 It is Monday, September 18. Monday, September 18, 2023. We're here at the John Hogan meeting room with John's online tonight. Thank you, John. There's Robin, Don, Sasha, and we have one guest, Colin, right? So you're here to present a general public comment, Colin? Yeah, I was just hoping to get an update on it. Okay, what was the comment? I was hoping to get an update about the bootbox for it. Well, we'll get off to Warthorpe Rock. I love Warthorpe Rock. I guess the last time I saw Martin, they said it was going up to... It used to be more of a very poor setup at all, but I haven't seen it go over it for almost half a month. All right, so neither of them are here. We're working with Ray, who used to be on the board. We've hired to work with FEMA to make sure things are moving along, but they are... I'll have them reach out to you and let them know and give you an idea of what their schedule is. We're not such that we watch out and everything that they're doing. We don't know, of course. I'm just trying to make it out of the south of my home. Sure, and usually actually step-ons online with us, or if I know why you usually call and give them feedback. Perfect, yeah. I knew Cheryl was working with... I just missed the last community. No, I appreciate you. Colin, is there actually on your way out, if you don't mind leaving some contact information from you on where you signed in? Yeah. And that way we can make sure they are getting the information or what you need to know. And where do you have them on? Probably both. That way they didn't choose whatever is easiest for them over the last few years. Yep. Anything else? That's it. All right, well thanks for coming. And I don't see anyone else jumping online. So there's no public comments. We have Clark coming up in five minutes or three minutes. I haven't seen him. So why don't we go ahead? Callie, do you have any reports? Sasha. Jesus, I'm sorry. Sasha. I got the tree... And that's the tree over at the other side. Yeah. That's right. That's the tree. I saw that. Robin, do you have any reports? No, just one thing on the minutes of last week on Don's thing. I thought they were going to use 2,500 of the Merb funds for the survey and then the remainder for the event. It doesn't really read that way. Yeah, we met with Dara and we were working on some other... That was the only thing I had on the old business kind of stuff. All right. I'm going to update that, I guess. Good. Don, help yourself. Well, should we wait for Clark and I'll go after that? Okay. I'm going to just do it in post communications. Clark is actually going to Clark's on right now. Oh, okay. Because I was about to launch, but okay. Oh, no. Hey, Clark. I'm thinking that's him, right? Trout or something. Trout of the Mad Dog Trout. Hey, Clark. Is this thing called off or on? Speaker or something. At least be this close to the screen and then take a look at yourself. Holy crap. Don, I've been through it. I always say when I look in the mirror, I'm like, no wonder my body feels like this. Well, the mirror isn't that bad. Hey, Clark. Hi, Clark. Hey, Don Clark. Hey, folks. Hey, Clark. Hey, Don. So we've got John online. We've got Don, Robin and myself and then Colin. What's your last thing? No. No. Orca media. So go ahead and share what you got. Docking to me. Yeah. Okay. Oh, we might be joined by Caitlin Cusack. She's with Vermont. VL Vermont land trust. And then we'll get to that. So we're going to go to the, the city of Forty. Forrest or overseas that town for us here. For the, for that. So, yeah. Just wanted to give you an update. I think you're in the warrants today. You'll probably see an invoice to pay Otter Creek. Or in which, of which we will be reimbursed. I think it's a little over 22,000. It's the first invoice that actually passed muster with the commission. I met with Cheryl and this morning along with a couple of folks from the clean water state revolving fund, just to make sure that we knew how to go through the reimbursement request process, which is pretty straightforward. And the, we talked in the past and the board. Actually Tom. You may have asked about this a couple of months ago about, you know, why shouldn't we just go ahead and pay them. But the loan hadn't, we hadn't, excuse me. We had to pay them. We had to pay them. We had to pay them. We had to pay them at that point, which we have now. So I would. Ask the board to, to approve that and sign the warrant tonight for. For that. And Cheryl, then we can put in reimbursement request once a month. We just actually hold on just a second. Let me just check something. I just barely got another. Message from. From Otter Creek. And I just want to see. They also are sending us an invoice for $900. So the, and we can put in. Once a month, we can put in requests for reimbursement. So what I would recommend, and I'll send this along to. Tom and to Cheryl Lynn. The invoice amount of $900 to go with the 22,000 and change that. That Cheryl Lynn has already does that. I mean, is that makes sense? You guys have questions about that? I think so. Yeah, thanks. Okay. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. We haven't paid them a dime or let me put it this way. There hasn't, they haven't gotten a dime for this project yet. So it would be great to, to finally. Take care of that. So we can kind of move on. The other thing I can update you with is as far as the test pits go. I mean, the, the VLT did say that they were fine with digging the, the test pits up there. They had their look. Well, they're more than they're not really lukewarm at all. They're kind of cool about actually putting a system in. But they are, they, they did say it was fine. I know that the select board gave permission to do that in the past. There's Caitlin right there. So, hey, Caitlin, this is Clark Amidon. Right here. And I'll let Tom Martin have the, introduce the select board and then your timing is good because I'm just now kind of getting into that test pits and talking about VLT and the easements and stuff. Thank you. Thank you for joining us this evening. On the line. This is like where we have John. So if you've done any business in town, you probably know John. He's sitting to my right. We have Don Wexler. He's another stuff for the member. And across me, we have Robin. Thank you, Robin. And I'm Tom Martin, the chair of the board. So Clark, if you want to go ahead and continue on or Caitlin, is there anything you'd like to share with us as you enter the meeting? Caitlin, maybe you could just talk in broad strokes in terms of because this would be good for me to your responsibilities with VLT in terms of these easements in terms of how you, how they stay, you know, the oversight of those. Yeah. Well, right now. So when I first joined VLT about eight years ago, I would have been the primary steward for this easement and then a number of other. All the easements in the Maduro Valley and then a lot of orange County. My position has shifted a bit. I'm a forester. So any harvesting that happens on conserved lands in a much larger area. I will review and approve the management plans for that. We're in a little bit of a funny place here, at least in the valley and that Liza Walker, who I'm sure many of you know well, she left VLT this July. And so we have just hired a new, her replacement. His name's Mead, Mead Binhammer. He grew up in Brookfield. He'll be starting October 16th. So Mead will be your new contact for VLT. So because of my familiarity with this property and supporting towns and their management planning, I'm part of this, you know, kind of standing in to help support the committee that's updating your management plan for your school and town forest. So we're a couple of different hats, but we are in a little bit of a transition. So when Mead comes on, I'll be working with him to come up to speed on the town properties and other properties in the conserved properties in the valley. Okay. So what's his last name? Binhammer. B-I-N-H-A-M-M-E-R. Okay, great. Cool. Thank you. That's great. Liza was a great person to have in the valley, a great resource, and many of us knew her well and worked with her on projects. So it's great that she's, I know she's moved on and looking forward to meeting Mead. Thank you. Thank you. Caitlin, what I was just explaining was that. The select board is, I think I indicated in a message to you that had approved. Digging some test pits in the upper part of the. The easement, probably about. Oh, I don't know. Three or 400 yards. Downhill from South Hill road. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. From bird's eye. Consulting forestry as well as a couple people on the committee that have been working on the forest management plan. To take a look about whether or not. That's some. Maybe worthwhile taking a look at for a site for the. For an in-ground with water system. And. So that the, we talked about with the select board. I know that's not the case. But it's a. It's the town town already owns it. The soils look promising. And, and we knew that with the easement. There that there a lot of unanswered questions. To take in. And so. And Kaitlin, just, you know, after I mentioned this, feel free to jump in and either. You know, share your perspective on this. If I happen to get something. off in terms of reporting out on our conversation. Caitlin and I spoke a little while ago, just making sure that we understood the questions about the easement and what might be possible there. And it was pretty clear that when you take a look at the language in the easement, that a system like this doesn't appear to be something that would be in line with what's possible. And so my question was, how much further can we take this in terms of taking a look at, might we try to figure out a way that if there isn't any other site within more town that looks promising, that this might be something that we could take a look at. And the other thing, Caitlin, that you had asked, which I don't know as I mentioned in a subsequent message that I've asked a couple of engineers about any trees that would have to be removed in order to get a mini excavator in there to do the work. And what I got back from three different people is that would not be necessary. So there wouldn't be any need to remove any trees. There may be some forest debris that may be on the floor of the forest that would need to be moved in terms of doing the test bits, but they obviously would be filled back in when we're done. And then I put back as close to what it was before. And just to get back to the possibility of a system there, that it seemed not something that would be at the top of the list at this point and probably at the bottom of the list. And so Caitlin, maybe you can just kind of talk a little, what you mentioned to me in terms of what the issues are with the easements and also whether there's any light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. Yeah, sure. Well, Clark, as we had spoken about, of course the LT supports a project like this. It's addressing water quality, addressing many of the town's concerns. Where we're limited is by the words in the legal document that we hold and steward that easement. So I think when you look at the easement, first we look at what are the primary purposes of the easement. And so in this case, primary purposes for conserving the property, protecting, maintaining or enhancing critical wildlife habitats, so the deer wintering area, conserving forestry values, wild cultural educational values, recreational values, those are all our primary purposes. So it would be whenever a request or an activity is proposed on a conserved property, that's one of the things we and our partner, the landowner, think about, how does it fit with the primary purposes? And then for a specific activity like this, which is a pretty significant use or change, we then think about, well, is that allowed in the permitted uses section of the easement, which is section three? And so in some cases, this type of activity, a community can think, oh, we actually might need something like that. So in that case, they write it directly into the easement, which is great when that happens, right? Cause then we can say, okay, so we've actually, we've thought about this and this is how, this is the process. In this case, we don't have that. So that's not written in the permitted uses. And so that's why, Clark, I said, if again, it sounds like no trees need to be removed, digging the test pits, there's no problem there in needing an approval. It's just, I wanted to have a conversation that it would be really difficult for us to find a way to have this type of system be installed on the protective property. I'm not, I said, I'm not saying no, because we don't have the details, the design, all that, but just in looking and reading the easement, I'm not finding a way where we can see that being fitting with the purposes and what's been outlined in the easement. You had asked, I know about, can easements be amended? And the only ways that we are allowed to amend easements are to add a grid. So in this case, this easement was amended in, what would that have been? Let's see, that would have been 2011. It was amended to add the additional acreage to the property. And then we can add, we can amend easements to add more protections. So we can't remove protections to allow for impacts or that sort of thing, but we can add protections. So the main way that that looks these days is adding an overlay of a river corridor easement on top of our existing easements. And I don't know, folks are familiar with those. Some of those have happened in the valley and other places in Vermont. And this is basically is an easement that a landowner gives up their right to armor their stream banks to protect their land. And that is allowing that river to meander, which may or may not meander and remove land impact land. And so that's in the end, the idea being it's attenuating flood waters as one of sort of many, many benefits of that type of protection. So in this case, that would be, so that wouldn't be an option in this case. So then we would have to find a way within the written document of the easement to figure out a way that this project could be allowed on the property. And that's where at this point, it's again, we don't have the details of what you're proposing, but just wanted to have this conversation initially so we could all just be aware of some of the challenges. Yeah, yeah, that's thanks. That's run along the lines of what we talked about the other day. And it's being able to have test bit data will allow the engineers to, to offer some engineering designs and that sort of thing. So that at least we'll have more data and more information to take a look at later on. So that's good. And so Tom or any of the folks on the board, any questions, comments at this point? No, I do think it's good that you've joined us. Okay, let me kind of level set us where we're at. You know, we can come back with a great test bit here and then be very disappointed. So I think the expectation up front here is to really take our time with this and then don't assume anything, even though we may own up that. I guess that's my comment and we'll go ahead and do the test pits, I think Clark. And then we'll see what type of system that we're looking for. Well, can I ask a question? Sure. I mean, does it, from hearing what Caitlin just said, does it make sense to do the test pits? I mean, we don't have land that we can add. And I think if we took land out, is that an option that we could take someone to land out in the forestry management easement program? And then be able to do a system? Or is that forever? But I'm just wondering, I mean, we do the test pits under what scenario are we gonna be able to put some kind of waste water system on land that's protected up there? Well, that's kind of just what she just said. They don't know until they have some information. