 Also, I want to introduce you to Jaws Lavery, who's my co-host today. Hi there. I'm very excited about your new release, The Zella Gene. It's going to be released on January 28, 2022 via Inside Out Music, two years into making due to COVID. Again, a pleasure to speak to you again. Jaws, you want to kick things off? Yeah, I mean, the first question I had, and this is very exciting because it is the first album you've released under the moniker of Jethro Toll for some time. I had read a couple of years ago that you were somewhat uncomfortable with the name Jethro Toll, and obviously your last two records have been released as Ian Anderson. Why is the time right now for a Jethro Toll release? Well, the time that I mentioned about being uncomfortable with the name Jethro Toll was probably 10 years ago rather than two years ago. And basically, I suppose over a lot of years, not just recently, but going back to the very beginning, I was uncomfortable about being named after a dead guy who invented the seed drill according to the history books, and it was a name given to us by our agent back then. Before I realized that it wasn't a made up, invented name, it was actually the name of a real person. So I've been uncomfortable about it since essentially probably February of 1968, but you know, I have to accept that that's the name that we started off with and became successful with. And after a couple of weeks of performing under the name Jethro Toll, it seemed like a bad idea to change it because we were getting noticed and getting some positive reactions. And the last thing you want to do is then, just as you're having some signs of early success is to change the name. So we had to stick with it. And that was, as I say, a long time ago, 53 years ago. Back then, it probably bothered me on and off over the years, but I've just grown to accept it. And in terms of releasing an album now under the name Jethro Toll, more than anything, it reflects on the fact that the guys playing on the album have been playing as members of Jethro Toll live in concert for, on average, 15 years, which makes it the longest continuous lineup of any group of musicians in Jethro Toll. And yet they'd never actually been on an album released simply as Jethro Toll. So it was really, it was really respecting and honoring their long commitment to performing with the band that made me think, well, this is a band album. I wrote it for the band. It's, you know, something that we at least recorded the first seven songs together in the studio playing live as a band. And unfortunately, as you pointed out, COVID got in the way of finishing off the album when I was hoping to be able to complete it in 2020. So it ended up not being completed until 2021, around June, May, June of the year. So yes, it wasn't that it was long in the making in terms of the number of hours that we spent making the record. It was seven tracks were rehearsed in five days and recorded in four days. And that's pretty good going. And it's just the last five songs had to wait for a long time. And I ended up recording those at home myself because we couldn't really get together in the studio due to the lockdowns and difficult circumstances surrounding COVID earlier this year. But, you know, a total number of hours spent on it's about the same as any other album really just spread over a long time. I was fairly impressed with this album and for the listeners out there and the viewers who don't know it other than the first single that was released, can you can you be transparent maybe a little bit about the lyrics or is that something you want to be hidden? You want to keep hidden? Is it a concept album or is it a loose concept or is just a variation of lyrical ideas and themes? Well, it's all explained in great detail in terms of the liner notes on the on the on the final physical products. So no point in being coy about it. But I started off with the idea of writing a series of songs based on strong human emotions. Not just strong, but over the top human emotions. I wrote a list, you know, I wrote a list of one word examples of emotion that I that I would choose to write songs about. And I wrote some good stuff, like loyalty, companionship, compassion, fraternal love, spiritual love. And I wrote some bad stuff like anger, rage, jealousy, retribution. And I looked at my list of about 15 words and decided that these are all words that I remember encountering in a prominent way in the Bible. So I I then did a big search of the Bible looking up lots of biblical text in reference to those one word pointers that I that I had written down as potentially material for the album. And I I use those copied and pasted verses of text from the Bible as a just as a page of reference material that I could just go back to remind myself of of examples of those extremes of emotion. So I didn't actually use any biblical text in the in the lyrics to the album. It just was there as a as a as an umbrella, just just something I could sit underneath. And and and it it it was a roof over the over the the very different material in the songs that I you know, I took I took the material and tried to give it in almost all cases, a relevance in terms of today's world. It's not not set in historical times, although maybe one song, you know, is is is is left more conspicuously at that at that biblical event that it describes. And that's, you know, not sure what it's about. Yes, it's a concept album. It's a loose. It's not an album