 103.9 FM W. O. Z. O. Radio Knoxville. Digital free thought radio hour. Hello and welcome to digital free thought radio hour and W. O. Z. O. Radio 103.9 LP FM right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Today is Sunday, June 28, 2020. I'm Larry roger doubter five and as usual we have on the phone the line with us. Wombat. Hello Wombat. I just forgot the song I was going to sing. Where did it go? Dang it. Oh, oh, you guys ready? Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so. That's all. Yes means yes and no means no. There you go. Well done. Well done. Wow, face mapping. That's pretty cool. All right. How do you be having a limerick for y'all? Yeah, let's start with your invocation. Well, we've got a dread pirate Higgs on the show with us. We've got George, J. W. Kennedy, abstract atheists and Chad the Impaler. The digital free thought radio hour is a talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism and the sciences. And conversely, we also talked about religion, religious faith, Scott's holy books and superstition. And if you get the feeling that you're the only non believer in Knoxville, well, you're just not. There are several atheists and rationalists and free thinking groups here in Knoxville. And we'll be telling you how you can connect with them right after the mid show breaks. Also, did you know that we have a streaming atheist TV slash video show broadcasting here in Knoxville? Did you know that one about? I did know it. I did know it. And I'm so glad that you are really into obscure Japanese manga because this really needs more attention. So spy X family is a really great story about an assassin mom and a spy dad who adopt a psychic daughter. And like this daughter knows that the mom's an assassin and that the dad's a spy, but they don't know that each other's a spy and an assassin. So it's just like this weird counterplay with everyone. They actually are a family that loves each other at the end of the day. Spy just played out theme. No, what are you talking about? So good. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding. Dakota family was still acting right now. This would be the dream role for her. Now, this is an atheist call in television show and has been broadcasting in Knoxville for over 10 years. And we'll be telling you more about how you can watch it and one back can watch it after the mid show break. If you'd like to interact with us during the show, go to Facebook and search for digital free thought radio hour and use the messaging function to send us questions and comments during the broadcast. One bit what we have, what do we have today as a topic? We're going to begin before we're going to be talking about labels. But before we begin, how about we open up with our invocation from our own Dread Pirate Higgs? Threatened with burning in hell, B, he has said no need to yell until there's some proof that you're telling the truth. I ain't buying what you're trying to sell. Hey, very good. A lot of truth. All right. So, hey guys, we're going to be talking about labels today. I thought it'd be good because I just posted a video through my backlog because we can't go outside and have chats with people because of the coronavirus situation. But I had a conversation with a lady about the idea of labels and her opinion was labels are the worst. And she looked like your regular grandma, but she's like, no, I don't feel like how I look. I don't like using the labels to describe how I look. I mean, look at you. Are you African-Americans? No, I prefer to be called black. This is like, oh, right, right? So we all have all these labels that we use to denote who we are and use as shortcuts. And transgender people prefer gender. Exactly. And we have all these shortcuts that get us out of the way from really understanding who we are and labels are the worst things, right? And I was like, no, maybe we can talk about this because maybe labels are useful in some aspects. And maybe it's something more about the mindset rather than the word that we put on each other itself. So opening up the conversation about labels, and I'm going to throw it out first to Dredpire Higgs. Oh, wait, first, first, first, George, how would you define it? How would you define a label? Well, I'm asking you because it's your topic. I don't know how you use the word before, right? What would you define it? Well, to tell you the truth, I find the word label is kind of vague. And that's why I'm throwing it back to you to ask you what you had in mind when you brought it up as a topic. A label is, to me, a word that we stick on somebody else to define them. Okay. Yeah. Now, let me amplify on this a little bit because I've been thinking about it recently. And it is human nature to generalize. We try to understand stuff. We try to pigeonhole the world around us, which we do not understand. It's too hard to understand everything. And stuff's coming at us at high speed constantly. Information that we have to understand. Animals do it too. If a human being mistreats an animal, that animal will be wary of humans after that, especially if two humans mistreat that animal. All humans are like that. All black people are like this. All Jews are like this. All Christians are like this. So we put labels on people