 Alright, thanks for staying with us now referencing a daily post-publication from the 20th. The Ocean State Governor, Ademola Delike, stated that his administration is committed to local government autonomy in the state. He noted that the local government autonomy is aligned with the principles of federalism and it gives government to the grassroots. They could drop this hint during the ongoing ministerial briefing in the state. Presented by his deputy, Kola Adewusi, the governor held the local government administration. Local government administration in the state has been bastardized by politics. Now according to him, local government needs to be granted autonomy as this is the grassroots government through which the people get the dividends of democracy. And at the same time granting autonomy to the local government is in total accord with the principle of federalism. Adelike also has showed that his administration would bring normalcy and take steps to correct the aberrations of the past. Now considering the state of politics today, all your thoughts on Ocean State governorship, the upturning of Governor Adelike's governorship and also this local government autonomy, that's the conversation we're having today now. Please, let's hear your thoughts. Remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS of what happens with 1-803-4663. You can also tweet at us, at Weisho Afqa, one of the hashtag Weisho. So I'm going to bring in Kulinawal in a minute. I just wanted to hear your thoughts, D'Ola, what do you think? I mean, I've heard this in different quarters that local government autonomy is what we need and I see it every day. So before I actively started participating in conversations around politics. So when people used to say those things, I didn't understand. I couldn't get it. But now with every day, with every news that I read, with every engagement that I see, I see that the truth is local government truly must have that autonomy. They must be empowered because everything about the state rises and falls on the local government because those are the ones that are closest to the people. So your inner streets, all of those things, your drainage, all those things are supposed to be controlled by the local government. So now I'm just wondering, as a governor, shouldn't you be happy that somebody is trying to take the burden off your neck so that you just empower them to do their job? I don't know why state governors are now against, you know, and our states. Lagos state is one champion in it. But let me hear your thoughts quickly. You know what they say, absolute power is very intoxicating and having control over the funds of the local government is also something. So for a governor who probably doesn't even understand what local government autonomy even means, you know, he doesn't see the need, he or she probably doesn't see the need and then just feels, okay, you know what, I can do everything. I have absolute control. And so for me, I would say that it's important that even us as citizens, we need to get to a point where we educate, enlighten and empower such that we understand what the tiers of government, you know, what they do, the role of the local government in governance. So that even when elections like this come up, we understand that, listen, the governor is very far from us. The person we need to make sure, you know, gets there to do what we want is the local government chairman. So when we have, when we focus on that, you know, we would begin to want to get the best people into power. So I think that's... So sadly, the person that is even fighting for the local government autonomy is one that they have obtained his well. But let me bring in Kule Lawal. He's an entrepreneur, idea generator, TEDx speaker and a patriot. He has a keen eye for opportunities based on his experience in the politics, political space, working with non-governmental organization and the federal government. Now he's passionate about Nigeria and is what would call de-tribalized Nigeria. So he considers his boundaries to be limitless and is really focused on changing the Nigerian narrative in political participation. That's why we had to bring him in today because we don't have a better guest to have this conversation with. Kule, thank you so much for always honoring our invitation whenever we call. You look darker this evening. We've not seen you this year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year, why? It's always great to be on Waze. You know, I consider Waze as family. And this is a conversation that's very close to my heart. Absolutely. Because you are one person that helped me to see the picture. So Kule was part of the people that educated me on local government and how, so even if certain things are happening, how we can hold the local government accountable. So when that story broke, I remember sharing it to you and I was saying, Kule, we have to talk about this. What came to your mind? So with all the good things that have been happening and all of that, did you kind of like preempt that that was going to happen? You know, eventually I've always believed this, which is first and foremost. The first hand shake of democracy to the Nigerian is the local government. And we've kind of underplayed it. So I'll start with a little example. Etiusa, which is where we are in, was considered probably the most intelligent local government in Nigeria. And also the most advanced, infrastructurally thought process. But now here's the problem. Etiusa in a local government election does not have participation up to 7% of its voting population. And meanwhile, when you also check into