 They behave your panel. Sorry, man. It just it was. Sorry. I just I don't know what's going on here. That's the problem. Let me try. I can't hear it. How is that? Do you hear it now? Is it better? No. Yep. It's going. It's working. Yep. It's fine now. Good. Good. Good. Okay. I did the same thing. I went into low. Don't know. I'll really do that easy enough. Yeah. You can hear me. Well, let's let's all do it. So I had to go in and grab that and do it. It'd be excuse me. My voice is whacked from talking this morning. All right. I'm Scott Rouse. I'm a body language expert and analyst. I train law enforcement in the military and interrogation and body language. And I created with Greg Hartley Body Language Tactics.com the number one body language course online. Mark. I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language. I help people all over the world to stand out, win trust and gain credibility every time they speak, including some of the leaders of the G7. Chase. I'm Chase Hughes. I'm a bestselling author in behavioral profiling, influence and persuasion. The 20 years in the U.S. military. Now I train the government and the public and persuasion influence and behavior profiling. And I'm the author of this book right here. That's about to become a TV series. Greg. Greg Hartley, former Army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance to interrogation instructor. I've written a bunch of books on body language and behavior and put this number one course together with Scott Body Language Tactics.com. And I spend most of my time on Wall Street and in corporate America. Today we're going to talk about Kevin Williams, who's the guest on the vice presidential debate this week. So as we go through this, we're just going to tell you what body language we're seeing. Remember, we go right down the middle. We're not on one side of the other. If you're on the left, you're going to say, ah, these guys are on the right. And if you're on the right, you can say, ah, these guys are on the left. We're not. We're just telling you what we see. We don't take sides on this. We're Switzerland when it comes to doing this. All right. We're just telling you the body language we see. All right. So let's take a look at the first video. Bias against minorities is a great insult to the men and women who serve in law enforcement. And I want everyone to know who puts on the uniform of law enforcement every day. President Trump and I stand with you. And it is remarkable that when Senator Tim Scott tried to pass a police reform bill, brought together a group of Republicans and Democrats, Senator Harris, you got up and walked out of the room. And then you filibustered Senator Tim Scott. All right, Greg, you want to go first? Sure. So Williams comes in. He's got the best entrance of everybody in the room. Hands down, open movement, smooth cadence, very fluid. No barriers, nothing crossing. No crossing any of his limbs. Makes eye contact with everybody in the room and then practically floats in. Perfect entrance. Mark, you want to go next? Yeah. So I got to concur with that because speed and time is part of nonverbal and Williams comes in at a tenth of a second. That's only three three frames and he's right in the shot right in there and that's extraordinary speed. Now, I'm not quite sure what that means as a whole, but certainly Williams. It's an imperative for him to be there right now. So extraordinary, extraordinary entrance on that chase. What do you got? Movement and direction is extremely important and he comes in at a way that he wants the camera to know. He's facing to the right. He continues to point to the right regardless of the distractions of Vice President Pence and he continues to to maintain that right direction in a little in a way that shows no stress in the legs or the arms during the entire first clip that we're seeing here. And that's all I've got. Scott, what do you have? All right, here's what I got. Well, when Williams lands immediately, we see interior spherical contract, which lets us know it denotes that he's been waiting for his entrance. When he comes in, he starts to relax a little bit. We see the contract and we seem relaxed. This indicates he's been looking for the right spot, not just coming in. I don't know where we're coming in for the right spot and that's hard to do in a situation like this. And I'm under the impression this isn't just a haphazard situation. I think this was planned. I think this was this was planned because his his entrance and his landing are perfect. It's quick right on the money that doesn't take long at all. So that's that's pretty much what I got at that point. Bias against minorities is a great insult to the men and women who serve in law enforcement. And I want everyone to know who puts on the uniform of law enforcement every day and President Trump and I stand with you and it is