 Hello everyone, welcome to the last Jenkins online meetup of 2018. I'm William Newman, the host. We have a really exciting presentation day from Box East, and we have several other people on the line who have also worked on Java 11 support, which is now in preview for Jenkins. Let's see, we have Mark Waitz, Oleg Mineshev, and Adrian, I don't know your last name, sorry. I couldn't pronounce that in English right now. Sorry, Ramon, welcome. Alright, at least why don't you tell us about this? Yeah, thank you, William. So I'm going to spend the next hour, we are going to spend the next hour together to discuss and to explain where we are and where we come from about the support for Java 11 running Jenkins on Java 11. And so what we've gone through in the last year, I would say. So let's dig into this right away. So the agenda for today is going to be, we are going to make an overview of the status of the support currently. Then we will explain how to run Jenkins, there are a variety of ways to do that. We'll cover some, we will explain actually how to find and where they are documented. We'll then explain what's missing to go to basically GA, and then we'll explain how to actually contribute because this is the gist for today. We want to explain what's the status and what people can do to report bugs so that we reach the GA state at some point. So how to ask a question during this presentation? So please use the Gitter Chat for the so-called platform SIG, SIG meaning Special Interest Group, which is the overall place, platform where we generally discuss platform things, platform related things in the Jenkins community. This very presentation you're seeing right now is available by the second link. So feel free to open it so that you can actually click the links and everything because I'm going to open some, but I won't be opening every single link we will be seeing. So the presentation is designed for the audience to be able to use it to open and dig into things during or after the presentation. So I was explaining just before what was in the platform SIG. So we welcome basically people, this is an open source sub-project I would say, of the Jenkins project. And anyone interested in those areas is welcome to participate. So what about Jenkins running on Java 11? What's the current status? I'm going to go back a bit to the last year as I was saying roughly. So the first experiment started roughly after Jenkins were 2017 in San Francisco, where we started playing with, we're seeing how Jenkins would behave on Java 9, sorry, back then. And then there were a few other initiatives and the biggest one occurred in June, that was led mainly by Oleg Nenachev, the president here, and who's been doing, no one can deny it, the heavy lifting of all those changes, but many, many people participated and are very, really welcome and we're thanking them for this. So it was again as in June and huge effort was made and progress was made back then to move forward and reach the state we know and we are going to discuss today. In June, so we were able to actually make the pipeline work, there were many improvements and so the week and long hackathon ended up producing a lot of interesting results, which we built on to reach the state of today. So we at some point reached the Java 10 and Java 11 EA preview availability on Jenkins, but the state right now is that, so we are going to discuss that a bit later. We don't see a question if there are, but basically the summary is that we only support Java 11 or Java 8. We don't support any version in between or above that as it is now. So Java 8 or Java 11, we don't support Java 9, Java 10 and Java 12 yet at least. So summarizing, this is what we went through and this is where we are right now. We are so right now announcing basically the fact that we are reaching the preview availability for Jenkins running on Java 11, which is summarized here. And so the goal, the next stage is going to be indeed reaching GA in the next month without for now committing to any precise date. We hope it might be around May or something, but there's no confirmation as of now because it will really depend on how much testing we are able to put in, how many issues we discover along the way, even if we already tested a lot. And we obviously need to test more because there are like, as you know, 1500 plugins in the Jenkins community. So we need to obviously feedback and people willing to contribute to contribute testing in, I would say, less mainstream plugins and many, many other areas. Is there any questions before I move forward? And I might think I'm online, incidentally. I'm still online. Continue. Yeah, thank you. So the chat, so if there are any questions, I'll post them. Yeah, I mean, we shouldn't be shy, I think, about trying to address questions as they come through. Maybe we can delay some if they make sense at the end, but that's really not an issue if we want to progressively address some questions really if you feel the right time to address them. No issue about that. Sorry, what? We're here for you. Okay, great. So pipeline support. This was probably one of the main issues that we had to tackle. And so I wouldn't say it solves definitely right now. It's still being worked on by the pipeline team, but we now have at least a fix that sets kind of a temporary fix for Java 11 specifically. The pipeline team is still working on a long-term fix for allowing pipeline to run on Java 11. It does work right now, but the code base is going to evolve still a bit to support and to be tested a bit more with how it was done until now, basically. A lot of things were worked on around Java 11 supporting Jenkins because, as you might imagine, there's Jenkins per se, but there's a whole lot of tools around