 Okay Are we on we are oh great. I'm so happy to have them So Kathleen you are yes ma'am H 804 to us today Yeah, and because I've never introduced a bill before I Have prepared a written introduction and I'm going to read it Huh, hope you guys don't mind that way. I won't leave out important points, sir Hopefully it's not too long So for the record my name is representative Kathleen James a member of the house education Committee and I'm here today to introduce H 804 a community schools bill So I'm going to start my testimony today with where I started on the issue of community schools Which is right at the very beginning so to answer a question that Casey had asked me last week All schools are located in the community. So what is a community school? And it's simplest it is a public school that actively partners with families and with community organizations health and social service agencies nonprofits businesses even universities To offer well-rounded and wide-ranging opportunities resources and supports that help students succeed and since these strategies are intentionally and specifically designed to reflect each school's particular needs and Community assets that can harness No two community schools look alike as I've learned community schools are a clearly defined model or really more of a strategy that includes four pillars one integrated student supports to expanded and enriched learning opportunities three significant family and community engagement and for a collaborative leadership team By integrated student supports we mean things like access to medical care dental care Mental health and even resources for families like job training or assistance with housing or nutrition By expanded and enriched learning we mean opportunities beyond the classroom Like after-school programs summer programs or even partnerships with businesses to provide internships volunteer opportunities or job shadowing By family and community engagement We're talking about things that bring families and community members into the school programs that engage parents in the school and in their student success Horses or social events for families or community members and opportunities for shared leadership The school starts to feel like a neighborhood hub and these stronger home school connections in turn are shown to improve student outcomes and Finally community schools have a collaborative approach to leadership that extends beyond the administration to include families community members and relevant local organizations So it's important to understand as I have done by you know by doing my reading that a community school has to integrate and include All four of these pillars otherwise you're you know picking and choosing but you're not officially a community school So as a newcomer to the legislature into the house education committee I first heard about community schools last summer at a conference in Denver the national forum on education policy There was an afternoon seminar community schools I thought it sounded really interesting and so I went and at this seminar I learned about schools in New York, Philadelphia Miami big cities that were accomplishing some really powerful things Transformational approaches. I thought at the so I I wasn't sure that this was relevant to Vermont because we were talking about really cool programs and you know sort of Very disadvantaged neighborhoods in You know or Philadelphia So I came home and I reached out to chair web and it turned out that Kate had already commissioned a Research paper from the Education Commission on the States about whether this model was being used in rural communities And I was happy and very surprised to learn that Molly Stark elementary school in Bennington Just south of my district has been using many of these strategies for years So on the day that Kate and I visited a truck from the Vermont food bank was parked outside and Families were coming to fill bags filled with fresh produce and they were receiving Recipe booklets that showed him how to cook these nutritious foods at home Inside the school a room had been set aside for a dental chair Where local practitioners volunteer to provide basic preventative checkups for low-income students? Molly Stark awful also offers summer enrichment camps in Academic topics like math reading and writing for kids in all grades. You come in the summer to Molly Stark school and take a math camp and They also house childcare and pre-k in the same building, which is really convenient for families So the big question is why am I so interested in this model? We hear all the time in this committee that children are arriving at our schools with a wide range of complex needs Stemming from poverty hunger housing insecurity and substance use disorder this severely impacts their ability to learn Which fundamentally if this is an equity issue The community school strategy is not some touchy feely idea and that's a bar that things need to clear for me It is a proven data-driven approach that can help boost student attendance academic achievement and graduation rates It can help close the economic racial and Economic and racial achievement gap and it can unlock additional funding through the federal ESSA Act because it meets ESSA standard of evidence-based approaches for eligible schools There is a stat. I saw that for every dollar you invest in Community schools you save $15 and other services. I have not had a chance to check out that stat yet So I realize I just put it on the record But I need to figure out where that data is coming from And take a look at it myself But I do believe that this is the kind of thing where you if you invest early you wind up saving Saving later. So the bill we're introducing today is model legislation based on Minnesota, New York and Tennessee I for one am very excited to hear the testimony to learn more about this idea because I am not the expert And to hear about how we can possibly adapt it and offer it as a pilot program for 15 schools Districts or SUs right here in Vermont Thank you for having me Yeah, all right Well, Colin is going to provide additional supplementary testimony as well first of all