 So please now come in. Yes, come in. Good afternoon sir. Good afternoon, ma'am. Please, thanks a lot. Thank you, sir They are above Rawat. Yes, sir. You originally belong to Rajasthan? Yes, sir. Rawat sir is generally in Uttarakhand? Yes, sir. So maybe ancestors would have been there from this area or? No, sir. There are Rawats in Rajasthan as well. So Uttarakhand, Rajasthan, Rawats are different? They are different. Yes, sir. Okay. Public relations head. What was your main job? So it was a coding festival. We organized it for three days. So my job was to ensure that everything was running smoothly. Our campaigns were running smoothly. We were in contact with our competitors who were there. It was an international festival, sir. So 110 countries, participants were there. And also, inside our college, we were organizing seminars and conferences before that. So my job, main reason was to ensure that the entire communication of that coding festival was there for the students and it reaches out to everybody. Foreign service is your first choice? Yes, sir. You don't want to serve in states of India? Sir. Very cumbersome job. Sir, foreign service is my first preference because I have an interest in international relations. And I think I will be better equipped to serve there because of my primary interest. But I would be willing to serve in the Indian district as well. See, when people are sitting in the ministries, they also deal with foreign dignitaries and foreign items, commas and others. Yes, sir. So you could have done sitting here also and you could have got a feeling of the real India in the villages. Sir, definitely, sir. That is the case. Indian administrative service officers or other officers also deal with foreign delegations. But it is just a preference, sir. My first preference is foreign service. Second is the IAS. So given a choice, I would like to serve and represent our country. That would be a very big honor for me. Suppose you get into IAS in a district. I find somewhere it is diptych missionaries. Somewhere it is some other designation. How many designations are there? Sir, I am not sure how many designations are there. I have seen some of them. Like district magistrate is there, collector is there. So they are different. Diptych missionaries somewhere, diptych letter somewhere, diptych missionaries. Yes, sir. So there are several designations. And nomenclature of the ministries also is different. Government of India will say ministries. And in the states, we see departments. Why this nomenclature difference? If a minister is there, health minister, he will be heading a department in the state government. But here he will be heading a ministry. Why is this difference? Sir, again, I am not very sure. But probably because each ministry has several departments in it in the central government. Because central government has a task of several states including the states have just to focus on that region. So that is why probably each ministry has several departments into it. That is why it is called a ministry. And in the states, each department is a specific department to focus on that area. What are the principles of our foreign policy? Sir, foreign policy, sir, is basically to ensure national interest of our country. So whenever Indian interests are called for, we adopt those principles. Earlier in 1947, we were largely based on idealism because of our foreign policy and geopolitical interests at that point of time. So it was based on punchy. That was non-interference in other domestic affairs to have mutual respect for sovereignty. And now, sir, although abide by... Those are not there, no? We definitely abide by that, sir, punchy. But now we are more vocal about our interests. And when our interests and we have to take a stand, we do take that stand. So now we are more realist in that principle. But how else have we definitely abide by those principles as well? In the context of COVID, have you heard of graded response action plan? Yes, sir. Recently, High Court suggested daily government to have a graded response action plan because as we see, there might be a third wave. And in that scenario, we need to have a response action plan protocol to have... Sorry, sir. To have a protocol in place. So in terms of number of beds occupied, in terms of number of... In terms of number of infectivity rate in the NCR region, we will have different... Allured in different response. Okay. The accidental prime minister. Heard of this? Sir, it was a book and then it was converted into a movie. What are the actors? Sir, the actor was Akshay Khanna, who was there. Anubang Khair played the role of former prime minister. What are the main characters in that? Sir, I have not watched the movie. Must be knowing you. Sir, Mr. Sanjay Bharu was the media person who was in charge for handling prime minister's affairs. So on his perspective, the book was written. So it says narration and prime minister Manmohan Singh and the UPA government at that point of time. 9th August. How it is important in the international arena? Sir, yesterday we