 Felly, rydw i'n gweithio i'r cyfnodd. Rydw i'n gweithio i'r cyfnodd. Felly, rydw i'n gweithio i'r cyfnodd. Rydw i'n gweithio i'r cyfnodd. Rydw i'n gweithio i'r cyfnodd. Rydw i'r cyfnodd, rydw i'r cyfnodd, i gydag ymgyrchau o'r meddwl ar y Gwyl Cymru y 1954. Yr ystafell yng nghylch ar gyfer cyfnodd. Mae'n defnyddio ar y Gwyl Cymru. Dych chi'n ochr fawr a'i fod yn ymgyrchu'r ysgriffaith. Mae'n schynllw, mae'r olw yn hyffrwynt ychydig, nhw'n ei adïdol, ydych chi'n bobl. Felly mae'n pleif bryd i gael y cyfnodd, mae'n ardu i gyfleu cyffomau, a'r cyfnodd, yn curthu i gyllid. Rydw i'n hemau o'ch gwaith. Felly, rydw i wedyn ymwysig ym Pyda yng nghymhysig yn unrhygon Yng nghymhysig, yn y Maili 2100, ar bobl website yma, ar gyfer y ddweud hynny roedden nhw'n cael eu defnyddio'r mhau ar gyfer y penderfyniadau o'r fathodol, a yw'r grwp yw'r gweld gwahanol a'r iawn rhai. Mae'r frefwyr a'r byff esgol yw'r hyn, mae'r gwahanol efo'r ddydd ymweld yn ynndigol. Mae'r pryn am gwybod pobl ni'n ffordd beth yw'r cyffeniad o'r rheinydd a'r llun o'r fitneboli gyndafolol o'r cefnodol. Felly mae'n ddif wedi gweld yn ymddi am gweithio'r busnes yn ei gweithio'r busnes. Mae'r grifffau myllaf yn ymddylch, gyda'r ddweud, ynghylch, lwyddoedd, achos yng nghylchol, i'r ddweud o gweithio ynghylchol ac mae'n cael ei gweithio'r busnes. Mae'n sicrhau bod eich un SES yn ei ddweud a'r ddweud i gael eu ddweud, ond ar y dyfodol yng nghylchol a'r crinol chi'n sefydlu. Gildw Tertr, y prosesiwyr ymlaen, felly rydyn ni'n gweithio i arferwag fawr arwain a'i'r Llyfrgell i amdano i'r Llyfrgell i'r Llyfrgell, ond y cyfrifiadau o'r siwrnau a llyfrgell. Felly mae'n gael arno eich ffnwys, mae'n gweithio i'n amddannu'n gweithio i'r ffnwys i'r ffnwys. I'm Ahmed Al-Fuky Al-Mani, I'm just about to destroy the shrine. Here's my digger, we're going to do this now. Well, talk about bang to rights after the fact. That's been really helpful. And of course a lot of that happened during Syria and Iraq. You probably remember pictures from the Mosul Museum of People Pushing Things Over. Well, facial recognition technology. Let's try and find some of these people on an international basis working through Interpol and relevant agencies to do that. But the international criminal court now taking a more prominent role in this area. I mean, in some ways, that have been in the news recently that defence could be up in front of the international criminal court for other reasons. Here we are trying to get people in front of the international criminal court who may be responsible for cultural property war crimes. And indeed we're looking at them with international criminal court on speedy indictments where we come across evidence that we can get to the ICC, vacant issue indictment, we can arrest the offenders and get them to the hay. The guy on the right, Ag Mohammad, is currently going through the ICC. He's also up for cultural property war crimes, but he's also crimes against humanity and genocide, so he's a nasty piece of work. The international criminal court's view on this is that it's unacceptable for people now to become separated from their cultural patrimony, cultural castaways from their background. And that's a very powerful sentiment that I think certainly we would be supportive of. And what about the militaries? Well, some of these militaries have been involved in this game for a lot longer than we have. I mean, albeit we were going back to the Second World War with the Monument to Fine Arts and Archives sessions, but the moment the legislation came out, Austria, their top left, they have a unit of 28 reservists, primarily doing cultural property protection within the borders of Austria in terms of resilience and disaster relief. The Dutch have a unit of about seven going to 15, again, just looking within the borders of the Netherlands at the moment. And despite the fact that both those nations do a lot of UN work and external work, they haven't actually deployed cultural property protection officers without the borders of their country. Italy, probably the leader in this space, 300 plus military police officers, the caravanary play of both ways, very clever game, who are doing nothing but protecting the cultural patrimony of Italy with tanks and helicopters and submarines and all sorts of things like that. And those officers have spread across the length and breadth of Italy, living in the equivalent of great, one-listed buildings, so funded by their military defence and housed by the equivalent of DCMS and I guess the National Trust in the English Heritage. So I'm very much looking forward to taking over perhaps Kenwood houses, our headquarters in London, and then we'll think of somewhere else for somewhere else. The United States were heavily involved in that, but there are all sorts of logos underneath that for the Pentagon, for the Defence Intelligence Agency, the 10th Mountain Division in upstate New York with Dr Laurie Rush, and then coming down the Air Force cultural language, sorry, language centre, cultural language centre, and then the bottom US SOCOM Special Operations Command and USA Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command, Airborne, which is the founding unit of their cultural property protection unit that was recently announced in the New York Times. The French have, on the middle left, a legalistic approach to this. Their League adds right all the documentation for the implementation of the Hague Convention within the Army