 It's gonna share the screen a little bit. While I'm doing this, I just want to thank the organizers of this series. I think it's really important to showcase the research of John's scholars. So far, the conversations have been great. And I'm just gonna say that I'm a huge fan of Allison. Like I'm a little bit of, I don't know, a fan a little bit. So I'm a little bit nervous too. Let me start by situating my conversation. I'm from Oaxaca, Juarez, which is a state at the south part of Mexico. And I'm sharing with you some of the amazing, amazing poets that I follow. So if we're gonna talk about justice through poetry, then we need to talk about all of the conversations that we have with each other. And in the sense, these three of them are really important. You can Google them, most of their work is very translated into English. So that's gonna be great. And then the second thing that I want to situate is the idea that we are constantly in a struggle. Right now in Mexico, at the federal level, we are actually fighting against federal law that is trying to bring back a lot of the ableist understandings of mental health. So that is also a shot out into the same, into conversations, academic conversations, there's political realities that we need to bring about, especially in relation to autism, because in 2015, when they general law on attention and protection of people with in the autistic spectrum pass, they didn't include any autistic person. So that's really important. But now the conversation is how are we gonna be included rather than can we be included, right? So I changed a little bit of the presentation. So now I'm gonna concentrate a little bit more on what autistic reparations might look like in the classroom. And I'm gonna show a little bit about how fictional international relations, it's important to try to create reparations and actually a good way to think about what in terms of theory and practice of the heart has been inflicted into autistic people. So to try to start the conversation, I'm gonna have to tell you a poem that I think is really important and you can write questions and think about that later. So the poem is the following. It's called, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I keep failing more. I'm sorry I'm smart but can't get out of bed. I'm sorry I fantasize about killing myself instead of doing homework. I'm sorry I don't go out. I'm sorry I don't understand people. I'm sorry I don't have any one day long good moments. I'm sorry I lied and I said I was okay. I'm sorry I'm so afraid of trying because I know I won't be able to make it. I'm sorry she killed herself. I'm sorry she has been my only friend. I'm sorry he died when I started to love him. I'm sorry he wasn't a girl. I'm sorry I didn't feel anything when my father died. I'm sorry I hated you because you couldn't protect me. I'm sorry I smiled, I'm gonna wait. I'm sorry I stopped saying what I truly think. I'm sorry I don't trust you anymore. I'm sorry I'm sick. I'm sorry there's nothing you can do. I'm sorry I can't reach my potential. I'm sorry I don't care anymore. I'm sorry I can't be a model for autistic kids. I'm sorry this is my life. I'm sorry this is my life. So I wrote this poem years ago when I was an international relations student, undergraduate student at a Mexican university. At the time I was crying and deciding whether I should just quit. This poem tells a story. Some of us mark my autism and working in IR prefer to live out of our academic narratives. To let our accomplishments speaks for themselves and for ourselves. For years we were terrified and some continue to be terrified to mention in public and more on print that we are autistic. This is the case because the socioeconomic ecosystems we move in and through can be and sadly have been forgiven and unaccommodated to mental and physical diversities. We are constantly negotiating university and world systems and funding of course that can and have shifted their position on autism from a commodifiable diversity mark or a challenge we were or we are able to conquest on our triumphs. And they have changed it to a personal flow that endanger us and those around us or that it is much more of a liability that cannot be accepted or hired. The way in this paragraph or in this introductory paragraph reflects the collective thinking I have had in common unity with people marked by autism in out and in relation to the sociological economies of IR. The poem was inspired by Islam poetry. This artistic model is a way of a system that I felt for the first time in English through YouTube videos especially a YouTube channel that I love that is especially bottom poetry. Later I understood that those videos were part of an international movement of spoken words organizing national and international presentation, workshops, laboratories, conferences, dogs and more. Islam poem is a combination of free prose, activism, theater, community, therapy and recreation. It is both an art form and a performance. It is designed to be shared in public usually in common unity and each delivery is mediated by theatrical enactments. I invite everyone to just take a photo of the poem and try to perform it out loud feeling all of the poetry gone through their bodies and then let the performance become due by then run away because of all of the message that it is in the poem. Maybe we can do that later on. What I'm gonna talk about today takes a poem as its departure because its content demonstrates that people marked by autism exists an army to assist in IR. At the same time, the verses and the enactments out loud by any one of you present and the one that I said by now show how poetry can be therapeutic to move people away from debilitating and just affects. And by doing so, poetry can help construct a different world of worlds. Then in the rest of the talk, I'm gonna argue