 It's funny because I had a friend say this to me that because I kept going through stuff And she was like Tiffany, you know, whatever it is that your soul needs to know in this moment You're revisiting this for a reason, you know And that that reason may not have anything to do with you and it may be a story that you're gonna tell So I'm actually starting to get toward that where cuz because you really when you're going through things Like what is the point of this and maybe that is the point the point to kind of see yourself in the other and this You know collective consciousness that you know and to get beyond that this life It's just about me right here and right now that something I could do might be just the the tip of the iceberg that's gonna have Impacts for years and decades become when I'm or generations to come when I'm long gone and not remember But that's still a legacy. You right like maybe that's the point to get us away from this ego driven Yeah moves in the world. So African-American language though is very much prominent as in the discipline especially in sociolinguistics But for anthropology I did not see that being explored as much and I come from a background where I was looking at a part of African-American language Which is called African-American vernacular English which people when they think of that they think abonics But that term is very loaded and problematic And it has negative connotations because of how it's portrayed in the 90s But I look at it and there's all these verbal art traditions like hip-hop Black sermonizing from black preachers Signifying all these other things these traditions that impact larger American culture And I want to look at it from a positive perspective And I'm thinking these verbal art traditions the way to do it. It's artistic. It's creative. It's innovative But it means taking up outside of the African-American community in very interesting ways Consciously or unconsciously that is having long-term Influence on the culture and should be recognized and that I hadn't seen that much in linguistic anthropologists. I wanted Personally so I felt speaking of a calling and the gift and I felt a responsibility of Something larger than me needs to do this so that African-Americans behind me can come and have these conversations we can anthropologists can then look At the communities that they're ignoring I'll just say conscious or unconscious and say hmm. We need to have more conversations around this so That's what I'm trying to do Someone's opinion may contradict yours. Where's my friend Alan? It's all about your perspective Who are we and what is the nature of this reality? What's up everyone welcome to simulation I'm your host Alan Sakyan We are on site at the American Anthropological Association's annual meeting In Vancouver, British Columbia for our second partnership with them We are now going to be talking about linguistic anthropology and so much more. We have Tiffany Marquise Jones joining us on the show Hello, I see you. What's up? Thank you for having me. I'm very pumped for our conversations I Want to start things off with some of our big picture questions. We like asking our guests fair enough Are we really all one? Now I Linguistic anthropologists so words matter. Yes. We say we who is we or Should I define that? Yeah, this is this is good point if I Was to define we I would say all that is how would you define the we in that question? Okay, I'll try to so it's interesting goes on I think of we and Because we're sitting in the building of the triple-a conference. We could be we as anthropologists We now I would think just because I am American we're talking about American But we're sitting in Canada, so I assume a global context we as in people But then I also am aware that we could be in connection to nature and to animals and to so I have multiple levels We and I have something to say about all of that. Okay. Oh, you want to go at each level. I can oh my goodness Okay, break it down how you want to break it down. Okay, if I'm talking specifically about anthropology. I think the The Polish answer was yes, we are all a discipline of one But I think something that has been very much discussed here is how it's very splinter like everyone sits in their silos We have four fields linguistic anthropology bioanthropology Archaeology and then the cultural aspect now sit in linguistic anthropology and We I feel very siloed. I feel like I don't experience the other fields as much and also I'm a black anthropologist I don't feel like I experience other black anthropologists as much as I would like to and there's an association of black anthropologists So I feel very separated out and also I'm always the only and linguistic anthropologists in the room I get question whether I am doing anthropology when I am doing linguistics. So it's just very fascinating So I don't think I feel that especially as a graduate student Which is interesting because I do crossover and do other aspects and a lot of other fields feed into my work But they're so specialized. I think people like to keep their little boundary of I am a biological Anthropologists or physical anthropologists I am a linguistic anthropologist because because that's going to determine where you get jobs who values your work Who what kind of conversations you can participate in? America if I'm going to go up the ladder I'm a black woman African-American scholar who's studying Gentrification in Washington DC where people's cultures are being railroaded and kicked out because of the the transplants that are moving in and They're being silenced and ignored so we very much feels like it does not cover African-American culture we depends on Dominance a lot of times, you know Places or talks of whiteness in particular or through the lens of whiteness. I should say so sometimes when people are in a room And it's a mix and especially if I'm the only woman of color and people say we I'm very much I'm quick to jump in and say that doesn't represent my experience that doesn't represent how it approach this So no, I very much don't feel like my culture and community is always a part of that we globally Someone has said that racism is now being replaced with tribalism from a national perspective and Very much the Americas is or I would say America the states Has ostracized itself from a lot of people right now, right? So I don't know if we fit in the same or see ourselves in the global community as much as I will like I see myself as a global citizen But this we are the world not sure anymore especially in this current context But I like to believe that we are all Apart and in fact affected and influenced by one another where I'm here In the states in urban culture versus someone on the other side of the room Versus someone on the other side of the world. I do feel like what I do over here camp What's what's that phrase like a ripple over here will create like that butterfly fly? I do believe that there's this constant flow of energy that happens Spiritually emotionally mentally I do feel like we are all connected whether or not we realize and act from that position Not so much, but I believe we're connected spiritually to animals to nature to divine all of it. Yes Sorry Yes, I I really appreciated your breakdown a lot and I want to hit the ball back on The last point because we'll get to that to your the middle point that you made especially when we get deeper into your research Okay, and and I know I'm confident that AAA will over time become even more Cohesive across those