 Activists, artists, and citizens from nearly all walks of life and perspectives have struggled to reach beyond the limits of mainstream media. Whether it's Fox News or The New York Times, Rush Limbaugh, or Brian Williams, many people say they are tired of being talked to or overlooked. They seek to exercise their own rights to free speech, to fulfill a need to hear from independent voices. They exercise their rights and fulfill their needs by creating new avenues for speech, by inventing new forms of communication, and by seizing the microphone to speak to their community. This movement did not begin and does not end with the Internet or social media. It is a movement as old as the dawn of mass media itself. Their series will highlight the contributions of alternative media and the challenges citizens face in a political environment that seems to reward those with the most money. A political environment that does not necessarily reward those with the best ideas or those who serve the critical information needs of their community. We're looking beyond mass media. My name is Mark Lloyd. I'm the director of the Media Policy Initiative here at the New America Foundation. And this is a continuing program in looking beyond mass media. And we are very honored to have some folks from Free Speech Radio Network and some folks who actually carry Free Speech Radio Network on their air. And so next to me is Katherine Kopp. Come all the way down from Richmond to participate in this program. And Allison Olstein, Alice Olenstein, yes, Alice Olenstein. And Askiah Muhammad from WPFW. So Katherine, let me just go from left to right. How long have you been involved with Free Speech Radio Network? Sure. I've been Free Speech Radio News' producer for the last five years from my home in Richmond, Virginia. But I've been contributing to the program since almost it's the very beginning. In 2001, I started contributing when I was a volunteer reporter at a community radio station in Portland, Oregon. And then I moved across the country to New York. I continued filing reports for Free Speech Radio News, relocated to Virginia, continued to do reports, and then became a substitute producer and anchor and eventually was hired to be the lead producer. Oh, great. And Alice, you're the DC correspondent? Yes. I've been doing that for about a year and a half full time and before that part time and before that on a freelance basis pitching stories after I moved here. That's great. And Askiah, you actually carry Free Speech Radio Network on WPFW. How long has that been going on? Well, Free Speech News, I guess, was born in what, 19, in 2001, 2002. We carried it as a standalone program, but it was carried at really an awkward time like 11.30 to midnight or something. There was a conflict. Free Speech Radio News was born out of a conflict with Pacifica Radio News. In many ways, as a successor, it has surpassed the program that it replaced on a number of levels because maybe the money and what have you. But the politics of everything kind of made it like we don't like Free Speech News because it's anti-Pacifica, anti-the old Pacifica, the people who were in charge. But its content is very valuable and useful and reliable and well done, I have to say, even though I may have some, my new critique of this, that and the other. So I think in the main, it's a nine. Well, isn't it the job of news editors to have my new critiques of a variety of things and news products moving forward? So one of the things, there has been a financial challenge that Free Speech Radio Network has faced lately. And I think we've got a clip that we want to show, which is an appeal from a variety of different correspondents. So let's show that when we come back. Let's talk a little bit about where things stand now and moving forward. Yeah. Marina, anchor with Free Speech Radio News. In 2001, a few dozen freelance reporters started producing a weekly program of national and international news. The idea was simple, to produce community-based reporting that featured grassroots voices and stories that weren't being heard in the mainstream. A little more than a decade, we've grown into a daily newscast with more than 200 freelance reporters from across six continents. Free Speech Radio News is heard weekdays on more than 85 non-commercial radio stations from Alaska to Florida, from Nova Scotia to California. We seek out and report the stories from the ground level with local residents and first-person narratives using reporters who often live in the communities they cover. Free Speech Radio News then provides hard news, analysis, features and in-depth documentaries. Reporters seek out and highlight the voices of the marginalized communities. We recognize the benefits of working with contributors of all skin levels from those just starting out to seasoned journalists. Invest time and resources into mentoring new reporters, giving them the training and skills to produce their own stories. Each day at FSRN, we determine our coverage through a collaborative, decentralized editorial process that allows multiple points of view to inform the content of our broadcast. On any given day, our reporters and producers work together from Oaxaca, New Delhi, Los Angeles, Gaza City, Lagos and elsewhere, pursuing stories, tracking down sources and comparing perspectives. The result is a uniquely informative newscast that reflects the diversity of the world we live in. I am Ekaterina Danilova and I live and work in St. Petersburg, Russia. I reported on the growing protest movement and the backlash against the movement for LGBT rights in Russia for Free Speech Radio News. I am Ghassan Bannura, reporter for Free Speech Radio News. I live and work in Bethlehem City, Palestine. I've reported on hunger-striking Palestinian political detainees held by Israel and nonviolent protests organized in the West Bank communities against the Israeli settlements and wall for Free Speech Radio News. I'm Madonna Virola, I live and work in Telopan City, Philippines. I've reported on communities in southern Philippines who are recovering