 So I'll call to order the Committee of the Whole meeting and I will ask for a roll call Thank you Warren Berg Serta present graph Excuse Davis excused Hannah Kittleson Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemure Ratke Ryan Excuseed Susha here Vander wheel here for hassle 13 present Thank you, and we have a quorum and We will start with item number three discussion and possible action regarding the changing of North 7th Street and North 9th Street from one way to a two-way If you could start your presentation Good evening, you know the saying the more things change the more they remain the same Well, that's kind of what's going on here We've gone from a from a time where our city was dense everybody Was in close proximity to each other people were able to walk to work people were able to Be entertained all within a close area and then we moved into an era where the freeway came along and Started to draw people further away from there we a Lot of the industry a lot of the businesses that were in the downtown area the residences all moved out to the suburbs and Now we're starting to see a reemergent type of development coming back into the downtown where people are starting to come back in again and Tonight I was going to make a presentation about the 7th and 9th Street conversion from one way to two way Our city grid It's kind of hard to see but this is our downtown area with 8th Street running up the middle here 7th Street over here in 9th Street over here When we look at our city We look at an area of where we're trying to make a living where we spend our money and where we live Our central grid system has remained intact, but improvements have been made I Went over the the pre freeway era where at one time we Had a dense area of downtown and then we moved into the Freeway area where era where we started to move out of the downtown Coming back in again the post freeway where the businesses started to leave the area And now we're coming back into an area where we're redeveloping again in Okay, we're in a matter of perspectives I've got an engineer's perspective the user's perspective and the businesses perspective and From the engineer's perspective one way streets are great for moving Moving people to and from point A to point B and to do it efficiently and without Impacting the safety of our residents so we're concerned with point-to-point travel our pedestrian crossings and Some of the inefficiencies with one-way streets is that there are multiple turns there is pedestrian conflicts caused by some of the additional turning and increased fuel emissions From a business perspective, it's okay. One way streets are okay for the people who know where they're going but as our community is developing more and more we're branching out into areas where People are not from familiar with the area and the one-way streets are confusing to them users perspectives They're great for commuting that was great in the 1970s when we Need to get into town just for business and they get back home again There's minimal delay with one-way streets, but it is inconvenient for the business-to-business trips that our tourism areas growing and There's more turning traffic for pedestrian crossings because not only are you do you have to go around the block? Or I'm sorry, not only can you go from block to block, but you have to go around the block and make several turning movements We did meet with the businesses we sent notices out to all the businesses in the area bounded by Pennsylvania Avenue Erie Avenue 7th Street and 9th Street We invited them all to the committee the whole meeting this evening We received approximately Eight phone calls that were all in favor of making the conversion from one way to two-way streets We also met with the businesses at request and we met with about eight of those businesses and To take into their concerns as to the improvements that would need to be made Those businesses were in favor of that also We also received I received personally one call saying that they weren't in favor of it and why change anything, but It's working the fine the way it is But what we're trying to do here is is increase the circulation and livability of our downtown area some of the improvements that are going to be made or need to be made necessary for the centers for To make it a two-way street Is that the intersection of Erie and 9th 9th Street? Our proposal is to create a left turn only lane With the dedicated left turn arrow for northbound traffic at Erie Avenue This will take some of the traffic problems that we have over a 10th Street Where we don't have enough room to have a turn lane there and Move some of that traffic over to 9th Street so that we were able to allow more more movement from to go from The northbound left out of town We are projecting that we're going to have to remove parking along the east side of Erie or 9th Street To approximately where the alley is in order to accommodate the through movement and the left turn lanes At that intersection further on down on 9th Street at the intersection of Wisconsin Avenue We did an engineering study at this intersection and determined that the traffic signals were not necessary due to traffic volumes the type of accidents that were happening there that were low impact and that The traffic volumes just weren't there so what we did was we met with the school Trinity Lutheran school here and Asked for their input on this intersection because this is a school crossing and What we determined to do at this intersection is to create the bump out so that they only have 24 feet of crossing across 9th Street on both sides here and Creating a four-way stop condition at this intersection and the school is okay with that At the intersection of New York Avenue It will remain a two-way stop condition as it currently is But what we're going to do is put up some mid-block flashers for approaching traffic to warn that the fire station is exiting on to or crossing 9th Avenue or 9th Street the The crossings will activate when the the fire department hits their button in an emergency situation so that These the flashers will come on indicate that there's going to be a fire vehicle crossing the intersection The intersection of 9th Street in Center Avenue We also did an engineering study there with traffic counts and determined that most of the I'm sorry the The traffic signals did not warrant. We're not warranted at this location Due to the low volumes and that a four-way stop condition would also benefit this area At the intersection of 9th Avenue and our 9th Street in Pennsylvania Avenue We are creating a media in here to prevent left turning vehicles into the post office and the car dealership that's here on the corner and There is a possibility that we may have to put in a left turn lane Going from the eastbound traffic on to northbound here And there will be some traffic signal improvements at that time also when we do