that IR has a historical depth with students marked by autism that this historical depth entails epistemic and material harm for autistic people including the intellectual disregard for artistic questions and the lack of care for autistic disappearances and displacements. As an alternative to this step of a first, I'm gonna demonstrate how the field of fictional international relations offer a path for autistic reparations based on the creative writing of people marked by autism across borders. So in what follows, the plan is the following is just tell you a little bit about autism as a place for what politics then I'm gonna tell you a little bit about what is the heart interior practice of autism in IR and then mostly by showing you where to go if you want to learn deeper these things. Then I'm gonna introduce you to fictional international relations and I'm gonna tell you just one quick thing about the relation of fiction and imagination as a theory oriented approach to what autism can bring to international relations through critical disability studies and then maybe if I had the time read a little bit more. So autistic autism and international relations is the clearly connected across all of the main topics of the discipline. So think about how the state and sovereignty are embedded into autism is to think about all of the politics as the ones that I mentioned at the beginning that marked the connection between autism and the state and how the state has to operate. But for me it's really important is to think about how the state is right now constructed as a way to actually include people into every single step of the conversation. And I'm always worried and a little bit questioned by why is it that academia doesn't include them, right? So I put some of the references because I think it's really important to give visibility to the people in political science and international relations who are thinking about these ideas. I think political science has been doing a better job to understand autism as a place of politics as the location of politics because basically everything about autism is contested, right? So it sends the meaning to what does it entail like how has to be treated or mediated to all of the politics that go again around it. Dana Lee Baker and Trudy Estelle Nagel have been really good at demonstrating the role of individuals into the making of autistic politics in both Canada and the US. John Bidney in his book actually argued that autism was a place of politics. And we have a couple of books, a couple of papers and hopefully a book coming by Felipe Jaramillo-Riz about the importance of this disability for international human rights movement, frameworks. And then we have some work about the role of autistic, of disabled people on the UN Convention on the advice of people with disabilities just to mention some of the lines of thought that we can go in IR is an autism. Also it's related to international markets. There's a lot of work right now, really interesting work on the relation between disability in general and neoliberal politics. Here are some of the people who are thinking of those relations in international relations, thinking a lot about the relation of disability studies and development studies, disability relations of poverty and there's the colonial legacies that are embedded in the making of disability, disability and disability studies. And then there's the idea of how we can implement and if it's good or bad that we have all of these really neoliberal base and actually charge and colonial, we can say systems to deal with disability and I'm thinking all of these in relation to autism. So there's lines of research there just to think about a little bit about the relation. And because Ali is here, I have to think about international security a lot. And I think the one who has addressed autism specifically is James Wood in the amazing paper of Enable of Minutarism, making our connection between pre-cal disability studies and militarism and actually seeing how, for example, autistic people are really included in the state security framework through the creation of a special forces that are just for autistic people and that are related to quite one characterization of what autistic people might be in general, right? So just reducing what the diversity of autism can be to just someone who is ready to serve the military in my hands state. And then I put a lot of other references just so people know that there's a lot of people thinking about international security and disability and the possibilities of autism. Now I'm gonna concentrate a little bit more on what are the ones. Gladly, we have a paper already of a Stephen Mitchell Christian telling us a lot about autism in international relations. He mapped a lot of the uses of autism in international relations texts. And he argued that most of the uses that autism some have had in international relations have been ableist, meaning people use autism as a punchback to something that they thought that was wrong, right? And something that needed to be cured or something that needed to remain in a really compact category is regarding the huge diversity that autistic experiences can be. So I'm not gonna talk about all of this is epistechnical violence too much but I'm gonna concentrate a little bit more on the sociological economies of academic institutions. And here I will say that most of the thinking that I have in relation to these two things are in relation to the suicide of Wilmore. You can know a little bit about the story in this page and what I think is really important is how he mapped as a tenured professor where it's still the punch out and all of the misfitting categories that the discipline of international relations creates. And I think it's really important how that specific case has resonated with a lot of us in international