from Typhoon Bofa for Free Speech Radio News. I'm Sophia Harain, reporter for Free Speech Radio News. I live and work in Kito, Ecuador. I've reported on Indigenous rights and leftist movements in Ecuador. I'm Felix Kedke. And I'm Gayatri Parmeshwaran. We live and report from different parts of the world. From countries such as Burma or India to countries like Georgia and the Caucasus for Vienna. We normally focus on human rights issues. This kind of on-the-ground collaborative reporting takes time and requires ongoing, sustained support. We produce our daily program with a small, decentralized staff, so most of our resources go directly to gathering and reporting the news. It's vitally important that we support grassroots journalism like FSRN and make sure that we grow in order to meet the needs of the coming years. We need your help to build the success of the past decade and to keep FSRN on the air. You can take part right now and support FSRN and you can do it in a number of ways. First, you can spread the word and tell others about FSRN's work through our website, our podcast or on social media like Facebook or Twitter. Second, you can volunteer to host a party or fundraiser in your community. Third, you can call your local station and ask them to run FSRN on their program. If they are ready to do, then you can tell them how much you appreciate it. Fourth, you can donate directly to FSRN today. Your donation goes a long way of putting reporters in the field and bringing stories to there. And fifth, become a monthly sustaining member to FSRN to ensure that we continue to reach our audience in new dynamic ways. Find out how to get involved at FSRN.org. Thank you. Thank you. And as the journalists say, Didi Madluba. That's a very nice appeal. So does that work for you? Has that been successful? We found ourselves in a financial crisis in February. Pacifica gives us most of our funding, about 70%, and that has been the case for the last decade. But Pacifica has been going through its own financial problems. And so they haven't paid us very much at all throughout the entire year. Our budget is about $36,000 a month. So we had to come up with a way to meet the gap, fill the gap. And we launched a grassroots emergency fundraiser. We put together that video. And ultimately, in about eight weeks, we raised $100,000 from 1,300 people. And that was pretty historic for us. Our audience is fairly small. So to be able to get that many people donating their money and wanting to save FSRN was really a landmark achievement for us. But there's still a long way to go because, as I mentioned, our budget is about $3,600 a month, or $36,000 a month, I'm sorry. So we do need to seek out other sustainable ways of funding FSRN. So let me ask you for folks who are completely uninitiated. Why is this service any different than CNN? Why is it any different than BBC Radio? What do you get from Free Speech Radio Network that you don't get from these other sources? Alice? Sure. I think it has a lot to do with the kind of voices that we seek out and put on the air, especially in the 24-hour news cycle and the tight deadlines and the need to constantly be producing pieces. It's always easiest and quickest just to go to an elected official or call someone on a press release or call up a spokesperson from a major organization. We and our reporters around the world really do the work of finding the people who are directly affected by whatever it is we're reporting on and getting their first-person account of what it is and how they're organizing in their community and what they're doing to try to create change. And I think that is a really important part of what we do. And I think that shows a lot in our reporting. So again, I'm certain that there are folks who listen to NPR who say, well, don't they do the same thing? I mean, would you be able to make a distinction between your reporters and the different reporters on NPR? Yeah, I think so. NPR does great work, and they do have reporters internationally. But when you hear many of their reporters, they have an American or British accent. They don't use a lot of reporters who were born and raised in the communities that they're covering. And that's what really sets FSRN apart. Sure we do have some Western journalists who've decided to move abroad, but the majority of our journalists have been living in the communities where they're reporting for a long time or they're from there. So one thing that you'll hear when you listen to free speech radio news and we're a daily 29-minute-long program is a diversity of voices and accents and dialects because we have reporters, as you've seen in the video, who are natives to the West Bank and to the Philippines and Nigeria, Argentina, Mexico, Russia, so many countries. And about eight years ago, when FSRN first started, we actually traveled around the world and we were training citizens and community members and young journalists and giving them the tools in order to be able to report for us. Due to budget setbacks, we've had to stop that for now, but it's something that we'd love to initiate again because there's so many parts of the world that you don't really hear from on a regular basis, BBC and NPR in the hotspots. They're in Cairo, they're in London, maybe they were in Venezuela during the elections, but are they there now? No. And because our reporters live in the communities that they cover, they are constantly talking to local sources, they have their ear to the ground is what we'd like to say. And so what happens is news trickles up, so rather than having a regional bureau chief who may be reading the wires and seeing what some of the mainstream or state-run media is reporting on, we have all of our local reporters listening to their communities, their neighbors, and then telling us what's going on on the ground level. This story is important. You should be covering it, U.S. listeners need to hear about this. So Askew, I am assuming that airtime is tight on WPFW, that there are folks who want to get on the air, who aren't on the air. Why do you put free