 Tell me what's extreme, a slaughterhouse or vegans? Vegans are way more extreme. Come on. Oh, are you the animals' advocate? When did they hire you to defend them? You don't think killing is extreme? No. Very aggressive in the way you put your commentaries. And this is why people are less willing to listen and to empathize with what you say. Shooting animals is aggressive. You told me you're never going to stop. I'm never going to stop. But you're not going to reduce, and you're never going to stop. I love it. So when you talk, there's two different things. Ah. All right, so we're out here in Covent Gardens. We've got a table here. It says, why on earth aren't you vegan? We're going to ask some people why they aren't vegan. Let's go. Debate time. Come on. Don't be shy. You know you want to. I think even this question here, it might plant a seed in someone's mind. I know it seems small and, like, trivial. But it is a good question. Like, why aren't you vegan? It might be a little question that leads them on to a journey of discovery. You're sitting on the side and you were very smiley. And I said, why aren't you vegan, and you said you eat lots of meat? Yeah, I love meat. You love meat? Yes. I used to eat a lot of meat, and I used to have it on my plate, and I couldn't imagine not eating it. Yeah. I used to freak me out, actually. I used to think, what am I going to eat if I don't eat meat? That's like, I used to make me scared. I'm not that extreme, Mrs. Like, oh really? Yeah. So you're not scared not to eat meat? No. So why do you eat it? Why do you eat meat? To be honest, I eat meat for two, like, reasons. Main reasons, let's go. I do like the taste of it, and the texture and everything. Taste and texture? Yeah, and the second thing is, there are certain, like, nutrients that I can get easily from meat. I know you can get them somewhere else, but it's easy. You think it's more bioavailable or something in meat? Yes. And what are those nutrients? For example, I know omega-3. You can get it from fish or meat. You can, there's lots of iron, lots of, like, other. Iron from blood. Yes. Do you know that iron is in their blood? Yes. But you can get iron from the steak as well, for example. Yeah, yeah. Give it the, the iron, heme iron, is blood iron. Oh, well, my husband's a biologist, he will know more than me. Your husband's a biologist? Yes. Like, human biologist? Yes. So how do you feel about getting iron from blood? The blood of an animal that was killed? I'm OK with it, as long as I do try and make sure that I get, like, meat that's, like, sustainably sourced. And I know that some people will say, oh, but you cannot just say you killed an animal and then it's sustainable. I could make the claim to killing humans, couldn't I? It's pretty sustainable to kill humans. I mean, it then comes back down to more philosophical questions like, do you think that killing a whole human, killing, like, a chicken, is the same thing? Well, they don't have to be the same to both be bad. Now we're here. I like this pastry. So nutrients, we don't really have to go into nutrients because you know you can get them from elsewhere. But you're not eating meat to survive. Technically. I know some people that went vegan. Are you eating meat to survive? Because I want to address this, what's the difference between killing a human and an animal? OK. So I don't eat meat to actually survive, because I think I know people that survive without meat. Do you think I eat meat? I don't know. Do you think I eat meat? You cannot just look at someone and think, oh, wait, it's just based on the sign. To be honest, I thought it was more like, oh, why are you not vegan? You shouldn't be vegan in the first place. Oh, you thought I was anti-vegan. You tricked me. Oh, God, that's extremely vegan. Why did I get myself into it? I'm the level 1,000 vegan. Oh, God. I'm the most vegan vegan you ever get to be. The good thing is I'm not an extreme meter. OK, you're not an extreme meter now. So you're not going to beat me up or anything? No. Are you? No, no, no, of course not. Can we establish whether or not you're eating meat to survive, or you think you're eating meat to survive? So I haven't survived without meat. So I'm going to assume that I'm surviving on meat. Let's just say you can get iron, B12. What was it? What was your nutrients? Iron and omega-3? No, yes. Yeah, you got to be very mean because I know omega-3 comes from fish mainly. But where did the fish get the omega-3 from? How did the fish get it in their body? Oh, my God, you're going there. Yeah, OK. How did they get it? I don't know. They eat algae from their diet. You know, for example, when you eat meat, sometimes the animal eats, let's say, the greens, and they process it into something that sometimes human body cannot process it into. EPA, DHA? I don't know. OK, we don't know. But basically, there