 I knew I made a mistake taking the train, so I am a member of the RACES, I'm a third year student at the Greek Art Theatre, Carlos Kuhn, and we got to work with Mr. Eleuraz, I got to work with Mr. Caner at the Analogio Festival last year, which was an awesome joy, and this year with Mr. Eleuraz as well, that's for now. Okay, hello, my name is Daphne Scrumbello, I've studied in London acting and performing arts. Well, in London Metropolitan University I did performing arts, and the Bridge Theatre Training Company and acting, and I'd like to thank Ceci for selecting me to be here today, thank you. Hello, my name is Andreas Papalatos, I grew up in York where I received my education. I'm an actor, director, and my second geo-participating in this festival, and thank you for inviting me. First of all, here's Gerd, I'm from Germany, I'm the theatre director and the artistic director of the Teatro Municipale, how do you call this in European cinema? I was in theatre in Germany, I was, that's the older generation, always reacts on that, but I was for a while the assistant of Peter Stein, which is my name is director, and I'm in theatre since nearly 40 years now, so my whole life. Hello, I'm Larissa Redgum, I'm also an actress for quite some time now. I'm always interested though in acting in other languages, that's why I decided to take part in this masterclass, because I also grew up abroad, I did school in Brussels, I'm half anyway, I'm half Czech, so I'm always interested in being able to act in other countries and languages, and it's my wish and goal in general, acting I think takes us to the world, and that's my goal. Thank you, I'm an empty chair, I got in our kissing chair, I come from Tel Aviv, I'm a theatre scholar from Tel Aviv University, theatre department, also an actor, director, translator, dramaturg, and a husband of a Hoover, which is my main profession. I doubt it. I'm a boobah from Tel Aviv, actress, teacher, and his little wife. Hi, I'm Evie, Evie Frauny, I started acting here in Oziathina, and I always was one of my favorite teachers here. Thanks very much. Okay, I'm Yorva Zamidakis, I'm from here, from Greece, I'm theatre director, and I'm also professor here at this university, and I participate the previous year in Analogio Festival with a quad of Beckett, a small part of Beckett, it was an outdoor performance, and this is the reason that Cici had the kindness to invite me again and to work with my graduate students about this scene. We try to create, we use only one translation, but we try to make different versions in the level of the voice, in the energy, in the space, different kind of the injections. And actually we have worked with one or two more versions that we don't present today, but this is my way to create material and to embody the text. Actually for me, because it was only four days, it was a kind of lesson, it's in progress. That's it, thank you. Hello, I'm Mirini Hormuzzi from Greece, and we just project it from this drama school of Athens Conservatory, and so we are going to thank you, you're the owner, for inviting us. I'm your favorite professor. I want to thank you. It's a pleasure to work again with you. And she's your favorite student. She is. All of them. All my sons, yes. Well, my name is Beatrice Polenakis, I am an anthropocritic and writer. She is the president of the Greek Association of Theater Critics, the president. Yeah, he's very modest. My name is Maro Poccia, I am a dramaturg and an anthropocritic member of the Greek Association. And I am the executive director of the Hamaibali Festival. Okay, hi. My name is Constantine Stonvaldi, and I have started the drama here at Athens Conservatory, and your role, she is my favorite and lovely dad. Just a moment. Hi from me also. First of all, also, your role is my favorite teacher. I'm Beatrice, I'm Greek, and I just graduated from the conservatory in Greek drama school. I wish I had as many admirers as you. Thank you. My name is Yavil, I'm originally from Israel, and the last seven years I've been living in the United States, in Massachusetts, where I teach at Iris College. Okay, so everybody's introduced, we can start. The title of this event, I mean the entire event from the beginning of this morning, is Re-Locating Antiboda, and it indicates its purpose. What happens to a stage conception of an ancient play that has been de-contextualized from its natural habitation ground and relocated, like Medea, for instance, in a foreign country. A foreign language is also entrenched in a foreign culture, associations, habits, or what per pier, or here, the colds, a habitus. And this means also socially shaped, mentality, body language, intonation, social structures, et cetera. So this brings up several questions, and I won't delve of that too long, because anyway, I want to give the right to speak to everybody. What is actually translation? Is it an accurate transportation of lexis, of syntax, of rhythm, of rhyme, of reader, of style, of meaning, and so on? And I am just taking a little episode at the Habima Theater, the National Theater of Israel, where we made Medea about 10 years ago. We wanted to use the translator, wanted to use, in Hebrew, considered, wanted to use a British translation by, I think, Peter Schaefer, if I'm not mistaken. And the British agency of Peter Schaefer demanded a royalties of foreign interpretation. So we engaged a Greek scholar at Tel Aviv University, and we asked her, please, compare the original with a translation. What she did, and she says, this is a one-to-one, accurate translation. And I said, there's nothing. Indeed, the British said, there's nothing like that. Even if it's accurate, one-to-one, it is an adaptation. So this brings up what is a