speech radio network on the air? Well, the content that we get from free speech news is well produced. Audio quality rivals anything that you'd hear anywhere else. And I had not really considered it until Catherine just said it. You have original voices, you have voices of Indigenous grassroots voices. And I had not thought about that. I mean, you watch BBC, most of the voices are British. You watch Al Jazeera, most of the voices have British accents. But if you listen to FSRN, it is amazing that you have these voices. And so then you also have the stories that are unique and original of the Palestinian hunger strikers. I mean, the stories are just original. I'm constantly amazed, even at Alice, that she covers the Capitol Hill stories frequently, as well as other stories in Washington, that it's like, how do you know, how does she know in time to be there and cover it something so that by noon or one o'clock in the afternoon, she's done a story on something that most people don't know even happened. And it's the same everywhere. I mean, you back up all the way around the world. And there is a collaborative process that's an editing process. I mean, in some networks, probably you have as many editors, producers, as you have reporters, actually. And so I'm amazed at what this collaborative process is that by, let's say, 10 a.m. Eastern time, a decision has been made as to what stories we're going to have. Now, granted, it's four hours earlier in London. And it's six hours earlier. So the day is almost complete in Palestine. Or in Philippines, the day is already over. But still, it's a daily process. Every day, this collaboration takes place. And a decision is made, which is why me as a news consumer, I like the daily newspaper. I like the daily news network shows. I don't watch, I mean, I don't want to have cable anyway. But I wouldn't watch these 24-7 news cycle programs because the story never ends. And so there is no, as it is with the case of a newspaper, as it is in the case of the network shows. This is our decision for today, June 11, 2013. This is our best judgment as to what is the news today in 29 minutes. It's finito. It's not on and on. Oh, we forgot. We got somebody in. This is it. It is a deliberative process that produces a finite product. And as a body of work, it has that value. And so as you're looking at it as a body of work, I mean, at WPFW, we carry the content. We don't carry the show as a discrete program, but we carry the program in segments. We carry portions of the various reports on our morning news show, which is a two-hour news show. We carry practically all of the pieces in various places so that they sort of fit in with one another and with what we also have otherwise. And other programs carry us reports from FSRN as well. And so you have this, in that sense, it works well for us as a, so our news show then sounds like a real news show because we have these reports from all around the world rotating. And I think it makes us better. And I think the shortcoming is that you don't have two hours of free speech news every day, an hour in the morning, an hour in the evening, and that you don't have more correspondence and more people doing more of it rather than comparing it necessarily to NPR. I think you need more of the FSRN model. NPRs, they do a great job. I mean, I was a commentator at All Things Considered for 15, 20 years. They have outstanding broadcasters. Morning News, Morning Edition, All Things Considered. They do a great job, but there's nothing like free speech news. And we need more free speech news rather than more of the model that we get from the corporate media. So for Katherine and Alice, can you think of a story or maybe a series that you've done that would, for the uninitiated, for, say, someone is watching this who has lots of money, have you broken something that really suggests why free speech radio news is different? I think we're ahead of the curve a lot of the time. We'll be covering an issue, and you'll see it sometimes week, sometimes month, sometimes years later on NPR and some of the other mainstream media. We've been doing a really excellent job with coverage from the tribal areas of Pakistan. Western journalists can't really go there. There's only a few who've gotten in. We have somebody who's local from there. So we've been covering the US drone war and the impact on civilians since 2008, as well as many of the other issues that go on there, women's rights, education. We were the first to interview Malala Yousafzai. She was the teen that was shot by Taliban militants last year, almost assassinated. She survived. And in 2009, we interviewed her when our reporter was touring the Swat Valley, our local reporter. So we were ahead of the game. She was nominated as one of Time's Most 100 Influential People this year, and she was on Free Speech Radio News four years ago. So people could have heard from her then. And even with the recent protests in Turkey, we first covered that on May 30, and the rest of the media caught up about two to three days later. And that's because we had a reporter on the ground who knew that this peaceful protest was going on in Gezi Park to try to save these historic trees. And we had coverage the very next day when his sources told him there was a raid. And then it hit the AP and PR about two or three days later. But we had even given our listeners more context about a month earlier because we had a story from Istanbul for May Day. The authorities there had put restrictions on protesting in that same park. And we did a story on that. And the restrictions were because of this development that they're putting in there that was what led to construction companies knocking down the trees and the protests you've been hearing about for the last three weeks. So while we don't necessarily break corruption scandals and we don't have the resources to do investigative reporting that's carried out over weeks and months and years, we do regularly cover issues that eventually trickle up to the mainstream media. And I think it's a way to be informed before