 I'm here with Mia Ostro with the school, talking to harp artists for the HowlRound about their projects. The harp is a program at the Hero Arts Center where they give artists multiple years to develop a piece and sometimes it depends on the project and what the artist wants. It goes longer than a couple years, sometimes it's just a year, sometimes they hear, produces the work, sometimes they co-produce, sometimes the artist has a different idea and they do that. So that's that's that program and we just wanted to introduce the HowlRound world a little bit more to some of the artists. So hello, how are you? Hi, thank you for having me. It's nice to talk to you on this winter day. Yeah, so I wanted to, you know, we both have our tea. Yes, I wanted to first get you to describe your project that you're working on at the Hero Arts Center. Sure. So what I'm working on with here and with the generous support as well of Creative Capital is a project called Priestess of Torque. Yes, please. Colin, A Black Thumb Temple to Pleasure. Yeah, that is what it is. I'm working on creating a full-scale immersive participatory temple where Black women are sacred, Black women, femmes and other folks for whom misogyny is a relevant experience. And, you know, the full scope of the thing is still being dreamed up, but I imagine a space that has water, that has saunas, that has hymns and criminals. Yes. That is a fully functioning monastery to Black feminist authors and artists. And of course ends with a concert because there has to be music. And with a concert, you know, well, music will be infused throughout the thing. Of course, there will be different rooms that speak to different kinds of rituals that one can experience when one is there. And so like I imagine actually a very tailored experience to the individual. So you come in, you get your reading from a priestess, you get your itinerary because everybody will meet people along the way, you know, who have similar ritual prescriptions as yourself. Each chamber will have its own priestess, you will be led in some things. You also might get interrupted because the building is alive and who knows what might happen. You might get kind of swirled, swept up somewhere and brought into a dungeon we don't know. But this is kind of the dreaming space that I'm in. I'm in a very activated dreaming space and it's been really fun to be in that place and to feel supported in that and to feel like there is an expanse of time because this is about time. It's about experiencing time and body and space differently. And yeah, just reimagining a world in which Black women and BEMs are free. So that's the big picture. That is amazing. So talk to me about form and how it fits in with ritual for you. Because it sounds like this might have a lot of ritual in it. Yeah, definitely. Well, I think that, you know, I'm always as a creative, I think, you know, creativity hates form in some ways, like in terms of genre, creativity hates genre. And so in terms of like form, I'm just really interested in it. I've never heard anyone say it that way. That's quite one genre hates form. No, creativity hates genre. Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. So like, first of all, I reject, you know, and then I feel I feel like after that, so when we think, so for me, like with that is like the starting place or the door, then I feel really free. And I feel I think it's the form is to be determined. I think that I'm certainly influenced by forms that have been invented by my predecessors, like theatrical jazz, aesthetics, and, you know, other kind of apro-indigenous ritual forms and structures that I have been exposed to and participated in and cultivated inside of my own spiritual life and path. Also part of my, a large part of my dissertation research was around West African and Indigenous American, both Americas, ritual forms and ceremonial logic. And so all of that is just part of the DNA infused into the structure of the piece, really working against the wellness industry or the like capitalization of healing. Virginia Bryce has a beautiful work you're telling me, right? So I'm really excited. But also like asking questions like, but can we still have the nice things? Like, can we still have nice lotions? And so yeah, like, like, in other words, like, like, our ancestors had our ancestors had nice things, like, you know, like, we had our own forms of decadence. We had our own forms of excess and magic. And it didn't mean that it was somebody was oppressing someone in order to get it. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so really, really kind of trying to open up those structures without overvaluing capitalists, wellness industries without overvaluing kind of like, you know, this kind of monarchist vision of like what is beauty and what like royalty, but also wanting to experience really like lushness and luxury and really the best that the best embodied experience that life can offer us. Yeah. I've been recently I've been kind of trying to reimagine how my work can be structured. And one of the things that I've been driving towards is that that it's not just about commenting on the world that is or critiquing the world that it is, but actually manifesting the world that you want within the within the piece. So it's it's about the process is as much about the art as the art, which has always been there in the work, but but just being super conscious of