translation. Of course, on the one hand, as I said, there is this very lawyer translation. On the other hand, a translation can be understood as an intercultural act, or even an intracultural act, as you did, taking ancient Greek play and translating it again. So actually it's a transportation not of text to text, but of context to context. This one question, the other question is, what kind of text do I translate? Do I approach a translation of a classical text than the same manner in the translation of a contemporary text, or do I try to contemporize the classical text? Another question, what is the purpose of the translation and for whom is it intended? Is it intended for academic scholars, like I think Jeb's translation, which was not, I think, intended for performance, for philologists, for the broad reading public, or is it intended for performance? If so, where? Before what kind of public? So after all, these questions is a good translation, a lawyer rendering of the original, and you know there is this old, and I apologize for the female part of this public, because there is an old, I don't know if it exists only in Hebrew, but there is an old provert comparing a translation to a woman. If it is lawyer, it is ugly, and if it is beautiful, it is disloyal. And... I hope that nobody... I knew this would raise a storm, I don't identify, I just grew up. Or is any translation actually a new word? A new word, because there is, I think one of the, one Israeli poet issued the book of translation, or poet representation, called it a kiss through a handkerchief. And is it really a kiss through a handkerchief, or is it a different kiss? And a boomer kiss. So, I am finished with my introduction. Ladies and gentlemen, each of you, whoever likes from his or her unique viewpoint, how would you define a good translation of a classical romantic word? What is a good translation? Does anybody have an idea? If I may. Because I translate myself. I think that a good translation, a translator has to know both languages, as their primary language. So this way, if you're translating Greek into English, you know the English language extremely well, so you can choose and manipulate the words to suit the Greek. So for me, a good translation is from someone who knows both languages extremely well. And it's first in both languages. And is he allowed, as you say, is he allowed to introduce new forms, or new... No, because then it would shy away from a translation and become something else. For me. Yes, somebody else wants to relate to this question. One, one is a problem, between speaking with these type of folks, is that the Greek language, it's very tight, it's very... Yes, and we have many, many other words in the mix that you can explain the same thing. For me, this is richness of course, but this creates also a big discussion between director and the translator, because for my opinion, the director has to explain exactly what kind of performance he had in mind and to start to work with the translator before organizing the performance and to explain what kind of performance he would like to make and to be in a very, very close cooperation and maybe in the beginning of the work to see what is easy for the actors, what actors do you have. That means it's always a conversation between the... Actually, this chapter... Now, and the last, this translation is a very loose translation. I know that academics say it is not very accurate, but for actors it is beautiful. It flows, it is speechable, it's speakable, it is really vivid. And this brings me to the next question which is directed to the actors here. And I have a small introduction to that yesterday. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. I would like to go back to... Well, basically, I had three options. You send me three options of three different translations and I was choosing Johnston, which was quite as we know it. And the Jack translation, I read it and I didn't understand it. And I needed a dictionary, basically. And to prepare for the workshop, I really went... Because there were many words which I just don't know, which I've had interesting. I'd like to say this is the idea of the workshop to have a big distance between the different translations. For me, the question is... Sorry, it's a bit of a different direction than that what you asked. Because you said you speak ancient Greek language. Is it needed to speak the original language? That's my question, because I know... I know, for example, in Germany, when you go to direct... And you get at least ten different translations the publishers offer you. And I know just a very, very small minority of these translators speak ancient Greek. Because these people, they even translate Shakespeare and Mollier, etc., etc., etc. Most of even Peter Stein, who did the famous translation of Oresthea, does not really seriously speak Greek. He learned in school a hundred years ago. So in me, I learned Greek or Greek in school, but it's ages ago. So when I look into the original, I still kind of maybe discover one or two words which I can connect, but most of the translators did not speak the original language, which I'm... And the question is, is this needed? Because, and then I stop. Hergaly, I don't know if anybody knows if it was Hergaly. He did the most famous translation of Ynipus. And he did a big series of Greek. Next question. I'm doing my PhD in acting as a part in dance theater mostly, but I think it's just a small observation. I think the issue here is the whole time dealing between subjectivity and objectivity, originality and innovation. And for me, actually, the question that we have here mostly moves is not the choice between being very few to be original or if I am