where I'm trying to preach to people that they should have a you know, a conversion to old or new Christianity, simply just reference points, you know, could be writing about all sorts of things as I do observationally. And this just happened to be a as is often the case, you know, there is something behind it. I I rather like writing songs where there's a reason to write them in a certain way and they have some potential relationship to each other. So that that's that's a nice thing to be able to do if you can do it. You know, second question. Well, well, you know what? I just want to follow up on that. You know, I hear like I'm a big fan of Leonard Cohen. I just hear a little bit of that vibe with the the lyrics sort of leading the music and especially with the zealogy in the song. And congratulations on that. I really think the only difference between me and Leonard Cohen is that I can play the guitar. Yeah, we could play it, but not well. Yeah, but the you know, the. Yeah, Leonard Cohen is, you know, is a character and one of those one of those lyricists who who has a way of. As opposed to dealing with subjects that draw you into his world. And that's that's what any lyricists would hope to do. But. I I tend to be a little colder and observational. I'm I'm probably because of my background in studying painting and drawing and and and to an extent photography. I'm often drawing upon visual references. In fact, not all the time, but I would say 80 percent of my songs are based on some visual reference. And I try to take those visual references and bring them into the musical sphere. So I'm I'm painting with music that's my that's my approach. But I I don't I don't very often sing songs from a personal emotional standpoint because I'm a cold, heartless northern European. You know, I am I am not an Italian or Spanish or someone who exudes big emotions and wants to express how I feel. I am not a Lannis Morissette that she's Spanish or Italian. But, you know, it's all about me, me, me and how I feel today and how I felt yesterday. And it's that that's the not my forte. I'm not really interested in telling people how I feel, you know, in terms of my inner emotions. I'm more interested in describing other people's emotions or other people's presence in the schema of things. One thing that I've yet to actually see the physical product and I probably weren't until release day, we were just given a download link one thing I noticed is one of the versions comes with a bonus disc of demos and that led me to I thought it's worth mentioning is peripherally what's been going on. For those that don't know is the last I guess we're coming closer 15 years or so as all the Jethro tell albums have been coming out. And what I would describe as the gold standard of reissues, just these fantastic boxes that essentially leave no stone unturned is what it what it seems like, I guess broadsword is next. Is this this has been a great chance to revisit the catalogue. Is is this series going to continue into like the likes of under wraps? And is that a chance to rework any of that record that you've you've mentioned that you'd love to do something with the drums on that or, you know, we redress that record in any way. Well, that that is a discussion that has been had only in very brief outline with Warner Music. I think that as you rightly point out, broadsword and The Beast is the next reissue in July of next year, which is all complete in terms of all the music. I think just a very final, final little component parts of the the packaging are just being finished at the moment. But beyond that, I can't really comment because we haven't had any detailed discussions about how far to go. Or, indeed, the availability or otherwise of Stephen Wilson, who's done all the the remixes of these box sets, you know, along with the original mixes, too. But, you know, the deluxe packages of remixes by Stephen Wilson in stereo and surround sound, something that I've always said to him from the very beginning, you know, when you've had enough, Stephen, just just say the word, just to walk away. You've done a great job, but I don't want you to feel that somehow you have to continue with this beyond your comfort zone. And I think Stephen's interest in working on this material was essentially that he was a Jethro Tull fan amongst several other groups of that ilk when he was in short trousers. And so, you know, by by the end of the seventies, and Stephen was all, you know, by that stage of his life was was a young man beginning to play his own music. And and so I think his his sort of area of of involvement as a listener was was really the music of Jethro Tull in the seventies. So extending beyond that to 1982 is probably, you know, stepping out of his comfort zone already a little bit. But, you know, these conversations have not really been been had as of yet because we're still not at that point where we're ready to talk about anything beyond about beyond 2022. All right. Yeah, I love that album under wraps. So it was just a question I was dying to ask you was all and the walking the light and that that whole era I found. I'm going to get back to I'm going to get back to under wraps in a minute or two. But I wanted to like we are a metal show and this fascination. Metalheads always gravitate towards Jethro Tull. What has been that sort of appeal over, you know, the last two, three decades of this metalheads always gravitating towards the band? Well, possibly because