the modifications Over on 7th and Pennsylvania Again, we're removing the traffic signals here the the traffic counts that we took did not warrant the traffic signal at that location and We're creating a media in here to split the traffic for left turning traffic that threw in the right and to prevent oncoming traffic from Going straight through on 7th Street Up at Center Avenue where there's existing traffic signals that will become a two-way stop and We met with the police and fire department to make sure that that was okay with them And they were fine with the location of this this will allow 7th Street to proceed all the way through up to Niagara Avenue I'm sorry, Wisconsin the There is this the u.s. First national bank u.s. Bank parking lot and the city parking lot I think it's 13 We're going to have to do some modifications to the driveway entrances because currently it is a in only and an out only So we're going to have to recreate this intersection the driveway up here Remove this section down here in order to get the traffic in and out We still have to work out the logistics with transit and how we're going to gate that but That's one of the improvements that are going to have to be made at the senior at this parking lot entrance Up at Wisconsin Avenue. We're going to create a three-way stop We're going to bump out the intersection here because of the crossings that we have from the the senior said the landmark towers the The cooler that's not we're you know colors down here Yonkers it provides a better access back and forth between the residential side of things and the shopping side of things We put the three-way stop here to stop the traffic so that the pedestrians can get across a little more easily This is another Zoom of this we're going to have to close off the driveway here and relocate it up here and This is just another showing of the three-way stop at that intersection last Intersection is up at Erie those signals will also be removed to create a four-way stop and The through-movement will be able to continue on north and south through this intersection So it should be an improvement to this area the cost and recommendations The the cost for this is conversion would be approximately seventy thousand dollars in hard concrete work Some of this work will be bid with the 2007 resurfacing program and a part of this will be in the Department of Public Works With the electrical and some striping and signing conditions And we wanted to recommend approval of this ordinance to convert a seventh the seventh and ninth Street to two-way And Happy to answer any questions that you might have Don't need the element have questions All of them born Thank You, Mr. Chairman Could you go over the changes around the post office again? Possibly creating a left-turn lane on Pennsylvania Avenue turning on tonight streets going northbound and there'll be some traffic signal modifications for Where they'll will still will where they'll Will there be access? Into the post office parking lot Like there is now for that drive-through mailbox in a park in the lot and go into the front of the post office That'll still be there the same circulation pattern that is there now for the post office Where do you have to enter off a 10th Street come around the block and into the parking lot will still be there? Okay, and that's the primary route that anyone would be using for the post office We didn't want to have Vehicles wanting to turn into there because it would create a traffic back up at that intersection So the traffic circulation we met with the post office and that's what their recommend our recommendation was with them and they If I could just follow up and then also you mentioned you talked to a number of businesses in the area What percentage of the businesses would you say are in favor of making the change and then did you also consult with? Residential property owners about their feelings on the change Everyone But you didn't get any negative comments back from residential or or business everybody was on board Thank you Thank you Holder Montemar Thank You Chairman van der Wilk I think the the engineering department has done a good job with this It really does lay out lots of good information and I know what the public protection and safety meeting mr. Sasma Let us know that he had sent out a lot of letters, and he also let us know that it was Very few I mean like one or two that said they don't want it to be done Now I did receive one telephone call from one gentleman Who did want it to continue? He's not a person in in this downtown area at all So that the people could get through the city more quickly, which is the purpose of the one way However, I think now the purpose is that they don't get through the city quickly that it is slower That it's much easier to maneuver downtown and especially for tourists coming here visitors coming here and even just us Well, I love the words about less emission. So thank you very much for doing your work Thank you President brook Yes, I think it was chairman outside of the parking utility will any of the budding property owners be subject to a special assessment? Thank you Okay, thank you all the money client who knows? Thank you. I have two questions Will we lose parking downtown because of some of these adjustments to corners or in that kind of thing will it be parking lost on the street? Did you see okay, you don't know how many though huh Okay, that's on the streets themselves Right, okay, the next question is curious. What do you do with all the stoplights? You don't use anymore are those gonna can you recycle those or are those things that become obsolete or? Do we have other plans for stoplights somewhere else in town that we could just replant them somewhere else or? Okay, okay I Guess so all right. Thank you Aluminum kittleson. Oh, thank you. Mr. Chair just wondering bill will say this word to be approved How long would this conversion take to do? I mean would it a month two months? I mean how long would that do you know? Approximately wouldn't take long Okay Okay, and and then the other question is you said approximately $70,000 to do this is in the budget money for this or that would In the resurfacing program, okay, thanks Aluminum Susha Thank You mr. Chairman. I did talk to several of the downtown merchants, and I got very favorable feedback I was concerned about the Yonkers Docs because they're in line right now with a one-way and I talked to the manager and they're very excited to Have the two-way traffic. They think it'll be better for their business I also received a call from apartment manager that runs or maybe owns one of the apartments downtown And he thought it also would be beneficial that he'd be able to rent out his apartments more easily by having two-way traffic So I did only receive one phone call and that was this morning of one resident against it So I have to say that more pros were coming in more