remarkable that that when Senator Tim Scott tried to pass a police reform bill brought together a group of Republicans and Democrats. Senator Harris, you got up and walked out of the room and then you filibustered Senator Tim Scott. So be good. Yeah. Yeah. Student excellent. You got up and walked out of the room and then you filibustered Senator Tim Scott's bill on the Senate floor that would have provided new accountability, new resources, but we don't have to choose between supporting law enforcement, proving public safety and supporting our African American neighbors and all of our minorities under President Trump's leadership. We'll always stand with law enforcement and we'll do what we've done for us. They want to improve the lives of African Americans. Thank you. But I'm employment record investments in education and fight for school choice for all of our. Thank you. I'd like to respond. Okay. Chase, what do you got? Right off the bat. What we're seeing here is contempt. We see at the very beginning of the clip. We just saw he's facing to the right holding his position, lots of relaxation as soon as Vice President Pence starts talking about the campaign. Williams makes an about face and literally faces his body the other direction. He's making solid multi eye contact with Kamala Harris and we're seeing this behavior continue with this stoic representation of stillness and it reminds me of a Roman statue as Mark will probably say sometime. I'll let you lead with that. Mark. Yeah. Yeah. Well, move to the bestica. I mean, obviously to that point. Look, I want to pick up on what Scott was saying because he was saying, okay, is this planned? Well, let's look at the data behind this. 2010 Williams is seen with Obama when he was talking about the Affordable Care Act 2016. Williams comes in Hillary when Hillary Clinton is in the so Louis debate with Trump and and Williams shows up at Trump rallies. So so Williams is always there in the scene. It's a usual thing for him and therefore to your point, Chase, is he moving left or right? Which ways is he facing? Williams is totally bipartisan on this. Williams will come in, you know, regardless of the politician that's there. This is not this is not just about the vice president. This is about most every politician that's that's out there. I would I would say now I'll leave it at that. And I just will say that even if he isn't bipartisan, he's trying to maintain the image to the public that there's bipartisanship there. I'm sure just like all of us, we have our beliefs. We try to maintain bipartisanship and I think he's trying to make a valiant effort there and showing that. Yeah, that's okay. That's the only part. I'm not going to agree with the chase. When we look at it, we see his maxillator palps. When we see that light up, that tells me we're seeing contempt there toward Kamala. That's what that's what I'm seeing. I could I could be wrong. That's what I'm seeing. Greg, are you seeing like that? Well, Chase, I disagree with you about how calm he is. We usually all of us agree. This is a good one because I'm starting to see some symptoms of fight or flight and I see rigid energy going to the limbs. I see a couple of dips in preparation. I the only thing I wish I had is a better camera angle to see those pupils. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Okay, Greg, you want to add anything to that? Yeah, no, I agree. I think he's showing less bias. You know, everybody's got their bias. We constantly are told but he's showing less bias and the others makes eye contact well with both of them. And at this point, he just looks like he's a little stressed and firefly starting to kick in. All right. All right. Here's what I'm seeing the maxillary palps. Again, that's percing. So that suggests it denotes. He disagrees with what Kamala is saying. And at the same time, we see it burst to the right a little bit, which indicates and it denotes that he that he sees a different outcome as to what she said for the way that Pence is coming back at her. It's almost an attack. They sang it off for dear life because Pence's heads going back and forth. But at the same time, you see Pence pause. And then when he pauses, it's almost like he's being, he's repeating what he's hearing over and over and over. That's like he's the Williams is communicating with him, giving him telling him what to say. There was an argument about that, like Mark was saying earlier with Obama. That's what was going on. I don't know. But so we saw that earlier. Then again, he's using his labellum and I think Chase, you'll have to tell me this, the pseudo trait guy. I think that's the way you say it. No, he's making that motion. The thing and when he puts stuff on his head, that's when he's that's when he's getting ready to poop. Hey, Scott, I'm not sure that that's exactly what he's doing, but he's surely wanting