relations. I put a couple of other references. Alison Hall has really great paper on the relation between the police, the university and disability. And I actually built a little bit on that paper in an upcoming chapter that I've talked a little bit about the military person, autism and international relations. And of course, these socio-colonomic frameworks are not the only experiences, right? And that's why I put also Patri to this Jackson was a really well-known scholar. He has his own take on autism and international relations and actually offers more nicer parts in international relations. So let me just end this theoretical discussion by showing you what fictional international relations is and how I see it can fit a really important contribution to reparations. So fictional international relations has many paths. I'm not gonna talk about the different takes on fictional and international, I'm just gonna mention one important intervention by Sunju Parkan. He argued that fictional IR recognized that the line between fact and fiction can be blurred, has been blurred. Or at least that fact, reality and fiction imagination are interrelated. This is a little bit of a different approach to some of the other approaches. For example, Elisabeth Dunfin argued that we have to think about fiction as already existing in all IR, which I think is really important to think about how fiction is already embedded on all of our experiences and a little bit of the images that I have been showing through the presentation tells you a little bit of the same story about how fictions, images and this blurred line between fact and fiction are actually in one or everyday practices already. And so one of the problems here, well, for Sunju, the main idea here was to introduce imagination as a really focal point to international relations and imagination was about feeling empty spaces. Right? And in this feeling of empty spaces, the problem or like the paradoxical position that advises is that if we know or think we know, well enough or too much, then there is nothing left for imagination to work with. We are thinking about this feeling, something. For me, what comes definition of imagination applies because its purpose of everything that I'm doing here is to fill out the lack of enough ideas and information in IR about how autistic characters and people without the behavior work outside of ableist narratives. I suggest that it is imaginative because the emphasis is not on the character's behavior but on the complexities of living as a character or as a person marked by autism within an ableist world. Contingencies can be shown really important, for example, in the poem because first of all, like I'm thinking about autism through a lot of different locations and boundaries, north and south, material and representation that are constrained, disabled to able, unabable narratives, love, hate, hopelessness and affections. In all of those descriptions, I actually chipped the narratives of how autism relate to one of and the other boundary. And the second way you can see this imaginative process, I think, is that the poem, for example, expands easy evaluations of what they could think it is for us to do about what teaching people marked by autism, raising a person without autism, being an autistic person, right? So it suspends a little bit about the idea of what is the good but also raises questions about how and with whom the decisions about what comes as good teaching, being, addressing are made within ableist settings and what ableism has been possible. And just to show that there's a lot of theoretical importance in this conversation, I'm just gonna mention one of the relations that I care a lot about, which is the relation between autism and imagination. Actually, this problem here that arises comes from mostly like a really ableist understanding of autism, that frankly, it questions the idea of the accessibility of fiction to all of the people that participate in international relations. Why is this the case? Because as James Sabaris has argued, autism is usually associated with a try of impairments in communication, imagination and social interaction, suggesting that reading literature, let alone writing it, will be a considerable challenge for autistic people. Similarly, I loan a broad argue that the prevalent view is that imagination and self-worthiness are impaired or even absent autistic people. Then pros and poetry written by people without the autistic spectrum call for new investigation, right? On the imagination embedded in those poems. It seems like to write about oneself without self-awareness will seem as an oxymoron. And another theory could be that the one of Bruce Mills claiming that understanding of imagination regularly undermines forms of creativity, of creativity that's typically associated with people marked by autism, such as the facility to discern the sometimes subtle and distinct features of this great image activity of experience and instead they will favor the capacity to move quickly to a more generalized or symbolic understanding, right? So this idea of creativity as really, really, really narrow can have difficulties for autistic people. Of course, this has been challenged. I'm putting here the responses of the same authors, right? So we have that this imagination can be shown in the censor and once you engage people with autism and in the autistic spectrum and with autistic traits, then you can see that for example, sensory engagements and just strong feelings can be present in the Navities and poetry of people with autism. That the comparisons between the autistic and non-comparable non-antistic poems just show that the idea that imagination and literary genius or activity is actually not supported by the evidence. We can see a lot of people doing great work. And like the necessity of taking seriously