Jenkins that we use for testing Jenkins itself. So for instance, Jenkins test harness, what you call ATH, the PCT, those tools have been needed a lot of improvements and fixes to be able to support testing with Java 11, for instance. Now, before we were supporting only Java 8 and ATH, which basically is a Selenium-based framework, I would say, not from framework, but test base for Jenkins, and it was designed because of historical reasons and mainly worked and tested on Java 8 for obvious reasons because we were supporting and only having Java 8 as a target. So we had to evolve a lot of things and discover a lot of issues to be able to just run things with Java 11. So we fixed basically the dev. We spent a lot of time in last weeks mainly, also fixing things in the dev tools mainly. And so we are going to announce the last bullet point on this slide is that since a few weeks now, we are constantly checking that the core of Jenkins keeps working and tests don't fail, also not only Java 8, but also Java 11. Actually, a few months by now. We continuously improve the flow and there are still steps to adopt, for example, a sentence test harness with Java 11, but we are moving forward. And we just, we recently changed ATH to support Java 11, as I was saying. And so we've seen a few issues here and there that we are working on fixing basically. And yeah, absolutely. Thanks Oleg. So how to run Java on Jenkins on Java 11? There are a few ways, the hard ways, I'm not going to describe too much, I'm going to just open different windows basically, but the official way is to use the JDK 11. So warning here, if I didn't say that clearly before, I'm going to say that again. It's a preview, so it's not prediction-ready. It's encouraged to test in your test environments because we really warmly welcome feedback, but it's not prediction-ready. We do know that there are a few incompatibilities, issues here and there. Most of them are probably already known about, but yeah, important warning. Apart from that, the good thing about Docker images is that you don't have to bother with passing the right arguments to be able to run Jenkins on Java 11 because as we probably are going to have a quick look at, it's not simple at all. If you try to run the war, it's not the same story. A quick look at it. If you want to see a demo about that, there is a specific link in the slides that you know you were given the link of in that slide. There's a demo on how it works, but basically you can leverage the project called Evergreen presented also at Jenkins Worlds a few weeks ago and Adrien, presenting the call right now, made a quick demo of how Evergreen has been added a new flavor to actually be able to run Java 11 out of the box for anyone very easily. That's the single command you have to run and then it's Evergreen as usual to be able to run a Java 11-based version of Jenkins. The harder version, I'm going to open the link here because that's a very thorough article that Oleg wrote a few days ago about running the whole story about Java 11. If you want to run the war, you will have to basically download and put those things on the disk, then pass the class pass the right way, then pass the right options, the enable structure Java. That's not that hard, but it's a bit complex compared to running the Docker image where we actually fix that for you. Any question? No, just a strong and compelling vote. Use Docker. Yeah, way easier. Yes, because Docker, I didn't even document that because, well, I did kind of, but that's just the official way of running things. The only thing that's changing here if you're not seeing it, is that we just use that which is a label, but it could be also if we just have a look at this. There is a question from Stephen Clarke if the future general availability of Jenkins is going to support GDKE8 or just UDK11? I am so full. That depends what it is meant, but I'm going to cover, I hope everything in that regard. For now, there are no plans to change the Jenkins core to be able to support building on GDKE11, but we definitely plan to support running on Java 11 VMs because that's the point of what we're talking about right now. In the near future, by near, I mean something like six months or less, but yes, again, I'm not going to commit yet to any kind of precise date for now, but we welcome feedback because the more we get contribution, the more we get feedback, the sooner we will be able to announce a version that is officially supporting Java 11, because then in the core of Jenkins, there are a few switches that we actually need to change and to fix to remove the fact because right now, if you run Jenkins on Java 11, you might have seen that in the article. You have to pass that switch because if you don't, then it will crash or if we stop more, if you don't use Java 8 because it's explicitly hard-coded that we only support Java 8 because we know there are a few issues with other versions. And in the past, people would update without us actually supporting some even version. So now it's enforced and when we support something, we explicitly add the support and then you can use it. So if in the future we want Java 11 to not be blocked by that switch, that's the point. And we do plan to support Java 11 for runtime in the future if that was the answer, the question. It was also noted that there is no plan to duplicate Java 8 support. So in whatever near future we don't plan to duplicate Java 8 support as work files. There is no plan to change the default Java in Docker images. So if you run Jenkins, Jenkins latest, it will stay on Java 8 in a feasible future. But maybe something will change maybe in three years or so because we have a lot of CSS releases and when Java 11 is widely adopted. So it's okay then