 ALOHA, and welcome to Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. I'm Keeley Akina, and I'm delighted today to have a good friend of mine of many years, Representative Gene Ward, a member of the House of Representatives in the state of Hawaii. And with that said, I need to give you this disclaimer. Although I'm a trustee in the Office of Hawaiian Affairs and Gene is a legislator, the views that we express today will be expressly our own and will not represent the government or any agency whatsoever. And with that said, we could probably say whatever we want. And I think you'll find it very interesting. Gene Ward has a very big heart, a very big heart for the people who inhabited these islands before many others came, the Native Hawaiians. And one of the most important resources for Native Hawaiians happens to be the Hawaiian homelands. Unfortunately, and it's about 100-year history, the administration of the Hawaiian homelands has had a checkered past. We've built some wonderful homes for people to live on the land, yet at the same time we have a long waiting list of Hawaiians who have not been able to move on to the land. I'm going to ask Gene about that, and our focus will be what's going on and what can be the solution. So please welcome to the program today Representative Gene Ward. Gene, welcome to the program. Good to have you. With pleasure being with you. Always. You know, you've got such a wonderful heart for so many things in Hawaii and so many people of Hawaii. Let me ask you this question. How did you get involved? How did you gain your concern for the Native Hawaiian homelands? I think it's a combination of hearing the lip service that on the floor of the house we would give to Hawaiian issues. And generally speaking, when it comes to cultural and social issues, we yield right away to the Hawaiians as the whole sculpture. But when it came to political and economic issues, it was like, wait, hold on, hold on, we're not really sure we're ready to deal with that. The Hawaiian homes is under that category. At least that's my observation. So you're saying that there really hasn't been the appropriate attention that the state legislature should give to economic and housing issues for Hawaiians. Gaili, if you look at every ethnic group that came to Hawaii, they're at the table, they've got the elbows on the table, they're economically, politically franchised. The Hawaiians that were first at the table have not got that positioning yet except for social, cultural, and protocol issues. This was one that I kept hearing, and it was one where it was where, well, what's really going on with Hawaiian homes? Well, now you point out that there has been a low interest or low focus on the part of the legislature. Some may ask actually, why should the legislature be involved? Because it's the law. It's the law. In 1921, the Congress passed the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act. Yes. In 1921, gave 203,000 acres. That's right. But as expediently as possible, resettled the Hawaiians who just 20 years, 30 years prior to that had lost the kingdom. So this was a chance or an ability to rehabilitate or to put the Hawaiians back on the land where in the beginning all the whole land was. That's a very interesting word, rehabilitate. Yeah, I don't like the word actually. But you understand it though, because your own personal background has been in international development work. Peace Corps and UN and other things. That's right. Peace Corps and so forth. Yeah. And then we may think today, isn't it? Well, it meant to put them on the land. It meant to give them economic. That's right. Even as I'm reminded by Robin Danner, mercantile acumen is also, or training is also in the act. So you've got both bringing people back to what we call the Aina, living on the land, which is such an important concept for Native Hawaiians. And an aspect of it by which they can make money, a mercantile aspect. Exactly. You want to explain that. For small businesses. Maybe I should note that George Kanahele and I founded the Hawai'i Entrepreneurship Training and Development Institute. Well, now that's wonderful. And it's worth pausing for a moment to tell people who George was. He's written a beautiful book. The Hawaiian Sense of Place, Kukunaka. He was 10 feet away from me while he was writing Kukunaka. I was doing my PhD on Hawaiians in business. So this sense of the Hawaiian and the Hawaiian Sense of Place, Kanahele was there. We were training Hawaiians, Maoris, Chamorros. I went to Africa. We trained Eskimos and Inuits in Alaska. So we got a sense of who are the people who are traditionally non-entrepreneur and what they needed to stand tall, Kukunaka, and to do things which otherwise they had been told that they couldn't do. Well, let me pull out from what you said a couple of strains that I think are important. One is that a purpose of the Native Hawaiian homeland, the 203,000 original acres, was to provide homes, put Hawaiians back on the land. Here's the land. Right. But another purpose has to do with entrepreneurship. You know, we rarely think of that. We think of it. It's totally neglected. Explain that. Totally neglected, meaning that, hey, they can't even do the homes or the lots issue. So doing the mercantile, which is probably a higher order of sophisticated training, that they're eventually coming to it. And Robin Danner and his herd groups, the Shah, is attempting to do that. But it's in small increments. The point is, after 100 years, here's the bottom line, Kay Lee. After 100 years, there have been 9,700 homesteads. There are 27,000 Native Hawaiians on the land. We're 97,000. No, 9,700 in 97 years. All right. That's the amount of homesteads on 203,000 acres of land, most of which is empty. But there are 27,000 applicants on the wait list, 44,000 applications. So after 100 years, they've averaged about 100 a year, which means, and this is the bottom line, in the year 2288, all the Hawaiians on the wait list will get a home. Let's back up and see those numbers. It's too shocking. It's staggering. I mean, you're saying that there are, on the waiting list, 27,000 Hawaiians. And at the current pace in which homes... If you average the last 97 years... They'll get their homes by what year? 2288. 