Etiusa, you would now find out that Etiusa has a federal allocation, not state, of about 503 million per month. It begs to ask the question, what exactly have we been asking for or yearning for? Now, there is a common misconception by people who are in power. And I really blame, you know, the initial 99 sets because we've had local governments more functional in the military rule than we have in a democracy. If I remember the first few police cars which you got with look flashy were given by Algon, which is the committee for local government chairman. But you know, coming into a democracy, you find their phones be seized and you have an argument over their autonomy. Now, I know we have a lot of sands in this country, but I find it highly, I don't know what word to use that wouldn't sound aggressive on TV. I find it highly condescending that in the constitution of Nigeria, state government is separated, local government is separated, and the argument of local government autonomy exists. In Nigeria, I don't know whether we want in our constitution, we should write, the president should brush his teeth at 7 a.m. It is autonomous as by the separations of the captors as is. And that is why some governors in their immaculate power have decided to think they could suck elected local government chairman, which have been obtained by courts. And you ask yourself the question, what do the people even think? So the average Nigerian thinks that local government's powers emanate from the state. No, they do not emanate from the state. A separate tale of government, their powers come from the constitution. Like it comes from the federal, it comes from everybody else. It's highly impressive to see someone like Adelike who's referred to as a dancing governor to even understand the basic concept of governance. Now let's also push it. And once in a while I'd like to advise people who are lawyers. And you find most lawyers wanting to argue on the parameter that we should have state police in this country. Yet we're being trained by Hollywood. I would say Hollywood has been able to inculcate directions into our thought processes. And you see the sheriff trying to handle matters here, handle matters here as local government. So security is also vested even in the Nigerian constitution in local government. And we just want to scream state police and we feel that's the most grass roots pop. Who is going to drive the state police if not from the local government? So in Nigeria we kind of think of governance. The simplest way to think of governance in Nigeria is kind of funny. So we love the roof, which is the federal government. We love the windows and the blinds and whatever that exists, which is state government. And then we left the foundation of the house to be non-existent. So I don't know how to understand. And you know, it's a big problem. We're talking about border security. Border security can never be enforced in any country, be it China, US, Australia. The country's massive borders cannot be existent without local government police. At the first stand, they're the first parameters in which we see movies you watch. County Sheriff, America, we love you. You'll be watching a movie and you'll be like, this mayor was bad. That mayor is local government chairman. How can we translate it to Nigeria? We changed our own name to mayor. Because again, let me try to break something in. I see that maybe that is why the problem is, well, things are changing now. But the crop of people that went into elections, especially at that local government level before, they were nothing to write home about. It was like the downtrodden. It's just like in Nigeria. People that did not make Waik, or they had to join 10 Waik Results to make one Waik Results, are the ones that go to teachers' college. They're the ones that end up as teachers. They're the ones that teach your children in primary school. So that is why even the state of the educational sector has really, really gone down, right? We don't have the brilliant minds. We don't have the clear minds saying, oh, I just want to become a teacher. No. It used to be that I have tried to get a job in an oil and gas. I've tried to get a job in what's the Gwanking sector. I've tried all these other sectors. It's not working. So teaching is the next line of action, and they go there. That's where I think the problem is with the local government, because it seems like everybody is not interested. It's not attractive. It's not this. So how do we even start to correct that? I know things have changed because I've seen a few local government chairmen that are really, really impressive, right? But how do we even make it a lot more, like make the executives and all of that, make their positions less attractive and less to push that foundation to say, this is the foundation. This is the beauty of this structure. If you want the structure to stand, let's focus on the foundation. How do we get ourselves to start to do that? So it goes back to the fact that Nigerians do not even respect the local government. So I've advised or been part of quite a lot across different political parties. I've seen that the average educated Nigerian does not want to run for local government office. Now, the real change, people feel, I want to go for House of Rep. I want to have that elitist neutral, which is very Nigerian about us. But the truth is if governance was managed properly, there's no local government in Nigeria that ends less than $130 million a month, which means you are sitting on the budget of at least $130 million without corruption. Per month? Yes, to direct and organize. So it is more, I would even