three things one. Thank you. That was really Really well done. I did okay. You did too. Can you give a copy of that to Amory so that we can post it. Yes, ma'am and three the governor had a proposal for a work group related to After school he did. Do you see anything that you're doing that might from this bill that might be able to be wrapped into the concept the governor is talking about Yeah, or Maybe then Well, the governor is talking about a universal program. So I'm not sure how these two pieces fit together but community schools as I mentioned one of the four pillars is this idea that Education doesn't end when the school day ends and that many students would benefit from after school programs weekend programs summer programs the The pilot Program that we're suggesting would allow 15 Probably at the SU level or district level here in Vermont, you know, so that we get more students 15 schools to apply for a grant and the winning schools or districts the first Probably year of this grant is spent doing a community Needs and assets assessment and so it would be up to each grantee school to look at what What programs and pillars would best meet the needs of their students? So some schools may come back and say after school is going to be a really important part of our grant Other schools maybe would not find that to be the best, you know, the service that their kids need the most So I guess that's me saying I don't know I'm just thinking we've got Jim in the room And Colin has tested me as well from the Vermont 88, how long do you think it'll take to present the bill? Oh Answer questions, I guess maybe 15 minutes Okay, Colin, shall we get you first then? It's your call. I think it might be helpful to get the tenants of the bill presented to us and then We can see what the time we have and I know we can get you back Yeah, I've seen it, I hope that's not cheating Yeah Because I think we'd like to be able to hear What is your time? Sure, so for the record that Jim Danbury less console walking through H804 This bill is actually hard to walk through because it's got lots of long paragraphs and lots of long risks. I think this this book came about I think from Last year you introduced it they came from a model and there were lots of things in this book that could be in rules I think but it's in the bill. I'm gonna skip those things because that's detail that I think we only focus on right now I do want to focus on a few things. So so There are findings here Let me read some findings and they're important here Finders are every child should be able to grow up to have the opportunity to achieve his or her dreams And contribute to the well-being of society Every neighborhood deserves a public school that fully delivers on that promise According to the most recent data more than half of the nation's school children live in low-income households Okay, as a result some school children face more challenges than others in succeeding in school and in life Community schools offer a facility to provision of comprehensive programs and services They're carefully selected to meet the needs of students and families such as addiction prevention treatment and recovery lack of stable housing in In adequate medical and doesn't care hunker trauma exposure to violence to students can do their best According to report from the learning policy Institute the four key pillars of the community schools approach Was your integrated student supports expanded and rich learning time and opportunities Active family and community engagement and collaborative leadership and practices more conditions and practices found In high-quality schools as well as address out of school barriers to buy Research shows that community schools School of Divisions can result in improvements in a variety of student outcomes including attendance academic achievement high school graduation rates And it can meet the every student to see tax center of evidence-based approaches to support schools and then by for comprehensive and targets for the end of dimension And lastly Richard shot to show you the program software strong return on investment $15 for every dollar invested. Okay There are a number of definitions here My time and we do that the patients who are forgotten them. I should use them because so long I'm gonna focus on a couple of them. Okay. Thank you So because we can read some of this later. Yeah, we get the concept. Yeah So there are four important Business here which We're James mentioned. So if we school means a public elementary or secondary school includes all four of the following Integrative student supports Which address out of school barriers to learn learning through partnerships with social and health service agencies and providers? Quartered by a community school director which may include access to services such as medical dental vision care and mental health services or access to concerts to assist with housing transportation nutrition immigration from those issues to Expanded in a risk learning time and opportunities including before school after school weekend and summer programs And provide useful academic instruction individualized academic support and risk activities and learning opportunities that emphasize real world learning and community problem-solving and the main clue are music drama creative writing hands-on experience engineering science tutoring and homework help and Recreation recreational programs that enhance and are consistent with the school's propellant Active family and community engagement which brings student families and the community into the school As partners in the choice of education. It makes the school a neighborhood hub By adults with a facility to access educational opportunities. They want food coordinating services without separate virus offer English as a second language classes Green card or citizenship preparation your school part, which will seek for a constant etc Partial leadership and practices which build a culture of professional learning Like the trust and service responsibility using strategies that shall And minimums included a school basically as a team a community school director and a community-wide