de Terre and across the French defence forces, but they sent two of their offices on our recent course and they're looking at establishing within their own, within the Army de Terre, a unit of cultural property protection unit. The Poles tell me that they are starting a centre of excellence for cultural property protection. The initiative has come from their cultural ministry, but they're reaching out to defence to try and establish this, and the Australians who also came on our course are very interested in this space as well, so maybe some action from there has been as well. Really, I was handed a loaded gun by Professor Peter Stone and I'm not quite sure whether I'm shooting myself in the foot or the bullet is neatly going towards the top or maybe it's a grenade he tasked with me without pulling out the pin and I pulled the pin, but he wrote this article when I was innocently sitting in Army headquarters and I was only reading, I have to sadly admit, this issue of the British Army Review, which ordinarily is a very good cure for insomnia. I was reading it because I'd written an ugly brilliant article all about green energy and how we should be doing more of it inside defence, and I thought I owed, I'm showing everybody on my desk, look at me, I'm brilliant, I'm in print, and I came across, but I thought I owed the magazine a duty to read the rest of it, and the rest is slightly history. Why did this make such a mark on me? I think probably because of my personal background, I've read every book about the monuments, fine arts and archives sections during the Second World War. I worked for 12 years in part with the Art Lost Register and I now work for our family business and work with our dealers across the road in some changes. So it was a bit of a coup de foud moment, excuse my French, a bit of a clap of thunder. I rang up the prof the moment I'd read the article and he apparently now tells the story how he almost fell off his chair that someone from the military was ringing up. But I was in so in the right place in Army headquarters to do something about this. The concepts branch looks 20 years forward at the future environment. What do we need to do to change the army of today to meet the challenges of that future environment? Well of course this is very current. So we wrote a paper on delivering a cultural property protection capability within the army and in that paper we posited a number of reasons why it was a good thing to do. Clearly top right, it's the law. So it's a non-discretionary application of the law to the armed forces, part of the law of armed conflict. We also believe we have a moral obligation to the communities amongst which we are conducting military operations during armed conflict and obligation and indeed across a whole spectrum of military operations. It's about influence, it's about reputation, it's about countering adversary propaganda, it's about our own force protection. If we go and park our tanks on someone's cultural property they're not going to feel very well disposed to us, we'll get bricked, we may get improvised explosive devices and so forth and you end up in that cycle of ongoing cycle of conflict which keeps us in a conflict zone for a lot longer and we anticipate it being there through our own fault. So that improved cultural understanding is clearly vital, understand what the cultural background of the people you're working around is all about. Preventing threat finance is we don't want looting to happen. Looting means that people are taking objects out of our area of responsibility and we are legally obliged to prevent, prohibit and stop damage destruction and looting for two cultural property within our area of operations. We don't want looted objects leaving our area of operations, going through cash converters and coming back as guns and ammo or cash to support the continuance of an adversary's operations against us. So there's a whole intelligence cycle there and that means reaching out to a whole panoply of policing and international law enforcement agencies who we're networking into. And the final one at the top is, as I understand academic studies, I've seen academic studies, and I look after someone's cultural patrimony during the conduct of military operations. It affords that community a faster and better chance of recovery, post that conflict or post that trauma. And that trauma could be a natural disaster as well. So those are the reasons that went in our paper. And as this paper took two years to whirl its way up to the top of army headquarters reaching there in the middle of 2015. With lots of people patting me on the head saying, complete idea, lovely, no resources may get lost. So what happened in 2015 as this article, this paper bumped into three-star level, which is a general level in army headquarters, the government then went and announced that they were going to put the bill before Parliament to ratify the hate convention and its two protocols. I mean this whole story is about stars aligning in the most unlikely way. And here was another one just lining up. There's an awful lot of law that already applies to us as service personnel with regard to the protection of cultural property during armed conflict. Clearly the hate convention is the overriding piece of legislation. And I think the UNESCO produced a really handy little booklet written in no small part by Professor Roger O'Keefe in the University of Wales. It is written by lawyers. So