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do see your point. Do we even bother going ahead or not? It's already drawn to the bottom of the list. It's just based on that consideration. Is it worth the effort to go forward? Yeah, I don't know. You know, I guess my perspective on this is that if we have, right now, the other thing that I resist about to mention this when Caitlin joined, one of the things that's delayed doing any test pits at this point is that Otter Creek has to have consulting archeologists take a look at the sites. And if you have grandkids or kids that are looking to go into a career, I would suggest archeology these days because it seems to be these days, a guarantee of income and being very busy. So they haven't been able to get consulting archeologists to even take a look at any of these things yet. However, their consulting archeologists did take a look at the Stevenson property and they came back as sensitive. I'm asking Robert what that means. I suspect that means sensitivity in terms of archeological find potentials. And I'm not sure whether that means it's not worth digging there or whether we should or whether we can. So I've got to confirm that. If it means that it's, to a certain extent somewhat off the list, then we're basically down to the site that's up behind the school that's now the site for the school waste water system and the easement. So our options are beginning to fade in here. And that doesn't necessarily mean that we're done looking at sites. As a matter of fact, the more fast discussion came up that there's a site just beyond where I live on 100B. Actually, Donnie, it's sort of across from you where that double Y to set back on that meadow on the other side of the river. The soils there look really good. And the size of it could be big enough. So we're gonna probably take a look at that as well. So anyway, that's an aside. But I wanna, you know, since Caitlin's here, I just wanna make sure that, you know, that I don't at this point, Caitlin, have any other questions for you? I'm or comments, you know, we're, I think that getting, having the data from test bits is useful in the long run, whether or not, you know, it ends up turning into something I don't know, but it's information and it's data that we can use. And, you know, it's a relatively minor disruption, I think in terms of the property. So, you know, I would certainly would like to move forward, but I don't see any reason not good. It would be reimbursable under the rest of the grant. Anyway, that's correct, yeah. Yeah, and we've been sort of indicated that it's probably pretty safe archeologically in terms of, now if it turns up, you know, somebody's, you know, coffee pot from, you know, 1910 or something, I don't think that can, you know, establishes archeological sensitivity. I think we're looking at like pre-contact stuff. So, you know, we can find an old, you know, bed frame buried there and it's not gonna, you know, hit the archeological sensitivity part. Caitlin, is there any other comments or questions that you have for the board? No, I think Clark and then, you know, Michael Brown, who was originally connected with me on this, have laid things out pretty clearly, so appreciate, you know, reaching out early and starting the conversation early. And, you know, please, as you progress, reach out with any questions or let me know if there's anything we can do to help with the process. Yeah, I mean, we'll certainly keep you posted in terms of, you know, as we move forward to take the test, but I don't wanna just kind of plow in there, so to speak, not literally, but figuratively plow through there and get the mini in there. We'll keep you posted. And when did you say Mead was joining BLT mid-October? Mid-October, right. Okay, okay, great. I'll loop him in at that time and we can work together on it as he comes. That's great. I'll probably reach out to him as well around that time too, so. Great. Thank you, Caitlin. Okay, thanks, everyone. Yep, have a good night. There's a bunch of blights. Yeah, bye-bye. So, John, what's your thought, John, with the test? I think that we should continue to explore all options. And as Clark said, I think it's just a good practice to, you know, check things out thoroughly and, you know, the other information that it will provide us and they would be helpful. Oops, Brownie, are you all right with that? Yeah. All right, so Clark, I guess carry on. Okay. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for being here. Yeah, and the spot that I mentioned, I looked at the Vermont parcel viewer and it doesn't list the owner for that property that's across the river from you, Donnie. But, you know, and we haven't, as a committee, yet talked about whether or not to actually check in with him, but I think we probably will. It's within the radius in terms of where a system can exist, so that's good news. If the soils came back great, one of the biggest dilemmas there that would add cost to the system is either going, you know, over or under the river in order to get the pipe over there, because that's not an insignificant part of a project that would be located there. So. But, Clark, can you give us kind of a timeline going forward? Now, we have the pits. At some point, we need to pour it out to the town here. When do you see that? Well, you know, for months and months, we've been waiting on, you know, digging the test pits. And as I mentioned earlier, a lot of, you know, these are the archaeological clearing is a big deal. And it's really hard to get people to do that. So we've got, I hope that they're working on the other places at this point, too. So when those are cleared, I'm pretty sure that we can dig because we can't get reimbursed for a project that hasn't been archaeologically cleared. And so that's why we've not done it yet. So let's say that, you know, let's say at the end of October, the test pits have been done and the data's available, then we can start setting up a time for a public meeting. I was hoping that a public meeting might be able to happen sometime by, you know, before Thanksgiving, this is a couple of months ago, but that's certainly probably not the case. So I'm thinking it'll probably be, you know, wintertime, January, early February, something like that. And then certainly obviously pointing out or talking about it at town meeting as well. But in a public forum is required as a part of the zero-interest loan. So that has to happen after the 60% report from Otter Creek. Very good. Any other comments from the board? To Clark, at all, or questions? All right, Clark, people, thank you for joining us tonight. All right, thanks everybody. Nice to see you, Clark. There you go. Good night. All right, Dom, so you were going to unleash on us if I remember right. All right, okay. Just a little update about the sidewalk scoping study that our monthly meeting was at last week. So actually one of the most recent things was accomplished was an archeological study, because they have to do that for that area as well. And they didn't find anything, I mean, that's a concern within the sidewalk range through some stuff that, you know, some historic findings from like 1800s type of thing, you know. I mean, because that was one of the, from some other stuff I've read that they've gone through over there, that was one of the earlier settlements in Mointown. And I never even realized I won't get two of the weeds