 Hello everybody, Fenian's Eye Interviews and today I have here Yaron Brooke. Thank you very much Yaron for coming and I'm just so excited to talk to you I've made a little live stream earlier to talk to people say like you guys know him I have been mentioning him every time I talk to anybody and we end up with morals The big wall of how you get morals if you don't have masters or religious or gods, so Yaron Brooke is a Israeli-American writer interpreter and my question my first question would be an activist is that how Wikipedia Titles you a little in the end Objectivist I'm an objective that wouldn't use low Wikipedia rights about me as the definitive truth about anything So Wikipedia is what other people write. They're not what I write. So yes, I I'm an objectivist Okay, and it's funny because they they they actually titled there as a literary movement and I already Contested that as being a completely wrong title because it's a philosophical so much deeper and explain so much more I think he's trying to undermine it No question. There's no question So a little bit about your books you have the books free market to revolution from 2012 in politics and social science with Don Wattskin And also the equalism fair in 2016 that is America's me get misguided Fight against income inequality. How do you guys write those books together? You guys really see it or is like a letters that you exchange Well when we vote those two books we were working in the same offices So yes, so we worked very closely Out you know coming up with ideas and outlines and editing and Don did almost all the writing and And I did a lot of the editing a lot of the the the ideas in the outline. So yes, it's a lot of back and forth We were in the same office in those years Also, I did the in pursuit of wealth in 2018 and I I would like to ask you a little one Question that I think is the basis of a bit of a left indoctrination on public schools about of social sciences and politics it's Is there a rich class Over everybody oppressing the masses or the majority to to succeed as they try to teach in the schools No, not at all. I mean that is very much a remnant of Marxism which which tries to category people categorize people into classes. There's no such thing as a working class There's no such thing really as a middle class or wealthy class as if everybody's wealthy is the same or everybody's middle class is the same or Everybody's poor is the same Certainly there are people who are rich or bad people are there people who are poor that are bad people But most people who are wealthy Achieve that wealth through hard work and through innovation and through the creation of values and through the production of values and the wealth is just a Some you know an outcome of their successful careers and their successful work and their successful production of values But yes, there are people who inherit their wealth and real lazy They're people who use the government to get their wealth. There are all kinds of wealthy people and that's why There is no real meaning to a class where everybody is the same and again the same thing as poor people There's some people who are poor For no fault of their own because something bad happened to them There's some people who are poor because they deserve to be poor because they they just don't produce so because they're lazy or because they do bad things and so there's it's mixed and you can't judge people and you should never judge an individual by Just independent of all other information by just how much money they have you you've got to know more about them particularly in the world Yeah, definitely and it's funny because in Brazil for example these recent conversations about economics and politics and I just always go back to IRN and I was sharing and watching her this morning a little Summary of all her ideas and how she explained explains We should be secular in the economics to so apart the same way we apart religion from politics We are part economics from politics and it's a difficult idea to Talk about in Brazil when you have so much corporate corporatism and also people Started attacking when they tried to philosophize a little bit more Or don't or don't even try to philosophize but the attack terms as Meritocracy and they think like there's such a thing that is evil Yeah You know the problem is that we live Everywhere and it's not just Brazil we live everywhere in these mixed economies where there's some freedom There's some capitalism and there's a lot of state intervention And then people look at cronyism as if it is a symptom of capitalism But cronyism really is a symptom of the state intervention. The reason there's so much cronyism there's so much involvement of corporations in Brazil It's because government has a lot of power over the corporations in Brazil. So Businesses can get a lot of favors from the government by bribing people by getting involved in elections by Getting involved in politics, but imagine a world and this is the world I'm in talks about Imagine a world that's capitalist and capitalist means that the government is not involved in economics What that means is the government has no favors to give business. It has no goodies It has no special laws special protections to provide business a business You know it gets no benefit from Lobbying or from from trying to bribe politicians because politicians have nothing to give them Because politicians are impotent when it comes to the divorced from economics. They're not related to economics They don't get involved in economics. So as a businessman my only consideration is Production and treating my customers well and treating my employees well so they can produce and make money and make profits from shareholders That's it. You know the government has no role in my life So I don't interfere in what the government in in the government. So cronyism that what you call corporatism all of that is A feature of statism It's a feature of a big government that intervenes in the economy constantly and the more the government intervenes The more business tries to buy favor with the government and what we need is a government that doesn't intervene Definitely one interesting approach of