are algae-based supplements that we can eat so we bypass the fish. If you can have supplements that will replace all the things that you can get from animals, that means that you cannot have a very complete diet without the supplements. Only one, B12? Yeah. B12 is one that you need to supplement. The rest can be obtained by diet. You should supplement with vitamin D if it's winter in a cloudy country. OK. So, yes, I do agree with supplements. Do you disagree with the supplements? I agree that you should get as much as... Yeah, you should get as much as... Wait around and we'll have a debate. You want to have a debate? Don't, don't come here. We can. I'll have to make my prison life with you. Oh, my God. I'm open about it. OK. If you can get it from foods, I'd rather get something from food than from supplements. Why do you have a problem with supplements? Why do you have a problem with meat? Because you're cutting an animal's head off and killing them. Supplements. You're probably paying a lot like pharma companies and big companies to produce that. Yes. Do you think your local store from next door will produce supplements? Yeah. OK. Where do you buy your supplements from? Holland and Barret. Yeah, that's your next door. Yeah, there's plenty of Holland and Barret's around or the internet. So, wait a second. You don't use medicine? I try not to, to be honest. That's what you can laugh about it. But what I'm saying is... You don't go to the dentist. You don't use technology. You do everything from nature, like eating... I try as much as I can, especially when I put inside my body. I will take medicine. If I am ill... If you have a headache, do you take a panadol? That's what I'm saying. When I'm like, no, if I'm ill, I'll have medicine. So why wouldn't you do it to supplements? I won't insert supplements on my daily basis, just because. Okay, let me ask you this. This is good. I'm getting here. Because if I have a headache, I will take medicine. If I need B12, I don't want to murder an animal to get that B12. Oh, I love this, because you're a very extremist. I don't know. Wait, wait, wait. It's murder to kill an animal. It's not murder. So do you think a lion is a murderer because he's killing the view? I think the act of killing an animal if they don't want to die is murder. Yes. So a lion is a murderer? I don't think you're not a lion. A shark is a murderer. No, one sec, one sec. You're going very extremist, because not... You're not a shark or a lion, so you have morals. Oh, okay. But I didn't kill the salmon. You paid someone to kill them. I didn't kill it. You paid someone to kill them. If I pay someone to kill you, am I responsible? Depends. If you're saying that killing like a cow and killing me is the same thing, maybe you are. No, no, we're back here. Yeah. So remember we said this at the start, the chicken and the cumin. This is good. So basically, you're going well. You're back here to this... What's the difference? You are getting B12 or iron, right? You have to raise an animal in a farm. Yes. Kill that animal and they don't want to die. Because they're sentient conscious experience. You're killing them. So you can get a nutrient or vitamin that you can get from a supplement very easily. Or food. Do you think it's morally justified to kill an animal to get something out of their blood? Yes. Instead of taking... When you can easily take a supplement or get it from plants. You know that it's there and I'm not a scientist, so I don't know the facts behind it like very clearly. But I'm interested in this. And when I can, I can substitute. For example, I try to eat less meat. I know that most meats are not produced in a sustainable way. So I don't... But in terms of the killing, like you're saying... Why would you try to eat less meat? You need it for your supplements. Yes, but you can balance your diet. Why would you eat less meat? Why do you eat less meat? You think it's bad? Yes, for the environment because the way they produce it, not because the meat itself is the way they produce the meat. OK, but wait a second. So everyone's eating meat. Let's just say for your reason, for supplements, it's destroying the environment. Is that justified when you can have a supplement? Everyone's eating meat so they can get these vitamins. It's destroying the earth. Do you think that's justified so we can get these vitamins? Or would you say if the earth was about to be destroyed, should we have a supplement? If the world is about to be destroyed, we should have a pill instead of eating altogether. Let me propose... Like one pill that replaces all the food. We don't need to because plant foods are fine. We're growing all the plants to feed to animals. That's not true. You know that. We are. You know, like, single, like, cultural, like when you have this whole plot of land that you're just producing one thing over and