it. And it just sounds like you're on a similar track is that is that right? No, that's exactly it. That's exactly the that the piece will make itself by by the ethos inside of which we make it and the people the people that are participating inside of that ethos and dreaming it up. So so yeah, the forms are actually like what is the form is probably the most exciting question to me because that's what we get to figure out. Yeah. Well, and in a space like like here, you're not I suppose there's some legacy of hampering in terms of there being walls in the in the theater, but it's not there's not a legacy of hampering in terms of what you can do in the space. It doesn't all have to be proscenium. It doesn't have to be at eight o'clock. It doesn't have to be eight times a week. It doesn't, you know, and so it frees you up to imagine whatever you want. I mean, yeah, I'm so sad that I never got to see any of any of your full scale. Like, I mean, you know, you also model that inside the space, right? Those things are possible, both because of Christian vision and also the collaboration of artists like you. And I just feel like, yeah, so it's exciting to me to think of all that has already lived inside of that space and already a part of its DNA and just to like go on that is exciting. Like what theater lets you do like a full like take yeah, take over both theaters and the hallways and the bathroom and you know, very few of them. Although they all want they all want it. They're all longing for it, but it's hard for a lot of them to break it. But yeah, but you said something earlier that was you start with rejecting. And I watched that a song of yours in the beginning that was on YouTube, filmed at Joe's Pub. And what I found so fascinating is like in the beginning and then the whole part like the beginning and that immediate it was just and then you and so a few things happened in that moment. One was like, Oh, in the beginning, okay, all right, we're in the traditional space. We're telling the story. And then you immediately broke it. And you said, no, we're recreating the rules. And and he said, Oh, they said, fuck the beginning. Okay, so it's that kind of that kind of engagement with popular culture and popular language. And then you immediately deep into like just dig into really profound writing and that not that language that is deemed foul isn't profound. But you know what I'm saying, like the more kind of less populist kind of writing. And and it was just it was thrilling, like all you had to do, you don't have to like spend time tearing apart anybody else's narrative, you just made your own. It was really, I was just so beautifully crafted. That's all I really wanted to say. Thank you so much. That's such a resonant comment and shout out to Troy Anthony, who composed that the music for it. But yeah, the writing like those were the first lines of the piece that I heard were in the beginning in the beginning, fuck the beginning. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, I'm gonna make our own beginning. Yeah, yeah. And so that the writing to I should shout out. So like what I did in that, in that really I think what I do one of the main things that I do as a writer is I'm a curator and I'm a DJ and I mash things up, you know, like that is, it feels like a part of my practice. And so like, of course, in the beginning, we have this, like this citation of like Western fairy tales, fuck the beginning, the rat voice in the, you know, the insertion. And then after that, I'm quoting the ifa oracle of sacred, of Yoruba sacred text. Amazing. I didn't know that. So there were no living things was a priest. There were no living things as the name of the priest in the beginning of the world, that which has suspended that which was suspended, but did not descend was the priest in the other world always just empty space with no substance with the priest of midair. Those are the three priests of the three different like realms of nothingness that existed before time before us at the at the moment of creation. And so like in that moment, I'm kind of braiding together, you know, these voices that I think always inform my work. And yeah, and then I go back to writing, whatever I'm writing. So yeah, yeah. Yeah, anyway, I don't know that moment. It was particularly special. I don't know. It just I love it. I love it when somebody frees me in two seconds. Sometimes it's nice to be pre-eaten over an entire show or whatever. But when someone frees me in two seconds, I'm like, oh, yes, thank you. It's so funny. I'm in this I'm in rewrites right now. I'm like, I don't even know if I should be talking about this in public. But it's like, anyway, this is the process. I'm in rewrites right now. And so it's weird that we're talking about this right now, because I was just considering making, as we say, making the audience work longer for the fuck the beginning. Because also what I'm saying with fuck the beginning is about conventions and rules and guarded stories. But it's also about like, fuck this world that we've been given. It's also that, right? And so it's like, it's impressive. When I have spirituality, spirituality and patriarchy. Exactly. Exactly. So like, when I've opened that up, like, then do we get to say fuck the beginning or is it that because time is a spiral already, it is already fucked, like, like that we are already in the cycle of in the beginning, fuck the beginning, churning