four that you initially mentioned. I hope so first part. I'm very confident It's already so beautifully multidisciplinary in the very last part on a Spiritual level on a deep interconnected level of all Is the most upstream issue that our society faces? That is causing all of the downstream symptoms that we see the fact that we ourselves are not deeply immersed in that interconnectedness That we are not deeply immersed in unconditional love and that we are not Passionate about having when every child comes into the world them to experientially experience mm-hmm. I do see that So I actually had a current an interesting conversation with a friend About Particularly I think the black experience is very much rooted in weaness whether we wanted to or not if you know if I see Someone on the news that has done something great in there of African-American descent I'm we're all like yes That's the win if I see someone that has you know committed a crime and it's then judges all black people It's like oh my gosh. What happened to us. It's a sweetness, right? So then I move in that sense of what I'm doing is going to impact my community I don't think that bleeds out and this person has said that they've talked to people that say, you know Coming from a European tradition. I don't really think of that Weedness from my community that way unless it's just their family or blood ties or things of that nature So as someone who kind of partially moves in weaness in that sense I do think the world is lacking that seeing themselves in other cultures and other people Seeing themselves even in how we treat animals how we treat the environment how we relate to spaces is very much like well You know, that's not gonna bother me over there, you know, if if I'm doing this if it doesn't impact my immediate environment It's fine, right? I don't see what's gonna happen over there So why should I care or if it impacts this economy or the globes 50 years from now if the world blows up? Well, I'm dead. I don't care. We don't see ourselves and even the generations behind us So I do think that is a problem and part of why some of the issues that we're experiencing We don't know how to deal with it because we're kind of disassociating that spiritual emotional mental It's all these connections these points of connections whether it's racism whether sexism, right? Because if it's on gender dynamics, well, I don't I can't identify with that if it's race dynamics I can't identify socioeconomics all of this, right? And we start from this self experience if I don't get it I can't empathize with it if I didn't go through that. How do I know how to talk about that? so and it takes a specific kind of person as willing to see themselves in a global community or a Interconnected way to kind of say let me if I don't understand it figure out how I am impacting other spaces and other places that make sense yeah, and Some of the most I guess Indigenous wisdom around things like a seventh generation principle you got to think that far out in advance about all of the different Decisions that you make or that the breath of air that I take in comes from phytoplankton and trees to bite of food comes from the power of The Sun these are just the things that if a child's born in a metropolis And they don't get to see the cosmos because of light pollution and the exchange of sheet of paper for the apple that it's Inevitable that there's gonna be a sense of disconnection right and stacked up in top of boxes now having to go out to Trees and beaches for nature therapy. I mean it's getting quite ridiculous to You know to juxtapose these two indigeneity and modernity and then try and see if maybe actually the marriage of the two can actually build that Best forward path, right, right and it's interesting recently. I was teaching a class of kindergartners and Just on something really small and it really helped me understand this about this connectedness They Get in a lot of food in this class through this program and they wouldn't eat it they would just waste it play with it throw it away and I was getting really disturbed by that because I'm just thinking how many Homeless that we walk over that could have eaten that food, you know, or how many things wasn't properly cycled into Recycling bins that could help this planet and so I started to say okay. I understand your kindergartner I understand your preschool. Let's start to have these conversations about how what you do in this moment with this plate with This food can impact so many people or down the road and so we started talking I made that into a lesson about recycling about Responsibility okay, if you don't want the food don't touch it because then we can then use it to give it to the homeless or Shelters or whatever things like that and it was really interesting They they can't even start to fathom that what I do will impact someone I've never seen or a world that I might not understand and interact with or that if I put this in this right Bend it could be recycled and reused for another person right and it was really interesting to see that from Child's eyes that if you can have these conversations from very young, right? I think that then you get socialized into that weakness and this is us in the world and how what I do impacts other things But if we don't what is that responsibility to look like 20 years from now when that kindergartners older, right? so I yeah, I do think it's very fascinating and Because I am constantly Judging myself from this weakness. I'm also aware that the work that I'm doing right now is gonna help or not help someone 2015-20 years from now, so It but I am aware of that. That's not always been because I wanted to think that way It's because I'm aware that people who did not think about me years before I'm still trying to break through those barriers and those boundaries if that makes sense So I think it if you're impacted in a way that you recognize that other people's actions have hurt me Hopefully it will help you locate yourself that the same going backwards and in terms of indigeneity and modernity and things of that nature We are because we're so siloed and we like to think things in static terms if we only understand indigene is being passed or rule or other or And whatever these romanticized notions and we don't see how indigeneity is reflected today If I don't encounter other cultures that are repping indigenous Perspectives and not the way that I see it because right if someone says well This is how I understand indigeneity and then someone's indigene is like well actually But if you don't give them the space to correct you or to reflect like in contemporary terms that challenges your norms, right? Then we're stuck. I Hope that makes sense because I feel like I'm rambling No, you good. Okay, I'm feeling I'm feeling like this is cool. Excellent. There's there's another aspect to this that you know you begin showing us the sheer complexity of of Basically people not feeling we or us or the one or unity God creation source big bang universe Don't care what word you used to describe it That right there having this big challenge for us to kind of be like wait We are that for us to remember that do you think that's the whole purpose of this reality? Reality as being What we're doing on the earth reality as in this this entire experience of all that is Has created this for the exact purpose of us trying to realize that this is a big grand challenge And we have to get through that so It's funny because I had a friend say this to me that because