in an attempt to simply understand them. So I'm saying that this is human nature and that this type of labeling is at the root of prejudice, all kinds of mistreatment of other people. We pigeonhole them, for instance, as non-human. And that's how the Nazis treated the Jews. We also have a societally shared memes, ideas about certain groups, a lot of them, which is true. I call myself a computer program for most of my life, a computer programmer. And if I tell somebody I'm a computer programmer, they can use that label to learn an awful lot about me and my history, my background, before I have to elaborate any further on the specifics. So they're very helpful in some ways. They save a lot of time. Wait, you're saying you know how C++ Java and how to turn on a computer, turn it off and reformat and connect it? It's not simpler than just saying you're a computer programmer. We do as most of what you just said, yes. Oh, okay. I don't know C++. I don't think anyone does. Are they helpful and productive in every discussion? They are. So maybe- They also be harmful. I'm actually interested in what Chad thinks about labels. I think this would be an interesting thing to get his weight on. Chad, have you ever used labels before and what labels you like? First of all, maybe why not? What do you think a label is? And then maybe some positive labels, negative labels? What do you think? I think- and sorry about that click there. That was my mouth noise that I hate. I hate when other people do it, but I do it. So let me step outside. This is kind of echoey, apologies. Labels, it seems like labels might just be names for models that we build. And humans being model builders. It's fast thinking versus slow thinking. We do an awful lot of fast thinking. We have to because we used to use it to survive. And it seems inherent. It seems like it's very difficult to get away from building models because they're so useful. And it seems like that might be what we do with people. In the past, we used to have to quickly judge whether another group of people that seemingly on the surface are different from us to find out if they're a threat or not. It seems like that might be part of where this is coming from, why we do it so much to other people that look differently, that maybe speak differently. Because they're coming from a different geographic region usually. And we have to quickly assess whether or not they're dangerous. Yeah, it sounds like tribalism at play, right? Yeah, yeah. But it also not everything that- we can hack these things. We don't have these horrible things that we do that used to be useful. They have some modern significance and modern use as well. It's always great though to know where these things come from and know where they can lead, I think. So even talking about it like what we're doing, awareness of what past these things can lead us down. I could do it with the Nazis. I love how you said it's not just enough to use them. You have to know what they could be used for and where they could lead, like that awareness. They may convey either on purpose or accidentally. Yeah, you can use them dangerously or lazily or really usefully. They are useful. What do you think about the use, Nathan, abstract activists? I'm going to throw this out at you. What's the idea of labels in your life? I- a question popped into my head. I was wondering is the word truth a label? Ooh, I feel like it is. I feel like it is. I think it probably is too. We're basically pointing at something that we can't see or objectively, you know, absolutely determined and we're saying truth in the fourth person at best is like in constant. Right, right. Is there, yeah? Yeah, to me label would be something that is defining something though when we use colloquially the word label, I think of it as like I have certain value attributed to the shortcut of the discussion, but also I acknowledge that you have a different concept of what that thing is. So I have to be cognizant of what you think I think it is. So it's like this back and forth. This is why dictionaries and encyclopedias are very important. It'd be nice if we only had one dictionary so like competing 17 brands with dictionaries. It'd be nice if they didn't change. It'd be nice if they weren't written by Christians. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But sorry to stuff in your toes, Nathan, but like I thought you were going on a really good point. You're saying like there's a compromise between what your intentions is as the labeler and what the interpreter is as the person who's seeing the interview and then and what label you use may not be what's conceived of by the person who's hearing what you're saying. And so you're never going to meet one eye to eye on anything. So like there's some risk of mislabeling when you label something even if you accurately label it. Right. And if we were speaking a different language, we'd be using different labels. And they only really work because I understand you have an understanding of what that thing is. Right. And so if we're from different cultures and we speak the same language, it could be a completely different thing. Yeah, totally. That's correct. Yeah. So the more abstract that concept is, the more political, the more religious or more