leadership team And they include other vision for government's government's teams for areas I'm going to skip the other definitions except for one which is always will school Electoral school line 13 means a public elementary or secondary school that Has a student by what least 40% of the students are eligible for free or reduced lunch Or It's been identified for comprehensive for target support under a fellow So schools in need basically I'm gonna go forward here And go to the grant authorization So we're a line 10 page eight eight This says the agency is authorized to provide planning implementation And new grants to other school applicants As follows a one-year planning grant up to 20,000 dollars for each old school Annual implementation grants of 110,000 a year For a period of three years for each of those with school And at the conclusion of that three-year period possibly of a renewal grant for three years 110,000 year Then there is long language about how you apply for planning grant and D online 20, which I'm not gonna go through It goes on for a long time and then e Page 10 goes to the application process for the renewal grants, which I won't go through Goes for long ways What's important? I think is once you get through all that and get your grant What do you have to do? So page 13 line 7 Is For Renewal grants. This is what you have to do in order to be a community school This program of services and activities in this subjection shall be tailored to school and community needs as Identified in a session that has to be done early in the process As a condition we see a fund of applicants shall be each of the school a Provide a community school director And as applicable a district level community school initiative director of the coordinate services our schools Be established to maintain a school based leadership team and teach for them communities for each for the SU I Keep me why there's a team. I know we don't want these terms mean yet, but we'll come back to them later And make implementation of at least two of the following interest student supports access to health services Access to nutrition services Access to programs to provide assistance to students who have been probably absent to spend or expelled For example long list there D implement Expanded in a rich learning time and opportunities which being through the digital academic instruction Before school after school at some learning programs mentoring, etc and implementation implement at least two active family and community engagement strategies which bring food On-site by childhood care Education home visitation services access to the education access job search Preparation access to legal services access to programs that aid families and communities programs that promote parental involvement And provide other programming services is that to meet school's main needs And publicly disclose the results So that's the core of this both we have to do so the two sections I do go through we're all about application processes This is where the heart of the thought think right here And then this required evaluation by AOE which requires The August but this evaluation by AOE of the program There is reporting to the John assembly by AOE for December 15th 2020 And there's appropriation upon so there's two million dollars appropriated to the Ed fund from the F1 to the agency To award these grants Any fact today's passage so that's kind of a quick Yeah, I think obviously we're going to need to dig into this and we will But I'm good I want to make sure that we have an opportunity to hear Just in terms of that 60 is this okay with that 60 if this if this plate Yes, we talked about that a bit earlier There's a provision under law that you can't use this over front for education and he is creation much from this for services this bill consciously has The services not being provided by the school Coordinated coordinates be brought into the school So the school these services would not be on the school budget they'd be on Yeah, boy, did you watch your services or whatever? So basically this bill is this high in a coordinator putting their plan I could bring in services. So did that helps that Thank you There's a lot to it and it did come from another state and trying to turn it into a promise the findings and stuff We can't thank you How did you say This is the last week of January For the record com Ramson political director for money a I'm going to focus my testimony on the why and specifically why Vermont any and our 13,000 members think that exploring this pilot that represent James introduced and Jim walk through is valuable at this time and I think For those of you served on the committee for some time you've heard time and time again from our members about the challenges our students are facing and it's impacting our students at the youngest and earliest grades and they're coming to Coming to school unprepared to learn because of these complex needs Related to poverty homelessness mental health the opioid crisis and other challenges And it reflects the research what we're hearing from our members reflects research out there that we can all intuitively understand that if a child Is worried about where they're going to sleep at night or if their caregivers are safe Or if they're going to be able to have food over the weekend that's going to impact their ability to actually learn and listen and absorb and engage with their peers and their educators and That creates barriers to their learning last April we surveyed our members on issues that they are seeing in schools and 93% of them pointed to poverty and hunger Impacting students and their ability to learn is one of the number one Factors that they're dealing with and chair web was part of in 2017 the adverse childhood experiences working group That heard from educators social workers doctors medical professionals across the state About the impacts of childhood trauma on on all citizens But also specifically in students and actually one of your colleagues I was looking through the the reflections on the report and represent Donahue from Northfield Actually had a quote in a digger story where she