2288. Now, are you going to be around in 2288? Well, I won't be. But you'll be running for office. Every two years. Oh, you said we're not... So the people on the waiting list, in other words, unless they happen to be living into their 200s and 300 years of age, are actually going to die on the waiting list. And they happen. Thousands die. And the reality is there has been as many dying on the wait list as have been placed on the wait list. Okay. Now, here's the tragedy, I think. It's not just that these Native Hawaiians have been unable to come into their own and get the land and get their home. It's that those resources have been there. The land and its productive value, financially, has been there for 100 years. 203,000 acres have been there. But the political will and the amount of money to develop them, put the infrastructure, has been really stingily denied, or without any preference for where the state budget gives most of its money, it has not been in the Department of Fine Homelands. In fact, the only way that they've leveraged more money for the Department of Fine Homelands, for the homesteaders, i.e. Mr. Nelson and his colleagues, they had to go to court almost 15 years ago, was it 2007, about nine years ago, to actually leverage what now in the Castanetti decision is that the 1978 Constitution says there should be sufficient funding for the Hawaiian homelands, which is at $28 million per year, just to keep the lights on, keep the staffing up to speed, et cetera. That has been pushed back by an appeal from my colleagues in the Legislature, the Speaker of the House, President of the Senate, and the Governor, who said, no, wait a minute, no, you guys don't deserve that amount of money. The political will, Kay Lee, has been lacking. That's one of the states in the ground. Let's switch gears. Let's get out of political will and just go to business will. A tale of two trusts, so to speak. Yeah, this is broken promises. There's broken trust, and this is... We'll talk about that in a minute. We've got the Hawaiian homelands trust, which is public, belongs to the government. But we have parallel to that, the Kamehameha Schools Bishop Estate, which has been run privately. And apparently, for the last century or so, Kamehameha Schools Bishop Estate has understood the financial value of their land and has become one of the wealthiest institutions on the planet, able to provide... Literally on the planet, literally. That's right. And yet, the number one problem, according to leadership at the Hawaiian homelands, is their lack of cash. Would you... Why is it that the land has not been seen as an opportunity for financial productivity? Do you remember Gavin Dawes wrote the book Land and Power? Land and Power in Hawaii, the Dawes and Cooper. Yeah, Dawes and Cooper. They said there's a direct correlation between land ownership and power in Hawaii, except with the Department of Hawaiian Homelands, it's almost a reverse correlation. They are land rich, cash poor. They, like Kamehameha Schools, have... Like Kamehameha Schools, prior to the leasehold and getting with Takabuke, a lot of the money monetized, a lot of the land monetized, the land that is now in the hands of DHHL is just sitting there. That has not been entrepreneurially perceived as a resource. And it's something where, in the study that we did with 18 experts, all the living past directors, we interviewed. And those interviews said there are some things that need to be done. And part of it is, get a little bit more entrepreneurial to leverage the asset, which is 203,000 acres strong. That seems to be a refrain quite a bit. In a moment, when we come back from a break, we'll talk a little bit about the working group you've convened and the conversation around this whole issue called broken promises. I'd love to tell our viewers a little more about that. But first, let me just echo what you said, that it's the absence of political will and the absence of entrepreneurial thinking that has let all of this land just lay fallow, if you will, for a century when it could have provided the needs to house all of the Hawaiians who need housing. That's remarkable. That's one of the findings of the study and the wisdom of the 18 that we've interviewed. Well, we'll be right back in a moment. My guest today is Representative Gene Ward. We're talking about a very important issue for all people in the state of Hawaii, the Hawaiian homelands. Don't go away. This is Think Tech of Hawaii's Hawaii Together. We'll be right back after this. When I was growing up, I was among the one in six American kids who struggled with hunger and hungry mornings make tired days, grumpy days, kind of days, but with the power of breakfast, the kids in your neighborhood can think big and be more. When we're not hungry for breakfast, we're hungry