philosophical it is, you know, the less we can end up relating to each other. I'll throw that one last question to Nathan before I head over to J. W. But like, what do you think about art as a label? Wow. Like that giant thing behind you. I'm sure that means something to you, right? I look at that. I'm like, wow, that's really red and black. I'm really just trying to fill up the walls really in my room with little tapestries. I need to get a new tapestry that's got my like channel's logo on it. And that's why when I do my Zoom chats, I've got that background. J. W. just picked the blackness in his room. Well, what is, you know, when I was in my second high school, the music instructor asked people to define art. Hmm. We had a hell of a time. Oh, I got to go on that one. Yeah, well, it covers a lot of ground. That's for sure. Well, what we came up with was simply this, that art is a method of communication that transcends everyday speech. I like it. I like that. Now, I don't know anything better than that or worse, you know, it's it. No, I had some, you know, some something better to say about it. I did an artist and being the son of an artist and I just don't, you know, J. W., what do you think about that? You want to weigh on that? What do you think about the idea of art as a label and George's definition? Well, I'd say that art is I don't know if it's always been this way. I don't have like a workable knowledge of the history of words, but art seems to have become very subjective. Maybe it always has been. Maybe it has and I don't know. So I could see it. I could see it as a label. If we're defining label labels as words we use to represent abstract things or a large area of but I think that can can lead down a dangerous road. Like I was talking to you when when you and I did an interview, whatever that game that we played where you where you gave me a few topics to talk to rant about. And yeah, and that that night I talked a little bit about labels. I forget what the question was that you're asking me that the idea of masculinity, but it was like, what does it mean to be masculine? Right? Yes. And then I kind of triggered the thoughts about, you know, what is masculinity? What is what is femininity? And then then then I kind of shared my thoughts on the idea of labels. I think that at least my generation has a tendency to use labels to relieve themselves of the responsibility of understanding someone who believes in things differently than they do. They can be used for that. Yeah. Yes. That if they it relieves them of the spawn. Like I think it's Sam Harris that said. Boo bingo. Sam Harris, let's make sure we guys still still manning. Hold on. Do you see the ownership of that? Sam Harris. Holy crap. You had that on the ready. Still manning somebody and just seeking to understand somebody. I think I but I think like also you guys haven't liked me. I kind of did have mostly a negative view on the on the term label until this discussion. So I just got a lot of luck to think about. I want to answer that question that you gave me though, Ty, at some point. Go for it. The one about art. Yeah. I think my three, my three favorite abstract nouns are truth. Art and love because those three, those three words that you're looking at me will fall weird. Well, those I feel like you're the kind of guy who had that tattooed on your body or like up in your bathroom frame like those words. Really? Yeah, yeah. Like with macrame with like birdseed on them and it's like organic. Those words, they carry a lot of weight for a lot of people. And I mean, if you ask people what they mean by truth, I mean, you'll get a lot of different answers and you'll get a lot of different answers for the word love too. I'd say my answer for art would be all that whatever moves you something a product that somebody makes that's moving in some way. And that's why it can be, you know, something can be art to me because I find it moving and you can be like, that's just a blank canvas with hardly anything on it. How is that moving to you? And it wouldn't be art to you, but it'd be art to me. And in that sense, it is relative to the art distance. Unlike truth. Yeah, absolutely. Does it take an artist to create art though? I mean, can you, so is art defined strictly as something created by humans? Well, there's found art too. I hope there have to be intention as well. That's a really good question. And I suppose because it's an abstract noun, it might mean something different to other people and I'm open-minded to hearing what other people mean by that. And my definition would change with the person I'm talking to because it's a label, right? So somebody else tells me their definition of what the word art means and they're really specific about it. And it resonates with me in some way. I can adopt that for purposes of our conversation and go with that. Dude, that's the perfect SC mentality. Absolutely. Yeah, hey, yeah, yeah. I'll just take whatever we're doing just for this conversation. I'll work with that because I want to communicate with you. So if somebody said a waterfall is art, I'd be like, okay. Sure. I mean, if you want to say that. It's like found art or found object that the finder thinks is artistically worthy. Sure. And then you can communicate stuff to other people. He didn't create it, but he appreciates it. And maybe other people will too. When I hear that, I feel like science is beautiful. Yeah, I like the idea of accidental art. As you guys know, I'm in the middle of flipping a house. And on the floor in the living room of this house that I'm working in, there's all this paint speckle and concrete speckle and adhesive that's on the floor. And I picked up a piece of sheetrock drywall. Off of the floor and found this section that was just as beautiful as anything I'd ever seen. Anyone try to paint. And so, and I created that unknowingly. Is it only art when someone identifies it as such? Right. I mean, it seems like maybe. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not trying to be contrarian. No, no, no, no, it's a great point. I just defining, defining I think what you were asking. What is art? I don't, I don't know. But I know I find beauty in, in all kinds of things, both created by humans. And this is going to sound silly, especially coming from the background that I do. Created by humans or created by nature. And, you know, I don't see a difference. We have to create a difference. And we need to keep in mind it doesn't have to be beautiful. It doesn't have to be prettier or have beauty. It can have meaning and movement and even horror. And still be art. Sure. Yeah. I was going to throw a question out to Dread Pirate, but he's apparently a band and ship for just a couple of seconds. So, hey, I'll throw this on the board. To build on top of this, I think like someone says, hey, this waterfall is beautiful. That to me sounds like, hey, natural processes can generate something that's really extraordinary or science can be beautiful. When I hear that, it's like, thank you for saying that. Because if you ask me what some of the most beautiful things are, it's in nature. I'm not saying there's a seven-year-old Thanksgiving bird that was drawn with your girl's outlined hand is not the highest standard of art. But when I see a galaxy that's been taken by a spectroscopic microscope or telescope, or a black and white image from an atomic force microscope, or like just like these outlines of like, this is how fat gets turned into energy for your body to work. And it has all these different steps and all these course of like enzymes working together. I'm like, look at all this. I'm like, I can see why someone would look at this and say, this is intelligent design. Like this would have to be created like a high power. Gosh, trust me, dude. I live in Portland and I guess it's like all the times of golden ratio stuff. Right. Oh, yeah, I get that. You're born by something that's just so conceivably beautiful and complex. You're just like, this has to be art. But even though it's not created by an all-power for being, or like there's no evidence to support that, it's still an amazing thing. Like that doesn't take away anything. Totally. The wombat, think about the outlines of hands we find in caves that are 30,000 years old. That's definitely hard. Those are terrible artists though. Like, oh, come on, guy. You're just, that's graffiti. They did that in 2020 to get arrested. Another nature's work. Dred Piran, I want to throw the question at Arbat, but you went to Avast for a quick question. I was busy writing something down. And it's this, art, for me, external expression of an internal impression. Oh, I like it. I like it. Yeah. I like that too. Yeah. What do you think about labels? What do you think about art? Like, is art a label? Or what do you think about labels in general? Well, art, yeah, I think it would be a label. You know, it's almost like just placeholders for meaning labels are. Right? It's like, you know, a shingle outside of a store. It doesn't say definitively what you can expect to see inside. But, you know, if you see a shingle that says apothecary or a pharmacist or something like that, there's some things that you could, you know, confidently expect to find within it. But, you know, and there again, there you have the change between apothecary and a pharmacist. You know, so labels change as meetings change and meetings change, you know, according to how we use those labels, right? Nice. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely agree. Like, home apoc, cure versus clinically trial tested FDA approved. Exactly, right? Yeah. Cool. Hey, we're at the bottom of the half hour. Doubt or five, why don't you take us out? We'll come right back to this. Hey, this is Digital Freethought Radio Hour and WOZO Radio 103.9 LP FM, right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Going to take a short break. We'll be right back. See you then. Hello and welcome back to Digital Freethought Radio Hour and WOZO Radio 103.9 LP FM, right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. I'm Doubt or five and today is Sunday, June 28th, 2020. Welcome to the second half of the show. Let's talk about the Freethought groups that you can join here in Knoxville. First, there's the Atheist Society of Knoxville, founded in 2002. We're in our 18th year. ASK has over 1,000 members now and you can find us online by searching for Knoxville Atheist or go to KnoxvilleAtheist.org. If you don't have a meetup group or an Atheist group in your town, then