we know a few more guitar chords. I don't know. I suppose there is a degree of on the one hand, there's a degree of sophistication about Jethro Tull music and as a songwriter and a music writer. You know, I probably go a little bit beyond. You know, your average metal band in terms of musical. Well, sophistication is the only word that comes to mind really. But that doesn't make it good. It just makes it, you know, perhaps a little less noodley than early. Yes, but a bit more complicated than early Black Sabbath. So I suppose there is something that draws certain hard rock or alternative rock or even new wave or synth pop bands to Jethro Tull. And it's it's I suppose it's because it's something they feel is, you know, maybe a little more challenging than the music that they play. Or it's a bit more evolved and and occasionally, you know, it's got a good tune, a good melody or some interesting lyrics. So on lots of different levels, it appeals. And, you know, I said an email I was looking at this morning from Bruce Dickinson that he sent a couple of days ago asking me about doing some live performance project together in the end of next year. And so that that relationship with with other artists, it's something you kind of dip in and out of. And it's nice to know that for some of them, at least Jethro Tull music has been part of their usually part of their early days before they became established in their own right. But I think when I look back on my own influences, you know, they're very varied and I would be you know, probably equally effusive about my about some of my early influences when I was a young aspiring musician. So, you know, we all we all have moments of. I suppose feeling that there is a signpost that we might follow in musical terms that would lead us to something that we we would like to, if not emulate, at least learn by and progress towards. Is there is an album in your catalogue that you feel has been misunderstood or you wished was a little bit more, you know, well known? Is there anything in the catalogue that sticks out, you know, going through the reissues, everything gets a second chance now. But is there something that you were looking forward to people going, giving it a second look or second listen? I think there are quite a few of the the albums that are perhaps perhaps known in particular countries and not so much in others. So perhaps when when it comes to getting noticed, you know, the broadsword and the Beeson example of a record that did not do at all well in the USA because it coincided with a general move in American radio from what had been the AOR kind of approach to music, you know, album tracks, et cetera, et cetera. And then suddenly, you know, along came new wave and alternative pop and rock music, and that was the the dialing that American radio chose to follow for a few years. And that left Jethro Tull out in the coal for a while. But many of those radio stations having switched to a different format. And I suppose came to realize that the harsh realities of of marketing and sponsorship and people placing advertisements with them, that maybe that slightly younger crowd were not spending money as well. And they switched back to doing what now is termed classic rock in terms of a radio format. So many of them, you know, returned tail between the legs and went back to the thing that they had been doing. But that that, as I say, left Jethro Tull out for a while. And, you know, although we had MTV, I suppose, as a bit of a before MTV got too picky about what they were going to play, we we made an impact a little bit with Christopher Nave in terms of MTV just for a little while because they were so desperate for something to play and videos to play, et cetera, that they they even courted Jethro Tull for a few months. But, you know, you're at the mercy of a whole lot of other forces out there in the world. You can't expect to get get across to all the people all of the time in every country and other albums, you know, have done perhaps really well in the USA, but not perhaps quite so well in other in other countries of Europe or elsewhere in the world. So there are national preferences, it seems, for certain albums. And that that is probably the thing that hits me most in terms of whether people pay attention to it or not. It has more to do with national preferences. You know, there I mean, you you you inhabit the world of heavy metal. And so you will know that there are certain strongholds of heavy metal in Scandinavia, for example, in Finland or in Brazil, you know, far flung places where it gets a lot more attention than perhaps it does in maybe in the USA. You know, in terms of per capita, that that's that's the way that it is. And here in this country, you know, heavy metal or whatever has its place. But I don't think it's as as dominant a music form as as it would be in some other countries where they they they crave that simplicity and that hardness, that drive and the the sub genres of metal music are, you know, embrace all sorts of things from progressive metal to thrash metal. And it's it's over here in Europe. It's like it's a tribal thing as much as anything else. It's in two of our favorite songwriters yourself and Steve Harris. And me and Giles were debating this before the show. Did they ever meet up that it was always this big thing in the metal community? Did Steve Harris ever meet up with Ian Anderson? And surprisingly, you did. And what was that experience like? I