I had to go through it to be on the number 22 bus and work out what do they actually mean? What do we have to do as a result of the legislation at the UNESCO Handbook? And really the hate convention itself is the foundation document from which everything comes and really is the one that we have to get to know extremely well, which is why we're inviting an Austrian Brigadier over to United Kingdom next June to teach us about the hate convention specifically as a unit and we're extending the invitation to a single service, League Ads, the Military Police and 77 Gates Outreach Group. So when you're going through that document and don't try and read them all, but I've just picked out a few, so I've mentioned it before, military forces aren't prohibit, prevent and stop damage, destruction and leading to cultural property, including that by organised crime groups. Another page, another age things to do. Make sure there are mechanisms in place to ensure that if cultural property is recognised during an attack, the attack is stopped. Well, that's a pretty big ask, once you've got the tanks rolling to stop an attack. So how are we going to cope with something like that? And I'll come back to that point about there are lots of military issues here to crunch through here. And then a final one, consider the impact, and this is a targeting one, impact of incidental damage caused by bombing a bombardment of a military target close to cultural property. What is close to me in the proximity of? And does that mean that we can use a different kind of weapon system to attack the target we're after? Do we have a different approach angle, so the frag goes a different way? Or do we do something different, like we do a cyber attack on that objective and not a kinetic attack? All sorts of different things that we can look at in terms of targeting. The Hague Convention, Peter mentioned Article 7 is one of the bits of the legislation applies to us and the two points, two sections there, one is relating to regulations. We've got cultural property protection in our legislation. It is in the manual of military law. It is in our military annual training test. But I have shown the blue shield to two very senior officers in the armed forces. Tim, what's the kind of blue shield thing? I'll talk about that in general. You will remember from your military annual training test the law of armed conflict section, very important you do every year, and the thing is that the way we lay it out is we have four, it's a kind of guest question, we have four different symbols laid out and which of these four is the one for the protection of cultural property? No, it's not. That points to a significant education piece and one of our roles and responsibilities within defence is to educate defence about the responsibilities under the Hague Convention in conjunction with our legal advisers as well. Because it is a whole force responsibility. It's not our job to be the conscience of defence in this matter, but it is our job to remind defence from time to time that they have a conscience and that they have responsibilities here with this. Second one, establishing a cultural property protection unit, securing respect for it and cooperating with the civilian authorities responsible for safeguarding cultural property and the kind of imply task that underlies this is what is where. Because if we don't know what is where, how are we not going to park our tanks on it, drop a bomb on it, send a tomahawk missile at it. We've got to know the geospatial information intelligence which supports successful delivery of cultural property protection during the planning and execution of military operations. So even before the bill had gone into Parliament, the Secretary of State for Defence stood up and said that as part of the ramification process we would establish a military cultural property protection unit. Michael Fallon was a classicist from St Andrews and maybe that was part of it. It could also be related to the fact that before I had a call from the army secretary up there a bit of the army headquarters that looks at what our parliamentary relations and they caught me up as I was working in my office down the road here. So Tim, this army secretary up here, and I went, oh God, that's all this bad news. Secretary of State, and I thought this is getting really bad, has had an urgent question in Parliament about what we're doing in relation to protecting cultural property within defence. And I said, well, the honest answer is we're doing Jack Squad at the moment, because this was a few years ago. And I said, but we can't have the Secretary of State stand up in Parliament and say we're doing absolutely nothing in this area. So why doesn't he say this? And hello me. You have 24 hours later the Secretary of State wasn't up on his plans and saying pretty much that. But I mean, he was a man who believed in it anyway. So I think we were kind of pushing it out an open door. There was, as Peter Stone will tell you, there was support on both sides of both houses of Parliament for this bill. And it probably went through like Greece lightning quicker than any other bill. And just as well, it did go when it did go, because it had been caught up in the more recent events in Parliament, it may not have flown at all. So timing again. So what are we doing in defence? Well, it's not just about setting up a cultural property protection unit. It's about creating a structure. It's