 With your help, we can continue to fight for freedom. This is not possible without your generosity. Join our quest for the truth and our freedom. Simply visit www.realitycheck.radio forward slash donate to make a difference today. Right, now it's time for an audience favorite, Cam's Buddies. This week we'll find out what they think about the government moving to ban gang patches. Can they do it? Will it work? And what about civil liberties and free expression? Our producer has them all lined up and ready to go. Let's go now to Cam's Buddies. Hi, Linnley, welcome to Cam's Buddies. Hello, Cam, how's things? Fantastic. Oh, that's good. Hey, we've got lots of good feedback from your letter last week to Grant Robertson. Lots of messages, so that was very well received. Yeah, well, it was a bit sad to have to say it, but I need to speak on behalf of all the people that have suffered the same fate. Yeah, and, you know, that was the message that we got from the listeners and it was heartfelt and it certainly had my tears rolling down my face. So anyway, we've got a happier note this week. We've got, I want to put to you a question about the government making moves this week to ban gang patches. Do you think it'll work? What about civil liberties issues with freedom of expression and those sorts of things? I'm keen to get your thoughts on these gang patches and these ratbags who wear them. All right, well, the freedom of expression and all that stuff, that's actually sort of under the Bill of Rights, isn't it? And it did fail with Michael Laws, ultimately, and I guess these gang people backed by heaps of money will go through the courts. I expect that to happen. I don't think it will work for a lot of reasons, but I do credit the coalition government for having a go. That's good. But in my opinion, this is all about money. And there are many ways to make money and crime is one of them. It's a magnificent racket. I mean, you don't have to have education. You don't have to abide by regulations or anything at all, not even rent, nothing. You just get in there and throw your weight around and where you go. And gangs are crime organizations in a big way. And the incentive is millions of tax and regulation-free dollars, millions and millions and millions. And they've got no education, but they are rat-coming. Yeah, they are. Well, yeah, I agree with you. And it raises an interesting question that if they're not participating in civil society because they're criminals, because they're visiting their drugs upon various different people and they're committing crimes against their neighbors and everybody else, do they actually get to have civil liberties or do we have to wait till we catch them, convict them, stick them in jail and then take away their civil liberties? And so it seems that we're trying to say, well, we can't take away their gang patches because they've got a right to wear them for freedom of expression. But the general population has a right to live without crime. Surely that trumps their little jackets with their little embroidered patches on them. That is correct. And of course, the problem is it's not the gang itself, it's the crime that sort of spreads out from it and goes right through the community. Absolutely terrible. The methamphetamine racket is huge. And it affects so many people and they lure in these stupid young youth and run them clean off the rails as well. Although a lot of them, to be fair, sort of going to go that way anyway. But one or two of them actually have reasonable sort of parents and tea up with other kids and they're in, and their lives are wasted. But it's, as you say, with civil liberties, well, what about your home being safe and not worrying about it being burgled because somebody wants to pinch some things that can go back to the gang and be cashed in for methamphetamine, you know? Yeah, well, I mean, that's what's happening. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Maybe we need to, I mean, this is just a small thing, gang patches, there needs to be a more systemic approach to dealing with crime. There's a breakdown in families. There's the inability of Kiwi citizens to adequately defend themselves. We get told, oh, that's all right, call 111. But let's say you live in the country, out on a remote rural area, some guy rocks up starting to steal your sheep or your four-wheel drive or your motorbike or whatever. You ring the police, they could be over an hour away. And so you live. Oh, you can't even get them on the phone half the time. And, you know, I wanted to report something there was a car left out on the beach early one morning and I thought, well, I'll just pop through Amberley and I wrote the number down of the car because very odd to have a car way out on the beach. And I'll drop it into the police station. Well, when I got there at nine o'clock and nobody there at all, it's all shut up, locked cobwebs on the door, police car outside making us believe that there's police there, but there's not. That must be the case right around New Zealand. But I've just got one really interesting figure here somewhere, here we are, 33 gangs in New Zealand. And they're now over 9,000 members, there's 10 and a half thousand police. Now, if they all united, you know, if they had the brains to do that, if they all united, they could actually and go to one venue, they could actually mow the police over now. The trouble is, is if brains were dynamite, they wouldn't have enough to blow their nose. Probably not, probably not. But my word, they're cunning. They're cunning all right, but they're not, they're not bright cause they keep getting caught. And so, the way I'm looking at it is, the gang patches is just one thing. I think, you know, we need to stop this woke, crim-hugging there, there, it's cause you're breastfed, not bottle-fed or some other malarkey that they come up with. We actually need to address crime at the lowest level and bubble that up so that we take an interest in absolutely every level of crime. When you take all these ram raids, that was all gang related, you know, the gangs were organizing that. That's right. But they got away with it. People weren't allowed to intervene. If people intervened, the police said, oh, we could arrest you. You know, they got it sort of, excuse my language, but the police have it asked backwards. They're victimizing citizens who are trying to do the job they refuse to do. Yeah, well, that's easy meat, you know. I mean, actually going after the criminals and catching them can be a bit scary these days because, I mean, they've nearly all got knives and oh, well, they did away with guns, didn't they? But the guns are