I kept going through stuff And she was like Tiffany, you know, whatever it is that your soul needs to know in this moment You're revisiting this for a reason, you know And that that reason may not have anything to do with you and it may be a story that you're gonna tell So I'm actually starting to get toward that where cuz because you really when you're going through things Like what is the point of this and maybe that is the point the point to kind of see yourself in the other and this You know collective consciousness that you know And and to get to get beyond that this life is just about me right here and right now that something I could do might be just the the tip of the iceberg that's gonna have Impacts for years and decades to come when I'm or generations to come when I'm long gone and not remember But that's still a legacy, you right? Like maybe that's the point to get us away from this ego driven. Yeah Move in the world. Yeah Yes. Yes, you you're viewing yourself more like a divine Being that is a that has a role to figure out in this big Let's say Experience that we're all a part of and if you view something that is an obstacle as something that is a challenge to overcome and to Level up gain experience points become better help with the world flourish Be in service find your gifts bring them forth That sort of a viewpoint on this can just help drive people towards things that transcend them individually their ego and Things that bring us more to an ego less self less Prosperous right place and so that is something that we obsessively talk about on the program I'm glad that we had that back and forth on it. Let's get into let's get into the depth on linguistics again They're apology. Um study of African-American language and its verbal art traditions sounds like a mouthful, right? Yes This is a complex this is a very complex in the first place because We from what we know this was what about? How many 500 ish years ago even be the beginnings of an African-American something right? Yeah, and it's Whatever African-American language is is still becoming known is still being figured out like the term African-American language has just shifted from African-American English not that long ago And before that black English and before that Africa, you know language and before that other So it's been iterations of this evolving because the even the study of African-American language was done from a white point of view of Man trying to Figure out what is this babble talk as they put it or this broken English or this bad talk that slaves are doing Up until the point where then black scholars start to well And I would say some white scholars start to show like no this is a structured language that has its rules And it is not incorrect. It is not Inferior to that standard American English is one variety and then there's this other language variety That is not less than it's just for this community and then black scholars took that over and Is starting to do excellent work in showing like it's not even just one level black It's middle class black is black in urban spaces is black and queer is is female African-American women's language So it's still very much evolving um today and and Then the roles that I take within as just a phd student I'm sure I'm only getting like a pinprick of the larger view for the people who've been in this field for a while and see it involve Evolved in front of their eyes. I will I I'm sure completely different experience of that. So African-American language though is very much prominent Is in a discipline especially in socio linguistics um But for anthropology I did not see that being explored as much and I come from a background where I was looking at a part of african-american language Which is called african-american vernacular english? Which people when they think of that they think abonics, but that term is very loaded and problematic um And it has negative connotations because of how it's portrayed in the 90s But I look at it and there's all these verbal art traditions like hip hop um black Recognizing from black preachers Signifying all these other things these traditions that impact larger american culture And I want to look at it from a positive perspective and I'm thinking these verbal art traditions is the way to do it It's artistic. It's creative. It's innovative But it's being taken up outside of the african-american community in very interesting ways consciously or unconsciously That is having long term Influence on the culture and should be recognized and that I hadn't seen that much in linguistic anthropologists. I wanted personally so I felt speaking of a calling and the gift and I felt a responsibility of Something larger than me needs to do this so that african-americans behind me can come and Have these conversations we can anthropologists can then look Um at the communities that they're ignoring I'll just say conscious or unconscious and say hmm. We need to have more conversations around this So That's what i'm trying to do wow even just that breakdown of like what from 500 years of what Has unfolded has then broken down into so many other sub categories of linguistic anthropology Is that in itself is already woe and then after that is well, then you also had to have Sociolinguistics, so it's like people of different socioeconomic statuses. Oh, definitely. I mean no Culture group community is a monolith, right? There's so many levels to this um And I think the way black culture sometimes or any, you know minority culture gets depicted as one level But yeah, sociolinguists and linguistic anthropologists and I won't go into how they're very different But had to bring in the socioeconomic aspect of it because i'm middle-class black. I grew up in the The second richest black county in the nation, which is in Atlanta I'm now studying a population that's in the richest black county, which is in dc pg county and so it became Very obvious that when we're talking about african-american english We weren't necessarily always talking people were thinking about in terms of like low income urban spaces not even thinking about Regional varieties of african-american english what i'm going to see in new york is going to be different in the south It's going to be different on the west coast is going to be different depending on socioeconomics It's going to be different depending on if I align more prominently with black culture If i'm moving in spaces where i'm predominantly in white areas How much I can code switch or if i'm just participating in other communities? Of culture whether that's being I don't know blurred them right the blurred culture or Whatever movements that For instance i'm in a belly dance world right like I might I might have other kinds of varieties or other kinds of jargon That will be specific to so everyone was just trying to be as Open and diverse as they were trying to define african-american english so they weren't Outsiding anyone and that led into african-american women's language and other Sees pockets Of the variety that are still being unfolded um And someone can pick up something in five minutes. I mean five years from now and come up with a new Definition or community that I might not even be aware of so it's still very much evolving And this also includes americas at large like central and south america Well, well when I say a l definitely i'm dealing with African america in the states in the but there is definitely look at language in south america There's definitely look at black people in europe. There's