now, but you know, on route two, there's a cemetery there that's behind that. And there's some, you know, some really, some people who are resting there who are some of the early settlers of Mointown. So I mean, I can't roll off the names, but it was just kind of- It's early dates down there, yeah. Yeah. And then just what was going on there before the 1927 flood and what came in after the talent business that was there, you know. And anything. So they've accomplished that and they've actually, and I forwarded the most recent notes today that I got from the engineer to Sasha, I'm sure she can send them along to you or something. So they've actually started with some layout, you know, as to the sidewalk and some size and you know, what would have to be some of the items that have to be dealt with. The long and short of it is the next step is coming up will be this alternatives meeting, which they're maybe shooting for of November 6th, which would be a select board meeting night. But I, and so during the meeting, I suggested if they're wondering what the venue would be if it was actually possible and I haven't had a chance to follow up on this yet to see if there was a way to have the meeting be in that neck of the woods, so to speak, so that we could maybe get more attendance. So I have a couple of contacts in the Gallagher Acres neighborhood, so I've traded some phone calls and some was also working on the road, helping with the road safety stuff. And so, you know, I mean, obviously we can still have it here and you know, we have our zoom, people can zoom in, but they are up for that as well. I mean, maybe we could have it at the school or doesn't necessarily have to be on a select board meeting night, but it might be just as well. I just actually wanted to throw it out to what you guys thought, you know. I think it would be good to have on that date, but you know, whatever works and we'll be over there whenever we're doing that. Okay, well, at least we can, we'll have one time to at least get it out to folks. And the last time it was kind of right down on the wire when we were able to. And can you explain the alternatives meeting what that is? The alternatives is they're going to show two different, two different sidewalk sizes, basically. You know, and how it lays out to the road and the spacing. Which side of the road? And well, no, no, it can only really be on the block. Yeah, I think we figured that out early on. Yeah, it can't go on the road. It was just going to be width, the size. I mean, they had two scenarios there that we actually, Chris, yeah, that Chris Hunt and I, when we were just looking at some feedback there, they had one like 10 foot drawing of what the 10 foot impact would be because that was like a multi-purpose. And we were kind of going, well, there's way too much disruption with that scenario and it doesn't match the sidewalk that we're going to meet up with on the other side. So I think we're down to a five foot or a six foot wide with the sidewalk and what the, you know, with the grass, you know, separation. Buffer could be. Buffer's over there. All right. So that's, you know, that. Road Safety Committee, you know, we've written that letter. We've got probably about 65 signatures so far on the two letters. I brought it here tonight so my fellow board members could sign it. Maybe when we get into the sign on the road, our hope is to get like a hundred signatures. We're also going to post it on the front porch forum with a, you know, I think some of it is like, this is a little beyond my ammo. But, you know, we're going to write up a posting and then there'll be a link to the two letters and then a Google doc that people could sign. Continue with Celine again. Well, so the two, there's two letters that this Road Safety Committee, about six of us worked on John as well. And one of them deals with Route Two, basically from the landfill to Gallagher Acres to the intersection of Route 100, requesting that the speed limit around at the landfill be decreased to 40 miles an hour from 50. It's at 50 when you first turn, like from Center Road or Exit 9. Yeah. So, you know, there, it'll be slow to 40. And then when you get to Gallagher Acres, instead of being at 35, it would be 30. And as you might remember, they did lower that speed limit there from earlier when we went through the same process, but they couldn't lower any more, any lower than 35 because coming from 50, they couldn't go to 30. But we're saying in this letter, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of residential homes all along that section of Route Two. And it's pretty curvy as well. You know, and so anyways, that's the basis of that letter. Yep. It has a few other details in it. And then with the Route 100B, the main focus of it is from Stevens Brook where there's still a sign that says 50 that the speed limit was up to 40 there. And then when you get to like Stephanie Venomers or just before the curves, it would go to 35. And then 30 at Murphy Road or the Bridge, you know, start the 30 into the Village Sooner and then follow through. And then coming the other way or going this way, continue the 30 up by Camel's View Farm. Because it goes to 40, continue it to 30 and then at the intersection, before the intersection 35, and coming the other way, it would go to 35 just after the church or the crucifier where it's 40 at the present, it goes from 50 to 40. So that's really the basis of the two letters. And then just asking for like on 100B going north, you see a 50 mile an hour sign at Stevens Brook and you don't see another speed sign to you see it slow down to 35 at the dam. So requests for, you know, just some maybe some additional signage and also, you know, some pedestrian cyclist signage for all the runners and walkers and bikers that use the road. So that's essentially what the two letters are. We're, you know, we're not, we wanna, you know, see if we can get, you know, at least a hundred signatures on both of them. We have some folks working over in Gallagher's to get that group two area to get some signatures as well to show them the more traffic we need to support. And so, you know, if we get it in by late fall or something, you know, that'll be good. It's the update on that. Any questions, John, or anyone from Don on it? I think that right, John, pretty much. Yeah, that sounds good. John has a copy. He's going to, you know, different people on the committee or, you know, hidden there, different neighborhoods. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone who lives right on the road or, you know, all more town residents are affected, basically. So, I know that the speeding machine has been down on 100B. Yeah. Now, will you use the information from that? Yeah, I'm sure that I'll get forwarded on to the, oh, in this scenario, yeah, we could do that as well. But we just usually were sharing that with the sheriff's department. But when we forwarded, we could probably look at that data and see. Definitely, yeah. Great idea. Thank you. We give them some incentive to why people need to slow down. Yeah. Start getting people going in the Gallagher acre there. The same with 90B, you know. Yeah, say 100B, I mean, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, no, we have 100B, I know, but a route two as well, so. Yeah. You know, we could use that data. We could coordinate that with submitting the letter. He has the data for, you know, I think that would be something great. Yeah. More than hearsay, hearing aids, or a hearing aid. Yeah, yeah. They have the backup data. Where else are we going to get them? Okay, just a little town hall little update. One is where we're working on having an event there on 1014, Saturday, October 14th, from 47. It'll be like a small energy fair. I think Clark is going to come