from the very first moment. So I'm actually that you brought that up, you know, I don't believe really in too many accidents. So I'm like, why are we having a conversation right now? Oh, yeah. Well, hopefully it's just loud. It's good for me. But the other thing that, oh, yeah, well, then the other thing that I noticed about that moment is the craft of how many people are on the stage. And I know, I know it's a, that's about creating a choir, but that's an artistic choice. And so I just wanted to ask you about ensemble, how do you feel about ensemble and and seeing those women on that stage singing that song in the way that they're singing it with the multifaceted style of voices that they all have. Because it's not a monolith like a choir sometimes can be, you know, it's like, it's really, it's multifaceted and beautiful. And and so I'm, yeah, I'm just wondering, like, what, what's the desire to bring in lots of people to the party? Yeah, so for that, again, I'll just say that. So one of the resonant points that Anthony, the composer and I have is that we really see a choir everywhere, whether or not that happens in the premiere, because like it's very, it's a high budget thing to do to like demand a choir in addition to like the full theatrical production. But because we had a Joe's pub concert, it became the thing that was more than possible, right? Right, because it's one show and everybody can do it for you know, yeah. So like, that was such a gift, because we got to, you know, we got to see that live whether or not we'll get to see that live in, you know, the premiere and in the tour. But our hope is actually to as because the choir voice feels really important in terms of thinking through what it means to, to speak to a collective consciousness or try to call up a collective consciousness, which I think that the work is trying to do like we're really trying to be like, where are we right now? And it's really important to do that with, with multiple voices. So even in our, even in the core cast, like, there will already be like eight voices. Yeah, yeah. So like, you're making a big work. That's what you're making. But I mean, we would like for it to be like eight voices plus a choir. But so we have dreams of like teaming up with choirs that are local choirs and the different cities and like if they want join up with us in this experience, then that's something that we can offer something and then they can offer something. And so I do think, yeah, I do think it matters. Yeah, especially I've done that. You've done it with choirs. I've done it. I have, I have, I have toured a lot of places and worked with local choirs so we can sidebar a conversation about the logistics of that and the pressures of it, but also the joy of it too. Yeah. Thank you. And with your, your piece, it seems like the kind of thing in some ways that you'd want to spend more time with the communities with each place that you went though. Is that it? Yeah, we were right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So residencies everywhere you go is maybe a model. I think so. I think that is what we're looking for, even though it doesn't like necessarily go with the norm, because like we, it's almost like there's a whole, it almost feels like there's a whole kind of curriculum that's being, that's happening and that's being developed inside the creation of these works. And so, and I really think with everyone's work, like, there's so much dramaturgy. There's so much research. It's a movement. Come on. Like, this is why artists should be at the meeting, you know, like, like the artists, artists in social movements, like, you know, we need to be working together. And we are. And like, I just, I'm just saying more and more. So yeah, we're like a traveling band of like, you know, we're like the traveling band of like liberation theater. Yeah. Well, and you never know what, you never, I mean, the best part about it is you never know how it's going to expand you. You have, you have an idea of how it will expand you. But then once you actually get on the ground with the people in the various communities and spend time with them, it just, it's, it just opens up everything. It's, I feel that and my God, I just feel like we need Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, yeah. So what's your process right now? You're in, it sounds like you're in the dreaming phase, but you're also making things. So what's the, what's your, what do you feel like the process is going to be in terms of that they have to have an answer? Yeah. And I think there might be a little bit of a delay. So I think there might be some time when there's a delay. Yeah. Yeah. So sorry about that. But of twerk. What's happening right now? I'll just speak to what's happening right now. What's happening is that I am writing a bunch of music. I'm building relationships with different music makers and producers. And I'm also like, doing something that's really out of my comfort zone, which is that I am ordering technology to my own house, so that I can play with it by myself without any intermediary people that are good at it. So it feels really like I'm That's scary. It's so scary. I am a technophobe like I was one of the last people to have Gmail. I was one of the last people to have Facebook. You know, I just got an Instagram page like last month. So I just really, really, I'm scared. And also I'm really excited because