said what surprised me the most was hearing testimony From our school system from teachers about the really really dramatic challenges that they're seeing in kids and their ability to At the primary traits connected the opioid crisis And so you've been hearing these from educators from superintendents from school board members from teachers school counselors And I hear that bell ringing Okay, great And their heart wrenching stories and they happen every single day the reality is our public schools are already doing a lot of Really important things to help support our students in their learning and their families to be successful in our community Because students walk through their doors and their compassionate educators that tackle those challenges as best they can Our schools are already providing and doing a lot more than they did 15 let alone 50 years ago from mental health supports to having washers and dryers inside schools so students who are homeless can have the dignity of wearing clean clothes and You know represent Conlon your district Middlebury high school I think after several years just became the 11th school to embed inside the high school Medical facilities so students and I believe families perhaps and I'm sure you can speak to it more are able to access Critical health care services where they need in a place that they know well that is safe and accessible And these are all critical needs that are students and our educators are seeing every single day and we Strongly believe that in order for students to be able to access the learning the challenge that you're hearing related to literacy your challenges That you're trying to address with acts 173 those are parts of the puzzle We see a 204 as another critical piece of the puzzle because teachers and educators in our schools Can't be as much as their passion and desire might want them to be they can't be social workers They can't be mental health clinicians. They can't be housing advocates. They're professionals whose expertise are housed in that And they have the acute the ability to address those systemic challenges for our students and their families so what I think is really critical and Jim and represent James so spoke to this is it creates a specific Individual inside a school district whose charge was deepening and building out these collaborative relationships with Non-profit state agencies to find ways to provide these supports for students and their families in a comprehensive Community specific way that meets those needs And it's not asking more of schools, but it's saying what resources exist in our communities What a resource exists in our state and how can we make sure those services are provided to our students and families? At a time and a place in our schools they can have a pot of it positive impact on their future success Not only as learners, but also for their lifetime So I will pause there But really look forward to continuing the conversation on this bill because I do think that there are Opportunities to tailor this for Vermont and one final point. This is a challenge by choice, right? This is districts saying, you know This is what's right for us and we want to step into this opportunity We want to apply to receive this grant to tackle these challenges Schools already doing this. It has to be additive. It can't be something you're already doing If you already have a dental chair in your school, you can't use this grant to Pay for that already. It has to be about expanding those opportunities to your students and their families So thank you for your consideration. I apologize for the quickness and brevity But we look forward to continuing the conversation. It's a really exciting conversation I kind of think of what we might be able to do this year Yeah, we might need to it might be a step Absolutely, and I I think you know one thing We've had we've had members in this committee for I think six or eight years talking about this this crisis and it really is Something that we need to and I know you all have been but continue to think creatively about how we address these Challenges of students making and fixing the impact on students ability to learn Thank you Okay, thanks for having me in thank you, and I Have a bill today that as you notice has many co-sponsors I think It's at least try partisan if not quadra So let me just tell you how this bill came to be several of us pretty four-side legislators who are meeting with some of the faculty members on a totally different topic and One this happened bring up the fact that it was very annoying that 19 and this is a man 19 out of 25 of the Trustees were men and he's like we really need to be moving toward gender parody and Chris Pearson, and I started thinking along with a few of the others You know we could probably introduce legislation really encouraging that and I'm never critical of people I think sometimes we just get a little stuck in our ways and That we you know money replace people buys, you know with somebody who looks exactly like ourselves So this would be Encouragement to get them moving along and basically the crux of it is in section one Here it is the state goal is to have this board achieve Gender balance by 2025 and maintain it thereafter Gender balance means that the board is composed of 12 or 13 members who are women or people who identify as women or non-binary The one one thing that we're really bumping up our fight against our filing deadline we wanted to include some language about Diversity in it. That wasn't just gender diversity We were I was leaving town. I can't remember Chris was we just let the bill go But we do think that that's a bit of a flaw in the bill But we wanted to get again, so that's pretty much the bill Questions In this bill is Directed only at the university It is and that's Somebody else Colleges and again, I think it was because we're in the middle of December. We're trying to get this done So I suppose that is something to consider I think that there's more At UVM I believe there's more women than men for students that's correct The faculty balance, there's more men than women You can get you can you give a moment to talk with