a whole force responsibility. It's everyone's responsibility within the armed forces to deliver cultural property protection. It's like first aid. We know how to shove a bandage on someone, but then we need a surgeon. So I'm trying to compare myself to a surgeon, but sometimes you need to call a friend, and maybe we're the friends who defence needs to call in times. But create a policy at defence level. And that's being done now. It's going to be wrapped into the next iteration of our human security job service publication, 1325, which is human security. We're creating doctrine at the single service level. The army have done it already. I guess they may be in the RF, may be looking at this as well. The doctrine note for cultural property protection will be published early next year. The cultural property geospatial information intelligence piece is a big one. It involves all those parties. A DGC is a defence geographic centre, UNESCO, NATO, and the US Defence Intelligence Agency, which probably sits on the largest dataset of cultural property. But I think we need to improve, if you like, the granularity, in other words, the richness of the data that's available for us, and in more detail, so that we can actually deliberate with education I've spoken of already. So one of our officers who's here today, Professor Adrian Argerflyt, I have tenant intelligence role at the Rosary Air Force, is currently looking at, with our learning development advisers in the armed forces, is creating the briefings that we need to deliver at unit level and for senior commanders in terms of informing the military. We can either go round to every unit to deliver that, or we can do it in conjunction with legal advisers and so forth. Training is about delivering cultural property protection on exercises and the work up to operations and then the unit itself, and we'll look at some of these in a bit more detail. So we've done a lot of liaison internally. If you're interested in the badge in the middle, working with Clive on this at the moment, the words respect and protect come from Eisenhower's directives in 1943 and 44. He used the word respect in 1943, and in fact he said protect and respect in his directive in 1944. Clive and I think respect and protect goes better. And what is the wind box in the middle all about? It's a badge of St Luke's, a patron saint of artists, and everything that we do is about protecting what an artist of some description has created. So we think that that is probably quite an appropriate badge to have. But anyway, looking around there, the huge smogers board of abbreviations for which I do apologise, I think the Russians know more about them than I do. But PJHQ, Cymru joined headquarters and they have a standing joint force headquarters as well, which does emergency operations, defence intelligence, financial intelligence and infrastructure, defence geographic centre, 4-2 engineer regiment of the army regiment, part of the joint forces intelligence group who deliver geospatial information intelligence to the army and defence. Standing joint command is looking at what happens within the United Kingdom itself, and so that could be a resilient operation, should we have a terrorist issue, or should we have a humanitarian disaster relief kind of thing when you bring up the army and can you provide a helicopter. Optag deliver training before going on missions, GCSU, defence cultural specialist unit, defence infrastructure organisation after the defence state. And then we've got a bit of policing and legal on the left there. DCDC is a defence concepts and doctrine centre, which does our policy and doctrine. And then the joint space, we've got the three single services and the top ministry defence. And then Clive mentioned the working group and he said it was small and it is elastic. It does vary as to who shows up. But we've had to develop relationships outside defence, which we hadn't had before in some very interesting and novel places. Top right, there's a whole big policing bit to this with relations with Interpol, Europol, National Crime Agency, the international customs organisation with the FBI art unit with Homeland Security International and their art investigators International Criminal Court. I mean it goes on and on with the Met Policing with the Met Art and Antiques Unit and the National Terrorist Financial Investigation Unit and War Crimes. War Crimes is another big piece that we've already slightly looked at, border force, then some of the NGOs here, the Blue Shield, the Red Cross and across the bottom are custodians of cultural heritage who have been very supportive in some of their membership organisations as well and the Smithsonian. And then bottom right we've got the militaries that we've been liaising with and then top right, we've got the other government departments reaching out to the organisation for security cooperation in Europe and the Commonwealth and UNESCO beyond them as well as Historic England. NATO is in this space as well. They've written a directive on cultural property protection which is sending them on the road to standardise agreement on cultural property protection. It's a project that they produce in the Cymru, that's a civil military centre of excellence in the Hague which has been done and we're cooperating on all those things with NATO's policy on the data and so forth. We established an illicit cultural property trafficking working group. Why is defence