so many um Like I just left a discourse analysis seminar with jennifer roth gordon looks at afro brazilians and race and talk there And that's going to be and realize a little bit differently than african-americans just because of the The cultural perspective the way the the national perspective is looked at You know race gets talked about very differently in america than it does Say in south america or in the caribbean or in africa like it's just going to look different But when i'm saying a al and literally literally looking at the african-american experience Yes, the in the states in the united states So give us give us an understanding of what are some of these findings around linguistic anthropology as well as Even to the to the extent of some of the most interesting aspects of these pockets And also what are some of the obstacles that are in the way? And how can we how can we build a social fabric that enables it to Get rid of the obstacles make it easier for people to actualize those those gifts moving forward And when you say obstacles actualizing gifts, can you just yeah like anything that is Some sort of an impediment to people actualizing gifts. So whether it be yes. Yeah, and in my field. Yeah. Yeah, okay so Because we just had randy on the show and he was giving us a like he would walk up to his um Teacher in middle school and he would start speaking and she would be like, where did you learn to speak like that? Sorry that that just gives me a reaction. Um, yeah Well to me too. I'm just thinking like well, can we make it so that we don't say like that, you know, yeah Yeah I I wish I had this very pretty answer for that. Can we make it so that There's not these pockets that get judged in certain ways or that there's these open um access to explore language in all its facets without it being impeded it It's different. I can only talk about from my experience and I had a lot of barriers to get to the point where I could do this research some with Again conscious or unconscious that could be argued um, a lot of it has to do with just how academia is in itself in that it's been just driven from dominant culture and um So the ways things get talked about as especially as an african-american scholar if I want to be able to Knock down doors. I am very much aware that I also How is that gonna? Position me later if I want jobs to have certain conversations to move in this space where people don't peg me as a troublemaker Right, so if I'm saying something that's challenging the way people already understand it and say oh, no, no, no No, we already got this figured out. Thank you for your input But but you're good you you young scholar. Thanks. Thank you. That's cute. Um I don't know how to sometimes infiltrate that right other than to It's for me a sheer will of being like no, I'm not gonna deal with this And I don't want people behind me dealing with this and just knocking down the doors and sometimes that builds relationships And sometimes that breaks relationships. I've had experiences of that where that's put me in the place where my work was blocked In certain areas and in certain fields and I had to kind of just be willing to keep being creative and move like water through These crevices and find a way out so I think um It's funny within african-american language studies a lot of the white scholars Who were doing research? I was listening at to a documentary and they were saying you know What it's time that white scholars get out the way and let black people talk about their own language And I think that's a lot that was the has to happen People have to let the people who have lived these experiences Who have the investment in these communities and in these language structures be The experts in that and be willing to again take an ego out of it and get out of the way And that's very hard when you've built a career on being an a let's say an african-american scholar as a non-black person or a You know, I am a feminist but I am male whatever that is and you know getting out of the way So there's one in that sense of people being willing to get Over themselves a little bit and just say there's room at the table for multiple perspectives And I might not have the lock on that but then there's also being um willing To go up against challenges where you're someone that's when you're doing this work recognizing It's not easy. It hasn't been easy for those before us And but I have a responsibility for those behind me to keep trying And as we talk about it more that will create space for more talk As we break down more walls that will create more openness And as I make good on this opportunity that will create more opportunities So it's very much from the top down the power structures and then people being responsive Full for like I want to be an advocate in this way. I want to create opportunities in this way It's both and yeah speaking of people getting out of the way we talk about this so much on the show that we have in many ways Archaic codes that still govern a world where very young consciousness is trying to become more sustainable is trying to evolve and grow and heal our planet to the next World and we have just this grasp of In many ways greed corruption Just a bunch of old codes that need to die It's like let go of the throat of the biosphere and let the next evolution happen But they don't want to let go because there's money involved in the old codes And so that's this Seems like a very similar Way of viewing that first one and then on the second one And can I just say something? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Um, and it's not even just money Sometimes it's just the comfort right like I already am comfortable in this way I don't want to give that up because to be out of your comfort zone is to lose power in itself And then we're seeing that it just to kind of give it a language spin We're seeing language and evolve right before us when it comes to say use of pronouns, right? But now we got an old system our case system. Why should I have to do that? Why should I have to learn your pronoun? That's not how it's been for me It's been he or she and it's by sex, but we're in now this movement We're again young coach consciousness new right is evolving in front of our eyes and saying no, there's non gender binaries, right? I mean, there's non binary gender identity Um, there is or this new way of understanding sexuality, right? There's new pronouns that need to be it's not You can ask me what my pronoun is and I and honor that but what happens when people are like, nope That's uncomfortable for me. I don't want to do that. I don't want to learn a new system because that's going to make me Subject to your expertise in this field or your demands in this field But the world has been bent to my will for the longest time Getting out of the way involves that as well being willing to be the novice in a new area that's evolving right before you This is such an interesting Back and forth on what uh in many ways is the very classical like open consciousness Trying to advance and evolve and then somewhat of a more archaic consciousness that's trying to Hit the ball back to the young one saying well think about it this way Maybe it's better in this regard and then it just goes back always gatekeepers Yeah, well, it's interesting to see that back and forth because maybe there are actually sometimes when the Maybe when the younger consciousness is trying to make a move in a certain direction That there is a ball that's hit a back From the older