positives about this change, and I appreciate that But when the Michigan Avenue project was complete I did receive a couple of calls from the merchants in that area Asking why we put up four-way stop signs I think we took out some stop lights and we just automatically put the four-way stop signs up and they felt that initially Too many people were just blowing right through them on Michigan Avenue They didn't even see them, and I'm wondering I know that it's a number of cars have to go through an intersection to warrant A stop light and I would assume there's a number of cars that have to go through to warrant a four-way stop Do we have any of the the places where you're talking about putting in the four-way stops? Are any of those eligible of going down to two-way stops? Bustation and back and forth again, so we wanted to keep that available for them to cross a little more easily the I think that all the stop signs as four ways that are presented here tonight are warranted and I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend going down to two-way stops. Thank you Thank you All in recce thank you, mr. Chairman As long as I can remember And I think this happened in the 60s probably a few years old when it changed me into the one-way streets How are we going to I like this idea going to a how we're going to educate the public to this? For many years and especially since the Plaza eight days and myself included I'm used to the two-way or the one-way streets around the downtown How are we going to educate them is to the fact that from Penn to Erie and 7th and 9th that we're now two-way traffic Is there any plan in place and how to get that out see a display at the library or something of that nature because this is That's the only problem. I can see is get the hurry educated in that because to this day I mean I still have a problem with going north on 9th Street from Erie Avenue. It just doesn't sink into this minute Yeah, we're gonna be doing a pretty extensive public outreach program this to To get everybody involved When it when it comes down to actually putting up or converting the signs I would say probably we will be running some variable message boards indicating that The sign that will be changing within one week two weeks three weeks ahead of time So that the people that commute back and forth all the time will be notified of that The people that come here right off the bat, you know, they're not going to notice anything different But you're right. We have to hit those commuters. We have to hit the people that come through here every day And it's it's gonna be hard to change a force. I have to have it up on When we converted 7th and 9th Street up on from Michigan to Erie Avenue the same problem that you brought up You know people are still doing it today. They're they're driving down the wrong way and It's it's gonna be a change that's gonna take time just like the one-way is dead Go ahead as a creature have it I still stop westbound in Michigan after the 13th Street That stop sign has been gone for years already. I just create your habit. What is the timeline? I'm doing this by the end of the summer or what's your hope? We'd like to have everything ready by the end of summer before school starts Thank you and on that I have a question Penn to Erie is gonna be a two-way and then Penn Avenue to where is gonna be a one-way? Pennsylvania Avenue to the south to 8th Street will be one-way and It will remain the same everything south of Pennsylvania will remain as it is one-way Thank you, right the swings All the member hassle. Thank you, Mr. Chair Bill could you just explain do you foresee any major business stoppages as a result of the construction process? I mean Michigan Avenue got a lot of publicity in that respect, and I'm just hoping we don't cost too much stress on the local businesses No, most of the the construction that will be done Especially with the concrete work will be done one side at a time And we make sure we'll make sure that the entrances to the parking lots are open before we start tearing into something else the I Wouldn't foresee any any stoppages We work with the businesses to make sure that they know when The the driveways will be closed or we'll leave half open at a time We we'll make sure that they get in there. There won't be any problems. Okay. Good. All right. Thank you all of them. I Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm just kind of concerned about the farmers market at Fountain Park I know they have been using the 9th Street for unloading and they have been parking their vehicles along there Do we have any plans in talking to the farmers market to explain to them what's going to happen and Are we gonna let them unload or are they just gonna have to use the other three? Roads Yeah, we spoke with the person who heads that up I don't remember what his name was but we met with him and explained the plan up there by 9th Street and Erie Avenue He's he said that you know, that's the way it's got to be and he'll work around it Thank you. Yeah, Bob Holland from the Shiboy County Interfaith who kind of runs the farmers market We've spoke with him and what we last year We didn't utilize a street because it was under construction and because of the removal of parking on 9th Street They thought they'd utilize Erie and then try to utilize 8th Street this year as part of their vending operation so he he seemed to be Amiable to that and looking at it and working with us and but So it looks like it could be a good good fit for him, especially with a street being kind of more prominent area with the water feature in that Thank you I know that along the ways when we were talking about the development of the Highland House and The development of the Kepsel building there was conversation about moving the farmers market down there to the new plaza area One sets up and running and I think that would even be more successful. Is that going to be happening within the next two years? Maybe I think Paul that is here I know I know that has been discussed of potential happening. It all depends on it gets how fast that development takes off in that area But yeah, I think that's something that warrants looking into in the future All right. Thank you So any other questions from the Alderman? Alderman Montemar Thank you Chairman Vanderweil. I move that the community of the whole send a favorable recommendation to the Common Council I have a motion a second I Is there any discussion on the motion all in favor signify by saying aye Triple time motion passes Thank you for the presentation Alderman for hassle. Can we turn the lights on please? Thank you Next on the agenda is I'm number four communication number 90 0607 from Tabitha Steinbach asking if there has been any dialogue with the Common Council regarding the DSL coverage in the city of Sheboygan. I had spoke with Miss Steinbach and After there was the article in the paper She was able to