us about this can we put you in the seat? Are you just listening I'm just listening Just for the record. Can you just say sure? I'm Wendy County director of federal and state relations for UVM I believe that the student ratio is It may be 54 percent women who was somewhere along those lines, and I believe that the faculty ratio is 45 Approximately And I don't think that if not sure I said it but 19 out of the 25 Current numbers of the boy Man who won't like this bill? Who won't like it? Well, I'm not sure that all of the trustees like Some do because we have two of them who are at least two I think maybe only to who I've co-sponsored the bill Which I mean how many of the 25 do we appoint? And does the I Assume there's probably an internal mechanism Within the board making its own policy they could address this They're probably You know Yeah, I don't know So we wouldn't want to hear from the share of the trustees. We want to hear from the university Probably Professor Paul Beerman B I E R M and I believe it's a professor of geology He was extremely supportive and he also Got an online petition going that I believe they have well over a thousand people signed on to it Well, it goes back to the diversity Include including that in terms of either the policy or In this bill, I mean I just would think it would make sense to look at the demographics of the lawn and then Right, and that's why we're struggling. You couldn't say half, right, right? Right, and then the percentage of representation. I think the people that might be Concerned about this or you know People of color And I think everyone knows that We've told them that we just Let it go. Yeah Oh There is a little bit Correction, so just as in order to achieve the balance Trustees shall be appointed under you know that each year they have to be working toward it and then let us know How far they've gone so that when we appoint our trustees and the governor Hits trustee that Yeah, I do think you know the state college is if we are gonna look at a proposal like this Having testimony from them would make sense. I mean, I'm a member of the board. I don't want to speak for the board, but Representation is always important. Do you know what your balance is on the state college? Can't think of it. I'll put it on my head Well, it's a very interesting topic One Okay So I would say if we're to move forward that we would want to hear from the chair of the trustees We want to hear from you ma'am. We want to hear from Professor Beerman And actually, I think that There's a women's caucus. I think it's called a women's caucus faculty caucus And I'm forgetting the name of the chair of that But I could find it for you Can we get a copy of the current policy, I mean there must be a policy for how this election is Yeah, yeah, I mean I just looking at the law These commissions and boards are usually set up to be you know to designate who appoints what so it is an interesting question of How you achieve the balance for instance not uncommon in boards and commissions to talk about party balance in the case of Folks that are being appointed by political officials. And so It would be good to know. I mean, I think UVM could give us an analysis of And probably point out that there are concerns with the current appointment process But we might also have Jim do a little research on that might be helpful Okay That's your copy very good Don't you people have lunch here? Okay, just before we go I just wanted we have the public hearing tonight And if you haven't done a public hearing before I've never read one before so we'll see how that goes But this is not a time we do not ask questions. All they do is present She looked at me directly Yeah Take notes That is not a time to ask questions. This is a time for people to have three minutes to speak And I know that the decoded dyslexia folks have put out a notice of I'm pretty sure we didn't have that Right now I'm breaking the list of the list into two groups not pro con but Personal experience and professional 630 6 o'clock we'll see what happens Kathleen you will be Right in the clock, okay, and the clock you will have you will be telling people Who's up and who's on deck? Okay? so we should have an undefined chair and We'll be balancing back and forth right between the private and the profession. Yes Whenever we can I don't I don't know how it will be I want to make sure that we get through that with many of the folks that we can and if we have to extend I will extend, okay We Yeah But Thank you. Well, I'm struggling to get the agency and to provide testimony for us on a variety of things So I'm a little stuck on this moving. I am feeling some pressure Some time pressure going on here. It's likely that with the Pre-K bill that it's going to need to go to human services We're looking at it. We'll probably also go to appropriations. There's a good chance that we'll put money in it And all this has to be done by the MW where so That's where we are And the same literacy will probably probably just go to appropriations And Sarita is going to keep in touch with our friends up in human services on the Birth control bill So we just Have them, you know to help you with keeping track of that. Okay. That's okay. So you have to go up Yes, yes, I can yeah, yeah We won't have to open any books or anything like that Okay, how are people doing with what's going on with literacy and Are we gonna get the costs of things, you know the Cost of what the cost of any Implementations or initiatives that we're thinking And we'll see that So I we probably will need some community time soon to sort of make sure that everybody Can put their arms around both of those bills. Yes. I'm personally having I think I think one of the challenges with literacy Which we're going to see tonight. We've seen the chair already is Wow opposite sides. Yeah strongly feeling. Yeah I don't know what so are those I think that we can I think that there's a way that we can step ourselves back from that I Think that there's a way that we can step from a little bit higher picture and get into that that little detail Well, just making sure that our teachers are getting the culture I need