 Meeting as is customary our city clerk Sue Richards will read the quote of the evening As we express our gratitude. We must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them Thank You sue roll call, please Sir here Vander wheel here and wongamon here 16 present Thank You sue before we get into the pledge of allegiance if I can ask all alderman to put your microphones on today We have a new sound system here, which automatically picks up anybody who is speaking so that any roll call votes or whatever that are done Will be will be heard over the air Now for our pledge of allegiance if we can be led by Alderperson Clioness, please Gene if you can go to the mic at the podium Thank You Gene We have approval of the minutes of the former common council meeting motion to approve the minutes second motion in a second under discussion If there is none all in favor say aye opposed Motion carries public forum No public forum, so we get right to my favorite part the mayor's announcements First of all, I would like to thank our city clerk sue Richards also known as the nuts and bolts of the city for being here this evening Sue's mother passed away yesterday morning and Sue being the dedicated person that she is is here tonight. I told her I wouldn't Drag on about this and but if you see sue breaking up this evening It's not because it's the start of another city scandal or anything. It's because because of The situation the stress of sue is under and she is in our prayers her and her family and her mother And thank you for being here, sir Um, otherwise in the in the mayor's announcements, I'd like to congratulate our Wscs TV 95 and 990 The they are the proud recipient of eight cable programming awards presented at the Wisconsin Association of Public Educational and Government Access Channels so we congratulate them for that out of 140 entries they won eight awards, which is is quite the accomplishment so congratulations to them Also, I'd like to take this time to thank three outgoing elder persons on our council other persons Clioness Suric and Voo You served your city well it's very easy for people to sit in the background and to Comment on the way the city operates, but until you actually get into how it operates you don't know and I commend the three of you for stepping forward into doing your part For the citizens of our city Although Maybe you and I did not agree on every issue, which we shouldn't that's why it's called a democracy You've all Done a very proud job of representing your constituents and Of representing the city of Sheboygan and I thank you for that Would anybody like to say anything else? Even though it's the mayor's comments time the mic is wide open Alderman Boren Thank You, Mayor Ryan. I would like to Say it's been a pleasure having Alderman Suric as my vice president of law and licensing Also Alderman Voo has been a member of my committee active member this year also Special thank you to all her person Clioness We came in in 2006 along with Alderman Hanna and It's been a pleasure for me to serve on the finance committee for the last four years with Jean She's always prepared Brilliant woman and did an excellent job in that committee. It's been a real pleasure Jean Thank You Alderman Boren president Kisha Thank You your honor on behalf of the entire council a Dead of gratitude goes to the three individuals you mentioned You were correct in your comments your honor. You really don't know the time commitment the the family commitment and the The nights you do remain sleepless Or waking up in the middle of the night over things we're dealing with here and only these three fine individuals Would understand so in some cases I I kind of envy them a little bit They'll sleep a little better, but I know their heart is with Sheboygan and I also want to thank Sue Richards because I think your quote whether planned or not really I think expresses The situation with Alderman Suric, Clioness and Voo as it read as we express our gratitude We must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to other words But to live them and these three individuals live them every moment since they took the oath that that at that podium Thank you again. Thank you president Kisha All the person Clioness Thank you, your honor. I'd like to thank first of all The city employees I got to know a lot of you and I really appreciate Your insights and your knowledge. I learned a lot from you and working with you on committees was a great learning experience and a great Chance for me to appreciate the city from the inside out. I also want to thank you the council for your friendship Many of you became friends of mine and we became I to I consider you a family family that argues and Discusses but we all have the same purpose which is to better the city of Sheboygan and Finally like to thank my constituents in the city of Sheboygan citizens for the trust and Insight you gave me on your understanding some of the issues were very difficult From the time we hit the floor But you always seem to listen and to try to see both sides and I really appreciate that even if it wasn't the side That you wanted. I think we we came to some good understandings and I appreciate that very much. Thank you Thank you, Gene and again, I think I think all alderman for serving for serving the citizens of this city Consent agenda President Gisha, thank you your honor I move to accept and file all reports of officers Accept and adopt all reports of committees and pass all resolutions and ordinances Second we have a motion in a second under discussion Vice president Heidemann think I'm here item 2616 Resolution 2209 10 I would like this item referred back to the new committee of the public works committee Okay, 2616 an RC by public work works recommending filing resolution number 220 dash 0 9 dash 10 by Alderperson Kittleson Regarding a contract for the move removal of city trees. We have a motion to refer this back to the Public Works committee of the new council. Do we have a second second? We have a motion and a second under discussion on this Alderman Hannah, did you want to discuss this issue something else? Okay, if there is no discussion Discussion on this issue There is no discussion all in favor say aye. I Alderman Decker. Did you want to discuss this issue? Yes, please I'm gonna have to vote no on this for one reason a constituent of mine back I would say back last July. I think it was Ran into some trouble when we were dealing with Stevie B at that time It ended up him getting a disorderly conduct while working with the city That my book is a very serious issue We've discussed this now two or three times it was the whole committee's recommendation that we Drop this issue. This is a problem I Guess so we got to ask ourselves with the quality of service. We want in the city Yeah, is he coming in with a very good price? zero dollars. Yeah, that's great, but for me, I Not gonna be held liable for another situation like this. Thank you. Thank your Alderman Decker Any further discussion Alderperson Kittleson? Thank you, Mayor I guess I I would have to agree with Alderman Decker our committee did discuss this bids did come in I think we had about six of them come in All the way ranging of large range of numbers one at zero and the next lowest was at $38,000. We know what our budget is like at this time. So We had did vote to file the whole communication and know that our own city workers would Would be cutting down trees this summer and I know constituents have called and they are being put on a list and and As there are workers have time to work this into their schedule We'll be trimming trees and cutting down dead trees