say more, how do I put it, honorable to run for a local government office. It's more honorable in the U.S. to be called male than to even be within the council origin. But the thing with Nigeria is I don't know whether the House of Rep sounds sweet, State House of Assembly, you know, there's a nice ring to it that we kind of like. You've got me charming. Yes, so we've imbibed that culture and you rarely see people that are, you know, almost minded participating in such. It's the same way we have left the delegate system in political parties for anybody. And then when anybody decides to collect $100, $200 and selects anybody for us, then we now, the elites, have to scramble within the selection that was made for us and then decide to go into an election. So for me, I think the biggest problem with local governments in Nigeria is the fact that we've remained totally and fully politically illiterate. And because of that, so forget you're in Etiusa, you have 100,000 Facebook followers. It doesn't change anything. You don't know anything. And you know, it's highly shocking. So having an experience in Northern Southern Nigeria, it's highly shocking that I would actually expect that, you know, somewhere like Etiusa will pull probably a local government chairman that's breaking records. But now the people of Etiusa, when it's time for local government elections, they're probably your resorts. They don't even come out. They're probably your resorts were on TV, so that's not advertising a resort. When either one of your resorts, or that's the time they'll say, oh, I need to spend it with my sugarbeam, or I need to travel abroad, you know, fill in elitists. In the end, they don't even understand government. So your basic advertising taxations come from local government. We complain about such things. And you know, you can imagine your show, you put it billboard outside. You're going to be facing local government. You deal with markets, we're facing local government. And nobody, and you know, it's so hard. If I asked, took 10, 9 turns, and I decided to ask, okay, so who's your local government chairman? Most of them will not be able to answer it. And therein lies the problem. That's where I feel the problem. There's no attention to it. And I'll say Nigerians are so fixated on presidency. It's even so shocking that heading towards February 25, I can tell you that everybody just knows, I'm going to vote this guy for president. Okay, you vote this guy for president. Let's go locally a little bit. Okay, I'll send it. Because the same guy I voted for president down the line. Let's go across the question line. You know, today I was speaking somewhere at an event before I came here. And the person was like, oh, so you can vote different parties. They didn't know that. I was highly, I don't want to say, shook that someone could ask me that question. But how innocently she asked me. I knew she was not kidding. She actually assumed that if you vote give or take, let's say let's just pick a party. In any one party, let's just say PPP. You have to pick. Which is not it. If I vote PPP at president, I must vote PPP at the Senate, then House of Representatives. That's what people do. So that's why you see that even the campaigns are focused on the principle. Because they know once they get people to vote for the principle, the voting just goes template. I used to be like that, but we have changed. Let's go on a break. When we come back from the break, we'll continue the conversation. Stay with us. All right. Thanks for staying with us. Now, if you just tuned in, we are discussing the state of the nation. We're focusing on Oshun governorship and we're also focusing on local government autonomy. And we have Kulelewa with us. Remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to the rate 1-803-4663. You can also tweet at us at Weissho, please. The phone line for WhatsApp is for WhatsApp or text message only. Somebody has been trying to call persistently, but that's not a phone for to take calls. It's the call, sorry, the SMS and the WhatsApp line. Besides calls are only on Tuesdays and Thursdays when we have our ladies night out. All right. So, Kulele, because I want us to quickly dovetail into the, you know, the governorship saga that happened or whatever. I don't know what to call it. They want to sack our dancing governor, the man that gives us some moves online, right? So, but I just want you to quickly touch on this. Like if we try to sum it up, how do we, how do we, what's the best process? Because we've gone through now and it's not, it's hitting a brick wall. What's the best process if we want to really fight for this autonomy? Should the people take up the fight? Okay. I think one of the first things we need to understand is that the local government do not have immunity. And this is something I think we've never really paid attention to. So, you know that Etiusa ends 503 million. Etiusa probably has one or two healthcare centers, about three or four primary schools that are public owned. I don't think they have up to four public owned. Remember that the jurisdiction of local government is primary education, primary health, which are healthcare centers. And you have 503 million a month. I don't think your Dekki Expressway should look like, you know, something for a donkey cart to be nice about it. So, 503 million you could decide to pick on this this month, pick on that this month. This is excluding internal generated revenue by local government. And we all know that. Ha, radio tax, digital tax, every tax. And you are in Etiusa. So, I do not see how Etiusa does not clock 2 billion every month. I do