adapting the original to my own needs as a director. Because I think, as what you said before, every decision, we are always obliged to choose as directors and it's mostly a political act. So I think it's also... We have to think that every translation is also a lack of interpretation because we come with a theoretical framework and even when sometimes we're not conscious of our choices, we're still choosing, so that's what I would like to say. Yes, please. Yes, there's one area we have to think of in creating production and that's the audience who you are speaking to and your choices also have to think about that very much. When I did Antigone, strangely, I did an English, but I went into the correct version of Antigone, which is quite close to the original and in English it came over very directly and we really felt that we were going back to the Greek, the original Greek. It's a really strong translation. Right, sir. Right is an adaptation. Yes, well, it is an adaptation. Yes, an adaptation. Sorry, I'm not getting into the translation. Adaptations. I'm assuming we're putting things on stage for an audience and that we have to make choices as to who we are going to as well. What you're saying is that it has the same immediacy with the audience as we presume the original did for the Greek audience. Could I just add one little thing to what Matthias was saying? Ideally, when you're reinventing from one language into another, you need to have a linguist and a poet. If you can't find those two people in one, then you have two. When I'm working from a language which I don't understand, I ask for a literal translation and then I recreate that as if I was the original author writing in my own language. That's interesting. That's a true one. I would like blood in this, in Greece. We have, let's say, about maybe 100 translations or maybe more. What is the difference? Everybody, most of them, they know I should quit. Most of them, not all of them. The difference is if there is a poet behind and in cooperation with a translator. This is my way, how I choose this translation that I choose. I choose because it's the simplicity, the beauty and the poetry. And it's the same text and here is a, for me, for my aesthetic, here is a poem, I don't connect with this poem. You can't say it's a poem, literally. You have to become the poet again, deliver it. I think this is the key point is, for me, translator and the poet at the same time in a conversation with the director. So this brings me to the question that I wanted to ask before. Yesterday, I don't know who of you has been in the symposium. No, it worked for me. Yeah, it worked for me. I also worked for this and I've been for me at the end. It was a very interesting lecture by a Greek scholar called Dr. Vios Diapis, whom you might know, and he spoke about a Canadian translation which is the sister of the English translation that Yagir worked with. A translation by a poet and scholar called Carlson. And he spoke about one, let's say, faculty of her translation which he called a talent text, which is a text, a multi-hybrid text which retains the whole voyage that antiqually, for instance, made from antiqually to today because we didn't receive the text as a complete text. We received parts of it and over the year it was completed, it was changed and so on. And she made up a text which retains all these layers and, for instance, she told a very interesting story which they know that one of the stations that this text or other Greek text made is they wrapped the what do you call it? The papyrus. They wrapped the manias with the papyrus of text. So you found plays around manias which is rather a cover and very interesting but anyway and following that, I want to ask the actors do you find it more interesting to work with a text that is complex, poetic has some layers then a text that is fluid and sits on the tongue and you don't have any problems with it. Yes. I just wanted to comment on that because we almost just said I've talked about the poetry in the text and for me finally the most interesting part working on two difference in English first of all, nothing Greek for once but suddenly the text by Jeb which is from the 19th century in the beginning it frightened me more but I think at the end it was the one I enjoyed more and because exactly it was more poetic and finally on that text we put more movement also Did you find more layers of meaning in it or is it just me let's say the poetry? For me it helped a lot that of course I can read in Greek of course because with the old text I went in some parts to the Greek text to see exactly what I'm saying But did you reveal new things that you didn't find in the Greek? Did he actually open up new wisdoms? At some points yes but also because of the poetic elements somehow I think it came much more strong maybe and how I delivered it I think because I couldn't see it but that's what I felt The modern text was also very interesting but finally I really enjoyed the Jeb texts and sorry just to end this it was very interesting to do both finally because I could feel the difference You signed this wonderful man here and as an artist I believe that the most difficult text is the more interesting being the speaker of English I didn't really give much credence to the modern English because it's second nature to me where with the 19th century translation I really had a concentrate and make it flow out of me like it's my natural language so for me it's the most complex for an actor I think Because there are two philosophies among translators about the text the text that you don't feel it is a translation as if it is original and the other the opposite philosophy is no, you have to feel it is a