get DSL. So I Guess if we want DSL quicker, we maybe need to complain to the phone company. Otherwise. I know the city's Working on it to get more DSL in In other areas. Is there any other discussion? I Have a motion by Alderman racket a file and a second if there's no discussion All in favor signify by saying aye Trivals I motion passes Next on the agenda is communication number 90 0607. Sorry. We did that one already I'm number five communication number 93 0607 From Herman Leonard stating that he is opposed to the possibility of changing the mayor's status To an appointment position or a manager's position because a taxpayer and a citizen of Sheboygan He believes all citizens should have the right to vote and elect their choice of mayor and we already took care of this Motion to file By Alderman Hannah and second Discussion Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Leonard is a constituent of mine and I left the message for him this morning Telling him that number five items number five and six were going to be discussed tonight And I invited him if you wanted to make any comments I have not met mr. Leonard personally. So I don't know if he's here or not. Is mr. Leonard here tonight. I Don't believe he is. Okay. Thank you. Is there any other discussion on the motion? All in favor signify by saying aye Triple time motion passes Next on the agenda is item number six communication number 940607 from Herman Leonard stating that he proposes that any city all the person cannot hold a position on the county board At the same time as being an all-the-person as this is a conflict of interest motion Motion to file in the second any other discussion Alderman Susha Thank You mr. Chairman Last week there was a joint meeting between salary and grievance and the civil service commission and after reviewing the civil service guidelines There is a segment in there that says that when you are an elected official that you cannot hold the office in any other Elected position. So I think it is already in the civil service guidelines. It's just it. We weren't aware of it in the past Okay, thank you all the man Susha Alderman Mayer thank you mr. Chairman I'm seeing that we have this information who is to enforce this because we have had a situation where we've had an Alderperson sitting on council and on the county board who who's in charge of enforcing this Someone can look into Maybe Almasusha mentioned and Syracan human resources. So Alderman Racky Hey, mr. Chairman my question is would be is that a state law that prohibits that or is that just a local law that would prohibit that? Alderman Susha That was just in the rules and regulations of the civil service commission. I don't know if it's a state law I know that locally that is what the civil service commission has adopted Thank you Wouldn't that be something then mr. Chairman should we take up with the state elections board to make sure that we're proper in that? That's something we should look into I'm born Would it be appropriate to? Refer mr. Herman's doc Mr. Leonard's document to Salvi and grievances to get you know to get a legal opinion on that and then refer it back again It's just wondering if that would be appropriate If if this committee would agree to it we can make them to a motion Alderman Racky Thank You mr. Chair. I would make a motion. We refer this to the civil service commission. I have a motion to Refer to the civil service commission In a second discussion regarding the motion to refer hearing none All in favor signify by saying aye Sure. What's I motion passes? Next on the agendas. I'm number seven our own number 3 1 7 0 6 0 7 by the finance director Submitting a report clarifying the council authority under the state tax levy limit controls. This is just something we never took care of in the past Motion a second file is there any other discussion? Hearing none all in favor signify by saying aye Chair votes aye motion passes I'm number eight is a copy of our own number 4 5 3 0 6 0 7 by the city clerk submitting a Communication from all the person born with an article entitled city should be more to look deliberate about financing tools I'm born. Thank You mr. Chairman this Document came before finance some time ago and besides the article that I submitted Paulette enters that it's extensive report on tax and credit incremental financing districts and Rich Gebhardt also discussed it and I would like to refer this to the Committee of the whole of the new council. I believe with the number of new alderman. We may be What will be coming on board with the new council? That this would if not be an entire meeting of a committee of the whole I think it would be good for Paulette and rich to give the same presentation to the rest of the council because Tiff districts are Sometimes misunderstood or not fully understood and I think this especially with new people coming on the council would make for an interesting presentation for the council So I'd like to refer this to the Committee of the whole of the new council. Thank you make a motion to that effect I have a motion of seconds referred to the new committee the whole council on a discussion element Hannah Yes, I just it was an excellent article that Alderman born refer to us and also the work that Paulette did I would hope that we could have that the article and Paulette's follow-up report on our website because I think it is a commonly misunderstood concept And I think it's a nice they treated the the material in a complete fashion So if I don't know whether Sue Richards is the In charge of making sure documents get up there But if we can make sure that that one gets up there, it'd be great I'll talk to Paulette and Sue Richards who we can do about that Thank you. Is there any any other discussion on the motion to refer? Hearing none all the papers in the five by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye motion passes Next on the agenda is item number nine our own number of five three four oh six oh seven by the city Proxima communication from Gerald Miller stating his upset with the opposition to the grandstay hotel being built in the South Pier district Is mr. Miller here tonight? All right, is there any discussion on this item? Aluminum sushi I'll move to file second Motion to second the file And then under discussion I think what we have here is we have a taxpayer who's on a fixed income who wasn't happy with The thought that the city had about not allowing grandstay to come in here Because if you bring in more development that should increase the tax base which would ultimately reduce property taxes and what it says in his letter is that his property taxes still went up 487 dollars even though supposedly the city froze the levy and We'll file this tonight, but I would ask that and the new council has put set perhaps the next committee that chair The committee the whole chairperson could have Maria Alice come back in and explain to