had a UNSC meeting which was chaired by prime minister Modi. This was the first time our honorable prime minister had a UNSC chair. So in that context, we also declared that maritime security is a very important concern. Otherwise, how it is important? Very important. Many decades back. I am not so sure. Thank you so much, sir. Good. Again, you have found out, I mean, policy reasons for Manmohan. Have you read any book written by Akshay Khanna? Sir, I have read choices. Yes, sir. How about, okay, what did you find in that book? How do you like it? So it was really an insightful book. The choices that we take as a nation. Take one instance which we have developed. Sir, with regard to China, his take on how India-China issues from 1985 to 2012 to 2013, they were largely, we were having a good relationship. The border issue was sidelined and we were having a trade relationship. However, there is a pertinent question that why border issues are not being resolved where each country should try to resolve it. So, Shiv Shankar Maninsar's take was that, because each country thinks that time is on their side. So they can maybe change the equations later and that is why our border issues are not resolved. Holding a very important force then, when this whole thing happened. Yes, sir. So, as he said, they have justified himself and his action. He is a party to whatever was happened. Yes, sir. So, he justified his actions as in, because at that point of time, it was very sure that China has a larger advantage compared to us at this point of time. So, our stand in this case is to currently defend our positions and also try to see to ensure a mutually respectable, mutually beneficial solution to this. But if that is not the case, sir, we are not willing to surrender. You are from Rajasthan. Yes, sir. Have you heard of Netver Singh? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. He was also a foreign secretary, minister or whatnot. He has also written a book. You are aware of that book? No, sir. No. Read. That's more political. But do that. Definitely, sir. I will read it. Have you read his books along with the dictionary? Sir, I have not read his books, but his book is very famous. This book? One, two, three. Which one? Yes, sir. Sir, his book on Pat Syndika is very famous. So, I just read the reviews of that book, but sir, I am yet to go through that. Very good. Are you reading Economist, London Economist? Sir, I follow their YouTube channel. Okay. I will do that because you are keen about what is there. But then tell me some of the international institutions for us. I mean, economic interest. Say like IMF. So, can you name other agencies? Yes, sir. So, the Bretton Woods institutions such as World Bank and IMF is there. Then Asian Development Bank is there. Asian is not part of Bretton Woods, but yes. Yes. It's different. But Asian is again regional rather than global. Yes, sir. Okay. And what are this? How about WTO? Yes, sir. WTO is also... Foreign Foreign Office has to be negotiate and bring down. Now, do you think we are really benefited from WTO? Give me one advantage of WTO? Sir, the first, the most important advantage of WTO was that it was based on principle of one country, one world system. No, that's fair enough. But, you know, small countries are bought. Maldives, you give them some aid. No, that's not the point. India, however, we benefit. Forget about the pattern, how it functions. So, sir, because of this, now there is a democratic voice in that institution. So dispute settlement is that one particular function through which we have... No, but there are a number of cases against us by U.S. and others. China, of course. Anti-dumping cases against us. WTO is raising issues on stop piling of food grains, giving MSP, subsidy, etc., to our farmers. So, in what way it's useful? It's more a hindrance. Sir, do you agree with that? Sir, although it has been a mixed reserve because we have also seen that dispute... No, no, give me one place where we are benefited. That's what I'm asking you. Sir, the first thing is that because developing countries were given a preferential treatment in WTO. So, in that case, India did benefit because we were given a larger timeline to have a de minimis that is 10% of subsidies we can give out to our farmers. So, in that case, we were benefited. Secondly, sir, we were given a larger market share because otherwise... Do you know their interpretation of subsidy? How they defend subsidy? I understand that, sir. Three boxers and all, you know that? Yes, sir. The green, blue one. They have various ways of, you know, cornering us. Anyway, so, but then that's the part of diplomacy. You see, even if you don't gain, it's like being a member of some club. No, you will have made me much better still. You can hear and gossip. What is the real trait of a successful foreign service officer? What is the real trait? Tell me. What is the trait? What is the secret? Sir, I agree with... It is to be persuasive, to be persistent because not always things will fall into place. Not always countries would agree to our