like apparently everybody understand because or even of course more the people that will enter into be small business and feel that That the inequality that the big companies have those benefits from the government is smaller taxes or whatever exemptions or Benefits subsidies and then they feel like oh that is unfair But most of people sometimes in the individual level. They are Voting for the people that promote this type of agenda Mainly because for example in Brazil you have politicians that are the owners of the companies that they were contracting The only way to stop that is to make politicians have no power over business and Of course if you for example if you had no corporate tax Which is the only Which makes complete sense, right? Because corporations don't pay taxes corporations just as people and all the taxes are basically born It turns out by customers and employees So imagine if you had a corporate tax a business tax of zero Then there'd be no exclusions no deductions. No special favors. Nothing them everybody would be saying zero So it's gone. So there's no government involvement So again the more we can get government out of business out of regulating business out of controlling business out of owning business and out of taxing business They'll that morning the less the incentive of business to go and lobby the less the incentive to try to manipulate The less the incentive for businessmen to become politicians right, so the only way to get Business out of government is to get government out of business. That's right. Thank you very much Let me just brush a little bit on the USA politics What are your thoughts about this double-state solution and the if you know Trump's actions on Israel? politics external politics recently in his Monday, so more generally what what exactly do you want me to come? Yeah, yeah, what is your opinion as Israeli-American? Person I mean opinion in general and what? How do you see what he has done so far? I mean, I don't think a two-state solution is a solution in Israel. It the place is too small And in the population is too intermingled in the end Ultimately the solution will be one some kind of one-state solution And and that one-state solution will have to involve the Palestinians accepting the existence of Israel and accepting the fact that they are Many many that they're Jews there that you know They've always wanted to kick out and they wanted to get rid of it requires their acceptance of that in order to have any kind of solution I think overall Trump's policies towards Israel have been positive. It's one area where Trump is as I think done Good things. I don't think it'll be lasting because while he's lost the election now So his administration is out But overall I think his policies have been positive towards Israel moving the embassy to Jerusalem is something they should have done years and years ago telling the Palestinians that You know to stop the violence and that they won't you know, they won't be recognized and they won't be And unless they recognize Israel is a good thing He did offer a peace plan which I thought was not very good It acknowledged the two-state solution which I thought was weak But overall, I think his policies have been with regards to Israel have been favorable to Israel That's right. Yeah, I was more interested to know if you think that is possible And it always depends of course if we have some type of consensual peace and I Agree with you to not deal with the terrorism, but hopefully It could find some type of a government that could fit both sides No, just like Republicans and Democrats that is not supposed to be from one It's not supposed to be the power in one's side hand Well, ideally The Palestinians come around to accepting Israel and adopt what you would consider, you know western ideas And ultimately there would be a One state in it one state in the in that territory and it won't be an Arab party and a Jewish party It'll be parties designated by ideas and You know, there'll be Arabs on the right and Arabs on the left and they'll be Jews on the right Jews on the left and they'll And they'll or whatever the the categories are and they'll fight it out politically Uh, so so yes, that is the idea. But unfortunately, I don't think the Palestinians are ready for that And I'm and I'm not sure some of the Israelis are ready for that, but it's overall I think we're far away From having a final peaceful solution to what is going on in Israel Sadly, yeah, that's that the hopefully Yeah, if you can if you can't they can change the battle to the political political maybe parliament It should be in parliament They should have political parties should run But the problem is that in the world in which we live where people are very are becoming more and more tribal The fear is that that the Arabs will only vote for Arab candidates and the Jews will only vote for Jewish candidates And that is You know, we need to resurrect. We need to bring about Real individualism where people don't feel like they're just members of a tribe But they have autonomy and they have confidence in themselves as individual Individuals and and where the government sees individuals as ending themselves And unfortunately the Palestinians certainly don't have that but even the Israelis Don't have that mentality. There's way too much collectivism and there's way too much tribalism In israel and in the bottom at least Yeah, in the end always end up with objective Objectivism and individualism is the best answer for everything. So could you give a A type of an objective analysis of what you think it the usa elections now and it's integrity Let's Well, I don't think there was any problem with the u.s. Election I think the problem is with trump not willing to accept the fact that he lost And trump voters not willing to accept and basically trump voters Doing whatever trump tells them to do that is this again This is the tribalism and this is the collectivism involved. It's it's It's my tribe versus your tribe and I you know, my tribe couldn't have lost and if it lost It was cheating involved. That's that's kind of the the logic so I think trump lost. I think in a sense It's good that he lost. I think it's a it was