consciousness that says well, what about this that that and then the younger one goes well actually You know this and that one are really good. And then yeah, there's always this it's a it's a joint. It's co-constructed It's co-constructed one or the other because we also got to honor our elders as well Because it's that memory and consciousness that comes from the tradition that that has implications and should not just be tossed out In or out of newness either. Yes. Yes. This is well said and then the second part that you mentioned I think so so interesting is that when you have something like a an analysis of Of language that is being used especially over The use of african-american language here in the last 500 years I'm really curious as to what exactly have been Some of the most interesting ways of perceiving how people have been overcoming like you said Making it getting through obstacles bringing gifts to the world you are talking about like there are We didn't know there's a there's the richest african-american communities in dc second riches in elanta What is going on in those areas that is special about the way that people are talking or behaving That enables them to be so wildly successful and how can other people potentially take on some of those habits So i'll speak more about dc because that's where my research is even though i'm from atlanta I I left and has been kind of more ingrained in the dc culture Before I would say this decade and With in consideration of african-american language what drew me In terms of gifts was to the spoken word community there spoken word poetry to be specific And it's a performance for those who don't know it's a performance poetry People kind of know it as you know when they make fun of it They're like oh snap snap and it's very much like it's musical in nature as its own pacing and And it draws a lot from african-american Culture in the sense that it's not just someone reading a poem. It's very interactive It's almost like this conversation the audience talks back which brings in black church traditions of this calling response it brings in levels of hip-hop culture and um What is so good about this community and I want to I don't want to own it like I'm discovering this art by any means because it's been here for a long time Um, and I am not the expert but they let me into this world Um, but as a first as a fan I observed this tradition in these open mic um spaces where these Artists and because that's what they are would use And I don't think they were just saying like I'm using black language I think they were speaking how they would speaker in in any way that they felt was creative using interesting metaphor Interesting pacing and rhyming in a way that worked for them But I'm seeing these black artists who were pushing back at power structures who were positioning Blackness as this thing to be proud of Was positioning black language in very creative ways that was You you just can't walk on this or walk into this stuff. It is a craft the way they make use of words but also the way they make use of um Being a global citizen, you know, it's using language to make it a better place where that is to educate um the masses on how Let's just say in dc. Let's go very specific Where gentrification for instance is taking over where african americans? that have been born in bread or Located in this area for a long time their culture is kind of being erased as white people the gentry the elites Transplants not all white, but um non dc base are moving in and taking over They use their language to kind of show let me just show you what chocolate city is Let me show you what dc is. Let me show you don't own these spaces Let me show you what you're erasing. Let me bring in and add in my flavor of language talk about the food culture talk about the history of dc defining what chocolate city is to first educate you So that you're aware what you're erasing consciously or unconsciously But also to empower those who are from these areas to say, you know what you are of importance You do have a space you do have a place your story deserves to be told and the way spoken word is by Giving a person a mic in a stage in a moment is very empowering in itself, right? So when I saw that That very much inspired me Maybe not to be a spoken word artist But to use my voice as an academic and of course I use my voice as an academic to highlight them But like to be empowered to talk about black language from a positive perspective to own it to love it um But also I want to think about how I want to be an artist in other ways Like it just empowered me to embrace myself to embrace my dreams that these Groups of people who may not have had every advantage the opportunity and resources are Finding ways that literally i'm even doing this as black people making a dollar out of 15 cents, you know Or making something out of nothing turning a mayonnaise sandwich into a meal like they use what they have naturally and language in and what they love in terms of culture and music and poetry and that blend and create This beautiful art form, right that is reflective of Who they are who they want to be and informing other people how They can more responsibly move about in the world. So they might challenge hyper or toxic masculinity They might challenge Systems of abuse whether that's physical emotion or whatever or they might even challenge getting involved And your voting process they use it for whatever platforms, right to talk about love even it's not just from social advocacy And that way to say black love is beautiful family is beautiful So i love that it challenges me every time i go in these spaces um And to do it in an artistic way makes it non-threatening So someone who's coming in these spaces who might if you just spoke at them say privilege You're infiltrating but to hear it poetically they might sit back and like okay Let me receive this because one is beautiful to listen to but that's also it's not It's it's something that they're going to turn on and think on later Because it stays with you because it moves in rhyme and verse and we hold on to that more Yeah, does that make sense like bypassing the gatekeeper or something that's been talked about in art and music Performance for a while. Yeah, that's a that's a really good way to put it and if you can do these different ways of Synthesizing storytelling art that is Awakening It's transformative for our collective. And so I really like the example in dc because Actually, we're experiencing this in the bay area in oakland a lot right now We're experiencing like across the world in different areas of just urbanization We in even somewhere like ohaka city, right? You know, you wouldn't have ever thought that that there would be an indigenous that live right outside the city that have Had urbanization happening to them and and so this is happening in so many different places What do we do about trying to retain culture and tradition? We've just seen this big power law happening with language languages are becoming like dead economic languages Nobody wants to speak them anymore. You're just learning english or mandarin And that's you know, this is like what what what do we do about retaining? the culture that we We it's it's so unfortunate at times that yes, we want to build the singularity and artificial general intelligence So we need all the engineers moving to san francisco, right? But you know, yeah, but then you have the these beautiful artists that have That aren't able to pay three grand a month