translation and you have to feel this what the press called this this estrangement also yeah I think that's the whole problem begins because we confuse two different notions one notion is me and the other is imitation so this is due to a major misunderstanding of the question of aristocracy because tragedy is not a meaning it's a tragic action because tragic action that not exists out of the tragedy it is a tragic imitation of a semantic act so that causes the problem because if we follow the second conception imitation and not the meaning that's very interesting what you say, it's something I studied from our back when I studied as a my BA it's similar to an actor wearing a mask some reductions you put the mask on and you have to elevate your performance and you're working under a kind of restriction but you're maybe finding something extra on top of that so maybe Jeff when you're doing Jeff that is rather like wearing a historical mask which allows you to express it more strongly and Jeff was in fact a friend of George so he was writing at a time when there was a strong female voice already in literature putting new ideas forward speaking about the female voice again actors or some any other did you feel that the translation you worked with decked up more or sided with creon or with activity was there any yes please one interesting aspect of that that we discussed with you because so much of the way that they interact is on a public level and in the last minute they shift into a more private conversation the first thing that we thought about that you thought about was who was more comfortable in each scenario and when it comes to public speaking and Tiffany is unnatural because she's furious she's limited at everything that's been happening and so when she takes care to take the people with her and creon is completely not her equal in that respect he is far more comfortable addressing her in private and trying to reason with her or trying to explain to her what's been going on when he tries to speak in public he doesn't have her charisma he doesn't have a conviction he doesn't have her sense of right and wrong because he's a politician and Antigon is not a politician which makes her I think much more equipped to address the crowd as opposed to him who is always hiding behind his status and his public appeal I don't know how many people have heard Oliver Tapplin say that Nelson Mandela played crown in prison in order to explore the nature of the town yeah there's another actress would like to refer to this he's not a politician he's Italian exactly he's Italian so the problem is not who is right or wrong the problem is who has the guts to take up this is a real problem this is a controversy we had yesterday with the who has been yesterday in the performance of what group how is it called? Antigon who is beyond is a tyrant or is a person who is taking extreme measures in an emergency situation one thing he starts the play had the name the protagonist is Crayon and he will have only one scene at least from the beginning he destroyed at the end he's similar to Pantheon in the back eye because his job is to create law and order in a city which has just been torn apart and there's a speech early on where he's saying the war is over we are at peace the sun is shining all that stuff is there but there's just one problem there's a body out there it's not being buried and someone's going to bury it and that's against the law and we've got to have the law that's his argument we have to feel for clear we have to place ourselves within his skin otherwise it's a war curve all that we talk about it's a discussion about democracy I do think just to add very briefly to what Mr Polo Lankis was saying but when we're talking about tyranny the term itself has a history we're not talking the way that we use the term tyrant and at the temporary setting it's much different to the tyrant that we refer to as Crayon yes the principle is the same it is someone who decides without democratic process but it is still a valid political standing back in the day whereas nowadays the tyrant is someone that cannot possibly take power for himself in the 5th century they have the same they have the same what do we mean by tyrant it's the same people of the 2nd century yes but it's a developing notion it's not the same notion starting but there is another thing I'm a very small something like Bomolos or something like another definition of a ruler which is someone who is from the tradition of the dynasty and someone who is not because how does the word matter I would like to get back to the question of translators and this refers to the work you did here not to translation in general the very fact that the Germans were directors worked with Greek actors is in itself an act of translation in addition to the fact that they were neither in Hebrew nor in German but nor in German that worked in English so we have a three fold translation act in what respect does this experience differ from working I'm speaking of the actors now in what respect does it differ from working with the Greek director and the other way and Mr. Zambulakis how does it feel to work on a text in an ancient week but you didn't work in an ancient week so this is no so the first question is really we have here multiple translations so how does it work would you like Matthias to refer to it that means of misunderstandings that's logic you cannot avoid this but you know this before that means when we speak not one of us speaks in his mother language we try to meet somewhere in the middle of so called English and then being confronted with a text which is translated into English etc it's a little crazy where we meet and it's interesting what I