you can just start one. No, that's not how you do that. Do that again. How do you do that? How do you do it? How do you do it again from the start? Okay. If you don't live in Knoxville, you can still go to meet up and search for an Atheist group in your town. Don't find one. Start one. Nobody joined except one man. Thank you, one man. I'm back. Another large freethinking group here in Knoxville are the Rationalists of East Tennessee. And they've been around for more than 20 years. Just go to rationalist.org and click on upcoming events to find out what they're up to. Earlier in the show, we said we talked about the Atheist Call in TV show or video show. We have an Atheist Caller TV show. It could happen. It could happen. Then going on for over 10 years, first broadcast on the local TV channel, Community Access TV. But now it's on YouTube and you can find by searching for Freethought Coalition of Knoxville, Freethinkers United Coalition. You can find also archives of their show on YouTube where Van has been posting them. If you're interested in getting involved with this TV show or radio show, excuse me, you can come to an ASK meeting or RAT meetup and talk to us about it. It could be our next co-host or guest. With us on the show, we have one bad, our co-host. And we also have J.W. Kennedy, Chad the Impaler. Well, he's gone. Abstract Atheist, George and Dred Piratig. Welcome all. And we were talking about labels. Should we go back to more labels? Yeah. So one of the biggest labels that I hate personally, I think would be I think would be good as if we did a round table on everyone's top three abstract nouns because I love that thing that you're doing because mine will be completely different than all those things that you're saying. That's one of the reasons I started the channel. That's why I gave my channel the name. Yeah, it was because I was fascinated with abstract nouns. Because I already set this up. I'm just going to do this corny thing real quick. I hate it when people call me a pineapple because I hate the pineapple logo. That's not cool. You just can't call people pineapples. All right. That's a thing. All right. Anyway, that's it. That's cool. So just keep it that way the whole time. I love that filter. I'm also a pickle. Hey. Okay. So what is doubt or five your top three nouns slash labels? Three. Yeah. Like you think are the most important. They don't have to define you. But like as what was it for abstract activists? Oh, for me, for myself? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're all a lot of true fan art. Decepticonarian. Art. Wow. Atheists, of course. That's a big label. That's a big one. And a programmer. I love computers and I love making them do what I want to do. Would you say those are three important to you? They don't have to define who you are. They could just be what you think are three labels are important. Well, one I was going to throw out there was faith. A lot of people throw faith around like it's every like all the time they use it, it means the same thing when it doesn't. It's got several different definitions. But it's just something that needs to be defined when you're using the word. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big one. J.W. What do you think are your top three abstract now slash labels? No audio, my friend. I thought you said you fixed it. I told them to fix it and work on it. Well, we'll give you some time to work on that. Dread Pirate, what are your top three down slash labels? Don't fix what's not broken, J.W. So, well, I would go with faith, belief and a Pastifarian. Okay. What I we talked about faith before. What's what's the difference between belief versus faith? Well, I mean, you know, strictly speaking, faith is a belief in the absence of evidence. You know, if you take accept that as a definition and then belief is, you know, based on evidence. So, yeah, I think those two terms are often used interchangeably by people who haven't given serious thought about the fact that those things are different. Equivocated as it were. I like that. Yeah. And then Pastifarian, what's what's the value of that as a label? Is there a lot of misconceptions about Pastifarian or? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, lots of misconceptions. You know, well, I don't understand how there could be a single one. What are you talking about for the horde? Yeah, no, you know, Pastifarians are treated, you know, as a group of people by a lot of people as just mocking other people's religions. When I think it's a legitimate organization concerned with the separation of church and state. And, you know, as the influence of, you know, religion is so pervasive in our culture across the world. It's an important thing to struggle for, in my view. And so we're the important thing we're trying to do is establish Pastifarianism as something that people can respect and not just cheer at. Very nice. Yeah. George, what's your three abstract nouns? I am blanking out, gentlemen. I'm sorry. I cannot say a word about this. Fair enough. I love this topic. I'm having an I'm having an I'm having an ADD moment than my mind is flying around. So I'll tell you some that we've only talked a couple of times, but I've noted that you use like New Yorker Jewish artists, musician a number of times. Like, do any of those? Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah. Okay. So labels are convenient because I have to redefine myself at the age that I am looking back at my life. I'm not a youngster anymore by any means. And I have to find myself as a musician at times because it's been handy, but I've done other things. I'm a creative person. I'm not just a musician. So I, okay. How cute. Why don't you talk about labels? Hey, I feel sorry for you. You, you were raised atheist by default by parents who didn't have spiritual beliefs, but you said you also have a Jewish background at the same time too. Well, yeah. My genes are genetically Jewish. And do you feel like some people might misconstrue the label of Jewish as saying that you're a person of faith at the same time too? And like what? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. They, they will, they will misconstrue that I'm a person of faith. They will misconstrue that I am a Zionist, you know. Whereas it's nothing, almost nothing could be further from the truth, you know. Yeah. That I, that good misconstrue that I hate Palestinians, which I do not. I guess I have an imaginary conversation in my mind. I project the label upon myself and then say, what is this other person thinking of me and thinking that this means and I have mentioned to a couple of people. I don't tell people that I'm an atheist where I live. I've mentioned, so I've said I'm Jewish. And they, a couple of times people have reacted in shock and horror when I said that. Now I'm not used to this, you know. I don't know what was going through their minds. Maybe it's just that they've never met a Jew before. And they don't know what to say. And all kinds of strong atheist vibes about you and they're just disappointed. They're just like, ah, I thought he was one of us. You know, I've heard it said that to, to a, to any religious person, somebody of the other, of another religion is an atheist. True. The original usage of the word atheist was by the Romans, uh, labeling Christians because they didn't believe in the Roman gods. It's true. It's true. I mean, the Christians were the first atheists. What pagans literally means someone who doesn't believe in my God. Like that's, that's, that is it. JW, your, your mic is still out. Unfortunately, uh, say something. No, we can't hear you, my buddy. But if you knew sign language, we would be able to handle this already. So just saying. But you are getting a little gold bar at the bottom of your screen. Maybe it's the volume issue. Yeah. Just raise up that volume, baby. All right. Uh, Eric, are you here? I am here. I'm, I'm just talking today, but we're okay. Okay. We won't put you on the spot. Yeah. But uh, well, um, you know, I, uh, we started talking about this at the beginning of the show and, and, um, I'm thinking about, you know, what, what I said at that point was that as human beings and living creatures, really, we generalize to try to make sense out of stuff. And I, and I have an ongoing, um, confusion about how to deal with my neighbor across the street who was flying a Confederate battle flag when I moved here and, um, has proved to be a wonderful neighbor. Maybe the best neighbor I've ever had. And yet he generalizes, uh, against other groups of people. Yeah. And, and so, um, I watched the process. Now recently he said to me, uh, that people are peeing in the street in San Diego and in New York, and this is just fine with the authorities. And I said, having lived in both of these places, I said, that's preposterous. It's ridiculous. He says, no, no, no, it's true. Um, he has an image in his mind of people who live in New York and people who live in California, a whole set of generalizations of these debauched humans. Um, I think you're raising a really good point. Like a label is just what we title a generalization, but you could still have the generalization and not have the label before it and it can still be a dangerous thing. That's good. Like that generalization can still be dangerous even without the label. Right. The label is simply a name for the generalization. The generalization is the mindset, and that's what needs to be open. Like you need beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad I'm, I'm really glad we're having this discussion because this, the, the issue of, you know, what do I want to do here? Let's say, um, I am finding that I am appreciating this person as a human being. I'm appreciating his good qualities and he does have them. And so how do I bring him along? You know, let's say, Yeah, it's not your responsibility to, how do I put this, change anyone's mind? It should be everyone's prerogative to have the best mindset possible to work with reality. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very, very beneficial to work with reality and, and, and you can't change anyone's mind and it's not your goal to change anyone's mind. The best thing that you should be willing to do is be willing to have, or, uh, understand what it means, what you need to do to have a reasonable conversation with people who might be operating under bias that's not beneficial and just say, Hey, why not work to a higher standard? Like if you can just ask the right questions and not put yourself in on one's mind, it picks all the weight off of you and gives you the opportunity to maybe catch maybe your own biases if you just really care about the best way of knowing true things and false things. So when I was that way, I remember being just miserable, a miserable person, helping them in that sense too. What's that? You do look happier now. I'll say that. Thanks. Because I remember being in that mindset of just believing everything I was told and I just hyper-fix it on every negative thing that came my way, you can really help this person. You said you know them personally and I think SE has helped me a lot personally and helped me build stronger and more humble relationships and friendships. One thing I like to do, if someone comes to me with a misconception like people are being in the streets in these two cities and you know it's not true, the first thing I ask them is, who told you that? Because then you don't know that's not true and it's a lie and you might want to consider the other things that they're telling you. I've only had them twice. I'm going to just say one thing because it's also SE, I love SE, but instead of being like who told you, ask them how did you find that out and if they give you a person, at least then they gave you a person but you're not begging the question that it was a person ahead of time. George, what do you got? And then we'll throw up the JW because this mic's working and I want to know what his three labels are. Yeah. What do you got? Well, I'm sorry, this opens a whole Pandora's box. Oh my gosh. So I'm debating with myself whether to... We'll be here next week. Let me just put it this way. A good Lord wills Tyrone. Hey, even if he doesn't, I'm still here. This fellow has used the term fake news to me. And so this shows a little bit about where he's coming from. And I've been looking at the issue of the parallels between Donald Trump and Adolf Hitler. Oh my gosh. The methods that Trump is reusing that were successful for Hitler and one of them was attacking the press and accusing the press of spreading falsehoods, you see. And where this Pandora's box opens is that this gentleman's daughter happens to be a newspaper reporter. She went to J school. So she's got a degree in it. She's worked for at least two papers. And so when Trump says that the press is the enemy of the people he's actually talking about this guy's daughter. Yeah. And so, yeah, okay. Here's a label. The press, you know. But George, we'll get into this more for sure. No doubt. And don't forget. I definitely want to talk about the news someday. We've got four months. We've got four or five-ish months before we can vote again. But J.W., what's your three labels that you hold to high-ski? So three labels that I hold to high-standard. Well, abstract activist has some really great ones. I do. I do. Truth. Truth and love. Knowledge. I mean, I'm a lyricist that I write poetry. So it's hard to kind of like, yeah, ask me like what... I gave you so much time to think about this, J.W., what do you got? Give me something. This is like third time. Knowledge. Oh, okay. Knowledge. Hope. Hope. Whoa, look at this guy. I love hope. I love hope. I don't know what I'd do without that word. Hope and strength. Okay. What's hope? I think hope is like the most passionate one for you. What is hope? Hope is kind of like faith. I think they're in the same family terms. It's... I'm not... Tomorrow's not here or next year isn't here, but I'm going to keep working and keep doing things in hope that things will get better and continue to get better and in hope that I will, you know, be strong enough and cognitively aware enough and strong enough to, you know, complete my goals and all that. Goals are a good one too. Not to put my own label on this, but I can tell you how I'm interpreting it. It sounds like hope is just intellectually honest faith. Yeah, or I was going to say faith plus reason. Faith plus reasoning. Faith plus glasses. You know, you could say it's a mental exercise to buoy up your spirit toward the future. Right. Yes. Spirit's a good one too. Love spirit. Okay. Okay. Do we get everybody? Oh, I can do mine real quick. I would love... I think my number one is doubt. And the thing is, you're Nathan, your favorite is truth. And there's no... Probably. There's no greater ally. There's no greater tangible ally for truth than doubt. If there is an army of truth, doubt is the vanguard, the general, the infantry, everything, like the tip of every sphere. Doubt is there in service of truth. They're not at odds with each other. Absolutely. Doubt is always working for truth. And because of that, it's important to realize how much we need to rely on doubt, because it seems like it's the easiest thing. The first thing people are willing to dismiss when they come into an unknown situation. They're like, oh, I'm doubtful, but who cares? Or maybe... It's better. Well, Wombat is doubt. Doubt... The opposite of faith. I think that's the opposite of confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Doubt is the thing that I'm always appealing to. Getting a bakery. Doubt is always the thing I'm appealing to when somebody... And I have a disagreement about what the word truth means. I appeal to what we positively know