into this? Because one of the legal obligations on us is to prevent, prohibit and stop looting in our area of operation together people from across government and their agencies to look at what is the impact of looting and trafficking? Does it involve the UK and UK nationals? What intelligence can be generated? What intelligence can be generated into evidence in order to arrest and seize things? What advice can be given to ministers in terms of policies and then can we recover and repatriate? Now most of these are without the defence's gambit. Most of this is about international policing and law enforcement but we're going to be in the first mile as it were and so it's our responsibility to stop things happening in that first mile and to reach out to our partners across government and internationally to ensure that there is a cohesive and cooperative response to illicit cultural property trafficking where it involves the United Kingdom. Information, the sort of large elephant in the room, the most fundamental preconditions to protecting cultural property joint facilities are to identify what and where cultural property to be protected is and to communicate this information effectively to those engaged in the planning and execution of military operations in accordance with the UNESCO manual. So the war fighters on the right from targetiers in defence through permanent joint headquarters to RAF planes. One of the big advantages these days is that everything comes off a plane, everything comes off a ship, it's generally going, knows where it's going and in the Second World War of course you just opened the bomb doors and fingers crossed that it didn't hit the kind of thing because the monuments fine arts archive sections produced maps which then had sort of tip-exed out things don't hit this church and so you just fingers crossed as a bombing and went across that town that the bombs didn't go there but it was luck rather than judgment or technology. Now we've got a lot of technology that helps us on the battlefield we don't want to waste expensive ammunition we want to put it in the right place to achieve a military effect and so it's become more possible in more ways to deliver cultural property protection because of the technology it's a matter of amassing it in the right place to do that but we get our geospatial information intelligence from the people in the middle a joint forces intelligence group which includes the defence geographic centre 4-2 servo regimen and the UK hydrographic office and we're reaching out beyond over the left-hand side outside the wire as it were into academia and into the nations to deliver that cultural property geospatial information intelligence but it's think of it from a military operational security perspective we don't want to have to ring up somewhere that we're going to invade next Tuesday and say hi by the way it's Saturday we like all your cultural property information in our data set so we don't bomb it when we arrive on Tuesday what do you mean you're coming on Tuesday? these kind of things should be built now in times of relative peace when we're not all fighting each other in order that that data is freely available but it's very sensitive it might all be in Benideca's guide but if you put a list of cultural property together and put it into a military data system then one person's list of cultural property to protect could well be another party's list of cultural property to be taken out and we've seen that kind of eradication of cultural property in Syria and Iraq so it's sensible but it's sensitive and how do we deal with those issues so what we're looking at now is utilising the distinctive emblems of the blue shield and the hate convention on our mapping it's called symbology it's being run through our symbology committee now UNESCO say that's fine you're a party to the hate convention if you want to use that and if it becomes best practice amongst nations then so much better but they may or may not go for it with the symbologist but it would seem to make sense to me to use the distinctive emblems because that's what people might see when they're actually conducting military operations and if you, let's say this is a digital mapping layer as opposed to a physical one one should be able to click on that icon and go straight to what NATO have developed a 30 point schema 30 different data fields relating to that cultural property structure in terms of where it is what it is, what it's made of who's responsible for it, what's in it movable cultural property, will it and then we can make all the deductions as to whether we need to conduct some surveillance on it whether we need to guard it when we get there if it's full of important movable cultural property there's a chance it might be looted so we're working with NATO and internally on those the United Kingdom Historic England have brought together all the devolved governments to put together the United Kingdom CD-ROM of our cultural property that meets the standard that DCMS have set for that cultural property to be protected under the Haid Convention 1954 so when we've got that CD and in fact the data for England and Wales has already gone to defence but when we've built the whole data set then we can send it to NATO, we can send it to UNESCO and the irony about this piece of legislation is that there's no requirement for any nation to log any data with UNESCO, which one would have thought would be