not see it. So, you have 2 billion every month. What exactly is going on here? Do you do it with Etiusa? And I think what's key is that the citizens do not understand that these guys do not have immunity. So, if they don't have immunity, it means they can be sued and they can sue. So, it means that if you sue them, they will go to jail for doing what exactly is not being done. But you know, rather take bigger pictures. Ah, you know what? Ah, this president, I don't like him. And that's the kind of argument you want to have. What is your basis? I don't like the president. It's not for my part of the country. That has nothing to do with you. The transformer, your issues. In fact, you don't have pipe bomb water in Etiusa. I'm sorry, I grew up in Northern Nigeria. I kind of find that odd. But you don't have... Yeah, I went to my university as a damn place. No, I'm not sure of it. No, it is good you are saying this. I was saying to someone today that the Katrina State Government, right, I think they are the one of the underestimated or what do they call it? You know, people don't understand what is going on there. There are some things that you worry about in Lagos that is just... I mean, is it given that things are happening? No, no, no, look at the figures. Since you mentioned Kadna, look at the figures. You have Lagos probably generating about five something billion IJR in a year and 25 million people. If you divide that, what do you have? Now you look at Kadna State about the general population of less than four million generating one hundred and twenty-something billion a month. Yes. So it's like, let me break this down for the viewer so that it doesn't sound complicated. It's like, I'm working for Shell, I'm earning one million a month and I have ten children. Then maybe I'm working for an advertising company. I'm earning 500k but I have one child. What I'll be able to do is far more. So Lagos lives under the hoax of we generate the most. But to what cost and what end? How many people do you have in your state? What infrastructure are you providing? I'm given that Lagos would have even been able to generate even much more, right? And even with the little that you generate as a state, how accountable? Because again, the entire state doesn't even focus only on Lagos state. Governance in Nigeria is almost like, you know, a retirement plan. It's almost like, you know, damages is free money, my ATM machines. Because people don't see governance beyond just pockets and all of that. Because like you rightly said, if I'm generating 500 million per month, right? Or I have a revenue of 500 million per month. Let's not even do too much. This month, let's focus on this. This month, let's focus on that. By the time your four years are collapsing, there is no part of the local government that you would not have touched. Do you understand? If you truly, if the focus was truly on governance. But the focus has never been on governance. And again, I hear you. It is also the people that have allowed it this long. Because now, if we start to sue them, and if we start to demand questions and ask them, what did you use this revenue for? How did you, you know, because again, most of these roles that you see being fixed are still being fixed by people. Because I know we are also contributing money, you know, to fix our own road. So where is the money that you were given for us as, you know, as a local government chairman? But you know, it's, I mean, it's an interesting... Okay, so I think if the topic is local government autonomy, that's to say that they really do not have autonomy. So they can easily say that, well, we're not saying this money. This money is there. But we're not, it's not getting to us. You agree with that? I mean... No, no, let me explain. You see, this is where it gets interesting. So if they claim they don't have autonomy, that's not your problem. FACA locations comes from federal to the local government. How they use it or whoever takes it along the way, it's not your business. What is your business? Is that you have this social amount of money, which is shown on FACA locations sent to this particular local government. Defend what you used it for. It's very simple. But if people are, you know, trying to scamper and say, maybe in some cases they'll say, ah, one governor took it. Fine. Even if the governor takes it, that's not your business. Hold the local government chairman and say, okay, guy. He himself will hold him. He himself will hold him. So when you hold him, you now say, governor, even if I'm ordered to give you members, I can't. I will go there. You, you get immunity. I will get immunity. Please, I beg you. And that's it. And that's how you start to get the system to work. So we kind of are expecting government to fight itself over money. It's gaining for itself. It has to be the people. But quickly, let's move on to this governor, delicacy issue, right? Where are we with it? Is it going to appeal and what's, what's, I mean, so can we even get to that point where I was watching the video. Someone was saying that can we not get to the point where we don't go to what's it called tribunal, or this election tribunal? Because now me, my real question in this question is what happens in 2023? Okay. So this is almost like a pointer. Yes. Go ahead. And, you know, they say with change, of course, comes strife. So it's natural that, you know, the electoral act of 2022 has brought in beavers. Now beavers does a biometric identification that's added to your PVC before you vote. So in the situation of Ocean State, what happened is an overvoting this thing. Now you wonder with the identification, how