the rest of the world is about many issues that are important to people. That's great. That's great. Is there anything else? Yeah, I have two examples. I have an example where the mainstream media caught up months later. And I have an example where they never caught up. And something we covered never really made it to the mainstream media. I can talk about that one first. Last year, the Obama administration proposed regulations for child farm workers in the US and then under pressure from big agribusiness and ag states, they rescinded those and said they were not going to pursue that anymore. And the day that broke, I saw that there was a group of child farm workers and former child farm workers in DC and they were meeting just a few blocks from the Capitol and having an event. And I ran over there and there were no reporters there, no reporters at all. And I got to sit down with former child farm workers and current child farm workers and hear about the horrible conditions that they work under and how these rules would have made a big difference in their lives. And we ran that story and we looked and basically only sort of trade publications reported on it at all. And even then, they only quoted Labor Department officials and agribusiness officials. So that's an example where the mainstream media never picked up on this story. But also, I mean, we've been hearing so much in the media this week about the NSA and spying. It's on the front page of every paper. It's leading every newscast. But when I went to the Supreme Court to hear about the constitutionality of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act amendments, almost no reporters were there, just a handful. So now everyone's covering it, but we were actually in the room hearing those legal arguments at the time and reporting on it. That's great. And what is your annual budget? You mentioned a $36,000 a month. But so do I simply add that up to 12 or multiply that by 12? Is that your annual budget? We were at a peak of about $600,000 around 2007. And we've had to cut back significantly since then. Our budget now is about $460,000 for a year. That's less than a MacArthur Genius grant. That's less than one MacArthur Genius grant. God bless them. The people who receive those grants certainly deserve them, but I'm just saying. That's for one person. To do whatever you want for a year, you get a half million dollars from the generous benefactors of this grant, whereas all this great work is done by Free Speech Radio News on less money than that one person receives. And it really is something. I mean, you look at the Keystone Pipeline kind of reporting that has been done. One thing that happens. And as a reporter, I had a White House press potential. I worked for a small African-American newspaper out of Chicago. And so it's like I'm not in the coterie at the White House. I suppose I could. That's probably as much to do with my own poor social skills as it is with the fact that no one cares of what I think or say. But then on another level, you're talking about, like I said, the coterie that people talk to one another. And the NPR was not in that swim, but then Susan Samberg and the Troika kind of elevated NPR to so that it's now their correspondence are on Sunday talk shows and what have you. And deservedly, I mean, I'm not taking anything away from them. But I'm just saying that everyone doesn't want to have these stories repeated. I had made the lead and your setup piece talking about the competition for best ideas. Well, there are some people who want the best ideas stamped out. The American Legislative Executive Exchange Council, Alec, I mean, they don't want the best ideas coming forward. They want their ideas coming forward. And so not everyone, even in the Washington media wants all of the stories told. And so it's possible even to be at, for example, a White House press briefing and ask a profound question. And no one else picks it up because it's like, oh, I don't want to go there. I don't want to deal with that. And so it sort of dies on the vine because it is taking the conversation somewhere that everyone's not comfortable with. And so there is this element that is valuable in what so no one ever reports these stories again in that sense listeners don't really realize and appreciate how unique and valuable the voices that they hear are and the stories that they're being told are. But at some point, truth crust to earth will rise again. And this is what happens. Let me play devil advocate here a little bit. And I have no doubt that there may be someone watching this who will say, well, if this is such a great service, why can't you guys just make it in the market? Why can't you just sell ads and just make money and compete the way other news operations compete? So what's the challenge? What's the answer to that? Well, it would become commercial then and right now we are non-profit and non-commercial. We have been discussing alternative revenue streams. Would we be able to have more sustainability if we took underwriting, for example? But these are difficult conversations to have since for 13 years. We have been non-commercial. We have been completely independent. And our listeners have come to expect that there's not a lot of distractions with underwriting or advertisements. But if we don't do that, then listeners do need to step up and support us as members and with donations and getting the word out. News has always been supported pretty much by advertising. Newspapers were very inexpensive because there were expensive cars and jewelry and furs on the second page. News does not make money. Selling products does. So we could move to that model, but we are looking for more publicly funded solutions so that we can stay non-commercial and we don't have to expose our audience to something like ads. To Catherine's point, everything that you see on most television stations, commercial television, and everything that you hear on commercial radio is, to coin the phrase from Everett Coop, the Surgeon General, is an advertising delivery system. It's an advert