the sensible place for all this data to sit where what UNESCO have is the World Heritage Site and there are effectively buttons number of them around the world whereas in this country there are something like 15,000 I think in England alone items of cultural property or structures of cultural property that meet the standard of the criteria that DCMS have set so when we've built our data set then we can go to the rest of the world and say here's our data disk have you got yours and if you haven't got yours maybe there's a cultural diplomacy opportunity for DCMS and the historic Englands and the doors to go to those nations and say can we help you put the legislation in place to build a national data set and to ensure the protection of your own cultural property I don't know, not really a matter for me but I'm interested in the data that results from it because we need it The final aspect almost is the military cultural property protection year which was comes about as a result of the ratification by parliament of the Hague Convention in 2017 the unit was established in the back end of 2018 and we put it into 77th Brigade into the outreach group which is in all money and civil military affairs unit inside 77th Brigade so it's a defence capability it sits within the field army we look back at two anti-seedent units that existed in the Second World War the Monuments Finance and Archives sections both UK and US primarily there were 50 Brits serving during the fighting part of World War II who were listed in Lieutenant Colonel Sir London Woolies post-war report and incidentally that report and their standard operating procedures from the Second World War are as relevant to us today as they were when they were conducting operations in the Second World War because some things just don't change history tends to repeat itself why would they be any different? Of course their things have moved on like technology and so forth but how you deal with a problem is fundamentally the same as it was in 1945 although probably some Conservatives will shout me down and say that's absolutely things have moved on of course they have but the fundamentals are underlying Monuments Finance and Archives sections were responsible for the physical protection of it and as it became clear in the Second World War how much had been looted across them they became responsible for identifying the refugees and recovering the cultural property somebody once mentioned to me that 10 of you sat up in front of a room for academics and you mentioned that movie that Peter Stone mentioned but I have to say that movie has done a lot to raise the profile of what this unit did in the Second World War otherwise I'd be having a hard time explaining to you as it is I can walk in somewhere I can say you've seen the movie yes you've seen the movie I'm George Coon at least that's what my mirror tells me in the morning when I'm having a show my wife tells me different of course the unit on the right on the right hand side is the Art Loosing Investigation Unit and that was a unit of the Office of Strategic Services a four run into the Central Intelligence Agency their remit was to look at the groups, individuals and networks responsible for the looting with a view to both restitution and bringing the individuals responsible to account at Nuremberg where four were arranged for cultural property war crimes and one was executed, one executed himself and I'm not quite sure what happened to the other two both of these units had a very short life span and the OSS was wrapped up immediately after the end of combat operations and the if you like the war bit of wartime bit of the NFAA sold it on for a few years after but many of those who were involved during conflict themselves have gone back to their day job shortly thereafter but we look back at those two units again because many of their operations give us lessons and operating practices for today so when we look at the roles for the cultural property protection unit we look back at the Second World War we look at the legislation itself we look at the experience of our allies and we look at statements made by the Secretary of State for Defence and Parliament they all get wrapped into something called a concept of employment a conit long document telling the armed forces how this unit can deliver its capability they can get a con use and a con ops and all sorts of other things as well which I'm sure will come to write as well Secretary of State for Defence then stood up in Parliament a bit later on in 2016 and said the unit will provide advice training and support to operational planning processes and can investigate record and report cultural property issues from any area of operation so that's a quite broad and challenging remake what does that mean I mean rather glipped to just write down education we've got to educate the whole of the armed forces and if you remember, no, no, no, 19 now this is an organisation that churns quite a lot of people this is a real ongoing responsibility to educate defence about what our obligations are under the Hague Convention training, doing command post exercise and field exercise, defence engagement when military talks to another military sporting other government departments like DFID, perhaps with humanitarian alien disaster relief and liaison with a wide spectrum of other parties and then during operations itself targeting in liaison at all levels and some of those things are