 Welcome to the non-profit show and happy Friday. We are excited you're here. It's another episode of the non-profit show, another ask-and-answer, and that means that we have so much gratitude always, but especially on Fridays, to National University Fundraising Academy, because these people, the trainers, the representatives, they come and they spend their Fridays with us to really dive in deep into these conversations. So I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd CEO of the Raven Group, but most importantly, Jack Alotto is here, CFRE and trainer at Fundraising Academy, very involved in the sector. Again, if you joined us for our green room chatter, you were hearing a little bit about one of his lifetime mentors that he's getting to see this weekend, but Jack has so much investment into the sector. And I love, I mean, I love you, Jack, but I love also the commitment and dedication that you put into the CFRE certification because you are so dedicated to helping all individuals achieve that responsibility. So thank you. Thank you. And it's an honor for me to be on with the non-profit nerd. Nerd used to be a bad word when I was in high school, it was a bad word, but when it's on you, Jarrett, it's a compliment. Well, thank you. Yeah, and it's a compliment when I say it too, because you're right, I used to have this negative connotation and I'm like, no, no, it's a compliment. So we also want to compliment our presenting sponsors and extend our gratitude also to these friends of ours. So a shout out over to our besties at Bloomerang American Non-profit Academy, again, Fundraising Academy at National University where we've stolen Jack from today, non-profit thought leader, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. These companies day in, day out, they're here to support you, they're here to support your mission and to help you do more good. So to help you do more good, check them out because they really are amazing. We only play with amazing people. So everyone here is amazing. Speaking of, the latest and greatest is this amazing app. So you can, on your smartphone, here it is, on your smartphone, you can scan the QR code and upload the app. And so just a few hours after today's live conversation we're having right now in this very moment, you will get a notification that this show, this broadcast has been updated. And if you also stream us on broadcast or podcast, we're still there, so don't worry. You can find us on those platforms as well. Okay, my friend, Jack, are you ready? Yes, let's get going. Well, you know how this works. So I'm gonna read the question aloud and for our viewers and listeners, maybe this is your first time coming to us, but these questions come from you. And so you email us, you tweet us, you send us some messages on LinkedIn, there's so many ways you can send in your questions. We save them, we reserve your questions for every single weekday on Friday, hence the Friday ask and answer episode. So these come in from our viewers around the nation. So name withheld and LA wants to know. I am the development director of a successful mid-sized nonprofit in the Western US, hence the LA. I have been asked by a similar nonprofit in the East to consult on their fundraising efforts and their strategies. Is this a conflict of interest? Take it away, my friend. So here's the thing, I do not think it's a conflict of interest, but what I think is a more important thing for this organization is to have a code of conduct. If your organization, your board has developed policies about conflict of interest, about code of conduct, then you would look to those policies as a way to answer this question. However, in my opinion, I do not think it is a conflict of interest, but there are some things, some codes of conduct for consultants that I did find. So here's the one thing that I find, safeguard confidential information. For example, this organization in Los Angeles, you cannot share your donor information in a consultancy with any other organization unless you have the donor's permission. So that is the number one thing. If they think that you're gonna give them a consultancy and help them find donors from your own database, that's a no-no. The other thing that I think is really important, and Jared, you're a consultant, you know this, I'm a consultant, I know this. Don't accept a consultancy if you are not competent in providing the services. That's really important. A lot of consultants I see, they say, hey, oh, there's this RFP for a consultant shop. I need the money, I'm gonna go for it. For example, in my own life, I'm not an expert at plan giving. I would not be a consultant for an organization that needs somebody who really knows and understands plan giving. The second part of an ethical consideration for a consultancy that might help this question is don't advertise services you are not professionally competent in. And I see a lot of organizations, a lot of consultants that do that. So we wanna avoid those two breaches of ethics. And finally, as I said earlier, look in your own code of conflict of interest policies if you have them. And the other thing that I highly recommend, and I'm sure you'll agree with this, is to review the AFP code of ethics and professional standards. And some of those things operate with integrity whether you are working within an organization or you're providing consultant services to them. Have be transparent, be truthful, be trustworthy. All of those things