right bedroom right in rent And so there's got to be a new way of seeing what the value is that actually philosophy morality ethics spirituality that if we don't embed those things in engineering and design And the general intelligence and all these things that we're trying to build that we're going to have more suffering by accident Right do that. Yeah speaking of collective. Yeah, not just saying oh Because now it's stem only right stem And humanities is even becoming like obsolete It's saying that they all work together, right? Like biz we need business. We need farmers We need artists. We need all of it, right? But in terms of what do we do to preserve? I mean, I think This is one thing I do like about anthropology, especially as especially linguistic anthropology There are a lot of movements that are preserving language. There are a lot of revitalization movements that are trying to Save endangered languages or what could be seen as those that are dying out And some of that can be problematic depending on who's revitalizing because someone might say well, what version of the language gets You know Privileged as the real language that was dying out But but still there are these movements in place where people are trying And aware and I think a lot of anthropologists come from that trying to preserve texts like from Native americans a lot of what I've learned about linguistic anthropology where people are trying to say we don't want to lose this Even it was done a lot outside of the community though not from the people themselves But what I like is I'm a lot of people from within the communities And that's what I'm trying to do is trying to Highlight spoken word poetry so that it is brought into academic consciousness so that it can be celebrated Not just in public spaces but in academic spaces So I think a lot of scholars are finding You know the arts and the languages that they have connections to and Doing work that will hopefully preserve it in other ways whether that's for By writing about it in journals in my case I would love to do an ethnographic film to kind of even show it You know from a public you know to a late audience and not just do it for academic spaces Yes But part of it is being okay Or to know that my language is valuable right that it is worth preserving And it's I didn't even know first off that I spoke this thing called african-american language But I was very much taught as the middle class blacks female Get rid of it. Don't talk like that. That's not going to get you anywhere, right? You need to sound educated It wasn't until I entered in classrooms that gave me a term that there's this thing called african-american english at the time And by giving it a name it gave it power and made it real Right, but then to see people who were studying this and calling it This has his structure. This has value You know by saying that out loud it empowered me to own it first We can't preserve it if we don't own it, right? We can't preserve it if we don't believe it's valuable So I think first by defining it and giving people space to then say, okay, this deserves study and then letting people Operating that because a lot of there's a lot of languages that get impeded by power structures Whether that's governments whether that's institutions and academics that say this is invaluable because I don't speak that or that looks like You're dumb or that looks like you're you know, you don't belong here, right? I think redefining what is language for people um And redefining and taking away things that says this is bad and this is good or this is right and this is wrong Redefining what standardization is like okay american standard english is just one variety not the variety How we talk about it will change how things get preserved as well So a lot of it's just education And then a lot of it is patronizing only one of the things about spoken word arts or arts in general In order to preserve it is we have to go out and seek it out Right vote with your dollars support artists support their movements get involved I might not be a spoken word artist, but I can be an enthusiast and I can learn about it And I can give back by what is through my scholarship or just going to spoken word everywhere every city I go That's what I used to do. Let me find spoken word cafes. Let me find that You know, so it's also patronizing these are you training the arts. Yeah, I mean not patronizing patronizing the arts You know giving your dollars to things you believe and giving your time to things because it's not just dollars We aren't we are I'm not rich by any means. I'm a phd student But I gave my time. Yep. I gave my dedication to Wanting to learn about this and they were very much like wow you really want to do a dissertation on this Yes, because it has value Yeah yeah It seems as though there's pretty much an infinite amount of permutations that exist for ways to leverage arts to awaken people to Culture that is that can be preserved. We can leverage art to preserve culture And it can be patroned by people that Both want to go and attend with their time and experience and also just financially monetarily there's there's a big Issue that we have happening right now where it's as though these top billionaires on the planet are choosing Again, whether it's consciously or unconsciously They're choosing to purchase additional boats planes cars designer clothes You name it and they're not choosing to support the 50 percent of the population That still makes less than two dollars and 50 cents a day Which is our cost of a cup of coffee, right? so There is a big consciousness shift that needs to happen from that top perspective about the use of arts and the way that arts can actually do things that eventually We'll all want which is to know how we even got here in the first place So use the arts to preserve things that give us a better understanding of cultural evolution How we actually got here and then have it and then have it recorded You know, have it recorded have it accessible documented. Yeah But you know, and this is what I love about language language has power Not, you know, and obviously I've seen that by watching spoken word artists, but by giving things a label We give it We say it exists, right? Like people always say why do we have to come up with this word? Called intertext I mean intersectionality Or why do we have to come up with this word toxic masculinity? Because if I can name it then I can identify it. I can see it. I can figure out how I feel about it I can position myself closer or away from that, right How we define what is even art? Right is necessary because a lot of people think of arts. It's ballet. It's sculpting. It's these high art Right, and then these folk arts get kind of other and outside it And if we also because there's so many people that might still ask me well, what is spoken word? They don't know about it, right? So part of it is one redefining what is art Um, what gets value will again get a name, but then talking about it Um, sharing it with others, right exposing it, right? Because a lot of what I've learned about in black culture is certain So things haven't existed long before I started studying them, but I just wasn't hearing about it Histories weren't being passed down that preserved it because people would just say oh, well, you know This is just what I know. It's not a value. It's not a view I don't need to talk about this anymore And so we would be losing in my history for instance in my family certain stories or oral histories that I'm