cause. But we have to be persistent in our cause. We can persuade them. Keep your mouth shut. Keep eyes and ears open. Speak as minimum as possible. Don't give up, especially if you are drinking. Definitely, sir. That is also important. So, you said that you like to go abroad and, you know, represent the country. So, which country inspires you most and what is the basis for that? Ma'am, there is no one particular country which inspires me in every aspect. But the growth of China is really remarkable in the sense that they have lifted millions out of poverty. So, I would like to visit, I would like to work in China. I would like to learn the lessons that they have, how they have done it. So, what do you believe in? Do you believe in the final outcome or do you believe in the process, the way things have been achieved? Ma'am, I believe the processes are very important. They cannot be circumscribed because if processes are faulty, then means the outcome will never be the way that we want to be. There will be somewhere, maybe in short term we can achieve those goals, but in long term they will not be beneficial. Can I ask one question? You know, if you think of China, they achieve them, then do you believe in democracy or dictatorship? You want a president for life? Don't learn wrong lessons from China. Yes, sir. So, that is why I ask the question, how the process or the means matter? Yes, ma'am. It is tricky. I understand that. Sir, I believe that democracy is not the reason why, or the dictatorship is not the reason why China succeeded. I believe it is their investments in human resources, in the health and education system that they have benefited. Otherwise, democracy has its own value and that is why China is called a sprinter, which is a hard condition. Maybe their economic growth, they have achieved it, but we don't know how long it will sustain. So, in our case, ma'am, I believe that India has to learn the right lessons from China. We need to understand that economic growth. I thought the better lesson is to learn from Singapore. They have democracy. Again, you know, they are coming very fast. That is the best example to follow, not China. China, okay. But achieving growth at what cost? Tenement Square, how many were massacred? And today also, you know what's happening in China. I understand that, sir. So, but take Singapore is different. There is a long order. There is a rule same for everybody. That's a really rule of law. And again, the administration, everything is very efficient. And democracy is there. We have the Tamil news. We have the Chinese news. We have the Indian news. Yes, sir. Everything. Sorry. It's absolutely fine. So, you are from Bihar. Yes, ma'am. So, Bihar is known for a very good suite, which is that? Tilpatty. Okay. If not civil services, what is the plan D for you? Ma'am, I would like to continue as a job in a software developer. And I have an interest in cybersecurity domain. So, I will pursue that. For that also, would you like to go abroad and work with some company? Or would you like to resume? Ma'am, I have not really thought about it much. But I believe that economic opportunities in India are vast right now. So, I would like to work here and grow. Can you tell about two international events which has happened for the last two days from in months? Ma'am, the first is the UNSC meeting. That was a virtual conference last yesterday. Anything which has not to do with India? And yesterday also, there was an IPCC report which came out. So, that is a precursor to COP2626, which has to be held in Scotland. So, climate change is the global concern right now and that is also very important. Okay. So, space technology. Okay. This is getting privatized, increasingly privatized. And can India catch up or thrive in this space with respect to other countries? So, what is your view on that? Ma'am, in space technology, right now we are trying to catch up with the western countries, especially the America and China. Because right now, Ma'am, it was for the last 50, 60 years, only ISRO was working and the state government and the central government was basically involved in R&D innovation. Now, right now we need to commercialize certain aspects of space technology so that private investments can flourish. What we have seen with companies like SpaceX or the Amazon Group or the Virgin Group. So, these companies, Ma'am, Indian startups also have that potential to become these large companies. But we need investments in both technology as well as human resource to compete to that level. Now, an IFS officer or the foreign minister is doing really well. Let's have a revenue server and a policy server and a defense minister. What do you think? Sir, I believe that if somebody is worthy enough of that position and if they are capable to serve in that position because of their experience, I personally have no reason why they should not be in that position. It is matter of our best possible choices from whom we can connect. With respect to their experience in the better than civilian qualification. Do you think so? Sir, that is