But the committee did come to a consensus on this that zero that we voted against Accepting Stevie B's Thank you all the person client is sending further discussion on this issue, which is referring back to committee Kittleson sorry, Gene both genes also On this issue any further discussion? I hear somebody beeping here, but I can't see any lights. So I don't know what's going on here No, it's Alderman Hannah. No, I'm still waiting. You're still waiting for the next subject. Okay, I Don't know why things are beeping here, but it's a new system. So Can we have a roll-call vote? I'm referring back to committee and I vote will refer this back to committee I know Hi, Decker. No Yes, I Hannah. No Heidemann. I cut. Hi No, no No, Montemay or no No, sir. No, Vanderweel. No No Motion fails it will remain on the consent agenda any further discussion on the consent agenda Alderman Hannah You I'd ask that 26-4 be pulled out for a separate vote 26 4th by the city plan commission recommending grant equality state oil company the privilege of encroaching you want this for a separate vote Very good. Thank you. Okay, so the consent agenda is 26 1 through 26 3 and 26 5 through 26 21 Any further discussion? Roll call, please Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi, Geisha. Hi, Hannah. Hi Heidemann. Hi, Katt. Hi, Kittleson. Hi, Clayunas. Hi, Montemay or. Hi, Rindflash. Hi, Zurich. Hi Vanderweel. Hi, Vu. Hi, Wongamon. Hi, Boren. Hi, and Bulk. Hi. 16 ayes Motion carries now 26 4 an RO by city plan commission recommending granting quality state oil company ink the privilege of encroaching on portions of Whedon Creek Road located at 1211 Whedon Creek Road Alderman Hannah you would like to abstain on this issue. I take it Yeah, I need to abstain. I manage money for one of the owners. Very good. Thank you any further discussion if they're None roll call, please Decker. Hi Geisha. Hi, Hannah. I abstain. Heidemann. Hi, Katt. Hi, Kittleson. Hi, Clayunas. Hi, Montemay or. Hi, Rindflash. Hi, Zurich. Hi, Vanderweel. Hi, Vu. Hi, Wongamon. Hi, Boren. Hi, Bow. Hi, Bowers. Hi, 15 ayes, one abstention. Motion carries communications and petitions 26-22 by Alderman Hannah from the president of rebuilding together Sheboygan County Incorporated requesting that the electrical and plumbing permit fees be waived for all rebuilding together homes in the city of Sheboygan Alderman Hannah Thank You, mr. Mayor. I'd ask for this to be suspended the project that we're dealing with begins this weekend What the rebuilding together is asking us that we waive the Plumbing permit fees and the electrical fees. We already waived the building permit fees and the dumpster fees This makes us consistent with the way the city of Manitowoc works with them very good So we're motioning to spend rules spend the rules second have a motion in a second to suspend the rules Under discussion on suspension of the rules only is anybody opposed to suspending the rules There's no opposition rules are suspended Alderman Hannah I Move that we place the communication be accepted and that we grant the request of Rebuilding together second very good. We have a motion in a second under discussion Alderman Boren Thank You, Mayor Ryan Alderman Hannah. Do you know how many homes they work on and about how much revenue that would be if we waive those I Wish I wish I did you know, I know they normally work on 10 to 15 homes a year. They've done over 300 homes in our community It's almost silly because we give them the money and now we're charging it back to them So it's it's we're just trying to be consistent. They're doing a wonderful job They've got a lot of volunteers and I know they've done, you know 300 plus homes and in the Sheboygan area So I do I don't have a specific number. Thank you Thank You Alderman Boren any further discussion if there is none all in favor say aye opposed motion carries Reports of officers to 26-23 by the City Plan Commission recommending approving the capital improvements program recommended by the Capital Improvements Commission for 2010 and adopting the 2010 program for implementation Capital improvements President Kisha Thank You your honor. I move that the Report of officer be accepted and adopted and the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second under discussion if they're under discussion Alderman Hannah I just wanted to thank the The group for the capital improvements group for increasing the amount of money we're going to be spending on sewer projects Long overdue and I'm glad you guys step forward on the mini sewers Thank You Alderman Hannah any further discussion roll call, please Motion carries resolutions introduced three 26-39 by Alderman Gisha granting a 90-day extension of the residency requirement for the police chief and also with this We are going to take 2653 by salaries and grievances recommending extending the time What did I miss the to be referred? Yeah, sorry about that backing up here to be referred 26 24 through 26 38 How's that? All right Now 26 39 as I've already read and we're taking with that 26 53 Which is by salary and grievances recommending extending the time frame for the chief of police for the residency Requirement for an additional six months until January 2011 President Gisha Thank You your honor. I moved that the resolution be put upon its passage Second we have a motion in a second under discussion your honor if I may our new police chief has purchased a Lot in the first district I might add And I'm sure he didn't know that when he purchased it. I'm sure yeah He did and actually just down from all the person sir It's home and is under construction at this time of a of a home they've broken ground things are moving along and We felt rather than waiting to the last minute understanding the construction timeline that we would be proactive and ask that a 90-day extension to accommodate his physical movement into the city very good Under further discussion Alderman Boren Thank You mayor Ryan. I don't have a problem. I'm going to vote for this but on 26 39 the last line It says said extension shall be effective until October 18 2010 and then that document number 2653 six months recommends that the six month extension be granted until January 2011 I would presume the January date is the correct one Yes President Kishin Thank You your honor. Yes Alderman Boren. There's some date discrepancies Because technically our ordinance allows for a the committee dealt with a six month extension But our ordinance is only allowed for a 90-day extension thus the resolution calling for a 90-day extent extension Which would trump the report of committee? the date on the 90-day extension is Accurate October 18. Yes. Thank you Any further discussion There is none roll call, please I Motion carries 26-40 by Alderman Gisha waving contingency Oh 26 53 is along with that I move the ordinance we put upon passage Okay, I move that the report committee be accepted and adopted second Yeah, actually we're gonna want to file that because we went with the motion to file Second we have a motion and a second to file under this There's no discussion all in favor of filing say aye opposed Document is filed Now 26 40 by Alderman Gisha waving contingency and authorizing a contract for improvements at the wastewater treatment plant facility President Gisha Thank You your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion in a second. I don't believe we need to suspend the rules. No, your honor Just bad note on my part if I may on a We had this document come through our committee actually several times We were waiting on some and they've been approved several times I think in committee of the we're