 Good afternoon everybody. My name is David Jordan. I am one of the co-directors of the Freeman Air and Space Institute and welcome to this event. We have of course a number of you joining us and the numbers go up with every word I speak and I will intend to start in just a couple of minutes at 1600 hours to allow the maximum number of people to have joined. We are on the hashtag, hashtag Freeman space. If any of you have any Twitter observations to make please, I regret because of the size of the audience today. We won't be able to take individual questions. There are somewhere in the region of 1000 people who have signed up for the event. So as you can imagine, a fairly large attendance. We're very grateful to all those of you who are attending. I must also express my gratitude to Airbus for their kind support for this event and to our two principal guests of course, Air Vice Marshal Harv Smith and Air Vice Marshal Paul Godfrey. The conversation that they have will be moderated and led by my colleague Dr Sophie Antrobus. And I'm also pleased and very grateful to Air Chief Marshal, Sir Mike Wigston, the Chief of the Air Staff, who needs no introduction to any of you, of course, who's also agreed to say a few words to open the event. This is very kind of him to do so, particularly given his inevitably busy schedule and some might we're most grateful for that. And indeed, so Mike, if I may, could I please hand over to you now and to everyone else, please enjoy the event. Thank you. David, thank you for the introduction and thank you to the Freeman Air and Space Institute for organizing this event, which I can see from the numbers has had a remarkable response so so very well done. I probably don't need to tell this audience that space really matters and space matters to all of us in our private and in our professional lives but that's not something that's probably recognized by large parts of our public and I think we all have a collective responsibility to raise that level of awareness. Because space is changing and space is changing fast and and the opportunities are literally infinite, but we're also seeing some questionable, reckless activity we're seeing equipment being fielded in space and on the earth directed at space which has all of the characteristics of a weapon. Now, we understand what our potential adversaries are doing and we understand why they're doing that they they've watched us they've watched our dependencies from a military perspective on space they've, they've recognized how space gives us that that vital advantage and that that that combat edge. And so why wouldn't they seek to deny us that that important advantage and and seek to make us more vulnerable as a result. And so that's why the Prime Minister's determination and ambition that the UK should be a leader in space is so welcome and in particular the announcement that the Ministry of Defense and Royal Air Force would be establishing space command is something that I think is a hugely important step. We're here today to hear from not from me from to have ice marshals, our first director of space in the Ministry of Defense service Marshall have Smith, and, and our first opportunity to hear from advice Marshall Paul Godfrey the first UK space commander and I think on behalf of everybody who's tuned in today, I wish him every best of luck in his in his new appointment and our heartfelt congratulations. Knowing those two officers as we do, they'll have a lot to say it will be hugely entertaining and we all look forward to hearing what they say. So congratulate Fassie for your immaculate timing coming one week after the integrated review where our ambition in space was restated as a nation, but also coming the day after the defense command paper, in which you will have seen an additional 1.4 billion pounds of investment in our space programs in the Ministry of Defense over the next 10 years, on top of the 5 billion that we're already going to be putting towards sky next six. And Paul will no doubt go into more detail but for me this gives us an opportunity to establish the military command and control that we need so that we can better understand what is going on in space so that we can share that information with our commercial partners and our international partners with a like minded network of nations both military and commercial. It gives us the under the ability to build equipment that gives us that better understanding of what's going on in space and it and it will enable us to continue with our ambition to create a sovereign ISR constellation in due course and and and not forgetting of course the people that we will need as part of this enterprise so again a key part of that is the establishment of a space academy. I'm really proud that the Royal Air Force has been given that responsibility to deliver the UK's first space command on behalf of the Ministry of Defense on behalf of the nation, we will do it alongside the Army Navy and of course, UK and we will do it with people from the civil service from across government from from industry and of course all three services. It's a really exciting time that it's generated a huge amount of interest, just just looking at the numbers that have tuned in today alone. It's not overstating it to say that it is for the Royal Air Force a key waypoint in our history and something that I that I'm sure that in decades to come people will look back on this period and the establishment of a meaningful and effective capability in space as another step in the Royal Air Force's journey through through air and space. So thank you very much for today and I hand over to Sophie now who's going to convene the discussion. Good afternoon everybody, it's absolutely fantastic to have so many people attending this event, and my enormous thanks to Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Winston, Chief of the Air Staff for joining us today, really great to have you as part of our event. I'd also of course like to thank Airbus who are our partners for this event, and I'd like to remind everybody here who's attending if you're on Twitter, please use hashtag freeman space to comment on and talk about this event. So I'm without further ado, I'm going to get on with introducing Air Vice Marshal half Smith and Air Vice Marshal Paul Godfrey, great to have them with us. Their careers actually have followed similar trajectories, both qualifying as frontline Harrier pilots have as station commander RF Marum retrained on the tornado, and later as a AC one group also converted to the typhoon. God has also retrained on the typhoon, taking command of our F lossy mouth in 2015. Both followed their station commands with spells and MOD heading up carrier enabled power projection, and an audio date at the USF combined air and space operation center. Harve was appointed director space in the MOD in 2020, and God has takes up command of space command next week on the first of April, also the 103rd birthday of the RAF very momentous event as cast has already alluded to. We're really pleased they're joining Freeman air and space Institute for their first public in conversation event at this important time for UK space power. The conversation will be followed by questions from a panel of defense and space professionals. But first, I'll kick off with a question to get the conversation going between half and goddess. It's just a week until space command stands up. Can you tell us a bit