 Welcome back to the breakfast and plus see the Africa time for us to head straight to our second conversation now we'll be looking at the federal government's call saying it did not nullify Iqoyi's registry weddings now and if you have been following the news yesterday a federal court a federal high court sitting in Ligas had declared that all weddings that were conducted in Iqoyi where noil and void illegal as a federal government does not have what it takes to conduct all of this wedding so there's been a lot of back and forth and we will be speaking with Barista Ayo to help us understand uh what who should conduct a wedding uh who under whose preview should weddings uh be conducted in Nigeria it's good to have you join us Barista Ayo good morning once again it's a player my name is Ayo I'm a legal practitioner I'm also secretary it's just a back home thank you so much a player to be it's all right so let's head straight to the conversation and uh what are your thoughts on this uh the federal government has come out to say that the court it did not say that courts uh it did not nullify the Koyi registry weddings what are your thoughts on that now prior to this time you also had the fact that federal high court in Ligas had declared that it was unconstitutional for the federal government to conduct these weddings we need to get on the first street now the decision you are referring to was the judgment of the federal court in the matter of um it was a local government versus minister of interior the Koyi registry and and other defendants and in that decision the court uh set down a position of law that it is the it was a local government registry that is is um uh have the legal capacity to to conduct um marriages under the law within it was a local government now we're also seeing the reaction of the uh ministry of interior but through is its permanent secretary and I've carefully read through the press table now these press statements refer to three other cases that are similar to these uh latest decision they refer to the case of one Prince Astro and it was a local government versus a minister of interior and the Koyi registry which is almost the same plaintiffs the same defenders now let's move forward the other case is the case of who is a legal practitioner versus a local government registry and other defendants in our matter now according to the press statement of the minister of interior these uh did uh did are two different decisions uh in those three different cases one or one of one court of the same federal court uh the addiction said well it's just a local government registry of local government history of the power and other decision they said no it's the federal registry that has a capacity now the question is that what is the law now under the matrimonial uh the order the marriage acts what is called a marriage order the law is uh in different forms can be marriage as long as the marriage is is heard in the registry of uh the license by the minister of interior now those registry includes not only the federal registry but also the local government petition now what that is the law but the interpretation of that law or that marriage act is not taking different forms and that's why uh you saw the two different decisions in that same federal high court now what's yours the minister of interior that has come out the statement saying no that that that decision itself contradicts another decision of the same federal high court but of two different judges is to appeal the decision so that possibly the court of appeal can pronounce clearly on this uh uh not the provision of the law we're expecting that for the minister of interior if they have been so so so of the view that uh uh that decision is wrong that the issue is safe it's counter is a permission to an earlier decision they will need to go upstairs to the court of appeal but to raise the issue as I've said under the marriage act the the question is that the the the marriage act puts the question of licensing of registries even licensing of uh minister of ministers i mean these uh church ministers or islamic ministers that are conduct manager that the heart in the hands of the minister of interior so it's an issue of law that we want the minister of interior to take upstairs the court of appeal even up to the supreme court so i the court can arrest this issue once and for all all right barista ademily from all that you have said now let me try and really get a clearer understanding you know so specifically who is empowered by law to you know to make out to you know to organize weddings as it's where you know is it the federal government or the local government that's on the one hand then again so what happened since the court is now saying that uh these are marriages or those weddings that have been conducted by the registries and non-unvoiced are they saying that these people are not legally married what is the situation right now the clear position is straightforward as i said the marriage act you can marry uh under the marriage act or without under the without the marriage act now the wedding the weddings have been conducted thus far by the kohiri federal registry is conducted under the unsatisfactory issue there barista ademily are you still with us all right we'll try and reconnect with barista are you at the mill with him to have lost him there because mister i really need to get some sort of clear understanding because there are lots of you know reactions concerning this particular issue a lot of couples you know are saying that so is it like we are not legally married we have to go through the process again to get another certificate what happens to the ones that we had even those that just got married there a few months ago well i from all that he said it feels like the marriage act has not stipulated just like with you know our constitution generally and some other acts you still have some gray areas there are lacunas where there is no clear court definition of as to who should or who should not because it feels like you know the local government also has a role to play licensing you also have the fact that the federal government he has a role to play via the ministry of interior and worth her view so that there seem to be that back and forth but this is you know if we have all of this act the question would be when was this act instituted or when when