waiting on some contingencies and holding that now we're in the period where Releasing those contingencies and actually doing the work It requires this document as a final action Very good any further discussion If there is none roll call, please I Motion carries 2641 by Alderman Gisha establishing the composition of the merged group health insurance and wellness committee president Gisha Thank You your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage second motion in a second under discussion You're on I just briefly like to thank attorney McLean for doing some mop-up work on some of these committee merger stuff That's what this does it so you don't have like two massive committees that it breaks it down into more of a manageable group And I thank him for that Thank You president Kisha Alderperson kiddelson. Thank You mayor just a quick Mention here. I want to just say thank you to alderman suric for serving on the Insurance committee with me. It was great working with him We had a great working relationship with group health and wellness and as I thought about it It is a good thing to To merge the two together because many of the same people are on that committee and then with one less alderman We know everybody's time is valuable and and it works well that way But again lots of thanks to to Ed because we always discussed everything and we had a real good working relationship So thank you so much for that. Thank you Thank You gene any further discussion If there is none roll call, please Kittleson Hi Montemay or I Sir I Motion carries 26-42 by Alderperson's Hyde man Kittleson about Gisha and kath lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire Summer help ten lifeguards and four bridge tenders for the Department of Public Works Vice president. I think I think mayor I move the resolution be put upon its passage Second we have a motion in a second under discussion. Okay. We discussed the set salary grievances We need to lift the hiring freeze in order to hire some Summer lifeguards and also we're gonna afford bridge tenders and these people are gonna be people that be brought back From people that were laid off at the Department of Public Works very good Thank You vice president Heidemann under further discussion alderman boran alderman Heidemann answered my question Thank You very good Alderperson Kittleson. Thank you mayor. Did we need to suspend the rules on this as well? Were we going to? We had discussed that in in salary and grievance that we would suspend the rules in order to get this going hiring The lifeguards and the bridge tenders for the first summer. This this will pass this evening correct If it passes, I mean you have to vote for our first obviously Alderman Rindflesch Thank You your honor. I'm assuming that These positions were within the budget Just hasn't meet we need this resolution to lift the freeze to allocate funds for these positions budget question Terry Hansen bill Bill Bittner our director of public works However, it did take some amendments That were handled through the finance committee because the money wasn't with the shift in differencing of cost The money wasn't all in the right place, so there was very good. Thank you just a statement Very similar situation occurred a few months ago or a few weeks ago where we had positions that were Budgeted for but had to go through exactly the same process. Of course. I'm speaking about the four firefighters that we're using as well I guess I don't see the difference between these four firefighters. I know we're going to put We don't need to hire lifeguards, so we don't put people's lives at risk that makes sense to me but you know I came home Thursday night and there was a motorcycle on the intersection of Weeding Creek Road and car hit that and there was calls out that that I didn't see a fire truck that right away because who knows what had it came from at that point in time So I really can't support this because I think to me is what's more vital to staff To protect our homes from fires and our citizens in the case of accidents and ambulance runs So at this point, I won't support this unless we do both because they're both in the budget. They're both Allocated their budget. I don't see why we can lift the freeze for one and not the other. Thank you Thank You're Alderman Renfleisch Alderman Hannah. Yeah, just just a point of information shouldn't this have come with the physical information form Should this have come with the it is authored by co-authored by Alderman Gishe the It should have contained the Fife you are correct. We saw it in committee. Yeah, we had a fight President Kisha, thank you your honor and My friend Alder person Hannah Hannah, which I don't often say was absolutely correct He the fight form would have answered those questions. That's why Although some people make fun of it the questions regarding the budget and so forth as to whether it's in or out Would have been answered by that and we did have it in committee. We had it in committee But it just isn't attached to the document right and in speaking to our summer help lifeguards and for bridge tenders We we are going to be bringing back Per our contract laid off workers, but the citizens need to understand that We're going to be down about 20 Individuals working summer help in the city and this isn't trying to pit people against each other It's just they have a right to know because those 20 individuals kept our lake fronts clean Painting the railings on the riverfront kept everything neat and tidy and we're down 20 Because although we're bringing back these individuals who are laid off for budgetary concerns. They're back at their wage Right. They're back at their wage for part-time work, correct. No, they're back at their wage When they were there full-time they do not get benefits or with thoughts of retirement service or any of the additional benefits But because of that it sucks up Rather than a bunch of eight or nine dollar an hour folks. We used to I'm not saying it's right or wrong or indifferent I'm just saying people have a right to know that there's going to be less stuff done Because of that that issue. I'm sure our people coming back will work just as hard But you just don't have that many of them as you would so we're gonna be down about 20 And people should have a right to know that and know why and this is a contract issue also. It is a contract issue and There was the ability for this not to happen, but Again contract stuff being contract stuff. It is what it is I don't think anybody had a problem with the lifeguards, but when you're paying Bridge attendance a wage such as that and they normally work very many more hours and an eight-hour shift You end up it becomes a scheduling nightmare for DPW because then we are double and triple time Of course are always open on the weekends and holidays, which we'd be multiples of their hourly wage So it's a it's a difficult task for Bill and his crew I just wanted to give it let the public understand that if you see a weed here and there that you normally don't see during the Year, that's probably why Thank You president Gisha Alderman bow. Thank you. Mr. Mayer. I was actually just gonna comment on what President Gisha said that They could be coming in at Schedule X, which would be a fair part-time wage with no benefits and instead The same work is going to be done by someone making two and three times the amount That the work that the market would say the work is worth So again as you march toward November remember that Thank You Alderman bow Alderman longman. Thank you your honor I Agree with older been Rin Plesh A couple of weeks ago we turned down the four firefighters And I don't know in my mind either we have a hiring freeze or we don't have a hiring freeze I think if we council would when they adopt these hiring freezes Taking the consideration that some serious things can be caused because of it and We all voted for the hiring freeze we adopted it and now it seems like every little while we're being asked to lift the hiring freeze so I can't support this document. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman Wagerman Alderman boron Thank you, man. Ryan If I understood director bitner correctly The money that was transferred was in a public works account, but it's being transferred over to another account So that money was budgeted to public works This this this money that we talked about a couple of weeks ago about hiring the firefighters Is a gen is in the general fund It does not had necessarily have the fire department's name on it If we would have transferred the money from the general fund to the fire department for the four individuals Then it would become fire department money This money that we're talking about for public works is in public works budget already. It has their name on it We're just switching it to a different account. So just want that clarification Thank you alderman boron president kisha Thank you, honor. I just want to comment and all the person Wongam and makes a good point. It's been brought up before Regarding do we have a hiring freeze or don't we have a hiring freeze? We have a hiring freeze But the hiring freeze if you read the resolution allows for exceptions Uh, I wrote it and I did that because I don't believe in zero tolerance policies You have to use your best judgment and you have to have options available And this is precisely the case why you would have an option available for lifeguards at a uh At a municipal uh swimming area also It uh the the basic purpose of the hiring freeze Was that any additional hires rehires part time schedule x full time Would have the council stamp on it because of the need to keep our pay and benefit structure in line So the hiring freeze focused all these exceptions which is allowable in the ordinance it's written right in there Uh and gives the council a chance to make these decisions and have these types of discussions So the actual the ordinance is doing exactly as it was written Thank you president gisha There's no further discussion real call, please kittleson hi Montemay or i rindflash no siruk hi vander wheel i boo hi wongamon no boran i bauk hi bowers no decker hi gisha hi kanna hi kydeman hi and koth hi 13 ayes 3 noes motion carries 26-43 By alderman gisha authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2010 budget establishing appropriation for the digestion and solid thickening improvements to the wastewater treatment plant facility President gisha I won't go into great detail this but I move that the resolution be put upon its passage second And uh, pardon me. I've just been informed. We need a motion to suspend Have a second motion in a second to suspend the rules as an explanation of suspension It has to do with the timing out of the different bids and so forth Very good. Is anybody opposed to suspending the rules? Is there any opposition? If there is none rules are suspended Your honor, I move that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion and a second under discussion If there is no discussion roll call, please Clayunas hi Montemayor hi Rinflesh hi Sirich hi Vanderweel hi Lou hi Wongamon hi Boran hi Bulk hi Bowers hi Decker hi Gisha hi Hanna hi Kydeman hi Kott hi and Kittleson hi 16 ayes Motion carries 26-44 by Alderman Boran directing that all boards commissions and committees of the city of Sheboygan call an organizational meeting within 45 days of the confirmation of the mayor's appointments for the 2010-2011 council year. Alderman Boran Thank you, mayor Ryan. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second under discussion Under discussion, mayor, I was in consultation with madame city clerk on this and in the past there have been some boards and commissions that have not met at all or met very late in the year and this is kind of a housekeeping thing I believe that if for these boards and commissions and committees if they meet within 45 days and at least have an organizational meeting to elect their president and vice or their chairman and co-chairman then later on in the year if there's a reason to meet in an emergency they've at least got their officers selected and it's my understanding the initial meeting in talking with madame city clerk that the initial meeting for any of these boards and commissions when your appointments are out and confirmed any member of that committee can call the initial meeting within 45 days and then they can go from there thank you very good thank you Alderman Boran any further discussion Alderman hannah yeah just a just a quick question what happens if they don't meet yeah what do we do well another issue is is that they the new member they need to take an oath and we've over the years tried to get them to take an oath to come into the office it's fruitless to get people to come in the office so typically we want them to meet sometimes so that they can at least take the oath sure but if they don't we're not going to go and tackle them I guess both police yeah the old police for that's not what we're gonna do but this would maybe push the committees or whatever to just meet once and I think it's a great idea it's just if they don't meet we'll refer them to chief domigalski very good great any further discussion if there is none roll call please we can do it all right so let's do a uh all in favor say aye opposed motion carries uh 2645 to 2648 to be referred report of committee 5 26-49 to be referred reports of committee 6 26-50 we're going to hold for 2654 2651 and 52 to be referred 2654 we are going to take 2654 and 2650 2650 by finance recommending filing documents submitting the capital improvements commission 2010 capital improvements plan and approving the plan and 2654 by finance which is reports of committees 8 by the way by finance recommending approving the capital improvements program by the capital improvements commission for 2010 and adopting the 2010 program for implementation president geisha okay you've got a cheat sheet notes mayor I don't uh your honor I I think I'm moving to uh put the report of committee 2654 and report of committee 2650 upon their passage yes to accept and accept pardon me accept and adopt and put the report the resolution 2160910 upon its passage and that's accepting the report of officer 48609 very good do we have a second on that second we have a motion and a second under discussion attorney mclean thank you your honor if I might uh 2623 that you previously acted on 16 to nothing that really passed that resolution and adopted the capital improvements program so file yes additional documents from other committees I guess they're your honor I amend my motion to file 2650 and 2654 second we have a motion and a second to file under discussion there is none all in favor say aye opposed documents are filed thank you attorney mclean 26-55 by public protection and safety recommending amending resolution number 13-07-08 as amended which established the ambulance service in the fire department so as to reduce the minimum number of ambulance staff 24 seven from three to two ppns alderman hannah thank you mr mayor I move that the rc be accepted and adopted and the resolution he put upon its passage second we have a motion and a second under discussion alter personal mountaineer thank you mr mayor um I would like to ask um chief herman a few