us how the reassessment was done because I don't Thoroughly understand it and I've asked a lot of questions And I don't know how we can expect the residents to understand how the reassessment was done So I would hope that that would be a topic of a future committee the whole meeting Sounds good. Thank you. I will communicate with the next whole chair Is there any other discussion on the motion? Hearing none all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye motion passes Number 10 on the agenda is RC number 541 Oh five oh six by the community of the whole regarding our own number five nine nine oh five oh six By the city clerk submitting a communication from Gina Steinard Staying the concerns of her and her neighbors regarding the faulty camera and Sheridan Park and the fact that this issue is not being addressed by the Committee on public protection and safety Motion a second to file this This item was from the last committee the whole and I see that Gina Steinard is here I'm gonna give her the opportunity to speak on her On her communication if you'd like to come forward Thank you for letting me speak on this um I know it would probably be quick to be Motion to file because it's the third year that we're trying to get this issue addressed The reason why we brought it up my neighborhood Has some of People in the area have been concerned because when there was Child I'm not sure how old he was he was down at the land park Either fell pushed whatever into the lake the camera down there too is only a live feed They did not ever find out exactly what happened to that Boy down there whether he was killed committed suicide or what and the mother was very upset She had called one of my neighbors. That's why she had said, you know, it's not a good thing to have these cameras They're supposed to be a threat when they don't actually record. They don't actually perform the duties that you would think a camera would do because Financing I guess and The problem being that you know, yeah, some people say that Sheridan Park so safe and all that well, you know They don't live there. They don't know this for a fact. We just had police there last week with some gang situations We do have gangs that live right next to the park I don't want to see another child killed before something happens And I just don't think it's right that we should have cameras that are supposedly a threat But they don't actually work other than a live feed and the police have much more important things to do Then just sit there and watch a screen all day to make sure that nothing's going on and Really, I've already looked into this. It's only gonna cost between $2500 and $3,000 Paulette Enders said that we do qualify for a block grant for this reason So if someone forwards the Sun to get a block grant done Looked into that can be paid for otherwise if there's some business people out there that do care about the safety of the Sheridan Park Area we could sure use that extra financing only $3,000. We've already spent over a hundred thousand on playground equipment and street Signage and all this other improvements putting a camera in will ensure that the vandals and Gangs won't be able to just get away with wrecking it all again and not being caught doing it Plus it'll ensure that when our kids go there that they're protected that the gangs can't just follow them home And there won't be any problems that arise from it and You know, I know that there are some of you that just don't agree with that and that's just fine But I live there. There's a lot of us my neighbors that live there and we've come to many meetings before this I really don't want to get into an argument about what's safe and what isn't safe The point is it's just a little bit of money and it'll be solved And then I won't be driving you crazy for another three years bringing the same issue up So I really like to get it resolved sooner or later. Thank you Thank you, and we've uh You can sit down if you like We've looked at this simple protection of safety and In community I said if a if a business would give us money to put these cameras up I would like to see us have cameras like Milwaukee or Chicago does with intelligent cameras along the lake Along the riverfront and in parks where we have problems, but it all comes down to money And I guess I'd ask Paulette. I know we were looking into it about the community block grant and That staff member has left. Do you have any information on that? Thank you We we did discuss this item in the naming rights committee because we talked about funding avenues Because it's Sheridan Park and it's a low-income neighborhood. It could potentially be an eligible activity but I think it was Tom Holton that was looking at it and I Think there was he was going to make some kind of contact with the individual that's in charge of the police department and their Electronics and I'm not quite sure if that ever occurred so I you know because it's not as simple as just a camera You know is it do you record the information? As Gina had mentioned, you know, are you watching a camera 24-7? You can't just put up a camera and then how many locations so we were looking for some type of technical advice And I I don't know if that's ever been received All right. Thank you Alderman Rehassle, thank you, Mr. Chair I I can feel for Miss Steiner because this has been a hot potato for it seems like a two going on three years here now And I think as a council and a committee the whole I think we just need to take some action on it and get some activity going We're only talking between two and three thousand dollars from all the estimates that I've heard I think we just need to make that investment. We've as Gina pointed out We've invested over a hundred thousand dollars Upwards of three hundred thousand dollars in that entire area surrounding the park And I think between two and three thousand dollars is a small investment to give us a little insurance on what we were already stuck in So I don't know if we need to make a motion to authorize Then the planning department to utilize CDBG funds or where we at with this What do we knew what do we need to do? I guess to make it I think it needs to go to finance with a favorable recommendation from this committee If you would like to make a motion like a make a motion to refer this to finance Second I have a motion a second to refer to finance So discussion regarding the camera referring it to finance Alderman Cleveness I Guess my questions were operationally How could this be monitored because camera is effective as long as somebody's looking through it and There's some record of activity So I would hope that that could be looked into as well as to whether it's a citizens effort If the police don't have the time and I can understand that that it doesn't take time just to stand and I sit and look at monitors That maybe there's some sit citizen action that could be done on this on a