 The hashtag is the stand on Twitter. The stand KE on Twitter at Ram Aguko at Y254 channel. We are live on our website at Y254.co.ke. That is www.Y254.co.ke. We are live also on Facebook. Make sure that you hear us up as we continue with this conversation tonight. We are with Honorable Milio Dambo and Honorable David Sankok. What do you think about the stand in regards to the legislation in the country? Thank you. You've given your stand and that was quite intriguing. You have an A of which there are many Kenyans who may agree with you. Many may not agree with you. You've said quite a lot even in regards to the legislative roles that you've made. But let me start with what happened yesterday. Quite a very interesting turn of events where we had the president of the Los Society of Kenya who said this and I quote, we officially declare this house as belonging to the people of Kenya. Anybody who comes here as a parliamentarian will be a trespasser. How I want to see Halali kutokaleo. Let me pick it up from there. Do you agree with that? I don't agree. What is your position in regards to that? Considering that they are addressing you specifically. I respectfully don't agree with the chair of the president of the Los Society of Kenya and the reason I don't agree with him even though I agree actually I agreed with the chief justice or his advisory but I don't agree with president have his position because the constitution is very clear that even where the chief justice asks the president to dissolve parliament until the president does that then the parliament is actually still legal. What he is doing can only come into effect once the president declares parliament dissolve. Then in that case he can come and anybody finds he can actually lawfully evict he can use every means citizens arrest he can use the courts he can ask the police to evict us after the president declares before the president dissolves parliament parliament is still properly constituted. So he did not jump the gun with what he did yesterday? He did jump the gun because he was coming in you know the constitution is very clear there are people who went to court and said the parliament has refused to enact laws and if parliament refuses to enact law the constitution of processes for ensuring that parliament then should do their work and we are the ones who passed that constitution that says that somebody will then petition the chief justice the chief justice will advise the president and the president shall dissolve parliament but there was no time frame that was given to the president of course it is presumed that he will use his discretion in a reasonable manner which means that he ordinarily should dissolve parliament within a reasonable time but even if it doesn't really the constitution doesn't provide a time frame I think the time frame was so he is actually jumping the gun the constitution does not provide a time frame it does not provide No when the president of LSK says that parliament is legitimate how does it come to you? you know Ram, we have three arms of government and parliament is one arm of government there is a process in which parliament can be dissolved which was started by the president of the Supreme Court that is Chief Justice Maraga he started but I think then LSK chairman I think these names that we give to these people excite their emotions when you give somebody a name of a president then he may have thought that probably he also have the powers of the real president which he does not have it is the president that have the power to dissolve parliament as my colleague have said that there is no time frame and I perfectly agree with what Maraga said because parliament should actually be dissolved it have lost focus both in this role and we have failed to pass the two-third gender rule which is a requirement so for me I agree with the Chief Justice but what the president of LSK was doing was just probably to get some headlines and as you have seen he just came he was offered tea considering the region in which he come from he really loved tea and he did take and he went back and I thought even our president who is actually the speaker of the National Assembly that is the head of the arm of government called parliament he is a very intelligent fellow and I don't know even next time when the president of law society of Kenya will be amasai when then they want to take parliament they will take parliament or milk or music of which many people ridiculed LSK for that they were saying they were going to occupy parliament but again they found themselves I don't know if it is right to say they found themselves or they made their way into the kitchen of which LSK said that it wasn't meant to be something that was meant to cause chaos let's take a look at what he said look at this we have told the clock of the National Assembly that effective today parliament is illegitimate any person who until today was an elected member of the National Assembly or the Senate has seized being an elected member he or she is a trespasser the majority view of the people of Kenya is that parliament has failed in its obligations there is rampant corruption there is nepotism there is cronism there is no development and we are not limiting our struggle to the two third gender rule there are many other reasons as to why parliament must go home it has failed to oversight the executive it has failed who the president accountable parliament and the attorney general are buying time through the court process or they have ensured that the court process will deliver an outcome favorable to them but more importantly Kenyans must understand the decision by the chief justice is one that cannot be challenged in a court of law just as none of us can take the president of the republic of Kenya to court because of a and he said that there are so many reasons why parliament should be dissolved one of them is that majority of Kenyans what did he used to measure the views of majority of Kenyans these are people who are dili elected by Kenyans and I think in their knowledge they knew why they elected them and the other thing I think taking parliament by force is like treason that is a reasonable word of hands and I don't know maybe we will revisit that one later on but now parliament has had a lot of let's say failure when it comes to the 2-3 general I remember so many bills on the 2-3 general have been brought on the floor of the house at some point you even said in one of a