questions chief herman thank you chief um to vote for this would be very hard for me but I want you to answer some of my questions about the financial impact on the city of doing this the safety of the community of doing this and would any of this have to be done if we had replaced four of the seven who retired correct the statement that alderman borne made before that the money for the four fire fighters was not in the fire department budget it is in the fire department budget um to answer your question uh financial impact um we estimate between 175 and 200 calls a year we will be handled by the third ambulance um I don't plan on shutting that ambulance down for the entire year uh I'm anticipating six months at the most um so if you took half of those calls um that would have to be covered by one of our other responders orange cross or manitouk plymouth um billable amount probably somewhere between 80 and 100 thousand dollars uh collectible 40 percent of that amount would be the impact um from a public safety standpoint and this is the one that I also really struggle with back in 2007 when we put the business plan together to take over the ambulance service the first plan that I submitted was to just staff two ambulances 24 7 with a third as a backup strictly from a business standpoint that made the most financial sense the council at that time uh led by I believe alderman susha really uh held our feet to the fire and said we want you to staff three med units 24 7 the same as orange cross was doing and I'm glad that she did that um it's a much better service because of that and I think this is really where um private enterprise and public safety really collide it's those 200 calls and this was really the main reason that I as a firefighter that had been in the system for so many years really pushed for us to get into the ambulance service it was those 200 calls that we were sitting there waiting eight minutes 10 minutes 12 minutes 15 minutes sometimes over 20 minutes for an ambulance to come and it was probably because orange cross also realized that financially it didn't make sense for them to dedicate three ambulances to the city of sheboygan so they were using their third or second one to go to kohler to go to sheboygan falls to go to howards grove and to run the Milwaukee that's the same issue that we're going to run into now if we brown out that third ambulance and I do believe there will be an impact on public safety thank you chief did that answer your questions all the person went to me how about the um would we have to do this would we have to retire an ambulance even for a short time if we had been able to replace four of the seven who retired no that this is the reason that we have to do that thank you all to person month mayor alderman sir yeah thank you mayor i'm going to vote no on this too and and well i voted no on public protection safety last council meeting because i have a concern and we talk about budgets um we have a general fund which seems to be this slush fund and yet the fire department brought monies into the general fund is that right chief and then lost lost those revenues national revenues the monies uh to other servers for the city and here we're talking about reducing the ambulance servers and actually the monies there in the budget and in the general fund would it be not the simple manner to move that money from the general fund head back into the fire department and not have this kind of problem thank you all to insert all of them born thank you mayor and i'm going to probably need a clarification from director hansen on this but i don't believe that the that the money that's in the general fund the 180 thousand dollars to fund these four people is in the general fund and would have to be if we would have voted to approve the four hires a couple of weeks ago than that 180 thousand dollars my understanding in the general fund then would have been moved to the fire department budget that's uh then why were we why were we even voting i mean if you had the money in your budget then why don't you go ahead and hire the people we needed the two-thirds majority because of the hiring freeze that's what that's what you're voting on but i my understanding the monies in the general fund and it had to be moved over to because there was not a transfer of that money made at the end of last year into the fire department budget that was my understanding and then i do have a follow-up on something else that you've said um terry hansen our finance director if you can have some input on this please thank you um there was a portion of that funding that was coming from the ambulance fund into the general fund and that was the cause for the need for the budget amendment and then um otherwise if it was just within the general fund and reallocating dollars the finance committee would have had a vote on that and they could have handled that just in committee um but the main reason why the council had a vote and get three quarters was because there was funds coming from the ambulance fund to the general fund for a portion of those positions okay so so technically technically it wasn't and technically it wasn't in the fire department budget you were having to transfer ambulance funds into the general fund and then to the fire department correct there was a portion of ambulance funds yes okay so then it's incorrect to say that all of that money was already in the fire department budget majority of the money was available in the general fund and needed to be reallocated but there was a portion that was ambulance funds so okay so what I said originally was correct then all of the money was not in the fire department budget correct okay understand that chief thank you uh number two uh while orange i don't want to get into this whole ambulance discussion we're going to do that in a couple weeks but one of the thing you said is uh when orange cross had the ambulance service there was a committee supervising that that orange cross ambulance service and it's my understanding that orange cross made all of their required times while they had the service you know maybe one or two times but to say that you were waiting 10 or 12 minutes for an ambulance I think is incorrect because there was a quality assurance committee that was in place and they were meeting all of their required times it was my understanding uh the times that they needed to meet which are the same times that we need to meet for that quality assurance committee is six minutes or less response time 90 percent of the time and we were waiting for ambulances 10 15 and 20 minutes how many how many how many times dozens oh then why wasn't that brought up when you had quality insurance committee meetings because never an issue I don't believe that this is the issue we're discussing now but they were meeting their response times of 90 percent six minutes or less they did meet those times well you made it sound like they weren't if we can get the discussion back on track all the person cost place thank you Mary Ryan I'm just curious why we have a budget we voted 15 out of 16 alderman here voted on a budget 70 personnel and close a fire station then there was talk of closing two fire stations and then we not me but then it was a vote to get a half a million dollar pumper truck now we're looking at closing a fire station and taking out an ambulance we voted on 70 personnel and closing a fire station so today with this vote we're going to still close a fire station and take out an ambulance correct again why do we have a budget I am living within my budget the problem is we don't have enough paramedics on staff to staff three