I can like feel the things that I want to do. And I think that not having to explain in words what I want to hear or what I want to do or what I want it to be like, but to actually kind of conjure directly with the equipment is going to be like, like I just, I mean, it might be a grand failure, but if it works, it's going to change the whole piece because I'm going to have this other language that I can use. So that's one of the things like really That's the best part of being a theater artist is you get to learn. Your job never, you never stop playing. If you're interested in something, you make a show about it. So I'm excited about that. So that's part of the process right now. I mean, obviously with COVID, we haven't really been able to be in the room together since February, but it ended up being fine because I have this other premiere coming up for Chronicle X, which has had to be totally reimagined for as an outdoor piece. And so it's allowing the timeline for pre-sist to be as slow as it wants to be. So now it's about music. It's about building relationships with myself and with producers. And then just kind of like having conversations with potential collaborators and dreaming together. So I've been kind of like building the team. And once we have the team, I'd like to do a COVID safe retreat, whether it has to be virtual or ideally, I'd like to do it in person so that we can really do some ritual practice some ritual together and to really like tune in to some other frequencies and start to dream it up. Another idea I'm having is that I'd like to do a reading group with the performers of all the things that I'm reading so that we can just start to whatever it is so that we can start to water the thing and start to build together. But I have a lot of really fun devising ideas. Like, I want the priestesses to have their own areas and come up with their own rituals and their own songs. And like this is like you are the priestess of Octopi. Like you are gonna tell us everything we need to know about Octopi and like channel that energy, you know, and bring it to earth. So you know, whatever that thing, I'm really, really excited to retreat with people and just kind of like be in the room and be in process and activate like have everyone else's creativity and imaginaries be present because I feel like I've already, I feel like I'm pretty far in the container of it to like let people dream inside of it and oh I should also say part of the process is you're like I was not asking that big of a question. I will say the last thing about part of the process. No, no, no, I actually was. Okay, okay, okay. Good. I'm long-winded. The other part of the process is Tuche. My other collaborator, she is, she does light set and installation. She's like one stop shop for brilliant magic spaces. And so one of the other things that we're doing is like we're just doing monthly downloads of like all of the ways the piece can look so that she can start to just sketch and we can start to be able to show folks like it's like this and it feels like this and like what would you do inside of a room that looked like this, you know? That's exciting. That question, what would you do inside of a room that looked like this is not something that feels like every theater show asks that question. I guess is that a devised approach or is that how you would approach all your work or do you only make devised work? I'm forgiving for not knowing. No, no, it's fine and I make all of the kinds. So yeah, like I have plays that are straight plays. I've been doing a lot less of that recently but I have a bunch of ideas for other ones. We'll see if I ever get to them. I know. The straight play thing is interesting that quote unquote straight play is again I keep saying okay I'm never writing one of those again. I'm on a sneaks off. Yeah I mean it's like yeah again creativity whatever I said before about genre you know. Creativity hates genre. So yeah I feel that that's there too and but more recently I have been devising over the past maybe five years or so I've been devising more than I've been writing straight plays. No plays are straight. Yeah and how do you find your people? Like that's always a question I have. I mean I found my people over like two decades but like how do you find your people if you don't already know them for a piece like this? Because it's not like you can go to a casting director. A casting director is not going to find the people that you want for this piece. Like I don't believe but prove me wrong casting directors. Right I know hello casting directors. Actually I know a couple. Shout out to y'all. You know who you are but I think really it has for now it has come down to like building and making creative community in this city in the past yeah like five years or so and really creative community kind of like activists and social justice liberation folk community and the for all of the many of us that are working at that intersection and becoming someone that people can trust to an extent and want to work with and have been collaborating with or like going to shows and meeting people who are working on shows of the people whose work you like like I mean all of that stuff like I just feel like I've been participating inside of this world for not as long as some people but like long enough to start to find who my folks are inside of it but it's also so random like my co-director for Chronicle