did he become you know a law and don't we think it's time that we begin to review it for all of this judgment because i remember like he rightly mentioned you know that particular back and forth in 2017 there was also an argument where between who should whether the federal government or not and the federal government is saying oh we also do have a right according to the constitution via the ministry of interior and that's why he's constantly made reference to that also and you know the local government in its own sense just as he's mentioned also have a role of saying okay issuing of license and all of that but you know it brings us back to the fact that we need to begin to review some of this acts that we have maybe it's time that we review the marriage act and maybe it's time that also we begin to review some part of our constitution if not all entirely so that we can begin to have definite because as it is now there is no specific there's no clear court definition as to who is responsible for conducting or not conducting the wedding all right we understand that we have embarrassed that are you at the middle let's get back to the conversation but before we left off i was trying to understand what happens right now with those who are married yeah go ahead so i was saying that under the marriage acts the minister of interior is the one empowered to license those who can conduct marriages under the hat so who are who can be licensed by the minister of interior number one registrar of the federal registry such as the koryu registry the popular koryu registry then two different church ministers can be licensed by the minister of interior so we are trying to scope people beyond it's not the case of federal government versus federal government they're no government registries they are also licensed by the minister of interior but the entire licensing is subjected to the minister of interior now the the relief of that for a layman's understanding the federal government of Nigeria has the overall control on marriages under the hat my virtue of that the local government registries are subjected to the licensing of the minister of interior i think that's that's that's makes it clearer no okay can you take the second again the letter again you talked about the local government uh what did you say about the local government the marriages under the hat adopted by the registries of the local government as so i can't say of the minister of interior uh i hope you understand that i play the foundation of the father the minister of interior is the overall um pricing and officer empowered by that hat to issue licenses for the purpose of conducting my appeal to uh a lot of marriages under the hat so the overall power is in the minister of interior who is an agent of federal government of Nigeria so so what the courts have been trying to decide or what the local government is trying to decide in that in a particular local government let's say it's just a local government man who is the licensed person should conduct marriage this under the hat that the question unlike other parts of Nigeria that particular local government they just a local government used to have all the federal capacity of Nigeria before before that so that's why you have the coincidence of having a federal registry with the local government registry so what has not been said to you is where you have the federal registry and the local government registry who should conduct marriage uh by this under the hat ordinarily by my own interpretation of that both of them even the federal registry has a the overall power in that regard but for a top of law that has not decided just yet to be that uh in that particular station uh it is local marriage registry then who needs an higher court to depend on otherwise at this level that's all what i'm saying okay so go ahead machine all right so um don't you think that we have gotten to a point where we need to have some specific uh maybe it's time that we begin to review the marriage act so we know who entirely because it feels like you know the federal government i mean the federal registry and the local registry still have to walk in handing you know they still have one or two rows to play in conducting marriages in Nigeria as it is so is it not time that we have some specific so we don't have all of this back and forth and judgment coming through place in K.P. in Masarawasti where they don't have the federal registry won't you marry the marriage under the hat will be conducted by local government what i think is uh the at the center of this dispute yeah we should have no dispute with me in law in itself is the fact that possibly it's prepared the a lot of people patronize the federal registry in Ethiopia again uh more than the local registry so we we both of them should enjoy that concurrent power giving the interpretation of that act well you know uh many people who patronize the higher are office which is the federal registry and you know the unipodigmatic purposes of obtaining a visa and all those kinds so it should not be the case that there should be a controversy in the first this past so after the amendment of the marriage act of course that is welcome so that is clear and all those are not those things okay i while we wait you know maybe for another higher court you know to overturn or to uphold and this particular issue now because from what we know the federal um uh high court has actually um or that the closure of all federal marriage registries opened by the ministry including that of um the koi marriage registry with immediate effect so what happens because i asked a question specifically i didn't quite get the answer i was looking for what happened with the certificates already issued right now are they invalid are just people not so certified as they need to approach their lawyers to say for instance they don't want to appeal that decision because if you're going by that mission of that court say all those are these and even if i don't know when you provide this kind of money to update those certificates time to follow the act and all those things as they put a lot of things to do after this if you don't appeal that kind of decision i think that would be next um thinking it should be the advice given to the lawyers right now and if people say if people ask our consular democracy if that mission if that matter goes off to the