for more, more ideas, more dreams, more fun. When kids aren't hungry for breakfast, they can be hungry for more. Go to hungarees.org and lend your time or your voice to make breakfast happen for kids in your neighborhood. Welcome back to Hawaii Together on the Think Tech of Hawaii broadcast network. I'm Kili Akeena, and my guest today is Gene Ward. And we're talking about the Hawaiian homelands. Let's get right back into our conversation. Gene has a wealth of knowledge about this. Gene, what was the vision of Prince Kuhio, Hawaii's delegate to Congress back in the 1920s, who was instrumental in establishing the Hawaiian homelands and the federal act that was involved in it? He had a vision for his people. He had a vision of not in a reparation, but a real resettling a kingdom after having been lost and so many homeless people, people without land, people without a franchise. So he said, if you got 132nd Hawaiian, you should qualify for the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. Now, his vision was 130 seconds since there was a blood quantum that leads us into a controversial issue because the Hawaiian homelands settled on a different figure and that was 50%. It was a horse trade in the Congress. This is back in 1921, when probably very few people even knew or visited Hawaii, except they knew there was probably some military strategic location, no advantages. But the others had said, no, there should be 100%. So as Aztender, who's written the forward to this study, said, well, they... With a difference. There you go. Typical of political and horse trading examples. And yet he's created quite an interesting situation today, whereas families that qualify for native Hawaiian homelands, whose children intermarry outside of the Hawaiian race may end up not having the blood quantum needed to perpetuate the wealth and the passing on of the home. And that could create a long-term problem that would actually disenfranchise homeowners. Exactly. And it's interesting you call them homeowners because there's still also an issue, not only of the blood quantum, but you have a lease. You don't really own it yet. Absolutely. But there should be, and this is one of the things that your colleague Peter Apo of Ohio said. So this is another set of problems. And that is that the homes actually are built on land owned by the Hawaiian homelands and not by the home owner. The trust ownership is actually in the Congress, so we can't do anything without a mother may I to Congress. So a kind of business man, how likely is it that a family is going to build generational wealth on leasehold property rather than be simple? I mean, everybody has learned that fee simple is the key to generational wealth. The American dream is owning a house, not renting a house, not having a lease of a house, but it's that vision. And right now, Kay Lee, you know, and a lot of people who are watching this know that the highest population of the homeless are Hawaiians. That is an anathema. That is a shame. That's embarrassment. Now this is one of the programs that could be able to fill that gap to get enough of the Hawaiian land utilized for homes and it's not being happening. And by the way, this is not just the Hawaiian issue. It's many non-Hawaiians who read this and say, what do you mean you got 100 years? You got 27,000 people in the wait list. You got 23,000 acres. And you can't do it until 2288. What's wrong with you guys? So everybody is shot by this. We've shadowed a handful of problems. The fact that we lack the funding in order to build. And then the political will is as. They don't have the political will. We're not using the entrepreneurial power of this land to the extent we could. And for those who actually have lots, they've got to be concerned about the blood quantum and passing it on to their next generation. And even as they have these homes, since they're on leasehold property, they may have some financing issues in terms of being able to get banks and traditional lenders to lend to them for whatever purpose. That has traditionally been a problem. It's less and less the case, but it's where the ownership still, all the ownership is vested in the state and the nation. And that's something that needs to be discussed. But the first thing that needs to be done is to get the distribution of the lots and the housing going. And that's really been a big problem because the infrastructure, they said, is so, so costly. But there are different ways of doing things entrepreneurially and leveraging those things. Absolutely. And they have not used that leverage. Jean, you and I have public hats. You're a legislator. I'm a trustee of OHUB. But we're here today just in our private capacity as individuals talking. You and I have had deep concerns about solving this problem. And so you've done something that I really commend and that is you've called many of us together into a conversation, a working group, if you will. And I thank you for including me in your interview process. But would you tell our viewers a little bit about this broken promises, this movement you've started. You've created a film. You've brought some people together. You've done a public presentation. What is broken promises and what is its purpose? It's basically the findings of the last 18 months of interviewing 18 people who ran or built or are knowledgeable experts of the department of Hawaiian homelands. They have suggested, and I gave them anonymous quotations, to what should be done, why it should be done and how it should be done in order