all in the wrong hands. And, you know, a friend of mine said, a friend of mine said, that's a joke. You can go down to the wharf at Littleton in the middle of the night. And depending what country the ship came from, you just go there and get your guns and away you go. You know, that's the thing, the government passed all these gun laws and all they did is take guns off law abiding citizens. And then they've constricted this entire massive white elephant of an organization that makes people like me, who's a collector, they make our life a living misery. You know, their presumption when we have any interaction with them is that we're guilty. And yet there's criminals out there with unregistered guns doing whatever they want, and a gun registered is not gonna stop them having, no gang members handed any guns in. No, and they've got heaps of guns, absolutely heaps of them. But I think just from a different perspective, because I know the guys will come up, you know, with a lot of other stuff, I think until the authorities realize that this is actually the most fantastic business model in the world, and get into cracking that, they're not actually gonna make any progress because there's such huge money to be made. And as I said, they don't have to honor any regulations or taxes or anything at all. They've got free labor because they just recruit the, you know, the young ones that they're bringing in, they get them to do all the stealing. They don't have to pay anybody. And you compare that with trying to set up a decent business yourself, you know, there's no comparison whatsoever. You've got health and safety, you've got compliance costs, you've got, you know, employment issues, it's a nightmare. Gangs don't have any of that, do they? They just, if they've got a child with some employee, they just shoot them in the back of their head. Oh, well, you know, it's just easy and life is cheap, you know. But it goes on all over the world in different forms, from the mafia to the drug cabals and all the rest of it. They're all sort of the same. They do do one or two useful things, I must say, for fraught people. They collect debts for them, don't they? They set up insurance jobs and burn hay sheds down and intimidate witnesses for people. They do all sorts of things. They do do that. It seems to me that we just need politicians, sorry, we just need politicians with a will to actually not cave in to all the wambles that think that it's all because they had a hard life being brought up in a solo parent family or some other excuse that they always trot out. I mean, you know, we've got Galrez Garam and he says, oh, I was feeling stressed, so I felt the need to go around stealing, you know. Not half as stressed as somebody who actually can't afford to buy a cardigan. Well, that's right. Very expensive cardigan. No, she's a criminal and sometimes, I think, maybe parliament in the long distant future is headed for instead of trying to build a new prison, they should just put a big security fence around parliament and take the ones out that are honest. They could sort of entertain them down at the local cafe and lock all the others in parliament and you'd have a new prison because I've never known so many criminals to be in parliament. Yeah, that's right. So that's kind of another issue, but no, I think that with this thing, until they get into how you can stop these people from making such a fortune with no effort whatsoever, they're not going to make any progress at all. You can take patches off or the, it's their jacket, isn't it, really? Yeah. Pull their jackets off and I'll tell you what, I won't be putting my name forward to go up and take one off them. No, but I mean, maybe one way to reduce crime is for the government to introduce the Castle Doctrine. Have you heard of that? No. There's some laws in Florida's got the Castle Doctrine and Texas has got it, I think, and that is that your home is your castle and you can defend it any way you see fit. And if somebody's inside your house, you can shoot them because you're defending your castle. Well, I think that's a good idea. That's how it should be. And, you know, I can't even put an electric fence at the gate because I might sting somebody. Yeah, well, put a ball fence in there and really sting them. A bed pit would be good. I'd probably run into it myself. I always thought sharpening stakes and landmines was a good idea. I don't know. They're pretty cunning because the heads of these gangs, they don't go out and do the things, you know? No, they sit there and bank all the money. And you're right, the police need to concentrate on the business model and taking the cash away. So it's interesting to see Stuart Nash throwing some of his labor mates under the bus by saying, well, I wanted to make the limit. Instead of confiscations being for things that are over $30,000, I wanted to make it $0, so we took everything. And Kerry Yellen, who was the Justice Minister, said, oh, we're not doing that because that would be racist. Yes, I know. She should know all about crime and everything. She's certainly an expert in the field. But Stuart Nash, you know, I actually was, I like you, I surprised that he actually will almost snitched on his other Labour Party people. And then I thought, well, you can't expect much else because he had a professional snitcher, you know, in charge, Jacinda Ardern, she encouraged everybody to dop somebody in, didn't she? She was a snitch in chief. What a great title. She obviously never went to a school where, I mean, when I was at school, we had a saying, snitches get stitches. Oh, okay. Nobody doped at my school. There were no doppers at my school. You doped, you got a hiding. Well, I'll tell you what, I've worked at the freezing works and if you doped anybody in there, well, you probably wouldn't live to see the next day. There'd be a terrible accident with a meat hook. There'd be a terrible accident, but of course it never happened, you know. No, it's all nothing. Because, you know, it's that sort of strength through, strength through power sort of thing or peace through strength, whatever you like to call it. Peace through superior firepower. Yes, well, that would be good, but I'm not allowed a gun, so I can't do that one. Well, you can get one. You can go and get a license. I'll help you get a license. Oh, I've got a friend having to vouch for her daughter at the moment and what a performance, I mean, honestly. Oh, no, it's 36 pages of Palava. Oh, and I mean, why wouldn't you want to be a gang member? You know, they don't have to do any of this stuff at all. No, they just ask the gang boss for a gun. They go, bro, take that. That's