to get out of there. All that fight or flight, seeing him start to flex his back, all of those pieces. He's ready to break your pants. You're right. Okay. Okay. So that's what I'm seeing there. I've got a small problem with the Scudlam, but I'm not sure what that is. Something's going on there, but I'm not, I'm not sure what's going on there. That's again, why I think he's communicating with Pence. You got up and walked out of the room and then you filibustered Senator Tim Scott's bill on the Senate floor that would have provided new accountability, new repeat resources, but we don't have to choose between supporting law enforcement, proving public safety and supporting our African American neighbors and all of our minorities under President Trump's leadership. Thank you, Vice President. We always stand with law enforcement and we'll do what we've done. Vice President Pence, thank you. Your time is up. The lives of African Americans. Thank you, Vice President. Employment, record investments in education. Your time is up. We'll fight for school choice for all of our minorities. Thank you, Vice President. I'd like to respond. Okay. We good? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everything from child sexual assault to homicide. I'm the only one on this stage was prosecuted the big banks for taking advantage of America's homeowners. I'm the only one on this stage who prosecuted for profit colleges for taking advantage of our veterans. And the reality of this is that we are talking about an election in 27 days. All right. I'll go first on this one. I don't want to be a conspiracy person on this because it sounds like this the whole I'm going down. But I think I think he's communicating with Pence there. And another thing when you see what you're seeing here is boredom. He's bored out of his mind. It's not that he isn't. He's not listening. He's just bored. And I think Pence as well might be a little bored because the way his head is shaking. I think he's communicating that to Pence as well. And so he's saying I'm bored out of my mind. I'm bored. I must go and Pence is agreeing with him. That's what he's saying. He's not listening to Kamala. He's listening to Harris. He's listening to Williams as we go through this. Again, we see the the Prescutum that thing expands that goes down a little bit. That's an adapter. I think he's bored out of his skull doing this. I think he and the look he's given her is with all eyes on her is is contempt again. So I agree with Greg on that. We're seeing a lot of contempt again as he's just and he's just bored out of the skull. Mark, where do you got? Yeah, so, you know, look, I'm going to be honest with you. Obviously, I haven't I haven't trained Williams here. But if I were, if I were my client, obviously, I go on all the time about symmetrical gestures and and most of the time it will be true. You've got to go for cemetery. You've got to, you know, get straight down that lens. In the case of Williams, I think what's really interesting is he's he's moving the head, the forex, the abdomen into a blading position. I know, you know, it chases a master around this in terms of how that blading can often be, you know, violent action or or or, you know, preempt something violent. I think in this case, he's just asserting, you know, authority and just taking up more space because, you know, somebody of Williams's size, if if if straight down the camera and symmetrical, it's so hard to actually just see them, you know, they're almost invisible. And so I think he just does the right thing, but it's against most of the training that I would ever give. And so, you know, all credit to Williams there. Just phenomenal job and great idea to to to go for there. Chase, what do you got? I I agree with Mark and I'm not I'm not totally sure that he's communicating with with Pence. I'm not buying the whole thing, but I'm not saying it's not possible though, Scott. And what is really what's what's really true here and we can go back to the great behavioral experts and what we're seeing is as his head is coming down and Kamala is talking about. There's an election 27 days away. That's very important. We see his chest move up. We see his posture increase and we see him maintain focused eye contact on Kamala and he's showing that sense of bipartisanship there. He's he's on the right, but he land. He's on the left side of Vice President Pence looking towards Kamala Harris. So we see a lot of that that gross motor movement behavior there. We saw a little bit of pupil dilation there and that was mostly in response to her comment about how important the election was and it wasn't in response to a specific political comment, which I thought was interesting. Well, what I noticed is the minute she talked about sexual assault and homicide, his eyes locked really great eye contact with her and for you, Mark, I call