delivery system. The programming is an advertising delivery system. That's the point. It's just window dressing for the advertising that is what's fueling and paying for the content. And so, in that sense, it is a challenge. What, free speech news is on 85 stations, probably some of the larger stations, other Pacifica stations, which have their own financial challenges in the larger markets, New York, Washington, Houston, Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay Area. I mean, those five cities are among certainly the top 15. So, the other stations that FSRN is on might be in tiny markets, community radio stations, which are practically all volunteer operated, which have very little resource. And so, the advertisers or the, it's almost a self-defeating prophecy that you have this really special content and it's on these small stations. And it's, no one hears it. Not enough people, I should say here. Now, can I get FSRN on the web? Can I get it on the net? Our website is FSRN.org. We have a daily podcast that you can get through iTunes, download it to your phone, listen while you're commuting or at the gym, and everything is posted on our website. In addition to our daily show, we also commission and broadcast about four to eight long format documentaries every year. And I think that's a really unique aspect of FSRN because where else do you hear a 29 minute long audio documentary about news, an important issue? We've covered collectives in Argentina, the drug war in Guatemala, the drug war in Mexico. This is a very, very important point. So while Pacifica and other stations do a very good job of sort of carrying you, you can be reached by other means. You actually are also on other platforms. Yeah, now that's very important. One last question. If you had a major funder in front of you right now, willing to say, listen, I will fund you if you can come up with a good business plan to operate. What would you tell that person? What's the pitch? I think it's a question that many nonprofit news organizations are asking. The Pew Center released a report just yesterday about nonprofit news and it looked at almost 200 nonprofit news organizations across the United States and 54% of them said that they need staff to take care of a business plan, marketing, promotions, advertising. So it was a little bit comforting to know that FSRN is not alone, but it also, to me, exhibited this larger problem where news is time consuming. It takes staff, it takes money, it takes a lot of resources and at the end of the day, there's not a lot of time left to do the important work that we need to do to get out the word about FSRN and convince people it's something they need to support. So I think across this industry of nonprofit news, we need to come up with a sustainable business model. My pitch to that funder would be that we would keep reporting and doing the great coverage that we're doing, but we would also be smart about the changing technologies and consumer trends and meeting people where they are and also putting effort into the marketing and outreach and radio is great because it's an intimate medium and it can be really inspiring, but it's also invisible. So I think if we're able to get out in the public a little bit more, like events like this, which is wonderful, then we'll be reaching people in a new way and sharing and educating them about free speech radio news and why it's important to support it. So let's see, do we have any questions from our, we have a few, so. Without losing their soul. Please. Without losing their soul, without compromising and being co-opted because the money people say, hey, why did you cover that? We thought you were working with us and you, oh. Hi, my name is Patricia Moore. I'm starting a company, it's related to media and I'm interested in knowing, do you think there's room for a business model that would encourage more collaboration along the lines of something like how Creative Commons encourages people to use others' material, but giving credit back and giving payment back to the originators do you think there's room for more collaboration among journalists in a business model sense? And for instance, using what if someone were to come along and say, this is great material, I wish I had done it, I didn't do it. So let me check with them and see if we can use this for some kind of education related material and then sell it. I think that does have a lot of potential. I think collaborations are wonderful because there are people in different geographic areas, people with different expertise in various areas and sharing all of that can really help take your organization further. I think one of the challenges to that is something that people in many industries are facing is when it's on the internet, people expect it to be free. So how do you both get out the information and let people know that it's there and then also have a firewall or a paywall of some sort that keeps them out? So I think if somebody comes up with a solution to that and also figures out, I guess, should news cost something or should it be accessible and free and then what is created in the packaging of that news that could then be resold to other institutions or organizations? But I do see potential there. ABC News has a good morning America for an hour and a half in the morning or two hours each morning, the nightly news in the evening and whatever the night, if they have a night news show. But I mean, that's hours and hours of programming. FSRN has 30 minutes. So at best, at least it needs another 30 minutes, perhaps for a morning show, for example, in order to embrace more content for more people. But I also have to say at the end of the day as a broadcaster, as a journalist, it's like, okay, I do a job, at the end of the day, I'm not ready to start talking with somebody else to say, hey, did you hear my story? Now get into a conference call with 25 other people and pitch my idea and hope to sell it on a daily basis. It's like, you know, I've done all I can to just get this done and get it on the air. I'm not gonna