more about the genesis of the space directorate and now of space command over to you. Thanks Sophie that's probably one for me to start and then I'll hand it off to God is and before I get going just thanks very much for the opportunity. It's a it's brilliant to be doing this with Fassie really exciting and you know I have a close connection with Fassie group so it's cracking that we're having this chance today. For me to do my first public engagement with goddess. I just, you made me smile there, I hadn't, I hadn't put two and two together on how close our careers have been to get to this point. I'm just glad that we did the conflict before we came online here and I chose the blue shirt and he didn't so that's good. So you can tell us apart. And the journey to where we are today has been. It's been a really interesting year. This time last year we didn't have a space directorate we didn't have a director. We didn't necessarily have a plan. We certainly didn't have any money. In the, in the bigger scheme of things we didn't necessarily have good cross government governance on space or a good understanding of where we were going. Yes, there was lots going on, but not necessarily done in a coherent way and many people will have heard at different sessions over the year talk about our quest for coherency. And I think here we are a year in, we're definitely there I do think we're firmly on that path to delivering coherency, both in terms of cross government, but also importantly, for the dining in of our own department through defense and the stand up of space command is a real seminal moment there as we put that final piece in, in this puzzle. I would also just reflect on what what the chief said they're right at the start. You know, here we are with the announcement just yesterday of the command paper, where we've publicly let out what our plans are. So, a year in, where we've come from a relatively blank sheet of paper. We've got the money that we need now to put in place a very exciting and ambitious defense space program that is more than where we've been before which was, to all extents, you know that our major program being sky net, and we have ambitions to do way in that, and to use space command as the vehicle to deliver it, everything from sovereign space to main awareness, a free space optical comms laser communications and national space center, a digital backbone through a program, which we're calling Defense Space Game Changer, which is being run through our R&D department. An ambition to establish our own UK built and UK launched Leo, a small stack constellation for multi spectral surveillance. So we're looking at different options for space control, protecting the foundation. And I again cast touched on this idea of a space academy and Goddard's and I have already had some fantastic conversations with the likes of Harwell on how we can leverage some of the great work that's already going on across the enterprise in terms of a space workforce generation so it's been a hugely busy year for us. It's not often you get a chance to take a breath and reflect back on what has gone on in a year and you know our focus has mostly been on COVID and how we live in these strange times but I'm enormously proud of the team in that we've been able to deliver this, especially since we've done the vast majority on things like this like zoom calls, etc. So just shows you what you can do do remotely if you really put the effort in so incredibly proud of where we've got to nice the time to turn what was that proposition into a program. I would like to sign off the financial delegation letters in terms of this is the program. Here's the money now get on and deliver it and all being well in weeks few that will be delivered to Goddard's and then he has the very exciting and the pivotal moment as the Chief talked about of taking all of that and setting the Air Force and broader defence in terms of delivering space for defence on the path to a new defence based program so hugely exciting year, even more exciting years to come. On that point I'll shut up and I'll hand off to Goddard's. I'm sure he's got a view. Goddard's. Yeah, thanks Halve. Not a huge amount more to add, you know, certainly, I'm sure it isn't just the shirts that people will be able to tell the difference between us. Secondly, in order to, you know, I'm enormously privileged to be the inaugural commander of Space Command clearly I'm a technical person currently I'm looking at an iPad that sat on the cardboard box leaning against the window in an upstairs room in the house. So, you know, the only additional would make on the actual question in terms of the genesis is just to thank you to you guys in Space Directorate. Clearly we don't want this to be, you know, too much back slapping but the, I know that you had to start the Space Directorate yourself, you know, so you started that from scratch, even before Space Command was a conversation. So put together what you did get it through you and the team through the processes that you have managed to. This is way more than PowerPoint deep I've just taken on the senior responsible owner for the change what is term the change program to stand up Space Command. And it is pretty fully formed it's way more than PowerPoint deep as I mentioned, you know there's funding there there's structures and there's personnel coming on board. So, you know, whilst it's really exciting. I think you've done a difficult bit I've kind of got the easy bit or clearly the difficult bit if the chief is is still listening. But you know a really exciting time, you know just in terms of timeline it's probably worth mentioning. We brought a few but we've got about 15 people in the command right now and that is really administrative. When we get to the first of April. We're actually going to form at that point we're not going to stand up until early June, when we've actually got headquarters available to get into and do all those sorts of things I'll talk a bit more about what we're going to do. Later on in the year in the questioning I'm sure, but then we, we don't even reach initial operating capability until April next year. So, enormously exciting there's a huge amount of work to be done right at the beginning, but it is very slow steps as we form this, this command and move forward. I'll pause there because I know we've got a few questions coming in and so. Yeah, just, I wondered if you could both reflect on your thoughts on the division of responsibility that is going to be between your two roles and organizations and how you're going to coordinate. I'm assuming you've been discussing that already. Right, shall I go first? I was on a call earlier and as God has just described, you know, we've kind of, this has been fast and furious through this last year to get this all landed. So there is a certain amount of, you know, letting the baby go, handing the baby off to Goddus. I can't think of anyone better to hand it off to so that's good. You know, Goddus and I do go way back. We joined the Air Force together on the very same day. We flew on our first squadrons together at Larbrook. We've kind of followed to the point where our kids even went to the same school. So it is all a bit strange that we've ended up here together, but I can't think of anybody better to hand this all off to. So Goddus and the Space Directorate, what that means is the role that we've been doing specifically on the capability side, we