that ruffling your plumage. You could see him ruffle his plumage to make himself bigger and turn to an oblique so you could he can make a presence to her. I'm not sure what the rub is between the two of them, but he's got riveted eye contact and no eye contact whatsoever. If you look with Pence, you notice, however, he's relaxed for the first time here. You notice that his legs are relaxed up across his back and his thorax is all relaxed. His eyes are looking forward. You may even notice that that the hands or the front limbs are under the chin braced something we'll see from her in a few minutes as she's trying to get someone to talk more. So I think here he nailed it. He's got the best posture of anybody on the stage at the moment. He's got and I know I was talking about the thorax and so I agree with what Mark is saying about being everything is symmetrical, especially with his wings when he starts that was going back and forth. That's another thing that tells me he's a little bit bored. You know, usually that they'll start like this. No, where are you going to say, Greg? Yeah, and those wings down those wings relaxed is a good sign. They go down. That's fight or flight when they rise. He's relaxed. Yeah, he's relaxed. But again, I think it's because it's bored. He's bored out of his skull at this point. So that's where I see him, but it's still symmetrical when they're doing this as a good call mark. We see the colipters. We look at the colipters that shade. They're showing signs of agreement. So at the same time, I agree with Chase. We're looking at we're seeing a little bit of by bipartisan behavior, but I think he agrees with Harris on this part because when Williams is showing disagreement again, he'll just he'll dead. I am real, you know, dead. I am and you can feel it. I think the whole room felt it at that point at that point. And again, at the end there though, we see him starting to tighten up. We see all those legs. We see every leg tighten up and get a better grip there. And again, we're seeing a little bit of stress in the abdomen. So I think we know what's going to happen right into that. Everything from child sexual assault to homicide. I'm the only one on this stage was prosecuted the big banks for taking advantage of America's homeowners. I'm the only one on this stage who prosecuted for profit colleges for taking advantage of our veterans. And the reality of this is that we are talking about an election in 27 days. Okay, we're good. Yeah, good. And not true. It wasn't like he didn't have a chance. He didn't do it. And then he doubled down. And then he said when pressed. Stand back. Stand by. And this is a part of a pattern of Donald Trump's. Okay, Chase, what do you got? Well, if there's one thing we do know for sure, it's that William's feet are 10 million times more sensitive than ours to sugars. He can detect them. And I'm not saying do you think that's product in his hair? You think? Well, I mean, what I'm saying is you think that's what is drawing him to it. I'm not going to say that. I won't I won't say that on record, but I will say he's made a decision to stay. He's made a decision to choose a certain spot. Maybe I'm all I'm all I'm offering is maybe he's not as he's not just on the right. Everyone's thinking he's on the right. He has more sensors than we do. He sees things differently than we do. Williams has a lot more ways to view things than we do. And one thing we really notice there is a slight angulation a little bit away from Kamala Harris, more towards the moderator of the event. So the debate moderator is taking some of William's attention away from Kamala Harris. I'll just leave it at that. Scott, what do you got? Okay. Well, I'll agree with you on that, but I think maybe we're talking about sugars. Maybe the product in his hair or the hair spray, like because I think Mark at one point, it was talking about I can't remember what spray it was, but it was but he was using a hair spray and Mark's the hair. What was the hair spray you were telling us about? No, what I would suggest is what we're dealing with there, like in the 80s, I would put sugar and lemon juice in my hair because I wanted it to look like I was the artist from a band called The Cult and I'm wondering whether Pence may have gone that same way. Just using sugar and lemon juice because it does help lighten the hair as well and it gives a really firm kind of hold to it, but it's a very 80s kind of thing. But that's when Pence was doing talk radio, probably 80s 90s kind of thing. So you know, it's a possibility. Okay, that's cool. That's totally cool. Now, again, I want to talk about the thorax because we're looking at the mesoplurin at this point and this is where we see again, even in the mesoplurin, we're seeing contempt. Now, whether it's contempt for the situation he's in or again toward Kamala, I don't know toward Harris, I