that this medical and social deficience theories of the mind because the analysis actually, like the empirical analysis actually show that those assumptions, processes and concepts through the experience of people in the spectrum have revealed that they remain incomplete or unaccommodated into the continuum of imaginative process and acts, right? So we have all of this ability work that actually puzzles both the possibility and the inclusivity of international, of a project of fictional international relations. But then we have all of the work that people within the spectrum have done through about creating their own definitions of imagination and creating their own political interests, their own political international relations, subjects, curiosities and questions, right? So this is like the example that because we are present and we are writing all of this thinking them, we actually challenge also in a different way. The idea that we cannot create anything imaginative or anything worth thinking about it as fictional. And I'm gonna stop there a little bit. Well, I'm just gonna have a little bit about, a little bit about the context of the poem. I still have time, I don't know. I can stop or- No, please go, you're good, you're good. So a little bit more, not like this. So I'm gonna go forward in time. Well, I survive. I stopped crying the night I wrote the poem. I managed to finish my degree. Now I am in a political science PhD program in the US with a big scholarship. I kept reading IR scholarship, yet I am tired and angry now. So let me reply to all of those people writing about autism in IR. I was a passing able kid in the classroom. Most of my teachers never noticed my red eyes for crying out all night. They did not question why I failed to deliver homework even though I was getting the best grades in all my previous work. My parents also did not. My parents also did not. Over time, you get tired of explaining and getting the same. You have to be tough. You have to understand that we are preparing you for the real world where you will not get accommodations. You will eventually understand that this system works because you have to generalize when you have any students with different strengths and interests and the classic answer. After a few years of education, you will be free and happy to pursue the research you actually cared about. All of those are lies. They're able people. I am a very tough. See how many of us are here now. See how I and those that are staying in universities do not scream in public anymore. I do not want accommodations. I do not want to present this world. Instead, I want to construct a world where differences and solidarities can be nurture. I am not even sure that the world you are thinking about exists anymore or have ever existed. I know you most follow certain norms but if we are challenging them, it is because they might not work for many if not all students. The reason you haven't noticed is that these norms make you feel good. It is weird how some people get so much pleasure from being labeled as a special. I guess being gifted because being an autistic person is not the same as being a gifted person for conforming with basis and sexist IR. I hate how professors good feelings sometimes translate into employing their power to make us invisible or label us as failures. Even if the same able system also loves the way some of us can be inventive, we can memorize faster, we can get the abstract and hard stuff easily. I know that we in all of these thinking is only me. But a lot of IR expects in universal language their opinions and they pass it as theory, so I think it's okay. I love theory by the way. What bothered me the most is how I know some tenured professors here in IR that struggle in similar ways. Some even recognize themselves as autistic people. I am surprised they have not done anything substantial to undermine ableism. Yet being perceived as an autistic person means I understand you. There are moments you cannot act even when you want to act. Sometimes your body does not respond, sometimes habits and the past are too much, but we need to act because our friends keep getting more there and because we are part of the problem by not being part of the solution. We should move from why we should care about autism in IR to how can we care about autism in IR. Repetition for clarity, for maybe for normative claims, for hope, fewer papers and more giving, giving time, giving grants, giving shelter, giving love. And now what? Well, let me end by saying when I started talking about this paper or about these ideas in public, I was constantly asked, why do you stay in IR? It sounds like an awful place to be. I always reply that there are always cracks in IR, openings here and there, brilliant scholarship that I cannot see elsewhere, works telling stories of connections across borders, across oppressions and across ways to say I love you. But really metaphorically, and I live in rooms for one or two days in many houses, I'm in a discipline, but I have never found at a colonial home. It's also true that when you don't have savings and you give too much, you're not with too little. We almost no room for academic movement. Now I'm hesitant, maybe. Maybe it is precisely that I'm, I am suicidal after all. Staying in IR is just another way of dying. I'm sorry, this is my bed. I'm gonna finish there. Thank you. Hi, this is Ali Howell speaking. After all, staying in IR is just another way of dying, quote Lulia's paper, which is exactly where you ended. In your presentation. And my God, we're true words ever written. After all, staying in IR is just another way of dying. So I interpreted these words, not as a kind of nihilism or defeatism. And even as they may express a kind of despair, I also read them as a kind of hail, an effort to accost IR or IR scholars into ways of fostering