X, May Ann, Tio, we met when I did a residency up at Hampshire where she was a professor. I mean where they were a professor and so we just like literally clicked there and then I needed to get back to the city and they were like I'm driving back to the city and we talked for three hours and we fell in like art love and we were like oh my god we're gonna work together on everything you know so right yeah it's like that too so it's muses in a lot of ways it's just you I mean I look at the the woman that you had on the stage it was like oh all of these women are muses for her like you didn't like cast anyone you're like yeah you weren't like trying to fit a person into a box you were like looking for your muses and then you collected them and put them on stage is that fair I mean yeah if you look at the performers they're just like they're yeah they are all muses that's a perfect word for them they're all stunning and inspiring and that's why I'm like I can't wait to get in the room with folks for precepts work because I already like just from watching people's energies move with each other and interact it's just like oh you're already like y'all are already making the peace like there's which is what I love about devising like they are not walking into something that doesn't um where they are a non-factor they are walking into something where they matter so much you know um can we uh can we see something I know you have an example is that yeah yeah set it up tell us give us all the caveats okay also a question are we so when we when when the public receives this it's audio only yeah okay uh you can share your screen if you want to um and you can do it uh I don't know if you're a technophobe so you don't know and I don't know either maybe at this point our invisible guests Kristen Martin can come on and help us with sharing the screen oh I can share it I can share it I know how to share it yeah because I had to teach on zoom all semester oh great amazing like you know how to share the screen but I am wondering so I guess yeah so it is visual so you answered my question it's visual it can be visual and audio at the same time but okay but I you have to share your audio too but I don't yeah what I prepared was thinking that it was going to be audio so um but I'll still share the screen so we don't have to just like watch us listening um so okay this setup this setup is um as it's fascinating of a performance piece as that would be um I will this is from Chronicle X this is the first workshop that we did at Jack in a couple of years ago a couple of years ago and um this is composed by written by me and can see by me composed by Troy Anthony co-directed by me and to and this is a scene where Chronicle X is um the first of the Darko Chronicles the Darko Chronicles um are a mashup of Yoruba and other African diaspora sacred stories with contemporary stories of Black women who have experienced state violence and it's really asking the question about what can we know differently when we experience these together um and so in this particular uh Chronicle Chronicle X it's the story of Diamond Reynolds and Philando Castile who was murdered in 2016 uh in St. Paul Minnesota um while his fiance Diamond Reynolds was in the passenger seat and um so uh and it's merged with a Yoruba creation story um it's the story of knowledge wisdom and understanding who are these deities that get trapped inside of the snail shell the snail shell is actually the creator's belly and they end up exploding into the Big Bang and so Chronicle X braids these two together in this particular moment um in this particular moment after they've been stuck inside the snail shell one of them named Wisdom Ogbon in Yoruba starts wandering so that's the setup and uh I have just asked the audience to close their eyes and experience it as a soundscape so whatever you're gonna see is not really what the intention is but so we can close our eyes and experience this as a soundscape if we want an experience that is a soundscape exactly okay I'm gonna share now great all right okay can you see I can and yes great the walls are sticky and round round and round and round round and round and round a thousand and one round without warning a blustering wind it is winter Wisdom moves against the winds of a blizzard with great struggle calling her own name Ogbon she sees a shadow figure in her periphery his face is made of light he holds his arms outstretched palms open a golden gun is inside his open palms it's not loaded he says Wisdom keeps walking I have a pillow he says Wisdom pushes past the man a giant gold window appears the shadow man with the face of light is behind the window Wisdom falls out like a rag doll all of a sudden she is surrounded by fish which swims frenetically around her she awakens as someone else wisdom jolts out of the trance and runs back through the dark wet rounds to tell knowledge and understanding that she had seen or known or felt or held or heard something a something of possibility and a something of dread a something that knew why they were here and where they were going and that they must return all together was winter that was gorgeous thank you wow um the she she's making the siren sound with her with her mouth and the screeching comes from the humans and so they're acting like folio artists in a way but vocally and uh it's so every time I hear a siren in a play I just I it feels oppressive and this