over again because everyone now... I know what you're talking about. Most of the monocrops are fed to animals. Yes, monocrops. No, not really. Yes, you are. You have like the extensive places. For example, they produce avocado because it's now the new hot thing in our, like, millennials want to eat avocado. I do eat avocado. So what's your problem with it? There are a lot of people that get killed because of avocados in Mexico, and this is not talked about. So I'm going to eat... So you shouldn't be eating avocado. You should be only eating plants that you plant in your backyard. You're suggesting that everyone needs to grow food in their backyard to be ethical? No, I'm saying you. No, no, no, no, no. So the way you are saying it, because you are not 100% sure that all the vegetables you're getting from the shop are, like, morally sustainable. You're just assuming because you're buying probably the logo that's organic. Organic just says that they don't use pesticides. I don't buy organic. I don't know, but I'm just saying. The vegetables, you're just buying them, assuming that they're better than the meat. But the vegetables, a lot of people get, like, smuggled and trafficked to work, like... Evidence? Evidence. I'm not a scientist. I don't care. I do care here, like, with the... So if you show me, right, enough evidence that a certain vegetable is rife with slavery, then I will say, yeah, well, we should boycott our vegetable. If people are getting shot in the head and cut up into pieces for a steak, then I would say that's just as bad. But let me just propose this to you, because now you're saying plant foods are immoral and I need to grow a garden. No, I'm not saying it's immoral. I'm saying is you are just assuming that the meat is immoral and anything else is great. No, never said that. It's not true. I didn't say that it's immoral as well. You're putting words in my mouth, but I do the same. You say, I didn't say that. Okay, let me just say this to you. Most of the plants on Earth, most of the farmland, is being used for animals. 83% of the world's farmland. I don't know what you're saying. I will believe you, because you're extremist. Yeah, I understand what you mean. Shooting an animal for a nutrient for a vitamin is extreme. Me shooting you so I can get, you have B12 and iron. I'm not the same as a, like a cow. You're not making sense of your argument. I'm not saying you are the same as a cow, but the things that matter about me, you, and an animal are what I care about. Like experience, they don't want to die, they suffer, they feel pain, they want to live. Does a cow have moral value? I don't know. I don't know any cows. Are you against animal cruelty? Yes. Why? If you don't care about them? Because I think you should. You said you compare a cow to a human. Do you agree that there's like a food chain? Are you comparing a cow to a human? Why do you care about them? I don't compare a cow to a human. However, I think that we as a human that like are on the top of the chain. You want a food chain? Yes. Wait, wait, food chain, yes, food chain. You're in nature like a lion, here we go. Yeah, it doesn't matter. You have a food chain and we eat like cows, cows it's plant, for example. But we eat another... Do you eat gorillas? I don't eat gorillas. Do you eat... But I would eat them if they put them out there to eat. Do you eat elephant? I would eat them if they put them. You eat a monkey. Yeah, I would. Shoot a monkey and eat them? What if you had a vegan product? It's very hypocritical for someone that eats meat to say I will eat a cow, but I won't eat like a dog or a cat. I think it's very hypocritical. So if I cut a dog's head off and fry them up, would you eat them? I preferential, I wouldn't eat them because I grew up to learn that dogs are like companions. But they're part of the food chain. I agree. That's why I'm saying it's hypocritical if someone tells you they won't eat it for sure, but they will eat the cow. I won't eat it because I'm not used to it in my culture, but I won't judge anyone that eats it. What is the food chain? Tell me. I believe that the smaller, very simply, the smaller we'll eat the bigger one, we'll eat the smaller one. So it's okay for the big animals to eat us? If they can, why not? So can I feed you to a bigger animal? You're not... That's the food chain. You don't want to die, do you? You don't want to be food, do you? That is very tricky of you. You don't want to be food, do you? I don't think you're even here for discussion. You're just here to make your point. I think food chain is a natural thing. If you feed me to... It's not... If there's a lion here and it kills someone, it's one thing. Would you want me to kill the lion to stop him from eating it for me? Yes, because I think... So why should we stop you from eating the cow? A human life is more... For me, it's more