will start to go more hands off there and delegate that out of MOD Centre out to Space Command to do on behalf of the fence. So our role and my role as a director will start to shape more towards the up and I policy strategy, the cross government work, working with Bez, Cabinet Office into number 10, supporting the National Space Council, etc. The kind of international touch points. So it's that more historic role of a director within MOD and then providing the oversight, the direction and in some cases the holding to account of the frontline in terms of Goddus and Space Command on delivering the actual I put for defence and I'll let Goddus talk a wee bit about that and how he sees that going forward. Yeah, you know, we've talked about this before, but I describe it as a Venn diagram, you know, and it's, you know, fairly well on top of each other at the moment in terms of that then, you know, there's a very large shaded bit in the middle. As we work out again, you know, it's probably worth mentioning that we do speak probably not once a day, but multiple times a day and, you know, one of your guys has come across to be the chief of staff in Space Command. So as you've said, you know, everything that you have put together, it is now up to us to deliver and primarily in that military aspect we are joined as the as the chief mentioned. It will be collaborative so we will have interactions with industry, we've already got a commercial integration cell inside our space operations centre. And I think, you know, as the circles of the Venn come apart, I think what will be left in the middle is very much that sort of, you know, the commercial aspects, the industrial aspects there. And UK Space Agency, you know, clearly with your links into biz and the Space Agency, what we're going to do in terms of the future. National Space Operating Centre. And also, I think the partners and allies sit in that middle bit as well. I've kind of been in the role for about five weeks now, you know, it is the fire hose of learning in terms of what you guys have been up to and what is out there in terms of space, whether it's UK or across the world. And I don't want to confuse the issue right now in terms of getting out and dealing with allies and partners, the US and so on. There's been the odd phone call here or there just to, you know, create the initial communications. I think we'll be very close and we've talked about this in terms of how we then step out, speak to people so that you can kind of do the introduction, and then move back and let me continue in that sort of military sense. And, you know, you very much in that policy and cross-white hall way. So, you know, it's definitely a Venn diagram that will change as we go through. And I think that's the beauty of this is we haven't got fixed paths here. We're just going to, you know, there's guidance, there's direction, but I think we've got the ultimate flexibility to change this as we go through. Just following up on that, God has specifically, I guess, and what are your current priorities for space command. I'm thinking not just sort of buildings and people, although clearly that is, but how to build a culture of a brand new command. It's exciting, but it's a big deal. I mean, I've kind of mentioned the cultural aspects there already, Sophie. The joint is a big one for me. We are bound to have done this underneath the Royal Air Force previously, but a, you know, a large joint command, a bit like Joint Helicopter Command, is definitely new. You know, there are aspects there of bringing Army and Navy Air Force civil service and the Chief mentioned it at the beginning and coalescing under the umbrella of space is one thing and a collaborative nature is another. You know, as we said, the fact that this is sponsored by Airbus and FASI are enabling it. And I do see industry, academia, DSDL in terms of the science and technology. It is one big, you know, collaborative group. So we're not going to be sat in the corner of High Wickham doing our own thing and delivering what half throws over the fence. It is collaborating with everyone. And I think that's the, that's the culture. I think the final point on the culture is it would be easy, wouldn't it, to turn up and suddenly everything to be about space. It's not, you know, I think it's clear from the integrated review that space is a very much an enabling domain. You know, as the Chief said, you know, I just our normal lives, let alone the military aspects of things are dominated by space by GPS by communications by satellite TV, you know, timing, all sorts of different things. We need to understand that side of it and we need to, you know, from a military perspective, look at the specifics that we look into, you know, space domain awareness. It's very similar that we'll be looking at spaced every will be looking at, you know, other satellites conjunctions those sorts of things, you know, so that collaborative nature, I think is, you know, 100% key. And it's also clear from the IR that space is an operational domain. If you look at half put out a tweet, maybe six months ago was it half. Talking about activities in the space domain by other nations that, you know, maybe not won't have or didn't have the best intent at that particular time. So I think you'll start to see more of that sort of thing so you know it's about being space advocates not space zealots, and it's about understanding that domain but very much joint very much collaborative. I think I mentioned the timings but in terms of the priorities very quickly. First of April, the space operation center and RF filing girls come under space command their operations that continue so you know despite the fact you mentioned, realistically that you know the first priorities getting the people, the infrastructure and those sorts of things but we can't let those things fail, you know so the operations are absolutely at the top of the tree in terms of priorities with the outcome of the IR fence command paper. So moving forward to the national space strategy in the defense space strategy coming out around June timeframe. The next priority is then understanding and, you know through gathering all the stakeholders together, looking at a capability strategy that we can then take forward for the next 10 1520 years. That's definitely the second and the third comes into you know the space academy part that the harmless mentioned previously in that is part of my role I become what's known as the training requirements authority. And so we need to do a training and needs analysis ultimately that is a cross defense. What do we need to do in training terms. We need to give a space module at Cramwell at Dartmouth at Santa's you know do we start early in all of the training courses with soldiers say that's an airman and just let them know what we do in space, what house space is important. And then also, you know from the academy aspects does spacing itself become a trade group, do we, you know put people through apprenticeships in concert with industry and so on and get MVQs get qualifications out of the end. But then feeds what becomes the, you know, future space enterprise in the UK, not just military so I think that training aspect once we've worked the operational and then the capability side of it will definitely follow on fairly soon so those are the priorities but you're right, getting the people and having a building to go and work from, even though we're