did that happen? So beavers, before the electoral act of 2022, the usual, the old electoral act stated, once there were 5,000 voters registered in, let's say, Waze polling units, 5,000 voters in Waze polling units, Anak was not concerned with what happened except the voters exceed 5,000 voters. But with the 2022 electoral act, and I need to state this thing so that we have a clear picture, the 2022 electoral act is clear. What it says is, is the number of accredited voters that determine what votes come from that polling unit. So in the case of Ocean, you had people are accredited, let's say in Waze polling unit again, let's say 20 accredited. Meanwhile, the total voters are 50. And then the guys with the old game still decided to go behind the machine and do the term print on the ballot and get 50 because it's 50 that is here. Eventually, when they check the beavers, it is over voting because it's only accredited voters. So it's only people that they've checked their PVC, matched the biometric to themselves. End of story. So what they did was cancel 410 or 400 and something polling units. And then what was left when they did the math was that they lost. But let's remember that this was taken by a court in Southwest. It's still subject to the Supreme Court's interpretation. So we wait for the Supreme Court finally. Wait, Okune, when we voted in 2015, we did the biometrics. Yes, but then the biometrics was not interacting with INEC. It was just... Identified that you were the best. So it was on spot. You can actually walk in the favor of people that are willing to use their PVCs to elect. So it's not really a bad thing. Because where I was worried was, somebody don't want to finish, you don't celebrate, you now go again and then everything now changes. It's not actually a bad thing. So what it's showing is that there's the human element of corruption still within our system. No matter how you automate the system, the good part with the fact that it's automated now you can detect the human difference. And it cannot be altered. So the figures from the beavers cannot be tempered with. No, so accreditation. So what it does when you check your... So now, apart from 2015, that's post-2015, and as soon as the first time it was tested, so after 2015, once you put in that thing, it relates directly to INEC and relates back. It checks the INEC server, which means there's a hit. So based on those hits, it can calculate the number of accredited voters. So if you go to and print the ballot after, let's say, like the example I get, 30 more people go to and print. Yeah, it could take some time, but when INEC pulls out its information, it's only 20 people. It doesn't align. So instead of doing anything, it will cancel. What INEC's move is, is that it cannot separate which 20 on these things. So INEC will cancel the entire polling unit. So what if the past governor, oh, it's all up, you know, what if he had just taken it in good faith? Okay, I didn't win, you know, Adelike is the winner. Because I think he challenged this, this result. That's why they went to the tribunal. In here, it's Kunlis' last line. Wait, make, wait, because now fear they catch me. What if that party... fake voters, well, we'll call it extra voters, was the pressing intention before. And so for instance, I want to, I know Jola is going to win me. They get to. I know Jola is going to win me in certain polling units. So I planned people to go and deliberately spoil those, this thing, and have excess people vote in, even in my favor. Because now what you are saying is that they have not checked the ballot paper to know who was not accredited. You understand? They're not comparing it with what who actually voted. So what if that vote did not, it was not really my intention. I mean, it was my intention to actually use it to nullify knowing that she was going to win. Okay, so that's how we say it's the subject interpretation from the Supreme Court. So at the Supreme Court, now, the Supreme Court can't, of course, pin our neck on any of these, you know, related issues. You just qualify this polling unit here, X. Okay, give us the information you have for accredited. And only the Supreme Court can do that. Give us the information you have for accredited voters. Give us the information for total voters. We can see through. And once those two information is provided, you know who did what and how. Okay, so they'll be able to provide the ballot papers and all of that. Yes. Oh, fantastic. Then we are good. Yes, we are. So for me, it's a minor glitch in where we are going to. We've constantly done the things we are used to as Nigerians. Let's see how the system fights itself. You know, the president has been fully clear that if there's anything he's going to do right, it's going to be determination. Anybody that wins the election free of fair will get the seat. Yeah, okay. He's been very strong on that. I'm happy now because I was a bit worried because after we are done voting, as somebody there, it's okay. So I get you. So they can pull out those information and now know where this... But remember, this was so based on jurisdiction. This was a high court, I think, somewhere in San Francisco. But what if again, let me paint the scenario. What if I knew she was going to win and I planted those people to vote in her favor and they now pull out the result and they see that those extra people that were not accredited voted for her. I will still fulfill my purpose. No, you need to understand this. So the way law and justice works, you need to understand that they are blind. As much as in Nigeria, we're trying not to. So their business... It's