 Good morning and can I welcome everyone to the seventh meeting of the education and skills committee in 2018. Can I please remind everyone present to turn our mobile phones and other devices on to silent for the duration of the meeting and I start off with giving apologies from Mary Fee who because of the weather is struggling to get through to the meeting today. Agenda item 1 is a continuing care Scotland amendment order 2018 S5M1.0206 y gyffredigau ddraffsau ar gyfrydau y Llywodraeth am y cyd-seriaeth cerdyniaeth o'r eistedd yn cyfrifio yng Ngheilhau 1. Oes oedd yr eistedd yn cyrraedd perffodus i gyd, ac â'r ysgolon oherwydd fod cyd-seriaeth o'r ysgolon, mae oedd gennym yn cyfnodol. A gynnaith wefais ar y dyfog yn cael'u mwyaf i'r hefyd mewn ei gyrdog. Oeiddiwch yn rhaid i gyd, Meri Todd, Ymgyrchu Eidlwyr Fygrwsol, Dr Carolyn Ew已, Unay, companies parenting, and formal care team leader. A reso, Darvi Sardha, children and family solicitors, Scottish Government. I invite the minister to make an opening statement to explain the order. For the opportunity to introduce this draft instrument before the committee today. The continuing care amendment order amends article 2 of the continuing care Scotland order 2015, a phubmau am 1 April 2018, the limit for eligible persons set with the age limit specified for shared purposes of section 26A2B of the Children's dependants of Scotland Act 1995 is increased from 19 to 20 years of age. That means, from 1 April in eligibility行動 for the purposes of the duty and local authorities to provide continuing care The 1995 act is a person who is at least 16 years of age and who has not yet reached the age of 20. By virtue of article 3 of the 2015 order, the local authority's duty to provide continuing care lasts from the date on which an eligible person ceases to be looked after until the date of their 21st birthday. In summary, continuing care and the accompanying secondary legislation stresses the importance of encouraging and enabling young people to remain in their care setting until they are able to demonstrate their readiness and willingness to move on to interdependent living. Interdependence more accurately reflects the day-to-day realities of an extended range of health interpersonal relationships, social support and networks. Continuing care undoubtedly normalises the experience of care-experienced young people in friendship, foster and residential care by allowing strong and positive relationships between young person and carer to be maintained and reducing the risk of multiple simultaneous disruptions occurring in their lives as they approach adulthood. This draft order is essentially a procedural amendment to increase the higher age limit for eligible persons from 19 to 20 years of age as part of an agreed annual roll-out strategy, increasing the higher age range in step with the first eligible cohort of 16-year-olds until eventually by next April 2019. The entitlement will cover all young people who cease to be looked after on or after their 16th birthday to remain in continuing care between up to their 21st birthday. The draft order will revoke the continuing care Scotland order 2017, and I am happy to take questions. Thank you very much. Do any members have questions of clarification? I am not sure of its clarification. I think that we would all support the policy and commend the young people, care-experienced young people, who drove the agenda and made sure that there were changes in the legislation. I had a callant feel like a year ago when we were debating the order that preceded this one, which presumably would have taken up to 18. I am interested in what work you have done on your awareness of how much this is actually being implemented because we can roll out the procedure, but we are not rolling out the reality for young people. We are failing them, so I wonder if you have figures on the numbers of young people who have benefitted from this, from 17-year-olds, 18-year-olds and, presumably, 19-year-olds thus far? What work has been done to ensure that young people are aware and that those who are caring for them are aware of those changes? The demographic information and the data on numbers and types of placements that are collected and looked after in Scotland are reported in the annual national statistics publication on children's social work statistics. The first full year of data on continuing care will be collected in 2017 and, depending on the data quality, it will be published from March this year. The Scottish Government works with local authorities continually to review data collection and to agree any changes to further collections and developments, for example proposals to collect new data or to stop collecting data. Due to the time required for local authorities to procure changes to their own systems, any changes made to collections are put in place for two years ahead with key stakeholders, including Celsus, Scottish through care and after care forum staff and the fostering network, to gather information that will give us an indication of take-up rates and identify any particular barriers to eligible young people being provided with this entitlement. To be clear, we do not know this far. We have no idea, although we are extending it, whether young people know or not. What conversations have you