my husband was knowing we had accumulated debt to a debt of about 200 and something thousand which really was really bad. Which was bad for business. And then another thing that contributed to us going into that it's because I was not very good with managing the funds. As I said I was coming from a place where I was used to having my own money. So here I am this business is now my only source of income. That time I was a girl for the sherehe. Now I'm born again I love Jesus and I used to go and use that money the business money in you know having fun enjoying life and the whatnot. That's the other thing you need to separate your monies have a separate till a separate account for business money. So that was really really really quite what pushed us into it. So at the end of it my husband had to come in and we had to pay from you know he's he's employed. So we had to pay the debt from his from his salary. So that's how you recovered from from debt. Yes that's how we recovered. So what would you tell someone who has accumulated a business pastor and a who's accumulated loans how do they go about it? Are there other options you know in trying to pay off loans in the best way possible to salvage the business? Wow I honestly I think in situations like that because now for us we were blessed to have some salary that is going to to take us out of it and there is hope I'm sure there is a way that you can find maybe somebody because as I said the problem was that the expense the expensive nature of the loans I was taking is what was making them very expensive. So maybe for someone who is in a similar situation that maybe you don't have someone to take you out a partner who has a stable income to take you out of it you can find maybe someone else who will not necessarily take you into a place of harassment someone who can probably journey with you so that you only you're only accountable to that one person so you can pay off using that and then now try and you know slowly pay them back yes pay them back okay and for you as you've said at least your partner is at work is working so that sort of cushioned the situation why would you say it's important as we were talking before we came on camera to get into business when you're still in employment yeah yes so it's actually a conversation I've really had with my husband a lot of times and I I keep thinking if I was if I had started business when I was in at work I would have done so much because I was working and I'll give you my my example I was working I had a lot of access easy access to facilities to credit but I'd get the loans and buy household stuff and buy speakers and buy woofers TVs like if I knew and and that's advice I would give anyone right now especially if you're a single person you don't have much responsibility before the children come in before any other big responsibility comes in you have a playing ground to to to use your money to explore see identify see where is it that I can I can put this money and see what it brings back it's really it's I wish somebody told me I wish somebody told me I would have done much more okay yes because that sort of cushions you even when yes business goes bad you still have employment still yes somewhere you can depend on for your salary yes yes okay and once you you decide maybe to venture out of employment then you'll have been established you've had enough years of of making the mistakes of learning over and learning and then now your business has you know gained ground yeah okay wonderful and what is the place of okay for a person going into business having importance of having a saver mindset instead of a spender mindset because you said you were spending and you were going to party with it your money from the business yes so how is it how important is it yes to have a saver mindset and save in your business it's definitely crucial because if you're starting a business then the end goal of most entrepreneurs as I would think is to grow right and this you wouldn't grow by just spending if I could take it back to the example I gave of how I took loans to to buy it for consumption right so if money is coming in you're making profits you want to see you want to check where else can I put in this money you want to put money aside and and and just figure out what is the next thing I can do because that is what growth is about you know so make money for more money make money for more money make money for more money amazing and as you've put it you were initially you're getting loans to buy stuff so would you say that we have bad debts and good debts yes definitely a bad debt is a debt you take for consumption a good debt is a debt you take for the sake of investment and for the sake of multiplication and bringing forth more okay so in business it's all right to take debt as long as you have a plan is it's also good to have a plan in how you you're going to pay it off at the end of the day so that you're not left stranded when it gets to a certain point yes as we have seen it is very important yes to have a strategy you can't you can't just take it because it's available man you you can't and those guys will embarrass you because I remember they sent out a mass text to my contact and like the message was you are attached to a serious default by the name of because I think many people are really harassed by the learning mobile learning platforms yes for sure you you don't want to to just take money because it's available just avoid avoid and even for the sake of self-discipline and self-control which are very necessary when you're handling your business money you want to see that if I take this three thousand Bob and I'm paying back this seven thousand Bob is there a way that I know for a fact that I'm going to to pay back this money yeah and it's it's you'd rather not take that than take a bad debt that you will be able to to pay back sorry all right yes what about working with your husband how has it been you know yeah imagine this is someone you're used to so how how is he your boss because I know he's the chairman and then you were the CEO tell us something about that yes so Steph the journey has been very interesting coming from reporting in you know corporate to to people you don't know to now reporting to your husband yeah you know it's a guy you're sharing the bed with so there's a lot of room for contempt and lack of seriousness which is something I've had to really because through our communication and through our discussions with each other I've had to understand that for real legit you're actually reporting to this person the person who is investing in this business so you need to have that mindset of I have to deal professionally right so a very recent example is when I was really because of I was doing a lot of things at the beginning of the year I sort of got behind on doing our books for the business and my husband kept on like your ways where the reports you know and I'd be like I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it babe I'm trying to up for your baby I'm trying to settle down and settle in then I realized I you know as a as a steward of what God has given you in this place where we're still a growing company how am I dealing with this place that I am in and you know the Bible tells us not to despise the humble beginnings and to do everything as unto God and not unto man so this place that I am right now how am I dealing because when God grows us because that is exactly what he's doing I need to have been able I need to have set the foundations right so that when we are a bigger company there's that accountability so that takes me to the point of accountability so recently I had to what my husband was asking for the reports I had to go away we I had not mentioned we have another branch in Nanuki so I had a little place that I have where I was staying I was staying there when I go to check on the business so I went I was like please excuse me I need seven days so I left for seven days left the children and went to do the books because I have a chairman to report to wow so understanding that and learning that it's been a journey but I love it because at the end of the day it it it it bears fruit okay so it needs you