don't know, but Williams and his baseline always shows contempt when he's in these different spots and that's where he's showing it. When here is the mesoplurin. So I think at this point, his wings have slowed down just a little bit. So I think to Greg's point, I think he's getting ready to get back into fight or flight because she's being a little bit aggressive at this point from what she's saying the way she's coming on. So I think he feels that and he knows that and it's about time for him to get out there. Most of the time he's, what's his average amount of stay in there? Greg, do you remember is he like usually a minute? Just a couple of minutes. Yeah, a couple of minutes and he's gone when he was with Obama and with Hillary. Yeah. Yeah. So I think at this point, this is when he's getting ready to do. I think this one starts going through his mind and then again, the mesoplurin, that's where we're seeing that the contempt happen. And I'm not saying he's, he's mad. He's going to leave. He's going to be a big baby about everything. But I think that's what we're seeing. Combine with the boredom and his contempt and what's going on and maybe it's, he's got too much like a nutrient factor from the, maybe he's had enough. You know, maybe he came and got what he needed while he was there, you know, because then again, we, yeah, toward the end, we see that level in the sort of a trait guy where he starts to stuff with those trying to, he puts that on there and then he eats whatever's as it decays and it helps break that down and he eats that. And just for our viewers, you've got to keep in mind that Williams can travel 300 times the length of his body in a second. He's an extraordinary individual and he possesses a talent that not many of us do. So we have to understand that with that kind of talent, you've, you have a different mindset about how you approach and the behaviors are going to be slightly different. So we need to look at that baseline. As Greg always says, Greg started to interrupt. No, no, that's okay. And perfect. Scott, I'm glad to see you put in the neurobiology back, back into this thing cause people are asking for it. And I would say, I see some prefight or flight starting here. And yet, first of all, you see him turn around and you see, as you said before, he's percing his lips and you see that disapproval when he's looking at Kamala and she's talking and then he spins around and he turns his body to an oblique. Again, does almost looks like he's doing a couple of push-ups as he extends limbs and locks them, drops his wings down. You see the pupils, all those pupils dilate and then he starts to look around the room and here's where he makes a mistake. The rest of the time he's held the stage and here he just takes off leaves without any kind of, any kind of exit. It just, he blows it. That's all I got. I think he makes a mistake. Mark, what do you got? And I think, well, let me just add to that because I think we see his, his wings flap rate increasing, you know, this relaxed at first and we see that increasing and then it starts decreasing. Like you said, they go down and then that's when he's getting ready to bolt. Yeah, I think you can see it building. I mean, if I were coaching anyone, you know, I've coached guys in business and I've also coached interrogators and all that in my life and I always say, don't show anything until it's too late and then, you know, they can't figure out where your hands are or whatever it is. Mark, ours are very different in our approach. Mine is about not bleeding that flight or flight. That's always what I care about because when you're negotiating with someone and they start to show their hand, you've got them and he starts to show his hands here. You can see, you can see his, all those limbs are getting locked. His wings start to flex and he's out. He blows it. Mark, what do you got? To that point, Greg. I mean, I think, look, yeah, we do see the Tarsus going there, but to Scott, to, you know, something Scott says, you know, it's right on the money. Okay. So the Tarsus is moving in rhythm with, with, with what Williams is trying to get across. I think quite honestly, it's easy to criticize him, but quite frankly, he's, he's, he's been around since the Cenozoic era. So he's got a lot of years on him, literally almost 66 million years on him. So, you know, been around a while. We see him show up in, in the Flemish masters as, as, you know, a symbol of mortality. And I think that's why he shows up at these kind of points, just to remind us, just to kind of say, here I am, here I am again. And, and you know, don't take anything for granted in this. It could all be over soon. So, you know, think about this, think about this and think about this kind of thing carefully. I think that's what he's, he's, I think that's what he's always been there for. And I think that's why