like what I have a father that did this. I have a you know A relative that did that we don't talk about it, you know and by not talking about it by not sharing and passing down even the stories or traditions or Calling it art. We don't give it space to be preserved This is the other big challenge of our times is The economic machinery is just choking people and it's making it so that I can't even afford time on Love yeah on friends on passions on nature Passing down traditions. Yes passing down traditions traditions Sleep has taken the biggest toll which directly affects our physiology And our moment-to-moment health. So we're literally deteriorating when we sleep for six hours instead of that. You talking to a grass dude is so All of these is choking us. It's choking us people can't The something that's so deeply important is being able to fall in love to experience a deep profound love to have A so a robust social network with five or ten Really good friends cooking meals growing food Experiencing all these things has taken a huge backseat to the fact that I got a rod and work all day long Yeah, if you're in survival mode, there's not time for this stuff, right? If you're literally I mean and I'm speaking literally from a grad experience If I got to choose between doing laundry and feeding myself and doing this paper and do I think that's where we are. There is not enough time to enjoy life to build community If you can't build community, how can I see myself in another person's experience? If I can't talk to someone, how do I pass down these past down these traditions? If I don't have time to If I'm working 10 jobs, how do I have time to go and see this great artistic space? Right. I mean, what do you do with that when you're in hustle mode all the time? Yeah, and that's something I'm learning to That was reflected in the spoken word culture. A lot of them Had to actively work to preserve these spaces and weren't sleeping These were artists that were just saying, you know, I'm gonna take away from sleep because I find this art in this life And this poet thing so important not only because it's feeding me But because like literally feeding me in terms of like putting money in my pocket But it's feeding my community Emotionally healing trauma, right? So a lot of the arts that was they were going off for four hours of sleep to give back to the art But is that helping? I don't know. You know, you got to make you're robbing peter to pay paul in a sense To figure out what is a value to preserve myself? All right, or to be economically viable or to be community centered It's choices And this redesign of our global social fabric is a main future focus Yet in order to do so with the greatest amount of awareness We need to start with the first principle of the deepest amount of the one the interconnectedness There is no separation the unity with all of the other species on this planet The interconnectedness of our ecological systems that sustain us if a child is taught all of that upon birth And they're able to experientially know it and share it in project-based learning around solving the sustainable development goals during their educational process learning social emotional intelligences If all of that happens that new future that new social fabric has the breathing space for all of these great things that we've been talking about Right, but otherwise right now at times It just feels like there is just a couple of people in the planet That are just siphoning off all of these new emerging market fruits of all these new emerging technologies that are coming And people are stuck. We're just stuck median male income in the u.s Flatlining GDP skyrocketing. Where is all the money going? We know where it's going right it's going to the top 1% We know it's not it's not aware anymore. It's so we know and next is If you're not willing to pay a half a percent tax on all wall street transactions To try and fund these types of educational first principled ideas Then you are not enlightened whatsoever and you have no place at all in the discourse period, but if your systems Say capitalism right which says competition is good and I have the right to go out and earn as much as I can get Right to be as successful as I can get based on my own merit And I got here by my own doing and I have the right to collect as much wealth as I want There is no we embedded in that kind of structure in and of itself right so then to say 1% can you please pass down some and Say no to opportunities say no to wealth and you know for the greater good That's not built into the structure that allowed them to get that wealth, right? And you know community Have you heard of inclusive stakeholder? No It's just like how You know you're like back in the tribal days You're you're or even today your mom will not tell you something to try and like get money from you Your mom and dad are telling you things because they care about you right and just like your tribe members Would it's inclusive fitness would tell you stuff Don't go over there You know eat this and eat that etc because they cared about you and the rest of the tribe members Now you have people that tell you things to earn money from you right and it's big food It's transactional. Yeah transactional relationship. Yeah, and so an inclusive stakeholder solves that by doing things like When you when you do something like When you have a physician the physician has a stake in the actual patient that is visiting them The teacher has a stake in the student right right these types of things or you can even go to the Company level and say that okay fine. Well a company like uber you find yourself in downtown san francisco You have employees and shareholders and shareholders and investors These are the people that are funding most of it. Yes Go ahead and take the shares that you would like at the same time Allocate shares to the drivers that are driving to create your wealth allocate shares to the customers that are buying the fairs That are then also creating your wealth and the community of san francisco that you have your headquarters in These are really important aspects to the design of the new social contract that make it so that everyone takes the fruits And not just a select few right but again you have to be socialized into that thinking Right from very early on Community is we throw that word around but what does that really mean? Right if if your community are the people who just look like you other people was in the one top percent Of the people you believe that got where they you know They should get because they deserved it right if that's your community It's limited to that but if your community is again, I say I see myself as a global citizen my But I also see myself as part of the african-american community the academic community is also being recognized I I'm part of multiple communities at the same time right um And i'm not limited to one and that does not mean that I can only move in this space but I see myself in these Different perspectives as part of these different groups But I've been socialized by people before me by my mentors by my family to see myself that way I I have friends that grew up right down the street from me that don't see themselves They just see themselves in Atlanta community or the black community or you know, whatever job they're in and i'm sure the same way everyone has to kind of Be told Yes, there's this local thing There's this family thing, but then there's this national thing. There's this global thing. There's