used to this virtual working, I think is a high priority. I don't know if half's got anything to add but I'll just throw in one other point and perhaps in about three or four minutes we'll start with our questions session but the final point thrown is just any reflections on the implications of the IR and the command paper yesterday. Over, over to you. I mean just to close out on, you know, God is very eloquently sounded up there and you know their, his priorities as he goes forward there but the, the one thing that we keep discussing is this isn't this is a journey, there's a journey to go on and I mean at the end of a two or three year tour for Goddard's as first commander, we probably won't have all of this line flats and there's an expectation that, you know, there's quite a bit of work to done to be done and we need to be flexible and just as we take this whole construct through not just space command but the broader national space strategy as we deliver that. And I keep banging on about this phrase of you know it's a national space strategy that needs to be delivered in a national way. And the MOD is just one part of that so much more to space than just the military side and the cross government and the international collaboration is incredibly key here and as Goddard stands up space command and gets it off and running, certainly from an MOD center perspective, our focus will really start to shift into that a broader collaboration mode and looking for those partnerships. In terms of IR, so I've lost kind of how many briefs I've given on what the new defined space program could and should be from the Prime Minister to Dominic Cummings to Secretary of State to multiple four stars. You name it, we've briefed them all all the way down to the air cadets who were incredibly receptive and if you're not aware of the air cadets, a space learning package that they've now developed through the open university. Go and have a look at it. It's absolutely exceptional. I only wish we had something like that rolled out in space command on day one it is really really very good. And, but I think the phrase that I started all of these presentations with was, we are at an inflection point. Cass touched on it at the start in terms of the space domain is changing fast here for many years it was relatively benign in recent years, close decades we've seen it exponentially start to change. And specifically in terms of the threats and how it's being contested and congested but specifically for us in the military domain focusing quite acutely on the threat, which grows by the day. And that sat alongside the personal ambition of the top of government and the Prime Minister in particular is very clear on his ambition for where we go with space and how we utilize it as a nation that sees itself as a, you know, an R&D superpower by the year 2030. I think this IR has been an inflection point for us. I think it has given us the stage to really land the narrative about space to properly get formal and overt recognition of the importance of the domain. And in terms of what it does, enabling modern day life, the operational advantage in the military, but also the fact that it is an operational domain in its own right, and it should be treated in that way. No different than we treat airlines, maritime or cyber. I think we have done a cracking job through the IR and the defence command paper on bedding in that narrative. And actually what I'm starting to see, and we wouldn't have seen this a couple of years ago, I'm saying people that don't live in a free space, talking about space in the early parts of any planning discussions they're having. So that in itself has been a real win. And in many ways, and I'm sure Dave Jordan will see the parallels here with his historical comparisons but even in my short 30 years in the service, way back when we used to have to fight and bully our way in to get the IR narrative landed when you were planning joint campaigns. And I felt we kind of won that through recent campaigns were in a decent place and I, we're getting there with space and I'm starting to see people really wake up to the importance of it and the fact that we've got to think about it and we've got to think about it upfront because it's so critical. So if nothing else stand fast the money, the plan, the people and this grand new ambition, which is all brilliant. It has allowed us to properly land the narrative and that is incredibly important because if you can't win that, then you don't go anywhere. So for me that's probably the biggest takeaway of this last year. So I noticed you've come up which is, you know, is definitely the signal that we shut up at this particular point. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The crook that's coming off. I did want to say one thing, you know, the echo everything that Harvard has said about the IR cementing the importance of space. And the stand up with space command I think just in itself whether I get it right whether we get it right or not is enabled already a bunch of conversations that I've had over the last few weeks. So for example, you know, I've got a lot of equity in the carrier strike group 21 that is sailing a bit later this year I had a fantastic conversation with their team. Something with Steve Morehouse the Commodore Steve Morehouse who's the carrier strike group commander down in the Spock last week in terms of you know what information we can give them the fact that we are putting a liaison officer onto HMS Queen Elizabeth and sailing and I think the subsequent subsequent conversation that we've had, she will be I think front and center when it comes to, you know, day to day operations, you know, as well as having a daily weather brief there'll be a daily space weather brief, you know, because that sort of thing is important for satellite communications and so on. So already in that single operation, you know, we're, we're having a conversation. We're going to do the same for land in various operations, you know, and so on as much as we can. And, and, you know, check with the three star new three star MSO this morning. Just the fact that space command has been prominent in the IR has already opened doors. So, you know, we've just got to keep them open from now on. Thanks. Thanks, scholars. That's fascinating. Really interesting about the Space Liaison Officer on Queen Elizabeth. I'm going to hand over to our first questioner, managing director of Airbus Defence and Space our partner for the event. Over to you, Richard, for your question. Thank you, Sophie have got us. Thank you very much for bringing to life in a little bit more detail in your joint visions. And as the UK sovereign space prime, we of course welcome the strong confirmation to both Skynet six, the five billion, and especially the 1.4 billion to include the new UK built is air constellation you refer to, and this new supporting digital backbone in space. Could you provide some more detail on what those two new programs may include. And now that you've landed the narrative in the IR and DCS. How can we move at pace and not have to wait until April next year when it's fully stood up in space command. I can produce. So I was just going to say, to answer the back end of the question, they're rich and firstly, thank you for, as we mentioned before, have us hosting the event here. But you know, as I mentioned where the operational side the spark is still running and the finding