ambulances 24 seven if I may what what we're discussing under this resolution by public protection and safety is reducing the number of ambulances from three to two if the mandatory number of ambulances that is what is under discussion this evening alderman Bowers thank you very much this keeps coming back and back all the time and now we've been public protection and we voted to pass this resolution what happens tonight if it isn't passed if I may clarify the reason that this resolution is is up here tonight is because it came out of public protection and safety and has to be voted on by the entire council the reason that this has to be voted on by the entire council is because in the original was it an ordinance or a resolution it stated that we must staff three ambulances 24 seven that's why we're that's why this is being discussed this evening in the discussion is whether or not to mothball for x amount of time that third ambulance so it did go to public protection and safety and came to the council it's under discussion by the entire council because the entire council has to vote on it well if we vote not to pass this what happens then there isn't any money how can he put three eminences on the road and we're paying a lot of overtime obviously if that answers your question thank you alderman Bowers alderman alderperson kittleson oh thank you mayor and to reduce the minimum number of ambulances staff 24 seven from three to two i'm going to have to vote no on this as well because it's just it's simply unacceptable to me and to the citizens that i serve to reduce the number of ambulances from three to two it's unacceptable thank you alderman kittleson president kisha thank you your honor i'm going to vote yes for this because um well because it we don't really have a lot of choice uh you can't have it three ways you can't say no more staff and you can't say you want five stations open and you want three ambulances to run you can't do that that just it's impossible to do you can't say no to all those and expect there to be no repercussions now i i am comfortable with two ambulances serving the city uh the prior service provider in sheboygan had zero dedicated ambulances serving the city and i i know the response times have been far superior than we've ever seen in the city's history with quality assurance with the fire department i mean magnificently far superior and that equates to lives being saved but it's a it's a matter of a high deductible insurance policy is really what we're buying here we're having a little higher deductible insurance with two than three uh i think we can manage um in a above average above adequate way with two ambulances considering our previous experience of about 18 years was with none so uh i think two is still a an uptick in performance and expected performance of the safety of the citizens of sheboygan i think the fire department standards are very high and they're exceeding those standards but you can't you can't say no to it all and expect nothing to change that's okay if you say no or whatever it's it's all what's in your heart and what you guys want to do this body wants to do individually but then you have to realize there's a follow-up and and and change has to be made to to have happen after you say no and this is one of those changes uh and i and i will vote for yes for this because i have faith in those individuals doing the service thank you president geisha alderman rindflash thank you mr. mayor uh actually my original point was to uh clarify which you've already done so remarkably so thank you um about what not too often i get things right probably you know regarding parliamentary process so thank you for that compliment um and my name's on this document um not willingly because as you know i support keeping five stations open which also leads to three ambulances and so on with the four hires however though the six that voted uh not to hire these are the consequences of that and as you said if we don't approve this and we force the fire state staff fire department staff three ambulances our overtime costs are going to go through absolutely through the roof i don't even think that it's going to be possible even with overtime we're you know we're going to fire firefighters who are never sleeping at all or not going to have any family time at all or anything so unfortunately i'm going to support this document because of that but again for the chief to know with a heavy heart and it's not because i think it's it's the right thing to do i think it's we now have to do it that makes the most sense and i'll follow the direction thank you thank you all the memory inflation all the men about thank you mr mayor just a quick question chief so if we go down to two full time there are 175 to 200 calls that would be covered by orange cross they would be in effect our third ambulance that would be in a full year if we shut it down for the full year i i might plan on browning it out on the days when there are two paramedics off on vacation okay and what response time will the current agreement with them now that they're not our primary ambulance service do they still have to meet 90 of those calls within six minutes is that still the terms that our relationship is with them i don't know that that issue's been discussed specifically but i would think that that still applies the question is which station will they be responding out of but i would think that they would still have to live by that okay the future chair of public protection and safety i bet might want that answer within a couple of weeks so why don't we explore that and then secondly to determine my vote on this mr mayor just another quick question for director hanson a few weeks ago we were going through scenarios and one of the scenarios was don't hire the four replacement firemen get out of the ambulance business and i thought at the time you said the net net on that would have been a loss of about 180 thousand dollars is that still the case terry i believe it is around 225 when the numbers are coming out but i haven't looked at it in a while because we just went through our audit so i'm not as brushed up as i was going to be for the upcoming okay sure but in a 35 million dollar a year budget we're talking somewhere in the 200 000 a year loss if we uh we didn't hire the four we get out of the ambulance business all together we save ourselves all these dialogue and we get the ambulance service back to orange cross it's around a 200 000 savings second sorry a 200 000 loss that we have to find and make up i i'd say probably about 225 250 okay and i'm trying to remember back okay to what the number on scale that's that we're in the right proportion so that's something we very might as a as a future body may want to consider is let's just get out of it uh and and then find what the right size chief then thank you director hanson follow on question for the chief we're not in the ambulance business anymore and you're at the current staffing level um what's the right staffing level if we're out of the ambulance business do you need all the firemen you have now if you're not in the ambulance business anymore how many stations do you want to open um four at least call it four so right what we have now no browning out just close it down um the current staffing level would be sufficient for four but you have to remember you have to reduce me by four people that that ambulance is paying for in addition to the 200 and right and that was part of why it's only 250 ish thousand dollars because we got rid of four more people so today minus four does that adequately staff you to manage four uh four fire department