print up hand bills and go out in the street and pass out people and say, tune in, it's such a daunting challenge for the individuals, but it's something that is needed not just for FSRN, but there ought to be a, you know, how do we make a new sustainable model for nonprofit news? And we do collaborate with other journalism outlets. It could definitely be more, it should be more, but for instance, we're a member of the media consortium which has a lot of really well-known members like Mother Jones and Color Lines. And I participated in a project they did where we received joint trainings and workshops on issues of media policy, things like surveillance, broadband access in poor communities of color, lots of different great issues. Then we were able to cover those issues in a way we wouldn't have otherwise. So we had those shared resources and sometimes I've appeared as a guest on some Pacifica programs as well so that promotes us and helps them because the Pacifica stations don't have their own DC correspondence. So. Let's not forget one other thing also. Local Channel 9, Gannett owned, CBS affiliated WUSATV Channel 9, sent a correspondent, meaning not just a correspondent, Bruce Johnson, but a camera operator, a sound operator and a producer to the installation of the Pope. Why did they do that? Because they were gonna add something to the story? No, because they have so much money that they can just write a check and it's for business expenses and it makes the reporters say, wow, I got to go to Italy and spend the week in Rome and it was a great thing and makes everybody else jealous and I wish I worked for that station because I might get a chance to go to Rome to cover the Pope. And, but they have so much money that it's just, this is what we do. This is our business expenses, but what do they add to the story? Nothing. This is the environment and it's really very frustrating to be on this end of it and not on the boy, I just got a free trip. So I wanna ask two questions really. The first is, are liberal people broke? Are we poor? Because I think this is tendency to believe that there are no large individual donors amongst people who are liberal minded and I think that's a fallacy, number one. Number two, can you tell us about your development team? Who does the fundraising for you? Is it a substantial number of people? Is it the type of girth that you need to benefit from individual donor support? And how sophisticated have your approaches been thus far? Again, there are celebrities who are very passionate about some of the things that you do. If you have certain, and this is popular at NPR and other places where you have sort of areas that you cover and you can get funders to support areas, individuals even. Are those the things that are being done you're just not getting traction or is that not even on the table? Yeah, we have never really had the staff to devote to fundraising so it's editorial staff that try to find 20 minutes here an hour there. We hired our former board treasurer as an emergency fundraising coordinator but we're looking right now for a professional fundraiser who can really come in and help show us what we need to be doing. I suggest that when that funder with the deep pockets asks you what's your business model, start with that first. Say the first thing we're gonna do is hire professional experienced team of development professionals to champion our cause. I think if you do that, you'll get the money. I think people would recognize that that's sustainable. And that's why I don't really have pity for the we're in the struggle and that's why we're broke thing. I don't buy that. I think we just aren't thinking resourcefully about what are the best practices proven ways to do this that other people are doing that we're just not doing. One challenge for us as a radio program is we can't say within our program we're in a funding crisis, please donate to us right now under FCC policy. That's a call to action. So we have to be very careful about the language that we use. Additionally, a station like WPFW can't go on the air and say FSRN is in crisis, please donate to them. But what they can do is go on the air and say we're doing the WPFW fundraiser, call this number now and give us money so you can continue to listen to great programming like free speech radio news. So that puts us in a bind because the radio audience is our biggest audience and the way we reach people through our direct fundraising messages is through our very small web audience, our email list and then social media. So that has been a challenge and if the FCC could change that policy we'd be able to speak to people much more directly but we don't, we do lack the capacity of qualified fundraising outreach staff members and if we had that, I think we could see a lot more growth. There's a danger and I guess I have to put a race card here. I had a mentor in Chicago who said something that painfully true and I can only express it by the race card. He was a janitor and he worked as we have to a PR person in a major corporation and I thought he was one of the wisest people I ever met in Chicago but he said all the successful Negroes have been bought, all the rest are still for sale and he don't say damn, you think about it and it's like well, so how can you get bought without being for sale, without selling yourself? How can you get bought without selling yourself? How can you get underwritten without selling yourself? Congress people, all they do is ask people for money. I mean, once you're elected to Congress, that's what you, you get here, you think you're gonna make a change, you're gonna be doing all this political stuff and someone on your staff tells you, you gotta call these funders and that's how you spend 20% of your time every day is making phone calls to potential donors. So who's gonna do that for somebody who's really talking grassroots truth? And at the end of the day it's like wow, you know, I just, you know, I did all of this, I got this great story and now I gotta call up people and ask for money, but those seasoned