volunteer basis or something But I do think there's a lot to this if we take on the responsibility of monitoring activity with a camera you also have to take on the responsibility of tracking that and Recording it and keeping records of you know the different days and things like that. It becomes quite a responsibility And just not setting up a camera on a roof The last thank you The last discussion I had on this involved a camera with a DVD in it That would record 12 or 18 hours and then somebody would have to constantly change the DVD and and that's as far as it be was With staff we'd have to figure out who'd be in charge of that Almond Susha Thank You mr. Chairman. I will be voting no to refer this document To finance tonight because I feel that it's it's not the proper way to handle it I think that being that this letter came in a year and a half ago or whenever we've talked about it already I believe in public protection safety several times. It's gone to finance several times We now have a park and forestry committee Reactivated and I think the recommendation should come from them because I don't think we can sit here and say Sheridan park is the only park Or the most deserving park for this type of technology And I think it should really come from the park and forestry commission with the recommendation after they talked to the police Department in regards to the monitoring and things like that So so I'm going to vote no to refer it because I think it should be filed not to say the issue should be dead But I think it should come from the park and forestry commission Thank You mr. Susha Almond Meyer. Did this go through parks and forestry or? Area but none of them are in the park It's the area around the park and I know there are a couple other parks like and park and Roosevelt Park that have an Extreme amount of vandalism and I I support we should file this the issues can be looked at in park and forestry And they need to be prioritized as to which parks truly need this type of surveillance All right. Thank you President Berg. Yes, thank you, Mr. Jim I believe when this came through public protection and safety the opinion of the staff of police department Although was that this could be helpful, but they didn't see this as a critical addition And I think many of their comments essentially mirrored the comments that are made tonight that if you're going to be looking at Using cameras you need to have some level and sense of prioritizing rather than just putting them in in one particular place And I guess that's where I would take issue with the referral to finance The you can find the dollars perhaps but just because you put the dollars there does that necessarily mean that's the best plan given that We are building a new police department. We are likely going to have some level of ability to do some Transmission directly and again if you have a matter like this. Do you really have several cameras feeding into one large hard drive? Or a special server I think there are some technical issues that that for me go beyond putting a camera in a park and then somebody Retrieving a DVD at the end of the day and things like this So I think it's a larger issue. So I'm going to vote against the referral to finance Thank you President Berg All member hassle. Thank you, Mr. Chair I guess I compare this to a situation if we bought a brand new car and then we don't take out the insurance We're very vulnerable. We just stuck in like I said almost 300 350 thousand dollars in that entire area $100,000 in that park alone. I don't argue that there are worse areas in the city The end park is another example you can go out there right now We stuck a lot of money in that park a few years ago and it's constantly going downhill with graffiti Damage to the bathrooms and so on so I'm not arguing that shared in park is the worst situation But I think we it has the potential to be and we've got brand new equipment going in there as we speak So I think we should spend the two three thousand dollars I think it's a fairly inconsequential amount of money considering what we've already spent. We just want to protect what we've got in there, so And again, I'd be for any public Financed area of green space that needs some sort of protection I'd be for putting cameras in all those areas and again just to clarify We're not talking about Replacing the camera so much as adding a recorder if it could be retrofitted if we need to buy a new camera I think the discussion is a camera with a recorder, but if we could put a recorder on our existing camera I think that's all we would need In this document was in Park and Forrester, I believe about two years ago back when Park and Forrester When I was chair of Park and Forrester a few years ago and it again I was I kind of call it a hot potato has been passed around all the place And I think we just need to take some action it's a fairly small amount of money And I think it's a wise use of money All right, thank you and also at in park now we're putting in a splash pad So I do agree with the conversation some of the conversation that you know We're just just one park and that's why I've always thought that if some businesses would come together and give us some money to put It in several parks or if the police would prioritize say well These are the five most dangerous parks or by the riverfront and that's the direction I've been leaning the whole time all the Mineraki. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. I agree with President Berg We have a new police station going up. We're gonna have to be putting new communications equipment into that police station You're talking inconsequential to three thousand dollars, but we start talking to three thousand this part two three thousand that part I think what we need to do is send it to the park and Forestry Commission have them work with you know The police and get the numbers of which parks are the most needed parks to have this The setup and then talk with Russ Schreiner our communications guy and our IS department come up with the most feasible solution As to how to address all those parks at one time because you start two three thousand here two three thousand there If we buy ourselves a large enough server and the proper amount of equipment We could probably have that right here in this building. We don't have to send somebody out the change of DVDs So I mean that's that's the that's what we need to look at so I'm going to vote against going to the finance committee simply because it should be studied back at Park and Forestry with first the numbers of the calls to the parks and then Work with IS and the rest of the people come up with a solution that's going to be cost-effective for everybody and see if we can't work It in with a new police station Thank you, and it's good that we had discussion. It's good discussion on the subject Miss Steinard. I saw you had your hand up. Would you