right. Easy for them, but not for us. No, and, you know, as far as they're concerned, there's easy money to be made and by how they're going to make it. So I can't see how the patches will, you know, it makes us feel better, but we're not the gangs, are we? No, well, I don't think it. I mean, I'm not afraid of gang members. I never have been used to tease them mercilessly with them when they turn up at the church with their patches on and stuff like that. But, you know, that's just me. There's plenty of people and I understand why they are afraid because they're intimidating, but I just used to say to these guys at the church, oh, this guy said to me, oh, you're not afraid of me, are you? He said, I'm in the tribesman gang. And I said, oh, well, you're not that tough. And he said, what do you mean? I said, well, you let someone scribble all over your face. Oh, yes. He just cracked up and laughed at me. He said, well, you're not afraid. I said, no, I'm not afraid of you, mate. And I had a good old chat with them, you know? But not everyone can do that. You know, they can't go... No, well, I definitely would not like to chat with one. I mean, I've got a fright one day at BP and one of those guys came in from the man-up movement. And he had a leather jacket on with this great big circle thing on the back. And, you know, I was looking for the exit, I can tell you. And then I read it and I thought, well, hang on, that's not actually a bikey. You know, that's something else. And then later on, they turned up at the gym and they had t-shirts with... And on the back, it had teaching men to be fathers. And I thought, well, that's a good idea. Yeah, I've spoken a lot to Brian Tamaki about that man-up program. And boy, I've got a lot of respect for what he's able to do with those guys. He's converting gang members into valuable members of society that treat their families properly. Oh, it's absolutely outstanding. And the first thing they teach them is take responsibility, no matter what their culture report is, no matter how bad that is, they actually have to take responsibility for their life. And that's where it starts. But, you know, if I saw any sort of... And they say, you know, it's targeting Maori's, well, if I saw a Maori bloke big and tough wearing leather and all that insignia on it and that, I'll tell you what, I've never had anything to do with gang members, but I would run a mile. I don't want to be near anybody like that, you know? But I'm really, really lucky that, you know, there's just not that presence here. Well, not that you can see. They just get on with whatever they do. Yeah, yeah. Well, Linnie, thank you for that. Anyway, no... I'll get on with the boys and see what they've got to say. And I would bet they've got a pretty similar perspective to you. Oh, well, that'd be interesting. I'll be listening. All right. Thanks for your call, Linnie. Thanks, Cam. OK. OK, bye-bye. Bye-bye. Good evening, Jack. Welcome to Cam's Buddies. Hi, Cam. So, you might have seen news that the government is moving to ban gang patches. Do you think it'll work? Yes. Yeah, how? Well, I think the average person who's looking at this and saying, oh, yeah, that's not going to work, are probably looking at a photo camera in places like that where these gangs hang out and there's only one or two elderly constables sitting there. And of course, it's not going to work with them. But if I remember rightly, don't the police have a strike force against gangs? I don't know whether it's still in existence. Well, they'll have to bring that back in. And what they'll do is they'll wait till there's some tangy or something like that and then they'll hit them in force and destroy their bikes and take off their patches and do whatever. They won't do it. Do you think the government has got the wherewithal to do that? The steel that's required to actually confront the gangs? I'm pretty sure the police minister, Mark Mitchell, does. But I'm not sure the rest of the quivering ninnies that sit there in parliament will cope with such an activity. Well, we'll just have to wait and see, won't we? They can't do any worse than the Labour government. I mean, after the day's news about the other police minister who wanted to do this and then was vetoed by his fellow Labour ministers. Yeah, he threw them under the bus, didn't he? He wanted to make the threshold for confiscation of assets. It was set at 30,000. He wanted to make it zero. So we take everything off them if they're caught committing a crime. And the Wombles and the Labour Party said, oh, no, that's racist. We can't do that. I know. Exactly. What about civil liberties considerations? You know, the right to freedom of expression that you can wear a dopey hat or a nice little crocheted embroidered patch on the back of your leather jacket. Isn't there some civil liberties expectations there that everybody has the right to do those things? Speaking to the wrong person for an opinion on that. That's why I'm asking you. You better ask someone else. I'm not work. No, I don't believe. I mean, I put this to Linley. I said to her, if you're not a member, a contributing member of society and being law abiding and all those other sorts of things that go with living in a civil society, then haven't you abrogated your rights to be treated like an ordinary citizen? And if you're a criminal and you're wearing a uniform of a criminal, because that's basically what it is these gangs are just creating uniforms. They're not like the Boy Scouts or Girl Guides or whatever they call them these days who are doing actually good things. These people are criminals and they're doing bad things. And haven't they abrogated their right to be able to wear what they please? Absolutely, I'm 100% with you on that. But this is just treating a symptom though, isn't it? We need to have a more systemic approach to crime fighting rather than just taking off their patches. No, destroying your motorbikes is the best thing. Because if that sort of tracks all the youngsters, all the bling and so forth, get rid of it. Well, they're systematically removed for themselves to be able to sell more. Yeah, well, I mean, the thing is they ride Harley Davidson's and those things don't go around corners. So they tend to remove themselves from the gene pool eventually. Yes, but not quick enough. Maybe we need to put something in the petrol then. Like what? Diesel. I don't know, an explosive. Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah, I've got no time for any of them. Yeah, I'm sorry, I've got no time for gang members at all. Yeah, they don't add anything to society, do they? Yeah, but get Willie Appy out of how he's retired. Yeah, go ahead. Get Willie Appy out of how he's retired and a couple of his mates and second them to the police. They only need about three of them to deal with every gang member in the whole of New Zealand. That all is gone. There's nine... You wouldn't even know where. Yeah, there's 9,000 gang members, but I reckon if you just said to some of those boys or maybe get some, you know, Chechen mercenaries or something like that, fly them in, give them three names each and sort it out over a weekend. Yeah, it wouldn't be a fair sort of match, would it? Well, I mean, the gang members have all got guns, but whether they can use them is another matter. Against the SAS, that'll be useless. They'd be gone on the flash if they had the authority to do it. Yeah, instead we sit there and go, oh, but they were breastfed. Oh, but they didn't get enough love and attention when they were children. Oh, you know, we need to understand that it's because of colonialism. Oh, and then whatever the next excuse is. Yeah, well, you and I both don't subscribe to that, so there you are. No, and neither does this government, and that's where a lot of these screaming heritons out there who are catawalling about, you know, protecting the rights of the criminal. They don't understand that the vast majority of New Zealanders want to see criminals in prison and their assets taken and them smashed. And we don't care. Well, death will be preferable. Be cheaper. Prison, you have to keep paying the money. Well, they should make them work, you know, actually bring back hard labour or even medium labour. I want to see Changan. Changan's on the side of the motorway would be a good sight as you're just calling past the five Ks and the average speed on the southern motorway. And they can all wear pink, you know, jumpsuits or something, something suitably terrible with a little arrows on them. It'd be a bit of a view than the orange road cones, wouldn't it? That'd be wonderful. Well, there's a thought. What about you never going to happen on the road? That'd be wonderful. We could use them as road cones, maybe. We could. We could. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. We'll get in trouble, Jack. We keep on this track. I'll get the producer giving me the cutthroat signal. You know, cut it off. You can't say these things. Well, anyway. I'd be saying what people think. I know. Exactly. All right, Jack, thanks for your contribution this week. And we'll talk again next week. See you later. See you. Welcome to Cam's Buddies, Jimmy. G'day, Cameron. How are you this week? I'm giving you the same answer I give every week. I'm fantastic, even if I'm not. I'm fantastic. Good. Now, what's your topic this week, mate? Right. So you might have seen the government has moved to ban gang patches. And I'm just wondering whether you think that'll work, whether it won't. What are the civil liberties implications and do we care? I think it's fantastic. I certainly hope it works. It seems to have worked in Australia because all the gangs have moved into the ACT where there's all the woke liberals who won't implement that law. And I just think it'll be a matter of the police implementing the law properly, having the zones to do it. Well, they need to get a new commissioner who's actually going to do some policing. I mean, I've heard that within the police ranks, Costa is known as the Lenten. He's very bright, but he has to be carried. I haven't heard the same thing. But I think that the patch, you know, any criminal enterprise should be illegal to associate together. These gangs aren't businesses. They're dealing serious drugs. You know, we've got a serious meth problem, and it's all fueled by the gangs, whether they're 501s or whether they're localised. It doesn't matter. They should be targeted and harassed. Life should be made really hard for them. If you don't pay your tax bill, your life gets made really hard for you by the IRD. Why should the gangs have any difference in terms of they'd need to be harassed by the state? How come lefties don't care about people getting harassed by IRD, but they care so much about the police harassing people who deal meth? Yeah. Make it make sense, Cameron? Yeah, this is... What about... Did you see what Nashie did throwing Labour ministers under the bus? And he wanted to toughen up the asset seizures. Instead of having a $30,000 limit on how much they could have, he wanted it set at zero, so he could take everything off them. And Kerry Ellen opposed that and said that it would be racist. We can't do that. And his answer to them to her was, well, we're not actually specifying the race of people. We're saying that if criminals do this, we'll take their assets. And in Hipkins, back to Kerry Ellen. Yeah, because he's woke. She's a woke. She's in front of the Jew and Court for the other stuff. I mean, good on Nashie for being brave enough to speak out. I mean, what the hell has it got to do with race? It's about being a criminal. Doesn't matter what the race of the criminal is. If you're dealing meth... Particularly if it's Mary Gangnam is dealing with to marry kids. I mean, it's even more horrendous, you know? So, good on Nashie. And this boy didn't really fit into the new labor because he was just a bit non-woke. Yeah, he's still confiscated our guns though. So I don't have a lot of sympathy for Nashie, to be fair. Because, I mean, he took guns off law-abiding citizens. Didn't take any off the gang members. No, I agree with you on that. That was just a massive reaction to a huge tragedy. You know, and that's just politicians earning points, you know, without actually thinking about the reality of things. But we need to get hard on gangs. I've been around Auckland for a long time and never used to see them. And now I see them almost daily. They're at the cafe and, you know, they're mixing with the locals. It just shouldn't be accepted that these people live off misery. They do a little bit of... You know, I asked Lynne about whether she thought the Castle Doctrine, having Castle Doctrine laws would be useful for combating crime. And she didn't know what that was. You know what Castle Doctrine is, don't you? Yes, I do. It's very good law in Texas, mate, and it seems to work quite well there. And in Florida. So, yeah, it's a good system in Florida. Do we need to have that here? Do you think that we should have the right to defend our castle using whatever means necessary? If someone's on our property, in our property, that we have the right to defend ourselves any way that we see fit? I agree with it in principle. But there is a lot of loose cannons out there. What about people who are going to shoot