are important in any relationship with any nonprofit. I don't know what I could add to this, Jack. That was phenomenal. Great. Yeah, all of it. And you're right. I always go back to the code of ethics from AFP. And I remember when I started my consultancy, really that was when I had so many organizations asking me, well, you can bring the big donors, right? And I'm like, no. And really talking about, yes, I'm very privy to a lot of information from a lot of different organizations. I've been in their donor database. I've talked about strategies for major gifts of some of their larger donors. I never take that information to another organization, right? And that is a big thing. So I love that you go back to the policy of the organization and then overall code of conduct. So I think that is fantastic. I also, and I know you do too, Jack, come from a place of transparency. So I would certainly share this with my supervisor, let them know that this has been a request. You know, when you use the word consult, I'm curious, if this is, you know, like, you're taking on a paid opportunity or if they're simply looking for a conversation. I think that's different. I was actually recently asked to have a conversation, not a paid consultant consultancy, to share how essentially the Benevon Breakfast works, Jack, right? Like how do you use fundraising breakfast to an organization that's never done one before. And so I'm simply going to have a conversation, 30 minutes, maybe 60 minutes, and give them the lowdown of here's how it works, but it's not a paid gig, right? And so I really do think, name with help, you know, looking at this from a standpoint of, is this a paid opportunity that they're asking you for or is it simply, you know, a collegial favor that they're asking? So all good insight from you, Jack. So thank you for sharing. You're welcome. Yeah, and we wish you the best. And, you know, I do think that the more we share with one another, we can learn from one another. So I'm all for sharing Intel, but not intellectual property. That's right. Absolutely. Well, hey, I love this name Tanner as I share, this is my son's name, but he does not live in Memphis. So Tanner and Memphis wants to know, we are looking into putting more funding towards internal professional development and training. How much per person should we dedicate to this and should it differ from department to department? I realize this is a broad question, but we really need some help with the first time investment. This is a great question, Tanner. Yeah, it is a great question. And you know, you know, in the green room where we're talking about some of our favorite mentors and some of our great favorite supervisors. And I think one of the characteristics of the supervisors who I had, who I really appreciate them mentoring me was when they said to me, Jared, Jack, I want you to give me as part of your annual review your professional development goals. Tell me what you want to do to grow professionally. It could be CFRE. It could be learning more about plan giving. It could be being great at an annual giving campaign. I think that the way to deal with this question is to ask your staff to give you their professional development goals. It might be plan giving, as I said, if it's finance and it doesn't have to be just in the fundraising department, let's say the financial department, ask those employees to give you their professional development goals. Then when you get all of those, if it's in social services, ask them. Maybe they want to get a new master's degree or something like that. So when, and if you really want to keep your employees, which is also something in this question, then give them the opportunity to grow professionally. I worked for some large organizations that had very rich budgets around learning about fundraising. Those organizations, I would absolutely avail myself to every training opportunity, even if it was just a webinar or going to an AFP webinar or some other webinar that's put out there or reading blogs or whatever it was. So if it's in finance, maybe they want to learn more about financial metrics, let them go to a professional development. Then once they give you their professional development plan, look at your budget and just determine where you want to spend that development, that professional development budget. Is it really important that an annual giving officer learn more about major gifts and put your money in there or getting their CFRE? One of the questions I get all the time is CAP, Chartered Advisor in Philanthropy. That's something that a lot of development professionals are getting right now, go for it. I say yes. Yeah, and I also say yes to being a lifelong learner because there's so much to learn. And I believe we're never done, right? We're constantly evolving, we're learning something new. What's the latest trend? How is technology changing what we do? There's so much. The other thing, shameless plug is the Fundraising Academy has a portal that you can go to, it's free. There's tons of information there, the nonprofit show, free tons of information there. And so I do think regardless of budget, and I love your answer, Jack, and when I'm in that position, I do always say what are your goals? Like where do you want to be? Who do you want to be when you grow up and how can I support you? And I come from it as a place that it's like, it also might mean that we're developing this person and they don't stay here. But