to speed up or otherwise fulfill the act that Prince Coheal promised through that act of Congress in 1921. Do you think they'd mind if you'd named off some of the names that are involved in the Congress? Not at all. Oswald Stender has written the forward of this. Peter Apo is one of the spokesperson in the 26-minute video. Ray Soon is a former director of the department. Right now, Joby Masagatani is the present director. Bill Ayla, the deputy director was interviewed. Micah Kani, former lingual director. Momi Kazamero, Jim Dannemiller, Robin Danner, Rob Ayopa, Walter Temes, Kalani Park, also former director, a Stanford car. We wanted to get insights on how you leverage federal programs and building. Craig Watasi, a builder. Peter Savio, just a wealth of ideas and if anybody does watch the video, the 26-minute one, you'll see some really good insights from Peter Savio. Kaulani Sodaro, Kayli Yakina is there and then lastly, Kali Watson. These are the people who know by experience, not by theoretical application, what's going on with the department? What I'm excited about is that the conversation is starting to expand. You've got people from industry, government, housing, social services, native Hawaiian experts coming together for a common problem. Let me ask you this question. Why should people in Hawaii, all people in Hawaii, whether they have native Hawaiian blood or not, care about the Hawaiian homeland? Is this just an issue for one ethnic group in a corner or is this an issue that is something that should permeate our own political thought processes? It's a stewardship. Let me give that answer to a question that I'm always at. Warden, you're a haulegai, you're in Waikai. Why are you doing this? What motivates you? And I want to be very clear. I don't have a dog in the race. I don't have a political agenda. I don't have a Hawaiian constituency in my district. And I go back to where I cite John Kennedy when he said, we're in the villages, the Peace Corps when he established, he said, we're in the villages of the world helping the poor, not because the Russians are there, not because we're trying to get friends for America, because it's the right thing to do. Hili, it's the right thing to do, to do what otherwise was a hundred years, has to rehabilitate the Hawaiians who lost the kingdom, who were promised a home, who were promised a lease, who were promised the mercantile options, and we have not kept that promise. So broken promises is basically saying when Prince Kohio got this through the Congress, everybody thereafter has not treated it as a serious law that should be fulfilled. So fulfilling the promise is what we want to do. And Austin, I want to credit him for saying, war, don't make this another study that goes on the shelf and just gathers dusk. Do something about it. So on the back of this, after we give all the sources and all the solutions, it says, get involved. Hold that up a little higher there. Get involved, which means we have buildmorehawaiianhomesworkinggroup.com for people who want to get involved to get this distributed. Say that one more time. Buildmorehawaiianhomesworkinggroup. So you just buildmorehawaiianhomesworkinggroup.org. .org. And then you'll find all the information there. And then there's my disclaimer, there's why is there such a thing as the study they can download this study and then they can download the video. And from there, they can become involved because a lot of people, once they find out what's going on, they say, come on guys, what are you doing? Well, we were talking a little bit earlier about the vision of Prince Coquillo. And one of the things that inspired him was his understanding of what took place in the United States across the American continent. And what he saw was vast numbers of people acquiring fee simple real estate. Yeah, the Homestead Act. That's right, the whole Homestead movement. Go West, young man. Yes. Free land. Take your wagon and find your post and build it. And he saw that that created something called generational wealth. One generation created wealth that they could pass on to the next generation and build upon and trade with and so forth. And he said, this is what makes Americans great. I want that for the native Hawaiians. I want them to have that fee simple land ownership and generational wealth. And so I commend what you're doing. Whether it's the piece of the puzzle of getting more people onto the Hawaiian homelands and reducing the waiting list or using that land to generate more income with which to empower people to have fee simple wealth. I think the possibilities, Gaely, are unlimited. I think we haven't talked about foreign investment or we haven't talked about putting huge solar farms on land that's just otherwise. And there's such diverse opportunities. You could have Hawaiians who practice traditional planting and growing of kalo and so forth close to the land or what many other Hawaiians prefer to do in an urban area live in a condominium close to jobs and so forth. The Boladrome is one of the areas. The Boladrome in downtown, not downtown, but Mo'ili-ili. Mo'ili-ili. The Boladrome is probably gonna be a high rise. Probably the first time ever that DHHL has ventured out of the single family home. So there are these great opportunities to make the land more useful. There's a lot of options. Peter Sopke has got so many different ways to get people in housing rent to purchase rentals and for older people, for younger people. It's amazing, but you gotta have an entrepreneurial flair and you gotta