some people that are lost? It's a very complicated problem, mate. But if someone's breaking into your property and being aggressive and your life's in danger, then you should be able to defend yourself. Without fear of prosecution from the police who decided that all of a sudden the criminal who was trying to get at you is the innocent party and you're the bad guy because you stopped them. Yeah, well, that's just absolute madness. I just don't know how that came about. I mean, that's just... But, you know, we've seen horrendous break-in crimes, you know, particularly on farmer's land and, you know, rural parts of New Zealand, Taranaki and that. And they should be able to defend themselves because the cops can't get there. It's just... It just should have quite, I guess, have a clear criteria of how it gets prescribed. But, yeah. They should apply it to rural areas first and see how we go with that. And if it works, then we can start moving it inwards towards the centre of each city. LAUGHTER Well, you know, all the woke suburbs would get burgled like there'd be no guns there. Well, that's what happened in the US. Yeah, that's right. The crime started targeting where they knew there wouldn't be guns. Yeah, I mean, that's why people go and shoot up schools in the United States because all the woke schoolteachers declared every school a gun-free zone. And the criminals went, woohoo! Cool. I can go and shoot up a school. I'm not going to get anybody shooting back at me. Well, I don't know. It's pretty crazy to go and shoot up a school. You mean to the elder she's to deal with in the US? Absolutely, but they're everywhere. But here's the thing, right? Nobody has ever shot up a gun range. Why is that? LAUGHTER There's been a few shots going off in the gun range, man. I've seen people get suspended before. I've seen somebody shoot themselves at a gun range. It was not pleasant. LAUGHTER No, all the people watching probably. Anyway, we've wandered off the topic, Cameron. Well, isn't it just a symptom of the frustration that people are experiencing in society? That we seem to have a woke police force that's more concerned about whether they have a rainbow tick or their police cars have rainbow stripes on them, rather than actually going around and using the end of a PR 24 baton to sort out a few gang members by cracking some skulls? I don't know. I don't know. Well, I'm going off topic, mate. I must say, Lachlan's gone a little bit woke, Blake. He's wobbly, isn't he? He looked really good for the start there, but now he's trying to appease the vote. I don't even vote for him, so what's he up to, Cameron? I don't know, but he stood up to the media the other day when he was shooting. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think you do have a career the other day when that guy at Stuff Glenn McConnell was having a whinge about government ministers coming on reality check radio shows, and he was having a big conniption about it. Lachlan's said, I believe we'll speak to anybody. I thought that was pretty good. I think the politicians that have gone through stages have been scared of the media, and then I guess these are the points where they just think it's just too pathetic and bite back. I mean my view is that politicians should be scared of the media no matter who they are. They should be scared of them because the media are going to hold them to account and make sure that their feet are held to the fire and they honour their promises. That's if we had a decent media that would actually do that. You talk about the old media, not the one that's going to twist the truth into some bullshit and then have a headline that's totally misleading and then end up calling them racist or something, but it's clearly not. That's what they're scared of. Exactly. They're scared that someone will be offended. You and I aren't afraid of offending people. We do it all the time on a daily occurrence, hourly even. It's just what we do. I have been encouraging people around me to speak their mind. I know people just hold their tongue that certainly academic things and other work events and they just go along because they just don't want to cause a bit of a thing. They go along to get along. Yeah, but if everyone just started speaking against it and then a few more people might join in and then we actually see that the airport doesn't have any clothes on and we get back to a normal functioning society. Yeah, exactly. We need some more sensibilities happening out there. We just need people to be more truthful and because most people don't agree with it. Look at the last election. Well, the left hasn't seen the grass down yet, have they? The left hasn't grasped that they lost the election. In a battle of ideas, they had done one. Yeah, they lost and they lost comprehensively and they're still losing more ground and they just aren't accepting it and they're just thinking everyone else is stupid. It's good times. Anyway, we should have Cam's buddies in charge, not the Wombles that are currently there. Oh, the current lot who are currently in power. I'm reasonably happy, mate. I'm happy that I was a year ago. Well, at least we can speak our mind and not worry about it these days. Before, when the Arduanists were in charge, you're worried about the Stasi coming and kicking in your door because you said something about some rainbow person who's got some strange pronouns, you weren't allowed to. That was death by firing squad. No, I've been watching a few videos on the X of Arden's little rants about keeping people in isolation longer if they don't take a test or just thinking we were to such an awful situation. No, we weren't close to it. We were in an awful situation where rights were ignored and overridden and laws were broken by the people who should know better and the media are all toadied along with it. Well, she paid them. I used to use a term back in the day calling people lick spittles. Well, that's what the media became. They became lick spittles of the Arduan regime. If she said, I'd like you to jump over there, they'd say, oh, how far would you like me to jump? Oh, thank goodness that time period's over, mate. That was terrible. It's the worst. Well, we shouldn't even let them forget it. I think a lot of people are super angry and it's going to take a long time to forget. And I think a lot of the current politicians who are in that government will have to retire and go and do other jobs because people just won't forgive them for a long time. A good long time. Anyway. All right, thanks for your call, Jimmy. Welcome to Cams Buddies, Paul. Hi, how are you today? Yeah, pretty good actually. You know, boxing