enjoyed so much about this process is just to tell you this once we come from very different backgrounds different cultures, different languages different experience with this play which everybody at least pretends to know and after five minutes we can start to work and that is the luxury in theatre that's what I feel is absolute luxury and I don't know other professional world where you can start from zero to that level without knowing each other I don't know your family name, I have it on the paper I will forget it but I know you know that and we start and that is very very interesting and that is very unique in theatre I love this a lot I have worked in different languages I have even directed plays in Hebrew which I do not understand the word of Hebrew and it's possible I did the scene that is the first premiere of Women of Situa in Sri Lanka without understanding one word it's like directing an opera and you did several versions of Ilypus when we speak about translations to come back to that the first production of Ilypus I did was my first in contact with the director on Antique Place and my my basic thesis was it's so far away from us we don't know who they are we don't know what faith is we don't know what the gods is we don't know what the cure is it has nothing to do with our daily life let's be honest it's a way so let's choose translation which focus on this distance this is not as we are I have seen once a production Ilypus on a mobile phone it's kind of directing we talk about Ilypus we don't know really what faith is it's two and a half thousand years old material so let's show the distance and that's for example why I choose this translation of Höllerlin which is the most difficult and most keeps the distance most by language in the German context then we used masks and the whole thing nearly killed us because it was really very, very difficult but this is what I want to say is it depends what you want to do with the play what is the space like this it is a huge stage is it outside, is it inside etc. this even is part of arguments to decide this translation or that translation there's very much to do with not only the audience but the space the distance etc. and what do you want to do with the play you want to say it's now, it's here it's here, I don't believe that or do you say we look for something which is for us very strange exciting, exotic but away from our daily situations yes please of course I believe that there are many, I'm not a translator an academic person or a director and I don't have the experience or the knowledge to talk in an academic way so much but I think that we all feel or think things in tragedy that they are important not even you don't understand in the logical way I don't know if we always have to make it try to understand I don't think that always it's an understanding of course the thing you say now it's very important where what is the purpose we have to be aware of the purpose I'm a translator I'm not an academic person as you said I'm an artist also so as a translator I have to make a goal I have to have a purpose do I have to show the poetic side to insist very much in the poetic side of the play do I have to make a try for the episodes I remember I was in the second year in the drama school in this drama school and we had to work on Antigone with the teacher so I remember and also Volonakis translation in Greek and that's because there is a full strength of power, of beauty, of poetry but then we had to make a try to insist to the relationship of Crem and Antigone so we chose planas we could see another translator another translator we could see, we could feel that the purpose was to insist to the relationship of Crem and Antigone and not to the poetic side also I saw this summer a Netherlands French production of Orestes and Elytra of Iwo Van Thog yeah the chorus part was not that strong the language when the chorus was talking I was looking the third so yeah I didn't find the strength of the poet I didn't find the strength of the philosophy feeling side of the play but the Orestes and Elytra power they had in the relationship was too strong maybe had to go to a small closed black box or a different theater but you always have to be flexible to feel and see which is the purpose of the artists even if the name is translator director or actor it's like a union we have to embrace all each other and find a purpose of working where do we go well the last two years I teach Antigone at the educational program of the Laskaris foundation here in Athens the director of the Laskaris foundations here with us today so I teach students of 17 years old who had Antigone in their school program and I see many many many students translators I have all the texts translated in Greek from different translators I have the answer in Greek text there and depending of the school I mean if the school has students high class students, middle class students but it depends immigrants and so on I present two translations and they choose which one they like they choose the students of 16 years old they choose the translation it's more close to them that's the first second one this year I prepared the opening ceremony at the Sarajevo Winter Festival presenting a fragment of Antigone the third Stasimon with with the students of the music academy of Sarajevo and one Greek actor who had the role to receive the text in us in Greek you know here in Greece Greek actors can sketch in us in Greek if need is and they all know how to compare a translation if they have the answer in Greek the answer in Greek text and the modern Greek translation side by side okay well in Sarajevo the performance was held on the wall that overlook the city and it is almost