like... Worthy than a cow's life. I'm sorry and... Does that mean we can kill the cow? For eating, yes. Why? Just because you want a burger? No, because... Now we can kill animals because you want a burger. Oh, I love it. I love it because this is literally... So English is not my first language. And I just learned... Thank you. I've learned this expression. I think this is what you're doing. You're just using like a strawman argument. Yes, you're saying that I'm killing the... Like a whole cow for one burger. I read about... Yes. Killing a cow so you can have a burger? Of course a cow has to... It's silly because I'm not just gonna have a burger. I think, for example, what's morally incorrect... What are you gonna have? If you kill a cow just to have one burger, it's wrong. If you kill a cow and you use all the parts of the cow to feed loads of people, I don't think it's wrong. I just... Well, how does a cow feel about that? I don't know how... Do you speak to cows? Did I tell you they feel bad? Why do you know that animal... Why is animal cruelty wrong? Because it's human. Can you speak to the cow? No. So how do you know what's wrong? My idea of what's wrong is... So it's only wrong to you? It's not wrong to the cow. It's a living being that deserves being treated well. Even though they're being raised to eat, I can raise hands and feed them to my family. No, no, no, no. Not cows, let's say. Let's say, is it wrong? Why are you more attached to cows than hands? Do you have anything about hands? I don't eat hands either. I think birds are beautiful. I wouldn't eat one. Oh, shame on you. They're delicious. Shame on me for not killing the birds? I don't kill them. Actually, I just buy them. I already killed and I just eat them. You pay someone to kill them? Yeah, kind of, yeah. You pay someone to kill the birds? The same way you kill someone, you pay someone to harvest your broccoli. So what? Yeah, so what? It's the same. What's the matter with broccoli? What's the matter with chicken? I love them. Broccoli is not a sentient conscious being that doesn't want to die. Until, as far as you know... Are you making the claim that broccoli is a conscious being? Bring it on. And your partner is a biologist? I don't know. I'm just saying I don't know. As your partner, if a broccoli has a brain and a nervous system. Now you're going to hate me because he is for animal testing because now you're going to hate me now. No, no. I think that what you do is just as bad or worse than animal testing because you're eating more and killing more animals than animal testing. By far, 70 to 80 billion land animals are being slaughtered every year and between one and three trillion marine animals. Yes. You know, I'm not telling you... How many crop deaths are there? How bad is plants compared to that? And you know, we have to feed all those animals plants. So if you think plants eating plants is bad, you would stop eating animals. The only reason... Because most of the plants are fed to animals. Woo-hoo! The only reason, for example, I thought of, okay, I'm going to reduce the amount of meat I eat is because I know of the danger and the harm the environment suffers because of people producing meat in, like, excessive ways. And I think it is excessive the way we eat meat nowadays. I don't disagree with that. The thing I'm saying is there are ways of producing not only meat but vegetables because, as I told you, the same, like, the monocrops is also bad for the... I already told you most of the monocrops are being fed to animals. And I already told you, I don't agree with that. But you eat animals, so if you're against monocrops, you should stop eating animals. I don't agree because there's loads of, like, land that are producing just one... Why do you eat chickens? Because I love them. I don't want to jump to the topic. So I thought it was because of nutrients. Nutrients as well, yes. What nutrients to get out of a chicken? All the protein I need. You can't get protein from other plants? Do you think that I can get the same amount of protein from plants than I can get from, like... 100%. 100% of the same amounts. Absolutely, you can. How much broccoli do I have to eat to have the same protein I get in a chicken? Why would you compare broccoli to it? I'm talking about... I don't know, you attached to cows, I'm attached to broccoli, sorry. Satan, which is a... Satan, do you know what Satan is? Yeah. Okay, that is 75% protein. And chicken breast is about... How much of that do you have to eat to compare to, like, a steak of chicken? Less. A steak of chicken, no, chicken breast. 