on. That's a story. Now, I've got a question. What's today's topic? Today's topic. You might have seen a couple of stories. One is about the government moving to ban gang patches and whether that will work or not. And the other one is Stuart Nash coming out and throwing his former Labor buddies under the bus saying, well, I tried to do all these things to stop crime and they didn't want to do it. Right. Well, the gang patches is very interesting to me because I know that I was watching an article on the television that all truth comes from the television, but they were talking about how the gangs would take them on and tell the police who to. And some of the places down on the east coast there seem to have like five police officers and 500 gang members or 1200 gang members. So it's very hard for these things to go. But I think if the police were able to construct the conscript, the army to come in and then ceremonially, ceremonially take a number of these patches off these fellows, I think that would be a really, really interesting thing. I know, I'm actually at one of the gyms I used to attend. One of the officials there said no patches in the gym. And so anybody who came to the gym left their patches in the car outside somewhere else. So everybody just looked like they were normal citizens, not one group trying to intimidate another. Yeah, I mean, you're not someone who can be intimidated to by gang members either just quietly. Well, I don't like to be scared of being scared. So I really like to front up if anything's going wrong. But I'm not to say that, you know, these things aren't a little troublesome. But I've always thought, well, normally, if you can face people down as individuals, if they've got an issue, it's quite amazing how all sorts of people that have all sorts of things that would actually think you'd be you sort of all these intimidation things to think they're tough, one on one, they're not that tough. They often are just normal people like a normal person. Yeah, one on one. They're not that tough. And you and I have got some good experience on those stories that will probably kill a few people's toes and hear if they heard them. But our experience is that they're actually not that tough when you're one on one with them. When they're playing up a big in front of a group, well, it's a different story. But again, you can you can counter that a little bit. And I had different people from the Black Crown looking for me at one stage and unbeknownst to me, they had reasonable ranking, if such a thing occurs, but they were a higher rank. And so people would come into work and start threatening me. And next thing you know, one of my staff who I thought was just a just one of the former and one of the jobs because everyone has a word with them and the bloke looked terrified and moved on. And he said, he won't bother you again. And I thought, very interesting. They were they were pretty good blokes, these guys who are working on the tools then. They were all hardworking, reasonable theories is what I thought. And some of them had made a few mistakes in life. And many of them had, for some reason thought it was a good idea to tattoo that themselves on the face. It's definitely closure and employment opportunities. But they were when working, when working one on one, when talking to me or you know, respectful, good sort of citizens is what I thought. But I think this idea, if the government has the ability to pull it off, they will need to raise the police force or have a lot of backing for them because I don't think people are going to go down and just say, oh yeah, that's a non-event. And I saw also that they were taking some of these motorcycles and crushing them. I think that was quite a spectacle. And I think many people cheer on thinking I wonder how people who don't work for a living can afford 50 to 100,000 for a motorcycle. Yeah, I mean, I always joke that Harley Davidson's are like the Remington rifles of the motorcycle world. You get a standard one off the rack and it's of no use to man or beast. And you have to spend quite a considerable amount of money making them work properly. You're not a fan of Harley Davidson's either, are you? I am not. There's a number of motorbikes that I had that I've owned from you that were a Japanese knockoff of a Harley, except being a knockoff of a Harley, that's everything correctly. Like they had an overhead cam motor as opposed to a pushrod. They had fluid cooled. They had drive shafts. All these things, they performed better. They had, yes, if you were to lay it down, you could lay it down. Like I scraped the pigs a number of times on on such a bike and it was, and it stayed with you. And if you tried to drive off with the stand down, it would, the engine would cut out so that, whereas a lot of Harley's just keep driving and then as they turn the corner for whatever reason, it throws the rider and causes them a mischief. Oh dear, how sad. Never mind. I think Stuart Nash was one of the most ineffective ministers I think I've ever seen. I think he had high hopes, but in the reality and the enacting of what he did, he just proved that he was little or nothing here, nothing to see here. Yeah. He thought he was all that in a bag of chips and turns out he wasn't. Well, I found it amusing at different times. Like he didn't know when it was the right time to be a, like his vitriol when he had some speech after the winning of a couple of elections back. It just went down like a lead balloon. I'm thinking talk about can't read a room. The blight was classic. Yeah. I thought he was pretty ineffectual and what he did to shooters and confiscation of firearms was pretty appalling because the gangs never handed back their guns. That's the one thing the government was set about was criminalizing, law abiding licensed firearms owners while at the same time cuddling up to the criminals like the mongrel mob. Yeah. So it's interesting that there's some tiny homes that I'm involved with and people are saying, take them up north and sell them to people on Maryland. They don't need a building permit. And I'm thinking, how is it possible that they don't need a building permit? No building inspector deers can often have a look at what they're doing. Talk about a rule for law-abiding citizens and a rule for unlawful abiding citizens. It's sort of a bit interesting. And a number of police have been interviewed and said, would you give a gang member a ticket for driving recklessly or doing this whatever on the road? And they say, no, when they get back to the station, my understanding is they get mocked because if they were to give them a ticket, first of all, what's