court of appeal and even to the supreme court so that the issue is made to rest once after all so so right now all parties supposed to stay proceeding so what exactly happens for instance going back to the issue of that court he says the all the marriages conducted by the historical history are modified and that um they don't have the power to conduct marriages in the dialogue with governments and blah blah blah so for now that decision stays on the acceptance of appeal and then you all the sense here that uh orders of the court of appeal played on the matter okay but um just before we introduce uh olada to hasan uh to join the conversation but don't you think that yes uh just like you have mentioned so don't you think that this is actually contradictory you're saying that you know the federal registry of course through um uh the minister of interior that do have a role to play in licensing and conducting of marriage and so um the court's judgment saying that you know all marriages conducted it's illegal making i mean make pushing an argument that you know federal the federal government or the federal registry do not have a right i mean why should it be when you know constitutionally by the marriage art uh it's been stipulated i mean they do have a role to play in licensing and marriage registry so i'm trying to understand why you know um that judgment was declared and why it should be valid or it should be obeyed okay okay i thought you are bringing on with a lot of hasan that was my thinking all right uh would uh would uh bring um uh olada to hasan he is uh the chairman of a meteor so back for a good morning to you barista hasan many thanks for joining us so we have been looking at this issue uh the federal government is insisting that um the married licenses are issued by the uh echo you registry they are not invalid as the court has said what are what are your thoughts concerning this because my dream seemed to be a bit confused as to the same court uh given you know contradictory you know uh role internal barista hasan well um what is the pleasure to be on your program this morning and that is a pleasure to be on your program this morning uh sorry i need to to live where i was due to network uh congestion uh the the with a manner things are being managed in this country um it seems to be of uh power absolutism in terms of uh the with a manner constitution was being drafted or crafted all right we seem to have in some connectivity issue with barista hasan we'll try and reconnect with you we'll somehow barista are you at the middle with us yeah go ahead yes very well so so i was i was saying that it will be good the matter is a kid uh so what about my colleagues who don't join us i think we're trying to talk about the fathers it all goes back to the issue of the structure of the of um of our country as predicated upon by the constitution of the book of indian issues such as marriage should um order the act should exclusively be on that the concurrent list so that both the federal even the state and local governments can condons marry this under the act and then we know that there's a functional position to that to that effect in that true sense of federalism so so uh while we are waiting the next um first to be taken on this uh judgment the judgment received by the dance system and um i haven't read what the myth of the children would i believe that they are they think they have to in sufficient grants of appeal upon which they can appeal the decision so as a lawyer uh by virtue of my vote of policies i will want to abide the decision of this court on this appeal well i'm hoping that i get answers you know for this particular concern i'm saying that if uh the federal ministry or the federal government through the federal registry has a role to play in licensing via the ministry of interior why would we have a judgment declaring or saying that uh you know all of the marriages that are conducted within the koi registry is invalid that's the major concern why because they also have a role to play is it that they do not understand that they have a role to play and why should it be respected because it doesn't sound like it's unconstitutional or it's illegal if you look at the act like you actually mentioned they ought to work hand in hand so that it's a major concern i'm hoping that you know we uh we have the reconnection because look at this if you say you have a right uh the federal registry has a right to conduct marriages because i remember that argument in 2017 it was solely saying that the federal government also has a right to conduct marriages and he has actually stated that and so if the federal government has a right to conduct marriages why then do we now have you know a declaration from a court or judgment saying oh uh in a particular case now saying all of the marriages conducted here it's illegal that's because um it is you know the local registrar should conduct them when you understand that they have a role to play they also have a right so i i really do not understand and of course because uh you know why we should actually you know that judgment should be given and why it should be upheld because what he is actually saying now it would require although the ministry of interior has actually put out the statement it would therefore require you know an appeal uh approaching the law again to actually maybe uphold or upturn you know the decision so however the declaration or the pronouncement or uh you know the statement from this court is actually valid it should stay valid that's what it means it should it should actually be my my own concern is you know the federal high court you know giving a particular ruling at the same time you know it's actually uh giving another ruling that the same uh registry that had been given licenses all those while is invalid when the law superlates that the ministry of interior can actually handle that another another uh consent for me will be going forward now where the people go for you know to get their marriage and license would they need to go to you know the the local government or the uh since uh from what the the ruling just said now all federal registries you know you know should be closed i'm thinking that you know we have um our guest back uh gentlemen it's good to have you join us once again a larger to her son uh has joined us back and i'm going to bring you on this