developers like to say, well, you know, Gaffer and, they're all so expensive. Work with us on this, work with us, work with us on this. That's a breezy story you're doing best. So, do we have more questions? There we go, let's get some more, yeah. I'd like to know in the United States where you get your story leads from. Do you receive a lot of news releases or how do you receive pitches for stories? Do you just keep your head to the ground as good grassroots media people? Well, we have reporters all over the U.S. in most major cities and all over the U.S. and Canada, so I can only talk about my experience here in D.C. I do get news releases and everything and I check on every event that's going around town, but I think being a member of the community and not just thinking that oh, I'm a reporter who's stationed here is really important. I hear about events through friends and friends of friends that aren't, they don't have it together to send a press release or anything about that. And so on our morning editorial calls every morning we think the top story of the day is clearly X. Do we need to cover X or is there something that really deserves coverage that's not getting coverage elsewhere? And if we do have to cover X, how can we cover it in a way that no one else is covering? Seek out a different angle, seek out a different source. So I'll often find myself going after what all the other reporters on Capitol Hill are also going after but asking different questions or sometimes everybody will be in the Capitol trying to interview one specific senator and I'll be at a foreclosure defense action that Occupy is doing, trying to keep someone in their home. It just depends on the day and that's sort of the beauty of our collective decision making is that we hash these issues out together and everybody's opinion counts and sometimes I'll feel really strongly that something is the story and I'll be convinced or sometimes it's the opposite way that I'll be doing the convincing and I think that's really valuable. Let's see if we can get some more in. That's great. I'm still trying to get a handle on this concept that any advertising no matter who it's from will somehow corrupt the integrity of the enterprise. There are some deeply socially conscious national brands, Whole Foods, Ben and Jerry's, Kimpton Hotels and there are others that spend millions on social causes across the board. I fail to see how the editorial integrity of either WPFW or Free Speech Radio News would be compromised by airing a commercial for them. I mean, the commercials could even be focused on environmentally benign products or whatever. I mean, you could put editorial guidelines on the commercials. I spent a year as Director of Public Affairs for a public radio station and I've gone through all the fundraising challenges and the biggest problem were the restrictions on what we could do in terms of sponsor recognition. Because no matter what kind of programming we wanted to air we could find somebody that would want to sponsor it but we couldn't do much. Now the rules have relaxed a little bit since back then but I'd really like to get a better feel for that issue. Yeah, I mentioned earlier we have been discussing the possibility of bringing underwriting into the program that would be a big change. If we built a strong enough firewall it might not affect this current editorial staff that we have. I can't speak about future staff that might hear underwriting about a company that maybe doesn't treat its workers very well and then not doing a story on that company later on down the road. And I think even if you build a strong enough firewall between editorial and the advertising or underwriting there's still the perception from your audience that underwriting is affecting what you cover and that could have an effect when it comes time to ask people for money and step up their financial support. And some stations have even said they will not carry us if we have underwriting and advertising. So it's just still being considered. When one local post is nonprofit that's doing something similar to what you're doing with local journalists around the world with print journalists and they produce excellent coverage I would think that you would have an opportunity for them to collaborate with them specifically in terms of marketing and distribution and content sharing and what not. One other thing that they're beginning to do is give cameras to their print reporters who are now generating video which is expanding their content service but they got most of their income from syndication and which I think could work pretty well. I like that idea. So please. I was wondering about your training. I do media training here in D.C. and I know you have a lot of resources online. Do you do anything beyond that to make sure that your reports are up to snuff? And I was also actually curious about a skier you had said that their reports were on nine and I was just curious about what would take it up to a 10. So let's do the first one first and then we'll get a ski is what do you need to do to get to a 10? Well I've trained several interns in person here in the D.C. office because we're a decentralized editorial team and a lot of our staff works from home it makes the most sense for me having the little office here to be the one to bring people in and it's been students and it's yeah it's been really great and we have a mission of taking people of all skill levels and so I've taken people that have lots of print news experience but no radio experience or radio experience but it's not news it's music and commentary based or none of the above and really training them in not just the technical skills but all kinds of ethical issues and also being in D.C. how the government works or doesn't work as the case is often and it's been really great seeing people progress and being able to work with them in that way and the hope is that I mean they are students and still figuring out what they want to do but the hope is that they can be freelance contributors to us later they can go anywhere in the