that the plugins are built with Java 8 and even desirable that they're built with Java 8. It's just a runtime safety on Java 11. Exactly, you get the point. I think that, by the way, I'm going to use your point to insist that we do not think and we encourage plugin developers to not release any plugin that is compiled again Java 11 against a Java 11 because we do not plan to, as Oleg was saying in the foreseeable future, to upgrade Jenkins score to require Jenkins Java 11 in the foreseeable future. It's going to be probably, obviously it will happen in three, four years, I don't know, maybe before, but not soon, that's for sure. So if you don't want to cut yourself from the user base, if you release some plugin that's requiring Java 11, then you would already obviously be cutting yourself from a certain amount of instances out there that will be running Java 8 because, as you know, it's impossible to do that. We have some plan to offer filtering by Java version in Update Centers, but so far it's not implemented. Yeah, and in addition to what Oleg was saying, you have to be aware as a plugin developer that right now, Jenkins score has no idea what minimum version of Java means, meaning if you release your plugin as a plugin developer, or normal way, I would say, nowadays, then a Jenkins instance out there running, and if your plugin is requiring Java 11, a Jenkins instance nowadays running 8 would see that plugin, no issue, would be able to download, install it, restart, and it would crash. So there are probably a few doubts or debates we should check if it would crash your all instances or if only the plugin would fail, but probably you don't want to try either. So in short, don't do it. Exactly. You can just do it right now, but we are upgrading our plugin pumps. Yeah, but again, there are two things here. We are talking about two types of users here. We do welcome people to hack on it and try things and to see how it works. That's pretty well welcome and crushing things are actually the kind of thing we welcome and understanding what crushes Jenkins and what does not. So that's something, that's kind of contribution. If you want to try things and your goal is to make sure nothing crashes, then that's another story. And then you don't want to install things that compile or release or encourage that crushing basically. So we were around here. I think basically we anyway started to discuss what we want to cover here in terms of content. It's because yeah, we want to make sure we are clear about the fact that this is the stage, probably even more than before, where we welcome contributions because we have been testing a lot. We have been fixing a lot of things. We are using it in some cases in many areas. So we need to start some kind of real world battle testing checking that things work in more exotic use cases or in less mainstream plugins if you have a plugin that you know are installed like, you know, a few hundreds of times across the world given the statistics, then if you're a user of that, it's likely a very good idea to give it a try because then if you don't when we make when we reach the state where Java 11 is announced at CA, then and for some reason you are required by your IT or something to migrate your Jenkins to Java 11 that plugin might crash and you might not be able to update so that might be a more or less issue, a bigger issue for your case. It's basically rather sooner than later, so now is a good time for that. How to test and report issues? Testing already gave you the right links, the right entry points to be able to run Jenkins to run Jenkins. So, how to report and to look for existing issues in Jenkins. We created a dedicated page in the Wiki known as as you can see and in the bottom of it you can see that there is going to be an auto-populating list of Geras that are actually populated by the fact that any Gera that's found in the Jenkins tracker that's got the Java 11 compatibility level is going to be displayed here. As you can see, by the way, we welcome by the way any kind of text or whatever notes here, definitely, but if you have a very well described and you want to contribute even better, we probably welcome even more issues that are filed the right way with the right level, the right component that we can try edge, link things together and so here it would appear here and we would then try to then try to see what we can do and what's the urgency and everything. So, that's the entry point you want to use when you're contributing some time, some effort, some energy to testing Jenkins on Java 11. This is where you would go to report and to see how to report issues. Also, I think we can say safely that you would be welcome to use obviously I think it's open here the platform thing, platformer sig chat because this is where people are more alive and discussing issues or that maybe, you know, if something you don't have no idea how to file it, why, I mean where if this is really an issue, a known one or whatever, then this is the place to go. So now about non-competibilities. Right now, the Jenkins CI slash Blue Ocean image is not adapted to Java 11. There are, to be honest, discussions about the fact that will it be ever adapted but that's another story but yeah, that's something we know about. So, what is now left kind of for the road to the general availability? There are a few blockers which are generally listed under that epic but basically what we want to I'm going kind of a repeat what I was saying like five minutes ago we want testing, we want more we want more feedback, we want people to contribute some testing time ideally and so we already know a few issues for instance that one was the one about pipeline support issue which is now fixed for Java 11 but it's