the guy's real address? So you're going to spend a lot of time trying to find the actual person who did the offense. Then he's not going to pay his fine. When he doesn't pay his fine, you're going to spend more time chasing after him to get the money out of him. And if you happen to go there, and this is all assuming that when you stop them in the first place, you didn't get yourself a hiding. And so if there's a group of lawless people who act in a manner however they like, and then the police think it's no problem to ticket a 70-year-old man or woman because they're not going to give them any trouble, this is not the society that I grew up in. This is not how I think it should work. I think that it's one law for all. And if someone offends, then we get sufficient police to go and sort out whatever the problem is. Yeah. And if we've got politicians that have got a bit of metal, a bit of spine, bit of backbone that don't cave into the woke, catawalling about whether or not it's racist or not, then we might get somewhere. Maybe the gang patch ban is a good start, but that's all it is, is a good start. I think it's a good start. And to actually get offenders off the street, I think, is a much better thing. And if it causes them to offend when you're trying to take the patch off them, then were they guilty of the offence, or did you, as the police, cause the offence? And so I think we'll end up with some quite interesting judicial cases, if this does happen, because who caused the crime? Was it the gang member, or was it the police officer trying to take the gang member's property for whatever reason, whether it's legal or illegal? Yeah. I mean, talking with Linley, we came up with the conclusion that this was just a good start. And we need to actually start addressing some issues around responsibility, personal responsibility, those sorts of things. And she mentioned the man up program. And I thought that's what the government should be doing. They should actually go and sit down with Brian Tamicki and say, right, how can we get man up into the prison so we can break the cycle? Sure, we can take the gang patches off them. We can put them in prison when they commit a crime. But what happens next? And to my mind, the only thing that has got any proven track record is the man up program. Well, Brian, if you talk to him, and I have a couple of times, seems like he's really got the best interest of the families at heart. And the big thing about joining a gang is the breakdown of the family unit. And so if mum and dad are together at home as a family unit, they bring up good kids. If there's mum at home and or dad at home, and there's no male role models that are examples of how to behave, then the young men look for something that is inclusive and a gang is. And so by not addressing the problem of broken families or single parent families, you're actually causing, when the state is acting as your parent, then this is a breeding ground for anti social behavior. And so even a bad dad's better than no dad often. And I'm not saying women should stay there and take beatings, but I'm thinking that sometimes we don't try hard enough to keep the family together. When the family breaks down, that's when we have people running off the rails. And then we have young people who get themselves into trouble, then they get attracted to the gangs. And then it's a cycle to downwards to prison. Well, and that's the sort of thing that like just just recently, I think someone I know very closely was stood down from school. And as such, what occurred with his stand down is hero status. And so when you see young people who are committing petty crimes of sort, and they get hero status amongst their peers, then suddenly they want to escalate to get more of the same accolades possibly as as young men. And I'm thinking we need to work out a system whereby if you've done wrong at school and you're punished, you don't come out of it being a hero. You come out of it being somewhat contrite for your poor behaviour. Yeah, exactly. I hear you. I think, you know, Having said that, having said that, I think some of the schools so woke that you get punished for things that in my day were was a discussion. And now it's considered a playground fight. Whereas if you would have put gloves and put a ring around it, then we could have sorted out some differences with young men getting off a bit of steam and getting rid of a bit of their testosterone or using it productively. But now anything like that, because of the video phones and all that, it goes online and suddenly the school's embarrassed and next thing you know, everybody's getting stood down or suspended or whatever because and suddenly you've got people who aren't learning the finer points of the male hierarchy. No, that's right. I mean, when I was at school, there was definitely a pecking order. And if you fell foul of that, excuse the joke, but if you fell foul of that, you certainly got disabused of your notions of above your actual status very quickly. Exactly. And nowadays they call that bullying. Everyone knew where they were going. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if it's actually bullying because in life, we learn the same things with our intellect and whoever makes the most money at the end kind of wins. So he gets or she gets people working for them, doing things for them for money. And we've sort of lost the competition factor and we've lost entrepreneurial behaviour. And we've lost the work ethic. I'm just looking and thinking, is it any wonder that folk are resorting to gangs and when they get there, it's like a family. It's like someone who will give the code, you don't mess up against the code or you'll get dealt to in one manner or another. And so all the things with the discipline that we're lacking in the home and normal discipline in the schools, the gangs seem to have it. And you sort of think, this is a little bit topsy turvy. It is, as I said to Lindley, it's ass backwards. But maybe Christopher Luxon should get Cam's buddies all together and we'll solve all these problems. We could give him a couple of coaching efforts. Exactly. All right, Paul, thank you for your call and I'll talk to you next week. Thank you. Bye for now. Welcome to Cam's Buddies, Miles. Good afternoon, Cam. How are you? Yeah, good. Box of birds. Everything's fantastic. I'm having a few chortles and laughs at the other buddies coming up with solutions for crime and things like that. And that's what we want to talk about today. The government's got an announcement this week that they're going to start passing legislation to start taking gang patches off gang members. And