different kinds of life and solidarities, maybe. So per Hulio, we should move from why we should study autism in IR to how can we care about autism in IR. Now, this is a paper that I found to be really tense with resistance in the best sense of tension. And as I was reading it, this line from a poem kept going through my head. And I thought I would read it. I know that Hulio, you're grounded in different poetic traditions than this poem, but maybe it would connect. It's from the book, Sling Shot by Serae Jarrell-Johnson, who's a black autistic non-binary radical poet. And the poem is entitled, false on it embroidered with four local elements. And the line that was going through my head as I was reading your paper from this poem is as follows, and I'm not a poet, so you'll excuse my reading. I'm a full grown whatever the fuck, and I will devour any attempt to subdue me with monstrous animality. And of course, there's this double play on whether the monstrous animality is part of the attempt to subdue or the act of devouring, right? Hulio's paper is wonderfully undisciplined. And I mean undisciplined in the best sense. It's an expression of the refusal of discipline, both in terms of structure of knowledge and kind of material apparatus of social control. Of course, it's also totally untrue that it's undisciplined because writing requires disciplining at a minimum over our bodies, even on a good day. And the paper contributes to all kinds of disciplinary lines of inquiry, such as fictional IR and beyond. And also the paper looks to and is deeply grounded in and extremely well versed in alternate bodies of knowledge, especially emerging from critical disability studies that are disciplinary formations in their own right with its own dynamics and exclusions and so on. Now, many of us who are disabled or who experience ableism will have had at some point in some way to contend with being narrativized as brave. And those narratives are produced and then differently, of course, for queer crips, racialized crips and so on. And by emphasizing the resistant qualities of the paper, I worry that I risk replicating those kinds of encounters in a kind of intellectualized way. When I was reading the paper, I found myself having to check a persistent impulse to think of ways to discipline this paper so that it would find an easier route in the world, an easier route to publication. And after all, we and who know you as its author exist in material relations, that is hierarchies, political economies that are not abstract in which things like publication are a kind of currency. Still, my reading of this paper is that it isn't a paper that is asking for help or asking to be tamed, right? It's a paper that is demanding and contributing to making better communities. Communities of IR, communities of disability justice and autism activism that center queers and people of color and that think and act beyond the US. So, yes, it's animated by a refusal, but also, I think, and this is where the paper ends up by a profound hopefulness about other ways of being and doing within and beyond the academy and IR or of creating in Julio's words, IR with autistic people and autistic questions. So I was thinking about this paper in terms of the creative possibilities opened up both by the paper's resistant properties and its tensions with its investments in alternative futures of or beyond the discipline. So, here are some questions and, you know, do with them what you will. So my questions are how kind of like a question of how do you envisage your audience or their experience of reading your work? And I wonder how you navigate what I see as a kind of implicit aim of your work, which is not just to reach an audience, but to change that audience, which is an extremely ambitious aim, right? And what I mean here is not just like changing people's minds through like argument, like through this kind of like intellectualization, I guess, but a kind of working on the audience. And I'm wondering if I have that right. And if so, like, what does that mean about how you envisage your audience? I also wonder whether we might kind of use this session to translate some of those lines of inquiry into practical questions, questions like how do we navigate intellectual or institutional spaces that are hostile? How can disability justice inform our answers to those questions? And as Julio suggests, can an IR with autistic people and autistic questions be produced? Oh, in there, thank you very much. Thank you both. Yule, I guess we'll just give this opportunity for you to reflect and respond to Ali's reading and her comments or provocations to you. And then audience members, if you have any questions or comments, please do type in the question answer or raise your Zoom hand if you want to ask it live. But Yule, I'll pass the floor over to you now. Yes, great observations, Ali. I think one of the points in this paper is that I'm not innocent and I don't pretend to be, right? So I'm participating in the exploitation of autism in an academic setting and I know how powerful that might be, right? I also know how difficult has been to publish these kind of articles in IR. I have to have, like, I have to find the correct place to send it, like maybe chapters, book chapters are really easier than to publish in the academic journals. The academic journal process has been tiring, especially because I persist and maybe I'm only able to write this quirky fictional writing, right? Instead of the other work that I also think that is really important about sovereignty, international markets and international security that I also know about a lot and that I don't write, it seems to kind of write it. So in a sense, that's how I grab the paper and the second thing is that I don't think any autistic writing will do it, all right? And I have seen a lot of autistic people in IR