kind of a temporary fix and the long term fix is still going to be, is still being worked on. This is the thing we discussed also a bit earlier about the fact that the core is currently unable so Jen can score now if you send it to Java 11 compiled plugin it's going to try and install it even if it's running Java 8. We and Oleg has been doing a lot of work around that we did some already initial work to actually now plugins are you can upgrade to the plugin pump for plugins to be able to actually publish your metadata about the minimum version of Java you're requiring so now we publish that and so now we need to close the loop by making sure Jenkins can consume that metadata and filter out the plugins that have been compiled for a version that is higher than the current runtime it's running with after GA obviously there's going to be maintenance there's going to be fixing fallouts so we do encourage reports again we will probably consider sooner rather sooner or later adapting or so tools like Evergreen for instance it might make sense at some point to switch automatically Evergreen users to run on Java 11 because this is well one of the places where it does make a lot of sense because Evergreen is supposed to be always up to date so upgrading Java itself is making a lot of sense there too we probably will update also Jenkins takes but yeah that's something for really more longer term I would say not long long term but at least a few months and then obviously questions but yeah it probably will make sense given the fact that so if people are not aware yet starting with Java 9 and it got clarified progressively but basically now the JDK cadence release cadence is accelerating so we are going to have I think it's every six months a new version of Java and an LTS every few versions so I remember exactly the the jumps it's time but basically we are going to see Java 12, Java 13, Java 14 Java 15 in less than two years so this means that we are going to also probably think about how we test Jenkins how we support Jenkins with new versions and so yeah it would probably make sense to start at some point but rather sooner than later testing Jenkins on Java 12 and maybe the upcoming ones like so there's 13 basically so summarizing the links and the interesting entry points and I think now I'm going to just give back the mic and we are going to try and address questions or comments if any so one question I have is like do you have any specific ways that you would like people to test or just like load up Jenkins and use it what kind of things are you looking for I would say it's more the latter like use Jenkins the way you're using Jenkins usually and if it works then great that's already something and by the way you feel free to actually come back to us and say well I'm going to stop no I'm not going to stop sharing if I need to something I would say yeah come back to us and say I've tested my use case like all my use case and nothing ever failed that's already something very cool to know about so I mean this is not going to be a Jira I filed a Jira I have an issue nothing failed but yeah it's going to be interesting to know if actually you weren't able to crush Jenkins basically so that's already something but yeah definitely use Jenkins the way you use Jenkins usually and that's already exactly what we are waiting for I think I don't know what other things but that's already something yeah yeah that's something we need and we welcome everybody to submit your feedback if you open the blog post there are guidelines about that because this feedback will really will be really useful for us to plan other the steps of testing we want to cover a lot of plugins but not all 1500 ones so for some cases we still need to know about problem areas and how we would approach that and every input from you will help us to organize the work properly so yeah there is Java 11 support team formed to maintain this effort and any kind of inputs for us will be useful so we can prioritize our work accordingly to the feedback I've been amazed that with 180,000 installations there are so many unique and distinct ways that people can use Jenkins it's probable that any one of us on this meet up today is doing something novel that other people aren't so any testing of Java 11 has a good probability of finding things that are both interesting and useful for others in the community and still serving your needs exactly I mean that's the point that's why we are doing this in the first place we are trying to reach out to you community the Jenkins user community because we really need people to you know be sure more certain that we are not going to break user setups basically yes we think of that actually this is a preview like you said it's not ready for production yeah in your other people on the call can talk about this as well after you how not ready for production are we talking is it are you guys, you have a set of known issues do you still have aside from those what's your sense of like if I have you know Jenkins obviously I won't be using in the production but like if I have a test instance should I go ahead and throw it on there to see what happens absolutely yeah I mean and I think Oleg can talk even more about that but I've been testing it a lot on my side for instance and I've basically issued that we've been discussing a lot and now is having a fix for it I was never able to crash the instance for Java 11 reason apart from known cases that should be fixed for you so yeah the exception being that there are thousands of plugins so if you haven't touched we wouldn't be able to touch all of them so that's what part of why we're asking exactly I think Oleg has been running the Java 11 based instance for some time or so yeah I'm running