and have some information about the clean water, and there'll be, you know, local, some more town folks, a little local music, and local food. Some people are going to just do some food, and we're going to have information about the town hall project, and just kind of like basically an open house socializing kind of thing. On the 14th? On the 14th, yeah. And so let's see. In the revitalization, you know, in the project status, we're working towards, and I realized it last week when we approved the aim when we go ahead with the survey, that we didn't sign the person's proposal. I went over it today with Cheryl Lenebuk, but she's got to give us an COI and a W9, and hopefully she's, it's not a survey, I shouldn't be using that word. It's a topographical survey, is what you really need to establish, you know, some of the grades around the building and the water flow, you know, and the fact of how it's flooding from the way, the water comes off the bridge and off from the mill and from the others from the 100B, all that. So that's going on. And that's set to start on the 25th, which will be really good in terms of fitting into the schedule of finalizing design. And then we did get, we sent out that RFP, as I mentioned a while ago, for the construction manager approach to the project. We got back, we had three people, we sent it up to five firms. We had three people attend to walk through and one ended up getting another project and had to withdraw. So we've gotten two proposals, which we just got Friday. So we need to do a whole sort of assessing them out and comparing them in different aspects of it along with the RFP. But I just wanted to just float it out there and hopefully when we come back on the second, we'll have some like, okay, here it is, here's the nuts and bolts of the two proposals and what they propose to do. But it's gonna be in somewhere in the range of like $7,000 to do this, to proceed this way. Versus if we just finish the drawings and get a one-time estimate, that's like between three and five. So I don't know if you want me to at this point in the meeting get into like what the benefits of the construction manager are, which I can do or send a note to everybody so you can read some bullets about it. But what I wanted to ask is that, is there any way if we know we're down the road and we're applying for all these grants, these two major grants from the libraries and from Murat, is there any way that we could borrow money from, like the town could lend some of the money to go to that CM thing and then the town gets paid back once the project gets underway and we have grants and it pays back for this piece of design slash project management kind of thing. I just, I don't know. Yeah, I think that's how we're gonna look into it. Because that hasn't been done, I don't know. I was just trying to, you know. I mean, we are cranked up on another note, we have a capital campaign committee. We have two or three people working on that, that we're gonna launch probably late fall, reaching out with some different ideas to raise some money that way as well. But I just didn't know if that is ever be done or if that's a possibility or what, you know. It hasn't been done, that I recall, but since I've been working on it. I don't remember it. It doesn't include it from being done, you know. I think it's something. You mean taking from the savings reserve borrowing from it? Of course, yeah, some. Yeah, we can't do that now. There's not enough there to do that. Oh, okay. Because we've pledged that for. The raider. Yeah. Borrowing for taxes. Oh, right. For taxes, normally in taxes. Yeah. I don't know what you're saying, it's $7,000, right? Let's look at it, I would suggest that you do send out something pre-meeting if you could on the, I know we sent the RFP out, but give us a little bit of heads up on what that whole thing would do. Right, what it would do. Okay, yeah. So then that way we can come in and we can spend time doing that part and then you can sell us a whole item. Okay, great. Good enough. And then let's see, another eye I just wanted to, this is from an email that Sasha sent us that, to thank a flag man, Danny. All right, Penny Hughes. That was great that he's been able to do that, another year of flying old cool glory. Sounds great, right? That's right. And then I just wanted to, this is kind of an old chestnut, but I was thinking, because I saw it bombs into this gentleman the other day, but what, any update with Frank Piazza in the apartments? No. I spoke to Ron about a week and a half ago about that. We were going to talk with the judge at some point just to kind of give them a heads up, but we're at a standstill trying to find something that's willing to come in. I've spoken to a few different people about it and there's no one, everyone's too busy and then when they say, well, what do you need? And then you tell them and they don't want anything near it because it means litigation eventually. Is he still being fined like this? Yeah, I mean that's fine, still every day. It's being fined that's adding up and that's something that the town could just go to the court, his area wouldn't want to enforce this, basically bring him into probably bankruptcy and you know, and ended up with the thing. Not something we knew what to do. But he doesn't have to pay it yet I mean until the court mandates it or anything. Until the court mandates it, that's, and that's something that, and it really doesn't mean that until we go after the court, push them to mandate it, because that was the question I had. It's $500 in the day, no it wasn't that much, wasn't it? I can't remember what it was. I can't remember what it was, I think. It's way too much in the way, yeah. There couldn't be that, right? Because it's been like six months now or something. I think it is, yeah. Robin, that's what you remember being. That's what I remember, yeah. It's something, it's a lot. It is $500, it is $500. So, and the time, I think you, one time in your review, the town doesn't even, if that does, it's supposed to be paid. We don't need to see any of that, right? We don't get it, right. Goes to the courts, but we have to ask them to enforce their order. And we haven't done a lot of those things because what happens if we do something like that and then the property goes into whatever it is, but the people on the living there have no place to live. No, I know that. And so that's why we're walking that five line and we're how far do you push, because we could have Dick go in there and probably put the place under, have a, not be, yeah, a quarantine. And again, that would push the people out. I think Nicole, I saw her the other day at the library, told me that maybe one or two people moved out or something, but she's the, yeah. They still have the people. The taxes get paid on the place? Oh yeah, yeah, Greg told me at the last minute. Which was usually what happens when they're going to tax sale. That's what typically happens. So we will, if you're in a court, it's gonna be, I don't know, it's like a, you know, where he's pretty sure we have to be contrary to what he puts out. Yeah, no, he's sure up in the, so. Yeah, so that's, unfortunately, we have not been able to do any no teeth in the law or there could be, but again, it means. Right. By and by for the tenants. And that's what we've been trying to open to. By and by for the tenants, with all the housing and problems. Yeah. And liability for the town is what it comes down to. Yeah, what we'd like to see is one of these organizations come over and take those properties over and fix them up. Fix them up. Fix them up and be a housing. Right. And have some reasonable demand. There's so much demand to do for that right now. There's really sort of snapping up the apartments. So let's go ahead. And