else is still running. You know, I was remiss in mentioning that, you know, the communications are still running due to the Skynet constellation that we've got up there. You know, more than anyone, the capability aspects of that are up and running they sit with Stratcom at the moment, and we just literally we have just come off mating myself and half with the guys in Stratcom in terms of, you know, when I talked about a sort of two circle then actually this is a three circle then diagram with Stratcom. And one of the things that we did mention in there is that we have to do exactly what you're saying over the next year we cannot wait until space command has reached IOC we will be running this capability stuff we will be informing Stratcom and informing us and the conversations that we have around this are key because it ties into the ISR side of things as well you know where are we going in the future how is this going to look what are our science and technology demonstrators at the moment that I'm sure we'll see more of in the next couple of years. So you're 100% right we cannot wait until then and I'm fortunate in that the small capability team that has come across from air command into space command and by Group Captain Rainer, oh it's done a huge amount in terms of capability there. You know yourself you know the amount of interaction in around with industry and so on so I think you know for me in space command it is key that we keep doing those things I'll just I'll hand off across the half of the first part of that. So thanks Richard. Probably two things which are most opposite. One is a program called Minerva, which has had the two been called the Space Game Changer, which we landed through the IR, and it's actually being funded through the R&D pipeline and sponsored by the Defense Innovation Unit. So the Space Game Changer in very short hand is looking at the digital architecture demonstrating meaningful open digital architecture enabled by space based assets so that we can move comms and data at speed around the globe. Minerva is just standing up, the SRO will be Jules Ball, my one star, and we will run that with the R&D team to a point when Godderson Space Commander are suitably established with the right people etc and then we'll hand it off, but we're not going to stand still on it. It looks like the money was protected through the IR, perhaps not all of it, but enough to certainly get it going. And that work will be kicking off here in earnest. So it goes to the IAC this Thursday and Jules is in front of that board, landing the deal. The last point, sorry Sophie, the last point which would be of interest to you is, as well you know we have the Artemis program in terms of Leo Smallsac Constellation Aspirations. There are also multiple other programs around the bazaars, mostly sitting in DSTL as TDPs. And I have just recently directed the team to bring all of that work together into a single ISR project. And to take the goodness out of each of those programs and look at how we would harness all of that into a single meaningful ISR program. It's delivered and sit within a pipeline of different activities. And the pipeline concept is just going to the four stars this week. And again, you know, hot off the press type thing, we're just, we're just, I was just closing I don't know today with my team. So it's still early days as to what that will look like, but the team are working through that at the moment. What I would say is Goddard's and I, there's a bit of settling on this through the next couple of months. And then in and around the June, July time, we are looking to plan for a space industry engagement, most probably a day event where we can put much more meat on the bones of all of this to industry and clearly demonstrate where our minds are more importantly where the opportunities are to define how we intend to take it forward. Hopefully that helps probably not the full answer you were after but hopefully you know we're on a, we're on a path. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks so much. I'm now going to hand over to for a question to Lord David Willis, our conservative here. Good to have you here Lord Willis. My name is Sophie and it's been fascinating to hear about this initiative and which I very strongly support. I want to follow on from Harb's final comment really to ask about the post Galileo environment. What plans he might have on position navigation and timing. The extent to which now that the government has its strategic stake in one web. He sees one web as an asset, especially as we move from Gen one to planning for Gen two, that he would incorporate in his planning. Well, it's good question. I am very timely, given recent discussions in the House of Lords, etc, which we very happily supported, but firstly I'll caveat upfront in that the space based P&T program doesn't doesn't sit within the fence. And it's actually being delivered from within the space agency, under the SRO ship of in Alex, who's doing an exceptional job. If I can be so bold as to say, putting proper programmatic rigor around that a space based P&T program, which was originally the UK process program and then we did a major reset through last summer, which was absolutely the right thing to do. The states that we're at at the moment. So I sit on the sponsors group of that program alongside the SRO and various others. I've gone out with an RFI industry, all the industry inputs have come in, and we're just going through the down select process actually we did quite a bit in this work last week, looking at what's meeting the different requirements set. The key takeaway for me is, and this I think was the sticking point for what was UK GNSS at the start, we don't want to just simply replicate what already exists. We don't want to copy a GSS or a Galileo. We don't necessarily want or need 24 satellites in MEO. We want to do P&T resilience in a different way, so that we can offer that in terms of a meaningful resilient option to others, so that we have a seat at the table. And particularly with our US counterparts who are really interested in what ideas we can come up with that aren't 24 satellites in MEO. On the topic of OneWeb, I think from what I would observe is OneWeb have played in to the RFI. So they've offered, here's how we think we could skin that cat in terms of provision of P&T resilience using mostly low earth orbits. Being considered as part of that broader discussion at the moment, it's too early to say how that's going to shape up. I probably wouldn't even offer a view on it since I'm not the SRO. But I think the next three to six months will be quite pivotal and interesting as we start to just narrow down on what could be on offer here. And obviously OneWeb will undoubtedly be part of the discussion. I think the only thing I'd add to that, Lord Willits, is I think the point that HALF makes at the end with OneWeb being part of that particular conversation is this will be the way of the future. That sort of dual role, multi-role aspect of whatever we have in orbit, whether it's low earth orbit, whether it's medium or geostationary earth orbit. I know from a capability perspective, clearly that is something, especially as technology increases day by day, that you know we'll be looking at all the time, whether it's dual use military, civilian, whether it is just multi-role in that particular satellite. Thank you very much. Our next question is from Dr John