particular one or probably just allow you continue with your thoughts but i'm also thinking do you don't you think that you know the issue of marriage and conducting marriages shouldn't be you know within the poll view of the federal government i mean let's also uh you know empower the local government to go ahead and conduct marriages the the government has a lot on its plate already it's an issue of security amongst all the issues defense what have you what are your thoughts on this what is the person director you go ahead and i saw the dot on her son okay yes well it's um yes i was trying to relate earlier that uh the way our constitution is being wired i've been issued on the 14 ground and that is one of the uh many things of what will continue to witness in terms of conflict of interest conflict of administrative um decision and the issue of the of the federal marriage registry and local government marriage registry will continue to resolve it and the best way we expect to have uh resolved this matter permanently in a federalist constitution is for the federal government to recuse itself itself to allow the local government to carry out with marriage because marriage under the act on its own should be of a domicile interest within with the local government and see whereby that marriage is being uh is being consummated but inasmuch as the court set the record it would be an afterthought for the federal ministry of interior to wanting to use expressly lead to autonomy to some of the court by reassuring cities to remain resolute it's uh on a safe value to the content of course without first um um seeking a leave of that court to inform the court and better still appeal if the federal ministry or the or the federal minister of interior at this junction is becoming public whereby they have lawyers that represent them at the court during the defendancy of the matter on the judgment was delivered and delivery is many of their uh uh their uh preliminary objection let me say they have of course the ordinary objection that they are there that they are previous judgment of listening judgment that were in their favor in this way of the judgment as far as the entire public is concerned it has reached a lot of them worry especially those whose marriage is the federal ministry of um on the federal marriage uh registry and there is this sort of approach to it aside for the fact that we are supporting the the conflict between the local government and the federal almost have been consummated in this country every in turning up on our wife we want to vote for the federal marriage uh registry maybe because of the total of them consummating their marriage or that is that there seems to be more superior or make their marriage more solid or more stronger rather than coming under the local government and there's no no iron tower fact that is that even most churches to say no they don't want a local government uh that if it is you know you cannot use it to travel you cannot use it to do anything you know if it's all of a lie and that's how they direct the look at government from any their own interest of consummating marriages and that look at government that's all of the issue one of the major issues is the point of revenue we have to look it from that perspective it seems the the federal ministry of interior is more concerned about the revenues making clearly up an hour from the from the um resume of people that are coming to do their consummated marriage so we have to do this partly so that the public needs to be informed appropriately and we want to say the federal minister of interior the federal marriage registry uh registrar um was doing a aid to put up a predicament that is more conflicting and has to set a tone in the coming days for more trouble the best way this can be resolved for is constitutionally amendment especially when the ongoing constitution is uh is before the national assembly now or it feels it's one thought that you now assure that marriage on that aspect of government not of anything that has to do with the federal ministry of interior let interior concentrate on security on the on um on um on the nndc on the ministry of uh um or the or the uh customs and um and other agencies that are under it but in a small chance the me are properly represented at the cost i want to say that the president judgment be allowed to see whereby what i would have said that the judgment children have um accounting for previous marriages that have been submitted that is retroactivate court as they call retroactivating uh the order by by giving is it like it's order opportunities from the next day they should have seen that from the taste of that judgment at the exclusive present of the local government and you know in order not to cause um unnecessary uh care in so many in some families as i speak to you some families on the budget i bought if we don't give them and if they lose to to them um uh taking it for that that was no marriage at the initial if you say for that to me in our position of president on so many matters that are presently before the court that are aligned on their that that is the same as here from the order of the court we do very good faith are ready uh ongoing matters of matters that have been decided upon by court of uh competition of of of of one industry so able to bring court in some matters so this will um set a lot of um to add the term uh confusion so both are the things in particular order of the court uh we cannot uh optimize this interview we are only suggesting that the court can as well uh replace it in the order and uh try to come uh to turn away it can be resolved but the first way this matter can be finally resolved is for the national of them to reduce the risk if the local government are the right and the thing to show that their marriages are are permitted at the local government level as far as the country is concerned all right thank you so much i'm arre or lada to hasan uh for your thoughts uh indeed and nigerians and uh those who just got married or who are actually contemplating getting married you know would have some sort of direction we do appreciate your time and your inner thought concerning all of this issue what we just saw all right it is still the breakfast and plus tv africa we'll take a quick break right now and we'll be focusing our gaze on the nation's public debt in a moment to join us again