instead felt like an invitation um just to what you were talking about and there's this I hate to say this word again trek trek into a contemplation I it's very it's really moving thank you I wish I could have seen the whole thing are you is so this is not this is not the piece you're working on now this is a piece that you did at jack uh that and that was the full production no so this um this is chronicle x which will premiere uh fingers crossed in june at the shed this was we did like a concert version um it was the first time that Troy and I had and may an had worked all together um and so we wanted to workshop a concert installation to just kind of yeah everything um and it ended up feeling a lot fuller than like it ended up being that we're like oh we can do the concert version of this piece um and you could do that without yeah yeah but you're moving forward with staging and but we're moving for yeah there's a full a full scale um installation that will be that this will live inside of that to change the same person is designing um for an indoor outdoor hybrid piece also with a I also showed this because it's going to have AR and one of the um one of the spaces that we're thinking about AR is inside of these portals winter is the first portal but there are these portals that happen when the goddess is kind of like travel inside the snail shell and they get kind of swept up in the creators dreams and these other worlds and so um yeah so this is that was why I was um excited about showing that and also it's um you know how like in a dream like you get information from all of these places like your day the last thing you watched on tv like you know whatever all the things like history all of our sources and then maybe numinous unknown sources as well so it feels like that's what if I have a form then then that's probably what the form is um and so like for this piece the dream tendrils are like that that creation story and like all the documentary evidence so you can hear them saying numbers 16 9 like these are all numbers from the case like the case number the day that he died the day he was born the number of shots like those are all the numbers that they're saying to create this kind of like sonic tapestry and inside of the process to um that was kind of a really interesting process was like going over and over and over again diamond reynolds's transcripts both of her facebook live uh where she posted just after right right when he was shot and then also of her investigation transcripts and so a lot of the lines also kind of are a part of the thread of the dream is also so that final line that the actor says we are innocent like that came from her transcripts and so it's like yet another like braid that's floating around inside of layering layering layering yeah yeah and so talk to me about I'm sorry to ask you about your youth and stuff but I'm curious how how you how you come to this kind of making um because it's not like you know you're at a high school and they're like you could make this kind of work I don't know maybe they were at your school but like my john wasn't like that and I don't imagine stamper where you went was the university was like that as well although maybe so how do how do you at what point do you say to yourself ah this the tools that I've been given aren't aren't aren't the direction for me I want this such a juicy question yeah I know we don't have much time but maybe we'll end it with this one yeah yeah um I think that well my first response to your question was like I wish that like this is the way of make like I think it has been a process of like unpeeling versus peeling like I I am making in the way finally that feels like I have the most agency and let it is coming the most organically to me to and through me um and I think that it has just taken more confidence and audacity and surrender to spirit than I had before to just allow to like to give in to that as opposed to like make it the way that I'm supposed to make it and the reason that I have that level of confidence and audacity and surrender to spirit I think too is by being inside rooms where that mattered um I was lucky enough to be inside the rooms of Sharon Bridgeforth um and performing uh with her uh that's what I wanted to ask you about Sharon talk to me oh yeah I we can't let it go with just this question my favorite humans on the planet yes Sharon how's that to Sharon Bridgeforth allowed me into her spaces where I basically just like followed her around and interviewing her for my dissertation until finally she invited me to be in something because I just wanted to be in those rooms because I could feel that something was happening there that was unknown and being discovered every single moment and that whole process of being inside of a theatrical jazz room um and being asked to show up as one's full self um has has profoundly affected how I am inside of rooms um another mentor that matters so much to me is Shari Maraga and though she writes really play plays there is never a space where like she's always pushing against the boundaries of where ceremony inserts itself and then things don't go as we think they will and so and then in terms of like being inspired like people like Adrienne Kennedy like I just I knew that the first play I didn't know anything about theater other than like musicals and when I found her work in grad school right um she was the first play that I