emotionless. Yes, it's emotionless. So their business is only with those that were accredited and what those accredited people did. Any other things? So any other things? Okay, so as long as they can match the accredited voters to who they voted for, we are good. Any other thing is your business. Okay. They are not even concerned about it. It's a waste of time. I think we can let man, any layman outside like me, if understood the matter. All right, so let's take some comments. Good evening, my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying, ways. I assume it says, your guest made mention of people not knowing the names of their local government chairman, which is very sad and unfortunate, but they are interested in good governance. Sister was said that in Nigeria, their own understanding of true governance is caring for their own pockets without performance. This alone is wrong. I don't know why Adiola, Ademola Adeleke's election was nullified. Sister, please try and stop waking up early and get enough rest. You need to thank you so much. Someone who is not agile cannot work effectively. Abio, Daniel, Illo, you don't understand. We have to work while we are young. Yeah, so this says for me, autonomy or no autonomy, most of these governors control them by remote. These governors ensure that they put in two Gs who can challenge them. When the monthly allocations come from Abuja, these same governors dictate the disborsements. Unfortunately, the citizens office is docile. Why are you not bothered that the legislation for creation of LG autonomy was rejected in the states? These LG chairmen are tied to the apron strings of Orga Governors, same with state houses of assembly. So whether the dancing governor wants the autonomy, he does not change anything. This is Austin from Delta. So Kunli, let's wrap up. Okay, so to answer Austin from Delta, Austin needs to understand one critical thing. So regardless of what's going on, if they want to give the governors their money, problem now. We sue you, you cannot defend it, you go to jail. They bring another person, the other one goes to jail. One of them will say... Enough is enough. So we cannot expect governors to say, you know what, I love my people so much, I'm just about to give autonomy. It doesn't even have the power. The onus lies on the citizen to take drastic risks. We want to be America. We want to be UK. We want to Japan, be like Canada. But we're forgetting that this civilized society is putting a lot of work to be where they are. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think if I've gotten anything from the conversation tonight, it still tells us back to everything that they power lies with us as the citizens. You can do whatever you want to do there as long as we are in power. And I like the fact that you kept on happening that these guys don't have autonomy. I mean sorry, they don't have immunity. They don't have immunity, they don't have immunity. Meaning that if there's an allocation and there's something that's supposed to be done with that allocation, you know, you can actually question them, you can sue them, you can take them to court, you know. Hopefully we'll be able to get it right because we are shouting... But I need to add something. I think I need to add something here. So I know people who want to say you want to sue them, you want to carry a legal state chairman to court in Lagos. You don't carry them to court in Lagos now. Abuja. Just report the case to EFCC and carry them to court in Abuja. Those ones are ready to... They are ready to act. It's none of their business. So you play on such parameters. Citizens need to get wise. We need to be responsible. You don't need to play the game as predictable. So I can just go and sue the man in Kafancha. They will call you for Kafancha. And you know EFCC, they are very agile. They are always ready to... But quickly, who protects the citizen? Because now you know these people have talks they work with. Okay, so if I'm a citizen in Lagos and I want to sue let's say Ibotik, I don't want to use Atyosa again so that I look like I'm attacking Atyosa. And I want to sue let's say and let's say I'm from... Just anyone. I'm from Kalaba, municipal. So I want to sue Kalaba municipal. What kind of case to Abuja? Sue, Kalaba, municipal. Do I need to put my name on it? I don't. I can put... We have our progressive unions. Is it not Nigeria? The only thing the unions do is to drink together on Saturday and celebrate Nemi ceremony with one member. We don't use it to do anything. It doesn't have to have a name tag. So you can actually just anonymously sue them. Awesome. There shall be some suing that will go on. But thank you so much Kune. I think we've had a very educated conversation. Every time I sit with you, I always learn more about the political space. That's why... People that don't know what to do can go and follow him because he does a lot of polytracy. That's what we call it. That's very important. So for me, it's the blue suit. Thank you. Have it before we go and show you follow us of course all our social media handles that we show Africa you can interact with us further. Drop a comment and more importantly follow all our engagements on social media like, share, invite your families and friends to watch and follow. Share so that more people can hear it. If you missed our quote for the day, here it is again. There's love for country and there's governance only when they intersect can progress be achieved. And this was from my very own Kunlilawaw. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8pm to bring another great conversation to your screen. Enjoy.