100 grams of satan flour has 75 grams of protein. Okay, I don't know how many... So why would you... So you're saying, like, even... Let's just say you have to eat more. Yeah. How much protein do you need a day? I know how much I have to eat. Do you do weights? Are you an athlete? Yeah, I train a lot. You train a lot? So how much protein do you have to eat a day? My personal training is the... The maths, I just know the amount. So I have, like, 125 grams of, like, chicken breast. I have two eggs for breakfast. And then I have protein yogurt for lunch and for snacks. So I don't know how much protein exactly that is, but I know that most of the... That's why I pay a professional. I should know all the statistics... So you got your diet done. No, I should know all the statistics that you know, but because this is your job to convince me to be configured, and you know the statistics that I don't. And this is how it works. I cannot know everything that I should know. Well, so back to that. Yeah, yeah. I get most of my protein from animal sources. Even then, I told her, I want to reduce the amount of meat I eat in a week. So, for example, I eat three times, four times a week. The other days, I try to replace it with other things. I'm not sure I'm getting the same amount of protein I should be, but I'm willing to sacrifice that. The overall, what I want to say is... You're willing to sacrifice it for what? I really... To eat less meat? Yes. But you won't sacrifice it to be vegan for the animals? Because I won't get the amount of protein. But you said no, no, you said... I'm willing to sacrifice some meals of protein. If you could get enough protein, would you stop killing the animals? There's the... You don't remember the first thing I told you, the first component. I really like it and enjoy it. You say taste? Yeah. And we can get to that. So, do you have enough nutrients and protein? Yes. If you found that out... Yes. I would reduce. I won't stop. I will reduce. I won't stop. So, reduce to that. Now, the only thing holding you back is you like the taste. Yes. This is why I think you're defending it. Taste and the texture. This is why I think you're defending it more. Maybe. Yeah. So, do you think that your taste... Taste is a pleasure experience that you get. Yeah. And when you eat, it's only for 10 minutes, 15 minutes maybe. How long does it take for you to finish your meal? Usually, it takes me 30 minutes to 45 minutes because I eat very slow. Okay. And what happens to the animals so you can have 30 minutes of taste for it? Of satisfaction. Mmm. I don't know, to be honest. Okay. I know that they have to be killed. No, no, no. That's nothing. Unless it's lobster because my mom cooked that in my life. You're going to hate me for this. Well, sorry. I don't... I think you're quite pleasant to be around. Thank you. And quite entertaining and a nice smile. Thanks. I do think you're justifying if you knew the depths of it. Because if you knew exactly what you were trying to justify, you'd probably feel a little bit uncomfortable about it. I have witnessed the farming practices in the UK for many years. Most of the animals here are factory farms. Over 95% of the chickens are in factory farms and they're born into the Frankenstein bodies and they fall on their faces and die in the sheds often. There's a 4% death rate. I just want to stop you there and say one thing. This is where lots of vegan people that have good intentions lose people when they start shouting facts that are just too overwhelming. You lost me for 30 seconds there. I just had 4% of something. Do you think that you can suffer in these farms? I do think. That's why I try to reduce the amount of... And how much do you think they suffer? I don't know. I cannot quantify their suffering. Okay. For that bird. Not from your perspective. From the bird's perspective. Try to put yourself in the animal's position. And they are born into innocents. They don't know where they are. I understand. And their body is growing really fast and there's thousands of birds around them. I understand where you're going. And they become lame because they're growing too fast. So do you think that suffering is bad for them? Of course it is. Okay. I'm telling you this is the only reason I'm reducing the amount of meat I eat. It's because I think they're not raised in a proper way. You never said that. You originally said it was for sustainability. Yes. It's not sustainable the way they raise them. May I change it? No, no, no. When I say sustainability, I think it's not sustainable the way they grow them. You have to be putting more antibiotics into your body because they're more and more crowded. That's not sustainable. It's not morally correct, but it's not sustainable as well. You cannot continue to... I want to talk about ethics because if you were suffering, I'd be more concerned about your welfare and I wouldn't want you to be shot in the head and eaten either. Oh, thank you. You know what I mean? But I don't think you afford that same compassion to the animals that you eat. Yeah, I try. You don't. I might be very ignorant in what I'm saying. I don't think