like to comment on what we just discussed? I just wanted to say that it did be great If we could pass it on to a committee with a recommendation like you were just saying about doing a study So that way it will be addressed so that there will be action taken on it because like Paul had said we do qualify for a grant We're not asking that this money be taken away from the police department or something like that Plus I do want to see this in more parks I don't think that Sheridan Park is more important than anybody else is just where I live But it's just that you know, we need to move forward not just keep Killing it filing it and I'm gonna keep bringing it back because I want my kids safe so do my neighbors so do a lot of other people in the city and What happened at D land parks should never happen again So I'm just saying let's move forward like you said send it on to a committee to take some action Please don't let it get filed and let it just die and then I'll me or one of my neighbors is just gonna bring it right back up Again, it's just gonna keep sticking around as an issue and you as a thorn in your side because we really want to see Something positive happen with this and like you said if it's part of the police department and it's worked in That would be great because there is the technology out there It doesn't have to be a DVD changed at the park every day. There's much better technology out there now So all you need to do is look into it. So I appreciate your recommendation. Thank you Thank you all among cleverness. I thank you Gina. Are you working on the block grant? Are you filing that you can't What can't can we use the mics not go back and forth? I'm sorry, sorry about that Um, if you just could yeah, I just think you know I mean I want to encourage her to use that the city You know avenues to do this to follow through on this and that you know, it's because you're a citizen of the city You should be able to yeah To that Department when she said It was just kind of hung up. So okay, I think I just like to say that I agree with a Recommendation that it would go to parks and forestry and they would look at you know I hate to use the word study again But look at really what are the costs because you can say one of the in its there are a few parks that are low to Moderate income. Is it eligible? Yes. Could we use neighborhood improvements? Yes, but I don't think it's just this 2,000 to 2,500 it's it's a larger number if you want to do it right and I think someone you know the police department I Yes should Assist in that analysis Thank you all of them sir. Thank you. Mr. Chairman other person for hassle. Would you consider? Amending your motion and having it refer to park and forestry so we can have some of these questions addressed Yeah, I would consider it. I am concerned though would they would park and forestry have the technical Know-how to come back with any sort of recommendation saying what sort of equipment is necessary and so on I'm not sure what kind of opinion We're looking for from park and forestry You know if we're looking for technical information as to cost size of the camera the amount of recording capabilities Is that the right committee to be sending it to I think from park and forestry? We'd be looking at and Where to put the camera like they'd have to probably get advice from the police advice from the the technical people the chairman would have to call them in and And that's my opinion right now Vice president sir. Thank you, mr. Chairman And if Miss Steinhert could take the some of the questions that we had and maybe partnership that with this communication to park And forestry we can get those questions addressed All right All right, Hannah Whatever committee gets it. I hope that they coordinate with the school district the school district Unfortunately has an expertise in cameras And surveillance and so let's work with the liaison officers and work was they've they've had the Misfortune of investing in cameras that didn't provide quality images and that's not worth the money if you're gonna do It's one of those things that if you do it you need to do it correctly. So Wherever this ends up make sure they they bring the school district into the loop. Maybe there's an opportunity to purchase together Who knows? Thank you and all them and Hannah you're absolutely right a while ago a detective told me that if you have cameras It's only as good For investigated work if you can tell who's on it if it's all grainy you can't see anything to begin with Holder Meyer Thank You mr. Chairman I think park and forestry would be the place to start with this at least we could get some numbers Like they said from the police department find out which parks are are in need of this type of equipment And this might be a wonderful opportunity to also share with other Facets in the city like the school school system We don't have the technical knowledge in park and forestry to say this is the kind of camera We need but I think it would be a really good start and I don't believe it It's not going to be just filed in and I think this is something we really need to pursue After last year all the vandalism that went on it and park. I just think this definitely is something We need to look into and but we do need to prioritize the parks and it is a big expense and you know I think Referring this to park and forestry would be a good start All right. Thank you. Did we have an amendment motion? I'll remember hassle and almond Hannah agreed to amend the motion To send it to park and forestry committee All right Alderman Susha. Thank you I will still vote notice in this to park and forestry because the scope of this letter is only specific to Sheridan Park And I think that being that this has been Out there for so long the proper thing to do tonight is to file the document and come in fresh with a new Document looking at all of the parks to use this letter as a springboard I don't think that's the appropriate thing it needs to come in with a fresh perspective Somebody needs to do the research perhaps a joint meeting between the new public protection safety and the park and forestry Commission might be warranted But to utilize this letter it's been floating out there too long And then it's going to sit in that committee for another six months or so before finally something will have I mean by the time You are done dealing with this one document. You're going to have maybe the turnover of the council two three times yet So I would suggest that we filed this document tonight, but that does not mean this issue is dead We obviously need to look into this further. So for that reason I will vote no on referring this particular document of park and forestry Thank you. Alderman Susha. Alderman reckey. Thank you, mr. Chairman I agree with all the person Susha But is it possible to draft a resolution from the floor of this committee to send to the park and forestry