I'll just, my last bit, and I'll be just to maybe remind ourselves that we were gonna have some, at one point we were gonna have a brainstorm, a tri board meeting with the SB, the PC and the DRV to kind of brainstorm about legal trails. You know, and you know, just, yeah, you know, we have so many things, I know, but you know, maybe to, I don't know when we could do that or how we could pull it off, but you know. No, I would set it for an agenda or whatever, but you know. You know, and I'm gonna talk to Dave, as we're, let's all move on a little bit, planning commission just about the zoning administrator. So we're trying to figure that. So maybe during those conversations, we can figure out a time. You know, it's funny you, we want to get the boards all together on that, but like the DRV doesn't really want to be, because they're listening, they're kind of the judge of all of this. So John has, they don't want to be making the rule, right, the judge, right, the sale, it's like a referee in a football game, the same, you know, or as I thought that, it seems like a good idea because they don't want to watch if one doesn't, but as he was here one night, you saw his hesitancy to kind of work that way. So I think it'll be us in the planning, because again, they're on the planning side of things, and we can look at that, but I think it's overdue. I mean, we have, as we've talked about this housing needs, there's a lot of people going out onto the column, class four roads, trails, and I think there needs to be some kind of an update as how those are treated and how if one wants to bring up their trail or. Cause we sort of deal with it sort of on a case-by-case basis. Right, yeah, and a lot of that's because there's, doesn't seem to be no one case that's the same. I mean, it's sometimes, you know, there's something that's triggered from something else or there's some easement on it or something. So it blends itself to that, but I mean, we could get a more straightforward policy up front so that people weren't running into problems down the road, so everyone knew what the expectation is. But at least know what to expect. Exactly, so there's no kind of clarification. So that is the bad, I'll work on trying to get that. That's good. So going along with the zoning administration stuff, Sasha, do you have the job description that we've had, we've sent that along today that'll get him to what he's thinking? I spoke to Karen this morning, she actually has a candidate that she knows of that might have some interest that sounds, so she's going to, she would like that job description. So don't send it out to her yet, but send it over the day, ask her about it, and see if that's something he wants to use comes from the planning unit, so you can send it to Karen. Karen gets done next Tuesday. So there's going to be, I think six or seven things in process, and I know she's going to send you a list. Yeah, she rafed out to me, she sent me the list. She's going to give you an- Hopefully we could set aside an hour of her office time, does she meet here, is that what she does, is it an office hour? Yeah. Okay. So next Tuesday she will be here, but I would reach out sooner than later to set up a time with her. Yes, I just reviewed her email, and I said she has an office hours tomorrow. So I said tomorrow will be great, because that works out better for me the next week. So if she has time tomorrow and responds, I'm hoping to be with her for an hour tomorrow, kind of go over the little list. I mean, I know the general process because I've applied for permits and things like that, but I don't know the final details about grades, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So she's- I didn't realize that you're going to step in for a little while. I'm not necessarily stepping in, I'm going to lose to become abreast with, I am the liaison to that department, so I do want to step in and at least have some kind of general idea of the workflow. So she's going to send a letter out. Okay. And so we will have you as that contact person. Okay. Because all these people again, they don't want to, as you have things in your life, you don't want to be lost in the process, right? Of course. So these people, if they have questions, concerns, they're going to have your contact information. Okay. To reach out to you and it'll be your responsibility to, if you get something, let Sasha know, let me know what are these questions. We're not going to be giving any authority at this point to do permits. To do the permits, but at least we can keep them- DRV decisions come down, we can- Right. Or you can follow things where things are just supposed to be followed up. Okay. A lot of it's people kind of over things. All right, this is what you- Okay. That she asked and you start seeing that stuff and then something that we can do together as a board or a few of us- Okay. Make sure everything's included because there are certain limits and statutes that it was days to have this stuff completed if everything is completed the way it should be. So- Okay, well that's my intent on that. So be on the lookout for that stuff. Okay. Thank you very much. And thank you. And just to follow-ups, I did- Last time we had, Mr. Barr that had come in, I don't know if you were here, but they had the issues with the permits. So they're gonna be in front of the DRV next week. Good. She was a- He reached out, I reached out to him personally. No, no, I was here for the R.A. couple. I reached out to Barr's personally, just spoke with my own personal attorney and I make that recommendation basically that they proceed with the DRV, which is apparently what they're- Well, so be careful of him. I just told him it was my personal opinion about the decision. She is, and she might not have to allow them to go to the DRV because the problem is they did not, she asked for a couple of documents that was very clear and they're just not providing them. Yeah, I just basically told them that in light of her, you know, resigning that I recommend that they basically bring whatever they had to the DRV. Right, and that would be the, that's the normal process if they go. They go through the zoning administrator and to be sure that everything is there. So she's allowing them to go to the DRV. And at the DRV, they can request a variance in not providing these documents. So we'll be up to the DRV whether they allow it or not, which I would imagine they will not because they're very simple documents. One is a, because it's being built on a slope, they need an elevation. I made no recommendations other than that Karen was resigning and I thought just if they wanted to proceed, it would be in their best interest to try to, you know, proceed with the DRV. They're very fair and they would give them whatever information that they were needed, you know. And again, that's the whole process, but. My impression was that it was, yes, they were just kind of at odds with her and they just didn't want to provide something that seemed to me to be fairly simple, so. Anyways, that's where that is kind of. Sasha, thank you. I asked Sasha to reach out to the state on our sidewalks out here, or the sidewalk out here. There's lots of dirt and debris kind of up against the sidewalk and growing under. And also the grates were a little bit filled up the air and it just wasn't draining. Sasha, and you had a response from, was it Michelle? Yeah. All right, so let's make sure we follow up on that. Oh, something along that line of the state is that I've been wanting to just tell Martin about it. I mean, I've never had that much luck going down to the state garage of an issue or something like that. Yeah, it's your point of the line there. But here, between the two Hurdle Road entrances on 100B, there's a washout that, I don't know if anybody knows about it. I see it when I've been biking, but it basically goes back into July when we've had all the rain and stuff. But it's not good, you know, so I don't know. So that's something that she decided on? It's on the river side. And it's getting bigger, you know? And my fear is that it's just underneath, someone's gonna fall in there. That's right, sure. You know they will eventually. Yeah, I know, I mean, it's not a good idea. She didn't get any indication of who, because I agree with Don, I've been down the garage a couple times and they don't seem to respond to any of our requests. Yeah, I mean, I try to go in and just like, hey, I want to more town select what I noticed such and such on the road and they go, oh, okay, you know, right. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a good idea because they don't have a sense of, well, they don't see it much, you know. Yeah, I mean, like this stuff that's hanging out, I mean, but if you go into the middle sex, you know, the stop site is next to the reach and things like that, it's the same way the intersection leads. They're full of dirt up against the, there's things growing, it's been that way for years and the guy that oversees that lives right there. You know, so there's no sense of pride how things look, you know, it's too bad. They could do a little bit more, but. Yeah, thank you, Sausage. Probably so far it's there. I've been seeing it for the last couple of weeks going. Right, yeah. So we get the Zaring board. Also, like the more fest, I'm gonna say that was about done, that hot. I wouldn't have any time, Robin, we could see you there eating cookies and all. Now I miss your cookies. No, I was not able to attend to having some. I ate it. John ate plenty of cookies for us all. I ate it, I ate a lot of cookies. Excellent. So they're coming in, it's becoming bigger and bigger. So they're coming in to get a little bit of groundwork from our board. They're gonna bring some guidelines because they had a lot of interest, vendor interest and just so there's some in case people move on and then they have some guidelines and just how it sounds for work or how it should work. Yeah, it's a great thing. It really is. Yeah, it seems like it really is. Yeah, really sad. I mean, I wasn't able to attend. I mean, you see, I mean, I had to wipe the shoes with that. Kids, I mean, I've never seen so many kids in my life that we had. I know, you know, you got the families in town, you talked to them and they were, you know, most of these people were from Mortale. Yeah, they were mostly from, I was me going around, yeah, it's true. I know you read all this stuff about that for a lot of old people, you know, but, you know, there are, it seems, you know, there are, it seems like there's lots of young people moving in from on it. I mean, I guess the statistics and the numbers don't prove it out yet, but. Yeah. Well, I personally know some of the couples that have moved to Mortale just recently from, you know, deaf youths and music and stuff like that. I mean, it's, you can't afford to live in different county or, you know, yeah, they're coming in for the same reason we did. That's why, well dear, it was St. Albans for 300,000 or more town for a hundred. It was a pretty easy decision. Hopefully we can. He's been here for a while. Yeah. In the good old days. Wow, 25 years now. But I own the 60 acres I built on, so that was a big, that was a big selling point, I should say. Well, it's important that we continue to make it affordable for young families. That's what we try to work this out with what we do here. So, I guess that's all I had as far as announcements and stuff. Let me just go down on old business and then well, actually before we do that, let's approve the select word minutes from the 5th of September. Yeah, the only change is how do you want to work the motion for the, his event? The proceeds necessary to sponsor your event. Yeah. But for that in the topographical survey. That's page two, the first paragraph of page two. So it's 2,500 to the 4,000 Merb Grant towards the survey and a portion of the remainder for the 10, 14 families, how else you word it. Yeah, then there'll still be some other funds that we do. Sasha, you were able to get that. John, did you have any changes? Yes, on the road safety layers. I mean, one ladder was for route two, the other was for 100B. And that's mainly for lowering speed limits. And it wasn't anything under our dirt roads. Okay. Was that in there on the minutes, John? Yeah, it mentioned. Oh, it says a letter of direction to speed on dirt roads. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's later, we'll be working on that. Right, but just dropping the speed on that. All right, some changes. So is there a motion to approve? I make a motion to approve the minutes with the change of that one. Second. John seconds. Thank you, John. All the paperwork, all right. All right. And let me, you didn't get to me on the reports, the communications. I'm sorry, John. Yeah. That's okay. Guy Martin called and, Who did he say? I don't know. Guy Martin. A week, 10 days ago. Congratulations to me. I guess according to Charlene, he's quite upset because he's waited so long to get into his property. He needs some work done to his camp. Now, I believe Martin said in October, he would be looking at cutting the trees. But I definitely think that we've held off so long. We've got to do something to make sure that guy can get in there. Right. I mean, well, first of all, it's the trail is there so he can go anytime he wants. Well, I think it has to do with getting vehicles up there, especially if he's got to get people up there to work on his place. But let me talk to Martin about a Martin camera. About it when he can have a clearer view of when that can happen, John. Okay. That would be good. And guy doesn't seem to think that it's a whole mark anyway. I'm sorry? I'm sorry? Guy doesn't seem to think that it's marked. But I believe it is. I mean, I told him, or I told Cheryl Lynn that as far as we knew, it had been marked. Yeah. So we had him marked, in fact, I think both sides of it from where the pins were so that we knew, I think it was a lot of the back and look at the agreement, but it was a two rod yard, two or three yards. But we can look and that's. Right. What it is, but yeah, it should be marked. I mean, that's what the survey was for when we spent a lot of money on the surveys. So, you know, we'll go with, I think it would probably be wise to, you know, a couple of us, probably me and John, we walked that enough. We should probably go over with Martin when they start the cutting to make sure that they're doing it and doing it for the survey. So we don't have any problems. Right. That sounds good. Okay. Next thing is Chris Costello at Morfest. He came up to me and he expressed concern the junction of Moortown Mountain Road and Moortown Common Road. The way that the logs are piled there. He said that he's almost got into an accident. Somebody who came down Moortown Common Road and didn't really yield properly. And so bottom line, he almost hit this person. And so the visibility isn't very good there. And then pretty much that yield sign was there. We put that there years and years ago, even before any stop signs were there. So we might want to consider replacing that with a stop sign. All right. What's the, or how do we go about doing that if we want to do that? So it's some kind of a. Good. We can put a stop sign wherever we want it. All right. So there's no statutes as we need to warn it or test it or you don't have to kind of like. Yeah. So that's probably a good idea. Yeah. We don't have a yield sign anywhere else in chat. So I mean, I think it just makes sense to have a stop sign there. Those logs, they in the right