Secretary of State for it said at a practical level you can see there the two items are actually mentioned in the Hague Convention securing respect and co-operating with the civilian authorities how do you task it through army headquarters that's the structure of the unit one plus 14 with four group B reserves we've managed to swing a couple of posts to the Royal Navy and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force they need these kind of skills monuments, fine arts archives, archaeology architecture, structural engineering, art conservation art logistics and art investigations so we're looking at people with a relevant degree of experience in working in the country probably well so there are the first six who are in and Historic Environment Scotland, the Heritage Building Surveyor, freelance archaeologist Royal Auxiliary Tarthing Specialist, Heritage Advisor who's an intelligence officer Professor of Gearchology who's an intelligence officer project manager with English Heritage Army Air Corps and four civilians working for the National Trust Museum of London Oxford University and Tomadine Heritage Architect so those are the first 10, the ones on the bottom are civilians who are now starting the process of their army officer and RAF officer selection training which go through a few more candidates on the right always looking for more people so do you column me afterwards within, this was at the first training course to be ran, within a month of that we had someone with the working with the blue shield training the Irish Defence Forces before a UN deployment, someone in NATO talking to them about cultural property protection someone training the Defence Human Security Advisers course, someone working with the Metropolitan Police on war crimes. That was the whole course lots of people there on the right hand side, there were seven different nations and on top of that there was UNESCO Interpol, the Carabinerie Metropolitan Police two officers from their Cymru Centre of Excellence and others we were doing the integration of cultural property protection in higher planning processes, very complicated actually quite simple, briefings on things like humanitarian disaster relief from the French officers on Mali and the Central African Republic and all those other things, Historic England came along to talk to us about First Aid and Drones for Assessment and Nigel came to talk to us about the Monuments, Fine Arts and Archives sections in the Art Loot Investigation Unit we went out on the ground, we did some recces we were looking at those things at Hinton Ampler at Fort Brockhurst in Gosport and the Royal Garrison Church in Cortsmouth in order to understand some of those points above and then there was on the side, we had Heritage of War team down and Tim Lawton came down to present the certificates Mat Room Briefing, because Southern Park where we were delivering this course was out in the house headquarters before D-Day get an ID card, get some badges big story about that took a long time to get put a badge on the uniform but I think it's important from my perspective particularly the ones on the left the big blue shield when you're in a headquarters someone can immediately identify what your role and responsibility is within this headquarters and from my perspective that was an important thing to do, get some equipment we're looking at the standard operating procedures which I explained before we've got to do a lot of awareness, training and raising the profile within defence we have on our intranet the Army Knowledge Exchange on which there's a cultural property protection page the government or it was announced by the Secretary of State for Defence that we would have a human security centre of excellence on hold at the moment that centre of excellence would include cultural property protection if it does come back I've put this slide up as my final slide and my final slide to a briefing at Army Joint Headquarters recently Senior Commanders, what to do and J1 to 2 are all the different things that we do in the armed forces so personnel is 1, 2 is intelligence 3 operations, 4 kit, 5 is 5 is 5 is planning 6 comm 7 is finance 8 7 is training, 8 is finance and 9 is policy legal and media and then I flicked on to the it was just the idea to give people something to do and I flicked on for the last slide and then the most senior officer in the room said so Tim what are the kind of responsibilities here for defence and I went Admiral, let me just flip back to that side I draw your attention to senior commanders and the second point failure can be a war crime and there was pin dropping silence for a sort of took 3 I ask that question so that's what underlies this there are legal obligations on the United Kingdom armed forces to comply with the hate convention 1954 for the protection of cultural property during the event of armed conflict and we will deliver thank you Tim thank you very much for a very detailed and meaty presentation my bad I got the timing slightly wrong at the top of this talk but we do have a couple of minutes for some questions arising from our presentation now and then we will run from 12.30 to 13.30 do we have any questions I'll write it back and then a couple of questions who are you shouting at on deck I suppose and if you could state your name hello I'm John Mow I work for the cancer bureau on SBO2 a few years ago but I just want to raise the issue of you referred to the