Paffett, who's managing director of space-focused SME KISP. Over to you, John. Thanks Sophie. HALF got us. It's great to listen to you earlier and it's really good to see space getting recognised in the IR. And obviously we wait eagerly to see the release of the space strategy. The UK for many years has been at the forefront of space system developments and pioneers in areas like the small satellites and small satellite engineering. A lot of that capability that exists and a lot of the innovation arises within small to medium enterprises. If space is going to be incorporated into a future defence strategy in the way that we think it is going to be, what procurement and engagement reforms are anticipated so that the SMEs could be better engaged and the capabilities can be accessed and leveraged. Shall I start on that one, I'll hand off. Yeah, go ahead. First of John, thanks. I had a great discussion earlier today with Anita, so he's keeping me on the straight and narrow as ever. But I would just say, so you're absolutely on the money. The requirement for agile acquisition and acquisition transformation has not gone unnoticed. It's a definite area that we've discussed. My daughters and I have talked about it. We've had a great discussion with DNS who have moved that pace and are on the cusp of redesigning a new space delivery team. So Simon Bollum is completely bought in. We had a session with him and his management board recently, and he was absolutely adamant that this new space DT would be doing things in a much more agile, different fast paced manner. Not your normal cabinet cycle, lethargic big programs that we've seen in the past. We just can't afford to be like that with some of this capability or we'll just get outpaced by the technology. We've been doing everything we can in terms of trying to demonstrate the intent of a defense space to move at pace. You'll have seen some of that last November when we did the International Space Pitch Day. And we let upwards of a million pounds worth of contracts through a Dragon's Den affair. You know, we are desperately keen to look at best practice in the commercial sector. We've been speaking with companies like Seraphim, venture capitalists, all sorts. You and I have spoken, albeit a little while ago, but we are definitely looking to leverage the commercial aspect of space acquisition. And you mentioned the strategy. The basis of the strategy will be this idea of what do we need to own, where do we need to collaborate, and what can we simply access. You know, the access is easy. We're just buying off the shelf because of existence. Somebody's doing it the way we want it already. So we'll just buy that. But where do we own and where do we collaborate? I think the collaborate bit, there is as much in that in terms of partnerships and capability as there are in learning from industry on how to do agile space acquisition. And we have a hill to climb here. I am absolutely sure of that. And I think just going back to my point earlier about June, July for a space industry day. This is a topic that certainly I would like to have talked about at that industry day and perhaps have industry do some presentations to us on. Here's how we think you could do this in a quicker, more agile way. This phrase that we've been using through the IR at the speed of relevance in an information age, operating and delivering at the speed of relevance, absolutely key. And that's as much to do with acquisition and sustainment models as anything else. But anyway, I'll hand over to Goddard's there. Clearly, you've said everything I was going to say how they're honest. No, just a couple of extra things actually from a from an air command perspective, their space team have moved over to us. And I think what they have learned from the air command capability teams over the last few years is the benefits of that rapid capability office that has been put together. So, you know, a small team of people that is is able to kind of, you know, primarily the sort of the commercial aspects of this really quickly and get into that, you know, sometimes overused term but that fail fast. And I think what we've learned from that. I know, you know, many of you out there will have heard of the carbonite satellite which was eight months for a small satellite to be put into orbit to give the first, as I understand it, color video from lower orbit as a technology demonstrator. And I think what we've learned there will be as I mentioned, you know, that was part of the discussion with Simon bollum and DNS so even in some of those bigger procurement programs, you know, where SkyNet is definitely knows that there will be, you know, some due process to follow. I think across the rest of the rest of the enterprise. We can definitely definitely definitely speed things up. I know Sophie's coming one final point is that Harvard and I did a, I'd never been to Harwell before a space cluster. So that's a place up in Abingdon, 105 different companies, a thousand people all in the space industry. And Dr Joanna Hart when she showed us around there, you know, I've never seen in this we work with the space cat catapult people. We went to Oxford space systems we went to a multitude of different places we saw the satellite test facility that is going up there. I think it's harnessing something like that what goes on there and already after that day, I'm already looking at maybe putting either two or three days a week maybe all week, someone working up there, just to start seeing what's out there joining the dots and see what we can do So we're, there's how I mentioned at the beginning, you know, we talk about being right at the beginning of the journey. But I think that journey is going to be flexible as we move along as long as we get the right people in the right places. That's fascinating. Thanks, goddess. I'm next going to hand over to Darren Jones MP who is chair of the base select committee Darren over to you. Thanks, Sophie and congratulations to you in the Institute for such a great event today I think the numbers of participants show how topical this is. Lord will it's anticipated my question on one way which we're inquiring into at the moment so I won't push you further on that. But with my other hat on as a member of the National Security Joint Committee. I'm interested to hear your views about how we meet the ambitions in the integrated review for a more integrated approach across government departments. And therefore what an operational level. Do you anticipate we'll need to change in terms of your day to day delivery and leadership between the MOD and probably the cabinet office and base. That's probably one for me and I actually think we're already well done that journey. Mostly because of the space the outcome of the space landscape review which we undertook through last year which no doubt you're aware of. And where that has left us is, well, your own departments in base standing up an equivalent space director with a director space which is proving already it's, it's weight and gold with Rebecca Everett in there and the team starting to build. And that's the fact that we're able to do that to work together director to director we speak practically every day. And in many ways this is this, this idea of my role here with a foot into cross government and speaking to Rebecca with her and I co leading this virtual national space policy units, delivering against a national space strategy