four the stations i'd have to look would be real tight okay but it's doable something for this future body the future members to consider thanks chief um i have a feeling this will probably be discussed by the new council at one point or another ornament sir yeah i question i have again is that the ambulance service did generate monies i don't use word revenue we'd say it's profit and i went into general fund and now i can't understand why that money can't go back to fire but it's kind of like give me your money to the bank and say when you need it you can't have it back i mean we have a need here and it's a very good one i disagree i think i think the ambulance service and fire service fit together like a glove when you have an auto accident you need an ambulance there the fire need an ambulance there it's great to have when i fire but the question again is why can't the fire department get their money back and use it to say but say some service thank you thank you alderman sirk um alderman balk thank you i i can answer my friend just to follow on sirk's question um one thing for me is that uh why they do fit hand and glove but what i learned in the negotiations of the last year is that public firemen are really really expensive and uh we may be able to run it better for our taxpayers if we let the private sector manage the ambulance business and i was intimately involved in the business case that established the ambulance service so i can answer alderman sirk's question the reason that money goes into the general fund is because that was a promise made by the fire persons that put forth that business case was we're not doing this to grow our own rice bowl we are doing this to do what's right for the city we are doing this to generate funds for the city we don't want those monies to come back for us because then it looks like we're doing this for self-serving reasons and that we could grow our own empire uh so that's why the money doesn't uh go into the fire fund it goes into the general fund because that was their wishes that was they wanted to generate funds for the city and my mind has been changed based on my negotiation experience to think that in the long run i don't think it's the best thing for the city anymore whereas three years ago as a naive new alderman i thought it did thank you thank you alderman balk alderman bowers thank you uh you made a comment if we uh don't pass this tonight uh it goes we pay him overtime well that comes out of the general fund too does it the overtime or does that uh no the overtime will come out of the fire department budget until they're out of money and then they're going to have to get money out of the general fund correct yes so because if we have a mandate that they will have x amount of ambulances staffed we will have to pay overtime if we don't have sufficient personnel to staff them we are the the common council made the rules that we will have three ambulances and so yes the fire department will use their overtime budget until that is gone and then they will come before the common council and request more money out of the general fund in order to staff overtime all right i think he had answers it thank you alderman bowers alderman rinflash one last time yes thank you um just response was a question regarding orange cross and their backup um unless there is some kind of mutual assistance agreement right now uh that they would provide backup service with us we disbanded the ambulance oversight committee as a council it doesn't exist anymore correct we don't have a contract as far as i'm concerned with cross to provide service to the city within a certain time frame i think they're it's at will if they're mutual assistance agreement to help out or not but i don't think that necessarily has to follow those very specific guidelines if i'm wrong i'm wrong but i know what we did was we voted disband that that oversight committee does not exist anymore thank you alderman rinflash okay we have no more lights on this issue if i may just have some input and this is not directed at a vote one way or the other on on on the ambulance issue this evening um just to give everybody a little history i mean the common council voted i believe three years ago to start the ambulance service um we've invested a lot of money into the ambulance service the ambulance service whether you like it or not takes fire department staff that a lot of times would not have would not be actively working because there's only so much you can do when your primary duty is firefighting and it puts them in a revenue generating system which is called the ambulance we have the staff to do it um how the this subject has gotten so turned around now myself i was on the common council and the ambulance was service was passed i voted against it but there seems to be an issue that just goes round and round in circles and i'm looking forward to the new common council addressing the issue addressing it head on cutting out the political sideline that is that is going on here and coming up with some answers we can't continue to go round and round and round on a subject and make no decisions if you're going to say no to one thing there's repercussions if you say yes there's also repercussions and everybody knows what those are yet we seem to go around around in circles so i'm looking forward to the new council coming on board taking on this issue head on and coming up with some some solid long-term answers alderman boran thank you mayor thank you for your comments the reason why we're going to have this discussion with the new council is because six alder persons had the courage not to go along with hiring these new people until we had a further discussion of the issue and part of that discussion is going to be the scenarios that our finance director comes forward with had i had more information three weeks ago i may have voted to hire before but i said we did not have the information at that time we still don't have the information and that and whoever is our new committee of the whole chairman i hope calls a meeting within a week or so so that director hanson can give his scenarios so that this council can move forward on either hiring these four staying in the ambulance business getting out of the ambulance business but let's have the discussion in a week or so and i don't see this as politics at all i just see this as a wise use of taxpayer money i don't see any politics involved in at all at least not from my standpoint there's not thank you thank you alderman boran okay but the question at hand is uh resolution number uh 26 55 or rc number 26 55 resolution 130708 as amended uh we're all out of lights roll call please everybody know what you're voting on repeat please yes you repeat it just for uh you're just voting to accept and adopt the rc and pass the resolution which as you read what it is okay thank you the resolution authorizes the chief to idle idle in the ambulance as needed okay montemay or no rin flash excuse me sir rick no vander wheel i voo i longamen i boran i bauk i bowers i decker no gisha hi hannah hi heidemann hi kath no kittleson no clayunas hi 11 eyes five nose motion carries okay onward and upward uh ordinances introduce 10 26-56 by alderman gisha amending repealing and recreating various sections of the municipal code so as to merge the sheboygan commission on fair housing practices and the board of housing appeals into a new board of housing appeals and fair housing practices alderman gisha thank you your honor again i'd like to thank attorney mclean for doing some cleanup work so that we don't have committees with 3500 people on them as i originally had