medical interface being active here and you referred only to the caravaniery in Italy there was 300 in the caravaniery and there was two here and when I talked to two extreme of these officers a couple of years ago they had been supported to record them prior so I mean although you are taking a picture of the law picture there are still quite a few gaps in the civil response of this happily I represent the defence not the home office so the politic thing there would be to say nothing but what I can say is that Interpol have produced a paper which recommends that every Interpol member has a national heritage crime unit in their law enforcement area and I'll just leave that there That's a big question I think in education and training run hand in hand we've got to do the education before you can actually do the training so it's a long-term delivery of this but we're looking at exercises now we're looking at a big US reinforcement exercise into Europe next year we're looking at Allied Rapid Reaction Corps exercises and UK 3D exercises because you've got to start somewhere and so if we there's going to be a multi-pronged approach to this we can produce things like a defence culture property protection hamper and throw that on AKX and probably very few people will read it we can churn out packs of cards, posters we can do unit briefs that we can put on AKX that the legat can go and deliver from the brigade or wherever but this should be part of our ongoing training and if you look at what's in our military and your training tests at the moment there is one question only on cultural property protection and perhaps that could be looked at and maybe there should be more where we're pushing into defence but I think we need to get out there and get participating in exercises because it is a whole force responsibility so you can't just show up on an exercise and do it you've got to be wrapped into the military the main events list so you've got to be participating in the structural delivery of the exercise so that's a big ask as well for 15 reserves so there's a lot to do for a small number of people but there also are legal officers who can help deliver this training and education and support on exercises as well probably not a terribly complete answer but we're going to get right in there I think that's a really good question so what are our responsibilities in regard to the natural environment and the natural environments which are protected and if you look at one of the UNESCO World Heritage Sites I believe is a Cornish tin mining area well that's half of Cornwall and what are we supposed to do to protect half of Cornwall from damaged destruction and looting and disruption to that natural environment and I think these are issues that we'll have to work through the ones that I've got in front of me are concerning cultural property and its protection but it very soon edges into that whole area of the legislation surrounding protection of the natural environment as well and there are other parts of the army that may particularly be engineering looking at those areas as well I will always defer that one to our legal advisers as to what our responsibility is It could also be a question for us to discuss at the end of the day on the round table I think it's a very broad issue Thanks for the question One more question perhaps if arising from the paper specific to this I love the way for that I'm just chatting with people The lab has not just been under the training so every single person is certainly the advocate and the advisory for the air force has trained a cultural property annually but they also get it when they join the air force I don't know they also get that training every time they promote a cultural property but they are all about a property which includes specifically cultural property protection and that how that is delivered changes depending on the level of the community so you get more of it by the current responsibility so senior parties get more more responsibility and their accountability so I just want to be useful to people to provide a little bit more context because he is absolutely right so the air force, the army, the navy are larger organisations that do have a large amount of children because we are at the same time that some of us have done much of what we want so I think the cultural property plays a part in and I think there are definitely an opportunity to get a cultural property unit for example in the overarching government structures that are training to make sure that you can also help to ensure what words are delivered already and join in so that we can have a movement that could do reservists which is a very small number of a very good task there is a whole lot of other people doing that to get back to nature to deliver more what is we going to be doing I agree, absolutely I think that from our perspective that Spider-Man, as Uncle said to Spider-Man with great power comes great responsibility we have enormous power on the back of the field in terms of the application of legal force and it is up to us to discharge our obligations under a whole panoply of legislation in accordance with those obligations and we very much look forward to working across all departments all single services and with the legal departments in order to ensure that the training delivered ensures that our personnel meet can meet those obligations when they are called on to do so Tion, thank you very much