directing Just such a study and to work with the IS and and the communications people in the police department I believe we can do that But it'd be difficult Yeah I'm just gonna take lights as we go and we'll we'll think about that Go ahead those are gonna say I can I'll write it up and bring it for the next council meeting And just just that way as we discussed it as I as I brought it out And we can send it on from there to the new council to the park and forestry Commission just get it going All right, I think that's gonna be a lot cleaner and a lot easier than it's going to address the entire issue Instead of just the one is all the person Susha was referring to So you're suggesting that we've That we say no to referring this to parks and forestry and then you will come in No resolution draft it up tomorrow and bring that in for the next council So then on a on Tuesday the fourth we would we would see a resolution Wednesday. I'm sorry, right Thank you Vice-president sir Thank You mr. Chairman Just courtesy to the citizen miss steinhardt. I understand the concerns that it's been in committee This is I guess proof that it's been in the committee for some time I don't think it's gonna hurt just to forward this on We've had some good discussion here, and I think it's commendable that all the person rack is willing to go ahead and Bring those suggestions forward and again just partnership that with this communication. It's not gonna hurt It's gonna we're listening to the citizens, and I think it's important that we keep their best interests at mind Thank You. Vice-president sir. I'll do my honor. Thank you, mr. Chairman. We do have the chairperson commissioner Montemayor here, and I would like to open the floor to him and maybe he could speak on this That's fine. We don't need a motion if you'd like to come up Thank You mr. Chairman This this did go through the parks at Forster commission did come up. We went through the discussion since we recreated the board and The camera that the missus steinhardt is talking about will cost in approximately about $40,000 and that kind of a system because if you're gonna do it you need to do it right and The Sheridan Park area keeps coming up because it's not in that park We're having the trouble at the present moment. We're having the problem at other parks also the biggest one and and Alderman house is right. We're sticking a lot of money into the Sheridan Park area right now But one of the things that's nice things about it We hadn't had no vandalism since we started putting that equipment in since we put it all that plague Which is a knock on wood? It's great the end park Situation right after that Facility was open the bathroom silly they graffiti that thing and that costs us a lot and they still continues to this day So then mr. Steinhardt's ideas is correct. We need to Do put more security into this we need to put some teeth, but we need to do it right Putting a cheap camera in there where the DVD recorder is not going to do it You have to be able to identify the culprits in these areas I think first of all the Commission the park Enforcement Commission and it's not a law enforcement commission I think before this would come to the Commission You need to refer this to some law enforcement authority. Okay. I would ask for you to Have cheap Kirk Make you out of plan how much a camera like that or cameras would cost Give you an idea How much of his budget would have to be increased to do this? because They would have the authority to do it because there are the law enforcement part of this community I Think that's where this belong then I would go to public Works public protection and safety and then you could go guide it from them And then you can bring it back to the Commission with our recommendations. We are in Vigic Commission So we have no authority other than that Thank you. Thank you, and this was already in public protection safety and It was the feeling of the chief that when you're talking about that kind of money that he has a lot of other places that can go and When his people are called They go and we have a camera there. It has a wide feed But his feeling was it'd be great, but he doesn't He can't afford to take money out of his budget to pay for it so that's why it was filed in public protection safety a while ago and We seem to be going around circles All remember hassle. Thank you, Mr. Chair I mean depending on the type of Annalism I suppose one incident could pay for the camera, but I as far as the funding is concerned I Guess I'd like to ask Paul out if it were the forty thousand dollars that mr. Montmarr just dated Would we still have access to the CDBG funds for that level of funding? While we're waiting for the senders to come up This has gone around circles in public protection safety too And that's why it comes down to if we had two three hundred thousand dollars we'd say okay, let's do it and that's why sometimes I hope that Maybe we'll get the money go ahead and it's just it's a matter of priorities because what you do is you have you know X amount of dollars that's available for neighborhood improvements and so you're just potentially taking it away from a different project and I think that's why it's critical that you Come up with some real costs, you know, what what will it cost to do it the right way? You know and then and then you can take a look at how will that impact your the black black grant dollars that we have available So is the money there? Yes, it is is that what you know, do you want to put all your eggs in one basket? That would be the other question Thank you President I'll move to call the question question has been called I'm just gonna ask for a voice for all in favor of calling the question is that legal can do that Okay, all in favor call the questions and fine by saying aye aye any opposed Motion passes. Okay. The question has been called the Honourment Serta, would you be able to vice-presidents or repeat the motion? This is a motion to refer on this document to Park and Forestry All right on favor Would you like for me to do? Let's do a role. Okay, just in case Bourne Berg Serta I Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemure Ratke Sushia Vanderweel No Burr-Hassel for eyes Nine or the motion motion fails. Yeah, we have a motion to file all the men sushi That's I was gonna say motion to file was well. Let's say there's a new motion motion to file. Could I have a second? All in discussion on the motion All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye Sure, both I Motion file I say no Well, any that's okay. I'm sorry. I should have that's all right I'll insert a post Well, I Missed up any opposed. I That would be to all of them in Kittleson. I'll never have so okay Thank you. I apologize for that. Next on the agenda is I don't do adjourn All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. We're adjourned. Thank you all for coming on such a nice night