world and they're pre-trained and can send in really great stuff for us. Yeah and I'm glad we have the opportunity to talk about this because it's one of my favorite things about free speech radio news we're really inclusive when it comes to working with contributors some of our contributors have been college students, high school students some of them are in their 60s and 70s from what I can gather all different levels of experience and we work with them if it takes a week or several weeks some reporters I've worked with for months on one story because it's really important to us to train the next generation of grassroots community journalists who tell stories not through the eyes of the powerful and the elite but through everyday people your neighbors, the people down the streets and so we're willing to put the time and effort that it takes to work with people who might not have gone to journalism school or sound super polished and once they get on the air they're empowered, they're inspired some of them go on to other news organizations and continue doing the great work that they did when they were with free speech radio news so our door is open contributors only need a little bit of experience and some recording equipment and we'll help them the rest of the way That's great So Skye I'm going to give you the last word and you're going to take us to the 10 how do we get to the 10? He's a significantly larger staff I don't know how the I don't know how the collaborative process I think it's good the editorial process is good but then taking it to its maximum without making it unwieldy with more people and more input some of the stories are kind of redundant some of the stories are predictable it's okay and then there's a race card again kind of a white bread kind of sound to the anchors they all sound kind of this is okay it's really okay they all sound kind of white and NPR-ish kind of but it's okay because on another level it's like those guys are working for us and they're making us sound like you know real professional broadcasters us being the Gassan, Benuras and the other folks who don't who have the heavy brogue you know that and so so if someone sounded kind of like a homeboy would that make me less trustful of them would it sound you know less professional? I don't know I mean I don't know I don't know what the answer to that is to make it to make that part of it sound different you know and there's something that I'm sure it's come across the minds of Catherine and others before how do we get a different sound without you know without having the black people that you have sound like Lester Holt or Brian Gumbel I mean great broadcasters not taking anything away from them someone that you can't distinguish from other people so what is it that would make them sound more make that part of it sound more inclusive that that sounded more but it's but again like I said it's okay you know it's not it's not a it's not a bad thing you know don't change it just to make it sound ethnic only change it because of the meritocracy and because someone came along it's like perfect whether they um you know whether they sound like Dorian or not um just change it because they bring something to the table that is superior and uh and and and it's and it's good so um and then like I said the other thing is just making it larger having uh you know more coverage uh but then you know the problem in a lot of community radio stations is the time is so coveted uh you know making time for another 30 minutes it's like well who's going to give up 30 minutes of their show to put in 30 minutes of something from somebody way over there and in in Richmond, Virginia it's like come on um so so it's it's a um I don't know what would make it more palatable to radio stations to say uh we need more time to listen to say we got to give more money I mean as it is in DC WPFW for example has trained and educated a whole cadre of listeners to give to a radio station when why should I give to the radio station if I'm the 10th caller the radio station will give me a thousand dollars uh why should I give to the radio station um and so you've taught a whole cadre of people um in the hood that this is something worth supporting with a financial contribution so how do you expand that so that more people in general um step up and give the the the kind of support that's needed because um in the end as as as as was said in the setup piece you know who will pay for it when I can get it for free if we if if public broadcasters could put meters on the radio like with cable no problems problems solved um you didn't pay this month return your box or we'll bill you we'll find you immensely and we'll cut off your service so um um it's that you know that we we have we have that in this cycle of chasing our tail around and around and trying to find the perfect solution and I think FSRN does a pretty good job as it is and you know maybe a nine you know maybe 9.5 would be as best we could really expect without having lost our soul Skiyer what what grade would you give a C.B.S. seven five eight nine's not too bad I mean come on give them you know C.B.S. I mean they got the resources they have they have super broadcasters they got plenty of money and you're only giving them a seven point five eight well I mean it's what they do with it I mean I'd give them an eight um maybe I mean come on C.B.S. is to the commercial broadcasting field as NPR is to I mean C.B.S. is like the NPR of of commercial broadcasters NPR is like the it's like the NPR of the rest of the world and FSRN is like the NPR for the grassroots and so I mean you keep you know you keep getting back better more authentic more reliable so you know just what is it I remember seeing this once about I wish the day I could see the day when the Pentagon had to survive on a bake sale and FSRN was fully funded there we can so I'd like to see it I'd see C.C.B.S. having a a pledge drive and see FSRN having all the resources they needed Catherine Alice Esquia thank you very much audience thank you we're off to a good start thanks