that's also a tension that it is inside in the paper that have been writing really and the questionable claims about autism and how it has to be dealt with, right? So in a sense that it's also intention and I actually really love the question about how do you envision the audience because I actually know what is one of the purposes of these papers is about changing behaviors and actually emphasize the need to act and something that it is really hard and harder than just to act is to keep acting, right? It's like this humanitarian that we can go and take pictures and be happy for a day but how do you maintain a constant struggle, right? And therefore, because we need a constant struggle we need power and the type of power that we might need and the one that I am suggesting here is a power that comes from the building of communities, right? And this question of what are we powerful in, right? And not just how we are not powerful or how we lack power, we might be disabled, right? So in that sense, that's important and I have prepared readings from autistic people. So this is a really important book by Leah Lakshmi-Pietna Samarra Zinkha that is care work. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about what has happened in the responses to a lot of the writing that I have done. It is, I've noticed a ton of able activists will happily add ableism to the list of stuff they're against. You know, like the big sign in front of the club in my town that says, not racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism or to around the word disability justice in the list of justices in their manifesto but then nothing else changes. All they're organizing is run the same exact way with the 10 mile long marches, workshops that urge people to get out of their seats and moves and lack of inclusion of any disabled issues or organizing strategies. And of course, none of them think they're ableists. Kicking cripples down the street, they never do that. They're just totally clueless about what disability justice is or indeed what disability is and that is not bad. The problem is that they still silently believe that they'd rather die than be us. Think of disabled, sick or crazy people as flaky or inspirational, but also pathetic and gross. Don't know any disabled history and are still running. Shit, they say this exact same way that makes or forces most of us to stay home. And just to shift it to know what disability justice can be. She has this really amazing response. You wanna know how you'll know if you're doing disability justice? You'll know you're doing it because people will show up late. Someone will vomit, someone will have a panic attack and nothing will happen on time because the ramp is broken on the supposedly accessible building. You won't meet your benchmarks on time or ever. You won't be grateful to be included. We will want to set the agenda. And what our leadership looks like might include launching or crazy leaves, being not in public or needing to empty and also me back and being on by cutting all time, all the time. It is slow. It's people, even the most social justice minded able folks is there, add or get freaked out by. It looks like what you, it looks like what many mainstream able people have been taught to think of as failure. And that's disability justice. So I can take out some questions if they want, if not, I can also read for the artistic people. So it looks like we don't have, I think I for one, I'm just captivated by your ability to speak in such poetic ways that I think for, yeah, that it will release with me a very affective response that I'm just enjoying listening to you. And I suspect that the audience would be similar, but I am going to abuse my position as chair here while there's a bit of a lull in conversation. And I just wonder, I know you engage a lot in theory and you really enjoy theory. And specifically where you mentioned about dying and IR and I wonder if you like, to what extent do you engage with theorists around affect and affective theory and has that helped you navigate at all? Like I'm thinking of immediately of for Lance work of slow death, for example, to highlight, like Ali said, not necessarily just the structural violences and the impossibility of living in structures that were not designed for particular communities, but also illuminating hope, illuminating the ways in which we build communities otherwise. And I wonder if you've engaged with any of that sort of literature or connected with that sort of theory? Yes, I know. So about affect, I have always conflicted emotions about affect theory because of how rooted I am in activism and in material changes. And I think sometimes for me, the most interesting theories of emotions of affects of love, I have written a lot about love. It's rooted on the ideas of action and meaning to achieve also what aesthetics looks like. So for me, it's all about the beauty on social transformation. It's about the beauty of feeling that you have achieved a change of all of these really material things of even give food to people. And all of these material changes that I think sometimes is conflicted with some affect theories, not all of them. And I actually, I really rooted and I'm interested in all of the Chicanos writing, from Gloria and Saldura, Chevy Moraga, and all of the people from there about affect in different ways, but also in Latin America, Chiovangel Vero, Mac Magnus is a person that I follow closely, sometimes woman, Valeria Flores, and as I said, can check those papers, but my ideas are about affect in relation to the construction of social change. But I think it's really important to think about and also the bad emotions. I have written a lot about suicide. And actually the chapter that is gonna come out is about the relation mostly of suicide or autism. So there's other layers there on bad effects that are