this ecological thing Yeah, the scales. Yeah, and that's actually what I bring in my research because I'm like, there's so many levels to this But if you can't see those levels as connected then you do move in this like one dimensional space. Yes. Yes. Yes So these are the world view augmentations to be able to actually see those different scales and to truly Also experientially know the truth of those scales that you don't just go and get something from a store for a sheet of paper And then just toss it later and then just that all no these things are sourced from somewhere manufactured somewhere Then shipped across oceans and they land in the stores and you spend time making money And then just goes into landfill. You know, this is a very complicated intricate process That if you've never actually went to the extent of trying to understand you will continuously immerse yourself in ignorance and and I Will I will until the day I die Be chipping away at the boulder of ignorance that is attached to my ankle And I and I will keep going and I will keep learning and I will keep trying to learn the most important things That I think can build that future world that I want to live in And to have that style of passion In instilled whatever works for people on their climb up the mountain. It's not a one size fits all thing Whatever way works for you to climb up the mountain towards your gifts towards the oneness Right do it but go and know that that is one of these first principles in that you can't you can't just Plop a child onto the monopoly board of the economic machinery, right, right but again, it's It's how we talk about things At a very basic level. I mean when you can't have conversations around dinner table, which doesn't even happen, right? But you know I look at and I try to give people a break because I understand I heard this From I can't remember who it was that everyone wakes up in their own time, right? Like, you know It's easy to look at someone that says oh, you're not part of this greater consciousness at one point I wasn't either right someone had to wake me up, right? I don't know who it was Maybe it was a collective that did it or multiple interactions that did it but along the way as I woke up I can't look back at someone and say oh You just not woke. I wasn't either. We all wake up at different times, right? But it's being aware that if I Now that I am woke, how can I talk to other people in ways with compassion with kindness? You know with understanding of that they're on their own trajectory that will maybe just be a seed You know just plant a seed or water that and I look at and I It's just a random example like you were just talking about Seeing source material as being part of this bigger structure I remember looking at a tv show where these kids They were people were judging. Oh, they just don't eat healthy. They just don't eat the healthy. You know just judging them They had no idea a ketchup came from a tomato It was so fascinating. I can't remember was the show I think his name was jamie oliver was trying to do in the states to revolutionize how cafeteria gets Cafeteria food gets talked about and dealt with in low-income spaces It's very easy to say you're just not eating healthy and just write people off as being ignorant Right, but if kids had never known here's a tomato and here's ketchup Here's chicken nuggets that comes from chicken here is fries that come from a potato Right, they had no idea because no one had introduced them to that right But they were just moving about in the world just saying I eat chicken nuggets I eat fries and I eat ketchup and that's all I know but people were judging them as being ignorant Right, but when jamie came in and introduced them and gave them a picture of no this comes from this And this is farmed from farmers. Yes, and this was planted in this way and this is going to feed this economy Right these kids were excited about it. They did not want to know Right, it wasn't like they were like, I don't want to know. I'm gonna walk around with blinders Someone had to introduce them to that in a very non-threatening way Without judgment. We also can't just be talking to people and saying you should give up power You should do this because you you know, you're horrible There has to be a way to have these conversations in the place that yes, it's critical But that allows people to wake up in their own time. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that's great. Tiffany. Thank you so much for that. That was so nice. I really appreciate it and And that's a really good example of just a way to just introduce that compassionate style of education and Yeah, that's that's really because academy can be very judgmental and and elitist and I don't want to be that So I try to think about it from a place of compassion I have a final question. Okay What do you think is most beautiful? Oh my gosh That is so difficult. Um I think and this is it sounds so loaded, but I was talking about it Um with a friend today who's actually here. Um, we talked a lot about this and I think we're kind of talking about it now empathy Right, um Not just sympathy and being able to look down at someone say oh poor you But to be able to look at someone's experience as different as it is and to find something of connection That then makes it relevant to you I might not have literally walked in your shoes Like I might not have not grown up in this context that you existed, but I appreciate family I appreciate I have struggled before therefore I can respect that your struggle while looks different It still makes sense to me, right? It's still understand that I want you to achieve and to grow and to dream and to Right like to look at someone that you might not have absolutely nothing in common with But to work to find commonality In some way if nothing else and just being in the We're in the human experience of trying I feel like everyone's doing the best they can if nothing else I think that's beautiful to give people that kindness in this world of unkindness Hope that's not sappy But as someone who has struggled a lot as a blackedemic As a black female as a black scholar as a first generation scholar in my family What has made me continue to do this is those people who I've empathized with me and helped me along the way That little bit of extra love empathy butterfly effects out in the actualization of the gifts And then I will do that again for someone else Yeah Thanks, thank you. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you for inviting me. This was fun. Good. I'm glad you had fun Thanks for all your great work. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you Thanks everyone for tuning in. We really appreciate it. We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode Let us know what you're thinking Check out all of Tiffany's links in the bio below as well You can also find the american anthropological association links in the bio below support them as well You can find all of our show links as well in the bio You can support the artists the entrepreneurs the spiritual leaders the organizations in your communities and around the world that you believe in Support them and help them grow patron the arts Please patron the arts You can find all of our links to patreon cryptocurrency paypal design where you get paid all those links in the bio below And go and build the future everyone manifest your dreams into the world. We love you very much Thank you for tuning in build the next world. We'll see you soon Thank you