know that Steve Harris, I don't want to say to worship you, but, you know, he cited you as a huge influence. Well, I really I probably met Steve Harris briefly on one occasion and a little bit more on another occasion, but I know he's a very shy person. And he he he said he didn't he never wanted to push himself forward in terms of trying to meet me or talk to me or whatever. It was I think I got in touch with him and asked him if he would do a little throwaway intro to a particular track on on a live concert tour we did, you know, in terms of being a video little video contribution that he offered introducing a song. And, you know, I again, I think his interest in Jethro Tell is probably based on it, having gone in a direction rather beyond the kind of performances that that you would associate with Iron Maiden. But it, you know, the first thing Iron Maiden seemed to be linked to Jethro Tell, it was a song called Cross-eyed Mary, which was on the Ackolong album. And they did, I believe, on a first early record release. I think they did it in the same key as I did, which of course put it in the impossible key for for Bruce, because, you know, he's he's he's a tenor and I'm a baritone. I'm a low baritone. So for him to sing down here, which would be for him, he had to go up an octave. But then he was going up all the way up an octave, which put it in a very uncomfortable high register that was really even as a young Bruce Dickinson, his he was pushing his luck trying to sing it an octave higher than than than my original vocal. But yeah, it is what it is. And Steve Harris is, I suppose, you know, notable for writing much of Iron Maiden's music. I don't know if he writes the lyrics as well to everything or whether Bruce has a hand in that. I I don't know. I mean, I don't really know these people very well. I mean, I just done, you know, on one occasion, Bruce was a guest of mine at a cathedral concert I did at Canterbury Cathedral in 2011. And, you know, he's a great person to work with, very professional, very straightforward. We we learned his couple of songs and and and he sang on one of one of ours. And so it was a pretty easy afternoon rehearsal to go through that material, easy guy to work with. And and I can't I can't I can't say that about many other people that I've worked with. But, you know, he's he's a easy going guy. But but Steve Harris, as we said, very shy person. I imagine he he's uncomfortable being around somebody that he's not not quite sure how I am going to, you know, my my impressions of him. I think it's just a, you know, perhaps a little bit of insecurity. Seems a very nice straightforward, humble person from the brief, brief couple of times that I've said hello. All right. In a few minutes that we have left, I just a quick shout out. See, Men Without Hats, in we live in Montreal, I live in Montreal. And on Tuesday was a massive hit. So maybe some final thoughts on recording with Men Without Hats back in the day on Tuesday, which is again, this was a huge song here in Montreal in Canada. And I'm not sure how played out in the rest of the world. But it was it could have been a Jethro Talson. Well, it's it's a nice, a nice, a nice tune that I was asked to play on, I think, because Ivan, the main man was in London. And maybe recording an album and he must have got wind of my having made some positive comments about about the safety dance, which was, you know, it's quite a hit in the UK and a refreshing one because it almost was an abandoned, crazy, sort of hippie kind of video at a time when everything else was synth pop and rather, you know, contrived. And this was a, you know, a fun, rather abandoned, wacky song that everybody loved in the UK. And and I, you know, I enjoyed it, too. And I guess he heard about that and said, oh, can we get Ian Anderson to play on a song and the record company got the message and and and I trotted into a studio in London and recorded it. And that was the end of it, really. But like everything else, you know, when I play on other people's records, I I politely refuse any form of payment because I, you know, I choose what to do. I don't I don't do everything. And I certainly I'm not I'm not a gun for hire. You know, you can't you can't you can't pay me. You know, to overcome my feelings that perhaps this isn't the right thing for me to do or that I just don't really think I can add anything useful to your song. So I've got to feel like I can make a contribution and I'm more likely to make that contribution of the music is something that is some way away from what I do because then it becomes more of a challenge to try and step out of my normal musical area and tackle something may be a little different that I've not played before. But as I say, I choose, you know, people ask me to play things, you know, a lot, particularly in the covid years. I guess they've got too much time on that. I think I must be sitting here with nothing to do. So, you know, I get asked to do a lot of things and have to politely say I'm I'm washing my hair, which is not a very convincing excuse. Well, that's all the time we have. Thank you so much for taking the time out to answer those questions. Yeah, well, pleasure to talk to you. And hopefully in the once we get the hang of this Omicron variant, maybe things will be not as bad as we fear in a few months from now. But right now, it's a rough ride over here in Europe. And and you will get to know all about it in the North America, too. In the.