at the same time, we've had Stuart Nash throwing his fellow Labour ministers back when they were in government under the bus saying, well, I tried to do this sort of thing and they told me I was racist. What are your thoughts on those two things? Well, you know, I find myself laughing because if you look at what Goldsmith said, we need to take action to reduce the gang's ability to engage in criminal behaviour and prevent them from endangering and intimidating Kiwis. Good Lord, they're going to do that by, oh, what? Oh, you can't wear your gang patch in public. Gosh, that'll stop them. I can think that that'll just call a complete hole. No, I think they're, the devil's going to be in the details, but I think they're barking up the wrong tree. Sure, it sounds good. But just imagine if the detail meant that listeners wearing their RCR t-shirt, that insignia was considered a gang because of some quirk in the law. I mean, that would just be horrific. And, you know, this sort of thing where insignias can be banned is a sorry path that we're treating, I feel. Well, we had Jack earlier and Paul earlier who suggested that perhaps we should utilise another gang that wear green and tan and boots and things like that and carry sort of long black things and get them to sort them out. And Jack suggested that we might actually deploy the SAS in a more effective manner to deal with these gang members. And there's 9,000 gang members, and he reckons that the squadron could probably go through them in about 10 minutes. I think 9.3 minutes. But yeah, it's fine. I think here we are debating gang insignia. And I think it's a stupid law. But I'll have to say one thing. You look at what they're planning to do, police issue dispensable notices, which will require gang members to leave the area and not associate with each other for seven days. I mean, that's laughable. These people are criminals. The first thing they're going to do is go, oh, well, we've been kicked out of here. We'll get round at the bros place. They won't be listening to that. Well, they'll just saunter away and laugh in the police's face. Yeah, some there knows that the courts who are going to issue non-consent consorting orders, which will stop gang offenders from associating or communicating with one another for up to three years. Have these idiots not heard of the digital revolution? I doubt very, very much whether no one criminals will actually follow a court. And it's the thing. I mean, this is the thing that it's the same with gun laws, right? They pass all these laws and say, this is going to stop crime. No, it won't because criminals don't follow the law. Well, it's interesting that Mr. Goldsmith in his in his press release about the magical effect of banning and insignia, I'm sorry, banning and insignia says that there's been a significant escalation and gang related violence, public intimidation and shootings. How could how could there be an escalation of shootings? We've got the firearm safety authority, you know, their mission is in their name, firearm safety. Oh, that's right. It's only for the law abiding. If you leave them alone, they don't leap off the desk and run around and do terrible things, right? They just don't. Correct. Correct. It's people that are the problem. I mean, okay, look, I've had a bit of a laugh at the law, the proposed law. But actually, there is one thing that I quite like about it. The law will also be changed to give greater weight to gang membership as an aggravating factor. That's a great idea. I mean, hallelujah, shouldn't it be called the aggravated aggravated factor? And shouldn't the courts say, if you're a gang member, you add three years to your sentence, non-negotiable, no matter what. And very quickly, we'd see the judges and really, I don't have a hell of a lot of respect for judges. I think the judges and the police have strayed down the woke road and we're seeing some very, how should I say, biased judges and biased policing. And I'm not happy about that at all. But if there was a law that said, no matter what, if you're a gang member, you get an extra three years, well, yeah, so be it. But here's my solution. Hey, we've got all these laws and they already exist. Why don't the police enforce them? What's wrong with the police? Chance will be a fine thing. Well, I mean, look at it this way. If the National wanted to get tough on gangs, just to clear them a domestic terrorist organization, that's gone by Monday. That's what Winston said in the election campaign to clear gangs of domestic terrorists. And we can use the full weight of the terrorism laws against them, which would include using the SES. And they'd be gone by Monday. I mean, but instead we get these ludicrous reports from the press of gang members, I don't know, queuing up at tattoo parlors to get their gang insignia tattooed on their head or whichever part of their anatomy they're going to display in public. Have these guys not heard of belt sanders and angle grinders? Nothing so serious, but it gets laughable. I mean, and, you know, human beings by their very nature are quite interested in laws. And who's to say that the new gang insignia for gang XYZ isn't a blue New York Yankees cat or woe betide some other American Chicago football team cat. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're, if you're, yeah, I don't know. But, you know, they, they could switch in a second from having, I don't know, a big rondelle thing. They'll just change from insignia to colors. That's what they'll do. And you can't legislate against colors. Yeah. Imagine that otherwise granny would be going down to the supermarket in the blue dress and that'd be it. She'd be in the flamma because the police sure as hell wouldn't want to arrest that big dude over there dressed in blue. But granny, she looks like she looks very subversive. Anyway, Miles, I don't think we're going to solve this problem, but thanks for calling and we'll talk next week. Indeed. We'll see you next week, Cam. Bye. Bye. Gosh, my buddies are awesome. I'm so blessed to have such a great bunch of mates and new buddies to share anything with. They're so wise and speak common sense, except occasionally Jack loses the plot. But hey, that's why we love them. Tell us your thoughts on Cam's buddies by emailing inbox at realitycheck.radio or text to 2057. Thanks for tuning in to RCR, Reality Check Radio. Do you like what you're listening to or dislike what you're listening to? Either way, we want to hear from you. Get in touch with us now. You can text us with your message to 2057. That's 2057. Or email us at inbox at realitycheck.radio. 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