proposed thanks for catching that attorney mclean and uh just kind of push together the composition we need to suspend the rules on this one too uh motion to suspend second motion to suspend in a second um obviously because this is the end of the council year and we're going to be passing these these new committees um any opposition to suspending the rules if there is none rules are suspended president gisha thank you your honor uh i moved that the general ordinance be put upon its passage second motion to second on the general ordinance under discussion attorney mclean uh thank you your honor i just want to make a comment there are a number of pages to this ordinance uh that should not stress you uh it's really no substantive change it's all procedural changes to merge the two committees so it's a lot of terminology changing in a number of different sections of the code but there's no substantive changes uh as to the roles of the board of housing appeals and the commission on fair housing practices they're just now one committee thank you attorney mclean any further discussion if there is no roll call please rinflash hi suric hi vander wheel hi voo hi longerman hi boran hi bow bowers hi decker hi gisha hi hannah hi heidemann hi kahn hi kittleson hi clioness hi and montemayor hi 16 i's motion carries um 26-57 through 63 to be referred matters laid over 11 25 83 our own number 484-09-10 by the city clerk submitting as a matter of record information received from carol lutz regarding the dates for rockets for schools as being may 6 7th and 8th 2010 i'm looking for a motion to accept and file so moved second motion the second to accept and file under discussion there is none all in favor say aye opposed motion carries 25-89 resolution number 215-09-10 by alderperson gisha authorizing executing an agreement with a com technical services incorporated to provide consulting engineering services relating to infrastructure upgrade of sidewalk gap filling president gisha thank you your honor i move that the resolution be put upon its passage second we have a motion and a second under discussion alderperson clioness thank you your honor i just have a question that um will the services from a com be paid for by the shaboin county non-mortarized transportation fund will that be incorporated that's the city have to take on that even though it's the same project they don't um i don't know the answer to that could i ask uh paulette enders sitting down paulette city director of development paulette enders coming to the podium thank you it is being covered by the non-motorized transportation funding thank you so thank you paulette any further discussion and thank you jean if there is none roll call please sirak vander wheel aye voo aye wangaman aye boran aye paulk aye bowers aye decker aye gisha aye hannah aye heidemann aye hot aye hiddleston aye clioness aye montemayor aye and rindflash 16 ayes motion carries 25-77 general ordinance number 60-09-10 by alderperson kiddelson amending section one of general ordinance number 93-07-08 so as to freeze the mayor's salary at the current annual rate for the period may 2010 through april 2011 alder person kiddelson thank you mayor i'd ask for a motion to put the ordinance upon its passage please second under discussion under discussion we thank you very much for raising your salary thank you to let you know this is not the council being nasty i uh i requested this so and thank you for sponsoring it at alderperson kiddelson you bet we appreciate it i want to apologize for alderperson hi to me any further discussion or snide remarks if there are none roll call please excuse me vander wheel aye voo aye wangaman aye boran aye paulk aye bowers aye decker aye gisha aye hannah aye heidemann aye conk no kiddelson aye pliunas aye montemayor aye rindflash aye and saruk aye 15 ayes one no motion carries other matters authorized by law 26-64 will be referred to the public works committee of the new council 26-65 also going to public works committee of the new council 26-66 a resolution by alderperson kiddelson authorizing the appropriate city officials to enter into a lease amendment with malt scoop corporation alderperson kiddelson thank you mayor i would ask for a motion to put the resolution upon its passage second we have a motion in a second under discussion under discussion i guess i would like to refer to uh our city attorney steve bequeen who can kind of explain the lease agreement i believe this was with the duke of devon you can explain further thank you attorney mclean thank you your honor uh yes this relates to the duke of devon several years ago now they uh they talked about adding a deck onto their premises uh we had discussions about amending the lease to allow for a deck to be added onto their property uh the deck was built without the lease being entered into uh so in effect they were encroaching on city city property there uh came to light again when the recently they requested a sign permit the plan commission approved the sign permit permit contingent on this lease amendment being executed uh the the malt scoop is the llc that runs the duke of devon they have agreed to this now but this was never approved by council several years ago we proposed that to them and kind of sat limbo for several years so now uh in order to get things moving we're asking that it be acted on now thank you attorney mclean under discussion alderman bowers thank you once again we don't have an address i thought this was on new jersey avenues though obviously this isn't right it's down the riverfront the the duke of devon yeah that's but by reading this i would never know this i would think was on new jersey avenue there's no address on any of these again there's some way we can get addresses on these documents that come before yeah i'll work on that alderman bowers this this was a draft that about two or three years ago and that's you know i updated the dates but i didn't think to put in any addresses in here so this this was done before the uh before the request for addresses was uh was as prevalent as it is now i should comment that this does proportionately increase the rent the rent uh as many of the shanties down there is currently 1200 a year it increases at pro rata to 1350 dollars a year okay thank you alderman bowers and attorney mclean any further discussion there is no roll call please boo hi wangaman hi boran hi falk hi bowers hi decker hi gisha hi hannah hi idemen hi kittleson hi clayunas hi montemay or hi rindflash hi surik hi and vanderwhip hi 16 motion carries other matters authorized by law attorney mclean mclean mclean mclean 2667 is an aroh by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending june 30 2010 and june 30 2011 that will go to the law and licensing committee of the new council 2668 is a resolution authorizing the purchasing agent tender into agreement for the sale of the 1996 fierce heavy rescue vehicle to the village of cedar grove wisconsin fire department and that will go to the finance committee of the new council before we adjourn this evening i would like to wholeheartedly thank everybody for a uh what do we call it a very interesting year it was uh we've had a lot of challenges on this council i personally had a lot of challenges and i think we all did um however we made it through a year and i'm looking forward to the next year tomorrow evening is the first meeting of the new common council again i would like to thank all the persons clayunas surik and voo for their service to the city thank you very much motion to adjourn signing day second motion to adjourn signing day in a second all in favor say aye opposed thank you everybody