you try at all actually. I don't think you've considered this to this conversation. That's fine. This is where you vegan people... a little bit of effort is not enough. And this is where you lose people because people are trying to do a little bit and you're like, this is not enough. You are mean because you are... No, no, no. I said, you told me you get most of your protein from animals. I do. But still I told you and you disregarded this that I'm trying to eat less meat and you straight went to shooting animals in the head. Because most people say that and most people eat meat three times a day or eggs and cheese or milk. No, I don't eat milk. Thank you. He's defending the chickens. Yes, I could have killed it but I didn't see. I have morals. You even won't kill the fly but you'll kill... Maybe if you're going to eat the fly and the fly takes it. If somebody killed it for me, I would take it. If they had iron in there, you might go... You know that the next thing is bugs? You won't eat the bugs as well now. I don't think it's justified even if they have a small experience. Fair enough. So, I think... I have my morals and my reasons. What are they? What are your morals when it comes to animals? My morals are I would like to... And I'm not able to control all the factors that are involved in this but I would be a... I want to for the animals to have the most decent life they could have until they're slaughtered. Why? I know they have to be slaughtered for me to eat them. But why do you think they deserve a decent life? Because decency is not negotiable for me. Not for you. For everyone. I speak for me because I cannot speak for everyone. You were eating them. You were eating them. Yes. For example. Why is it good to have a decent life? Because they're sentient beings and you're going to be like oh, he regret but they are killing them. Okay, yeah. Why is it... I believe... Why is sentience important? Because... Why is experience and sentience important? For us, when you're looking after your children they are sentient beings but because they cannot choose for themselves you are choosing for them. For me cows are sentient beings. They cannot choose whether they are killed or not. I'm sorry darling. I'm going to have my steak. However, I would like for them to be treated well until they are slaughtered. Is that what compassion you are going to give them? Yes. Make sure you don't torture them before you kill them because it makes me feel a bit bad. Yes. I don't care how you feel about being killed. I don't think anyone can argue you out of it because you are just so in your box. Because if you... You look like a tennis ball going from one point to the other inside your own box. You were trying to justify killing and I'm trying to ask you not to kill. Animal alive. So who's extreme here? I think you're extreme. I'm extreme. We're all extreme. No, no, no. One second, one second. You think I'm extreme. I think you're extreme. What's more extreme? Killing the cow or leaving the cow live? I don't think that any extreme in all of that. You don't think killing is extreme? No. For me to eat I don't kill them for sport. You don't need it to eat. That's what I'm saying. I need it to eat. You don't need it because you don't want... I need it to eat. So you would die without me? Yes. I think that there is a cause behind what you're saying and what you're doing. I think if you put the message there in a more... How should I tell you? In a more... Will you stop? Wait. In a more agreeable way. Will you stop? You will get better results. Will you stop because... Will you stop being agreeable with you? You are being disagreeable just by the way you are talking to me. Tell me how I should say it to you right now when I'll say it to you. If you introduce the idea if someone that eats meat let's say as you said every day if you introduce the idea why don't you try and reduce meat? This is how they introduce it to me. Why would I ask you to reduce killing? Why don't you finish it? No, I want you to tell me no, I want you to tell me how I can convince you to be vegan right now. Tell me how. First thing is one step out of the way and you're trying for me to go from a meat eater every day to a whole like another extreme of not touching meat again and I think that's a very extreme. People work in processes. People work... So how many steps do you need? Should I tell you you need? Every step is progress. For the rest of your life do you need? You don't consider every step progress. You think it's one way or the other and this is where when we need how long do you need? I don't know but I want to adapt. You're not giving me a practical I want to tell When I came to this country I ate meat for every meal I had. I started knowing nice people I'm sorry I'm not saying you're not nice but you're very extremist. I started to know nice people that were