is false. Yeah. To help me course correct our similar definition of what the truth is. Yeah. Yeah. So it's possible that some of my beliefs are not true, and that's what leads me to believe things are true. Exactly. Yeah. That's the thing that's going to break the chains to help you get to truth. And you need to have that. And the funniest thing is it gets no credit whatsoever. It doesn't ask for credit either. It's just this amazing... It's this amazing sensation of... Not now. Or I don't think you can fight that. Or maybe that's one drink too many. All these things are in the service of helping you be a better person. Doubt is always work and help you be better. You can always have too much doubt. That's true. But, you know, it's always in your interest. It's always working the trend. Like, that's the guy that's like, you should punch that dude and then try to become president and then put these people in cages. Like, that's never doing that. I've had pens made up to hand out for the Atheist Society of Knoxville. And they say on the side, it says, your doubt is not Satan tempting you. It's reality trying to emerge and set you free. Right. You can set all those words on a pen. I want one of those pens, please. That's very good. Also, you'll never see the love, health, and happiness, those three-word mantras. You'll never see doubt in any of those like, bedroom mantras. I might want to make one. Yeah, because it doesn't feel good. Why not? It should. It should. That could be like, whoa, you just protect me. That's the guy who's like, oh, hey, hold that. Hold back, hold back. The word skeptic. I have questions. I've got questions. Yeah. Skepticism comes to my mind, you know? Yeah. It could be distinguished from cynicism. Oh, very good. Which a lot of many people can say. Yeah. I also like science as a term. And then maybe wealth would probably be the next one, only in the sense that a lot of people don't understand. We don't teach financial responsibility in school. And I think if we did, a lot of things would change both on how we see the world objectively, how we understand politics, like how we can like reframe for marginalizing people and being like in a healthier society. If we just understand, you know, what wealth is versus like, I have a lot of money. It's like, so what? You have a lot of debt too. You got to balance that out, Bobby. All right. All right. All right. It's why, it's why when you see like a rapper with a gold plated helicopter, it's like, okay, that is a rich dude. But when you see Bill Gates wearing like goodwill glasses and a sweater, it's like, that's wealth. Like there's a difference here. He lives in a cabin in the woods. You're bankrupt than your third mansion. There's a difference here. All right. How about Donald Trump with a huge building that's just got bling all over it? Yeah. We can get into it. We can get into it. Maybe we should just have one back presidential bash. Hopefully we do this after November though. Like, or else I just won't be in the mood. All right. There's the love. Good top of the hour now. Yeah. We're at the top of the hour. I'm trying to end the show. Dread Pirate World can find you. Where can we find you, buddy? Well, you can find me on mine pirate on YouTube. This show right now is being live streamed. Nice. And then it'll be saved. And it'll be there for you to watch, you know, late night in popcorn. Very cool. Very Canadian. Well said. J.W. Where can we find you? We have two YouTube channels and two Twitter Twitter accounts. The J.W. Kennedy to a YouTube and Twitter and speak your beautiful mind. YouTube and Twitter. Nice. Content coming soon. The comedy clubs are opening up here in the Nashville area. Slowly but surely. So J.W. Kennedy, that channel is going to have something very soon. Hopefully. And also be safe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where can we find you? Yo, you can find me on YouTube. I've got under abstract activist. S.E. Also on Twitter at abstract abstract underscore S.E. Nice. Very cool. That are five. George, I'm not skipping you. How about this, George? What's the song or something we should check out in the next week? I have nothing out there. All right. Yeah. That are five. Okay. Feel free to close up the show. I'm Let's Chat. We can see you next week. You can find me on Twitter at five minute chat. All right. Go for it. Okay. I do have a book out there. It's called atheism. What's it all about? It's on Amazon. Be sure to visit my blog. Digital Freethought.com. Click on the blog button. It has all of our shows, our archives, atheists on many articles. You can also send questions to this show by writing to AskAnAtheist at KnoxvilleAtheist.org. We'll answer them in future shows. I also like to tell you that we have our podcasts on podcast. Everything. Com, iTunes, Stitcher, Luminary, iHeart, all over a place. And as a reminder, I like to tell everybody, everybody's going to somebody else's hell. The time to worry about it. They prove that heavens and hells and souls are real. Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life. We'll see you next week right here on WOZO Radio 103.9 off BFM Wednesdays at 7 o'clock. So we'll see you next week. Say bye everybody. Bye everybody. Bye. Stay rational. Goodbye. Goodbye.