destroyed from the civil war there were about 1000 people students academics from all 1000 people there in the winter it was cold and at the end of the performance they all said the famous verses from the third Stasimon I was born to love and not I totally agree with what Leandros Colinakis stated before that that verses in modern times has an Orthodox Christianity connotation but that's the evolution of the tragedy I mean in ancient Greek Athens in the classic times tragedy had one role, had one educational political and so on function in modern times tragedy does not belong does not belong to to Greeks anymore or does not belong to Greeks alone, it is universal it is universal so what we do today here I think it's what us in Greeks used to do at the Rodion Theater under Parthenon and what they used to do at all the religious celebration they used to present us in Greek tragedy because sometimes we forget that during all these rituals there are many a tranzer many strangers many people from other countries from other cities from other cities that they used to come in Athens that's the purpose of this workshop that's the purpose of an analogy to bring together people to bring together to bring together cultures and to to underline cultural interfaces and telling that I would like to propose to Yagil to give the permission to these two young young people to come at the closing ceremony today and to perform just a piece of what they did today in front of us up to the actors the actors if they agree you are the first to give the permission if you don't give the permission we don't go on other God will present us one of her points there so he is invited and he takes part in the ceremony and Larissa will also present a Greek text from Antigone in modern Greek she presents the Thebes Tasimon modern Greek and another great actress she presents the same text with Larissa in us in Greek so we have what we did here today in the closing ceremony and maybe maybe that just an idea proposal to present the full production of Antigone and the festival would be glad to collaborate and to participate in a project like that the chapter you got you are the supervisor of this workshop talk to you thank you very much for these suggestions thank you I have one final just a final question because we are speaking about translation you can't finish such a panel without referring to translators and I'm referring to Kuzmarov and our friend from Netherlands and whoever owns it how do you regard the translation of the translation? I read Useless play I loved the play because the play speaks about the strength of a young lady in the 19th century and she tries to convince this baby's father and for this reason I made the translation so I can I ask you when you translate an ancient Greek tragedy what is your purpose? whom do you address what is your final purpose? that's a very difficult question first of all I only speak two loyalties the first loyalty is to the actors the second loyalty is towards the ancient text because I'm the one who is mediated between the ancient text and the modern performance and this is immediately a fight from the very first word and it continues until the very last and then it depends very much on what you want to render when I try to translate the tragedy musicality is the utmost important thing so I try to read the meters I try to feel what it is to change what is when the chorus enters there's a song and the rhythm in the lyrics is going from it's very changing and for me the most important thing is to find some way in the Dutch to get the same kind of rhythm and to get a feeling that words are not only words but these words are words for dancing for choreography to transpose that into Dutch my director cannot work with it in a way at least that he could if he had all these different meters my composer has more material if I'm able to give that than just rendering the words as they are do your personal views political social ethical and so on to interpolate your translation work in this respect as a translator I often be involved in selecting the play that we are going to do and the selection of the titles yes, that's been very important for all the plays that we did during the translation it's very difficult at least for me to think in political terms although I think unconsciously you will always do this but it's not the most important thing this is something that comes out when you start working the most difficult thing maybe for the translator is you can start working on text you make an agreement with the director and everybody who is going to work with it you finish your text and then the rehearsal process starts during that process many decisions are made that were not made when we started so I can try to make a very musical translation and then we decide in between we will have an American composer working with the Dutch tech and he says I cannot work with the Dutch words so please give me a minute and then my work it's gone in a way I mean it's not gone but for that purpose it's not there for different dimensions the chapter for itself I would like to thank everybody who participated in this panel and all of you who endured so long this long good morning and we are you meet in the meeting at the pay to club there is mega on music for the closing ceremony where every one will be presented the words the performance the performance by the Brazilian yes yes yes it happens here after the lunch after the lunch there is a Brazilian performance here whoever wants to see at four is at four that shows at eight at mega on music we discuss and you come at mega with your actors and now we have a family photo all together we have a family photo you come you come professional