willing to talk about their vegetarian and I started to eat less meat. I'm not saying I'm ever going to be meat free There you go you just said it So it doesn't matter it doesn't matter how I address you That's the point The problem is you're ignoring progress Is that true? You're ignoring progress You said you're never going to stop eating meat I said I would never stop I said I would I spoke to you exactly the same as I spoke to the last two people And you convinced them? Well I've convinced thousands and thousands of thousands Even the comment section how many people I've convinced you can just buy great people care about animals But that's progress But do you think that the one day they stopped It's you that won't change It's nothing to do with what I'm saying The thing is I'm telling you I will never stop When I came here I said I will never be like trying not to eat meat After five years in London I've started to reduce the amount of meat because human beings change And what I'm saying is right now I think I would never stop eating meat But you are saying if you're not willing to do the commitment You said I should be more agreeable when you would have changed And then you're saying you're not going to change So there's nothing I can say I don't think I'm going to change And that's why you're being defensive because you don't want to change But five years ago I didn't think I was going to change It's not my fault that you won't change You won't change because you don't care about animals That's the problem Okay, see That's the problem It's not my fault You won't change because it's you You are very aggressive in the way you put your commentaries And this is why people are less willing to listen and to like remembering pigs is aggressive Cutting chickens heads off is aggressive You will never get anyone to like to change with this kind of attitude I'm sorry Comment down below I will go and see Look at the comment section What's your channel called? Joey Carbs from I will have a look at it and I will comment and you will see me So you think I'm too aggressive for people to change but the truth is not nice Yeah, I think The truth is not nice What you're paying for is horrible for the animals I'm defending them And you're saying I don't care I'm never going to stop eating them I love it You know, it's the same thing You're trying to destroy your arguments with like very aggressive Oh, are you the animals advocate? When did they hire you to defend them? Why did they ask you? They are vulnerable They can't That's what I'm saying I could use I could use very aggressive I could use very aggressive You would lose still because what you're doing is horrible Disagreeable things to like destroy your arguments And it's got to be mostly silly but some people will be yeah, yeah go for eating as you but no I don't think that you could rationalize with like extremists Exactly I'm trying to rationalize with an extremist I'm glad that you think that even meat after telling you that I'm trying to reduce the amount of meat I eat you think I'm an extremist No, you told me you're never going to stop I'm never going to stop So what's the difference you're not going to reduce you're never going to stop I love it I love it Look at a slaughterhouse You look like a smart guy but I don't think you know how to argue with your Tell me what's extremist slaughterhouse or vegans What's more extreme? Vegans are way more extreme Come on a sanctuary than a slaughterhouse Anyone that's not vegan will agree that you guys are too extreme and this is why people don't stop to listen You have nice arguments you have compelling reasons and I understand but the thing is you're very aggressive in the way you put your message through and that's why it just makes people don't want to Do you think cows think we're aggressive or do they think you're aggressive I never spoke to a cow unless it's like I think I would agree that we're not aggressive and you are I don't know you cannot speak for a cow I have to go sorry Thank you very much It didn't matter how I approached that She admitted that she wasn't going to change My attitude had nothing to do with her not wanting to change She said she eats lots of meat She likes a taste Period Now I'm extreme Vegans are extreme for not wanting animals to be shot in the head head cut off go into gas chambers The moment I started talking about chicken suffering she switched off she doesn't want to hear that She's cold when it comes to animals but maybe if she actually witnessed it she'd be different I think it's easy to sit there and say I don't care about that I don't care about their suffering I don't care about the blood and fear in a slaughterhouse until you see it She thinks I'm ridiculous and extreme but really I know exactly what she's trying to justify and that's much more extreme than this conversation will ever be