my home server it's totally not a production server full disclaimer but I was I've been running it on Java 10 since August and then I switched to Java 11 as a part of the Wops world Jenkins world hackathon so now it runs on Java 11 I haven't seen any real issues but I use only a subset of features about particular cases to test actually all plugins which use external libraries for example to parse test reports to do publishing to external services it would be the top priority to try out because these libraries may be not compatible with Java 11 on their own and actually the most of work we were doing over past months is getting upstream updates integrated and getting some changes delivered to upstream outside the Jenkins project and if you're interested to test the plugins maybe it would be the first area to focus on and Mark you are the container of the Git plugin at least a beta of the Git plugin and the Git client plugin right and have you tried those on Jenkins 11 I was running them in fact we had to run them on an early Java 11 version it's no longer required that's fixed now but it's been running it runs quite well so I love Oleg's earlier description in an earlier conversation most Jenkins demonstrations on Java 11 are boring because they look just like Jenkins on Java 8 there isn't an awful lot of shock value there there's an awful lot of testing we need to do and there's an awful lot of documentation and exploration that we need but in terms of behavior it behaves very very well yeah that's the point that we had the education this morning if we were going to do a demo that's why we didn't do a demo today because we thought it would be very boring in the end I saw the slide and I'm like oh right you just scooted past that because it's like well here's Jenkins right so yeah no not really I mean I mean from your user standpoint there's nothing different really this is really a development issue that's going on to actually fix it the right way for long term but the fix that you have right now for Java 11 specifically is working for Java 11 you can just not use that and you know if you want well you're becoming a Jenkins developer we welcome people in the Jenkins dev community but if you try to for instance install the version that was listed here basically 3.0, alpha, 3.0 it's called very specifically 3.0, Java 11, alpha 1 I think if you try to for instance use that one on Java 8 then we cannot guarantee anything right but so that's why it's pretty you know it's not backward compatible there are a few issues around that so that's why we are saying beware about that but basically if you just use it the normal way you shouldn't expect any kind of special behavior coming from pipeline we do know for instance that fix is going to make data coming from previous pipelines fully or partly I'm not absolutely sure I'm not from the pipeline team not backward compatible so that means that you could be for instance not able if you restart Java 8 running Jenkins instance with a running pipeline you restart and run on Java 11 you might run into issues right you will definitely run into issues if you do that yeah so that's a pretty specific case let's see Baptiste could you minimize the video so looking at the presentation thanks so Baptiste one of the questions that came to me was what are the compatibility constraints with regard to servers and agents so my understanding is that keep the JDK the same on the master and the agents always that's whether Java 8 or Java 11 don't mix and match chaos will result if you do mix and match this is actually already something that's the case so right now you should already I mean right now this issue has progressively disappeared because we've been bumping the minimum requirement for Jenkins to Java 8 some time ago since the 2.60 .x LTS version right so now the issue kind of disappeared but before it was an issue meaning even before and even how Jenkins architecture works you must not ever make Java agent Jenkins remodeling Java agent work on version of the JDK that is different from the one on the master so there are a few specific specifics about that but basically yes for instance to be more specific you cannot run and you must not run because it will crash and the bad thing about that is that some it might work but start working and you will hit and you will have issues if you run for instance agents running Java 8 and the master running Java 11 you have to bump everything so again that doesn't mean that you cannot run any Java 8 9 10 11 workload that's something different you can basically run whatever you want from Jenkins we are really talking here about the thing needed and used for running Jenkins itself not for running the builds which is really something totally different we might I think I know what you are going to talk about yeah I just wanted to say that there is a Java support page on Jenkins.io website so you can navigate to this page and find all the information how to run these things and how to well it may be difficult to find it such way I always use Google to find it and I think it's more something like requirements like this I would send the link platforms it's add new requirements basically we link that from some places absolutely so one of the things potential users should be aware of there is a Maven plugin around and this Maven plugin architecturally it uses remote to have communication between Jenkins master and running Maven instances and it means that if you update to Java 11 you will have to build your plugins or your projects with Java 11 as well so this is the only exception from common guideline that you can build your projects on different versions if you use Maven plugin you always have to use the same version as on Jenkins master I