for me, I see it as we're doing the best for the person, for the community, for the sector, for the nation and the globe at large. And so really like uplifting and empowering this person regardless of those attachments to the agency. But I will go back to, there's so many free resources out there, another shameless, I'm doing a webinar July 19th with fundraising academy. And so again, there's so much information out there. So I love your looking at this because I do think it absolutely needs to be a line item in the budget. You mentioned the nonprofit show. Yes, it's free. But here's what a development supervisor can do. Can say to Jack, Jack, yes, I'm gonna give you that time on Fridays to go to the nonprofit show or to go to that fundraising academy in July. And you're not gonna be disturbed. Don't worry about doing anything, just attend that. That's also part of professional development. Time, giving your employees the time to do those things. Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned that because that is something often overlooked. Yeah, okay. Well, I just got back from Chicago. So Bryce, I'm not sure if we met, but your question we're gonna answer right now is do you have any advice on what an annual pay raise would be for a C-suite nonprofit executive? We are thinking about a flat 3%, but we are also concerned that this amount won't help with our staff retention. Oh, pay raises, Jack, what are you saying? So the first thing I say is I do not like across the board pay raises. Okay. And I'll tell you why, and you may have a different opinion. Pay raises should be based on performance. They should be based. Some of your employees are going to outperform other employees and a 3% pay raise may not aid in employee retention if they feel that they have done above and beyond. Pay raises, in my opinion, should be based on job performance and performance should be based on their job descriptions and the goals that you and they and you or you and they have put together for that year. That's how I think you really, it's really, I just really don't like these across the board pay raises. It's great, it's very equal, it's egalitarian, but if you are an under performer and you know you're an under performer, you say, hey, I don't have to live up to anything. I want to get that 3% or if you're an over performer, you're going to say, why am I working so hard to achieve my goals when I am not being financially rewarded? So it's a double-edged sword. Yes, across the board may help with some employee retention, but I'll tell you what, I don't think across the board pay raises will help with others. The other thing is 3%, sorry guys, we have an inflation rate much higher than 3%. At least the last time I looked. Yeah, I know. So I don't really like the number even. So anyway, those are my opinions. I'd love to hear your opinion on this. Yeah, well, I'm going to give it to you, Jack. So I love hearing yours and I respect that. Recently I was working with a client and here's the thing, they grew from $1 million to $10 million, right? And a lot of that had to do with CARES Act funding and just really their mission was in the epicenter of like societal turmoil. So there was a lot of money coming to this organization. They were adding money to their infrastructure, their capacity, their retention, the culture, right, all of that. So what we did, and I was very privy to this and involved is we looked at the entire payroll and we said, okay, we can do up to 12% of a pay raise. Everyone will get 5%. Like that was the flat kind of like cost of living. Everyone will get 5%. Managers get to decide on that other 5% based off of performance. So someone could get our, sorry, up to that, let's say that 12%, right? So there's still a little bit more of a leeway. So someone could get that base five if they're not performing. Everyone gets that base five, but then you've got this other points, if you will. And so we really left that up to the supervisor of the team to say, okay, based off of their performance, I'm gonna give this person the whole shebang and they're getting all six, seven additional points, whatever. Some might be, I'm gonna give them two because there's still opportunity for improvement, right? But that was very much, we started at what is the equitable pay raise across the entire payroll. And then we did merit base, our performance base rather, above and beyond that. But here's the other thing I wanna mention. If you're doing like a 3% or a flat rate, the other thing you have to consider is compression. And so if one person is coming up at 3%, right? And then someone else, if you don't have much of a bandwidth, then you're really not changing the dynamics of the pay. And I have to be honest, even though you say and you ask people not to talk about pay, it's talked about, right? And then- Yeah, absolutely. It's talked about. And then it's also, I love the public knowledge, right? And that comes from a DEI lens. When we post a posting, a new job post, I affirmatively agree we have to post the hiring salary. And I actually, Jack, will not even share on LinkedIn or with anyone a job opportunity unless it has the pay range, right? Yeah, I agree. A lot to think about there and that you're right, kudos to you, Jack, for being the disruptor. 