a repugiation of his style of Governance and the content of his governance Republicans did well In the rest of the races. So they did well in the house. They did relatively well in the senate And even in ballot initiatives in places like california The better ideas did well. It's just that trump didn't do well But trump can't Psychologically can't admit that he has lost. He got it. What about the evidence of frauds like he did extra No, they were like 800,000 extra ballots counted like it from registration to None of that all the the other states that are Uh, you know Swing them now. Yeah, they're suing at the supreme court and my I I would bet anything that the supreme court the video evidence Of people pulling ballots under the tables and stuff like that You think that is like a puncture like if there was such a net because there are those those evidence those those evidence Not important video evidence But the video evidence is all being debunked. It's all being debunked It's all nonsense and every time it goes in front of a judge the judge throws it out because it's nonsense So there's no objective evidence I'm just a little skeptical because i'm not left or right, but i'm more Sentenced that to watch like I understand that This judge throwing away could be biased Uh, uh, some of the judges were pointed by trump Um, there's no evidence zero evidence of bias by these judges I haven't seen a single article that is that is convincingly Made the case that the judges are biased and you will see I this is my you will you'll be able to judge this This is my prediction the supreme court will Will rule against these states and they'll probably do it unanimously or seven to you know Eight to one or seven or two. It will be an overwhelming defeat against trump. There is no credible evidence That there was systematic fraud in this election now was there fraud here fraud there sure every election There are specific cases of fraud. Is there systemic fraud that would overturn this election? Zero none and the supreme court will rule that way and they'll rule that way fairly quickly I think by the weekend we will know and they will basically take the tell these states to stop it and and to get their act together and uh, that they that there's no basis for any of this and uh on december 20th, I think it is or whenever it is the uh, the Electoral college will vote joe biden in as presidents. Uh, and that'll be the end of it Yeah, I think it's what everybody wants to see is the ante and the at least It's the right outcome because that's what's happened again There's no evidence of systemic fraud all this all these videos have been debunked all these ideas that there are I just saw like people because I like to pick on both sides. I watch like from ben Shapiro to Crowder I get it going through a lot and uh, for example, like for example, crowder is uh, uh, He's of course job supporter Uh, and I don't even follow in recently anymore But I received the video that he actually made Showing that he voted He voted into states because you can yourself check your vote and a lot of people have been checking for example fracas or Or or even crowder and other people checking as like They have been registered voting in two places when they did not hide or so There is like personal not just personal experience, but uh, they were uh The number of the ballots that were required before election and the number of ballots that were counted in the end of the election There is a difference of seven to eight hundred thousand I don't believe them and I don't believe crowder and I don't believe his video And he he is out to get views and he's out to get people to watch him and he's out to create They're making stuff like that is easy to do and I don't trust them. I don't believe them and uh And yeah, so so no, I I I see I've seen nothing credible To suggest that there was systemic fraud in this election or that the election should be or will be overturned And again, every single judge it's looked at Is thrown it out every single judge we're talking about You know a lot of judges And not a single one of them even brought it to trial because they thought it was so flimsy And so ridiculous in terms of the evidence And our judicial system is not that corrupt so that you know, all of them are participating in some conspiracy to No, I understand that I've heard other arguments on that sense, but definitely it's like not going full on defending it I'm just like very curious that there is so much Uh, because I heard like a first argument was like, oh, there he is, uh, let's say When we can't we recount the votes we have sometimes a difference, but that doesn't exceed 128 apparently was a number like that 228 But now they had states that they had thousands like thousands of Difference and and I was like, wow that is it's pretty big. It goes over the line that they say it's Acceptable and that is not why widespread None of that is true. That's all like a myth. I gave planted evidence recounted in wisconsin They recounted in in georgia twice. They did a recount twice in georgia and it was very little difference So no, I mean, I I don't know where any of this is going the glitch on the system. None of this. This is all, uh, conspiracy theory It's all made up. It's not even a conspiracy It's somebody sat in the room and said i'm gonna make something up and they make it up There were stories about a computer super computer in germany This story is about venezuela This story is uh, you know with dominion. All of this is yeah, no, I heard the venezuela nonsense It's all just made up Okay, so let's talk now. We still have 20 minutes. I'm just checking on your luck Uh to talk I would love to talk a little bit and explain a bit of Objectivism and maybe talk a little bit against these strong men's and myths that people construct over Objectivism. I love the video that you the bank the The terrible the bank the the the terrible video of a ben Shapiro talking I think it was with david rubin and that he actually I almost felt personally offended With him saying that ions man philosophies garbage. I would like no he should retreat that And uh and explain to many people that how selfishness is the best way and