to really take in seriousness in it put in the work and the seriousness it deserves for sure okay for sure for sure yes and that's working out well for you it is okay because I believe that when you get into a business with a partner especially when it's your husband it you become you know relaxed and everything yes and even when you get in business with friends sometimes the familiarity spoiled yes things yes a little bit so okay um before we came on board you're also telling me about being a CEO being led by god in business how is it wow so I I said I couldn't talk about business without mentioning without talking about god because after as I said when we started the business in January I was still in the world I was still the babe for the sherehe that's last year January last year January then come May so now when I'm exactly a year old in salvation wow and I'm able to I've been journaling I'm able to see the difference between January to May 2022 and then May to May 2023 and uh some of the things we've been seeing are um god just helping us in the practicality of things of operating the business um I I really because I was I was doing a lot of things for the business um I was the the the the the social media person and the one um doing handling the customers and the one doing the deliveries most of the time and the one and the HR and the one dealing with the employees so I really needed god to to help me out and one of the ways I wanted him to help me was on the socials because in this age we are living in you really want to to take advantage of social media you want to do your marketing on social media and I I really was praying about it and what god did was when we joined our church he I started serving in church and before I started serving I I was debating on whether to join the worship team because I sing or to join the creatives ministry which is now which deals with branding marketing social media and I prayed about it and I remember god giving me a confirmation to join our social is going to join the worship team but he said join the creatives department and it is in this serving that I have learned how to do posters for my business videos better better because I was doing it but I didn't know this I didn't have the skill set so by interacting with people on on the team who are really good who are really professional I've learned and for me that's really divine you know that's a divine connection um another thing is god getting me to understand that I need to learn how to build rapport with um like my suppliers because in that moment for that debt management phase I was also having I was in debt to our suppliers and I remember one particular supplier who I just we had a rapport and I I I really prayed and I was like god I need you to help us deal even as we try to get out we were owing him around 56 000 kenya shillings so we sat down and I told him listen and I really I feel like I came with an authority and a confidence that could only have been from god and I told him listen imagine you're just going to hold my hand you're going to walk through this journey with me like your sister until my business begins to thrive like yours remember this is a person you owe money yes you owe money and stuff I can tell you today there's a way to speak to people and they hear the voice of god wow there's a way to and there's a way that god causes men to honor you yeah to speak directly to the heart yes and he sat me down and we had a conversation and he told me how he does his business so at the end of that conversation I was no longer going to be his customer because he showed me how he does the business to make costs cheaper so I was going to start getting my supplies elsewhere so you can imagine that yeah and he allowed it and that is how we were able to now start doing that and then pay him back you know at the end of about two to three months we were able to pay him back divine connectivity another person was our chicken supplier who when we started off the business I used to have to purchase my chickens from like supermarkets and then now I sell to my clients which was not very cost effective for us yeah so because of rapport and because of favor for sure one of the people who was working in that supermarket left and he was able to connect me to their supplier so now I get it you know direct yeah so that's what yes that's really what networking is about yeah and um just having god guide us speak to us leaders tell us this is the next place like now we know where our next branch will be and what it will be just by way of being spending time in prayer and and with god I couldn't do business without god wow yes amazing yeah what would you say I wouldn't ask to finish this conversation yeah without you sharing some insights that you'd want a small someone who's just starting business yeah to to learn about to pick from all the lessons that yeah you've taken yeah yeah okay um so first and foremost for sure um rely on god he is really really the one and only person who person who will who he literally changes the trajectory of our lives and he's reliable in every aspect of your business every aspect of it whether it's finances whether it's gaining skill set whether it's gaining connectivity like my whole story tells it understand the understand trying to work with people who are in the in the business with you I think I did that after instead of doing it before do your research if you're trying to get into a certain area find people who you can talk to people who can guide you people who can walk with you people who can tell you don't do this do this um be accountable yeah maybe you're doing business alone but find a way to to be accountable if it's maybe something like not even mixing your money have a separate account for each that's a form of accountability if you're doing it alone if you're doing it with a partner make sure there are systems in the bank we used to call it maker checker you you're making and then the other person is checking and it's not one person making and checking because so that we don't have issues of integrity and we also have issues so that we are also addressing accountability and good reporting um what else what else bookkeeping what else bookkeeping yes do your books um i'm i'm in a space where i'm learning how to one of the other things that god has taught me is to wake up early in the morning so that i'm able to cover uh the things that i need to do and one of those things is bookkeeping because the volatility of of the industry i'm working with it's very detailed so when i'm when i'm putting things into the system it's one by one so if i miss a day i start accumulating i start accumulating yeah so be diligent be consistent do your books every single day if you can okay yes amazing are there particular skills needed for an entrepreneur um yes for sure um we have other than the soft skills you know being able to handle clients because your customers are what are going to make your business run if you if you don't know how to deal with clients if you don't know how to deal with uh uh feedback and complaints if you don't have compensation systems and structures in place where a customer has been grieved um you you wouldn't know how to your business wouldn't really run effectively um the the the the other skills um social media learn how to use the socials um bookkeeping know how to how to balance your books how you're reconciling have systems where if you have employees on the ground you're able to even if you're not there you're able to monitor what is happening and then so that we don't have uh gaps and loopholes okay amazing thank you very much Haramu for coming on board and sharing with us with Jenny and amazing insights we definitely wish you the best thank you so much all right what can people find you on your social media this is your camera okay so on the socials we are um Naipa Noi cuts we are Naipa Noi cuckoo house we are on instagram we're on tiktok we are on twitter we're on facebook we're not just on youtube you shouldn't be yes so that's us on the socials okay thank you very much thank you all right so we close the show at that we've been talking about capital and debt management joined by Karamu