ever directed was Funny House of a Negro and I was like yes this this is this is this is why I'm here so it was really like being able to find seeds and and even still like I was always told I was doing too much like like all of my critique sessions like all of my feedback is always like you're doing too much why is why does it have to be projection too that's so interesting yeah so anyway I think that I think that's that's where I find it it's the layering the layering that makes it we we got a delay so but yeah it's the layering that is just so moving to me I I don't know it's the it's the human voice telling that the story of the siren is what makes you feel like your heart is gonna break you know and and you don't get that without without the layering of um if all she was able to say was dialogue or seeing notes that were written for and then you don't get it you know that's all that's what I mean to say no totally I know we were like we were excitedly overlapping each other for a couple minutes but I agree like that's it's really that I mean it's we got to study the transcripts together and so then we got to say what are all the sounds that feel like we need to hear and also how can we hear and like represent these sounds in a way in such a way that we're not taking part in trauma porn that we're not re traumatizing that we are actually holding space with our voices for these bodies for these stories that are us that we care about so much and that we want to honor and uplift and so I think it does become about reinventing forms and layering and doing the things that feel kind of intuitive and impulsive and making a road in the way that wisdom is doing in winter like really kind of searching through the snail shell and trying to find form um that is required of us if we're going to overturn any of these ways of being that we've inherited that are so harmful so yeah yeah I just said my dramaturge Morgan jenice we're talking and I said you know onslaught almost always wins and what I meant by that is mosaic like like if you look at one tile it's pretty but if you look at a whole wall of tiles I don't know I'm always like more please because within more there is simplicity like you know I agree I think that's also like a very like clear aesthetic to you know we think about it is yeah yeah that's there we like we like the we like the community on we like the parade on the stage yes we like it yeah thank you so much for talking and just to close it out is there anything that you feel like you need from the larger community from the howl round community who people who are listening right now anything that might help you finish your project or or you know play in your project rather uh yeah well I'll say like one shameless plug right now yeah I have the invitation which is that over the summer during really what felt like the height of COVID in New York City I was and also at the height of kind of like the racial justice explosion that our country experienced I was sitting very kind of like I was trying to figure out who I was and having an identity crisis and trying to figure out what my role was and one of the things that happened for my family in 2020 is that in a basement of my great aunt we found a memoir written by my great-grandmother um and it's uh it's pretty astounding and her name is Jean Moy nobody even knew that she was a writer so to find this like manuscript with her whole life story was just like I don't know it broke us all into pieces and also I have someone who I came from that did what I do you know and that meant everything to me and I was I am really really um livid that we didn't know and I know why we didn't know because she was a black woman writing in like the 1920s and 30s um about her life and you know we know all of the reasons why that never saw the light of day you know how it was so brilliant and so uh my kind of call to action became starting this fund in her name called the Jean Moy dark fund for black women queer and GNC artists and um it is going to be um a residency space a performance incubator um and uh like a brick and mortar uh location that we are now raising money for and um we're about yeah we officially started in September so we're really really young and um I just want to encourage folks to just like get on board it feels really urgent that we protect black women's lives and imaginations um and you know I think that this is a project that is for us by us and it's something that I would love the larger theater communities support on it's a I feel like I've kind of given my life over to the theater and this is what I'm asking um so I I will say that if you right now we are in process of like getting our own page up right now it's just attached to my own artist page um so www.neowitherspoon.com or also I'm an artist in residence at here as well as BAX and at BAX they also host um a page for the Jean Moy dark fund here and BAX have been really generous um supporters in terms of admin labor and really getting us uh off the ground so there's a paypal link uh at the BAX page and you can also follow me on Nia Soli, N-I-A-S-O-L-I no more technophobe I have an Instagram page I post about it and I post selfies and things um so yeah definitely please get at me and support the fund if you can yeah definitely thank you so much it was really nice talking to you thank you I really look forward to more sidebars this was so lovely yeah yeah yeah yeah