pasted the the link it's just Maven this plugin that was one other question here so if I'm running Jenkins on Java 8 can I do and I want to run it on Java 11 can I run that really complicated command line but just use my existing instance shut it down, spin it up in Java 11 is that going to change anything or can I just spin it down again and bring it back up in Java 8 are any of the configuration files changed? I would not recommend doing that if you were able to copy your data to some test instance and do that then definitely do it because it's going to make a lot of sense obviously that goes without saying because you were saying don't do that on your production I would say even without talking about Java 11 bump, don't do that do your upgrade testing separately from your production instance obviously but even if I have a staging Jenkins and I want to I should treat this as though I were doing an upgrade that can't be reversed somewhat yeah not just somewhat, I think you should treat it as a non-reversible there are too many opportunities for failure in trying to go back from Java 8 or Java 11 to Java 8 just treat it as non-reversible the workflow plug-in change, certainly other changes Java's own changes there are just too many things that are likely to break in going backwards I would say Mark anyway treat any Jenkins upgrade as non-reversible that's why we we're very interesting and get back to something previous basically that's why we we're very interesting and get back to something previous to backup basically Jenkins downgrades should always happen through backups I should treat this as an upgrade not as something where I could do have a Docker image of one and then run a different Docker image using the same underlying folder sometimes in some versions this is not one of those things you should just do not overlap that's got it because well I mean it's really welcome and if someone is willing to do that we are definitely going to be welcoming this but we probably need to document it but it's going to mean switching your if you're using Docker it should be quite easy if you're not then well it should be feasible too but you know you have then to switch to use the right switches and everything so yeah for the sake of this discussion and this video let's just advise people not to do that because it sounds like you're like maybe no let's well I mean if you're testing if you're okay with it blowing up then exactly I mean if you're testing environment and everything is ready to spawn from your production something that would be a testing environment then that's definitely the place where you are freely and generally probably feel free and you know convertible to play and break everything because that's the place to break things right so this is the difference between devs talking and ops and test talking we just have slightly different terms for things right yeah like sure go ahead why not and I'm like oh god no don't do that yeah that means I mean we are we are still again that that's kind of wrap everything I'm saying inside the this is not a prediction propose released and inside that context then you can say okay if you have a testing environment then that makes sense to use that as kind of to try to use you know leverage that to provide feedback upstream to the community of Jenkins community to actually help yourself not getting into issues later basically okay cool so now one of the things that was mentioned earlier in the slides is that there's no blue ocean image from the docker image perspective but can you confirm that blue ocean works and is worth testing in the java 11 environment yep I mean oh like I think it was feel free to go I was about to comment on that because actually we have notion packaging it's just not official ocean packaging due to some reasons so you can follow the work around and it's also referenced from the blog post it's a fully operational version of the ocean on java 11 and it also includes pipeline support patches so one of the issues you may hit is when you update your instances you have to update pipeline support plugin to the version what is was referencing in this image everything is bundled so once you run that you get everything out of the box and yeah blue ocean is totally operational so it's just a matter of time and of decision making when we offer Jenkins a blue ocean image as official one okay so I can run my usual workflows the things I'm doing blue ocean pipeline work all those things in java 11 exactly and actually during the last hackathons we spent a lot of time in exploratory testing so we were doing things like job this we were testing configuration as code we were testing maybe integration plugin surprisingly it worked on java 11 without any issues but we tested a lot of functionality on both linux windows and it works if we talk about exotic platforms then yeah this is also an area where everybody participating here could try testing Jenkins because yeah we test only on the basic platforms so if you have an access to whatever java 11 setup which uses for example ZFS or something like that it would be really interesting to get information whether it works at all because we didn't test it so far great and yeah if you by the way I was thinking that you were talking about kofi gas code in every way we under the hood use kofi gas code so we can say for sure that after adrian's demo and adrian's work that kofi gas code on java 11 does work so obviously there's always dragons because we are not using every single thing and this is not really kofi gas code itself it could be a plugin that's not compliant or whatever but yeah we nothing surfaced in that regard there for instance so yeah I think we are we have still a bit of time so we are still able to