From our assistant superintendent yeah weekend about for about an hour. Oh good. She has a lot of concerns, and yeah So I can submit a letter if she could yeah Definitely gotten it to you. I don't know if it's just going to me if it's going to you I'll post the one of seven the ones I'm getting to you as well Got a lot of emails. Yeah, and I think that there's part of this and we're going to want to back away Yeah, I've been having There's a hard time orienting myself on the literacy conversation the pre-k feels a little more Easier to wrap my head around and the literacy just feels like a Kind of siloed conversation that should be happening under an umbrella 173 as I've mentioned before And it also feels Just a really hot topic that we're way down in the weeds of but we're not having it We're almost like not having the conversation in context. Yes, it's kind of short-circuiting my brain a little bit honestly I think it was necessary to get into the weeds to get a little bit of an idea about what some of those things are I don't think you can walk into this without knowing some of them. Yeah But I think that we don't have to spend our time dictating That level of detail. I think we can say we've got reading scores that are not good We have report from DMG that says this is an area. Here are some things you should do We can look at that and starting to get back I will I'm going to try to speak offline with Meg and Roy at some point just to Pick her brain a little bit. We'll bring her back in But just to try to organize that I've asked Jim to start putting together findings Findings from the DMG report that will start the basis of our next bill So it's my my expectation that the three bills that we have are going over here And we're starting with a committee bill that will have findings about where we're going And then I've got some ideas and we'll hear some ideas as well I wanted to add from my district what I heard was a lot of agreement with mega Roy's testimony and the sort of Belief that this work is already well underway or just beginning with Act 173 And that bill that any bill that we might pass would divert from compete with Distract from or God forbid even ignite some sort of conflict, right, you know conflicting conflict Yeah So I'm just passing along the message that I'm getting from home Yeah, well, and I think that there are some some districts that are further along than others And bear in mind, we don't have good scores That's part of that's a piece of data that we need to be addressing Can we just look at the scores? I mean I was wondering without maybe naming districts You know But across from on like just to get a sensing of like they don't want to what the score ranges You know, it might be really well and who you know, like not even to look at specific Districts just to say this district whatever district it is in Vermont is really struggling and this district seems to be Tangent that wasn't the tangent that I was hoping I'm trying to get back on to How are how are our kids doing? Yeah, what's the name? I think Was Friday's testimony basically the reading wars taking there was that a back and forth? There was a little bit of that I would say but also heard that the Decoding dyslexia people are also They appear that they don't need as much defining as long as the programs are happening in the school Right felt like the room was divided literally that side And that was the science-based side of this is the balanced literacy side No, I would not agree that it was it was that I think what what we're seeing is if we go back to our Our you know Scarborough rope over there the bottom part of that says it is necessary To have this for to teach the structure of learning how our oral language relates to all those little figures on the print Says and most people are not born with that knowledge. There's specific teaching strategies to get there And and many teachers feel unprepared for that and I know it because I've seen that sure okay It's a necessary condition, but it's not sufficient, but I'm not sufficient That's what Megan was saying am I correct and I'm saying there are two camps What I would say is that there are they have different camps that have different emphasis So I think if we can recognize that both have value and are both Necessary and together you're sufficient, but you can't do it without They have to have both and so I think Where Where that the people with with you know identified Learning disabilities related to reading They must have the direct instruction down there a lot of kids can kind of pick up some of those pieces they just I had one daughter that did she's Got it. She broke the code, but we did a lot in breaking the code. She had a lot No, she had a lot of conversation about There are kids that they will fail without that direct instruction And so what we're looking at I think what they were what they were talking about in the programs that are going on in Heinzberg and Charlotte That the decoded dyslexia folks were saying that would work for me Okay, and there but these people are saying just remember that that's a component That's not our whole program So I think if we can bear in mind it's not either or it's both and And that we can sort of rise to say I guess an analogy that I'm thinking about in this is the idea Do we need to do you need do we need to have a diagnosis to say why you should be using the ramp? Or do we just build the ramp? and I think that I Think that we could get to you know the foundations of reading and the delight of what it brings to us in terms of expanding knowledge and learning Without having to define it is if possible But we need to make sure that these folks know that Teachers are getting the instruction that they need They're very specific strategies you learn to break down why why the letters work that way How you attack a multi-syllabic word It's chunks in it and there are rules to all of those that you can break down the word yesterday So we can break it down if you know the structure so I think they felt heard when I talked to them Yeah, they felt like we really heard them and I really appreciated that here that yeah, yeah, absolutely