3%, it's cute, Bryce, but it's not gonna retain. And especially if you're concerned, right, about retaining your staff, you need to be concerned about that 3%. Well, I like your pay model better than the one I gave. I'm conceding that to you because it has that part, which I think is really important, incentivizing employees and telling supervisors they can incentivize their high-performing employees. That's good. Yeah, and it's giving them the ability, right? Like you can give them all 6%, 7% or you can give them somewhere in between. So I just learned that, so I'm happy to share. Great, thank you. Ooh, this is a double doozy. Name withheld, state withheld. Okay, some people within our state nonprofit association are thinking about setting up a subgroup of nonprofit marketing professionals to meet and exchange ideas every month or maybe quarterly. Oddly enough, this is causing quite a bit of drama within the state association. We don't want to take dues or anything like that, but are coming up against some bad feelings. No wonder this is name and state withheld, Jack. So state associated, this is a membership organization and memberships thrive and survive because it gives benefits to the members. So the first question I have, well, I have lots of questions like, why is this causing a drama? I have no idea. What's so, you know, I think it's great that a group of marketing professionals want to form a subgroup. You and I belong to one of the largest association, AFP. And AFP has many subgroups. How bad would it be if we didn't have LGBTQ plus subgroup or African-Americans in fundraising subgroup or Latin X subgroups? You know the thing about these subgroups? They educate us. They educate the wider association. So I'm not against a subgroup for me, but I think they have to look and see why is this causing such a drama or bad feelings? It's so, it would be so great for us to hear from a marketing subgroup. Let's say this association is a fundraising association. Marketing and fundraising are so related. I would like to, I can't think of any reason why we wouldn't allow them to have a subgroup. Yeah. Subgroups bring perspectives to the association that we might not have. I'm all for it as well. I don't know where the drama is coming from. I can only imagine, Jack, that perhaps, and I'm putting words in mouths, perhaps the drama is coming from the association wants to monetize the subgroup. But here's the thing. People will automatically gravitate towards people of like-mindedness, right? And so, I mean, we even talked about this, right? Like we talk offline, outside of this, even though we connected through the nonprofit show. I was a part of a grant writing subgroup that was a break-off of AFP, right? Ironically, you mentioned AFP. So I just think this will naturally happen, but here's where I want you to focus is when someone says, oh, how did you meet each other? You say, well, we were a part of X, Y, and Z Association, and then that's really gonna come back to the benefit of the association. So again, I can only imagine the drama is back to perhaps the monetization of a subgroup and maybe even having some controls, right? Of what that looks like. I just think like-minded people will connect with like-minded people. That's right. And if they wanna form a subgroup, let them do it. It's fine. I really don't know the drama. I really don't. And maybe- I would love to know. Yeah. Now, slide into our DMs and let us know the drama. Yeah, totally. We wanna know what that is, but yeah, I'm all for it. And I think people will certainly come together, converse, support one another, maybe even consult on similar ideas just as a previous question was about the West Coast, the East Coast. Like there's always, I think, to support each other, but hey, Jack, we did it. Another set of questions from our amazing viewers across, I'm gonna say the globe because let's be honest, this is expanding beyond the states, but Jack Alotto, CFRE and trainer at Fundraising Academy, so very grateful to have you here every single time that we get to have you. Again, thank you to Fundraising Academy at National University for having these Fridays and also to our other very supportive partners. So thank you to Bloomerang, also American Nonprofit Academy, back to Fundraising Academy at National University, where we just had Cultivate on June 1, and there will be another Cultivate next year. So stay tuned to that, make sure you get their information. Also thank you to Nonprofit Thought Leader, your part-time controller, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These companies, day in, day out, support us, but mostly they support you, all 1.8 million registered non-profits across the U.S. So it's really been a pleasure. Well, hey, it is Friday, Jack, and you've got some traveling to do. Yes, I do. And you know what I'm gonna do when I get off? I'm gonna get that app. I didn't really said it was live. I have my phone right here. What? And I'm gonna sign into that app because later today, I'm gonna be able to see this show. It's gonna pop up. It's gonna give you that notification. I love it because as our viewers know, there's some days that I'm not on. I was just traveling, as I mentioned, I know in Chicago and speaking at a conference and I still got those notifications. So make sure you definitely do that. So Jack, always a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. And to all of you that joined us live, thank you. If you're watching the recording, thank you as well. And as we end every single episode, we invite you to please stay well so you can do well and we'll see you back here next week. Have fun, Jack. Safe travels.