cover a bit of questions if there are we got one more could can you give some hints of ways that issues or bugs manifest themselves when I'm running in java 11 so that I know what to be watching what are some of the places where we get common failures and so I can look there good question so there are there is the obvious one well if you see the n-grid Jenkins and like or he is not even starting then this is already something you want to report so as we were saying we don't expect that to happen or maybe with some exotic plugins that might be doing something in the very early stages that will be crushing the whole thing so might happen or I would say the other thing that springs to mind is that's kind of user facing would say in the build console itself I think which you could be seeing some weird behavior there or be on stack traces mainly and the third I would say because we've seen a few of them but we know about a lot of them I think already is the warnings and stack traces you could see from the Jenkins logs itself for instance there are a few logs already known about the fact that so starting with Java 9 and the monologization and basically for Jenkins on Java 11 for instance now in Java it's not allowed anymore to or easy or kind of allowed anymore to use reflection and Jenkins and like any Java app has been using reflection a lot and so we see big warnings coming from the metrics plugin and the money plugin like this but these has been made warning only sometimes since we actually started working and testing Jenkins the Java team actually reverted that change to make that warning only but yeah we welcome any feedback in that regard obviously so we didn't I think we didn't focus on that but please when you report an incompatibility please if you can try and spend a few seconds before filing a new one if there's an existing one so that you can maybe watch it or vote for it something like this so that we don't end up having a lot of duplicates if something is already known about for instance so here I'm going to take maybe that one I don't know I think it's a recent one you can vote here or you can if I mean you're welcome to comment here but please comment obviously if this is adding something to the table or start working on it to fix it or whatever but yeah that that's I think that that's the thing is this kind of covering your question or did I forget some aspects that was great thank you thanks very much so the Jenkins log file job failures looking for interesting exceptions the angry Jenkins all sound like great ways thanks we're at 10 minutes left what else do you want to say here I think if there is any question we are obviously happy to cover so one question was could I join the Java 11 support team if so how do I do that that was one that there may be others who want to be part of helping us make Java 11 support better so I think the as document but I am not going to require to require people to everyone to read that the whole document but there's so this is basically sending joining the platform seek sending an email to reform see me as I was referring to earlier and then it would be joining the Jenkins team yeah right so most people who don't have admin access can't get to that team no you need to be a member of Jenkins CI organization so probably going to the platform so you can ask someone to exactly would be the way to go and if you're a Jenkins CI org member you probably just should be able to click join or request joining here so just to be clear to Java 11 support team this is the team founded mostly to do trade show defects initial routing etc so it's a kind of bug trace team which kind of exists in Jenkins project but focusing on Java 11 issue specifically if you want to help if you want to contribute if you want to test that we don't expect full commitment from anybody you can just join our charts we have discussions there and then if you want to deep dive in Java 11 of course you're welcome to join this team yeah that's a great point Oleg anyone from 2 minutes to 2 years of commitment is fine so we'll come any kind of contribution obviously right and even more than 2 years speaking of contributions there is platform special interest group meetings the next meeting is scheduled to Thursday this week it's something like 2pm UTC if you're a developer if you want to know more about how to develop with Java 11 how to test with Java 11 you can just join this platform seek meeting and we can discuss there and if there is more need we can stop sessions on demand in whatever time zones so if you have questions one of the purposes of Java 11 support team is to actually help others to adopt it and we are here to help when needed great so that would be roughly 2 hours before the starting of the meeting today for mapping that to time zones a little early for us Pacific time zone a lot of Jenkins project meeting have been done at 8 or 9pm here so I guess it's fine to do that sometimes in the other way but we can organize I think that was the point is that we can organize more meetings as we needed so that's why we have special interest groups and now we have much more flexibility about organizing events maybe then Jenkins community I think we are mostly done I think we've covered all the questions that have come up online I want to thank everybody for being here today thank you Baptiste for presenting and building these questions Oleg for leading and everyone else in the call for participating do you guys anyone else on the participants list here have anything they want to add are you guys all good okay great thank you very much you can join us on IRC and on Gitter and I'll add a link to the presentation to the YouTube description when we're done here alright thanks everyone thanks bye