which has been agreed up through the Space Council by the PM etc. And then my other foot down and in into space command, linking all of that national strategy and the collaboration cross government into commercial civilian etc. And ensuring that what's being delivered through defense is coherent with that. So it's, it's quite a critical role. This director space and space director within MAD in terms of a coherent cross government space governance. I think we're well on a path to that. Just the fact that we've got the two space directorates is helping the fact that we're doing a joined up co authoring approach to the national space strategy, and importantly have now established all the right three star and two star working groups to bring in all the other relevant departments of state DFT, DCMS etc etc are now all coming to those three and two star meetings, and offering up their requirements from space, and we're ensuring that they're captured within a national space strategy. And it comes back to that point of mind from earlier on, national space strategy delivered in a national way, where all departments of state are pulling together to deliver it. We just happened to be on point and Secretary of State for base just happens to be under the spotlight from the PM, but doing a phenomenal job pulling that all together and in fact we've got another session this Thursday with Secretary of State for base and we're already at a point where we're discussing a 10 point plan, what the meat should be on the bones of the skeleton for the strategy. I think it's going to be really very exciting. You know, I think we're definitely on the right path to deliver a coherent product. I think the gist of your question there do do we do are we going to do this in a coherent way. And I'm very confident that we've now got the right governance structure in place to allow for that. Hopefully, hopefully that answers. There was just one thing I was going to add, you know, from the sort of the military perspective from the Space Command perspective, I think that coherence is key to come on a control aspect of that. And, you know, space and cyber quite a lot go in the, in the same sentence these days but the, you know, the National Cyber Force and how they are doing things are working closely there or at least observing and looking for lessons identified and how they are doing their work to see what is relevant on our side of things I mentioned earlier you know I had a really good conversation with the three star that will sit working for CDS in the in our strategic headquarters in in MOD today just coming into the job in the in the next couple of weeks, General Walker. And it was very much that that you know these sorts of considerations how the, all of the cross government levers work to get the right effect at the, at the end of the day. Thanks. Thanks so much for that. And next question. We've got three more we'd really like to fit in and only a little bit of time so we'll see what we can do. I just like to call on Colonel Mike Faiz who's a student on the High Commander staff course and joins us obviously with a an army hat on. Thank you very much, very kind words. So thank you to the society this afternoon I have a question really that I think builds upon some of the previous themes about the importance of the domain coordination across government and coherence. And it's really about a question about modern deterrence. So I wonder, in modern deterrence is a really prominent theme, both in MOD NATO and with our allies with clear implications on society industry members here today. Another government agencies and I wonder if you could share your thoughts on how space deterrence might be created from UK perspective with the announcements we saw yesterday and also how this might contribute to a wider deterrence mandate. Thank you. That's a good question. If I jump in there quickly have leave you with a difficult bit. I think, you know, one of the things deterrence comes about when we can tell people about what capabilities there are and what is happening up there, you know, most of the time, and, you know, certainly in recent past, quite a lot of war is happening in the space as in some of the other domains actually is highly classified. So I think what we need to do. And I know the US are looking at this as well is, you know, I'm going to say the term declassification program that's, you know, it's nothing that formal initially, but start to look at where we can talk to you know there's 1000 people on this event where we can talk to the general public, as well as everyone else in terms of why we are doing certain things why we are putting a particular satellite up there, because of certain things that are happening and I mentioned at the beginning, you know, the, it seems like a big thing that we managed a tweet, but half putting out the tweets that was calling out, you know, nefarious behavior in space is the start of that journey to understanding the deterrence aspect because I think once we're over that particular hump, and we can demonstrate why is an operational domain why isn't enabling, then, you know, we can get into why we have particular capabilities while we're partnering, you know, we haven't gone too far yet but you know whether it's NATO whether it's the sort of five I construct the combined space operations construct getting agreement getting consensus within those, I think is incredibly important so that, you know, we it is not just the UK trying to do this it is a whole range of partners but but for me it is that declassification, so that we can talk about a lot of these things. I would just, let me just close off their Sophie just by saying it's a, it's a very live topic, we've just commissioned some work to take through this summer, in terms of a food for thought papers for NATO, particularly through the lens of spaces deterrence. You know what we what we in the UK have may have delivered through the IR still doesn't necessarily deliver us in the UK, the complete capability to be able to do space on our own so this idea of a yes communicating having the credibility and having the capability, the capability for us needs to come through the lens of the collaborations that we have and natives absolutely key to that. I'm just about to bring a new member on my team, who have particularly specifically headhunted out of the cabinet office who's been doing deterrence through the IR to take on this work through the summer. Angus labs is really focused on it, and as is the Secretary of State, but we need to remember two things one that just deterrence doesn't necessarily have to happen in a single domain. There might, there might be something happening in space, but we could deterrent another domain let's say cyber or, or whatever. And the other that actually where the UK is really leading here in terms of deterrent posture is on the soft power side, and the work that we've been supporting through FCDO into a new UN resolution in terms of acceptable space norms of behaviour. And if we, if our plans come together this autumn you'll see us do an FCDO sponsored Wilton Park affair where we're bringing in members from all over the globe to absolutely land this new narrative and force through the resolution on a new acceptable norms of behaviour that in itself is the starting point for what deterrence can be over. And finally, we're really nearly out of time I'm just going to maybe let things