away at all? Or is he? No, no, they're not. And I mean, I've come down, when I come down Moortown Common Road, I don't see it as an issue. But I guess it's, I mean, I think there's a double issue and the main issue probably is people not yielding, you know, or trying to cut out in front of somebody coming down Moortown Common Road. But I think having a stop sign just makes more sense. All right. I'll mention that tomorrow to have one ordered. We've had one at the end of Jones Brook Road that's coming down over the years. Well, it just takes it out because it's gone again now. Oh, no, really? People love a stop sign in their park with a couple over there. Oh, a lot of people do, they still sign. Yeah. Like Devil's Washbowl, that sign. It's still on all the time. Johnny. No, Dale doesn't have any logs in the right of where anything. They're well back. Right. Yeah, it's just, all right. And that's all I had. And that's all you have, John. Well, that's a lot, but we appreciate it. Glad you're doing well and could join us tonight. Oh, thanks. Okay, we have some old business, we've touched on a lot of the things, I think, that are down there or anything that we can do tonight. Unless there's anything that anyone has that's new. Or you know what? I had a question, I was reading the minutes where there was this at the time. This was last time. Don, you had stopped to the people with the park. Well, I did, I was just bringing that up. Right. And then it said they may come in. Yeah. How'd that go? It went well, I tried to tell them, they, I said, you know, it's a concern for your neighbors and people coming off the Pony Farm Road and the select board is concerned about it. And then they told me, as I mentioned that night, and then John told me what the fact that they had met with the sheriff and the sheriff said that they were okay where they were. But then in the meeting last week or two weeks ago, John mentioned, well, no, they are, they're in the right of way. So we decided at that meeting that we would have them come to a meeting so we could talk to them. And I, you know, I haven't seen them to tell them to come. I did mention that we'd like them to come because they'd like to ask us about the streetlight that's right there beaming on their house. So I said, well, we could talk about that too if you commit. Sure. So I don't know if we reach out to them through Sasha sending a note or calling them or I've just been trying to drop in again. Yeah, no, we should have them. But we also, and I remember last fall, something, I don't know if I was here or something with the sheriff. The sheriff had mentioned something about being okay. I just don't see where that's okay at all. So should we get clarification from the sheriff about what he was thinking there? Or John, do you remember that conversation? Were you involved in that? Yes, I mean. He said as long as you stayed on the house side of their mailbox, you know, I mean, which is ridiculous. It's still in the roadway. So, but we probably, when the last letter we sent out to them, I believe we did mention that that, you know, even though the sheriff said that that it's in the right of way, and especially in the winter, how dangerous it is. Yeah, I mean, let's have them in and talk about it. Yeah, I think that's the best way, yeah, just ask them to come in, you know, don't, you know, I think in the letters we've suggested they could, but I mean, I think it's pilot they do. So, I mean, we can't force them to it. Yeah, either send them another letter or just, why don't we, Sasha, if we know who it is, if we could send them a letter to one of the next meetings coming up, give them a couple of options, time, and dates, and tell them they'd like to discuss it if they choose not to, and then we'll just send a registered letter that would enforce, you know, safety. Yeah, when I spoke to them, I think they'll come in. Good, yeah, I mean, I was actually, when I biked by there yesterday, because I was looking to see if they were there, I was hoping they could even come tonight or something, you know, a public comment. And I was kind of looking, it seems like with a little bit of work, I mean, there's some rocks that have to be removed, but it looks like it was a built up sort of area right there that they could utilize to get over more, but doesn't seem, you know, I mean, I haven't walked it or anything, I'm just looking at it as I'm just stopped waiting to go out and I'm just wondering if that could be a solution that they could get in a little bit to their land right there. Yeah, I mean, it's all, again, it's all in the safety and we've not seen it, I mean, they're, you know, God forbid some of you're heard, but then it'll be resting on them, you know, and it would be inexpensive for them, and also. And I'll also look to see if I see them when I, you know, would you even put their names on it? I don't think, no, he told me his name, but I could do it. All right. But, sorry, Sasha, I said information must be sent to letters out, so. Yeah, so we can go ahead and do that. Other than that, I think we're good here as any other, there any new business that anyone has. All right, so we just have some awards to approve and sign. Just make sure you all get your vaccines. There's three of them you have to get, you know. And you can get them all at once. What'd you say, three? The other one. Yeah, RSV. The regular flu, COVID, and RSV. RSV, one million. Is that what you have, RSV, or do you have it? No, I had RSV in December. Oh, yeah, I just, I can call it. Oh, okay. Oh, so I wonder, the last time I spoke to Martin, the Mac, I don't know if you know, the Mac truck blew another head gas, or another head, so it's back in the shop. What's that? Oh, he had a hand-me-knowledge back there. Say again? He's on the bathroom. Yeah. He's on the bathroom, yeah. Oh, that's too bad. So, he's talking to the rep, because, I mean, we're losing, you know, or he's losing a lot of time, you know, this is a time in the back and forth. I'll drive it in the back and forth, but we don't have nothing to use for it. We're actually lucky. And it's not winter. And it's not winter, and we have three trucks, and so it's, but any word on the, when the grader's coming yet, or not yet? Nothing, no. I think stuff on, they've been tracking it though. It's a track coming from Brazil or something. What? Who's that? No. Yeah. You know, it was being, you know, close to the camera. Is that, really, is that possible? No, I mean, some components are coming. No, no, no. I mean, like, all the components were sent to the Brazil and assembled there. It's wild. Sure is. I was wondering how they could make anybody ship in a dustpan from China, too. China, too. But you were where they all come from. John, I think, or maybe you have more information than I did, but I was following through the easements after you left, got into the shems. The engineers were working on it. Ray had it back. So I, I'm assuming he was getting it signed. Yeah. Sasha, have you heard anything? Yeah. Sorry, sorry about that. I forgot to mention that. So, yes. So as far as we know, everything, all the changes were made. So I believe it's, it's back with Howland. And I think he's probably having his lawyer just look at it and make sure that everything's okay. Make sure we made the changes that they were all right. Yeah. But the work looks real good, you know, would they put the evaporating ponds in or anything? Gotta do it in a strong way. Rubble wet lens. Yeah. If you need anything, Lenny. I think we've got everything signed. John, thank you. Coming, Don, you all set? Okay. No, I'm just getting the latter here. All right, I move to adjourn. I second. Second. All in favor of what I. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Have a good night. Yeah. I don't know.