principle that we honestly live our our lives and Because a lot of people have seen trying to understand objectiveism and rejecting when they face that it's like oh, of course not being Selfish will be the best way And I have a brush that or talked about that quite a while. I would like to see you presenting that to people, please Yes, I mean first of all you have to understand what selfishness means I mean to iron man in iron man's philosophy selfishness doesn't mean The lying cheating stealing being being bad, you know, uh, horrible to other people Are being a nasty human being selfishness means That your top priority in life is your own happiness. It's your own success as a human being It's living to the best of your ability and making the most of your life And other people are obviously a part of being successful in life. We trade We have relationships. We have friends. We have lovers. We we have We have a lot of interaction with other people and In order to benefit from those interactions with other people you want to make those interactions Beneficial to you and beneficial to them So, uh, the way in which to view the relationship between you and other people is through the the the Frame of as a trader somebody who trades value for value Win win. So, you know, the way a selfish person interacts with other people is to create win win relationships with them And a good life is one one of the aspects of a good life is one in which you maximize the win win relationships That you have in life So to be self-interested to be selfish is to take your life seriously to make the most of it and what is required To make the most of your own life. Well, the primary thing that's required is for you to use your mind It's the thing it's to figure out. How should I live life? so as to Achieve my values and so as to uh to ultimately be happy and what values should I choose In order to make my life successful In order for me to both enjoy my life to have it fulfilled to flourish as a human being I need to choose the right values And I need to make sure those values all consistent in leading me towards happiness leading me towards success So the primary thing that objectivism asks people In the context of being selfish is to think to think about how what your values should be How you want to live your life and how to maximize Your one life on this earth or one shot that you have it's living your life and achieving happiness and pursuing The values that rationally are going to lead to that happiness. So Again, it's it's too many myths about what selfishness is. There's too much You know this perception that you either live for other people Or you're a lying cheating crook And the truth is that there's a third alternative and that is to live for yourself rationally With long-term consideration to what will lead to your happiness your success your flourishing as a human being Yeah, and I I love to always talk to people to say like it It's just natural that because a lot of people want to attack this There is no such of objective morality as there is no such a thing as we all come born with such a A pattern to behave and I say no because this is learned by experience by living and it's pretty early when you learn that Love is not unconditional. You have to be good to people For them to be good back to you and you can choose to cheat or steal But you're going to be clandestine. You're going to have to live in the periphery of the society and That is definitely objectively not a best way to live So yeah, be good and people will be good to you. So I think it's uh In some way it is intuitive But requires a lot of reason To understand that you don't need much more than that to just be good and not do to other people What you would not like them to do to you. I think that's right, but to be selfish requires a lot more than that Because yes, so I I think there's there's a certain basic understanding that most people have That lying stealing and cheating are bad But morality is not about what you shouldn't do morality is about what you should do And what you should do and how you should live your life is not intuitive It is something that you have to figure out and it's just something you have to really think about And this is the value of philosophy philosophy is something that can teach you It's a it's a it's a subject matter that should teach you How to live your life well Philosophers look at the world They study human nature. They study history. They study human action and what they can induce is What are the values that are necessary for human success? What are the values that are universal to all human beings? That are common to all human beings that if all human beings pursue these things They will be successful. They will achieve happiness. They will be They will achieve, you know flourishing and and success of life That's what philosophers do. That's what I enranded and ran presents us with a with an ethical theory Based on observation of reality based on understanding of of human nature Based on understanding of human reason and its world that it plays in human life and it's a philosophy that if you Practice it guides you towards success as a human being and that should be the purpose of every morality A moral coach should be a system of values that tells you what's good And what's bad and to avoid the bad and to pursue the good and but good for whom and for what? Good for you and for a good for a life for a life well lived for happiness so You know, and that's why Morality is objective because morality is derived from reality. It's derived from human nature derived from the nature of reality derived from understanding of human activity and and what leads to success and what leads to failure for human beings, so it's not subjective and it It's it's not, you know, uh, uh, mystical because there is no nothing mystical. So Uh, all there is is reality and and the only place on which we can derive a proper morality Is from reality and from our understanding of of again human nature and the nature of reality Yeah, that is definitely a good topic I would like to just bring that back to say to try to explain that What you said is like there is no such a supernatural and