run over a minute or two just to bring in. I'm going to bring in together first Ali stickings from a research fellow at Lucy, and secondly group crash Captain Chris Mullen, and HCSE RF student, and I'm going to get them to ask their questions one after the other and then I'll just let you both pick up as we can from each of those questions to finish wrapping up. So first off Ali over to you. Thanks Sophie. My question actually follows on from what have just just finished speaking about looking at those norms of responsible behaviour. And maybe just if you could expand a bit more on how you envisage the role of space command in, you know, any future UK work on this how it's moving forward what's the relationship with FCDO on this and your thoughts more broadly on how you see the responsibility of militaries and defence internationally within these dialogues. And any future agreements that go forward on on limitations on capabilities on on on what behaviors are acceptable because you know so far we haven't seen. I don't think defence as involved in these discussions as perhaps we'd like to see. Chris David to you. Okay, and it's as if you state manage this as my question really kind of links into allies. I mean, the chief did talk about, again, about those normative behaviours but questionable activity and the weaponisation of space by some of the states. However, this last week we've seen Astra, Astra scale launch LCD in terms of debris clearance which uses rendezvous technology, which from a dual use perspective presents that dilemma of weaponising space. So whether it's maybe working through the UN and working from Space Command, I want to comment on how we can use industry and the commercial sector to try and shape those normative behaviours and to shape what is acceptable as we move forward. So shall I shall I start goddess and say, you know, we, so on the on the norm side, I mean obviously we're so first thing fcdo is in the lead. We're supporting, we've been very, very closely supporting. And your goddess has touched on it a couple of times in terms of us overtly calling out nefarious activity, etc. And you know that in itself just getting to that point where we could have that type of public engagement does take some quite depth across government collaboration and a coherent approach, but we've got very good mechanisms in place now. I would just say that from a going forward perspective, even with the Space Command stand up, we would still because this very firmly sits in the policy area. And very firmly sits in terms of strategic messaging. We would still see space directorate being the touch point in the cross government liaison on how we would do that type of engagement. But that doesn't mean to say we may not then use Space Command to enact some of that. And we would have to see how that would play out. I would just say on your point, Ali, I actually this this one topic of norms and behaviors has been a real focus area for shriever war games. So from a military perspective, we have been intimately looking at it, and really starting to develop our thinking, not just nationally, but across the Alliance, and that in itself has been a challenge, because obviously certain nations have a different approach to what's acceptable and what isn't. So, but the strength in our deterrent posture will come from the Alliance. So we have to have those discussions and we need to work that all through. I think my last point mindful of time is just just on a on your question Chris is absolutely there is as much a role to play here for commercial as there is for military or governments. And I think as we see more and more the commercialization of space and big proper big companies, you know, batting at a level that is equivalent to a state nation, like SpaceX, etc. And they will be will be before long that we see people like SpaceX have much as much of a say in what goes on up there as a as a statewide. So that kind of brings me back to that starting point. That's why it's important to really get lying flat. The recognized and accepted international norms of the regulations that will govern a space that is actually future proofing rather than looking back to a 1967 outer space treaty. The only thing I'd add to that is, is allied to that 1967 space treaty in that it's not surprising really that, you know, when we talk Grey Zone when we talk sub threshold, but a lot of these things happen in space domain happen in the in the cyber domain, because of the unregulated nature of these domains so it has to be a sort of global ambition is, you know, as we progress here to start bringing in, you know, norms and behaviors regulation that sort of thing you know just talking about the amount of satellites there's two and a half thousand satellites up there at the moment have just mentioned Starlink and SpaceX. You know, possibly 15,000 possibly 30,000 satellites in Leo, you know, and that's outside of all the other companies that want to do it China, you know, 40 plus expected the heavy launches this year, you know the place is really getting congested it's been tested. I mentioned the space debris earlier. I think the status 128 million items of space debris and ISS, some of you may have noticed and then news you know released a massive battery pack, two and a half time battery back as big as an SUV. Last week, or the week before and I think the astroscale thing is really interesting as well Chris on your point. Well I think we come back to transparency, because clearly one person's debris cleanup and old satellite cleanup could be another person's nefarious anti satellite kind of instrument. So I think the transparency and what we do which comes back to space domain awareness and getting that information out and about calling out those activities is 100% key. I know we're over time and you know we could probably go for longer on that one but great questions. Thank you. So, so very much and yes I think we could go on for longer perhaps we'll have to have you back again at some point. So, I just want to say, well particularly thanks to you both to have and to God is, and of course, God is very very best of. You don't need luck really but all the very best for your first weeks and months in space command. Also, I'd like to thank Airbus again for their help and support and Chief of the air staff and Chief Marshal some Mike Winston for joining us this afternoon which was a really nice extra pleasure. This big audience it's amazing to see how many hundreds of you have joined in I think when I've mentioned we're at an inflection point it's time to land the narrative of space to see this many people involved means that Freeman Air and Space Institute will obviously want to hold further events and continue these discussions and we'll look at ways of doing that. Now, if you're thinking about future events I'd mentioned for your diaries that will be showcasing women and air and space power on the afternoon of 11th of May, and hosting another fireside chat this time with our Marshal Andy Turner, who's going to reflect on the question about you and yesterday's announcements. So that that is all from me I think that's all my thank yous, and it, and I would also obviously like to thank our panelists for great questions, which provoked lots of interesting answers. I'll let you enjoy your evening, have a lovely one, and thank you again from Freeman Air and Space Institute for joining us for this event. Thank you.