not insured because we cannot ensure that a person... Now, you have a foreign servant who has worked in foreign service for 30 years who is a foreign minister. It's obvious he'll have more experience engaging in foreign policy. Same can apply in other areas as well. Sir, it can apply. I agree with you. But it is not insured that a civilian parliamentarian or civilian person cannot be a better person in revenue department or in the police and home ministry. So, maybe a person who is capable enough, we have previously also bureaucrats turning into politicians and doing good for our country. Maybe in future also, sir, we can have those. But it is not insured, sir. What are the suppose? Sir, it is a Korean word for conglomerates in Korean economy. Largely, the government subsidized large companies to become... to actually flourish in economies of scale. And they own the entire vertical of that operation. You've been to South Korea also? Yes, sir. They have amazing companies. You have Samsung, you have North Korea. Yes, sir. How is it... What about Korea is that they are able to come up with such huge manufacturing companies? Sir, when we see Korea's development trajectory, initially it was not a democracy. It was an authoritarian system under dictatorship. And at that point of time, they really worked hard to ensure that these Chaebols company, they have no competition. They were entirely... The domestic market was under there. So, and then they started working out in low end manufacturing to the world. Slowly they moved on to high end manufacturing and today we see these companies are globally comparative. So, it's a long trajectory of right investments. Dictatorship is responsible for the rise of Chaebols. Sir, I believe that democracy and dictatorship are not the essential characteristics of Chaebols success. These were the parts and processes of this development. It is actually the right investments made by the leadership at that point of time to invest in human resources, to invest in these companies. Despite of being such large companies, Samsung's head holes are restricted. Sir, today itself you went out for a beer. Today it is not for a beer. So, do you think it's possible in India that such kind of strict rule of law will be implemented against large business owners? Sir, I believe due process of law is followed in our country and the kind of corruption which what we saw in Samsung and in South Korea is not what we see in India because Chaebols, they have internal political connections with all the political parties there. So, in India, sir, I believe that due process of law is followed even before such processes take place. Patent war between Apple and Samsung? Sir, because of the global competition that these companies face, there is a large amount of tussle in not only in design and manufacturing processes and products and process patent boards. So, recently there was one patent which was like the design and the home screen button which Apple sued Samsung that it was actually their design. Is it stifling innovation? Sir, I believe monopoly is what stifles innovation. Patent processes kind of elongates that it restricts certain type of innovation. However, sir, it is also an incentive for private companies to actually patent these processes and work hard to innovate further. I find your hobby is very interesting following international media's discussions on India. How is foreign media perceiving India's role in Afghanistan? Sir, I have not come across any kind of discussion which actually discusses India's role in Afghanistan. So, they don't assume we have a role? Sir, the American media does see India as a regional partner which need to be consulted. However, they do not see actually a very, very pivotal role in India's. How is foreign media's perception of India different from our own perception of India's relevance? Sir, I have seen that firstly they only see the very highlighted issues and we know how things in ground work. So, their view is a very, very macro view whereas we also understand how the nuances of our society, of our economy and of our life work. So, in that scenario sir, we have seen in recent times the foreign media is largely, has a dismissive or a criticizing role in India's case. It is largely because they have their own view of the world which is largely Eurocentric. Last, last question. So, which media houses can be considered as favorable towards India and which are against India? Sir, we have seen that Al Jazeera and the left-leaning media houses which has a Washington Post or the New York Times, they have been more criticized, they have more criticized, more... Economist. Sir, I have seen economists on both fronts. I do not see it as any particular leanings but it is largely, sir, all media houses in the western countries have a political bias which is left-leaning. So, in our case and it is not only our case, it is with the Brazil as well because they also have a right-wing government of President Jair Bolsonaro. So, that is the case with all developing countries. Okay. The interview is over.