conference you said that it looked fashionable those are your words fashionable to bring bills on 2-3 general and maybe at some point you will bring yours you are one of the 27 members of parliament who sat at the parliamentary select committee and at this point what would be your call to action about these 2-3 general because now it is the reason why parliament is where it is right now I'm an adherent to the rule of law principle and I remember even before the justice maraga made this advisory I was talking at a conference of the law society of Kenya and people were asking me blaming parliament and I said no parliament has actually spoken on the issue of 2-3 because when you speak it doesn't always have to be in the positive it can be by affirming what people want or refusing and in my view parliament actually failed and thereby refused to pass the 2-3 general and because of that anybody who wanted to move to the next step and indeed some people moved to the next step they went to court court has given a lot of directions to parliament and we have failed to hit the court and under the constitution then somebody could actually petition the chief justice which somebody did so once it went to the chief justice it's no longer we are no longer a sister of the matter we actually say that we our hands I don't want to use tafliko language but we really are the matter is actually out of our hands so it goes now to the hands of the chief I mean not the chief justice but to the president the person who now has any role is the president and the president, the attorney general has actually gone to court meaning the president is not agreed with the chief justice I have not actually looked at the grounds of the petition but perhaps the president is saying that maybe the other mechanisms that have not been exhausted and all that so I wouldn't say that there is something parliament has definitely spoken and they are saying they don't want to pass the 2-3 general but in terms of there is an issue that we had also raised earlier on about parliament in general about what have we been saying we are looking beyond the 2-3 general as saying parliament has failed in its oversight role has failed in different aspects and I want to say that when I started actually say that this parliament is going to it's the parliament perhaps since independence that will only serve probably two and a half years when others have served five times why am I saying that we know usually that last year a companion so hardly anything happens we missed one year because of coronavirus that's two years gone we missed the first year's post-election violence that's three years gone so this is a parliament that only serves two years and it has been two years that it's also wrought with challenges the first year it was wrought with challenges of Nasa versus Jubilee last year it is wrought with other different challenges intra-party and inter-party politics so there is intra-party jubilee politics and inter-party which is jubilee jubilee versus other parties so there is even a lot more confusion now than there was and parliament is there for doing work in the midst of all these challenges and I would want to agree with Sankok that within that with all that in mind we have done relatively well we were still able to legislate we are still able to oversight like today if you actually were in parliament today the public investment committee has passed a report that is indicting the CEO of CAPS that is actually calling for very severe action against CEO of CAPS and it was cross-party line I'm looking at what the speaker of the house said just in Muturi he said that the commission regrets that the chief justice appears to be willing even eager to plan the country into a constitutional crisis without exercising the wisdom and circumspension that is expected of the high office he holds he said parliament should not be used as a punching bag and that it was unrealistic to call for its dissolution for failing to enact the agenda law would you agree with that? I agree with the speaker 100% it was unrealistic it was unrealistic just based on to that gender rule because there are a lot of laws that were supposed to be passed to align it with the constitution which have really done and it is not only the gender rule that we have not passed as parliament there are the article 100 there are so many other rules that we may not have really aligned with the constitution having said that let me tell you Ram that the chief justice just wanted probably headlines and did not really try to in law we also balance the chief justice yes the chief justice but why agree with him on the dissolution of parliament not because of the truth that gender rule but because as a house we have actually lost direction in the old constitution the president was actually an elected member of parliament and the opposition leader was an elected member of parliament the president sitting in parliament to defend government business in parliament and the opposition leader sitting in parliament to defend the citizens of this country and to keep the government on top they are both represented by the majority leader and minority leader respectively now majority leader is doing his job of defending the government businesses and bringing the government agenda into the house the minority leader have joined him to defend the government and to lobby for the government businesses in the house now who will defend the citizen of this country that is why in the house about the role of the majority leader about whether it is attached to the party at which the majority leader comes from it is totally attached because he represent the president who was opposed in their other constitution to be a sitting member of parliament but now because he is not sitting there must be somebody who will defend the government defend the manifesto of the ruling party and bring government agenda into the house but then I wonder but now both of them the minority leader and the majority leader are defending the government so who will be defending the citizen of the country and how can the citizens of this nation trust legislators who have failed to pass the 2,000 gender rule over so many years no no no we know why we have failed to pass the 2,000 gender rule and if I can just say why is that because we have said the 2,000 3rd gender rule if they have to be gender top up let us know the composition of this particular gender top up how many women with