The only problem is like a lot of people don't understand how to explain the feelings That you have when you do good things You know this I I have used recently the term social endorphin because again, why would I do charity? It's like, why do we do we do it? We should not be forced to do and that goes a little back on the economics and politics But uh, it's showing how philosophically you you should To love or to give away and the value is Created by the individual so it requires the struggle of each one of us But I would even say that we get too much endorphins from charity and we get those endorphins because We've been taught a bad philosophy We've been taught that the most virtuous thing you can do in life is to help other people But that's not true. That's not the most useful thing the best thing you can do in life But if you taught it and you turn it make it a part of you Then that'll shape your emotions and you'll get positive emotions from bad things And so people self-sacrifice And they feel good about it, but that's not good to self-sacrifice it as bad Even if it's voluntary You won't know If you get good feelings from charity Until you adopt the right values until you adopt the right philosophy the right set of ideas I get some positive endorphins from some charity a lot of it. I don't a lot of it's just a nuisance Because I know how wasteful charity is I know how useless charity is I know how distorted charity is and I know that charity is not that important That what's important is my work. What's important is my relationships with other people What's important is my own integrity and honesty and my own rationality Those are the things that really give me the importance and charity is like, you know, yes I don't have any objection to charity charity is nice to do Uh, if you have the time and if you have the money to do it, but it's not a priority It's altruism. It's the philosophy that teaches you that your life doesn't matter The only purpose of your life is to serve others Then when I give to other people I go, oh, wow, I'm such a good person now But with my philosophy Charity doesn't make me a good person. It doesn't make me a good person What makes me a good person is how I live on a day-to-day basis So our emotions follow our ideas Our conclusions our values If we have the wrong values, we will have positive emotions over bad things The idea is first to focus on your ideas Focus on your philosophy focus on your values And then your emotions will adapt will adjust and you'll start feeling Good consistent with your values if you do the kind of psychological introspective work that is necessary Yeah, no, I understand that but I I also think there is it could be It could be also like there is more than just the social inner thing that doing that that is like more and a Volutive interaction and that's what's built us as society. So it's like it's not just based on the altruism That's it. Oh, you have to do charity use your time Well, you know, like I saw just a post about how you have to take care of your physical and your mental And it's like exercise and then read and then there is a third one that would be spiritual And in this pre ritual they put Pray meditation and then after they put Then they put the real things they put crafting music arts And then charity and I was like, I always talked against the church in general as institutions because I always thought people in brazil spend way too much time praying When they could get together and do charity, it would be much better Or maybe instead of praying instead of praying they could actually think They could use they could actually focus on values instead of praying for something go work for it That I think would be would be would be a big improvement But but let's be clear again charity is not that important for your spiritual health You know arts and music very important. Those are real values charity is You know And also because I think like we are we are naturally in that sense of doing Giving charity and I don't think the charity should be like a charity from Poor people trying to give to church for example when they make so little and they still take like that 10 percent Give to church like they do in brazil. I don't agree with that I think like I said charity should be something that I have so much in evidence of time and money I'm gonna give away because I understand there are people that are in need and and I understand also like it because Everybody had I believe some if you give for charity You have that experience that someone in across the line you like that person definitely doesn't deserve anymore He's taking charity for like 10 years Let's say and this happens all the time in brazil There are people that start when this the government start giving the money to people to see today Receiving because they did not want to even make more money to not lose those Those charities. So I understand how charity is evil. Uh, it is bad in the ultimate sense Your video is also, uh, and there are so many other good videos talking about this But I think that is natural that we would end up giving and also Generating some type of feedback to yeah, we don't want to give to people that they just want to collect In a good society in a free society people would need very much. They wouldn't be a need for much charity And people would feel ashamed about collecting Because they would be they would be proud of the ability to work for themselves and and uh, and that's how it needs to be in america We need to just inject more individualism and people to be proud of their own work and their creator their own value I'm not going to hold you much more. So I'm going to finish here. You guys go check out yaron's books and iron rand institute irons books and Leonard pickoff that I love his books as well explained so well iron rand and I hope to have you at some point sometime again So happy to and don't forget to send people to uh, to subscribe to my youtube channel. You can watch me on youtube yaron brook show I'll put the link here down below and you guys leave comments and questions can leave questions I'll pass to yaron and maybe we can make another meeting sounds good. Thank you very much. Bye