he shows up here. He kind of says, think about this. This is not an ordinary day. I don't know whether you guys agree, but that's where I'm coming from. Mark, one thing that does for me is that reminds me that I do have a bias because our tastes are very different. I have to pay attention to that. Yeah. And so I agree with you, Mark, because the plagues, the plague applies. We have a plague going on now. You know, we have a, it's huge. And so that, maybe that's a reminder of there's, there's, maybe there's more to come. Maybe he's saying, Hey, look, here's what's up. And that's why he keeps showing up at these, in these specific places. I mean, God, I wouldn't want to create a conspiracy around this. I mean, I think, you know, he's not, he's not trying to transmit anything particularly or move anything from person to person. I don't think that's what he's up to right now. But, but he, but he always shows up as some kind of symbol around a reminder of that kind of thing. So, you know, I, you know, that's, that's, you know, that's what all I got. Talented guy. Yep. Talented guy. No, no, no. He's got it. Oh, great. I just think he had a great entrance and then couldn't have done a better exit. That's it. Yeah, exactly. Great. Why don't we throw it around the room real quick and everybody in 30 seconds or less, wrap up what they think about what we saw. Greg, why don't you go first? Well, you know, I think he had probably watched the presidential election was, it was an, I'm sorry, the presidential debate and was probably expecting something more like that, more to his taste. So, we only stuck around for a couple of minutes when all of that didn't happen and all of, you know, what he was expecting and then just went away as quickly as he came in. Chase, what do you got? So, we saw a lot of contempt, but we saw it for both sides, which is unusual, especially for Williams. But we saw him here maintaining a semi what looked to me like an unbiased thing, but he still voiced his opinions non-verbally with the facial expressions with the bodily expressions, but still he's still willing to criticize both sides, which I think is healthy and rational. Mark. Yeah. So look, I love to see Williams because and I love to see him in this context because it's great when he shows up at this kind of event. Most of the time you're just seeing Williams in the, in the window, you know, just on the windowsill, just kind of hanging out there and that can be disappointing. But when he shows up at this kind of event, I think it means something. So, so I was, you know, whatever you want to say about, was it a good exit? I'm always just happy to see him outside of the usual context of on a windowsill, you know, and by the bins. I'm going to go, I'm going to wrap up and say, and in my Thursdays, I'm going to say, I think he's community. I think it was there to communicate with Pence. I think at some point there, he was telling him something because you're seeing that look on his face and Greg can attest to that when you see that look with that drop jaw and you're listening and you start talking, you're sort of repeating what you're hearing. And I think that's what's going on. I think he's some no mean to start a conspiracy there again. But what I'm saying is, I think he's communicating with him. Maybe that's why he's there. I don't know. So, all right, but good. Yep. I think so. That was great. Yes. Thank you. Excellent. See you next time. Yeah. All right, Greg, you want to go first? Sure. So Kevin has or Williams has the best entrance of everybody hands down. Comes in with open movement, smooth fluid cadence, no bear. Okay. I'm sorry. I apologize. It's about a fault. Greg, you want to go first? Sure. So Williams has the best entrance hands down of all the people on the stage. Open movement, fluid, smooth cadence, no barriers, makes eye contact with everyone in the room and practically floats in. I'm sorry. Okay. I apologize. You got my fault. I can't make that contact. We're seeing the labium and that the pseudo trach trachy. I think that's the way you say it. Chase or correct me if I'm wrong in the libellum where he's going. Sorry. Okay. How do you guys just say it? I gotta just say it. Right. Sure. I said it when he starts that thing was like that he's good. Damn it. I'm so sorry fellas is a pence drops his head down and starts talking like he's being told something. I think somehow he's communicating. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. It's purse. So that's that's indicating that he disagrees with what comma saying because he's looking right at her and the so sorry. All right. Chase, what do you got? So we're seeing this. You can do it as we see that something at one point it's purse to the I'm so sorry. No reason making that motion. The thing and when he puts stuff on his head that's when he's that's when he's getting ready to poop.