have people who think not only as loyal to the governor because this is all government appointees because there's a lot of politics that go in. If I just wanna keep you content on the side, I just appoint people who are not gonna rock the boat. But people who wanna really develop the land and get business orientation entrepreneurship, that's gotta come from the governor's office. And that's where the A team, this calls, the people said get the A team in there and you can change Hawaiian homes by the people who are running it. Leadership makes a difference. Who runs the Grassroots Institute makes a difference on how the Grassroots Institute goes. Thank you for your support. By the way, Gene, you spoke earlier of the fact that it was simply right. And if I might add just that we fulfill the promise we made in the Hawaiian homelands. But for a moment, just think of this. If we don't, if we continue not to fulfill those promises, what can the general public expect? What is the burden on the general public? Continue disenfranchisement of the host culture. Continue to yield right away with social and cultural and other Waikiki and entertainment, but not the substantive development politically and economically that every group that came to Hawaii got franchised and it's time to franchise the Hawaiian community economically and politically. And this is one of the things that's waiting there. It's a low-lying fruit with a political will and the funding that can be leveraged. There's part of the working group already going out and looking for funds to leverage to make this a reality. And as I said, it's not a Hawaiian issue. It's a multi-ethnic, a multi-generational issue for people to do something that they know is right. And I don't want to be goody two shoes, but when you know something is right, whether you're a believer in God or not God, doing the right thing is what this thing is calling for. You said earlier that there was a lack of political will. Ultimately, political will stems from the engagement of the public, the electorate. And that's been missing. Absolutely. Akeli, you're a Hawaiian and you're an office. There are not enough Hawaiians who have run for office. Let me be very frank. There have been not enough represented even the percentage of the population. And when some of the Hawaiians have come in, they've come and gone. And to get at the table, maybe that's one of the solutions. To get more Hawaiians to run for office. I know Robin Donner's group is trying to alert more people to the fact that you've got to become engaged because it's about votes and it's about the number of people and the political will that follows that. But the other thing is, and I've talked to Bill Isle about this. Bill, you got to get the homesteaders down to the Capitol, sit up in the gallery and show that this issue counts. He says, we're going to do that, but it's still evolving. So this calls for a charm offensive. I know some people don't like charm offensive, but to me it is where you've got to get your name and your reputation out to the state and you got to get at the federal level. The federal level of the Hawaiian Homes Commission is not exactly the highest in regards. And there's a lot to do in terms of getting the name out, getting the problem out, and then getting people to act on it. So if people want to get involved, build more Hawaiian Homes working group, sign up and we're going to have a meeting in the middle of August to see where we go from here. Well, you have a list of very engaged individuals with expertise who are part of the conversation. And one thing I want to point out is that you've mentioned names regardless of political platform, regardless of where they stand on their votes for OHA candidates, regardless on where they land in terms of nationhood and federal recognition. And I'm pointing this out because I want to commend you. You've found a way to make the conversation about the real issue at hand, putting Hawaiians on homes, not about anything else. And I think that's probably what's going to be needed in order to bring people together. It's interesting you would mention that because I forgot to mention, on July 9th was the release of this study and that was the 97th anniversary of the signing of the Prince Coheal Department of Hawaiian Homes Act. And at that meeting was Bumpy Kanahele. So very diverse. Very, very broad. Leon, you could make it. Engaged in politics and people who are opposed. The point was the single-minded purpose of this group is for Hawaiian homes. Very good. But if you come from a sovereignty perspective or TMT, that's not part of the issue, but it's part of the Hawaiian history and the cumulative sense of who Hawaiians are. When we reach the end of the program, will you close us with that website and before you give the name of the website again, I want to let our viewers know that there's a wonderful film that has been produced as well that they can view on the website. Broken promises is on the website. And it's only how long? 26 minutes. 26 minutes. So Gene, what's the website? I was gonna say, if you're a millennial, we got a six-minute one also. It's called buildmorehawaiianhomesworkinggroup.org. Buildmorehawaiianhomesworkinggroup.org. Thank you very much, Gene. Pleasure. Thank you for your interest and for those who are watching. My guest today has been Representative Gene Ward of the Hawaii State Legislature, talking about Hawaiian homelands. I'm Kili Iakina on Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast. Until next time, aloha.