had with local authorities and those working particularly with young people with care experience to establish? I certainly have heard anecdotally that it does not appear to be something that has moved on in any great way. I wonder if you would agree that we can do the procedural stuff here that is easy and I commend you for doing that. However, if the reality is that young people are neither aware nor benefiting from it, I think that we are failing the high expectations that people have of the legislation. I wonder what suggestions you might have. Data gathering is one thing. I am actually engaging and I have put a debate with or a conversation with local authorities, COSLA, care experience, young people themselves on what needs to be done, I think, would be probable. I do not want to come back here in another year. Move it on one more year and we have no evidence that things have changed. No, I would agree. I think that in fact there will be probably some progress to report by the time I come and see you next month in front of this committee. I am coming to appear in front of this committee on the 21st of March and I would hope to have some more detail to report to you then when I come and see you then. I also have a number of issues that the policy implementation has been raised with me by Kezia Dugdale, who is a substitute member on this committee. I plan to meet her at the end of March and I would expect to be able to hear her concerns and for us to act on those concerns at that time. Our meeting next month, you will be able to report back on the discussions that you have had with local authorities about progress as I hope to be able to give you a report of some of the progress that is going on on policy implementation next month. I will definitely be able to give you some more detail. Just on that theme minister and very briefly, could you just explain what conversations you have had with local authorities about how to publicise this? I think that the information sharing on this is very important and just to make people aware of what they can have in terms of assistance. We supported the developing of a continuing care focus group of local authority representatives inviting feedback on issues arising from the implementation of continuing care in their own local authorities. That forum has been gathering information on the use of continuing care and offers peer support to develop and resolve any issues. There is undoubtedly work going on. The Scottish through care and after care forum also supported by the Scottish Government hold regular management and practitioner events that share information on continuing care. We fund the centre of excellence for looked after children's houses who are producing regular practitioner documents on all aspects of the 2014 act and hold conferences and events that include workshops on continuing care. I have also written an article for the fostering network, Scotland magazine inviting the foster care readership to ask any questions or give feedback on continuing care since its implementation in 2015. Thank you minister, I think that that is very helpful. I think that some people are unaware of what they can actually have in terms of assistance so it would be helpful if we can find ways to publicise this. Absolutely, I agree. George, you wanted to come in? Just on the fact that on the back of Joanne and Liz I've already said is the fact that during the process that I was on the committee during that time and one of the most exciting parts where it was a group of young people that effectively changed legislation and it was probably one of the best parts of the last term when I was here was just seeing their faces, the fact that this was life changing and the important part is to make sure that we do and make it work but one of the strong points was that came from the third sector and a lot of the agencies involved with the young people. Have you had much interaction with them to make sure that you know we can still keep the dialogue going and whether they can actually tell us how, because their testimony the last time was what made all the difference and I think it's important that we know what's coming from them with the way and they're probably key to making this work as well. Absolutely, I absolutely agree. You'll be well aware of the care review, the root and branch review of the whole care system that's going on and there is a huge level of engagement. Although that's independent of government, there's a huge level of engagement between the third sector, the individuals who are care experienced and that review process and I gather you have Fiona Duncan form the care review coming to give evidence to the committee so I think you'll get a great deal of reassurance from that about how involved they are in developing both policy and legislation going forward. Okay, thank you. Any other members wish to comment on that case? Can I move to agenda item 2, which is a formal debate on motion S5M-10206 in the name of the minister? I remind everyone that officials are not permitted to contribute to formal debates of this kind and I ask the minister to move the motion. Moved. I invite contributions from any member, so have them in that case. I will now put the question to the committee. The question is that motion S5M-10206 be agreed