really important to address and in a sense, because I am writing about bad effects and actually writing that doesn't give any hope. In fact, the title of the book is the Vanity of Surviving and in a sense, and so that. Oh, it looks like, oh, well, you have a fan, you know, LB just said, thank you so very much for your presentation. So no questions yet that I can see. Yeah. Gosh, this is such an emotionally moving presentation and discussion that I'm so grateful for your generosity, both you and Ali for bringing such important conversation to the table and a lot for us to think through, a lot of important politics that are engaged or that you engage with you though. And I wanna thank you and encourage you to keep going and hopefully, I hope you consider FTGSA a warm community for you to continue to engage with these discussions and any publications that you come out, please do let us know. We'd love to promote that work as a section as well too. But, you know, for the final few minutes, I guess it's the presentation unless there's no questions. Again, you have lots of fans. Everyone's coming saying thank you so much for this conversation. Oh, Natalia has a question, I guess. She says, hi, thank you so much for this talk. I'm ASD, Mexican and also studying IR. I noticed you mentioned security studies which is also what I'm interested in. Can I ask how your perspective has been different from other scholars of security? Sorry to cancel and to write this question, no problem Natalie. Yeah, just asking you your perspectives on how they might be different on security. Well, I think, and this is quite a feminine response, right? I think my questions are different, right? So I just start by saying like, what are the security questions that people without this care about or might be, or what are the security questions that might be helpful and useful for autistic folks, right? So for example, and this is not especially about this but it's about trauma. And I have a piece about trauma and poetry that it is about the need that we have about healing and how we might be healing through community writing in poetry and I show there some poetry and how I built a community around that poem and through that poem that was important for me to actually craft. So in a sense, one of the difficulties was that for example, critical studies on security is that you're not a house published poetry or when I send the poems without any explanations but I sometimes like to do that. They said that it wasn't a security topic because nobody cared about what they were feminists in that sense might think about as a security threat perhaps or as a security issue of having to survive within a really dangerous world that translates into dangerous institutions that translate into dangerous living, right? So in a sense, the questions that I'm interested in are different but also I think the type of responses are also a little bit different. The type of responses that I give are really quite material in a sense and also really rooted in, I don't care for example and this might sound mean but I don't really care about changing the name of what I studied the politics of medicine as for example, I care about changing the politics of medicine, right? So in a sense, it is about this need of actual a material change. I love to connect to like, I love to connect with any artistic person in IR. Great, well, I want to take this time to again, thank you Lilo and thank you Ali for evoking such important conversation and helping create a space where we can have these important conversations and Lilo, please do share your work. It'd be great for us as a section to more broadly disseminate this semester section that person and beyond. And I look forward to seeing what else you're going to be publishing creative outlets or otherwise, it'd be great to see more of your work. So thank you again, Ali, for such a thoughtful and engaged reading of Lilo's work and thank you also to the audience for coming and being a part of this conversation and being a part of the series as well too. Before we go, I'm just going to put in the chat box there the link to the further seminars that we have up until December, we have a few more that are coming up in January, leading up to the ISA annual convention in Montreal. So please do stay tuned. And again, Lilo, I'll give the last leading words to you before we end this discussion. Well, before the last words is just thank you. Thank you for creating this space and thank you for this series. I think it's really very important all of the topics have been great and we'll continue to be great because I have read the schedule. But the last word will be that this is an ongoing conversation. So in my experience, these types of performances, these types of presentations always lead to more thinking and I love to receive late emails by people saying, this made me feel X. And it has been really great that people pick up in different ways the motivations that I'm bringing and I have received emails about cancer, about dealing with academia while being a mother and a lot of different writings and I always love to have these conversations so feel free to reach it and actually to continue the conversation and to act. Right? So after all, what I'm looking for in this scholarship is to actually change the positions of people in this and if you are an academic and you have the power of a classroom, I also love if you were to be interested in having a session in your classes about autism and what might be the possibilities of healing through creative writing. So just reach out to and we can find that too. I have many activities I'm anxious to think about. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ali. Thank you, Yolio. Thank you to your audience. Have a great afternoon, morning, evening, wherever in the world you might be. Great. Thank you.