disability will be there how many women who are youth will be there what is the percentage of women who are from rural areas will be there that is what we said and personally I opposed the 2,000 gender rule on the basis that I need first of all a formula of the composition of those who will be before I get into is issue about a formula of whether there are rural women or non-rural women which I think is actually a fallacy because nobody asks for rural men or maybe men with disability I would understand but nobody really asks men whether they are rural or not like I don't know whether my friends and kukis rural or urban because nobody really nobody really I am from rural I am from urban we don't elect from rural but anyway let me get back to the other issue that actually is alluded to and I think I would just want to set the record straight that when a government is elected the government is elected to represent the interests of the citizens so it's not the opposition that represents the interests of the citizens unlike what my good friend here who is my number 2 he is a quick learner that's why he is my number 2 but I can see he still has a lot of gachap to do and what I can say is that when the government when any party is campaigning they campaign on a party manifesto and what they are basically doing is they are telling the Kenyans that when you elect us we are going to do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and who was the package the package was a president and deputy president and both the president and deputy president promised Kenyans that when you elect us we are going to do 1, 2, 3, 4 now there is a possibility to have a working arrangement even with the party that is a minority party because we no longer have a position but we have a minority party in the house and in special circumstances in a country that can actually happen when I came in on the 10th parliament we had special circumstances and we formed a coalition government out of necessity to push the country forward in the same manner this parliament or this situation could be equated to what we had in the 10th parliament where there was a coalition of the unwilling because you will have the coalition of the willing but that was a coalition of the unwilling to forge the country forward unfortunately when the president tried to move the country forward instead my good friend and his colleagues just bolted out of their own party and they are doing a very good job of opposition so we can't all be opposing and where they shouldn't even be opposing they should actually be over-citing but instead of over-citing now they should be in government they forgot they are all in government instead they are not even over-citing they are opposing when we don't have opposition we have over-citing role they should be doing over-citing role so what I would want to encourage my brother Ole Sankog is that one support the presidency that you brought in place and don't oppose the presidency that you brought in place and when we have a common agenda which is to bring the country or forge the country to forge your head they should actually be happy because when you have peace when you have peace in the country it actually enables the sitting government to work very well without tear gas not having peace to strangle the citizen you know you put it very well that the government in place was elected on the basis of the manifesto majority of Kenyans the Nasa manifesto and the Jubilee manifesto they said we go as per the Jubilee manifesto the majority elected the Jubilee so we have a manifesto now if we are implementing as the Jubilee and the ruling party the manifesto who will put us on check and balance who will represent the citizen and say no this is what we promise this is not what we promise but now at the same time but we are not elected we are not representing the citizen no who are you representing you are elected the government that is elected is elected to represent the citizen Mili is now arguing he is arguing on the point of you know they are now the one who are measuring our loyalty to the president we are very loyal to our president no we are not measuring loyalty but we are not measuring loyalty we are fulfilling the big four agenda but you know for the sake of everything there must be check and balance we are aware that you have been discharged you have been discharged from the national coalition and equality and equal opportunities what you feel about that no of course I was discharged procedurally it was followed the procedure was followed because it is according to I was standing order 176.2 it is the nominating party that will place a member discharged a member from a committee probably they thought better off in another committee than the committee that I was in and by the way I only serve in that committee for 2 months 14 days that is a world record the shortest ever serving member of parliament a parliamentary select committee so I am proud of my record I have set a world record I have no problem I have no issue with it and being discharged from that committee that there is issues with the party somebody else will put more effort in that particular committee I am in the committee of labor and labor and social welfare the ministry of labor oversight the national council for persons with disability the people will agree so in others you have no problem with the decision made by the jibili party it was done in the right manner in the right manner to follow the law I accepted and I said thank you because that was the order given by the ruling party leader what about the order given by the ruling party leader not to continue campaigning till the right time you know let me tell you sometimes as members of parliament and as leaders we have also say in whatever decision that is being made in this country even I am told not to politics what am I supposed to do if I tell you today what you are going to do you can be a doctor what you are going to do I am in Monasiasa and I have been in Monasiasa for 5 years I love to do politics you can't help yourself let's take this break we'll be back in a bit remember the hashtag is the stand KE he says that come away in Monasiasa that is what you are supposed to be doing someone tells you what to do what you are not to do what you are supposed to do what am I supposed to do can you stop it the hashtag is the stand KE at ramaguko at Y254 channel remember we are live let's take this break we'll be back in a bit