to, are we all agreed? Thank you. The committee must report to Parliament on this instrument. Are members content for me as convener to sign off a report? Thank you. That concludes our consideration of agenda item 2. Thank you minister and officials for your attendance and the suspended meeting to allow witnesses to leave and for the crowd behind you to disperse. Thank you very much. Item 3 in the agenda is the protection of vulnerable groups Scotland Act 2007, prescribed services, protected adults, amendment regulations 2018, SSI 2018-28. Information on the instrument is provided in paper 2. This is a negative instrument and will come into force unless Parliament agrees to a motion to annul it. No motion to annul has been lodged. Members will see that delegated powers and law reform committee considered the instrument on 20 February 2018 and determined that there were no issues within its remit to draw to the attention of the Parliament. Do members have any comments on the instrument? In that case, I move on to the next agenda item, which is consideration of paper 3, which is an update from the committee's EU reporter, Gillian Martin MSP. Gillian, I understand that you would like to say a few words. Thank you, convener. You've all got my EU reporter's report in front of you. I want to start by putting on record a thanks to North East Scotland College for everything they did for us in Peterhead the other week when we were up visiting there. I know how much effort goes into organising visits like that and we all found it very worthwhile. It's no surprise to committee members that one of the main themes of the visit at Nescolon in Peterhead was uncertainty over Brexit. Funding for fishermen training at the Scottish Maritime Academy largely comes from the EU and there's no clarity as to how that funding will be replaced or the extent of the impact of the removal of that funding. In addition, the EU 27 students that I and Ross Greer met reflected that they had no idea what the future held, saying that they had little or no contact from the UK Government or their embises. The only information that they had received about Brexit was from the Scottish Government in relation to tuition fees. We turned to the figures on the EU 27 students applying to study in Scotland in paper 3. I'm pleased to see that there's not been a notable dip in numbers and I imagine that the funding of tuition fees in the Scottish Government may have influenced that. Lastly, there's some information on Erasmus and I'd like to ask the clerks if they will ensure that members receive the report to be published by the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Relations Committee in March for this committee's on-going interest. Thank you very much, Gillian. There's a suggestion on page 1 of the paper for the convener to write back to the Finance and Constitution Committee noting the lack of overlap in the areas highlighted and indicating that we currently have no plans to undertake work in these areas. The committee will, however, continue to monitor wider EU issues such as the scope for participation in Erasmus plus, after Brexit, the number of EU 27 students applying to Scottish HEIs, etc. The clerks will do the work that you asked me to do. Does the committee have any comments on those recommendations? I agree with those recommendations and to thank Gillian for the paper. It was really interesting. I don't know how many people are in here, but I didn't want to leave the European Union. I recognise that, for example, the issue around the funding of European students was necessary. I remember Mike Russell at the time saying that this was something that he had to do in terms of his obligations. Have we got any sense of what we can't speak for the Government in this proposal, but do you have a sense in the conversations that you have had? Are we now in a position where we are saying that we are presuming in Scotland that we would fund EU students as long as we are in the European Union? Or is it that we still have to do, but we don't have any choice? Do we have any sense of what would happen if we ended up leaving? That is a question for the Government. I am just interested in whether this is a conversation that has been picked up. I am sure that I have agreed that the impression that we got from the students that we met was that the extension was very welcome. A couple of them actually said that we asked them have you got family members that had been planning to move over here that have decided as a result not to. There was mixed results. Someone said that maybe they weren't moving it along but they were waiting to see what happened. I think that the fact that we are given a sense that we still want to welcome them to study over here means that they will make the decisions to still come over here. I got the impression that it was very welcome from the people that we spoke to. I think that we are doing all the right things. I do not think that it seems to be an obligation. I think that it is a desire rather than an obligation. That is the impression that I get. Thanks very much, Shelley. No other comments in that case. Is the committee content for the European reporter to pursue the action points on behalf of the committee? In that case, I formally close the meeting. Was that to your liking?